Death Penalty

[SoonerAcesUp]

In favor of it or not? If yes, which type do you favor? Discuss.....

[StoopTroup]

Not.

Life without parole.

Unless they start a "Running Man" kind of show where the Victims Family is allowed to hunt them down. ;)

[85Sooner]

For! no sense spending 60K+ a year for someone who commits heinous crimes.

[jk the sooner fan]

for - lethal injection

[KABOOKIE]

For.

Method: Hammurabi's Law.

[mikeelikee]

I'm in favor of it. I supported it for SMU, and I think it should be applied to USC over the Reggie Bush scandal. :D

[StoopTroup]

It costs way more than that in Appeals while they wait on DR.

[SoonerAcesUp]

I'm in favor of it. I supported it for SMU, and I think it should be applied to USC over the Reggie Bush scandal. :D


I knew that was coming! :D

[Hamhock]

for, any method - in general

against the current system that takes 20 years. if there is doubt, give em life..if there are 2 credible witnesses, do it in 60 days.

[SoonerAcesUp]

for - lethal injection

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3212205

Should we care how many times they stuck him with the needle or how long it took him to die?

[SCOUT]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3212205

Should we care how many times they stuck him with the needle or how long it took him to die?

"He was put to death for beating and choking cellmate Jason Brewer, 27, in 2001 after they argued during a chess game. He had slammed Brewer's head onto the floor, stomped his throat and cut a piece from his orange prison suit to strangle him."

Umm... No.

[JohnnyMack]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3212205

Should we care how many times they stuck him with the needle or how long it took him to die?

Did he care how long it took his victim to die?

**** this guy.

[jk the sooner fan]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3212205

Should we care how many times they stuck him with the needle or how long it took him to die?

should we care that the last time my son had to have blood drawn, they stuck him 8 times looking for a vein?

[SoonerAcesUp]

"He was put to death for beating and choking cellmate Jason Brewer, 27, in 2001 after they argued during a chess game. He had slammed Brewer's head onto the floor, stomped his throat and cut a piece from his orange prison suit to strangle him."

Umm... No.

My thinking exactly!

[StoopTroup]

I heard Prison is rough.

I never thought you'd die from an arguement over a chess game though.

[C&CDean]

For. Medium caliber bullet behind the left ear. Like the Russkies do.

[imjebus]

As christians shouldn't you believe in forgiveness and redemption? And if you are pro-life how can you be for the death penalty. These are just some of my questions.

[jk the sooner fan]

As christians shouldn't you believe in forgiveness and redemption? And if you are pro-life how can you be for the death penalty. These are just some of my questions.

another one comparing an unborn fetus to a convicted murderer.......

[Hamhock]

As christians shouldn't you believe in forgiveness and redemption? And if you are pro-life how can you be for the death penalty. These are just some of my questions.

forgiveness and redemption are available from our Creator. this does not negate consequences for our actions.

killing an unborn baby and meting out lawful punishment for someone who has taken someone's life, not equal.

[C&CDean]

As christians shouldn't you believe in forgiveness and redemption? And if you are pro-life how can you be for the death penalty. These are just some of my questions.

Old and tired questions.

1. Forgiveness is not ours to give. Neither is redemption. If he's made his peace with God, it's all good.

2. Never lay that stupid "why is killing innocent babies any different than killing convicted murderers?" bull**** on me while you espouse the "butt ****ing another man is different than butt****ing a child" credo. Just sayin'.

The baby never asked to be conceived. The baby never did a thing to anyone. The murderer never asked to be conceived. The murderer did a terrible thing to someone and according to the law, must pay.

[imjebus]

I didn't say that killing a murderer and killing a child was the same. I said that as pro-life shouldn't you value ALL life. or stfu...

[StoopTroup]

Last weekend there was a Cricket in the back of the Church.

Instead of stomping it I collected it up and released it outside in one of the gardens.

I felt good after saving him from a stomping of the masses.

He didn't mean to hurt nobody...

[okiehawk]

For it, but I would like to put a little spin on it.I say bring back hangings &
beheadings,open them to the public & charge a general admission fee.Then
use the fee`s to put a little dent into the national debt.

[JohnnyMack]

I didn't say that killing a murderer and killing a child was the same. I said that as pro-life shouldn't you value ALL life. or stfu...

No. There's a difference.

[soonervegas]

I think what you are saying is that if we follow Jesus' teaching....both lives (Fetus and Murderer) should be valued. True. Even though as mere humans these concepts are worlds apart.

[jk the sooner fan]

or stfu...

you first

[Hamhock]

I think what you are saying is that if we follow Jesus' teaching....both lives (Fetus and Murderer) should be valued. True. Even though as mere humans these concepts are worlds apart.


tell me again where Jesus said the death penalty was wrong.

[SoonerAcesUp]

Why should we have any mercy on a convicted killer's life when they had none on their victim(s)?

[soonervegas]

tell me again where Jesus said the death penalty was wrong.

I think he did speak to turning the other cheek.

Note: Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying I am anti-death penalty. I am saying that if you take Jesus for what is exactly written on paper....it would imply he is NOT for the death penalty. Maybe I misread it though...

[Petro-Sooner]

linchem

[BU BEAR]

I didn't say that killing a murderer and killing a child was the same. I said that as pro-life shouldn't you value ALL life. or stfu...

Of course murder through abortion and capital punishment of a murderer is not the same thing.

A state in its capacity as the government uses the due process law: legal arrest, rights given, facts, defendant tried by a jury of peers and convicted of a capital crime, appeals process exhausted to restrain evil and punish those who commit evil and thus fulfills its primary role as government to protect innocent society.

An abortionist on the other hand sheds innocent blood 100% of the time. The child murdered gets no trial, no rights, no consideration and is executed in a way that would make most people with a conscience want to vomit.

Contrast the number of state sanctioned executions with the systematic destruction of over 40 million children through abortion since Roe vs. Wade, the rights and process given to accused/convicted and that not given to the unborn; and you conclusion that it is not the same thing is quite on target.

[JohnnyMack]

And Jesus said, "stfu". Amen.

[BU BEAR]

I think he did speak to turning the other cheek.

Note: Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying I am anti-death penalty. I am saying that if you take Jesus for what is exactly written on paper....it would imply he is NOT for the death penalty. Maybe I misread it though...

Perhaps you are confusing individual actions and responsibilities with the role of the government.

Since Jesus is God and the same God that spoke to Moses, you could say he wrote about the govenment sanctioning capital punishment for the violation of certain Levitical laws.

[Hamhock]

I think he did speak to turning the other cheek.



and you think that the context of this message applies to government law?

if someone kills my family member, i may "turn the other cheek" and not seek personal retribution. however, that does not mean the person doesn't face the consequences from the government authorities.

someone correct me if i'm wrong, but crimes aren't committed against individuals, but against the state? in other words, i don't have the right or legal authority to determine that the killer should not be punished.

[crawfish]

For.

Method: Hammurabi's Law.

Stone tablets crushing a man's skull? :D

[crawfish]

Jesus' sayings refer to individuals, not governments. I believe it would be wrong to seek the death penalty because of vengeance, anger or hatred; however, I do believe there are circumstances where to allow an individual to live after committing a certain crime would be harmful to society.

Jesus didn't spend his life arguing against the wrongness of the crucifixion of criminals by the Roman state, so I don't believe he'd argue against the death penalty today. He'd say "render unto Caesar" and focus on each individual's personal faith and actions.

[royalfan5]

Against. I don't feel the risk of executing one innocent person is worth it.

[sooner_born_1960]

I didn't say that killing a murderer and killing a child was the same. I said that as pro-life shouldn't you value ALL life. or stfu...
If it make you happy, I'm not pro-life.


I'm anit-abortion.

[StoopTroup]

Now that Tim McVeigh has been executed...

I personally don't feel any better about what happened.

I'd like to think more facts would have come to the surface exposing other people who were involved over the years of his incarceration.

Did he deserve to die?

Yes.

I'm just not for it.

[imjebus]

The bible says not to "kill" It doesn't say thou shalt not kill (except for murderers). Thats why I ask the question of christians believing in the death penalty.

[imjebus]

If it make you happy, I'm not pro-life.


I'm anit-abortion.

Cool, So am I...

I am also for the death penalty.

[soonervegas]

Let me state for the record that:

I am pro-life
I am also pro-death penalty.

I am just unsure if religiously I would be batting 100%. That is all.

I hope that clears up what I was trying to say.

[crawfish]

The bible says not to "kill" It doesn't say thou shalt not kill (except for murderers). Thats why I ask the question of christians believing in the death penalty.

The commandment actually says "thou shalt not murder" in the original language. If you read further you'll notice that state-sanctioned killing based on the law was obviously not included. :)

This is actually far more complicated than you give it credit for. I could go further, but I'll wager that you're really not interested anyway. :)

[imjebus]

Let me state for the record that:

I am pro-life
I am also pro-death penalty.

I am just unsure if religiously I would be batting 100%. That is all.

I hope that clears up what I was trying to say.


Do you see the contradiction in being pro-life and pro-death penalty. I realize they are 2 different things. But being pro-life shouldn't all life be valued. Shouldn't you be a member of PETA? ;)

[crawfish]

Do you see the contradiction in being pro-life and pro-death penalty. I realize they are 2 different things. But being pro-life shouldn't all life be valued. Shouldn't you be a member of PETA? ;)

Isn't there also a contradiction in being pro-choice and pro-gun-control?

You're speaking semantics, here.

[imjebus]

The commandment actually says "thou shalt not murder" in the original language. If you read further you'll notice that state-sanctioned killing based on the law was obviously not included. :)

This is actually far more complicated than you give it credit for. I could go further, but I'll wager that you're really not interested anyway. :)


So your saying the meaning of one of the comandments was lost in the translation of the bible?


And your wrong I really am interested.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

For - use any means available. My personal favorite is the firing squad.

Use the death penalty for heinous crimes, serial sexual abuse people and for any person killing an on-duty law enforcement person, could be convinced to include active duty armed forces people as well.

[soonervegas]

Do you see the contradiction in being pro-life and pro-death penalty. I realize they are 2 different things. But being pro-life shouldn't all life be valued. Shouldn't you be a member of PETA? ;)

Yes. I believe I alluded to that with: "I am just unsure if religiously I would be batting 100%. That is all."

[soonervegas]

So have have got abortion and death penalty going....can we add a dash of War in Iraq and Gay Marriage? Let's just hit all the hot button issues before the holiday weekend.

[Frozen Sooner]

From a philosophical standpoint, for.

From a practical standpoint, against.

[Okla-homey]

Opposed. Not on moral grounds, but because the sentence is arbitrarily applied based on factors such as the defendant's race and gender. It is also far more likely to result when the defendant lacks the means to afford decent private counsel and afford expensive forensic science work.

Until we figure that out, I say we need to suspend executions.

[Frozen Sooner]

Opposed. Not on moral grounds, but because the sentence is arbitrarily applied based on factors such as the defendant's race and gender. It is also far more likely to result when the defendant lacks the means to afford decent private counsel and afford expensive forensic science work.

Until we figure that out, I say we need to suspend executions.

Yeah. What he said.

[crawfish]

So your saying the meaning of one of the comandments was lost in the translation of the bible?


And your wrong I really am interested.

Not really. And, it was more of a cultural thing...the writers of the King James version knew the distinction, but that was lost as the language of the KJV became more archaic. Most modern translations use the proper term.

Translation is an ongoing pursuit, because the meaning of language is constantly changing. There are those who believe that the KJV is the only "proper" translation; however, I view that as more a personal failure than a corporate one. :)

Point being, even after that commandment there were many Deuteronomic laws that dictated the death penalty, so even without knowledge of the translation misunderstanding we should see a distinction. Jesus and the epistles altered our view of the law in many ways; mostly in faith as a personal responsibility, in contrast to the community-based law of the Jews.

It is completely consistent for a Christian to be against the taking of innocent life yet for the taking of a life deemed worthy of execution by the state. My opinion is that these are both items of "personal faith", and not required tenets of Christianity itself. One can justify or reject abortion or the death penalty on religious grounds.

[StoopTroup]

Opposed. Not on moral grounds, but because the sentence is arbitrarily applied based on factors such as the defendant's race and gender. It is also far more likely to result when the defendant lacks the means to afford decent private counsel and afford expensive forensic science work.

Until we figure that out, I say we need to suspend executions.


I'm guessing all of this will cost even more dough.

Another reason to stop the DP IMO...

Put them away FOREVER....let God give them the Sentence they deserve.

[soonerscuba]

This thread will end well.

[Okla-homey]

I'm guessing all of this will cost even more dough.

Another reason to stop the DP IMO...

Put them away FOREVER....let God give them the Sentence they deserve.

Yep, because there is no appeal possible once you're dead...and the good Lord knows exactly what happened far better than our comparitively pathetic ability to find facts.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Many states are figuring out ways to abolish the death penalty, mine just came up with an express lane

:texan:

[SoonerAcesUp]

What should we do about the problem of many prison systems being at near capacity? Just keep building more?

[soonervegas]

What should we do about the problem of many prison systems being at near capacity? Just keep building more?

I wonder what % are in there for drug related issues? Distribution or use.

[Frozen Sooner]

What should we do about the problem of many prison systems being at near capacity? Just keep building more?

Do you honestly think that the number of people in prison guilty of capital crimes is large enough to make any kind of difference in this?

Interesting that the freest country on the planet has the highest proportion of its people locked up of any industrialized nation.

[Okla-homey]

What should we do about the problem of many prison systems being at near capacity? Just keep building more?

IMHO, a great start would be to decriminalize illicit drug use.

[BU BEAR]

The bible says not to "kill" It doesn't say thou shalt not kill (except for murderers). Thats why I ask the question of christians believing in the death penalty.


Actually, the Hebrew word in the commandment is the term for murder or taking innocent life.

[SoonerAcesUp]

So do we lock too many people up for petty crimes?

[jk the sooner fan]

Opposed. Not on moral grounds, but because the sentence is arbitrarily applied based on factors such as the defendant's race and gender. It is also far more likely to result when the defendant lacks the means to afford decent private counsel and afford expensive forensic science work.

Until we figure that out, I say we need to suspend executions.

i dont have the actual stats to back it up, but perhaps the greater number of people finding themselves facing the death penalty are already in that population you're so worried about?

[soonervegas]

i dont have the actual stats to back it up, but perhaps the greater number of people finding themselves facing the death penalty are already in that population you're so worried about?

Poor and uneducated. I bet there is a direct correlation.

[leavingthezoo]

i killed a chocolate bunny once.

[Frozen Sooner]

i killed a chocolate bunny once.

You see the racism and oppression inherent in the system?

[Frozen Sooner]

To expound further on what I said earlier:

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a such thing as an unrehabilitable criminal who poses a clear threat to others. Such a person should be removed from society, and the most efficient way of doing so is to end their life. Such is the perogative of society and the duty of governance.

There is also no doubt in my mind that the death penalty as currently administered does a poor job of actually identifying unrehabilitable criminals and in fact is given as a sentence to men for whom reasonable doubt does, in fact, exist.

[jk the sooner fan]

i think prosecutors (in most cases) apply the death penalty to those cases which most incite the emotion of the general public....

[leavingthezoo]

You see the racism and oppression inherent in the system?

THERE WASN'T AN AVAILABLE WHITE CHOCOLATE BUNNY, ALRIGHT!?

:P

[royalfan5]

What should we do about the problem of many prison systems being at near capacity? Just keep building more?
We could quit locking folks up for drug possession. That would clear some space.

[StoopTroup]

If we quit picking up folks for drug possession...we'd have to survive on COPS re-runs.

[PhilTLL]

Given that I don't even believe in "God's ultimate judgment," and I do believe in the state following its own proscriptions ("don't kill people"), and that max/supermax prisons are nigh-inescapable fortresses, and that even the remote possibility exists that the state could be ending a life in error (which it has no more right to do than I), I don't know why we should bother with the death penalty other than to appeal to a notion that somehow it "sets things right". It's an unnecessary overreach of state power.

I even read the other day that Texas was considering making a second offense of sex abuse on a minor worthy of the death penalty. Why not make the FIRST horrific offense subject to life imprisonment, as it should be, and take your finger off the trigger for a moment? The notion sounds like a search for more ways to inflict the death penalty, and if that's justice's prerogative, it's gone off the rails somewhere.

For what it's worth, many Catholics dig the "pro-life = pro-life" stance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_life_ethic

[C&CDean]

You know what cracks me up? People worried about the state offing some allegedly "innocent" death row dude, but think putting an unborn fetus through a food processer is groovy.

[Frozen Sooner]

You know what cracks me up?

People who think that abortion is wrong, yet worship a God who aborts millions upon millions of fetuses a year.

[jk the sooner fan]

wow

[Mjcpr]

If colley hadn't ruined the fun with the popcorn smiley the other day, this is where I'd have posted it.

[C&CDean]

You know what cracks me up?

People who think that abortion is wrong, yet worship a God who aborts millions upon millions of fetuses a year.

Dude, that's seriously lame. God has never aborted a viable fetus.

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, you know, if we're going to be in the business of making offensively simplistic statements, I figure I should get in on the ground floor.

[C&CDean]

Well, you know, if we're going to be in the business of making offensively simplistic statements, I figure I should get in on the ground floor.

"offensively simplistic statements?" You shore got a purdy mouth.

Your statement was just stupid. Mine, not so much.

[Hamhock]

If colley hadn't ruined the fun with the popcorn smiley the other day, this is where I'd have posted it.


why, exactly, is there poop on your head?

[PhilTLL]

Dude, that's seriously lame. God has never aborted a viable fetus.

Really? No heretofore-healthy pregnancy has ended in miscarriage or stillbirth? Ever? Nobody's ever bled out during a bad c-section? I mean, clearly that isn't the will of the doctor, so I can only figure it's The Big G, and of course He Must Have Had His Reasons.

[C&CDean]

Really? No heretofore-healthy pregnancy has ended in miscarriage or stillbirth? Ever? Nobody's ever bled out during a bad c-section? I mean, clearly that isn't the will of the doctor, so I can only figure it's The Big G, and of course He Must Have Had His Reasons.

If the baby didn't live naturally, it wasn't viable. DOH.

[Hamhock]

has everyone in this thread seen my bobcat?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Wow,

This thread seems to be going the way of the "Shake the hand..." thread.

[Okla-homey]

i dont have the actual stats to back it up, but perhaps the greater number of people finding themselves facing the death penalty are already in that population you're so worried about?

All I know for sure is there are too many former death row inmates who have subsequently been exonerated by new evidence not available at the time of trial because they couldn't afford it. The state wields awesome power. Unchecked by a well-healed defendant who can afford a first-rate defense team, the state can too often have its way with people who may well have merely been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just since 1992, Barry Scheck's "Innocence Project" has completely exonerated 201 innocent people who collectively spent nearly 2,500 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. I fear that is just the tip of the iceberg and there are a staggering number of people now rotting in prison or on death row who didn't do the crimes for which they were convicted.

[Frozen Sooner]

"offensively simplistic statements?" You shore got a purdy mouth.

Your statement was just stupid. Mine, not so much.

No, YOU'RE the stupid-head.

[Okieflyer]

All for it! You murder. You should expect justice!
For the Christians...

Romans 13:4
For government is God's servant to you for Good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an avenger, that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.

So there shouldn't be any conflict between Pro-life and Pro death penalty. Two separate issues.

[Mjcpr]

No, YOU'RE the stupid-head.

I bet the well-thought-out thesis you had typed up and then decided against posting was way better than that.

:D

[Hamhock]

All I'm saying is that harvesting a bobcat with a bow and arrow is waaaay more of an accomplishment than getting lucky and having a little white ball (that doesn't have sharp claws and teeth) fall into a hole on the first try.

that's all I'm saying....

[Okla-homey]

All I'm saying is that harvesting a bobcat with a bow and arrow is waaaay more of an accomplishment than getting lucky and having a little white ball (that doesn't have sharp claws and teeth) fall into a hole on the first try.

that's all I'm saying....

That depends on the bow. If it was a stick bow, I agree. If it was one of them gyro-stabilized, new-fangled compound jobbies with a lazer sight, not so much. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

All I know for sure is there are too many former death row inmates who have subsequently been exonerated by new evidence not available at the time of trial because they couldn't afford it. The state wields awesome power. Unchecked by a well-healed defendant who can afford a first-rate defense team, the state can too often have its way with people who may well have merely been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just since 1992, Barry Scheck's "Innocence Project" has completely exonerated 201 innocent people who collectively spent nearly 2,500 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. I fear that is just the tip of the iceberg and there are a staggering number of people now rotting in prison or on death row who didn't do the crimes for which they were convicted.

i dont think the 201 innocent people exonerated were all on death row, in fact i think most were released from gen-pop prison, and thats a good thing.....the appeals process and the advance of DNA should further preclude the innocent from being put to death

but i think the numbers you rely on for your argument or logic are nowhere close to what you think they are

[royalfan5]

All I'm saying is that harvesting a bobcat with a bow and arrow is waaaay more of an accomplishment than getting lucky and having a little white ball (that doesn't have sharp claws and teeth) fall into a hole on the first try.

that's all I'm saying....Pfft. Let me know when you do it with your bare hands, otherwise color me unimpressed.

[Mjcpr]

Do bobcats purr?

[Frozen Sooner]

I bet the well-thought-out thesis you had typed up and then decided against posting was way better than that.

:D

No, not really.

[Hamhock]

you're all idiots.

[Frozen Sooner]

If the baby didn't live naturally, it wasn't viable. DOH.

Oh yeah? Well how viable is a fetus that's been put through a food processor?

OTSS!

[Hamhock]

Oh yeah? Well how viable is a fetus that's been put through a food processor?

OTSS!


depends on the recipe?

[Okieflyer]

Oh yeah? Well how viable is a fetus that's been put through a food processor?

OTSS!

Mike, you getting way outta hand!:mad:

I contacting a mod..e..rat...

....never mind.:O

[Frozen Sooner]

;)

My apologies if I've given offense. Please be aware that 99% of what I'm posting is done with a wink.

[leavingthezoo]

i put a chocolate bunny in a blender once.

[Frozen Sooner]

Was it viable?

[leavingthezoo]

not after i got done with it.

[Frozen Sooner]

MURDERER

[C&CDean]

All I know for sure is there are too many former death row inmates who have subsequently been exonerated by new evidence not available at the time of trial because they couldn't afford it. The state wields awesome power. Unchecked by a well-healed defendant who can afford a first-rate defense team, the state can too often have its way with people who may well have merely been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just since 1992, Barry Scheck's "Innocence Project" has completely exonerated 201 innocent people who collectively spent nearly 2,500 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. I fear that is just the tip of the iceberg and there are a staggering number of people now rotting in prison or on death row who didn't do the crimes for which they were convicted.

Meh. I always look at this kind of stuff through my own personal life experience.

Back in the day, there were many, many times I got away with ****. I can remember my mom going "Dean, you just wait til I tell your daddy." I'd spend the rest of the day in fear, and when dad came home he'd just quietly say "boy, don't let me catch you doing that." I was like the criminal who got away with it. Then, when I forgot to cut the bushes, or take out the trash, or fill the water jugs (we had an outside well), he'd whoop me to within an inch of my life. I thought "damn, I broke the glasses out of the neighbor's car and all you said was "don't let me catch you boy" and now I forgot to fill the water jugs and you give me a beat down of epic proportion?"

The punishment didn't fit that crime, but lord knows I deserved what I got for all the **** I got away with.