Tulsa mayor closing golf courses

[toast]

Looks like she's shutting down 27 holes at Mohawk & Page so that they can open up more swimming pools. The paper didn't mention which courses specifically, but I'm guessing it will be Olde Page and nine holes on Pecan Valley. They are keeping the 9 hole course for the youngsters.

[yermom]

good for him ;)

[OU4LIFE]

if I played golf in Tulsa, this might upset me.

[OUDoc]

With all those hills and trees, where can you put a pool?

[King Crimson]

how much acreage do you need for more swimming pools? 27 holes of golf worth?

[Mjcpr]

The City of Tulsa has struggled with the budget since about 2001 so I'm not surprised. If the golf courses lose money, it would be hard for her to justify subsidizing them especially when most of the pressure for Parks-related funding revolves around opening the public pools in the lower income areas of town.

I just played Page Belcher last weekend and it's a nice, old course, I hate to see it go.....but I understand it I guess. Pecan Valley sucks because the front 9 is a baby course but it worked great for the First Tee outings.

[Mjcpr]

how much acreage do you need for more swimming pools? 27 holes of golf worth?

It's not the acerage, it's the funding.

[King Crimson]

i agree about Page B. i played in a high school tournament there...nice old school public track.

[picasso]

they're not building more swimming pools. the city just doesn't always have the budget to keep all the pools open.

it's for the kids Jerry.

[King Crimson]

It's not the acerage, it's the funding.

yes, i see that now. thanks. :P

[toast]

Maybe they should have tried to market/sell the entire facilities while they were still being maintained instead of partially closing them? That way the city could be completely out of the golf business. I wonder if the county courses (LaFortune and South Lakes) are losing as much as the city courses?

[Fugue]

It's not the acerage, it's the cost of repairing my divots.

:pop:

[Mjcpr]

Maybe they should have tried to market/sell the entire facilities while they were still being maintained instead of partially closing them? That way the city could be completely out of the golf business. I wonder if the county courses (LaFortune and South Lakes) are losing as much as the city courses?

I heard rumors that the Mayor inquired about selling the golf courses a while back for this very reason but ran into some kind of problems....like, she wasn't allowed to sell them or something. I can't remember now what the problem was but anytime you try and do something radical, the bureaucracy often gets in the way.


The County doesn't struggle financially like the City does....I assume because most of their revenue comes from property taxes which is much less volatile.

[Mjcpr]

:pop:

Hey, it holds fond memories for me....I shot an 89 out there last Saturday. :D

[Fugue]

Hey, it holds fond memories for me....I shot an 89 out there last Saturday. :D

That's not bad at all. Don't go improving and stuff or my weak golf smack will become even lamerer.

[toast]

I heard rumors that the Mayor inquired about selling the golf courses a while back for this very reason but ran into some kind of problems....like, she wasn't allowed to sell them or something. I can't remember now what the problem was but anytime you try and do something radical, the bureaucracy often gets in the way.


The County doesn't struggle financially like the City does....I assume because most of their revenue comes from property taxes which is much less volatile.


thanks for the info...the paper mentioned possibly selling the unused properties for housing development. I played Olde Page once last year but spend most of the time at White Hawk or LaFortune.

[Mjcpr]

Yeah, that'd be nice.....some of the houses along Old Page were not the nicest houses I've ever seen so we're not talking about Battle Creek out there or anything. My only question is I wonder what kind of rate increase would've been required to achieve the same net effect. *shrug*

[Mjcpr]

That's not bad at all. Don't go improving and stuff or my weak golf smack will become even lamerer.
Unpossible. It couldn't get any lamer.

:D

[OU4LIFE]

Ok, EXACTLY how does closing a course that you just spent 1.6 million renovating save money?

What are you going to do? Let it just sit there and go to shiat? Let it get all grown over and then in 5 years decide you want to re-open it and spend another 2 mill refurbing it again?

seems stupid to me.

[Okla-homey]

I fail to see why cities have any business operating golf courses in the first place.

[OU4LIFE]

just about every city has one city-owned golf course.

[Mjcpr]

Ok, EXACTLY how does closing a course that you just spent 1.6 million renovating save money?

What are you going to do? Let it just sit there and go to shiat? Let it get all grown over and then in 5 years decide you want to re-open it and spend another 2 mill refurbing it again?

seems stupid to me.

There are 2 courses at Page Belcher, I'm guessing they won't be closing down the one they just refurbished but I haven't heard which is getting the axe.

[Mjcpr]

I fail to see why cities have any business operating golf courses in the first place.

What about pools? Or parks?

[toast]

There are 2 courses at Page Belcher, I'm guessing they won't be closing down the one they just refurbished but I haven't heard which is getting the axe.


I believe Stone Creek gets more play than Olde Page and they "refurbished" Stone Creek 4 or 5 years ago. However, the last time I played it, they had lost some of the greens (10 and 11 especially).

[OU4LIFE]

There are 2 courses at Page Belcher, I'm guessing they won't be closing down the one they just refurbished but I haven't heard which is getting the axe.

I was under the impression that BOTH Belcher course got makeovers, and the city used the half cent tax to fund them.

I know they did Stone Creek like two years ago. Which is the light years better course than Olde page....

[Mjcpr]

Like toast said, I think SC got some work 4 or 5 years ago and I THINK whatever renovations that were done (like many projects) were funded by the 3rd Penny Sales Tax, but I'm not positive about that.

It couldn't be better than Olde Page because OP held me to an 89 last week. ME!!

[OU4LIFE]

ok, you win

[landrun]

I played Page a few years back when I was visiting family in Tulsa. I really liked that course. I hate to see them close it down. Leave it to a woman mayor to shut down golf courses. Couldn't they just cut funding for orphans, schools or the homeless or something. :D

[I_SMELL_FEAR]

they should make the BA and 169 Tollways for extra funding.

[Okla-homey]

just about every city has one city-owned golf course.

I don't have a problem with public courses, but they should outsource them to private contractors who don't have to pay flippin' city wages and would operate them on a paying basis or go out of bidness. The problem with the city courses in Tulsa, as I understand it, is they have been hemorraging money for years. They couldn't even break even as run by the city.

[Okla-homey]

they should make the BA and 169 Tollways for extra funding.

I'd be down with that if it would help at rush hour by keeping some people off them.

[Mjcpr]

I don't have a problem with public courses, but they should outsource them to private contractors who don't have to pay flippin' city wages and would operate them on a paying basis or go out of bidness. The problem with the city courses in Tulsa, as I understand it, is they have been hemorraging money for years. They couldn't even break even as run by the city.

I think they are run by private firms, at least partially.

[OU4LIFE]

I don't have a problem with public courses, but they should outsource them to private contractors who don't have to pay flippin' city wages and would operate them on a paying basis or go out of bidness. The problem with the city courses in Tulsa, as I understand it, is they have been hemorraging money for years. They couldn't even break even as run by the city.

not arguing at all. I think most every city-owned course I've ever heard of loses money.

[SicEmBaylor]

I fail to see why cities have any business operating golf courses in the first place.
THANK YOU!
I have a similar opinion of public libraries.

[Scott D]

I think it would be more cost efficient to just close Tulsa.....Mayor could just you know...have the power shut down after sunset to save money. Get your candles ready people! Saving that electricity can save the city millions!

[bri]

THANK YOU!
I have a similar opinion of everything.

Yeah, duly noted. Crawl back into your hole now, Johnny Reb.

[Boomer.....]

they should make the BA and 169 Tollways for extra funding.
No way!

Hopefully if they decide to go with either of the mass public transportation plans, it should alleviate some of the traffic on the BA.

[bri]

MONORAIL!!

And Tulsa has quite enough toll roads, thank you very much. Besides, we don't get the revenue; OTA does.

[Boomer.....]

Lets just hope they choose the train instead of the bus system. It will draw far more riders than the bus would.

[sooneron]

They should give agc a ring. It would be better than nothing.

[OUDoc]

MONORAIL!!


True or false: You can get mono from riding the monorail.

[RacerX]

Lets just hope they choose the train instead of the bus system. It will draw far more riders than the bus would.

Give them good music, good coffee.

[Mjcpr]

For those that care, courses will remain open....per SouthCentral golf magazine:

Tulsa Mayor to keep Page Belcher courses open
by Ken MacLeod

The city of Tulsa will no longer seek to close 18 holes at Page Belcher Golf Course and nine holes at Mohawk Park Golf Course, Tulsa Mayor Kathy Taylor said today. Instead, the city will begin putting together a request for proposal and take bids from independent course operators to run the city-owned courses.

The proposed closings were announced in early May when Taylor released her 2007-08 fiscal year budget. At the time she said the city was subsidizing its two 36-hole golf properties by more than $1.5 million annually.

“While I do believe that it is not the best core competency for the city to operate golf courses, after much discussion with residents concerned about their home values, golfers and other interested parties, I also believe the courses should stay open,” Taylor said. “We’re looking at some of the best practice models of individual private operators and working on drafting an RFP. And we’re also looking at finding a way to keep those courses open until we can get that done.”

Tulsa City Councilor Rick Westcott, whose district encompasses Page Belcher, said he and the homeowners whose houses border either the Stone Creek or Olde Page courses were pleased with the development. Westscott has been working with homeowners, private course contractors and others to find an alternative to closing the courses. An open meeting is scheduled with Taylor, Westcott, homeowners and golfers at Page Belcher June 6 at 6 p.m. at Page Belcher.

“I am very pleased,” Westcott said. “This will be a win-win for the golfers and for the city.”

Currently, superintendent Tim Thornton and all maintenance workers at Page Belcher and Mohawk Park are city employees. All other employees work for George Glenn, who contracts with the city to run the courses, pro shops, restaurants and driving ranges. Taylor said she and Westcott will meet Thursday to begin detailed discussions and she hoped the RFP would be prepared within 30 days and proposals could be accepted and perhaps a decision made on an operator within 120 days.

They will also discuss how to fund the golf courses in the interim by adjusting the proposed budget. Glenn has a contract with the city through 2009. He could not be reached for comment this afternoon. Thornton said he had lost three employees at Page Belcher and three at Mohawk Park since the Mayor’s original announcement, leaving just 12 full-time maintenance employees at Page Belcher.

In addition to seeking bids from private course operators, Taylor said she would maintain a dialog with Tulsa County, which operates the LaFortune Park and South Lakes public courses. Tulsa County Commissioner Randi Miller, whose house borders a fairway at Page Belcher, had asked county parks director Richard Bales to begin a detailed review of how the county could assist the city by possibly assuming operations of the two courses or working toward forming a city-county trust to operate the courses.

[1stTimeCaller]

I don't think I'll vote for her commie butt next election.




































;)

[OU4LIFE]

I bet that the people that own houses there were pretty loud about the closing.