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View Full Version : UFC 71 - Chuck "The Ice Man" Liddell vs Quinton "Rampage" Jackson



KC//CRIMSON
5/21/2007, 12:49 PM
This report was taken from MMA Weekly. It's pretty much spot on. I think Rampage has a really good chance to win. It just depends on which Rampage shows up.:cool:



To say that either of these fighters has not improved is ridiculous, Chuck is better than he was, and Rampage is in a much better training situation than he was at the tail end of his time in Pride.

Relevant factors to consider for this fight that were a factor the first time:

Whether Chucks punches "hurt" Rampage or not, unchecked they can knock out pretty much anybody.

Chuck is a counterpuncher. Quinton may claim that Chucks shots don't hurt, but he sure made sure to not take any flush the first time they went at it. Page stayed in the pocket throughout the majority of the stand up with a fairly basic but smart strategy, Chuck takes a shot to give one so Rampage made sure to give and not take. What impressed me and continues to impress me about that fight was how Jackson never got greedy. He'd throw a solid jab and immediately pull his hands back into a protective stance, whether he thought it damaged Liddell or not (basically the exact opposite of Babalu).

Liddell may or may not have been physically hurt in that fight, it's never been officially confirmed. But there's no doubt about one thing: mentally he was not in the best spot. Dana had been over seeing his training and I have no doubt putting tremendous pressure on him to win the tournament. So not only did Chuck have the stress of his boss desperately wanting him to win, he knew his last two fights were less than perfect. Couture slowly dismantled him, and Overeem provided some serious problems for a couple minutes.

Knowing all of the above, one would have to assume that Liddell desperate for a title shot, possibly injured and fighting a battle that almost undoubtably felt just like the Couture fight only worse and in a different country had to be quickly mentally demoralizing. That coupled with a possible injury and a boss desperate for you to beat Wanderlei Silva makes Chucks loss seem less than surprising.

Rampage DESPERATELY wanted to fight Wanderlei, they were supposed to match up for a title shot when Pride announced the GP. Rampage had the exact opposite pressures going into the fight than Liddell did. His boss didn't care if he won or lost. He was considered an underdog against Liddell or Silva. He was very comfortable fighting in Japan, and the crowd loved him. He was coming off a very hard fought victory over a game Murilo Bustamente, an oppenent Jackson knew about for all of two days before their fight. Jackson couldn't have been more perfectly set with his me against the world attitude to desperately want to finish the fight with Liddell.

Relevant factors to consider for this fight:

Chuck has not lost since the last time these two guys fought, he has also avenged every loss he's ever had in mma besides this one.

Rampage has lost, and he's also been knocked out three times. Yes three and no I'm not counting the loss to Shogun. Rampage was knocked out twice by Wanderlei, and also briefly by Ricardo Arona. Although Jackson did go on to win that fight, he was knocked out in a way that no North American ref (and I'm guessing all but one Asian ref) would miss. Granted that fight did take place in an era of Pride were some serious brutality was required to stop a fight (See Kharitonov/Schilt and Wanderlei/Kondo).

In addition to those KO losses Rampage also was brutalized by Mauricio Rua, won a very shady decision to the older Rua brother, and squeaked by Yoon Dong Sik and Matt Lindland.
Lets break those down.

In his fight with Ninja, both men looked fairly bad. Quinton was coming off of a very dissapointing and serious KO to Silva, and was apparently in the middle of some real training issues. In any case this fight sucked, Jackson was so unhappy with his "win", he attempted to give his victory trophy to Ninja.

Shogun broke Quintons ribs in their fight at Total Elimination yet despite repeated requests from Jackson to his corner, they refused to throw in the towel or set up a doctors stoppage making for a very nice addition to Shoguns record and a really ugly loss on Rampages'.

The win over Sik was another rotten fight, and only made Sik look decent against his much bigger opponent. The Lindland fight is hard to judge because very few people look good against him, but the split decision is easy to argue for either man. Jacksons most recent fight was an ok showing against Marvin Eastmen that he won by KO.

Jackson is in a new camp now and seems happy there. However he did want to wait fior this fight.

Chuck has beaten Couture twice, Tito twice, Babalu, Jeremy Horn, and Vernon White in the time since their last meeting. Not quite the caliber of fighters that Rampage has fought (on the high end, certainly better on the low end) since then but that's irrelevant, Chuck won all of his fights and looked good doing it. Rampage lost several of his and even some of his victories were sloppy/arguable.

For Rampage to win he must stay in the pocket and not get greedy. Chuck has proven in both of his "recent" losses that he will and can take a tremendous amount of damage before he can be put on his back. Jackson needs to take his time, circle to the left and touch Liddell with hands at every available opportunity.

For Chuck to win either Rampage needs to forget the gameplan he had in their first fight, or Chuck needs to make this his fight just like he has against both of the men who have beaten him and what he is certainly planning on doing here. We'll see.

Chuck vs Rampage - Grand Prix '03 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoMzRLGukxA

stonecoldsoonerfan
5/21/2007, 01:06 PM
i think that the momentum and the incentive is with liddell. if i had to choose between the two, i would definitely choose chuckycheese.

HskrGrl
5/21/2007, 01:06 PM
Rampage, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD knock Chuck the **** out!!!!!!!!


That is all.

HskrGrl
5/21/2007, 01:07 PM
Also, I will be in a cabin without tv at the Grand Tetons when the fight is on. I am sad about this. :(

Fugue
5/21/2007, 01:23 PM
Also, I will be in a cabin without tv at the Grand Tetons when the fight is on. I am sad about this. :(

Sad? :eek: Have you ever been there? It's teh win.

JohnnyMack
5/21/2007, 01:48 PM
<raises hand>

What's the difference between UFC and Pride?

Thanks, I'll take your answer off the air.

JohnnyMack
5/21/2007, 01:49 PM
Also, I will be in a cabin without tv at the Grand Tetons when the fight is on. I am sad about this. :(

I would sell me left nut to spend some time up at the Grand Tetons without a TV or a Cell phone.

HskrGrl
5/21/2007, 01:58 PM
I am really excited to be at the Grand Tetons! I've never been there before and supposably our cabin is right on the lake. I'm just sad that I will miss the fight. Originally we were going to be at a hotel that night so we were still going to get to see the fight. I'll just have to pay $20 and watch the replay on PPV on Monday night when we finally get to our new home.

HskrGrl
5/21/2007, 02:01 PM
I would sell me left nut to spend some time up at the Grand Tetons without a TV or a Cell phone.

Do you think you could pull $500 for it off ebay? That's about how much it would cost to reserve the same cabin as ours for 3 nights. I've heard you can usually get closer to $700 for a right one, though. That should be enough extra to cover the cost of gas.

usmc-sooner
5/23/2007, 08:59 AM
I'm a Liddell fan but their last fight Jackson beat him to the bunch, had more speed, same if not equal power, and could take Chuck down. I'm sure Chuck's improved but the more I watch the more I lean towards a younger Rampage. However Rampage has taken more of a beating on his body the last few years. Yet Chuck shows up for some interview drunk/high not to long ago. I'll pull for Chuck, I like both but the younger Rampage may have his day again.

KC//CRIMSON
5/23/2007, 12:43 PM
For those of you who are not real familiar with Rampage. He's known in the MMA world as a great fighter, a good guy out of the ring, and people just really like the guy. He's also known to be one of the most colorful and funny guys in MMA.


Classic Rampage Quotes::D

On what impresses him most about Chuck:

"His Mohawk. I'm impressed with how he keeps his Mohawk looking like that every time I see him. I'm really impressed with that. I wonder if he cuts it himself, if he has a barber or does he have a stencil thing he puts on his head so he doesn't mess it up? Chuck keeps that Mohawk looking like that all the time."

On being the victor at the end of the fight:
"I like to see my hand raised at the end of the night. I like when the ref raises my hand. That's why I shave my armpits like the professionals wrestlers. I like to see my arm raised."

On getting into brawls:

"I want to avoid every punch you throw at me, but I'm not scared to get hit. But I'm not just going to let everybody hit me. What the hell's wrong with you?"

"My style is 'whoop that *ss'".

Quadros: Rampage, where do you see yourself in 2 years?
Rampage: Well, right now I'm 23, so in two years, I see myself 25.

Interviewer: Chuck said in his pre-fight interview it's gonna be a first round knockout. What do you have to say about that?
Rampage: First round knockout? If he plans on getting knocked out in the first round that's his business.

Quadros: Rampage, what adivce would you give to Herring right now?
Rampage: He needs to pull his damn draws up!

Quadros: How do you plan on beating Sakuraba
Rampage: "I am bringn' my chain in the ring, Sakuraba tapped out four gracies, of course I'm bringn' my chain wit me"

"Time for some black on black crime":D

Mauro: Quinton, your thoughts on this fight.
Rampage: My thoughts are... I hope Wanderlei wins and wins fast, cuz i gotta go take a crap!"

"Ima gonna whoops Chucks *ss"

''(im onna ) KNOCK A MUTHA ****UH OUT!""----
and ''... you know what i can do, with that MONEY?'-- you DON'T KNOW what i can do with that MONEY. .. - I can do SOME THANGS, with that MONEY!''....

Quadros: What have you been doing since your last fight with Wanderlei?
Rampage: A lot, I beat 3 games.

Interviewer: Rampage, did you always thought you were gonna be a fighter?
Rampage: Hell no, I thought I was gonna be a porn star!

"When I win the pride belt, I'm going to do everything with the pride belt. when I'm playing video games, I will play with the Pride belt. when I'm taking a sh*t, I am gonna take it with the Pride belt. when I'm f*cking, Im gonna f*ck with the Pride belt"

Interviewer: You have a fan club?
Rampage: Yep. I just checked it today and I saw that your grandma signed up.
Interviewer: Oh really?
Rampage: Hell yeah. She told me she love how I be slammin folks.

"Have you ever had yo *ss whooped by a black man?... It HURTS!"

"Sex is like Pringles. Once you pop, you just can't stop."

Stephen: Was that like fighting an octopus?
Rampage: Man that was like fighting a big *ss smelly skunk! Matt you need to take a shower man!

Rampage commenting on the size of Tito's head
“They made a Tito bobblehead but that *hit wouldn’t bobble, it would just fall down to one side and stay there.”

usmc-sooner
5/26/2007, 11:50 PM
Chuck got Knocked the F out. KC//Crimson was right the Pride is much better than the UFC.

and when I say much I mean light years, Henderson will beat Jackson

KC//CRIMSON
5/27/2007, 01:22 AM
Guess the right Rampage showed up. Wish it had gone a few more rounds, but hey, a win is a win. This will do a lot for his psyche after those losses to Wandy and Shogun.

Rampage and Hendo will be a good fight. Ever so slight advantage to Hendo, but we shall see. Hendo doesn't normally fight at 205.

I read that Shogun has agreed to two fights in the UFC. This is the guy you need to watch out for, total complete package. The guy is sheer awesomeness.:cool:

StoopTroup
5/27/2007, 10:59 AM
Heh.


Interviewer: Rampage, did you always thought you were gonna be a fighter?
Rampage: Hell no, I thought I was gonna be a porn star!

Sooner_Bob
5/27/2007, 05:08 PM
I just watched it and freakin' Chuck swung wide and if Rampage didn't catch him with a very sweet right. It looked kinda like when Chuck caught Randy.

I really don't see how anyone could say that this fight proves anything other than Rampage has Chuck's number. Doesn't necessarily mean that Pride is superior to UFC by any sorts. Definitely not light years.

Look, I'm a huge MMA fan and love the fact that we're finally getting to see Pride and UFC guys go head-to-head. But come on, a large chunk of fighters for both promotions have fought in the UFC and then moved over to Pride and have been successful (i.e. Mark Coleman, Don Frye, Kevin Randleman, Dan Henderson, Gary Goodrich, etc.).

Each promotion has (or had) different rules and each will hopefully continue to develop some of the best MMA fighters in the world.

Hatfield
5/27/2007, 05:42 PM
it was also funny when Houston +400 underdog Alexander knocked glass joe out in 48 seconds

Widescreen
5/27/2007, 06:19 PM
Is the fight posted online anywhere? It was on youtube last night but got pulled.

Rhino
5/27/2007, 09:24 PM
it was also funny when Houston +400 underdog Alexander knocked glass joe out in 48 seconds I wouldn't call a guy that took a wicked overhand, about 20 punches, two monsterous uppercuts and a couple knees before getting knocked out "Glass Joe".

usmc-sooner
5/27/2007, 09:35 PM
I just watched it and freakin' Chuck swung wide and if Rampage didn't catch him with a very sweet right. It looked kinda like when Chuck caught Randy.

I really don't see how anyone could say that this fight proves anything other than Rampage has Chuck's number. Doesn't necessarily mean that Pride is superior to UFC by any sorts. Definitely not light years.

Look, I'm a huge MMA fan and love the fact that we're finally getting to see Pride and UFC guys go head-to-head. But come on, a large chunk of fighters for both promotions have fought in the UFC and then moved over to Pride and have been successful (i.e. Mark Coleman, Don Frye, Kevin Randleman, Dan Henderson, Gary Goodrich, etc.).

Each promotion has (or had) different rules and each will hopefully continue to develop some of the best MMA fighters in the world.

I used to feel the same way as you Bob but Pride had Jackson, Wandy, Henderson, and Shogun all would probably have taken the light heavyweight title from Chuck in the last 3 or 4 years.

usmc-sooner
5/27/2007, 09:38 PM
Does anyone have any idea why Chuck doesn't kick more? He had that beautiful knockout of Bobalu Sobral and he was a DI wrestler you'd think he could incorporate a little more ground and pound.

Oh well I guess he hasn't really struggled for win with his striking style. Liddell and The Natural are still my two favorites.

Soonerus
5/27/2007, 09:44 PM
Do you think Liddell will try to "come back" ???

usmc-sooner
5/27/2007, 09:49 PM
He'll probably want to go out a winner so I think he'll fight again, maybe not against Jackson however. I think Jackson is a nightmare for Chuck where guys who can beat Jackson I think Chuck may have a better shot at. Rampage has faster hands than Chuck.

Soonerus
5/27/2007, 09:51 PM
Last night was no fight, it was a beating that was mercifully stopped by the official...

Sooner_Bob
5/28/2007, 09:25 AM
I used to feel the same way as you Bob but Pride had Jackson, Wandy, Henderson, and Shogun all would probably have taken the light heavyweight title from Chuck in the last 3 or 4 years.


I'm not saying one is supremely better than the other (I don't recall ever taking sides) . . . I am saying that you can't make that judgement after one fight.

Last month it was all the UFC freaks claiming superiority after CroCop got beat in a worse knock out than Chuck. This month it's Pride fans doing the same thing.

Tito has beaten Wandy. Chuck has beaten Tito. Rampage laid out Chuck. Wandy killed Rampage. Everybody thinks Wandy would spank Chuck. Hollywood laid Wandy out. Now we'll get to see Rampage and Hollywood.

usmc-sooner
5/28/2007, 11:17 AM
I'm not saying one is supremely better than the other (I don't recall ever taking sides) . . . I am saying that you can't make that judgement after one fight.

Last month it was all the UFC freaks claiming superiority after CroCop got beat in a worse knock out than Chuck. This month it's Pride fans doing the same thing.

Tito has beaten Wandy. Chuck has beaten Tito. Rampage laid out Chuck. Wandy killed Rampage. Everybody thinks Wandy would spank Chuck. Hollywood laid Wandy out. Now we'll get to see Rampage and Hollywood.

I think Chuck matches up better with Wandy than he does Rampage. I was one of those UFC freaks but after watching both for a while now I just think the Pride is deeper with talent than the UFC was not that it matters any more since they are now the same.

I think that Houston Anderson might be a real contender, especially if he were younger. He was lifting Jardine with those punches.

Sooner_Bob
5/28/2007, 11:38 AM
Sokoudjou (http://www.sokoudjou.com/) could probably take it to anyone in his weight class . . . I wonder if he'll be showing up on a UFC card anytime soon.

tbl
5/28/2007, 01:11 PM
Who the freak cares about Pride vs. UFC??? Can we not just have MMA fight fans??? I've never heard anybody talking about the IBO, WBO, WBA divisions in boxing... Gimme a break. Both groups have amazing talents and there is no clear cut dominant force, especially considering that the UFC is absorbing most of the Pride guys. It won't be long till they work out a deal and it's all one conglomerate... which is the way it should be. I just don't get the whole argument about which is better...

That said, Chuck got rocked. I like Rampage, so I didn't mind it at all.

How about the bugeater getting a dominant knockout on Jardine? That was brutal...

usmc-sooner
5/28/2007, 01:15 PM
Who the freak cares about Pride vs. UFC??? Can we not just have MMA fight fans??? I've never heard anybody talking about the IBO, WBO, WBA divisions in boxing... Gimme a break. Both groups have amazing talents and there is no clear cut dominant force, especially considering that the UFC is absorbing most of the Pride guys. It won't be long till they work out a deal and it's all one conglomerate... which is the way it should be. I just don't get the whole argument about which is better...

That said, Chuck got rocked. I like Rampage, so I didn't mind it at all.

How about the bugeater getting a dominant knockout on Jardine? That was brutal...

that's really all I was trying to say, now that they are combining we'll start to see better champions. I thought the Pride was a little deeper at Chuck's weight. They are combined now so it doesn't matter. Chuck is still my favorite MMA well him and the Natural.

KC//CRIMSON
5/28/2007, 08:23 PM
I just watched it and freakin' Chuck swung wide and if Rampage didn't catch him with a very sweet right. It looked kinda like when Chuck caught Randy.

I really don't see how anyone could say that this fight proves anything other than Rampage has Chuck's number. Doesn't necessarily mean that Pride is superior to UFC by any sorts. Definitely not light years.

Look, I'm a huge MMA fan and love the fact that we're finally getting to see Pride and UFC guys go head-to-head. But come on, a large chunk of fighters for both promotions have fought in the UFC and then moved over to Pride and have been successful (i.e. Mark Coleman, Don Frye, Kevin Randleman, Dan Henderson, Gary Goodrich, etc.).

Each promotion has (or had) different rules and each will hopefully continue to develop some of the best MMA fighters in the world.


Chuck shouldn't have thrown that body shot, it was a huge risk and he paid for it. Rampage is a lot faster than he looks on film.

I understand what you're saying. However, there are two Pride fighters that are now champions. And I would think that more than likely when Big Nog and Cro Cop get back in action, there will be three champions from Pride. I don't see RC or GG remaining champion for very long.

Having said that, I would like to see an OWGP at the end of the year. But, like you say they're all in the same pond now, so will see how it pans out.:cool:

Melo
5/28/2007, 08:27 PM
I was pretty disappointed with the fight. Im not a Rampage fan, but I've been a pretty big fan of the Iceman for a pretty long while, and I still like the guy, still like watching him fight.

I STILL LOVE YOU, CHUCK!

:rolleyes:

tbl
5/28/2007, 09:06 PM
I was pretty disappointed with the fight. Im not a Rampage fan, but I've been a pretty big fan of the Iceman for a pretty long while, and I still like the guy, still like watching him fight.

I STILL LOVE YOU, CHUCK!

:rolleyes:
I really don't understand why you watch these fights... Every thread that is about a certain event, you always act extremely unimpressed. Perhaps there should be swords allowed?

Widescreen
5/28/2007, 09:07 PM
The replay has been re-posted to youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_zWXmrdUBM

Melo
5/28/2007, 09:10 PM
I really don't understand why you watch these fights... Every thread that is about a certain event, you always act extremely unimpressed. Perhaps there should be swords allowed?

Perhaps. Or tighter pants. :D

No, but seriously... I've been watching these fights, plus a lot of the fight nights, for quite a bit of time now... after awhile, its difficult to be excited about EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of them. I enjoy watching them, I have a good time, etc, I just dont get pumped about ALL of them. There are the couple fighters that I really enjoy watching, and it SUCKS when they suck.

tbl
5/28/2007, 09:11 PM
YOU suck... ;)

Melo
5/28/2007, 09:16 PM
YOU suck... ;)

Probably! Thats why I come here so much - to spend time talking to other sucky people!

;)

KC//CRIMSON
5/28/2007, 09:24 PM
Sokoudjou (http://www.sokoudjou.com/) could probably take it to anyone in his weight class . . . I wonder if he'll be showing up on a UFC card anytime soon.


Way too soon to tell. He's only got about 90 seconds of fight time.;)