McCauley Culkin is a wimp.

[crawfish]

THIS girl knows how to get rid of criminals who break into her house!

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185167


Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez 23 and Enrico Garza 26, probably believed they would easily overpower a home alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things, they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine. Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buck shot from the 11 year olds knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals. When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. The victim, 50 year old David Burien, was not so lucky as he died from stab wounds to the chest.

[yermom]

i saw this posted somewhere else and they were trying to verify it, there are some things that are a little weird with the story

[sooner_born_1960]

Good for her. I hope helping society out doesn't leave her traumatized.

[Boomer.....]

:eek: Don't mess with her.

[sooner_born_1960]

Well, even if it's fake, it's a good story. With a nice happy ending.

[crawfish]

i saw this posted somewhere else and they were trying to verify it, there are some things that are a little weird with the story

I guess I saw it too early on DIGG. It's been outed as a hoax there.

[yermom]

it's odd that it's not on any real news source

also it mentions the minor by name as well as the model of gun she used, which are both kinda odd

[crawfish]

it's odd that it's not on any real news source

also it mentions the minor by name as well as the model of gun she used, which are both kinda odd

Yeah, my mistake. Not the first time I've been burned by thinking something was valid just because it made the front page of Digg..

[yermom]

you could work for CBS ;)

[rufnek05]

you could work for CBS ;)


damn you beat me to it

[skycat]

Don't be modest crawfish.

This one is all yours.;)

[SoonerStormchaser]

Two less illegals I have to pay for...good.

[Jerk]

damnit. Yall had my hopes up.

[XingTheRubicon]

Very similar to most "thank God there was a gun" stories. Make believe.

[Jerk]

Very similar to most "thank God there was a gun" stories. Make believe.

Yeah, that must be why Washington D.C., New York City, and California have lower crime rates than concealed carry states.:rolleyes:

[Hamhock]

I don't get it. Mcauley Culkin wasn't mentioned anywhere in the story.

[yermom]

I don't get it. Mcauley Culkin wasn't mentioned anywhere in the story.

http://www.wayodd.com/funny-pictures2/funny-pictures-home-alone-with-mj-odh.jpg

[XingTheRubicon]

Yeah, that must be why Washington D.C., New York City, and California have lower crime rates than concealed carry states.:rolleyes:



Now all we have to do is educate every other industrialized country on the planet as to how they can decrease their gun related crimes...

[XingTheRubicon]

Now all we have to do is educate every other industrialized country on the planet as to how they can decrease their gun related crimes...


Wait, hold on just a minute. I'm still trying to find one other industrialized nation on Earth that is worse than our best concealed carry state in guns crimes per capita.


Hold on...

[XingTheRubicon]

any minute now

[XingTheRubicon]

gotta give the kids a bath

[Jerk]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

England.

It doesn't matter anyway. I'm not giving mine up, and neither will millions of others.

[Jerk]

You probably didn't know that America's non-firearm murder rate (knifings, poisonings, beatings) is 3x higher than any other industrialized country on the planet.

Think about that.

[XingTheRubicon]

You probably didn't know that America's non-firearm murder rate (knifings, poisonings, beatings) is 3x higher than any other industrialized country on the planet.

Think about that.

Good point....and by good point, I mean look at this

U.S. gun deaths per 100,000
14.24

England gun deaths per 100,000
0.41

That's 35x


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166

[Jerk]

Gun deaths? Like this?

http://www.wjbf.com/midatlantic/jbf/news_index.apx.-content-articles-JBF-2007-05-02-0002.html

Take away the inner city street gangs, and we would have very little crime.

[Jerk]

Why don't you post a sign on your front door that says "Gun free home"

You won't.

Because you know that anyone could walk right in your house and you couldn't do jack about it.

[sooneron]

Does Tulsa not have concealed carry?

[XingTheRubicon]

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun deaths in the US.

In 1999, there were 134 justifiable homicide (home protection) deaths.




Here's a riddle for you...


There's 4 guns up for firearm of the year.

1st gun: Mosteller riot gun made of pure gold that shoots armed midgets from the barrell.

2nd gun: Glock 19 that makes your home more safe.

3rd gun: AK 47 that's invisible in every state except for West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky.

4th gun: S&W 342PD snub nose



Which gun wins firearm of the year?


The Smith and Wesson



Why?




Because the other 3 are figments of your imagination.

[Octavian]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6271/elmer008ky5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Jerk]

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun deaths in the US.

In 1999, there were 134 justifiable homicide (home protection) deaths.




Here's a riddle for you...


There's 4 guns up for firearm of the year.

1st gun: Mosteller riot gun made of pure gold that shoots armed midgets from the barrell.

2nd gun: Glock 19 that makes your home more safe.

3rd gun: AK 47 that's invisible in every state except for West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky.

4th gun: S&W 342PD snub nose



Which gun wins firearm of the year?


The Smith and Wesson



Why?




Because the other 3 are figments of your imagination.
I think the idea of America ever disarming IS the figment of your imagination. And the thought that criminals would comply with a gun ban is more like insanity (You're probably not stupid enough to really believe that, so, who is the real target of your agenda?)

Everytime you bring up Britain in your argument, I can always bring up Switzerland, where every male is required to own a machine gun. I'd say their crime is much less than the U.K. In fact, I'd wager on it.

Anyway, the fun will start when you send your goons door-to-door to wipe their arse with the Bill of Rights.

Most cops I know aren't going to do it, and may shoot at those who do.

80 million gun owners....if 1/10 fight back, that's 8,000,000.

You think Iraq is bad?

[Hamhock]

I think the idea of America ever disarming IS the figment of your imagination. And the thought that criminals would comply with a gun ban is more like insanity (You're probably not stupid enough to really believe that, so, who is the real target of your agenda?)

Everytime you bring up Britain in your argument, I can always bring up Switzerland, where every male is required to own a machine gun. I'd say their crime is much less than the U.K. In fact, I'd wager on it.

Anyway, the fun will start when you send your goons door-to-door to wipe their arse with the Bill of Rights.

Most cops I know aren't going to do it, and may shoot at those who do.

80 million gun owners....if 1/10 fight back, that's 8,000,000.

You think Iraq is bad?

werd

[Hamhock]

http://www.wayodd.com/funny-pictures2/funny-pictures-home-alone-with-mj-odh.jpg


i shoulda used the ;)

[Preservation Parcels]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

"25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law required firearms for residents

...In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000..."

I still believe it comes down to hearts, not just hardware.

[XingTheRubicon]

I think the idea of America ever disarming IS the figment of your imagination. And the thought that criminals would comply with a gun ban is more like insanity (You're probably not stupid enough to really believe that, so, who is the real target of your agenda?)

Everytime you bring up Britain in your argument, I can always bring up Switzerland, where every male is required to own a machine gun. I'd say their crime is much less than the U.K. In fact, I'd wager on it.

Anyway, the fun will start when you send your goons door-to-door to wipe their arse with the Bill of Rights.

Most cops I know aren't going to do it, and may shoot at those who do.

80 million gun owners....if 1/10 fight back, that's 8,000,000.

You think Iraq is bad?



No comment on the stats in the quoted post, I guess?


A home with a handgun is 22 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder.

Now, because of this fact, I still do not believe in any way, that your guns should be taken by force. Maybe if there could be a class added to high school curriculum that can explain that when John Wayne/Bruce Willis/Marky Mark kill the bad guy, that there's a guy yelling cut and it's make believe. Like the Wizard of Oz with the flying monkeys. Not real.

[XingTheRubicon]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

"25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law required firearms for residents

...In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000..."

I still believe it comes down to hearts, not just hardware.

My personal favorite is the hick that says boastfully, "My Grandad smoked 2 packs a day, ate gravy with every meal and lived to be 94!"

Well good why don't you smoke 3 packs a day and sprinkle thallium on your cereal and live to be a 120...


I'll go by the stats of the ENTIRE US, not some place in BFE.

By the way, just for fun, go ahead and look up the number of gun death teen suicides in each town since 1982.

[Hamhock]

By the way, just for fun, go ahead and look up the number of gun death teen suicides in each town since 1982.


yes, becuase if the teens didn't have a gun, they could have never figured out another way to kill themselves.

i bet if you study a town with cars and a town without cars you'll find that fewer people walked to the grocery store in the town without cars.

[XingTheRubicon]

yes, becuase if the teens didn't have a gun, they could have never figured out another way to kill themselves.

i bet if you study a town with cars and a town without cars you'll find that fewer people walked to the grocery store in the town without cars.

Nope, you're completely wrong. It's more than 3 to 1 suicide by gun for teens than all other methods combined. The homes that have pills, ropes, knives, and poison and no guns are 5 times less likely to have a suicide.

It is what it is.

[Hamhock]

Nope, you're completely wrong. It's more than 3 to 1 suicide by gun for teens than all other methods combined.

of course it is. if i'm looking for a method, i'm gonna choose the easiest one.


The homes that have pills, ropes, knives, and poison and no guns are 5 times less likely to have a suicide.

It is what it is.

i doubt that presence/absence of a firearm is the only thing different in these households.

where did you get these stats?

[XingTheRubicon]

of course it is. if i'm looking for a method, i'm gonna choose the easiest one.

where did you get these stats?

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166

CDC has the same figures.



i doubt that presence/absence of a firearm is the only thing different in these households.

You're probably right, a parent that thinks it's a good idea to have hand held human being killing apparatus in the home probably makes other "keen" decisions as well.

[yermom]

you could always move to the UK and have the nanny state take care of you

[Hamhock]

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166

CDC has the same figures.



.


i can't seem to find the statistic you are quoting about suicide in homes without guns.

while looking, i did find several sources that claimed the exact opposite:



Discussion
Gun suicides outnumber gun homicides. In 1999, there were 16,599 gun suicides compared to 10,828 firearm homicides (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control). Guns were the most common method of suicide (57% in 1999).

If we could magically make all guns disappear, would the number of suicides decrease? Probably not. Excerpted from Dr. Gary Kleck's, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control (p 285, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York 1997):

The full body of relevant studies indicates that firearm availability measures are significantly and positively associated with rates of firearm suicide, but have no significant association with rates of total suicide.
Of thirteen studies, nine found a significant association between gun levels and rates of gun suicide, but only one found a significant association between gun levels and rates of total suicides. The only study to find a measure of "gun availability" significantly associated with total suicide...used a measure of gun availability known to be invalid.

This pattern of results supports the view that where guns are less common, there is complete substitution of other methods of suicide, and that, while gun levels influence the choice of suicide method, they have no effect on the number of people who die in suicides.

As further evidence that gun ownership is not correlated with total suicide rates see international violent death rate table. For example, Japan, where gun ownership is extremely low (less than 1% of households), total suicide is higher than in a high-gun ownership country like the United States.
From 1972 to 1995 the per capita gun stock in the U. S. increased by more than 50%. Gary Kleck in Targeting Guns (p 265) comments on this huge increase: "This change might be viewed as a sort of inadvertent natural experiment, in which Americans launched a massive and unprecedented civilian armaments program, probably the largest in world history. During this same period, the U.S. suicide rate was virtually constant, fluctuating only slightly within the narrow range from 11.8 to 13.0 suicides per 100,000 population...At most...this huge increase in the gun stock might have caused a mild increase in the percentage of suicides committed with guns, which shifted from 53.3 in 1972 to 60.3 in 1994, and thus a mild corresponding increase in the gun suicide rate." (See gun supply chart).

In 1972 the suicide rate was 11.9 per 100,000. After this "arms build-up" the total suicide rate remained unchanged at 11.9 in 1995..

[Hamhock]

by the way, when you outlaw guns, what will be your solution when the study links suicide to car exhaust/rubber hose ownership?

[XingTheRubicon]

See if you can find it now.


FIREARM FACTS

Firearms are so pervasive in America that sometimes we forget the price we pay for all-too-easy access to guns. Consider some basic facts...

Currently, an estimated 39% of households have a gun, while 24% have a handgun.[1]

There are approximately 192 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. - 65 million of which are handguns. [2]

Approximately 29% of adults personally own a firearm, and 18% personally own a handgun. [3]

In 1998, 30,708 people in the United States died from firearm-related deaths - 12,102 (39%) of those were murdered; 17,424 (57%) were suicides; 866 (3%) were accidents; and in 316 (1%) the intent was unknown. [4]

In 1998, firearms were used in more than 2 out of 3 murders committed in the U.S. Handguns were used in 51% of all murders.[5]

In 1998, 8 out of 10 of those murdered with firearms were murdered with handguns.[6]

In 1999, there were only 134 justifiable handgun homicides[7] by private citizens in the United States.[8]

Thinking of buying a gun to protect your home? You may want to remember that...

Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense.[9]

The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home.[10]

The presence of a gun in the home increases the risk of suicide fivefold.[11]

Guns are a blight upon our young people. For instance...

In 1998, firearm homicide was the leading cause of death for black males ages 15-34. [12]

In 1998, gunshot wounds were the second leading cause of injury death for men and women 10-24 years of age - second only to motor vehicle crashes.[13]

In 1997, the firearm injury death rate among males 15-24 years of age was 42% higher than the motor vehicle traffic injury death rate.[14]

In 1998, more than 10 children and teenagers, ages 19 and under, were killed with guns everyday. [15]

In 1998, 77% of murdered Juveniles age 13-19 were killed with a firearm.[16]

Each year during 1993 through 1997, an average of 1,621 murderers who had not reached their 18th birthdays took someone's life with a gun.[17]

From 1993 through 1997, an average of 1,409 children and teenagers took their own lives with guns each year. [18]

Surprised? You shouldn't be, because...

In 1998, 30,708 Americans were killed with firearms - in homicides, suicides and accidents. In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,148 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War. [19]

In 1998 alone, licensed firearms dealers sold an estimated 4.4 million guns, 1.7 million of which were handguns.[20]

Sales of handguns per adult are now roughly twice the level of 40 years ago.[21]

Of all accidental fatalities involving firearms, 71% involve handguns.[22]

Finally, you may want to consider one more statistic...

In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand, 15 in Japan, 30 in Great Britain, 106 in Canada, 213 in Germany and 9,390 in the United States.[23]


11 source: New England Journal of Medicine

http://www.bradycenter.org/stop2/facts/fs2.php

[1stTimeCaller]

always there for a good laugh. Thanks, buddy. Hopefully XTR can make this thread more entertaining than he did the '**** you Stephen McGee' thread.

[XingTheRubicon]

always there for a good laugh. Thanks, buddy. Hopefully XTR can make this thread more entertaining than he did the '**** you Stephen McGee' thread.

I was kind of hoping you would be busy doing crunches during that thread.


wait

[Hamhock]

so, do you think if we eliminate guns, we'll have less suicide?

[1stTimeCaller]

I was too busy practicing with my See Spot Run books.

I'll let you borrow them when I'm done with them.
;)

[yermom]

yeah, because Brady is the most level headed source to get info from...

[XingTheRubicon]

yeah, because Brady is the most level headed source to get info from...

The source in the Brady page was The New England Journal of Medicine.

I'm sure you go by Huntin' and Killin' .org ;)

[royalfan5]

I think a good compromise would be that everybody gets a crossbow and as many arrows as they want.

[yermom]

The source in the Brady page was The New England Journal of Medicine.

I'm sure you go by Huntin' and Killin' .org ;)

yeah, i'm sure they are a bastion of fairness for gun info as well

are you trying to correlate a gun in the house with wanting to off yourself?

it's not like there is a shortage of ways to do it. it's not like taking the gun out of the house cures depression or whatever

[Hamhock]

VII. Suicide
The Japanese experience does not seem to support the hypothesis than fewer guns means fewer suicides. While the Japanese gun suicide rate is one-fiftieth of America's, the overall suicide rate is nearly twice as high as America's.[119] Teenage suicide is 30 per cent more frequent in Japan than America. Every day in Japan, two Japanese under 20 years old kill themselves.[120]

Japan also suffers from double or multiple suicides, shinju. Parents bent on suicide take their children with them, at the rate of one per day, in oyako-shinju. In fact, 17 per cent of all Japanese officially defined as homicide victims are children killed by suicidal parents.[121] One reason that the official Japanese homicide rate is so low is that if a Japanese woman slits her children's throats and then kills herself, police statistics sometimes record it as a family suicide, rather than a sensational murder. Thus, Japan's tight family structures, which keep the overall crime rate low, are not unalloyed blessings.

Of the many reasons suggested by researchers for the high Japanese suicide rate, one of the most startling is weapons control. Japanese scholars Mamon Iga and Kichinosuke Tatai argue that one reason Japan has a suicide problem is that people have little sympathy for (p.39)suicide victims. Iga and Tatai suggest that the lack of sympathy (and hence the lack of social will to deal with a high suicide rate) is based the Japanese' feelings of insecurity and consequent lack of empathy. They trace the lack of empathy to a 'dread of power'. That dread is caused in part by the awareness that a person cannot count on others for help against violence or against authority. In addition, say Iga and Tatai, the dread of power stems from the people being forbidden to possess swords or firearms for self-defense.[122]

Stated another way, firearms prohibition is part of a culture that subordinates the individual to society. When the individual finds himself not fitting into social expectations, self-destruction may often seem appropriate, since in a conflict between the individual and society, society is, by definition, always right. It is interesting to note that the overall violent death rates (counting both murders and suicides) in many of the developed countries are approximately the same. America has a high murder rate, but a relatively low suicide rate. Japan and Switzerland have very low murder rates, but suicide rates twice the American level. Seymour Martin Lipset notes the high suicide rates in Japan and western European countries and speculates that 'psychopaths there turn it on themselves'.[123]




eliminating guns seems to be doing a lot for the japanese suicide rate

[XingTheRubicon]

eliminating guns seems to be doing a lot for the japanese suicide rate

Canada has more guns per capita than the US and a tiny fraction of gun related deaths. You're right, it's not the guns, let's sell them at convenience stores right next to the candy bars.

[royalfan5]

eliminating guns seems to be doing a lot for the japanese suicide rate
I would guess that the Japanese culture has a lot to do with the suicide rate though.

[crawfish]

You guys are really making me pay for posting that bogus story. :mad:

[yermom]

it's all Crawfish's fault!!11!1

[XingTheRubicon]

yeah, i'm sure they are a bastion of fairness for gun info as well

are you trying to correlate a gun in the house with wanting to off yourself?

it's not like there is a shortage of ways to do it. it's not like taking the gun out of the house cures depression or whatever


Good gawd, do you really have to be that crafty to figure this out?



x number of US teens reach the despair level of suicide each year

for whatever reason, US teens prefer handguns to off themselves, maybe they don't know how many pills to take, hanging themselves is too complicated (not everyone has an exposed crossbeam handy like that old fart in Shawshank)

With a gun in the home, for some, it turns from a "rock bottom day" to the back of your head going Jackson Pollock all over the wall.


It's not really that complicated.

[yermom]

so with no gun, they decide that they want to live and decide to go for a walk instead?

[XingTheRubicon]

so with no gun, they decide that they want to live and decide to go for a walk instead?

No, they ALL kill themselves another way, the New England Journal of Medicine and the CDC are lying.





Here's a question to ponder

GROUP A 100,000 homes in suburban Chicago have a handgun



GROUP B 100,000 homes in suburban Chicago do not have a handgun



After 20 years, which group of homes would have more suicides?


Group A or Group B



Just answer the question.


Group A or Group B

[Hamhock]

No, they ALL kill themselves another way, the New England Journal of Medicine and the CDC are lying.





Here's a question to ponder

GROUP A 100,000 homes in suburban Chicago have a handgun



GROUP B 100,000 homes in suburban Chicago do not have a handgun



After 20 years, which group of homes would have more suicides?


Group A or Group B



Just answer the question.


Group A or Group B

Group B

How is this relevant to my right to own a handgun?

[yermom]

No, they ALL kill themselves another way, the New England Journal of Medicine and the CDC are lying.





Here's a question to ponder

GROUP A 100,000 homes in suburban Chicago have a handgun



GROUP B 100,000 homes in suburban Chicago do not have a handgun



After 20 years, which group of homes would have more suicides?


Group A or Group B



Just answer the question.


Group A or Group B

i don't think that is what the CDC numbers mean

of course the houses with guns are more likely to have gun suicides, since they need a gun... and since more suicides are committed with guns, that means more suicides in houses with guns

that still doesn't mean that the suicide happens because there is a gun in the house

why do i care how someone does it anyway?

[XingTheRubicon]

Group B

How is this relevant to my right to own a handgun?

Show me in this thread where I said you shouldn't be able to own one.

[yermom]

so what are you saying?

[skycat]

Maybe that while it should be your right to own a handgun, said ownership is generally a bad idea for society at large.

Pretty much exactly my stance on most illicit drugs and Kansas Jayhawk sweatshirts.

[yermom]

you could say the same thing about driving a car, or having kids ;)

[Hamhock]

Pretty much exactly my stance on most illicit drugs and Kansas Jayhawk sweatshirts.


which is why they didn't get their own lines on that constitution thingy.

[crawfish]

it's all Crawfish's fault!!11!1

You know, I can delete this thread whenever I want to...

THE POWER!!! THE ABSOLUTE POWER!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[skycat]

you could say the same thing about driving a car, or having kids ;)

Well, there are multiple and clear benefits to society gained from the ease of tranpsortation gained by driving cars, or the cheap labor provided to fast food restaraunts by the endless supply of teenagers.

No such benefit can be found from the continued existance of "Beak 'Em Hawks" paraphanelia.

[Jerk]

No matter what your agenda, you can reach any conclusion from using the right stats.

The cause of crime is not guns, it's criminals. I hate to sound like a bumper-sticker, but it's really that simple.

The great benefit of an armed society is not easily placed into a statistics database.

What keeps people from walking into your house at night? It doesn't matter if you own a gun or not, you are benefiting from the fact that most criminals don't know whether you do or not. That's why I challenge Xing to put the 'gun free home' sign on her front door. She won't do it. She's not that stupid. Even she knows that unarmed women make easy targets.

So Xing can be critical of gun ownership, whilst at the same time reaping the rewards of living in a place where a predator can only assume that her house has a firearm, and that he might get shot at.

[XingTheRubicon]

so what are you saying?

I'm not exactly sure.

[sanantoniosooner]

I'm not exactly sure.
At least you're committed to it.

[XingTheRubicon]

No matter what your agenda, you can reach any conclusion from using the right stats.

The cause of crime is not guns, it's criminals. I hate to sound like a bumper-sticker, but it's really that simple.

The great benefit of an armed society is not easily placed into a statistics database.

What keeps people from walking into your house at night? It doesn't matter if you own a gun or not, you are benefiting from the fact that most criminals don't know whether you do or not. That's why I challenge Xing to put the 'gun free home' sign on her front door. She won't do it. She's not that stupid. Even she knows that unarmed women make easy targets.

So Xing can be critical of gun ownership, whilst at the same time reaping the rewards of living in a place where a predator can only assume that her house has a firearm, and that he might get shot at.


Here's a point for your side...

The small amount of self defense intruder gun deaths tells only part of the story. How many times has an intruder been wounded to apprehend a criminal? How many hundreds of times has a homeowner racked a shotgun and scared of an intruder away? How many times has a homeowner simply drawn his/her weapon and held the intruder at gunpoint until help arrives?

Those would all be successful home protection events that would be repressed from most statistics.






I'm just trying to help.

[Jerk]

Yep, I agree. Now that I finished jogging 5 miles, I'm going to lift some weights. cya later!

[King Crimson]

one of the Caulkin's nails Amanda Peet in Igby Goes Down.

spek.