This country will be done..

[Jerk]

if this passes. millions of instant citizens for the politicians to buy votes from through handouts. Vote for me! I'll take from the gringo and give to you!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P68N7G0&show_article=1

Deal Struck on Immigration Bill
May 17 01:05 PM US/Eastern
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - A bipartisan group of senators reached agreement with the White House Thursday on an immigration overhaul to grant quick legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S. and fortify the border against new ones.

One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said he expects President Bush to endorse it.

The deal came after weeks of painstaking closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans together with Bush's Cabinet officers to produce a highly complex measure that carries heavy political consequences.

It set the stage for what promises to be a bruising battle next week in the Senate on one of Bush's top non-war priorities.

This is a breaking news update. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP)—Republican and Democratic senators huddled Thursday trying to close in on an immigration compromise to grant quick legal status to millions of undocumented immigrants while fortifying U.S. borders against new ones.

A group of lawmakers that has been haggling over the terms of agreement for weeks were reviewing language negotiated Wednesday night in efforts to nail down a deal. Among the final sticking points was a stubborn dispute over how much family ties count toward green cards under a new "point system." The plan prioritizes advanced skills and education levels for future immigrants.

Two of the lead negotiators, Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., booked time for Thursday afternoon in the Senate's radio-TV gallery for an announcement.

But Kennedy said some were hanging back as an agreement inched closer.

"There are just some people who don't want to close on this. There comes a time in every negotiation where people have to close," Kennedy said. "Today is it."

Kennedy said Thursday was likely the last chance for a compromise before senators scattered for a three-day weekend.

"The immigration reform legislation has come to a boiling point," Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said just before going into Thursday's meeting. "We've tried to come to a consensus and I think we are very, very close, but every time we grasp it, it eludes a final resolution."

If no deal emerged, Senate Democrats were to vote Monday evening to bring up an immigration measure that passed last year over the objections of most Republicans, who have said they will block it. That would be a highly partisan start to the immigration debate, which divides the two parties and exposes fissures within their ranks.

Even with a bipartisan agreement, the immigration debate could easily devolve into a free-for-all in the unruly Senate.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has said he wants to complete a bill before Memorial Day, and President Bush says he wants to sign one by summer's end.

[Soonerus]

WTH, do you do...I don't know the answer....

[sanantoniosooner]

WTH, do you do...I don't know the answer....
He drives a big rig.

[Jerk]

He drives a big rig.

I'm doing my part to make the earf a warmer place.

[Soonerus]

It is a real problem , we have become a victim of ourselves....

[Jerk]

A long time ago, a car with two people ran off a bridge in Massachussettes, and the wrong damned person died.

[soonerscuba]

Teddy ain't gonna vote 51 times and sign it into law. I wouldn't wish for his death because of this.

[SoonerGirl06]

WTH, do you do...I don't know the answer....


You write or call your Senators and Representatives and tell them that if they vote for this bill, you'll vote them out of office.

I shake my head in disgust over this. If this bill passes, the dynamics and landscape of America will be forever changed.

Congress has sold out on America... all in the name of the almighty vote.

[Soonerus]

You write or call your Senators and Representatives and tell them that if they vote for this bill, you'll vote them out of office.

I shake my head in disgust over this. If this bill passes, the dynamics and landscape of America will be forever changed.

Congress has sold out on America... all in the name of the almighty vote.

Secret: America has already changed...

[StoopTroup]

If this has any of the "Admit you broke the Law and go to the back of the line after paying a penalty"...

Things won't change much...

They'll have to start paying taxes and pay their fines ect...

They also have to learn english and the deal I heard was that they would be admitting to a felony...so I'm not sure they could vote or carry a gun even once they become a citizen...

Enforcement will be the hardest part of it all....

We can't enforce the borders...so I don't have much faith we'll be able to enforce the new laws either.....

I also heard employers who get caught using illegals after this would be fined heavily and even do jail time...

We'll see how it all pans out....

I'm not going to get excited just yet....

They all are playing so many games in DC...

It's sickening...

I wonder if we'll get dual citizenship out of it...maybe even triple if Canada wants to play along....lol.

[SoonerGirl06]

Secret: America has already changed...

Even more if this passes.

Start learning Spanish amigo cause that's who's going to be in the majority if/when this bill goes through.

[Soonerus]

It's just a huge mess based in our amalgamationist theory on society...

[King Crimson]

as long as upper end leisure industries, like higher end restaurants, need cheap labor, don't expect any real sharp "reform". except the occasional symbolic, arbitrary "ICE" raid to placate the drooling idiots.

and when you are paying 10 bucks a pound for ground beef because of the "new" labor costs, we'll see.

[Soonerus]

as long as upper end leisure industries, like higher end restaurants, need cheap labor, don't expect any real sharp "reform". except the occasional symbolic, arbitrary "ICE" raid to placate the drooling idiots.

and when you are paying 10 bucks a pound for ground beef because of the "new" labor costs, we'll see.

That is not my point but I respect your analysis....

[olevetonahill]

Teddy ain't gonna vote 51 times and sign it into law. I wouldn't wish for his death because of this.
Can I just hope he dies cause hes a stoopid prick ?:cool:

[King Crimson]

That is not my point but I respect your analysis....

it's not analysis. it's empirical fact. yank the illegals out of the meat cutting, construction and food service industry and it's a labor crisis.

economy is not about accidents. there is a reason these people are here....and it ain't anchor babies. it's about needs in *our* economy.

[Soonerus]

it's not analysis. it's empirical fact. yank the illegals out of the meat cutting, construction and food service industry and it's a labor crisis.

economy is not about accidents. there is a reason these people are here....and it ain't anchor babies. it's about needs in *our* economy.

I agree totally with you but the base problem is with the amalgamates in our society and our fore-fathers...

[King Crimson]

are you or are you not an amalgamate?

[SteelClip49]

I am sorry if this sounds insensitive, but I say just spray a bunch of RAID over the entire country of Mexico. The country serves no purpose. The people cause more trouble than good.

[olevetonahill]

are you or are you not an amalgamate?
KC you need to warsh your Mouth out with Soap :eek:
By Gawd Im an Merican :D ;)
aint one of Them watchacallits !:eek: :twinkies:

[Harry Beanbag]

as long as upper end leisure industries, like higher end restaurants, need cheap labor, don't expect any real sharp "reform". except the occasional symbolic, arbitrary "ICE" raid to placate the drooling idiots.

and when you are paying 10 bucks a pound for ground beef because of the "new" labor costs, we'll see.


Normally, you are very level headed, but I think this is BS. The market will not bear $10 a pound for ground beef, so that's just not gonna happen.

[olevetonahill]

Normally, you are very level headed, but I think this is BS. The market will not bear $10 a pound for ground beef, so that's just not gonna happen.
Im gonna wait on 1TC to weigh in here !:D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We won't enforce the borders...so I don't have much faith we'll be willing to enforce the new laws either.....

Fixed. Republican politicians have a delusional hope that the newly legalized citizens will miraculously vote against expanded welfare handouts, and that somehow, illegals will stop invading our country.

[yermom]

Normally, you are very level headed, but I think this is BS. The market will not bear $10 a pound for ground beef, so that's just not gonna happen.

well, with $10 gas, it will seem like a bargain ;)

[yermom]

I am sorry if this sounds insensitive, but I say just spray a bunch of RAID over the entire country of Mexico. The country serves no purpose. The people cause more trouble than good.

we should just do this everywhere but here

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I am sorry if this sounds insensitive, but I say just spray a bunch of RAID over the entire country of Mexico. The country serves no purpose. The people cause more trouble than good.


Hitler!!!

[Okla-homey]

They are merely legitimizing the status quo. The American economy cannot function without the permanent under-class which makes it go. If this passes, those folks will begin to pay income taxes and their employers will begin to pay payroll taxes.

It could backfire on business though, because if Jose becomes legit, he can be represented by a union which will then engage in collective bargaining. At the end of the road, it could prove difficult to find landscapers, pickers, building tradesmen and restaurant workers who will work for $9.00 an hour.:eek:

[Okla-homey]

FWIW, carping about this stuff is akin to complaining about the price of gas. Too many interests are making too much money off the status quo to allow the assembled brain trust in Congress to do anything that would seriously impact it.

This bill, if it passes, is probably just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The fact is, our southern neighbors are here, and they aren't going anywhere. I don't think we can afford to have it any other way.

[Jerk]

Homey - it is not beyond our capability to secure the border. After that happens, they should offer work visas for these people which would include fingerprinting, background checks, etc, so we know who they are. Then they could be legally employed under our current labor laws. But to give them the vote would be a mistake...unless you support one party government.

[Okla-homey]

Homey - it is not beyond our capability to secure the border. After that happens, they should offer work visas for these people which would include fingerprinting, background checks, etc, so we know who they are. Then they could be legally employed under our current labor laws. But to give them the vote would be a mistake...unless you support one party government.

If there was much difference between the donks and elephants I would agree. For the most part, there isn't much difference between a moderate elephant and a moderate donk. The wackos at the extreme end of both parties can't get traction to pass their wacky legislation anyway, so I'm not afraid of "one party" gubmint. We already have it. It's called the "Senator For Life" Party.

[Harry Beanbag]

I don't really care what they do with the mythical 12 million. Just secure the mother ****ing border for national security purposes.

[Scott D]

If there was much difference between the donks and elephants I would agree. For the most part, there isn't much difference between a moderate elephant and a moderate donk. The wackos at the extreme end of both parties can't get traction to pass their wacky legislation anyway, so I'm not afraid of "one party" gubmint. We already have it. It's called the "Senator For Life" Party.

I gave up on trying to explain how it's already a "one party" government. People still think that the letter/symbol next to a politician's name means that the smoke they plan to blow up the voting public's *** is any different than the guy with the other letter/symbol. Then again, it also appears a lot of the time that the American public wants a Monarchy/Nobility system, much like the one that a bunch of people fought against having back in 1776.

[jk the sooner fan]

I don't really care what they do with the mythical 12 million. Just secure the mother ****ing border for national security purposes.

EXACTLY!

[Okla-homey]

I don't really care what they do with the mythical 12 million. Just secure the mother ****ing border for national security purposes.


There is no way to secure the border without real-time overwatch of every inch with response elements able to deploy to the scene of each incursion within 5 minutes and authorized to use deadly force...and the cooperation of the Mexican government. Lacking Mexican cooperation, we'd need landmines. Mixed density field starting about a half click south of the line. Anti-armor and anti-personnel with procedures to replace the detonated mines within 24 hrs.

I don't think we have the national will to do that.

[Scott D]

I don't really care what they do with the mythical 12 million. Just secure the mother ****ing border for national security purposes.

eh pick a conspiracy theory why they don't.

a) Even the Government needs cheap landscaping
b) Can't interrupt the flow of drugs to keep the masses complacent and lethargic
c) To make Jerk blow a gasket every time someone mentions Government
d) To keep Rush Limbaugh's ratings inflated
e) To make Ted Kennedy feel important
f) All of the Above
g) None of the Above (Go Brewster!)

[Scott D]

There is no way to secure the border without real-time overwatch of every inch with response elements able to deploy to the scene of each incursion within 5 minutes and authorized to use deadly force...and the cooperation of the Mexican government. Lacking Mexican cooperation, we'd need landmines. Mixed density field starting about a half click south of the line. Anti-armor and anti-personnel with procedures to replace the detonated mines within 24 hrs.

I don't think we have the national will to do that.

I'd prefer to think it's more of a "We've gotten mass slaughter out of our system" back when our government decided it wanted all of the "Injun Land".

[Okla-homey]

I'd prefer to think it's more of a "We've gotten mass slaughter out of our system" back when our government decided it wanted all of the "Injun Land".

and that, mi amigo, is precisely why we won't "secure the border."

Images of dead and dying wretches lying in the sand riddled with American lead and steel would invoke worldwide condemnation of a nation which the planet considers obscenely wealthy and perfectly able to make room for these poor unfortunates who seek a better life in the USA.

[1stTimeCaller]

Im gonna wait on 1TC to weigh in here !:D
I have no idea what a pound of ground bear costs.

Even if/when prices of fruit, veggies, meat and poultry go up due to us shipping illegals back to Mexico, Honduras, Canada, etc., won't that be offset by fewer social costs i.e. illegals driving w/o insurance and getting into wrecks, the decreased burden on our public school system, and other social costs currently being paid for due to their being here?

I hope that makes sense in a typewritten form, it does in my head.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

:les: STOP THE CALLING OF NAMES!!!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

if this passes. millions of instant citizens for the politicians to buy votes from through handouts. Vote for me! I'll take from the gringo and give to you!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P68N7G0&show_article=1

Deal Struck on Immigration Bill
May 17 01:05 PM US/Eastern
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - A bipartisan group of senators reached agreement with the White House Thursday on an immigration overhaul to grant quick legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S. and fortify the border against new ones.

One of the key negotiators, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said he expects President Bush to endorse it.

The deal came after weeks of painstaking closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans together with Bush's Cabinet officers to produce a highly complex measure that carries heavy political consequences.

It set the stage for what promises to be a bruising battle next week in the Senate on one of Bush's top non-war priorities.

This is a breaking news update. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP)—Republican and Democratic senators huddled Thursday trying to close in on an immigration compromise to grant quick legal status to millions of undocumented immigrants while fortifying U.S. borders against new ones.

A group of lawmakers that has been haggling over the terms of agreement for weeks were reviewing language negotiated Wednesday night in efforts to nail down a deal. Among the final sticking points was a stubborn dispute over how much family ties count toward green cards under a new "point system." The plan prioritizes advanced skills and education levels for future immigrants.

Two of the lead negotiators, Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., booked time for Thursday afternoon in the Senate's radio-TV gallery for an announcement.

But Kennedy said some were hanging back as an agreement inched closer.

"There are just some people who don't want to close on this. There comes a time in every negotiation where people have to close," Kennedy said. "Today is it."

Kennedy said Thursday was likely the last chance for a compromise before senators scattered for a three-day weekend.

"The immigration reform legislation has come to a boiling point," Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said just before going into Thursday's meeting. "We've tried to come to a consensus and I think we are very, very close, but every time we grasp it, it eludes a final resolution."

If no deal emerged, Senate Democrats were to vote Monday evening to bring up an immigration measure that passed last year over the objections of most Republicans, who have said they will block it. That would be a highly partisan start to the immigration debate, which divides the two parties and exposes fissures within their ranks.

Even with a bipartisan agreement, the immigration debate could easily devolve into a free-for-all in the unruly Senate.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has said he wants to complete a bill before Memorial Day, and President Bush says he wants to sign one by summer's end.

Agreed,

I have become a one-issue voter. My Senators and my Rep will soon know how I feel and how I will vote in the upcoming elections based on their vote. No allowing illegal aliens legal status in this country ever, no way, and no how!!!!

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Jerk wrote: "instant citizens"

giving someone "legal status" is not equivalent to "citizenship." Under the proposal, those illegally present would have an opportunity to receive z-visas.

This does not make them citizens.

if they qualify for the z-visa, pay the fines and the fees, pass the background check, they may have an opportunity to return to their home country and apply for a green card (resident aliens) - in 8 to 13 years after receiving z-visas.

This does not make them citizens.

Ordinarily, one must hold a green card for 5 years before becoming eligible for citizenship.

So, after a minimum of 13 years - likely longer - they may be eligible for citizenship.

[CUinNC]

There is no way to secure the border without real-time overwatch of every inch with response elements able to deploy to the scene of each incursion within 5 minutes and authorized to use deadly force...and the cooperation of the Mexican government. Lacking Mexican cooperation, we'd need landmines. Mixed density field starting about a half click south of the line. Anti-armor and anti-personnel with procedures to replace the detonated mines within 24 hrs.

That
Is
Beautiful........;)

Lt. Colonel Bill Kilgore - "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Jerk wrote: "instant citizens"

giving someone "legal status" is not equivalent to "citizenship." Under the proposal, those illegally present would have an opportunity to receive z-visas.

This does not make them citizens.

if they qualify for the z-visa, pay the fines and the fees, pass the background check, they may have an opportunity to return to their home country and apply for a green card (resident aliens) - in 8 to 13 years after receiving z-visas.

This does not make them citizens.

No but one step closer. You do realize that the La Raza and LULAC and their ilk will try to get the fines removed or whittle them down and the touch back proposal removed. This Senate bill will not pass as it looks now and it will not likely be made harder. They want to make it easy and there is no discussion regarding being Americans and becoming Americans. It is all about mexico bleeding the safety valve our way and reducing their need to reform and provide jobs within their border.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

ABC boy says: Change the law to make "community service" people, welfare recipients and prison people do the "work that Americans don't want to do".

Let's see: make businesses hire the most dysfunctional, laziest folks as employees. affirmative action for citizens who can't wipe their own a$$. sounds like something the old soviet union communists would dream up to F-up economic activity.

our 13.5 trillion dollar economy is much better off if businesses are allowed to hire the most qualified and productive workers without some nightmare gov't program for those who don't want to work.

[Ike]

This may be long, and if so I apologize....


I've been thinking about immigration a bit lately and I've come to a point in my thinking where I am actually less sure of my position regarding immigration than I was before. This is primarily because I never took much time to think about it before and because I am largely ignorant of the process that individuals have to go through to immigrate here. Anyway, the way I understand how things work for legal immigrants these days is that by and large, they have a far better chance of of immigrating to this country if they come over here (legally) with a job already in hand. If that really is the case, I think I have a problem with that.

America has long prided itself on being "The Land of Opportunity", and I submit that the fact that we have a very large number of undocumented workers here is in my opinion, proof that there is still some truth in that sentiment. However, how long can we really maintain that position if we only allow people to come here after they have already been given some opportunity? Let me state for the record that I fully understand the practical reasons for some of our immigration policies that make this the case (or at least, as I understand it, this is the case), and these reasons have some amount of merit to them. However, I think that focusing solely on the practicalities of immigration has led us to forget about the bigger picture, and that is that we should want to maintain our status as the land of opportunity. That means allowing people to come here without a job in hand, and to seek out opportunities that may not exist in their home countries. I submit that we as a nation benefit mightily from the people willing to take the risk of seeking out new opportunities. We certainly have in the past. But how many of those types are turned away and/or "forced" to seek out these opportunities illegally? I don't know that number...I'd like to, but I don't. I assume it's a rather large fraction, but I could be way off. But taking that assumption, these now-illegal opportunity seekers are inherently limited in the opportunities available to them and their ability to make the most of their situation as well as the fact that illegal immigration hurts the nation at large through non-payment of taxes of these illegal immigrants and their use of taxpayer funded services.

I believe that Bush was 100% correct when he said that what we need is comprehensive immigration reform. It's probably time start with a blank slate and re-form our immigration policies with more of an eye on the big picture. I think we've gotten too bogged down in the details of putting small additions here and there with the past 50 or so years of immigration policy that it's probably time to step back and start by asking "who do we want to be?", and working from that, rather than trying to bandage up the problems that occur here or there.


Of course, thats my idealism speaking. Not for a minute do I think that that will ever come to pass. Washington just does not have the capacity to think large scale anymore.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

ABC boy says: Change the law to make "community service" people, welfare recipients and prison people do the "work that Americans don't want to do".

Let's see: make businesses hire the most dysfunctional, laziest folks as employees. affirmative action for citizens who can't wipe their own a$$. sounds like something the old soviet union communists would dream up to F-up economic activity.

our 13.5 trillion dollar economy is much better off if businesses are allowed to hire the most qualified and productive workers without some nightmare gov't program for those who don't want to work.

The name is TheHumanAlphabet.

Chain gangs did well on the farm. Angola (LA) Prison has a fine farm that the prisoner's tend. We need to stop subsidizing people and flaunting our immigration laws. Nothing good has come from guest worker visa's that allow people to stay and live in the host country - ask Germany. You want a guest worker program, fine. Then set up a legal means for a visa that allows them to work and then go back home. If they want to immigrate to the U.S., then they can apply for permanent residency like all the rest - just get in line.

What's so wrong about wresting the most out of your tax welfare dollars. Putting people to work whether it is prisoners, welfare people and people who are doing community service, I hope the work is hard, perhaps that will get people either to fly right or perhaps figure out they don't want to be on welfare their entire life and get a skill and better paying jobs.

Hell the summer I worked landscape crew cemented in me I wanted to get my education.

Ike: You got a point. Chuck the whole damn thing and redo it. I doubt if our "leaders" have the leadership to do it and do it right.

[Jerk]

Homey - you still don't get it. Do you realize how many millions of people will instantly become eligable for welfare and all of our other social services if they are granted amnesty? Okay, forget my one party comment. How bout this: You want socialism? This is the surest way for it to become unstoppable: You get millions of people hooked on handouts, freebies, etc. You make them dependent on these 'benefits,' and THEN you give them the right to vote. Goodbye any real opposition to socialism. Conservatism will be dead. Libertarianism will be dead. The only thing left will be a massive number of needy 3rd world people who will will vote for their goodies, and guess who pays for it?

The only good thing after that is that the whole system will collapse, as it always does. I just don't want to live through that.

This whole thing is about the destruction of any real alternative to massive government.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Homey - you still don't get it. Do you realize how many millions of people will instantly become eligable for welfare and all of our other social services if they are granted amnesty? Okay, forget my one party comment. How bout this: You want socialism? This is the surest way for it to become unstoppable: You get millions of people hooked on handouts, freebies, etc. You make them dependent on these 'benefits,' and THEN you give them the right to vote. Goodbye any real opposition to socialism. Conservatism will be dead. Libertarianism will be dead. The only thing left will be a massive number of needy 3rd world people who will will vote for their goodies, and guess who pays for it?

The only good thing after that is that the whole system will collapse, as it always does. I just don't want to live through that.

This whole thing is about the destruction of any real alternative to massive government.This immigration bill is about securing a solid majority of democrat voters. The republicans in congress who vote for it are simply signing their resignation papers.

[Scott D]

now now willie favor, it's about the RINOS establishing firm entrenchment in their RINOism.

[SteelClip49]

Speaking of Mexicans.....and this is a good thing.......

Poquito's Mexican restaurant in downtown Yukon has been there for a long time and for very reasonable prices, their food is off the charts amazing.


Oh yeah, TED's is NOT mexican food.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

now now willie favor, it's about the RINOS establishing firm entrenchment in their RINOism.The RINO ranks are swelling with this bill, but after the next election, they will settle back to their former level.

[Scott D]

The RINO ranks are swelling with this bill, but after the next election, they will settle back to their former level.

are you sure that the RINOs and DINOS aren't just collaborating to make sure you have a stroke?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

are you sure that the RINOs and DINOS aren't just collaborating to make sure you have a stroke?They're after you, too, but you haven't yet acknowledged it.

[Scott D]

I don't need to, I recognize that they are both part of the Quintuplet of EVIL along with extremists.

[StoopTroup]

After we won the War on Drugs and stopped the inflow of illegal narcotics into the U.S., it was just the next logical thing to try to stop illegal immigration...

In a few months we'll have this all under control and the labor force will be cleaned up just like we cleaned up the street drugs.

I'm going to take the high road on this one and you all will soon see the greatness of the current political powers in this Country....:D

[stoopified]

A long time ago, a car with two people ran off a bridge in Massachussettes, and the wrong damned person died.
True dat.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

are you sure that the RINOs and DINOS aren't just collaborating to make sure you have a stroke?BTW, you can count the national level DINOS on one hand, and I can't name even one, unless you say Joe Lieberman with his pro-Iraq war stance.

[stoopified]

Speaking of Mexicans.....and this is a good thing.......

Poquito's Mexican restaurant in downtown Yukon has been there for a long time and for very reasonable prices, their food is off the charts amazing.


Oh yeah, TED's is NOT mexican food.I don't know if TEDS is Mexican or not but I likee.
As for the subject at hand I prefer our state immigration bill.

[SoonerGirl06]

If the people who are coming here illegally wanted to become productive, law abiding citizens of our country they would take the necessary steps to become LEGAL citizens. The fact is, a majority of them don't. They want to slide under the radar, take complete advantage of our social and economic systems only to return to their beloved homeland. They could care less about America.

The benefits of illegals providing cheap labor for businesses does not IMO outweigh the burdens they are placing upon our educational, healthcare and judicial systems. IMO providing amnesty to them will not alleviate the problems, but only intensify them.

[Scott D]

BTW, you can count the national level DINOS on one hand, and I can't name even one, unless you say Joe Lieberman with his pro-Iraq war stance.

Technically everyone in Washington is a (insert party here)INO. When you sell your soul to be at the highest level of government, any and all percieved moral scruples you may have gotten into politics for are out the window.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

[QUOTE=SoonerGirl06]If the people who are coming here illegally wanted to become productive, law abiding citizens of our country they would take the necessary steps to become LEGAL citizens. The fact is, a majority of them don't. QUOTE]

some of those illegally present have been in line for many years, and under section 245i of CURRENT law will eventually be able to adjust to legal status without leaving the country. the line is just slow moving because the quota is so much lower than labor demand.

the others have no legal path presently to get in line. comprehensive reform is needed so they have a legal means to work. they'd love the opportunity to do things the legal way.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Technically everyone in Washington is a (insert party here)INO. When you sell your soul to be at the highest level of government, any and all percieved moral scruples you may have gotten into politics for are out the window.Agreed. Most principled folks DO succumb to the intoxication that is DC. There are a few that don't, but not enough to improve the place much.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

nm

[SoonerGirl06]

comprehensive reform is needed so they have a legal means to work. they'd love the opportunity to do things the legal way.

Agreed. Comprehensive reform is needed, but providing amnesty is not the answer IMO. Basically congress is saying, "Hey! It's okay to break our laws." Which I think is the wrong message to send.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

they arent proposing amnesty.

those illegally present would have to pay a fine and it will not be erased from their record.

Amnesty (from the Greek amnestia, oblivion) is an act of justice by which the supreme power in a state restores those who may have been guilty of any offence against it to the position of innocent persons. It includes more than pardon, in as much as it obliterates all legal remembrance of the offense.

[SoonerGirl06]

they arent proposing amnesty.

those illegally present would have to pay a fine and it will not be erased from their record.

Amnesty (from the Greek amnestia, oblivion) is an act of justice by which the supreme power in a state restores those who may have been guilty of any offence against it to the position of innocent persons. It includes more than pardon, in as much as it obliterates all legal remembrance of the offense.

They're hear ILLEGALLY. They are guilty of breaking the law.

The government is offering them LEGAL status. What they're offering is a form of amnesty... but amnesty nonetheless


BTW do you really believe that they're going to pay the fine so they can become legal? Pfffttt... I don't think so. But that's just my opinion.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

They're hear ILLEGALLY. They are guilty of breaking the law.

The government is offering them LEGAL status. What they're offering is a form of amnesty... but amnesty nonetheless

Amnesty is like what Oklahoma did for tattoo artists. they were illegal and they could become legal without any punishment or record of offense.

reducing a penalty is not amnesty. thousands of college students have paid a fine for illegally downloading copyrighted music. they didn't go to jail. they werent banned from listening to music. they werent given amnesty.

i think those illegally present will pay a fine, but less than 5000. the fine for adjusting status now is $1000 under family reunification under the old 1986 immigration law. i'd guess, if this ultimately becomes law, it will be $2000.

[SoonerGirl06]

Amnesty is like what Oklahoma did for tattoo artists. they were illegal and they could become legal without any punishment or record of offense.

reducing a penalty is not amnesty. thousands of college students have paid a fine for illegally downloading copyrighted music. they didn't go to jail. they werent banned from listening to music. they werent given amnesty.

i think those illegally present will pay a fine, but less than 5000. the fine for adjusting status now is $1000 under family reunification under the old 1986 immigration law. i'd guess, if this ultimately becomes law, it will be $2000.


I'm not going to get into a p*ssing contest with you about the definition of amnesty. Whatever. I think your missing the bigger picture. If these people are allowed a free pass (and in the whole scheme of things they're being given a free pass) into this country it will change the dynamics of our country. It will eventually turn into a one party system and a socialistic society.

As far as the fine goes... answer my original question. Do you honestly think that they're going to comply and pay the fines that will be imposed upon them?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

As far as the fine goes... answer my original question. Do you honestly think that they're going to comply and pay the fines that will be imposed upon them?

they'll have to pay the fine if they want to move from the temporary z-visa after 8 years to a permanent green card visa. i don't think it will stay at $5000 if it ultimately is passed - maybe $2000. but yes, if they don't send it in with their application for legal status, it will be rejected. if they pay a coyote $3000 to smuggle them across the border to be illegal, they pay the fine to be legal. once they are legal they can go back and forth without having to pay a coyote each time. much cheaper in the long run.