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View Full Version : Omar Leary - New PG



Ardmore_Sooner
5/6/2007, 07:30 PM
OU got their point guard according to rivals. No more Jai Lucas, thank God!

http://oklahoma.rivals.com/default.asp?type=4

oumartin
5/6/2007, 08:41 PM
I am a little "leary" to say the least :D

Soonerfan88
5/6/2007, 08:47 PM
I'm sure they will still take Donte Smith once he gets his waiver. But having a back-up isn't a bad thing. ;)

rankin07
5/6/2007, 09:10 PM
wow what happens with tony neysmith then if we take 2 juco pg's? i would think that he would redshirt then unless they try him more at the 2 guard even though we might be stacked there as well

Frozen Sooner
5/6/2007, 09:12 PM
I'm sure they will still take Donte Smith once he gets his waiver. But having a back-up isn't a bad thing. ;)

I'm sure we'd take Smith as well, but Leary is a prety good player in his own right.

Ash
5/6/2007, 09:17 PM
How many schollies do we have left?

It would be nice to get another big man before it's all said and done.

Ardmore_Sooner
5/6/2007, 09:35 PM
1 more I think

proud gonzo
5/6/2007, 09:51 PM
WHAT?!? Why the **** does anybody need a NEW PG? I'm still HERE! :eek: :mad:

oumartin
5/6/2007, 09:52 PM
your "ball handling" skillz are lacking PG! ;)

proud gonzo
5/6/2007, 10:22 PM
like you would know :rolleyes:

oumartin
5/6/2007, 10:27 PM
I just read what they say in the recruiting magazines!

Shneeg11
5/7/2007, 01:14 AM
Leary was a JUCO All-American.... I think he will definitely help us out at the 1 spot

Ash
5/7/2007, 08:30 AM
Leary was a JUCO All-American.... I think he will definitely help us out at the 1 spot

This is good news and I hope he loves being a part of the Sooner family.

I'd still like some more depth in the front court, particularly a defensive presence.

crawfish
5/7/2007, 09:03 AM
Leary was a JUCO All-American.... I think he will definitely help us out at the 1 spot

Wow, a first-teamer, even. The best player on one of the best JUCO teams. Hit 49% from 3-point range. Great pickup, Capel!

Looks like he was heading to Colorado State until their coaching change.

Ardmore_Sooner
5/7/2007, 12:20 PM
Word is he will be signing his LoI today!

mizzOUstu702
5/7/2007, 01:43 PM
I'd still like some more depth in the front court, particularly a defensive presence.


We do probably need one more big man out there, but I think when Clark comes back from injury we'll be set. I hear Blake Griffin's quite the blocker (I think he had a few in the McD's AA game), and Longar's not *too* bad on the defensive end.

william_brasky
5/7/2007, 02:44 PM
Sounds like a great pick-up for us. We definitley need someone who can run the point. I just hope the kid's up to the task and can play the 1 with the D1 boys.

illinisooner
5/7/2007, 03:02 PM
We needed a PG alot more than we needed a big man, this is a great pickup!

Ash
5/7/2007, 03:17 PM
We needed a PG alot more than we needed a big man, this is a great pickup!

This is a great pick-up, but I totally disagree with the first part of your post. Last season we witnessed first hand what no depth in the front court looked like.

soonerndn
5/7/2007, 03:26 PM
stats for Leary:
http://www.njcaa.org/schmain.cfm?sid=4&divid=1&gender=m&slid=2&menu=11&cid=1655&seasonselect=347&schmenu=4&teamid=56296

birddog
5/7/2007, 03:26 PM
we need alot of stuff...

fwsooner22
5/7/2007, 03:40 PM
Going into this recruiting class we needed a power forward, shooting forward, a post man, shooting guard and a point guard. Does that cover it? I am hoping that we do not need a coach. I think we may have that.

Frozen Sooner
5/7/2007, 04:24 PM
I don't think I've ever heard of a "shooting forward." Is that something like a small forward? ;) We actually have a pretty decent one of those in Moose if we can get a good production down low from Blake/Taylor and L2.

OSUAggie
5/7/2007, 04:28 PM
Mike,

Do you think Moose (that's Clark, right?) is going to develop into anything worthwhile?

I only saw him play a time or two last year and I wasn't sure if he'd be able to develop a solid perimeter game or if he was a good enough athlete to play outside...

the_ouskull
5/7/2007, 04:36 PM
Just based on seeing his stats... (I'll check Google and YouTube later...)

He looks like a 3pt shooting point guard who distributes fairly well, and plays at least decent defense. (I don't know what style of D their team plays... If they play a lot of man, then he's a good defender. If they press, trap, or play a lot of zone, then he's decent...)

However, he took almost as many 3's as FT's. We need a dribble/drive point guard who can get into the lane and either finish, or get the ball to someone who will. We need to limit turnovers. Generally, the lower a point guard's FG%, the more often they turn the ball over, and this guy shot 46% against JUCO competition.

If he takes more than 8-10 shots per game, I think he'll hurt next year's team. Same goes for Longar.

the_ouskull

fwsooner22
5/7/2007, 04:42 PM
I don't think I've ever heard of a "shooting forward." Is that something like a small forward? ;) We actually have a pretty decent one of those in Moose if we can get a good production down low from Blake/Taylor and L2.


How about this...........a forward who can shoot the ball.......I could care less if he is big or small......we did not have one last year (maybe due to injury maybe not) and you need at least two.....by my math we need more......the point of my post (not high or low) was we need some more of everything.

I will make a trip to google to see if there is such a term as "shooting forward", I doubt I am the first to come up with that. If so, can I have the patent ????????????

UPDATE: I did not event the term "shooting forward" - Dang It!!!!!!!!!

Frozen Sooner
5/7/2007, 05:50 PM
Mike,

Do you think Moose (that's Clark, right?) is going to develop into anything worthwhile?

I only saw him play a time or two last year and I wasn't sure if he'd be able to develop a solid perimeter game or if he was a good enough athlete to play outside...

Yes, I do. He certainly was able to play at a high level in AAU and high school ball against good competition.

illinisooner
5/7/2007, 06:11 PM
This is a great pick-up, but I totally disagree with the first part of your post. Last season we witnessed first hand what no depth in the front court looked like.

Didn't say we didn't need a big man, but PG was more of a priority...watching Maze, Johnson, and Walker run point last year was pathetic. Both are glaring needs, it's just that PG was a little more urgent than a forward. Getting Rodney Alexander would have helped, but oh well, I think we'll be okay in the front court this year. If you have a bad point guard, it doesn't matter if you go eight deep with talented big men, because they'll never get the ball.

LittleWingSooner
5/7/2007, 07:01 PM
I don't think big man or point guard is a huge priority. Last year we missed more shots at 10 feet and in, especially with our guards, then any team I've ever seen. If they can't make those shots next year then our point guard play won't mean squat. They will be in the same bad situations next year.

Taxman71
5/8/2007, 09:16 AM
Seems like Capel's thought is to bring in several PG's, see who rises to the top and covert one or two to shooting guards. That is alot easier than converting shooting guards in points....which has been done about every year in the last 10 at OU sans Quanna White.

soonervegas
5/8/2007, 11:22 AM
I don't think big man or point guard is a huge priority. Last year we missed more shots at 10 feet and in, especially with our guards, then any team I've ever seen. If they can't make those shots next year then our point guard play won't mean squat. They will be in the same bad situations next year.

Nick...I mean LittleWing, your either joking (and if so bravo) or completely clueless. You are right, we really don't need the two most important positions on the floor. Did you watch the final four this year? Do you watch the final four any year? I think if you do, you will consistently see great point guard and low block play. Everyone has wings in the NCAA.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 11:31 AM
Everyone has wings in the NCAA.

We didn't last year. Especially with Neal not hitting his 3's. Our leading 3 point shooter last year was none other than Tony Crocker at 35%

soonervegas
5/8/2007, 11:41 AM
We didn't last year. Especially with Neal not hitting his 3's. Our leading 3 point shooter last year was none other than Austin Johnson at 34%.

Yeah we did. We had Neal, Crocker, and Godgold. The reason these guys disappear is because we did not have a capable point guard. You put a guy that can run the show with that team....and they make the NCAA tourney/NCAA bubble. I'm not talking superstar....just solid 3rd team All Big-12 type guy.

Austin shot the best because he was left WIDE open due to no one in the Big 12 being afriad of our 5th option.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 11:41 AM
This guy was 64-6 as a starting pg

Ardmore_Sooner
5/8/2007, 11:47 AM
This guy was 64-6 as a starting pg

How dare you present facts and logic! ;)

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 11:48 AM
Yeah we did. We had Neal, Crocker, and Godgold. The reason these guys disappear is because we did not have a capable point guard. You put a guy that can run the show with that team....and they make the NCAA tourney/NCAA bubble. I'm not talking superstar....just solid 3rd team All Big-12 type guy.

Austin shot the best because he was left WIDE open due to no one in the Big 12 being afriad of our 5th option.

I don't agree here, we had open looks all year. I've watched every game that was on TV over and over again. The team last year missed more wide open looks than any other OU team I can remember. Especially the last part of the season. Taylor Griffin was probably the worst I've ever seen at missing wide open lay ups. But Neal had so many wide open 3's that he missed. It seemed like OU made more shots with defenders on them last year than when they were wide open. Neal didn't make an open 3 for most of last year. He made some great 3's with defenders on him though.

birddog
5/8/2007, 11:52 AM
you know why you miss wide open looks? because you don't have enough talent to be consistent. face it nick, we need to upgrade at every position.

how creative was aj with the ball? not very. a pg needs creativity and we haven't had that in a couple of years. you're right we need someone who can hit jumpers but we also need someone who can run our team without being predictable. in other words, aj cannot see the court worth a crap.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 11:56 AM
Leary is an upgrade over maze or johnson. Crocker is an upgrade over neal. Most think that Blake Griffin is a huge upgrade over anyone else we had playing SF other than Carter obviously. If we can get more consistency out of Clark and Longar this year and stay healthy, we are already a better team and that is without any other recruits being considered!

Collier11
5/8/2007, 11:58 AM
I have always thought what we needed is a good pg(Leary) and a scorer(crocker). Now if we can get a good shooter and a defensive presence we will be much better

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 12:13 PM
I don't have any problem with getting another point guard. I don't know if he is the guy at this level or not. We'll see about that. Crocker needs to be consistent. Last year he was flat out bad for most of the season. He did show he can be a player the last few games and in spurts throughout the season. But he has was very bad at other times.

I think we only have 1 guy that I'm confident will give us points almost every night. That's Longar Longar. I'm not sure about the rest of the roster right now.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 01:33 PM
I could have played PG better than AJ, last year. He just doesn't seem to have a high BBall IQ and gets physically dominated on defense.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 01:56 PM
Crocker needs to be consistent. Last year he was flat out bad for most of the season. He did show he can be a player the last few games and in spurts throughout the season. But he has was very bad at other times.

I think we only have 1 guy that I'm confident will give us points almost every night. That's Longar Longar. I'm not sure about the rest of the roster right now.


What team did you watch? Crocker was the only player we had at times, yea he had his freshman moments but he was the only guy we had that could get to the hoop most of the time. Longar Longar cant even make a lay-up 50% of the time, he DID get a ton better last year than the previous year and I hope he gets even better this year cus he has alot of potential. He did have his moments like the Tech game where we saw what he could be, but he needs to be that type of player all the time! The whole team needs to be more consistent, especially guys like Griffin who has a world of talent and no confidence. The way he played against Kansas shows how good he could be and we need that!

Judye
5/8/2007, 02:02 PM
Big Red Ron,
You have posted several posts about A.J. and all in the negative since. I can't imagine if you are a Sooner fan how you could possibly be so negative toward any sooner player. You have no clue about his basketball IQ because
I can promise you he has the highest IQ on the team or he wasn't about to be a starter for Sampson and also Capel. As far as being dominated on defense Sampson said he was the only player he had that could guard the point. Now if you can play better than A.J then I can tell you that school will be out Thursday and he will be in Amarillo for two weeks and if you would like to play a little one on one then bet it could be arranged.
Littlewing you are the classiest and most logical poster on the board that I can see.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 02:10 PM
Big Red Ron,
You have posted several posts about A.J. and all in the negative since. I can't imagine if you are a Sooner fan how you could possibly be so negative toward any sooner player. You have no clue about his basketball IQ because
I can promise you he has the highest IQ on the team or he wasn't about to be a starter for Sampson and also Capel. As far as being dominated on defense Sampson said he was the only player he had that could guard the point. Now if you can play better than A.J then I can tell you that school will be out Thursday and he will be in Amarillo for two weeks and if you would like to play a little one on one then bet it could be arranged.
Littlewing you are the classiest and most logical poster on the board that I can see.




When talking about AJ's D, yes he could guard the quick guys on the perimeter, but he hasnt put on an ounce of muscle since he has been here and guys like Acie Law who are stronger make him look like a little kid. As far as bball IQ goes, we have no way of really knowing but I do know that he is not a good leader and that is what you need from a pg. As far as saying that BRR should play him one on one, that is the exact same level as challenging someone to a fight on a message board, it is pointless and childish. 99% of all D-1 bball players could beat any one of us one on one so why even bring it up.

Ash
5/8/2007, 02:10 PM
Big Red Ron,
You have posted several posts about A.J. and all in the negative since. I can't imagine if you are a Sooner fan how you could possibly be so negative toward any sooner player. You have no clue about his basketball IQ because
I can promise you he has the highest IQ on the team or he wasn't about to be a starter for Sampson and also Capel. As far as being dominated on defense Sampson said he was the only player he had that could guard the point. Now if you can play better than A.J then I can tell you that school will be out Thursday and he will be in Amarillo for two weeks and if you would like to play a little one on one then bet it could be arranged.
Littlewing you are the classiest and most logical poster on the board that I can see.
:pop:

Collier11
5/8/2007, 02:12 PM
Also, his bball IQ had nothing to do with his playing time, he was benched several times this year because as many recruits do, he just hasnt panned out and he played out of necessity. He has his moments but he is not a D1/big 12 bball player. Sometimes recruits dont pan out, that doesnt make BRR a dick for calling him on it. As a fan, if BRR wants to criticize him about his skills then so be it, if he calls him a prick because he is bad at bball then that is another thing. Seperate the two and dont get so defensive!

soonervegas
5/8/2007, 02:25 PM
Littlewing you are the classiest and most logical poster on the board that I can see.

Littlewing also thinks Bob Stoops is a horrible coach......still think the same thing?

william_brasky
5/8/2007, 02:29 PM
Do not feed the LittleWing.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:29 PM
Judye, Judye, Judye :rolleyes:

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:29 PM
Big Red Ron,
You have posted several posts about A.J. and all in the negative since. I can't imagine if you are a Sooner fan how you could possibly be so negative toward any sooner player. You have no clue about his basketball IQ .I am an OU grad and have played BBall for more than 30 years, mostly running the point by the way. Now, I just coach. AJ's decisions on the floor make his BBall IQ evident. He makes poor passes and is a very poor PG. I think he could be a serviceable 2 guard but a point he isn't.

Judye
5/8/2007, 02:44 PM
Well I am not going to get into a ****ing contest with some posters that don't have a clue about basketball. Just so you know I have coached for many years and played and been around basketball all my life so know what I am talking about. He is a D-1 player or again wouldn't have been a starter for both Sampson and Capel. Now he would have started every game for Sampson if it hadn't been for what Sampson said was the worst ankle sprain that he had ever seen. The same would have held true for Capel if the ankle hadn't flared up again near midseason. My thinking is after reading your posts that he must be really terrible and if you are correct I am sure that he would have been sitting at the end of the bench with Kelln. Again you guys have your fun hitting on sooner players but I remember what my old daddy told me "If I don't like the way something is done then do it myself".

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 02:47 PM
What team did you watch? Crocker was the only player we had at times, yea he had his freshman moments but he was the only guy we had that could get to the hoop most of the time. Longar Longar cant even make a lay-up 50% of the time, he DID get a ton better last year than the previous year and I hope he gets even better this year cus he has alot of potential. He did have his moments like the Tech game where we saw what he could be, but he needs to be that type of player all the time! The whole team needs to be more consistent, especially guys like Griffin who has a world of talent and no confidence. The way he played against Kansas shows how good he could be and we need that!

Taylor Griffin was probably the worst we had at making lay ups. Longar was our 2nd most consistent player outside of Carter. Which is sad. Crocker showed potential to be a star at times. But he also had more games where he didn't know how to do anything but travel.

I don't think AJ is the answer at point. But I don't think a point guard helps a team that can't make shots consistently. Longar has the skills to be our most consistent and best scorer. I don't know about Blake Griffin at the college level this year, and Taylor can't make lay-ups. Crocker was too inconsistent last year. He only averaged 8 points a game. But I do agree he has the skill to score some. I hope he shows it this year. AJ may be our most pure 3 point shooter. Godbold plays hard is a good athlete but he won't carry a team scoring. He'll have a game or two where he'll score 15-20 maybe a bit more but he won't do that night in and night out.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:47 PM
I didn't say he wasn't d1. I think he'd be a superstar at the NAIA level but he's a an average d1 player and shouldn't be running the point for OU.

He started for Capel because we didn't have a single point guard on the team that he took over.

AJ was the best option of the guards we had (except for Maze) because he isn't gig enought to play the 2.

Ash
5/8/2007, 02:48 PM
SNIP... Again you guys have your fun hitting on sooner players but I remember what my old daddy told me "If I don't like the way something is done then do it myself".

uhhh...OK...:confused:

Ash
5/8/2007, 02:49 PM
For the record, I played basketball for 50 years, coached for another 60 years, in fact, I'm the one that taught both Sampson and Capel everything they know.

So everyone should believe everything I say about basketball.

Carry on.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 02:50 PM
I disagree with AJ's decision making being bad. I don't think he had many choices at times. He only turned the ball over 1.4 times a game this past season. That's not bad. But he only had about 2.8 assists a game. How many assists a game does he have if Taylor Griffin or Michael Neal hit some of their open shots?

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:51 PM
For the record, I played basketball for 50 years, coached for another 60 years, in fact, I'm the one that taught both Sampson and Capel everything they know.

So everyone should believe everything I say about basketball.

Carry on.Then what are your thoughts on AJ's PG skills?;)

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:52 PM
I disagree with AJ's decision making being bad. I don't think he had many choices at times. He only turned the ball over 1.4 times a game this past season. That's not bad. But he only had about 2.8 assists a game. How many assists a game does he have if Taylor Griffin or Michael Neal hit some of their open shots.Man, we need a smart, fast, good ball handling guy running the point. I see only one of three in AJ's game.

If AJ is the starter at the begining of next season, I'll be shocked.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 02:53 PM
Well I am not going to get into a ****ing contest with some posters that don't have a clue about basketball. Just so you know I have coached for many years and played and been around basketball all my life so know what I am talking about. He is a D-1 player or again wouldn't have been a starter for both Sampson and Capel. Now he would have started every game for Sampson if it hadn't been for what Sampson said was the worst ankle sprain that he had ever seen. The same would have held true for Capel if the ankle hadn't flared up again near midseason. My thinking is after reading your posts that he must be really terrible and if you are correct I am sure that he would have been sitting at the end of the bench with Kelln. Again you guys have your fun hitting on sooner players but I remember what my old daddy told me "If I don't like the way something is done then do it myself".


Many of us have coached and/or played for a large portion of our lives, that doesnt make your bball IQ any greater than ours nor ours than yours. The point is that AJ would no start for Kansas, A&M, Osu, Texas, etc. he is not a big 12 pg. He was recruited as such and like BRR said, he may be alright as a sg even though I dont think he is athletic enough and I have played with him before. He is a decent player that could be an impact player for a smaller D1 school, but not for a BCS conf school and not in a conference where physicality is huge. If he is a friend of yours or whatever based on you knowing where he will be next week I understand you sticking up for him, but no one is saying(that I have seen) that he is a piece of sh*t or a bad guy, he just isnt a good enough pg and that has been prove time and again. maybe his ankle injury slowed his progression, it is highly possible, but that doesnt change anything now cus we cant do anything about that. Why do you think at the end of the year Capel was starting a true freshman who wasnt even supposed to be here and who apparently had a bad attitude though i never saw that? because Maze was a better ball handler, he was quicker, he was more explosive, and made better decisions!!!

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:59 PM
Many of us have coached and/or played for a large portion of our lives, that doesnt make your bball IQ any greater than ours nor ours than yours. The point is that AJ would no start for Kansas, A&M, Osu, Texas, etc. he is not a big 12 pg. He was recruited as such and like BRR said, he may be alright as a sg even though I dont think he is athletic enough and I have played with him before. He is a decent player that could be an impact player for a smaller D1 school, but not for a BCS conf school and not in a conference where physicality is huge. If he is a friend of yours or whatever based on you knowing where he will be next week I understand you sticking up for him, but no one is saying(that I have seen) that he is a piece of sh*t or a bad guy, he just isnt a good enough pg and that has been prove time and again. maybe his ankle injury slowed his progression, it is highly possible, but that doesnt change anything now cus we cant do anything about that. Why do you think at the end of the year Capel was starting a true freshman who wasnt even supposed to be here and who apparently had a bad attitude though i never saw that? because Maze was a better ball handler, he was quicker, he was more explosive, and made better decisions!!!Exactly! He would be an NAIA legend but should not be running the point at one of the Big XII's best basketball programs. Nothing personal, I'm sure he's a nice kid but I hope he rides a lot of pine next year, because we have a true PG playing.

william_brasky
5/8/2007, 02:59 PM
From what I have seen the last 2 years AJ is not D1 point guard material. He's more suited for the 2.

He doesn't have the explosiveness to blow by defenders on the dribble. He's more of a glider. Maybe from the triple threat he could get by defenders, but off the dribble, no way.

He is responsible with the ball. That's good, but in D1 you need a bit more than that.

Just my opinion.

And for the record, I invented the game of basketball alongside Jimmy Naismith. I was at the following photoshoot.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Naismith.jpg/250px-Naismith.jpg

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 02:59 PM
Very well put ^^^

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:00 PM
Maze was not as good as AJ. And the stats show this. He had fewer assists, same amount of turnovers and less points per game. In conference play their numbers are closer but Maze still turned it over more per game, had less assists, and he still had no jump shot. AJ was one of our best 3 point shooters last year. Maze only hit 2 3's on the year.

I think AJ can be PG material in the Div 1 level if he is given a chance with players who can make shots. I'm not sure if we have a lot of that right now.

Ash
5/8/2007, 03:01 PM
I disagree with AJ's decision making being bad. I don't think he had many choices at times. He only turned the ball over 1.4 times a game this past season. That's not bad. But he only had about 2.8 assists a game. How many assists a game does he have if Taylor Griffin or Michael Neal hit some of their open shots?

This is off because you can't just go by the numbers. AJ is a serviceable guard, but he is not a creator. Very rarely was he capable of breaking down a defense and either scoring or distributing on his own. He has his moments, but none of us have seen him consistently perform on a high level at the position - that's not a knock on him, that's just a fact.

I've wondered if health issues have hampered his development, but I've seen little progress on the court from him. And while I wish AJ the best, and hope he gets his fair chance, I don't think we'd be recruiting all of these combo and point guards if we were set at the position.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 03:02 PM
Maze was not as good as AJ. And the stats show this. He had fewer assists, same amount of turnovers and less points per game. In conference play their numbers are closer but Maze still turned it over more per game, and he still had no jump shot. AJ was one of our best 3 point shooters last year. Maze only hit 2 3's on the year.Maze was a true Freshman. He had better raw ability than AJ or he wouldn't have gotten the starts that he did.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:05 PM
This is off because you can't just go by the numbers. AJ is a serviceable guard, but he is not a creator. Very rarely was he capable of breaking down a defense and either scoring or distributing on his own. He has his moments, but none of us have seen him consistently perform on a high level at the position - that's not a knock on him, that's just a fact.

I've wondered if health issues have hampered his development, but I've seen little progress on the court from him. And while I wish AJ the best, and hope he gets his fair chance, I don't think we'd be recruiting all of these combo and point guards if we were set at the position.

I think that's probably accurate. But I can only think of one or two point guards that OU's had the last 15 years that are really creators. Most of the point guards OU's had haven't been flashy or great penetrators or game changers. They've been guys that pass it to open players. White was good at penetrating and dishing, but he also had some guys that created themselves. Hollis Price, McGhee, Ere, even Alexander later in 03 could all create shots themselves.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:07 PM
I think some of you are way off in saying AJ isn't a division 1 player. He obviously is and was pretty highly recruited. I think it's obvious he won't be a point guard at least for full time with this signing. But I think he gets way too unfairly criticized for a lot of the problems that we had last year. And that will show if the same problems start to occur again.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 03:10 PM
AJ also shot 39%, 37% in conf and both are bad numbers. He shot worse from three in conf, didnt even average 2 boards a game, his assist to TO ratio was less than 2/1(40-23) in conf! For a sophomore who played alot as a freshman, these are not good numbers. This proves that he struggled against conf pg's who were mostly bigger, stronger, faster!!!

Ash
5/8/2007, 03:11 PM
I think that's probably accurate. But I can only think of one or two point guards that OU's had the last 15 years that are really creators. Most of the point guards OU's had haven't been flashy or great penetrators or game changers. They've been guys that pass it to open players. White was good at penetrating and dishing, but he also had some guys that created themselves. Hollis Price, McGhee, Ere, even Alexander later in 03 could all create shots themselves.

I wouldn't go that far, but nonetheless, it only highlights how great it is to be able to get a guard that has that ability.

Another thing about AJ, and maybe this has to do with health issues, too -- but a strong 1 guard can make a big difference, and having both strength and speed at the position can make big difference in terms of being able to do things like drive the lane and finish.

Also, defense -- as a team, OU was gritty and good on defense -- but if one of these guys has better quicks and good hands on D -- that's a huge asset at the guard position.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 03:11 PM
I think some of you are way off in saying AJ isn't a division 1 player. He obviously is and was pretty highly recruited. I think it's obvious he won't be a point guard at least for full time with this signing. But I think he gets way too unfairly criticized for a lot of the problems that we had last year. And that will show if the same problems start to occur again.I've been saying he isn't a d1 PG. I think he'd be a decent backup 2 guard or he could be a superstar in a lower class of BBall.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 03:11 PM
I think some of you are way off in saying AJ isn't a division 1 player. He obviously is and was pretty highly recruited. I think it's obvious he won't be a point guard at least for full time with this signing. But I think he gets way too unfairly criticized for a lot of the problems that we had last year. And that will show if the same problems start to occur again.



I dont think anyone is saying the reason we struggled is due to AJ, we all know that we had a million problems last year but to be successful you have to have a PG who makes good decisions and can take the beating of a conf schedule and still be able to perform and he has proven that he cant!

Judye
5/8/2007, 03:12 PM
Well I can tell you he wasn't recruited as a point guard but played the position out of necessity. He was going to play where ever to try and help the team the best he could. Now it wasn't his fault that there wasn't a point guard on campus so don't think he should be blamed. He played shooting guard all his life and is his natural position. Now I am truly hopeing that the new point guard signee is the answer and A.J. can finally get back to where he is most comfortable at the two.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 03:14 PM
Now I am truly hopeing that the new point guard signee is the answer and A.J. can finally get back to where he is most comfortable at the two.


Im not saying this to be rude but his most comfortable place will be coming off the bench as a shooter. Crocker is better than him at the 2, I doubt he isnt going to start over a juco AA at the point. I hope I am wrong and he has a great season, but he will never be more than an average player at OU IMO

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 03:17 PM
Well I can tell you he wasn't recruited as a point guard but played the position out of necessity. He was going to play where ever to try and help the team the best he could. Now it wasn't his fault that there wasn't a point guard on campus so don't think he should be blamed. He played shooting guard all his life and is his natural position. Now I am truly hopeing that the new point guard signee is the answer and A.J. can finally get back to where he is most comfortable at the two.That's what we've been saying all along. He isn't a PG. He will have trouble getting to start at the 2 also, with Crocker and some of the new guys coming in.

I just pray that one of the new guards can play PG better than AJ, especially with the loss of Maze. You could see him get better from the begining of the year. Tough loss for our team.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:18 PM
I don't see point guard as that important. It's as important as every other position is. You can't have a great point guard if you don't have any shooters, and you have only 1 consistent scorer.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 03:21 PM
I don't see point guard as that important. It's as important as every other position is. You can't have a great point guard if you don't have any shooters, and you have only 1 consistent scorer.Man, this is just goofy. The PG is the QB. If you have crappy PG play, no shooter in the world will help. A great PG can find the open man or penetrate and pass out to the open man or dump it inside. I didn't see any of that at PG last year.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 03:22 PM
Do you think even with Durant that Texas woulda been any good without Augustine, how about Joseph Jones and that lithuanian guy at A&M without Law, how bad would Mizzou have been without Hannah! Pg is the most important position on the court hands down, especially in College ball!

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:25 PM
Another thing about AJ, and maybe this has to do with health issues, too -- but a strong 1 guard can make a big difference, and having both strength and speed at the position can make big difference in terms of being able to do things like drive the lane and finish.

I think PG play is a bit overrated. I'm not saying it's not important. Because it is just like every other position. But outside of the elite PGs there are very few PGs that can make a team better to a point where they can make more shots. Most of the problems we had last year were we couldn't hit open shots. If we get average PG play and be a better team next year if we have guys make open shots.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:28 PM
Man, this is just goofy. The PG is the QB. If you have crappy PG play, no shooter in the world will help. A great PG can find the open man or penetrate and pass out to the open man or dump it inside. I didn't see any of that at PG last year.

I disagree with that because basketball is more of a team sport than football on offense.

Here's the way I'll try and kinda compare it. On football on defense there isn't really one position more important than another, Sometimes certain defense have LBs more important or DLines or DBs depending on the system. But if you have guys that make plays everywhere you have a good defense. In basketball if you have guys that make plays you don't need a great or a PG or a great center or a great forward. Right now I don't think we have much of a great presence in scoring.

Ash
5/8/2007, 03:32 PM
I think PG play is a bit overrated. I'm not saying it's not important. Because it is just like every other position. But outside of the elite PGs there are very few PGs that can make a team better to a point where they can make more shots. Most of the problems we had last year were we couldn't hit open shots. If we get average PG play and be a better team next year if we have guys make open shots.

This is like saying the quarterback isn't that important. Of course you need talent all around, but the point runs the show. A good point is indispensable.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 03:39 PM
I disagree with that because basketball is more of a team sport than football on offense.




This is the dumbest quote I have ever seen, football is the ultimate team sport!!!

Judye
5/8/2007, 03:43 PM
Guess what littlewing is trying to say is that a quarterback is really important but if the receivers can't catch a pass then the rateing and success of the quarterback aren't very good. Same with a point guard if whom ever the point passes the ball to if they can't make a layup or can't hit a wide open three the point guard stats aren't going to be very good. Think most will agree that our overall team shooting percentage wasn't very high.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:49 PM
This is the dumbest quote I have ever seen, football is the ultimate team sport!!!

I'm not saying football isn't a team sport. But it's not the ultimate team sport IMO. It's much more individually driven then basketball.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:52 PM
Guess what littlewing is trying to say is that a quarterback is really important but if the receivers can't catch a pass then the rateing and success of the quarterback aren't very good. Same with a point guard if whom ever the point passes the ball to if they can't make a layup or can't hit a wide open three the point guard stats aren't going to be very good. Think most will agree that our overall team shooting percentage wasn't very high.

It's a lot easier to catch a pass though.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:53 PM
I'm not saying football isn't a team sport. But it's not the ultimate team sport IMO. It's much more individually driven then basketball.

I wrote this not thinking about the NBA.

OSUAggie
5/8/2007, 03:56 PM
...The point is that AJ would no start for Kansas, A&M, Osu, Texas, etc. he is not a big 12 pg. ...

This is all that needs to be said about Johnson. You can't be outclassed at PG against everyone you play (that matters within the conference) and expect to move up in the standings.

This is also why Capel is signing PG's in this class, to be sure he'll have a good player at that position for the future, because that player isn't on campus.

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 03:59 PM
This is all that needs to be said about Johnson. You can't be outclassed at PG against everyone you play (that matters within the conference) and expect to move up in the standings.

This is also why Capel is signing PG's in this class, to be sure he'll have a good player at that position for the future, because that player isn't on campus.

OSU is basically outclassed at PG also. But when OU had Michael Johnson they were outclassed at PG by everyone yet they stood their own. They won the Big 12 regular season with Terrell Everett as the PG.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 03:59 PM
This is all that needs to be said about Johnson. You can't be outclassed at PG against everyone you play (that matters within the conference) and expect to move up in the standings.

This is also why Capel is signing PG's in this class, to be sure he'll have a good player at that position for the future, because that player isn't on campus.


How dare you try and agree with me, now I look like an idiot!!!!! ;)

OSUAggie
5/8/2007, 04:08 PM
OSU is basically outclassed at PG also. But when OU had Michael Johnson they were outclassed at PG by everyone yet they stood their own. They won the Big 12 regular season with Terrell Everett as the PG.

Just because Terrell Everett wasn't a true PG doesn't mean he wasn't effective in that role.

I believe BRR has been saying that you guys need a PG that can create, and Everett could certainly do that. There are obviously many types of PG's, and Everett was very good off the dribble with penetration that resulted in either him scoring or finding Bookout/Gray.

OSU has a good PG. He just needs to get in shape so he can be a good PG for 30 minutes/game instead of 20.

Collier11
5/8/2007, 04:11 PM
Say what you want about him not being in shape and making bad decisions, but Byron Eaton was the only player that played hard for that team every single game. he busted his azz and I respect him for that!!!

OSUAggie
5/8/2007, 04:14 PM
I'm an Eaton fan. I think Sean should leave him out there whether or not he's in shape.

Then again, Sean probably knows a bit more than me.

the_ouskull
5/8/2007, 04:54 PM
I think some of you are way off in saying AJ isn't a division 1 player. He obviously is and was pretty highly recruited.

So was Ron Powlus.


Many of us have coached and/or played for a large portion of our lives, that doesnt make your bball IQ any greater than ours nor ours than yours.

I disagree. My basketball IQ runs circles around pretty much the entire rest of the planet's... and even some alien galaxies. The last time outer space tried to match my basketball IQ, I sent the aliens back crying, with their antennae tucked between their quarks.

I later sold the rights to Hollywood, who took some "creative liberties," and called the movie "Space Jam."

:D

But seriously, I'll lay it on the table with anybody else's "knowledge."

1) I do not think that AJ is a D1 capable point guard.
2) I do not think that AJ is a D1 capable 2 guard either.
3) I DO think that he can be a great bench player; a complementary player... but, I am not going to sit here, with the proof being in the pudding like wafers and 'naners, having watched him play for two full years now, and watch people continue to make excuses for him the same way that people do for Longar.

4) Longar isn't still "learning the game" in my book. He's a freaking senior. He needs to be a team leader, and a stalwart on defense, if not a high-percentage option on offense. He is neither. He has improved his post passing, and that is, basically, the only improvement in his game. Almost every other stat, even though they HAVE increased, have increased at approximately the same ratio as his playing time has. I know that he's gotten better as a player, but it is not NEARLY the improvement that everybody thinks that it is, based solely on his stats...

What he HAS improved, a great deal? Turnovers. (Yeah, who knew?)

5) We need to limit our turnovers, even if we go to the most boring offense ever. Guards ONLY shoot open jumpers. Posts always pass out of double-teams. Penetration needs to result in a trip to the FT line, a layup, or both; not a pass. That's our game next season, until Longar proves, post-wise, that he can handle the ball with his back to the basket, pass it out of the post if necessary, and can handle a double-team, even without passing, without it guaranteeing a turnover every single f'ing time.

6) Our guards need to move more without the ball, with our bigs (3's, 4's, and 5's) setting more picks in the paint. We have an athletic backcourt right now, and, if we can use their athleticism to get them higher percentage shots based on how strong our frontcourt is (ie - picks, etc...) then they can use that athleticism where we're really going to need it... defense.

7) We've got to be able to play a smart, efficient, trapping zone that allows us to protect the long ball and play the boards well, and we've got to be able to play tough man-to-man, being able to switch on all screens... (Longar has the footspeed to force a guard off of a hard pick, even if he'd have to get back REALLY quick..)

So, that's my take on the next season...

Oh, and I think that Leary's size is going to hurt us, defensively, so, unless he's hella quick and is a good, smart, help defender, then we're going to see more of AJ than most of the people on this thread care to. You can't discount the record that his team put up while he was there. It's impressive. But, to me, more impressive was this quote he had after a March game in which they blew out the No 1 team...

"All year I've felt that I could be a special type of leader to this team," Leary said. "We have so much talent on this team that I realize when I can step up and make a couple shots in a row for my team, or play the role getting everyone else involved. I was feeling it and I wanted to ride it out as long as I could."

He's not going to be able to get by solely on athleticism or talent. At this level, you have to rely on both, in droves, at the same time. (Two chicks at the same time...) If he's able to do this, and play with ^^^ kind of fire, then let me be the first to welcome him to the Crimson and Cream... but I still think he's gonna hurt us on defense. No matter what happens, I'll be cheering and analyzing. That never stops...

the_ouskull

Judye
5/8/2007, 06:09 PM
Guess all I can say to the momo-jumbo is that A.J. has two years to prove you wrong and Longar has one year.

okienole3
5/8/2007, 06:13 PM
I don't see point guard as that important. It's as important as every other position is. You can't have a great point guard if you don't have any shooters, and you have only 1 consistent scorer.

http://www.maj.com/gallery/soonerpsycho/Fark/nickzepp1.jpg


Welcome back Nick!!

Collier11
5/8/2007, 06:49 PM
Guess all I can say to the momo-jumbo is that A.J. has two years to prove you wrong and Longar has one year.



not sure what momo-jumbo is but AJ as to improve in order to have the oppurtunity to prove us wrong! Atleast Longar has improved. I would be willing to bet that AJ doesnt see more than 15mpg this year

Collier11
5/8/2007, 06:50 PM
http://www.maj.com/gallery/soonerpsycho/Fark/nickzepp1.jpg


Welcome back Nick!!


Derka Derka Derka!!!

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 07:11 PM
Guess all I can say to the momo-jumbo is that A.J. has two years to prove you wrong and Longar has one year.Okay, Mrs. Johnson.

For the record, I hope AJ gets better and becomes a solid contributor to our team. Right now he's got a Loooooong way to go.

Judye
5/8/2007, 07:58 PM
Ron, I can see lotttts of improvement from the first year to the next. Can You? Season GP-GS MIN FG'S 3F-Gs FTs REB A TO ST BL PTS
2006 24-13 427 25-96 14-55 11-19 49 45 38 21 8 75 2007 31-23 732 78-198 37-107 25-27 57 87 44 26 23 218

And sorry but you are wrong again. I am not Mrs. Johnson, sure she has better things to do than hang around message boards downgrading Ou players.

Big Red Ron
5/8/2007, 08:04 PM
Yawn.

william_brasky
5/8/2007, 08:14 PM
http://www.maj.com/gallery/soonerpsycho/Fark/nickzepp1.jpg


Welcome back Nick!!


I called this a month and a half ago: http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90958

birddog
5/8/2007, 09:43 PM
nick isn't going to let this one go. man, i've never agreed with one thing that guy's said.

the_ouskull
5/8/2007, 10:28 PM
Ron, I can see lotttts of improvement from the first year to the next. Can You? Season GP-GS MIN FG'S 3F-Gs FTs REB A TO ST BL PTS
2006 24-13 427 25-96 14-55 11-19 49 45 38 21 8 75 2007 31-23 732 78-198 37-107 25-27 57 87 44 26 23 218

If you want to prove something by using statistics, that's fine, but don't prove that you don't know how to type out statistics. Also, if you're going to use stats to make a comparison from one year to the next, you should probably post stats from more than one year.

Or just post the relevant ones...

Like these:

3.0 ppg to 7.0 ppg. This is from a STARTING point guard.
2.0 rpg to 1.8 rpg. Not an improvement.
1.8 apg to 2.8 apg. Good. There's an improvement. By the time he's a senior, maybe he'll be averaging almost 5 per.
1.5 to 1.4 TO per. But, with the concurrent improvement in his assist/turnover ratio, it'll have to do.

His major improvements are his shooting percentages. Although he still shoots an absolutely miserable and embarassing .394 from the field, it IS an improvement from the 26% he shot his freshman year. His FT percentage is officially impressive. 92.6% this year, up about 35% from the year before. His 3pt percentage also improved, almost 9% to 34.6%, but it's still not good. Especially considering he's almost a better 3pt shooter than he is a non-3, that's not good at all.

Basically, he's mediocre on defense, playing too many angles and not enough body, he's a horrible shooter, and only does a moderate job of handling and distributing the basketball. He's a liability due to his shooting, and he doesn't attack the rim often enough, or effectively enough, to take advantage of his awesome FT%. He attacked the rim a lot earlier in the year, especially during the exhibititon season, when he was able to do so physically due to his athletic advantage. Once he wasn't able to do that... well, I'll put it this way:

There were 21 games last year in which he didn't attempt a single FT. In our last 9 games, he only attempted a total of 2, both of them coming in the late-season loss to K-State.

If our starting point guard isn't able to get into the paint and either drop more passes off, kick the ball back out to spot-up shooters, or get fouled and go to the line, then, unless he's a Bruce Bowen-type defensive stopper, he's a liability. I hope that AJ comes out this season, attacking the rim as fearlessly as he did in High School, but, until he gets physically stronger, he's not going to be able to do that... and his shot isn't reliable enough to give him the space he needs to be able to attack.

...but that's just my opinion.

the_ouskull

LittleWingSooner
5/8/2007, 10:30 PM
By the time he's a senior, maybe he'll be averaging almost 5 per.

White never averaged 5 assists per game over a season. I doubt any PG we have next year averages that much.

the_ouskull
5/8/2007, 10:33 PM
Just because Terrell Everett wasn't a true PG doesn't mean he wasn't effective in that role.

Yeah, until some agent or friend of an agent or "connected family member" or someone got into his ear and told him that, if he could prove that he could score, NBA teams would be taking a look at him. I've had the exact same number of NBA teams take a look at me... 0... as Terrell Everett.

He was "effective in that role" because we had nobody else that was willing to play it or capable of doing so. He was able to handle the ball. The shame was that, unless it was "pretty," he wasn't able to pass it. He also couldn't feed the post with a freakin' spoon and a bucket.

the_ouskull

the_ouskull
5/8/2007, 10:34 PM
White never averaged 5 assists per game over a season. I doubt any PG we have next year averages that much.

Yeah dude... I know... Promise.

the_ouskull