seems a few loud mouths can run the Military off again

[olevetonahill]

Hope the link works
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/April/20/local/stories/02local

[usmc-sooner]

The link is not working. It's going to like a main page. Which article or what part do we click on.

[mdklatt]

The link is not working. It's going to like a main page. Which article or what part do we click on.

Try this: http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/April/25/local/stories/07local.htm

[usmc-sooner]

"If every school prevented recruitment, if every port stopped shipping weapons, if every community refused to accept war profiteers as neighbors, war would be impossible," third-year student Natalie MacIntyre said in a statement.

if only all kids were this smart.

It's amazing how 3rd year student has come up with all the answers to world peace. :rolleyes:

[mdklatt]

"If every school prevented recruitment, if every port stopped shipping weapons, if every community refused to accept war profiteers as neighbors, war would be impossible," third-year student Natalie MacIntyre said in a statement.

if only all kids were this smart.



What's stopping people interested in the military from contacting a recruiter on their own?

[usmc-sooner]

I don't know, that's how I did it. I looked it up in the Yellow Pages called and then met with them at their office.

Honestly though they should be allowed on campus because the offer a great career for college graduates in their Officer Programs, they offer a career for the first year student who decides college really isn't for me, or the ones who need financial aid to complete college.

[usmc-sooner]

What's stopping people interested in the military from contacting a recruiter on their own?

also college is supposed to help you with opportunites, well the military is an opportunity. Why should a 18 year kid smart enough to be in college be sheltered from a recruiter? He should be plenty smart enough to decide if thats the road he wants to choose.

What if they decide we can't have football recruiting?

what's next, they won't let schools recruit teachers on campus? what if we disagree or agree on Global Warming do we kick out recruiters for meteorologists? What if we decide big business is bad do we not allow recruiters for business and finance companies.

People who run these schools need to teach the kids, and quit trying so darn hard to influence their politics. Let them decide for themselves.

[Xstnlsooner]

Dumb freakin kids! They'll learn to give up these delusions someday...


maybe. heh prolly not...Idioten!

[mdklatt]

Honestly though they should be allowed on campus because the offer a great career for college graduates in their Officer Programs, they offer a career for the first year student who decides college really isn't for me, or the ones who need financial aid to complete college.

I don't think they were banned from campus in this case, but they decided not to show up because it wouldn't be worth dealing with the protesters. If they were banned from campus the school could lose all its federal funding, right?

[yermom]

teachers and football players can also change their minds if they decide they don't like where things are going, or are lied to...

[usmc-sooner]

I don't think they were banned from campus in this case, but they decided not to show up because it wouldn't be worth dealing with the protesters. If they were banned from campus the school could lose all its federal funding, right?

I wouldn't know.

[usmc-sooner]

teachers and football players can also change their minds if they decide they don't like where things are going, or are lied to...

honestly yermom you're coming off as whiney, how many people scrap their careers because they are lied to, or don't like how things are going.

I can't think of one profession where somebody doesn't feel like they've been lied to, or they don't like how things are going. I spent four years of my life in college (which is the average enlistment) I don't like how things are going, or they told me I'd get a raise, you know what I've changed my mind and scrapping it all.

[mdklatt]

teachers and football players can also change their minds if they decide they don't like where things are going, or are lied to...

Eh, I'm not really on board with this as a valid reason for excluding anybody. Don't penalize all military recruiters for the actions of the few who overdo it. If you're not smart enough to realize what joining the military entails...well, we probably don't want you in the military in the first place. :D

The school that banned recruiters from campus because the military violated their discrimination policy had something concrete to point to, so that was cool. Banning them because of a vague idea that war is icky or that military recruiters are liars is discriminatory.

And in the UCSC case, the recruiters withdrew on their own, so no harm, no foul.

[yermom]

honestly yermom you're coming off as whiney, how many people scrap their careers because they are lied to, or don't like how things are going.

I can't think of one profession where somebody doesn't feel like they've been lied to, or they don't like how things are going. I spent four years of my life in college (which is the average enlistment) I don't like how things are going, or they told me I'd get a raise, you know what I've changed my mind and scrapping it all.

when you recruit an 18 year old to be a teacher or football players they can change majors or whatever

i'm not being whiny, i'm just saying they aren't exactly apples to oranges

you tell some kid you are going to pay them for school, and give them all these opportunities, but there is a lot they are signing away at the same time

[yermom]

Eh, I'm not really on board with this as a valid reason for excluding anybody. Don't penalize all military recruiters for the actions of the few who overdo it. If you're not smart enough to realize what joining the military entails...well, we probably don't want you in the military in the first place. :D

The school that banned recruiters from campus because the military violated their discrimination policy had something concrete to point to, so that was cool. Banning them because of a vague idea that war is icky or that military recruiters are liars is discriminatory.

And in the UCSC case, the recruiters withdrew on their own, so no harm, no foul.

i don't really disagree with that, the girl with the quote sounds like a retard and lives on Rainbow Island surrounded by fluffy bunnies or something, because it ain't reality she's living in

[usmc-sooner]

teachers and football players can also change their minds if they decide they don't like where things are going, or are lied to...

why is it that you liberals seem to have this different standard about the military than any other facet of life. You run around saying ooohh the military lied.

Well wake up and smell the coffee,
your parents have lied to you
your kids lie to you
your friends have lied to you
your wife/girlfriend has lied to you
your boss has lied to you
your college professor has lied to you

if your anybody that's even halfway important you get lied to daily.

It's called life.

[yermom]

none of those people are going to put me in prison if i decide not to talk to them anymore either

and i'm not exactly a liberal, thanks though :rolleyes:

[Mongo]

why is it that you liberals seem to have this different standard about the military than any other facet of life. You run around saying ooohh the military lied.

Well wake up and smell the coffee,
your parents have lied to you
your kids lie to you
your friends have lied to you
your wife/girlfriend has lied to you
your boss has lied to you
your college professor has lied to you

if your anybody that's even halfway important you get lied to daily.

It's called life.

you're a damn liar





:D

[Sooner in Tampa]

What's stopping people interested in the military from contacting a recruiter on their own?Why is that it is okay for any other company to just show up and recuit college kids. :mad: Now it's okay to discriminate against the military because of a bunch of pussie.

**** that!

[olevetonahill]

I don't think they were banned from campus in this case, but they decided not to show up because it wouldn't be worth dealing with the protesters. If they were banned from campus the school could lose all its federal funding, right?
Thats what the article said
My prob with it is the students are against War rite ? But they dont have a prob with Violent , clashing with the cops type protest .:rolleyes:
Yermom Yup a football player can decide he wants to go to another school . But he loses that yr of eligibity , whereas I know alot of folk who have went in the military couldnt hack it and got out after just a few months or weeks .

[Tear Down This Wall]

"If Andrew gets up, we'll all get up! It'll be anarchy!"

http://swatch217.castpost.com/breakfast-club.mov.jpg

[usmc-sooner]

when you recruit an 18 year old to be a teacher or football players they can change majors or whatever

i'm not being whiny, i'm just saying they aren't exactly apples to oranges

you tell some kid you are going to pay them for school, and give them all these opportunities, but there is a lot they are signing away at the same time

you've don't have a clue as to the recruitment process. Hell you pick your MOS, You get it guarenteed in your contract. You can be so many things that non combat related. Basically you have to live where your stationed (just like a civilian job) stay in shape (unlike a civilian job) can't take illegal drugs (like most civilian jobs) not be a open homosexual (it's kinda 50/50 on whether civilian jobs are like that or not)

Back to the MOS thing. You pick it yourself, if what you want isn't available you can decide not to join. You don't just get thrown on the front line with infantry of the Seals. You can work with computers, healthcare, weather fields, communications, mechanics, logistics, finance, admin, legal. We had guys that specialized in sports (they actually had a Marine Corps Rodeo Team)

[jk the sooner fan]

What's stopping people interested in the military from contacting a recruiter on their own?

you know, i know even you are smarter than this

recruiting is salesmanship

i'm going to assume you have just a tiny bit of knowledge about sales, but you dont sit and wait for the customer to come find you....you go out after them

[mdklatt]

Why is that it is okay for any other company to just show up and recuit college kids. :mad:


If it's a private university, I don't care who they decide to exclude or for what reason. If it's a public university they better abide by their state and federal discrimation laws. It may be doing a disservice to their students to prevent certain employers from coming to campus, but that's their call. Doesn't a school have the right--if not a duty, even--to respect the wishes of its students?

Didn't the military recruiters withdraw from the UCSC event on their own?

[yermom]

you've don't have a clue as to the recruitment process. Hell you pick your MOS, You get it guarenteed in your contract. You can be so many things that non combat related. Basically you have to live where your stationed (just like a civilian job) stay in shape (unlike a civilian job) can't take illegal drugs (like most civilian jobs) not be a open homosexual (it's kinda 50/50 on whether civilian jobs are like that or not)

Back to the MOS thing. You pick it yourself, if what you want isn't available you can decide not to join. You don't just get thrown on the front line with infantry of the Seals. You can work with computers, healthcare, weather fields, communications, mechanics, logistics, finance, admin, legal. We had guys that specialized in sports (they actually had a Marine Corps Rodeo Team)

yeah, i don't know what and MOS is... but if my job decided to move me, i could quit.

so you are telling me everyone in Iraq/Afghanistan chose to be there instead of playing sports or something over here?

[usmc-sooner]

none of those people are going to put me in prison if i decide not to talk to them anymore either

and i'm not exactly a liberal, thanks though :rolleyes:


hate to break it to you yermom but they don't put you in prison in the military for that either. You actually have to commit a felony to go to prison.

You're kinda on board with all the liberal stuff, I assumed you were a liberal. It wasn't an insult. I think it's wierd that a lot not all of the people who speak all the liberal talking points seem to always say I'm not a liberal. But anyways not meant as an insult. I'm a right winger or conservative and it won't bother me a bit if you call me that.

[yermom]

i don't speak all the liberal talking points... i think for myself, not what some group says i should (let's talk about being PC, or gun control or abortion...)

so you can just leave at any time after you sign up? you aren't AWOL if you don't go where your orders tell you?

[olevetonahill]

Didn't the military recruiters withdraw from the UCSC event on their own?
Yes they Did Because it wasnt worth the effort to try an recruite In such a hostile environment .Like I said the Kids abhor war but dont mind a fight with the cops to protest the recruiters .

[usmc-sooner]

yeah, i don't know what and MOS is... but if my job decided to move me, i could quit.

so you are telling me everyone in Iraq/Afghanistan chose to be there instead of playing sports or something over here?

every damn last one of them volunteered. You'd have to have the mind of a 2 year old to think you joined the military and you wouldn't have to travel.

Most people can't just quit their job, over any little thing.


I don't get what your arguing? Are you implying that recruiters don't tell their kids they are going somewhere else. I mean there's only so many places you can go if you join the Navy. You think recruiters are telling kids you join the Navy and we'll keep you in Oklahoma, we'll station you at Lake Thunderbird. Come on man.

[Sooner in Tampa]

If it's a private university, I don't care who they decide to exclude or for what reason. If it's a public university they better abide by their state and federal discrimation laws. It may be doing a disservice to their students to prevent certain employers from coming to campus, but that's their call. Doesn't a school have the right--if not a duty, even--to respect the wishes of its students?

Didn't the military recruiters withdraw from the UCSC event on their own?They did withdraw on their own...there is now way in hell they could take the bad press. Times are pretty freakin hard for recruiters lately.

[olevetonahill]

i don't speak all the liberal talking points... i think for myself, not what some group says i should (let's talk about being PC, or gun control or abortion...)

so you can just leave at any time after you sign up? you aren't AWOL if you don't go where your orders tell you?
Yup your AWOL , but you aint going to jail , your gonna get fired , your not gonna get any benifits , get a bad conduct or even Dishonoable discharge.
It aint like it was back in the day .
And Yes for the Most every young person in Iraq or afstan knew theyed be going .

[usmc-sooner]

i don't speak all the liberal talking points... i think for myself, not what some group says i should (let's talk about being PC, or gun control or abortion...)

so you can just leave at any time after you sign up? you aren't AWOL if you don't go where your orders tell you?

there's admin seperations, medical discharges, failure to conform to a military lifestyle. People find ways out all the time.

We had a ****bird get out by faking a back injury. The Doctors said everything was fine but he said it hurt to bad to run. He ended up getting out.

[yermom]

every damn last one of them volunteered. You'd have to have the mind of a 2 year old to think you joined the military and you wouldn't have to travel.

Most people can't just quit their job, over any little thing.


I don't get what your arguing? Are you implying that recruiters don't tell their kids they are going somewhere else. I mean there's only so many places you can go if you join the Navy. You think recruiters are telling kids you join the Navy and we'll keep you in Oklahoma, we'll station you at Lake Thunderbird. Come on man.

i mean chose to be in combat units vs. being in the military rodeo or something

i'm just saying it sounds like you are painting a pretty rosy picture of military life right now

[mdklatt]

you know, i know even you are smarter than this


Gee, thanks. :rolleyes:



recruiting is salesmanship

i'm going to assume you have just a tiny bit of knowledge about sales, but you dont sit and wait for the customer to come find you....you go out after them

This isn't about whether or not military recruiting is as effective as it could be, because clearly it's better if they come to job fairs. This about if a school has the right to exclude recruiters--military or otherwise--from campus. The school isn't really violating the students' rights, because they are still free to contact an employer on their own. It might be as easy, but it's not impossible. And the school isn't violating the rights of the excluded recruiter (subject to possible discrimination laws, as I noted above) because there's no right to sell your product wherever you want.

And none of that matters in the UCSC case because the military withdrew on its own.

[usmc-sooner]

i mean chose to be in combat units vs. being in the military rodeo or something

i'm just saying it sounds like you are painting a pretty rosy picture of military life right now


you choose your MOS!!!! that's your military occupation, that means if you don't want to be in the infantry, you don't have to be, you do not have to choose a combot MOS. I had two MOS's one was not a combat MOS. To be honest life was pretty good out in Norfolk Va, if I was dodging bullets they were from civilians.

[mdklatt]

Times are pretty freakin hard for recruiters lately.

I'm pretty sure that's not just the fault of protesters....

[mdklatt]

you choose your MOS!!!! that's your military occupation, that means if you don't want to be in the infantry, you don't have to be, you do not have to choose a combot MOS. I had two MOS's one was not a combat MOS.

What if there aren't any available slots for your chosen MOS?

[OCUDad]

What y’all need to remember is that in a state that’s already pretty messed up, Santa Cruz and Berkeley are considered “independent left-wing republics.” If you want a real laugh, read the City of Berkeley’s “Nuclear Free Zone Disclosure form.”

http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/housing/forms/AgencyContractForms/NuclearFreeDisclosureForm.pdf

[usmc-sooner]

What if there aren't any available slots for your chosen MOS?

they put in your contract, they have to give it to you. If it's not available there's no contract. You have to pick an MOS, or they can't type up your contract.

There are a rare few people who are just so undecided they go in with an open contract (military puts you where they need you the most) and surprisingly it isn't always infantry. I knew 3 people who went in OC, 2 were cooks and one was in the finance field.

[mdklatt]

they put in your contract, they have to give it to you. If it's not available there's no contract. You have to pick an MOS, or they can't type up your contract.


And you can choose whether or not you go into combat?

Oh...I get it. You mean literally go into combat, not just get deployed to a combat zone. That is, even if you sign up to be an accountant, you might still be sent to Iraq.

[C&CDean]

Heh. Or you could be like me.

9th grade dropout, in trouble with the law, one week before my 17th birthday. My caseworker goes "Dean, how about I talk to a recruiter and get you in the military and maybe the DA will drop the charges?" I go "cool."


So, a couple days later we go down to the recruiter's office (Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines were all in one building in one long hallway). First, I go into the AF office and go "sign me up." He goes "where's your high school diploma?" I go "don't have one." He goes "can't take you then."

Next, I go to the Navy dude. I go "sign me up." He goes "where's your diploma?" I go "I ain't got one." He goes "go next door, the Marines are always looking for 16 year old armed robbers."

On my way next door I see this sign a little further up the hall. It has a dude jumping out of a plane with the slogan "GO AIRBORNE!!" at the top. I go "that's for me right there." So I go in the Army door instead. Dude says "if you'll sign this paper stating you'll get your GED after you get to your permanent party station, we'll sign you up." I go "can I go Airborne?" He smiles broadly and goes "sure son." I go "can I work on those new computer thingies coming out?" He smiles and goes "well maybe one day son, but wouldn't you rather go combat arms? You look like you'd make a great Airborne Infantryman. All the chicks dig paratroopers." I go "sign me up."

The rest is history...

[Sooner in Tampa]

And you can choose whether or not you go into combat?

Oh...I get it. You mean literally go into combat, not just get deployed to a combat zone. That is, even if you sign up to be an accountant, you might still be sent to Iraq.You bet your @ss...if you belong to Uncle Sams Misguided Children...you will get to relax in the sands of Iraq!!! Bank on it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I don't think they were banned from campus in this case, but they decided not to show up because it wouldn't be worth dealing with the protesters. If they were banned from campus the school could lose all its federal funding, right?

Yep.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

"If every school prevented recruitment, if every port stopped shipping weapons, if every community refused to accept war profiteers as neighbors, war would be impossible," third-year student Natalie MacIntyre said in a statement.


I sure wish I could live thinking about the world like this person...Life would be a big party and I would be dancing the sun dance...

[mdklatt]

You bet your @ss...if you belong to Uncle Sams Misguided Children...you will get to relax in the sands of Iraq!!! Bank on it.

Which brings up another question...how big is the distinction between a combat and a non-combat MOS? If you're an accountant or something, can they stick a rifle in your hand and send you out into the **** if they're shorthanded?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Heh. Or you could be like me.

9th grade dropout, in trouble with the law, one week before my 17th birthday. My caseworker goes "Dean, how about I talk to a recruiter and get you in the military and maybe the DA will drop the charges?" I go "cool."


So, a couple days later we go down to the recruiter's office (Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines were all in one building in one long hallway). First, I go into the AF office and go "sign me up." He goes "where's your high school diploma?" I go "don't have one." He goes "can't take you then."

Next, I go to the Navy dude. I go "sign me up." He goes "where's your diploma?" I go "I ain't got one." He goes "go next door, the Marines are always looking for 16 year old armed robbers."

On my way next door I see this sign a little further up the hall. It has a dude jumping out of a plane with the slogan "GO AIRBORNE!!" at the top. I go "that's for me right there." So I go in the Army door instead. Dude says "if you'll sign this paper stating you'll get your GED after you get to your permanent party station, we'll sign you up." I go "can I go Airborne?" He smiles broadly and goes "sure son." I go "can I work on those new computer thingies coming out?" He smiles and goes "well maybe one day son, but wouldn't you rather go combat arms? You look like you'd make a great Airborne Infantryman. All the chicks dig paratroopers." I go "sign me up."

The rest is history...

Spek to you...and the Navy comment on the Marines ;)

In the old days, even a judge would sentence a "misguided" individual to military service to straighten them out and provide some measure of responsibility.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Which brings up another question...how big is the distinction between a combat and a non-combat MOS? If you're an accountant or something, can they stick a rifle in your hand and send you out into the **** if they're shorthanded?

Everyone in the Marines is a rifleman first if I understand correctly. Don't they have to qualify every year on the range? Don't know about the Army, Navy or Air Force.

[C&CDean]

Spek to you...and the Navy comment on the Marines ;)

In the old days, even a judge would sentence a "misguided" individual to military service to straighten them out and provide some measure of responsibility.

In all seriousness, the military saved my life.

[usmc-sooner]

Heh. Or you could be like me.

9th grade dropout, in trouble with the law, one week before my 17th birthday. My caseworker goes "Dean, how about I talk to a recruiter and get you in the military and maybe the DA will drop the charges?"


You see officer I can explain the guns and the drugs and me being buck naked but I can't explain why that goat won't come anywhere near me. :D

[C&CDean]

Everyone in the Marines is a rifleman first if I understand correctly. Don't they have to qualify every year on the range? Don't know about the Army, Navy or Air Force.

Marines are all infantrymen first. In the Army, everybody has to shoot/do PT tests every year.

[KABOOKIE]

Which brings up another question...how big is the distinction between a combat and a non-combat MOS? If you're an accountant or something, can they stick a rifle in your hand and send you out into the **** if they're shorthanded?

In the Marines everyone goes infantry first. You're stuck with a rifle no matter the MOS and yes they can and do send your *** to the "****" if needed.

[jk the sooner fan]

In all seriousness, the military saved my life.

yours and mine both, although i wasnt in the same set of circumstances as you

i think it smacks in the face of what the "soldier" has done for this country, by banning recruiters from campuses.......granted the recruiters have to be smart about how they conduct their business

[usmc-sooner]

Everyone in the Marines is a rifleman first if I understand correctly. Don't they have to qualify every year on the range? Don't know about the Army, Navy or Air Force.

yeah,

your shooting score is a big part of your promotions into the world of NCO's then you pick up SNCO's and it's a part of your fit reps.

We (the Marines) would qualify as Marksmen, Sharpshooter, or Expert, we shoot from 200 meters, 300 meters, and 500 meters in various positions such as standing, kneeling, sitting and prone. We also do moving targets, night shoots (they pop off a flare and you take your shot, when they tell you.) Depending on your rank you qualify with a 9MM as well. I've shot everything from a 9MM, M-16, SAW, 240G, Shotgun, 50 Cal. Grenades

[sanantoniosooner]

I wish the military could have saved a cousin of mine. He was a screw up when he joined and did his few years and came out a screw up.

Doing jail time now. I was hoping the Marines could get him to straighten out.

[mdklatt]

i think it smacks in the face of what the "soldier" has done for this country, by banning recruiters from campuses

The kinds of schools were this were happening probably aren't real fertile recruiting grounds to begin with. It's like if McDonald's advertising was banned from PETA HQ--they're probably not losing any customers.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You have a point there...:)

[yermom]

I wish the military could have saved a cousin of mine. He was a screw up when he joined and did his few years and came out a screw up.

Doing jail time now. I was hoping the Marines could get him to straighten out.

instead now he's a screw up that's in better shape and is weapons trained ;)

seriously though, that sucks

[olevetonahill]

Yall remember the DRAFT :eek:
Heh when I got to the reception station , we were lined up by the 100s , they went down the line said , the Marines need you get in that line , the Navy needs you get over there , the A/F dont need any body cause they are Pud whackers and have the easiest duty and stations :D the rest you girls drop and give me 50 . :eek:

[Sooner in Tampa]

In the Marines everyone goes infantry first. You're stuck with a rifle no matter the MOS and yes they can and do send your *** to the "****" if needed.That's right kids...every swinging Richard and woman spends 30 days doing Marine Combat Training!!! Once your *** in a combat zone....EVERYONE pulls some type of combat duty...security, defense, or some patrol.

Make no bones about...USMC doesn't give two $hits about your MOS!! You are there to fight...and WIN.

SEMPER FI

[sanantoniosooner]

instead now he's a screw up that's in better shape and is weapons trained ;)

seriously though, that sucks
The pinhead pawned a bunch of his dad's stuff. Daddy helped lock him up. I don't know what all else he did.

When he made it through boot camp I was optimistic. But it didn't take.

[usmc-sooner]

That's right kids...every swinging Richard and woman spends 30 days doing Marine Combat Training!!! Once your *** in a combat zone....EVERYONE pulls some type of combat duty...security, defense, or some patrol.

Make no bones about...USMC doesn't give two $hits about your MOS!! You are there to fight...and WIN.

SEMPER FI

that's right

[soonerscuba]

Two things. First, as mentioned above, UCSC makes UT-Austin look like BYU. Second, if you are at a career fair and don't have the balls to say "no thanks" to a recruiter, you deserve to be sent to the ****.

[C&CDean]

Two things. First, as mentioned above, UCSC makes UT-Austin look like BYU. Second, if you are at a career fair and don't have the balls to say "no thanks" to a recruiter, you deserve to be sent to the ****.

OK, who stole scuba's log-on?