For all you Chuck Long believers

[Big Red Ron]

SCHEDULE
DateOpponentTime/ResultAug 31UTEP (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/TXEP)Lost 27-34 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060831_TXEP@SDGST)Sep 16@Wisconsin (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/WI)Lost 0-14 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060916_SDGST@WI)Sep 23Utah (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/UT)Lost 7-38 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060923_UT@SDGST)Sep 30@San Jose St. (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/SJST)Lost 10-31 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060930_SDGST@SJST)Oct 7@BYU (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/BYU)Lost 17-47 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061007_SDGST@BYU)Oct 21Air Force (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/AF)Won 19-12 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061021_AF@SDGST)Oct 28Cal Poly (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/CPOLY)Lost 14-16 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061028_CPOLY@SDGST)Nov 4@Wyoming (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/WY)Lost 24-27 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061104_SDGST@WY)Nov 11UNLV (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/UNLV)Won 21-7 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061111_UNLV@SDGST)Nov 18@TCU (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/TCU)Lost 0-52 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061118_SDGST@TCU)Nov 25@New Mexico (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/NM)Lost 14-41 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061125_SDGST@NM)Dec 2Colorado St. (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/COST)Won 17-6 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061202_COST@SDGST)

3-9 folks! I'm so glad he's gone.

They were ranked 113 out of 119 in scoring offense.

Like my ol' Papy used to say, "The proof is in the pudding."

I wonder how many times he called the I-formation, draw play?

[Spray]

You know this proves nothing, don't you?

[sooner518]

i would kill for some chocolate pudding right now. and if there is proof in there, even better!

[Spray]

I actually prefer vanilla pudding.

(Food themed thread-jack in progress)

[yermom]

I actually prefer vanilla pudding.

(Food themed thread-jack in progress)

you and Chuck both ;)

[Spray]

Touche! That was t-ball wasn't it.

Which reminds me... Mmmm- t-bone steak...

[Jello Biafra]

Touche! That was t-ball wasn't it.

Which reminds me... Mmmm- t-bone steak...



he said BONE

[FlatheadSooner]

SCHEDULE
DateOpponentTime/ResultAug 31UTEP (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/TXEP)Lost 27-34 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060831_TXEP@SDGST)Sep 16@Wisconsin (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/WI)Lost 0-14 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060916_SDGST@WI)Sep 23Utah (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/UT)Lost 7-38 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060923_UT@SDGST)Sep 30@San Jose St. (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/SJST)Lost 10-31 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060930_SDGST@SJST)Oct 7@BYU (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/BYU)Lost 17-47 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061007_SDGST@BYU)Oct 21Air Force (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/AF)Won 19-12 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061021_AF@SDGST)Oct 28Cal Poly (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/CPOLY)Lost 14-16 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061028_CPOLY@SDGST)Nov 4@Wyoming (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/WY)Lost 24-27 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061104_SDGST@WY)Nov 11UNLV (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/UNLV)Won 21-7 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061111_UNLV@SDGST)Nov 18@TCU (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/TCU)Lost 0-52 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061118_SDGST@TCU)Nov 25@New Mexico (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/NM)Lost 14-41 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061125_SDGST@NM)Dec 2Colorado St. (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/COST)Won 17-6 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061202_COST@SDGST)

3-9 folks! I'm so glad he's gone.

They were ranked 113 out of 119 in scoring offense.

Like my ol' Papy used to say, "The proof is in the pudding."

I wonder how many times he called the I-formation, draw play?


Time will tell...........but I believe the man had tunnel vision.............er, blinders on...........well, you get the point. :(

[oumartin]

i don't miss him!

There are assistants I miss and he just is not one.

[Collier11]

you guys are so blind!!! Look at our offensive rankings while he was o-coordinator. He def had his moments when he went into a shell, but the way everyone disrespects him around here makes me ashamed! Show some Sooner Class for all he did for us rather than the mistakes he made

[snp]

^^^ What he said.

[the dude]

I'm with the first guy. Watching CL's game's was painful at times.

[oumartin]

what? are you kidding me. that series in the Sugar Bowl was an all time goof!

[Jello Biafra]

you guys are so blind!!! Look at our offensive rankings while he was o-coordinator. He def had his moments when he went into a shell, but the way everyone disrespects him around here makes ashamed! Show some Sooner Class for all he did for us rather than the mistakes he made




i disagree. somewhat. here's one example:

who am i?

33 rushes 106 yards
37 pass attemps 13 cathes 102 yards


for the game


scenario:
in position to win to tie the game on the 49 yard line 2:09 left in the game after absolutely gashing the defense the two series prior to this one..... defense tired; whole defense standing around with their hands on the hips after each and every play.


the outcome : 4 pass incompletions in a row.



what am I ?

[KStatePike]

Funny thing is, I think he has our old OC and DC as well as a couple other guys from Snyder's last staffs.

[Rogue]

You are the Sugar Bowl. Unfortunately.

[King Crimson]

i was not a big fan of Chuck at the end of the day, but his first year at SDSU is hardly confirmation of the vitriol he gets by our fan base on this board and others. though, i hear the SDSU boards aren't exactly hot on him either.

i was at the Sugar Bowl, sitting in THAT endzone....it broke my will to believe in Chuck. to my dad's credit, all game, and i mean ALL GAME....he was yelling at the top of his lungs....."Chuck, run the ball out of the gawdamned I....Chuck, RUN the BALL out of the GAWDAMNED I.....".

the stories of the USC d players calling out our plays in teh second half when we lined up was a little discomforting too (since OU fans had also been doing it for some time).

Chuck won some big games at OU. no personal beef with me. but, i don't think he wins 11 games last year with ENA. i think he's good at making QB's better, but so was Rick Neuheisel.

[TopDawg]

Like my ol' Papy used to say, "The proof is in the pudding."

No disrespek to your ol' Papy, but it's supposed to be: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

[SoonerLB]

He'll never be missed by me. Just sayin'.

[Collier11]

I didnt say I missed him or that he didnt screw up in big situations...all I said was show the guy some respect and quit treating him like garbage

[yermom]

i was not a big fan of Chuck at the end of the day, but his first year at SDSU is hardly confirmation of the vitriol he gets by our fan base on this board and others. though, i hear the SDSU boards aren't exactly hot on him either.

i was at the Sugar Bowl, sitting in THAT endzone....it broke my will to believe in Chuck. to my dad's credit, all game, and i mean ALL GAME....he was yelling at the top of his lungs....."Chuck, run the ball out of the gawdamned I....Chuck, RUN the BALL out of the GAWDAMNED I.....".

the stories of the USC d players calling out our plays in teh second half when we lined up was a little discomforting too (since OU fans had also been doing it for some time).

Chuck won some big games at OU. no personal beef with me. but, i don't think he wins 11 games last year with ENA. i think he's good at making QB's better, but so was Rick Neuheisel.

i don't hate Chuck, my vanilla comment was open so i took it :D

he won the games that we could out talent the other defense, which means we won A LOT of games, but when we played good corners in 2003 we got hosed. somewhere our WRs forgot how to catch balls too :( if we traded OCs with USC in 04 i think you all know what would have happened...

he was a great QB coach, and a good OC, just not MNC caliber, apparently

i think he needs some time to win at SDSU, i'm not convinced that he won't. one year doesn't say that much

[RedstickSooner]

Here's my thing on CL: Dude no longer coaches here.

That being the case, what do we gain by bashing him?

Zilch.

When he DID coach here, bashing him DOES accomplish something -- it can help hasten his departure. But once he's gone?

No longer any reason to mention the guy.

[Salt City Sooner]

I followed SDSU as much as I could last year (watched about a half-dozen or so games) due to Long & his staff having so many B12 ties, & what those numbers above forget to mention is the fact that the Aztecs were flat out decimated by injuries, especially on the offensive side of the ball. In fact I really can't recall a team that had worse fortune on the injury front since I started watching CFB. I'm no Long apologist to say the least, but there's no way he can be legitimately graded as a head coach until he gets some semblance of a decent hand to play with, which is something that SDSU wasn't in the same zip code of in '06.

[Big Red Ron]

Here's my thing on CL: Dude no longer coaches here.

That being the case, what do we gain by bashing him?

Zilch.

When he DID coach here, bashing him DOES accomplish something -- it can help hasten his departure. But once he's gone?

No longer any reason to mention the guy.It's less about bashing him than it is "giving it up to myself." :D

I had some knock down drag outs here about Chuck's "abilities" as a play caller. I think Yermon summed up my thoughts exactly.

[Big Red Ron]

I followed SDSU as much as I could last year (watched about a half-dozen or so games) due to Long & his staff having so many B12 ties, & what those numbers above forget to mention is the fact that the Aztecs were flat out decimated by injuries, especially on the offensive side of the ball. In fact I really can't recall a team that had worse fortune on the injury front since I started watching CFB. I'm no Long apologist to say the least, but there's no way he can be legitimately graded as a head coach until he gets some semblance of a decent hand to play with, which is something that SDSU wasn't in the same zip code of in '06.I didn't know about the injuries. I'm still glad he's not calling the plays here anymore. I'll give him another year before I grade him then. ;)

[usmc-sooner]

No disrespek to your ol' Papy, but it's supposed to be: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

only you would feel the need to correct someone over the origin of something like that.

[goingoneight]

You guys do know that he was a co-coordinator in 2000, and was a full-time OC when we got a fourth Heisman winnar and a kid named Adrian Peterson, don't you?

If you hated Mangino, hated Long, and hate Wilson for all the same reasons, when do you rest the blame on the head coach for being the one on the sidelines giving the final "Okay" on the playcall. I can understand if we went from the No. 1-ranked offense, returned 9 starters and ended up unranked the next season, but all these years of bashing the play-calling is kinda redundant, isn't it?

Stoops has always said in the press conferences when we have offensive troubles that we...
a) didn't execute (most common)
b) turned the ball over/didn't protect the football
c) that he and the coaching staff made a mistake.

... don't believe it? Look up the post game on the 2006 aTm game. Bob has always taken the blame for "being conservative" or "maybe not calling the right shots." The OC isn't standing on the sidelines cussing out the QB and telling him to be conservative. He coordinates the offense in practice. He works with timing, blocking techniques, fundamentals, drills, etc.

I admit I've ripped on CL before, but that was when he openly admitted to calling the plays conservatively against Tulsa, Texas and TCU. He said, "well, you hate to turn the ball over when you're in a position to score..." My rip was that we were never really in a position to score in a lot of those "3rd and long" situations; and running up the I everytime was burning up the clock, and not healthy for a single running back. 3 losses and two injuries to AD later, I was right. But I'm wrong sometimes too, that makes me human, and so is CL. He is a human who had the top-ranked passing offense thrice and three student-athlete invites to the Heisman ceremony.

[TopDawg]

only you would feel the need to correct someone over the origin of something like that.

I think you forgot to capitalize the first letter of your sentence.

[usmc-sooner]

I think you forgot to capitalize the first letter of your sentence.

i think you forgot to capitalize on life.

[Big Red Ron]

i think you forgot to capitalize on life.I think in a weird way he was actually agreeing with your point by making another nipicky point.:D

Kinda like pointing out the absurd by making an absurd comment. ;)

[King Crimson]

TopDawg is cool. he's an oldtimer. he has a crafty way of making his point.

to another poster above: i don't see anyone saying they "hated" the previous OC's Mangino, Long, Wilson....that's a straw man argument you set up. being critical is not an absolute negation. and those are silly premises to begin with.

how many calls did Mangino make on the LOS versus Heupel?

i think Mangino is a smart guy and did a lot of good for the 1999 and 2000 team but....the 2001 team?

[usmc-sooner]

[QUOTE=King Crimson]TopDawg is cool. he's an oldtimer. he has a crafty way of making his point.

QUOTE]

I doubt anyone posting this much is "cool" I doubt anyone who has a crafty way of making his point on an internet message board would be considered "cool"

I doubt I'd be in the Arthur Fonzerelli school of cool either. Probably a little cooler than a guy who knows the origin of the proof is in the pudding, but who knows.

[Big Red Ron]

I doubt I'd be in the Arthur Fonzerelli school of cool either. Probably a little cooler than a guy who knows the origin of the proof is in the pudding, but who knows.You do have a point or two there. :D

[King Crimson]

yawn.

[goingoneight]

but....the 2001 team?

The team that had Clayton, Q, White, Works?

Every coach gets ripped for their choices, often times the eggs are thrown in the wrong direction. If Stoops was angry with Chuck or K-Dub, he'd have changed things by now. OUr offense has changed to a system dependent on the running game. Fortunately, when it was shut down last season, we were able to get away with throwing the ball (BIG 12 Champeenship and Fiasco Bowl). And yes... there were plenty of people ripping Mangino for "clock management" in reference to throwing the ball so much.

All other guys get a B+ IMHO. Leach gets an 'A.' Mostly because Leach's offense seemed to be able to pull off anything out of the blue like Petersen's offense did.

I personally believe you can't win them all and that OUr coaches have done a damn fine job of adjusting to players strengths. Remember all the people calling for Chuck's head because he didn't run PT like Vince Young... "cuz he's a running QB..." I think that we figured out in the end that PT could run, and was fast, but was not a good running QB. We utilized his running ability on the rollouts he was so good at.

Not a rip on people here, just stating that sometimes it seems whoever calls the plays will continue to be ripped until he goes 14-0 and kills Texas. Often times, when the losses aren't really their fault.

[Big Red Ron]

it seems whoever calls the plays will continue to be ripped until he goes 14-0 and kills Texas. Often times, when the losses aren't really their fault.Personally, I really like the way Wilson calls the plays and the overall scheme. If Rhett wasn't a total idiot, we'd be sitting pretty with a seasoned QB and a pretty cool offense. Wilson's team has an attitude about it and is deceptively creative. Although I fully expect 14-0 from him soon. ;)

[TopDawg]

I doubt I'd be in the Arthur Fonzerelli school of cool either. Probably a little cooler than a guy who knows the origin of the proof is in the pudding, but who knows.

Well, technically I don't know the origin, just the correct phrasing. And now you do too.

[King Crimson]

The team that had Clayton, Q, White, Works?

Every coach gets ripped for their choices, often times the eggs are thrown in the wrong direction. If Stoops was angry with Chuck or K-Dub, he'd have changed things by now. OUr offense has changed to a system dependent on the running game. Fortunately, when it was shut down last season, we were able to get away with throwing the ball (BIG 12 Champeenship and Fiasco Bowl). And yes... there were plenty of people ripping Mangino for "clock management" in reference to throwing the ball so much.

All other guys get a B+ IMHO. Leach gets an 'A.' Mostly because Leach's offense seemed to be able to pull off anything out of the blue like Petersen's offense did.

I personally believe you can't win them all and that OUr coaches have done a damn fine job of adjusting to players strengths. Remember all the people calling for Chuck's head because he didn't run PT like Vince Young... "cuz he's a running QB..." I think that we figured out in the end that PT could run, and was fast, but was not a good running QB. We utilized his running ability on the rollouts he was so good at.

Not a rip on people here, just stating that sometimes it seems whoever calls the plays will continue to be ripped until he goes 14-0 and kills Texas. Often times, when the losses aren't really their fault.


i liked the 2001 team, but we didn't actually smoke a lot of people on the 2 yard bubble screen pass on 3rd and 8.

i'm not ripping anyone who calls the plays.

Mangino is a good coach.

i defended Chuck (with some qualifications).

Wilson won thr Big Xii with Patrick.

additionally, white's role in 01 was that he played when Hybl got hurt.

[rainiersooner]

You know this proves nothing, don't you?

Oh I don't know...I think it proves you shouldn't jump at the first head coach opportunity you get thrown your way. I'd bet a pretty penny that Chcuk could have done as well as the old Lester at LSU with their talent. He went to a crappy school with no facilities and no recruiting base...he's never going to win there. So I'm not sure what it proves.

[goingoneight]

i liked the 2001 team, but we didn't actually smoke a lot of people on the 2 yard bubble screen pass on 3rd and 8.

i'm not ripping anyone who calls the plays.

Mangino is a good coach.

i defended Chuck (with some qualifications).

Wilson won thr Big Xii with Patrick.

additionally, white's role in 01 was that he played when Hybl got hurt.


True, but who was the better QB, stealing the jorb? N8 wasn't out for the season and he admitted it in 2002 after the Rose Bowl when he said "I went through a lot losing my starting job, then taking it back..." I don't remember the exact rest of it, but he was really noble like PT, and said that he stepped back up to play and help them finish because he loved the team and the fans.

BTW, that's not a slam on N8... Stoops said it himself all 2001 season long that White was the real deal, and no one believed him until he beat Texas when N8 was hurt. He went with the more experienced guy, like he did in 2005 with PT before the meltdown that was 2005.

I, too... like what KW has done. A lot of people thought he was being conservative last season against aTm and Okie Light, but they were actually just trying to run the clock down and let the defense win those since neither opponent could defend the run, but were playing tight coverage in the secondary. You have to watch his formations from the sky cam to see what's different, the blocking scheme allowed AD to go a little more east and west, when we all know he was more of a north-south kinda RB. They eliminated the cross-routes in 2006, which is something I hope comes back soon since we have Murray and Iglesias who are good at that kinda thing.

[Egeo]

why dont we bash our players while were at it!

[goingoneight]

Oh I don't know...I think it proves you shouldn't jump at the first head coach opportunity you get thrown your way. I'd bet a pretty penny that Chcuk could have done as well as the old Lester at LSU with their talent. He went to a crappy school with no facilities and no recruiting base...he's never going to win there. So I'm not sure what it proves.

Proves maybe he felt it was worth a try, and got tired of his critics and negative media. Honestly, if he stayed through 2006, I thought ISU might haev been a good deal for him. Colorado's not such a bad deal, either.

[snp]

Sugar Bowl Stuff

You guys do remember that two of those passes were just inches away from a TD? White overthrew a wide open Jones, and Clayton couldn't save a catch he was capable of handling.

I still think that he should've ran it on first down at least, but if either of those catches were caught there goes most of the hate for him.

[lovesOU]

FWIW, I read that in the Sugar, that the O coaches on the sidelines were responsible for suggesting plays to CL and that part of the blame is due to them.

[rainiersooner]

Proves maybe he felt it was worth a try, and got tired of his critics and negative media. Honestly, if he stayed through 2006, I thought ISU might haev been a good deal for him. Colorado's not such a bad deal, either.

I agree - I think he could have gotten a better job and I think he would have done just fine at either of those schools.

[Vaevictis]

Heh, the fact that he took such a low profile job says one of three things:

1. He didn't think he was going to get a better offer.
2. He's too impatient to wait for a better offer.
3. He was told in no uncertain terms to take the offer.

Not so great no matter which way you look at it. :D

[TopDawg]

Heh, the fact that he took such a low profile job says one of three things:

1. He didn't think he was going to get a better offer.
2. He's too impatient to wait for a better offer.
3. He was told in no uncertain terms to take the offer.

Not so great no matter which way you look at it. :D

Well #2 isn't so bad. And there's at least one more option:

4. He didn't want to pass up a head coaching offer in one of the most desirable big cities in America.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Chucks problem was his failure to change. His failure to change his offense with the type of players we had/recruited for the 05/06 seasons and his failure to adapt his gameplans during a game, especailly the sugar bowl game in which we should have stuck to the run and the orange bowl game in which he chose to take the same plan he had in the 1st half and run it again in the 2nd half.


Should I say, Pride was his problem.


PREVENT OFFENSE

[The_Red_Patriot]

why dont we bash our players while were at it!

I bash them all the time. Especailly on defense. Coach V calls good defensive schemes but our players fail to execute.

cough:4th & 18:cough

[Vaevictis]

Well #2 isn't so bad. And there's at least one more option:

4. He didn't want to pass up a head coaching offer in one of the most desirable big cities in America.

Fold that one straight into #2 ;)

[Petro-Sooner]

and got tired of his critics and negative media.

I'm not sure about the media outside OKC. However, if you disagreed with the media in OKC that OU should find someone else you would laughed at and called stupid. They loved that guy. They acted like if you were an OU coach they you are God's gift to coaching and can do nothing wrong. :rolleyes:

Glad hes gone.

[TopDawg]

Fold that one straight into #2 ;)

Well I don't think you can fault a guy for accepting an upgrade in title and (arguably) location.

I mean, any one of the three things that you mentioned are quite possible...but I don't think they're the only options. It's quite possible that this promotion, raise (I assume) and location were just pretty dang attractive, despite the state of the program he was going to.

Or maybe he just didn't wanna work with Bomar. ;)

[Vaevictis]

Well, those are the most likely scenarios to me.

If you're the head coach of OU, who supposedly can take credit for what we saw in say, 2003 and 2004, you shouldn't have to settle for SDSU.

[colleyvillesooner]

what a sad little thread.

[Big Red Ron]

what a sad little thread.It's not sad at all to me. I believe myself and some others have been somewhat vindicated for calling for Chuck's head.

I was thoroughly sick of his vanilla offense and wasted opportunities. Heck, the way he screwed up the Thompson/Bomar situation alone should have shown most that he's a guy living off of his well earned reputation a a solid College QB.

[colleyvillesooner]

It's been one season at a ****ty school. What do you expect.

Don't you vindicated hurt your hands slapping each other on the back just yet. ;)

[Big Red Ron]

It's been one season at a ****ty school. What do you expect.

Don't you vindicated hurt your hands slapping each other on the back just yet. ;)I think last season was their worst in a couple of decades though. Also, I emphasized the offensive rankings, since he's (if you listened to our local media) an offensive savant of some sort.

;)

[colleyvillesooner]

True, but he's probably installing a different offense I imagine. The more skilled players to run it might not be there or be ready.

Take Mike Stoops. I'd say changing defensive schemes to make drastic changes is a little easier than offense. In his first year he went from 109th Total Defense to 61st. But his second year, they dropped to 86th, then last year at 49th. That's 3 years to go from 109 to 49th.

SD ST. dropped from 58th to 108th in Chuck's first year in Total Offense. To me that says he's chaning things up there.

I'm glad we got a new OC, expecially with the way things shook out at QB, I think Josh and KW handled it better than CL would have, but lets wait and see how he does in year 2-3 to make a judgement.

[oumartin]

chuck long was and probably still is a great QB coach! A very good offensive coordinator who at times seem to just totally lose focus of what was working.
We could have done alot worse than Chuck Long!
I am not sad he is gone but wish him the best.

[Big Red Ron]

chuck long was and probably still is a great QB coach! A very good offensive coordinator who at times seem to just totally lose focus of what was working.
We could have done alot worse than Chuck Long!
I am not sad he is gone but wish him the best.Yep. I also though he was terrible at clock management. He might end up a good HC but his decisions regarding Thompson/Bomar make me question his intelligence.

He is a very nice man from what I understand though.

[Vaevictis]

The only thing that bothered me about Chuck Long is that everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE knew exactly what was coming on almost every down those last couple of years.

Which is fine, if your athletes are so much better than the other guys that it doesn't matter that they know what you're doing. But that's probably not going to be the case when you're playing for a national championship.

[Salt City Sooner]

I had this buried in my Word documents so no link, but an interesting read none the less. To say that he had a huge hole to dig out of from the get go would be a rather large understatement:

Vanishing recruits
Touted players fall from SDSU football roster at high rate
By Brent Schrotenboer
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
February 6, 2007
* Aztecs see blue-chip local prospects lean toward other schools
* SDSU's hits and misses
From December 2001 through February 2004, San Diego State signed so many top football recruits that several national recruiting experts gushed with praise.

So did coach Tom Craft, who took over in December 2001.
“If we can continue to do this – have strong classes year after year – now you're looking at a different type of football program,” Craft said in 2004.

JIM BAIRD / Union-Tribune
Former Aztecs football coach Tom Craft had some heralded recruiting classes, but they produced few front-line players.

It didn't turn out that way, though. Among Craft's first three recruiting classes, there were just as many players who tragically bottomed out after leaving SDSU prematurely (one suicide, one charged with murder) as there have been first-team all-conference selections (two).

Thirty of those 79 recruits didn't qualify for admission, were kicked off the team or prematurely dropped off the roster for academic or personal reasons. That's a loss of more than one full recruiting class out of three – an alarming rate of attrition that continues to contribute to the challenges facing a team without a bowl berth since 1998.

Current coach Chuck Long, fresh off a 3-9 rookie season, will introduce his second recruiting class tomorrow. While declining to lay blame for the complex problem, he said the toll of that attrition lingers and that his staff was aware of it when taking over after Craft was fired in December 2005.
“It's going to take time to get those numbers back to where we need them,” Long said. “It affects your depth.”

When scholarship players leave the program prematurely, coaches often are forced to replace them with lesser-talented nonscholarship players.
The average attrition rate in Division I-A is roughly 7 percent, not including recruits who fail to qualify academically and never make the team roster. This rate is based on annual surveys made by the American Football Coaches Association over the past several years. With rosters limited to 85 scholarship players, teams usually are five or six under that at any one time, said AFCA Executive Director Grant Teaff.

“That's the natural attrition rate, people that drop off the roster,” he said.
SDSU's attrition rate is almost four times that average rate for those three recruiting classes, not counting eight who failed to academically qualify for the roster during those three years.

The attrition has been particularly acute on the offensive line, where seven recruits left the team prematurely for personal or health reasons from those three classes. Long called it a “critical need” for him now as a result.
“We've gone two years now trying to recruit those big guys in our program,” he said.

Craft didn't return phone messages seeking comment.
Craft's first three recruiting classes can be divided into three parts: 30 who fell off the map, 30 who started at least five games and 20 who started fewer than five games or none at all (one player started five games and left before the next season).

Fifteen of the 30 players who have started at least five games came from SDSU's 2003 class, a group that was heralded as easily the best recruiting class in the Mountain West Conference by recruiting experts in February 2003.

That group included the only first-team all-MWC players from those three classes: running back Lynell Hamilton and defensive end Antwan Applewhite.
The benchmark for a successful recruiting class is about 12 players who turn out to be regular starters.

“If you can get 15 to 20 starters out of a class, you've done an amazing job,” said Jeremy Crabtree, recruiting analyst for Rivals.com.
SDSU's 2003 class hit that threshold, although a big reason it did was necessity. The Aztecs had several holes to fill with so many players dropping off the roster, opening up plenty of opportunities for young recruits.

For the 2002 class, 13 of the 27 recruits left the program early, including La Quinta running back Frederick Collins, who was ranked by Rivals.com as the nation's 15th-best running back recruit. He rushed for 333 yards in 2002 before his father's death and academic problems led to his departure from the team by January 2004.

That class also included 11 junior college recruits – an area of recruiting emphasis that backfired on SDSU. In those first three classes, 21 of the 79 recruits were junior college recruits – but only six started at least five games.
When recruiting junior college players, the idea is to get players who can play right away because they have only two years of eligibility when they sign with Division I-A teams.

But of those 21 junior college recruits, five were two-year reserves, four failed to qualify and four others were dismissed or quit prematurely, including two troubled youths who soon encountered tragedy. Scottsdale (Ariz.) Community College defensive tackle Curtis Robinson, part of Craft's first class, committed suicide after leaving SDSU. Moorpark College defensive end Martin Miller left SDSU after 2004 and now is facing charges of murder and attempted murder in Tulare County in the San Joaquin Valley, stemming from an incident in November 2005. His trial is set for March.

“San Diego State has had a huge hole to dig themselves out of,” Crabtree, the analyst, said.

Crabtree blamed several factors for the attrition: poor decisions, poor evaluations on players and not recruiting enough high school kids.
Other reasons go beyond the head coach and his staff. Academic support for at-risk athletes was determined to be “limited” by SDSU officials, leading to a beefing up of academic support for them in the past two years. SDSU recently added a new position for director of student-athlete academic support services and this year budgeted $450,000 for summer athletic scholarships, up from $350,000 last year.

SDSU hopes the changes foster better retention rates for athletes, especially after new NCAA academic reforms have compounded the attrition issue for the Aztecs. If academically ineligible players leave school, their team suffers a loss of points in its Academic Progress Rate (APR). Ultimately, a poor APR leads to scholarship reduction penalties. Last year, the NCAA hit SDSU with a four-scholarship penalty in football.

The year before, SDSU's APR was third-worst among 117 Division I-A teams, behind only Middle Tennessee State and San Jose State.
“I haven't seen that kind of attrition other places I've been,” Long said. “But the academic plan now is to keep them on track and in school. We have great support now in academics. It's probably the most key in our program.”

[colleyvillesooner]

That'll do it. Damn.

[Big Red Ron]

Bob Stoops. "No excuses. We came here to win."

Chuck Long, "It's going to take time...”


just sayin'

Ou wasn't exactly doing that great at keeping players or recruiting that well for a decade.

[colleyvillesooner]

Bob Stoops. "No excuses. We came here to win."

Chuck Long, "It's going to take time...”


just sayin'

Ou wasn't exactly doing that great at keeping players or recruiting that well for a decade.

Yeah, but Bob landed a TOP program, even if it was down. He knew he could recruit kids to come there and he knew the talent that lay dormant in Norman already. Little different scenario for Chuck.

Can't believe I'm defending Chuck Long. :D

[snp]

Bob Stoops. "No excuses. We came here to win."

Chuck Long, "It's going to take time...”


just sayin'

Ou wasn't exactly doing that great at keeping players or recruiting that well for a decade.

Not even close.

[Big Red Ron]

Not even close.I understand the difference in program profile but it's an attitude. I have no doubt that Bob would have said the same thing at any job. Don't forget, that SDSU beat OU right before Bob took the OU job. People in the media were questioning whether or not OU could ever catch up in the Big XII. We were maybe, the 6th best team in the Big XII probably closer to 8th.

It's not as if the Aztecs play in a powerhouse conference either.

[TMcGee86]

While I wasn't enamored with CL's play calling on a consistent basis, I tend to think he got lulled into the same trap that all the coaches and the players seemed to fall into and that was the AD will provide trap. It really seemed that with AD around everyone subconsciously acted as though he would get them through.

The coaches called mind-numbing plays over and over again, and the players just didn't seem to have the same fire that the 2000 squad had when we had no quote-unquote superstar.

Even last season I saw it when AD was out we ran more interesting runs and formations and yet when he was back we never saw it.

Granted AD was so good there was no need for fancy trickeration, but I just think it's hard to put all the blame at CL's feet for letting a talented bunch just play straight up. Though it did get frustrating when things failed to work and we would keep doing the same thing. I agree with those that said his main fault was an apparent pride barrier to changing the gameplan.

[colleyvillesooner]

Psst. Peterson didn't play in the Sugar Bowl.

[TMcGee86]

Psst. Peterson didn't play in the Sugar Bowl.

That's a good point.

I take it back, I hate Chuck.

[colleyvillesooner]

Yeah. Me too.

Im so confused.

[Scott D]

This thread is very interesting.....very very interesting.

But by all means, don't let anything interrupt bashing the coach of a program that appears by the article posted by someone, to be one akin to one coming off of major probation with the kind of attrition they've had either due to injury or quitting/eligibility.

And our offense looked pretty damn vanilla last season while some guy wearing #28 was on the field.

[Big Red Ron]

This thread is very interesting.....very very interesting.

But by all means, don't let anything interrupt bashing the coach of a program that appears by the article posted by someone, to be one akin to one coming off of major probation with the kind of attrition they've had either due to injury or quitting/eligibility.

And our offense looked pretty damn vanilla last season while some guy wearing #28 was on the field.And a WR playing QB but let's not let facts get in the way of a good innuendo.

Chuck was a sorry OC and a good QB coach. Wilson is much more creative in his play calling and clock management. I think Josh is as good or better at coaching QB's, so Chuck leaving OU left us with a net gain in talented coaches.

[colleyvillesooner]

And a WR playing QB but let's not let facts get in the way of a good innuendo.

Chuck was a sorry OC and a good QB coach. Wilson is much more creative in his play calling and clock management. I think Josh is as good or better at coaching QB's, so Chuck leaving OU left us with a net gain in talented coaches.

It's not like he didn't practice at QB for the 3 years before that.

Some people acted like we took Mark Clayton and made him our QB.

[Big Red Ron]

It's not like he didn't practice at QB for the 3 years before that.

Some people acted like we took Mark Clayton and made him our QB.True but if Chuck hadn't have screwed up the Thompson/Bomar deal, Paul would have had a season under his belt as our starter not as a starting WR.

Thompson beat out Bomar in spring and fall practice and has a bad game and gets benched? Stupid. Bomar should have played but making him the starter after the TCU game was dumb. It took Bomar way more that one poor performance to lose his job. And yes, I understand the argument but disagree with it. Potential shouldn't ever beat out head to head competition.

[Scott D]

And a WR playing QB but let's not let facts get in the way of a good innuendo.

Chuck was a sorry OC and a good QB coach. Wilson is much more creative in his play calling and clock management. I think Josh is as good or better at coaching QB's, so Chuck leaving OU left us with a net gain in talented coaches.

explain the holiday bowl.

I'm not sad that Chuck is gone in any way. But with the way this thread has gone, I'm saddened we haven't had a "wow mangino can't coach an offense, just look at how the Kansas offense has gotten worse every year" thread.

[colleyvillesooner]

True but if Chuck hadn't have screwed up the Thompson/Bomar deal, Paul would have had a season under his belt as our starter not as a starting WR.

Thompson beat out Bomar in spring and fall practice and has a bad game and gets benched? Stupid. Bomar should have played but making him the starter after the TCU game was dumb. It took Bomar way more that one poor performance to lose his job. And yes, I understand the argument but disagree with it. Potential shouldn't ever beat out head to head competition.

Yeh, but if Bomar wouldn't have turned out to be such a retard, we'd be singing a different tune. That experience would have made him that much more seasoned last year, and we'd be a pre-season Top 5 team with good odds to make it to the NC game this year. Hindsight is 20/20

[Big Red Ron]

explain the holiday bowl. I have no idea what that has to do with the price of tea in China but....After a rollercoaster of a season, Bomar showed some talent. I would think that given 12 games to work out the kinks Thompson would have had at least as good of a game as Bomar did.

You can go back and look. I've been consistant on this point.

[Big Red Ron]

Yeh, but if Bomar wouldn't have turned out to be such a retard, we'd be singing a different tune. That experience would have made him that much more seasoned last year, and we'd be a pre-season Top 5 team with good odds to make it to the NC game this year. Hindsight is 20/20I'm not using hindsight. We would have been better off in 2006-7 with Thompson and Bomar would be a salty. experienced back up taking the reigns this year.

[colleyvillesooner]

I'm not using hindsight. We would have been better off in 2006-7 with Thompson and Bomar would be a salty. experienced back up taking the reigns this year.

Agree to disagree. I believe Bomar had more upside than Thompson (who I freaking LOVE BTW) and we would be better off this year if it was Rhetts 3rd Year as Starter than his 1st as a Junior. JMO.

But all of that is water under the bridge cause Bomar turned out to be a knucklehead.

How in the hell did you get me to defend Bomar and Long in the same thread. Touché. :D

[Big Red Ron]

Agree to disagree. I believe Bomar had more upside than Thompson (who I freaking LOVE BTW) and we would be better off this year if it was Rhetts 3rd Year as Starter than his 1st as a Junior. JMO.

But all of that is water under the bridge cause Bomar turned out to be a knucklehead.

How in the hell did you get me to defend Bomar and Long in the same thread. Touché. :Dlol, I just think Long gambled on Bomar and lost. There was no need to gamble. We had a perfectly fine QB in Thompson. The upside was down the road. We sacrificed a season on Bomar, when we probably could have had a better season with Thompson.

I think Bomar's situation is a case study on why potential should never beat out Head-to-head competition.

[MikeInNorman]

I was wondering what level of ignorance and pettiness a thread has to reach before generating some sort of "Auto-Lock" response from the board software.

'Cause this one has to be pretty close.

Sigh.

[Scott D]

I have no idea what that has to do with the price of tea in China but....After a rollercoaster of a season, Bomar showed some talent. I would think that given 12 games to work out the kinks Thompson would have had at least as good of a game as Bomar did.

You can go back and look. I've been consistant on this point.

ok I'll do this slowly.


Chuck was a sorry OC and a good QB coach. Wilson is much more creative in his play calling and clock management. I think Josh is as good or better at coaching QB's, so Chuck leaving OU left us with a net gain in talented coaches.


explain the holiday bowl.

[colleyvillesooner]

I was wondering what level of ignorance and pettiness a thread has to reach before generating some sort of "Auto-Lock" response from the board software.

'Cause this one has to be pretty close.

Sigh.

what?

It may not have started out good, I even called it sad, but he last page, page and a half of this thread should be an example of how to debate without being an asshat, taking anything personal and flying off the handle and getting it locked.

[Collier11]

l We sacrificed a season on Bomar, when we probably could have had a better season with Thompson.

I think Bomar's situation is a case study on why potential should never beat out Head-to-head competition.


Sure, our coaches gambled on Bomar and lost...it happens in sports unfortunately and we were the ones to get burned this time. But for you to say we would have had a better season with PT is rediculous, with all respect! Bomar was leaps and bounds better at the end of the season than the beginning, think about ucla and texas and then look at the clutch plays he made against Nebraska, oregon, tech, etc. This kid was going to be a star and the coaches knew that we werent going to win the big 12 so if that is the case, why not go for the upside. If we would have had Bomar last year(minus the bone head, just the football player) I have no doubt in my mind we contend for a natl title. The coaches gambled and lost!

That being said, PT played above himself, played completely selfless, and had a dream season to an extent. He is a great man, a great football player, and a great ambassador!

[Scott D]

I'm still waiting for the "For all you Mark Mangino believers" thread.

[snp]

what?

It may not have started out good, I even called it sad, but he last page, page and a half of this thread should be an example of how to debate without being an asshat, taking anything personal and flying off the handle and getting it locked.

You shut your dumb face!

[Big Red Ron]

ok I'll do this slowly.Eh, didn't Wilson coach and call the plays for the Holiday Bowl?

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Chuck Long = hate
Mark Mangino = OK
Kevin Wilson = like

Just wanted to sum up my thoughts on the subject... as few and far between as they are.

Really though, on Chuck Long, I am more than ok with some of you who want to defend him.

For what it's worth (not much, admittedly) though, you ought to talk at length with Iowa fans about his tenure as a coach there.

Many say not nice things.

[oumartin]

Mark Mangino was able to win a NC as offensive coordinator. He may have gotten conservative and using alot of Leachs plays but gotta give it up to him for that. Chuck had more talented players to work with.

[SoonerJLB]

SCHEDULE
DateOpponentTime/ResultAug 31UTEP (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/TXEP)Lost 27-34 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060831_TXEP@SDGST)Sep 16@Wisconsin (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/WI)Lost 0-14 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060916_SDGST@WI)Sep 23Utah (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/UT)Lost 7-38 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060923_UT@SDGST)Sep 30@San Jose St. (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/SJST)Lost 10-31 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20060930_SDGST@SJST)Oct 7@BYU (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/BYU)Lost 17-47 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061007_SDGST@BYU)Oct 21Air Force (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/AF)Won 19-12 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061021_AF@SDGST)Oct 28Cal Poly (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/CPOLY)Lost 14-16 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061028_CPOLY@SDGST)Nov 4@Wyoming (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/WY)Lost 24-27 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061104_SDGST@WY)Nov 11UNLV (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/UNLV)Won 21-7 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061111_UNLV@SDGST)Nov 18@TCU (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/TCU)Lost 0-52 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061118_SDGST@TCU)Nov 25@New Mexico (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/NM)Lost 14-41 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061125_SDGST@NM)Dec 2Colorado St. (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/page/COST)Won 17-6 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20061202_COST@SDGST)

3-9 folks! I'm so glad he's gone.

They were ranked 113 out of 119 in scoring offense.

Like my ol' Papy used to say, "The proof is in the pudding."

I wonder how many times he called the I-formation, draw play?

Chuckie, definitely not winning over the media and SD State fans around here. My neighbor played for San Diego State in early 90's when they had Faulk. He was excited when CL came in...now..not so much.

[Scott D]

Eh, didn't Wilson coach and call the plays for the Holiday Bowl?

indeed he did, so what was the problem. I mean he wasn't Chuck Long so clearly that offense should have put at least 40 on the board against a team like Oregon who plays in a no defense conference like the Pac-10.

[Big Red Ron]

indeed he did, so what was the problem. I mean he wasn't Chuck Long so clearly that offense should have put at least 40 on the board against a team like Oregon who plays in a no defense conference like the Pac-10.Man, it took you that long to come up with that?

Bomar had his best game evar with Wilson calling the plays. Thanks for playing.:twinkies:

[Scott D]

Didn't take me long at all, I simply haven't been on the board since the last post I made in this thread prior to that. So Bomar had his best game and we STILL couldn't score. Wow, Wilson must be a genius of the invisible points.

Simply admit you have a grudge against a guy who isn't here. I could care less how Chuck Long does at SDSU with or without injuries. Why it's of any importance to you is simply mystifying.

[Big Red Ron]

Didn't take me long at all, I simply haven't been on the board since the last post I made in this thread prior to that. So Bomar had his best game and we STILL couldn't score. Wow, Wilson must be a genius of the invisible points.

Simply admit you have a grudge against a guy who isn't here. I could care less how Chuck Long does at SDSU with or without injuries. Why it's of any importance to you is simply mystifying.Wow, I said Chuck made a mistake regarding Thompson vs. Bomar and then, when we had a REAL OC calling the plays, Bomar looked pretty good. If we would have had Thompson and Wilson in 2006, we would have been better off then and now.

[FlatheadSooner]

I'm still waiting for the "For all you Mark Mangino believers" thread.

Mangino didn't preside in our last two NC losses.

Wilson came up with a game winner in Holiday bowl after a shakey start of a season with a new, young QB.

I don't think anyone is ashamed of CL, and most are quite proud of what he accomplished for OU. Some, like myself, are just questioning his influence during the "nutcutting" times when we had a chance to go for all the marbles.

:pop:

[goingoneight]

Wow, Wilson must be a genius of the invisible points.


To be fair, we did utilize the TE, who dropped every attempt thrown his way. We got a TD off of a DEEP BALL TO THE FULLBACK, Bomar had a career day, and Kejuan freakin' Jones scored a TD (pretty impressive considering AD didn't and we had what, three turnovers on offense?). The reason people got excited about Bomar in 2006, wasn't a year in the system, and it wasn't because he beat that pathetic aggy to shreds, it was because he showed himself to be a legit signal caller, he showed he could finally step it up in a big game, and he showed little things like throwing on the run, hitting WR's in tight coverage (accuracy) and oh yeah... that kid who cost us two losses against TCU and UCLA from fumbling and stumbling around got the GAME MVP award against the 5th-ranked team in the country. I gotta say that in company of players like Matt Leniart/Reggie bush, Vince Young, Marcus Vick... being the 5th-ranked team was saying something... and they got beat ON OFFENSE by the youngest team in NCAA football attending a bowl game.

Bomar's hype was legit... his brain, not so much. And who was calling the plays at this game?

[SoonerDood]

this horse was mamed, beaten, killed, run over, and left to rot many moons ago.

[Scott D]

this horse was mamed, beaten, killed, run over, and left to rot many moons ago.

basically yeah...as in before Chuck Long ever took the SDSU job.

[Scott D]

Wow, I said Chuck made a mistake regarding Thompson vs. Bomar and then, when we had a REAL OC calling the plays, Bomar looked pretty good. If we would have had Thompson and Wilson in 2006, we would have been better off then and now.

And if we'd had Jimbo Fisher instead of Long or Wilson in 2005 maybe we win the Orange Bowl. It's all meaningless conjecture at this point. Seems to me everyone got what they wanted. CL got a head coaching gig, OU fans got rid of the reason the team lost 2 MNC games in a row, and Kevin Wilson got a second shot to be an OC.

[Scott D]

Mangino didn't preside in our last two NC losses.

Wilson came up with a game winner in Holiday bowl after a shakey start of a season with a new, young QB.

I don't think anyone is ashamed of CL, and most are quite proud of what he accomplished for OU. Some, like myself, are just questioning his influence during the "nutcutting" times when we had a chance to go for all the marbles.

:pop:

Yeah, but Mangino's "success" here has become the proverbial chicken and egg. Was it really Mangino that led us to the MNC or was it Heupel who had the freedom to call plays at the LOS. What did 2001 show us? Was it purely coincidental that he took the first bus out of town to Kansas. And why has Kansas gotten more and more inept at moving the football than Mangino is from saying no to seconds or thirds at the Sunday buffet?