Too bad she wasn't a VT student

[85Sooner]

Turns out 82 year old former Miss America can spot a crime, confront the criminals and when they don't comply, pull out a .38 snub nose, lean up on her walker and shoot out the tires of the criminals SUV. Then hold him at bay until ths sheriff arrives.

Count one mark for self defense with a firearm (handgun)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/ap_on_fe_st/brave_beauty_queen


Ballsy lady. She was the first red headed Miss america. So I guess what they say about feisty red heads is true. Even 82 year olds.

Have a great day!

[sanantoniosooner]

As much as I can appreciate what she did........

82 year olds need guns less than they need drivers licenses.

I don't want some bobblehead aiming at the guy holding me hostage.

[Czar Soonerov]

I don't want some bobblehead aiming at the guy holding me hostage.

Speak for yourself.

;)

[sanantoniosooner]

Speak for yourself.

;)
You'll have to change your name to Swiss Cheese Soonerov.

[85Sooner]

As much as I can appreciate what she did........

82 year olds need guns less than they need drivers licenses.

I don't want some bobblehead aiming at the guy holding me hostage.


I dunno she hit the tires of a moving vehicle twice. Either that was unfounded luck and she should by a lottery ticket or there was some firearms training in her past. Who knows, she was a showgirl in vegas.

[Jerk]

so...old people shouldn't be able to protect themselves?Sorry, but I see self-preservation as a God-given natural right.
I believe it would be immoral to deny this right to any decent human being.

[sanantoniosooner]

Yeah..........they should be allowed to drive too.........right?

[Jerk]

Yeah..........they should be allowed to drive too.........right?
only if they can pass the vision test and physical.

[sanantoniosooner]

only if they can pass the vision test and physical.
I agree with you.

For driving and gun carrying.

As long as they aren't a bobblehead too.

[TopDawg]

so...old people shouldn't be able to protect themselves?Sorry, but I see self-preservation as a God-given natural right.
I believe it would be immoral to deny this right to any decent human being.

Over-react much?

[sanantoniosooner]

For the tards that take stuff a little serious around here, I was pretty much joking.

It's people who take spek too seriously that shouldn't be allowed to carry handguns :D

[Jerk]

Over-react much?
I saw it as a calm and consice response to something I disagreed with. What's the matter? Did it violate your leftist principles? "Going overboard" is usually name calling or threats. This is not what I did.

[Jerk]

For the tards that take stuff a little serious around here, I was pretty much joking.

It's people who take spek too seriously that shouldn't be allowed to carry handguns :D
It didn't sound like it. I went back and re-read it and it came across as a plain old statement. Are we calling names now? I can play that game, too.
That is, if you want to.

[sanantoniosooner]

It didn't sound like it. I went back and re-read it and it came across as a plain old statement. Are we calling names now? I can play that game, too.
That is, if you want to.
Did I call anyone a name, or are you just feeling guilty?

Why don't you re-read it again since you failed miserably.

[Scott D]

It's people who take spek too seriously that shouldn't be allowed to carry handguns, have political opinions, watch football, or basically live :D

:D :D :D

[Jerk]

Did I call anyone a name, or are you just feeling guilty?

Why don't you re-read it again since you failed miserably.
Oh okay, my bad. I know you never meant to imply that I was a tard. I'm just a little on edge lately because of all the attacks on the individual who dares to take responsibility for themselves. Here we have an old lady who took a risk and did exactly what she should have done, unlike many others in this society who would rather cower down and rely on big government or da police to be there at all times. Taking responsibility for your own 'Self-preservation' has its risks, but it is the essence of individualism and that's why the collectivists hate it so much.

[sanantoniosooner]

Oh okay, my bad. I know you never meant to imply that I was a tard. I'm just a little on edge lately because of all the attacks on the individual who dares to take responsibility for themselves. Here we have an old lady who took a risk and did exactly what she should have done, unlike many others in this society who would rather cower down and rely on big government or da police to be there at all times. Taking responsibility for your own 'Self-preservation' has its risks, but it is the essence of individualism that the collectivists hate so much.
I didn't know it was you taking it serious until you spilled the beans. You gotta remember I'm a lowly non-sponsor.

My only "slant" on the take is that I'm not sure I'd want half the 82 year olds I'VE been around wielding any type of weapon. It has nothing to do with the right to bear arms and has everything to do with the ability to aim straight.

I'm sorry that all the lefties have put you on full paranoia mode.

[SoonerGirl06]

So is it okay that I use a 9 iron instead of a .38?

[Jerk]

I didn't know it was you taking it serious until you spilled the beans. You gotta remember I'm a lowly non-sponsor.

My only "slant" on the take is that I'm not sure I'd want half the 82 year olds I'VE been around wielding any type of weapon. It has nothing to do with the right to bear arms and has everything to do with the ability to aim straight.

I'm sorry that all the lefties have put you on full paranoia mode.
I'm not asking you to read this, but I'm just telling you that after I did, I began to get a little more irritated about these things. I'm just sayin. There's alot more to this than 'gun control.' It really explains how a society can become up-side-down.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
England has evolved to the point where if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, threatening you, and you fight back, YOU will go to jail. Is that where we are headed to here?

[85Sooner]

I'm not asking you to read this, but I'm just telling you that after I did, I began to get a little more irritated about these things. I'm just sayin. There's alot more to this than 'gun control.' It really explains how a society can become up-side-down.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
England has evolved to the point where if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, threatening you, and you fight back, YOU will go to jail. Is that where we are headed to here?


I am starting to believe many people want it this way. specially the criminals.

[jk the sooner fan]

So is it okay that I use a 9 iron instead of a .38?

you'll get alot less loft with a 6 iron

[SoonerGirl06]

you'll get alot less loft with a 6 iron

:D

I've tried shooting a gun and it knocked me on my a**. I can get a better grip on my iron.

But seriously. I think the gun control thing is getting way out of hand. If someone is determined to shoot someone, they're gonna find a way to do it, regardless of the restrictions placed on them in trying to obtain a gun.

How about making the penalties for committing the crimes a lot harsher? You think that might be a deterent? How about making the judges uphold the law instead of making them up themselves based upon their own ideals and beliefs?

Also, this little old lady has a right to defend herself and her property. No one else is going to do it for her. I bet those guys will learn a lesson next time they try to pull a stunt like that.

[royalfan5]

:D

I've tried shooting a gun and it knocked me on my a**. I can get a better grip on my iron.

But seriously. I think the gun control thing is getting way out of hand. If someone is determined to shoot someone, they're gonna find a way to do it, regardless of the restrictions placed on them in trying to obtain a gun.

How about making the penalties for committing the crimes a lot harsher? You think that might be a deterent? How about making the judges uphold the law instead of making them up themselves based upon their own ideals and beliefs?

Also, this little old lady has a right to defend herself and her property. No one else is going to do it for her. I bet those guys will learn a lesson next time they try to pull a stunt like that.
That is also very expensive, so if we were to take that route, I don't want to hear any bitching about the cost.

[bri]

I stopped reading about halfway down, but I'm just gonna issue this thread a blanket "fail". :D

[sanantoniosooner]

I stopped reading about halfway down, but I'm just gonna issue this thread a blanket "fail". :D
good interpretation.

BTW.....I'm for restrictions on 82 year olds, not guns. :D

[royalfan5]

good interpretation.

BTW.....I'm for restrictions on 82 year olds, not guns. :D
We could make it a crime to live past 80. Just think of the saving and benefits to society. Cheaper health care, safer roads, less people in Florida, and Social Security would be much more solvent.























I'm just kidding folks. About killing 80 year olds.

[SoonerGirl06]

That is also very expensive, so if we were to take that route, I don't want to hear any bitching about the cost.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Sometimes I think that going to jail or prison must not be that big of a deterrent if they keep committing the crimes that send them there in the first place.

[royalfan5]

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Sometimes I think that going to jail or prison must not be that big of a deterrent if they keep committing the crimes that send them there in the first place.
Prisons cost a lot of money. If you want to build more and lock more people up, it will cost even more money. There is no real way around the cost of prisons. Even if you kept people locked in small cells all day and fed them bread and water, it would still be expensive.

[tommieharris91]

Another reason to advocate capital punishment.

[sanantoniosooner]

Another reason to advocate capital punishment.
as long as it doesn't take 20 years to implement.

[royalfan5]

Another reason to advocate capital punishment.
Which is not particularly cheap either, and may not be that big of a deterance either.

[sanantoniosooner]

Which is not particularly cheap either, and may not be that big of a deterance either.
With the current system, it's more expensive to implement the death penalty and it's not much of a deterrent.

[royalfan5]

With the current system, it's more expensive to implement the death penalty and it's not much of a deterrent.
There was still crime back when countries used to execute people quickly, and for a multitude of offenses, e.g. the Bloody Code in England.

[sanantoniosooner]

My point is that the death penalty, which I do support, serves little purpose other than exact eventual revenge and use up a lot of taxpayer money.

I got no answers, but I don't like it the way it is.

[SoonerGirl06]

Prisons cost a lot of money. If you want to build more and lock more people up, it will cost even more money. There is no real way around the cost of prisons. Even if you kept people locked in small cells all day and fed them bread and water, it would still be expensive.

Well the current system certainly isn't working. What would you suggest?

I'm not advocating building new prisons, but to make the time that criminals do spend in prison much more difficult than it is right now.

[royalfan5]

Well the current system certainly isn't working. What would you suggest?

I'm not advocating building new prisons, but to make the time that criminals do spend in prison much more difficult than it is right now.
Is prison really that much of a cakewalk right now? Outside of minimum security joints right that is. If you want longer sentences you are going to have to build prisons. How do you propose making the time harder? Do you want to strip all attempts at rehabilitation out of the system? Do you think that just locking them in a cells for an extended period of time will cause what made them a criminal to magically disappear?

[sanantoniosooner]

Is prison really that much of a cakewalk right now? Outside of minimum security joints right that is. If you want longer sentences you are going to have to build prisons. How do you propose making the time harder? Do you want to strip all attempts at rehabilitation out of the system? Do you think that just locking them in a cells for an extended period of time will cause what made them a criminal to magically disappear?
I think she asked you for a suggestion, not more questions;)

[royalfan5]

I think she asked you for a suggestion, not more questions;)
You can't get a quality suggestion, without a lot of questions.

[sanantoniosooner]

You can't get a quality suggestion, without a lot of questions.
how many more questions before we get that suggestion out of you?

This is starting to sound like a light bulb joke.

[royalfan5]

how many more questions before we get that suggestion out of you?

This is starting to sound like a light bulb joke.
Well, I would like to know her vision of what the prison system should be and why it would be cheaper than what we are doing now. I could probably have a suggestion then.

[sanantoniosooner]

How about just suggesting something better than the current system?

And believe me, I'm not trying to be critical. I've got no suggestions even though I'd like to see some changes. I just got the impression you had some personal opinion, but then you got a little evasive/cryptic on us.

[royalfan5]

How about just suggestion something better than the current system?

And believe me, I'm not trying to be critical. I've got no suggestions even though I'd like to see some changes. I just got the impression you had some personal opinion, but then you got a little evasive/cryptic on us.
My opinion is that there isn't some fix for the prison system that will make it cheap and effective. You want to punish through lots of hard time, and then kick'em back into the street. Be prepared to pay high fixed costs for prisons as long as we are locking folks up for long periods of time for non-violent drug crimes. Then don't be shocked when they commit more crimes when they are kicked back on the streets, with no money or support system. Don't want to turn them loose? Mo prisons, Mo money. How big of a threat is a prison to the average criminal? How do you make sure they won't come back? I don't think that just locking them in a cell and ignoring them is going to make them productive members of society. If they are incorrigible, I have no problem locking them up forever, but as long as we are going to let people out of prison, some effort must be made to help them become useful members of society.

[bri]

We could make it a crime to live past 80. Just think of the saving and benefits to society. Cheaper health care, safer roads, less people in Florida, and Social Security would be much more solvent.

http://www.boingboing.net/logan.jpg

THERE IS NO SANCTUARY!!!!!

[SoonerGirl06]

My opinion is that there isn't some fix for the prison system that will make it cheap and effective. You want to punish through lots of hard time, and then kick'em back into the street. Be prepared to pay high fixed costs for prisons as long as we are locking folks up for long periods of time for non-violent drug crimes. Then don't be shocked when they commit more crimes when they are kicked back on the streets, with no money or support system. Don't want to turn them loose? Mo prisons, Mo money. How big of a threat is a prison to the average criminal? How do you make sure they won't come back? I don't think that just locking them in a cell and ignoring them is going to make them productive members of society. If they are incorrigible, I have no problem locking them up forever, but as long as we are going to let people out of prison, some effort must be made to help them become useful members of society.

I appreciate your responding to my question. Thanks.

From my understanding there are programs in place to help criminals become productive members of society, both in and after prison. Most don't take advantage of it either way. I think it should be mandatory for them to attend these programs as terms of their sentence and probation.

But I also think they should do "hard time" while they're serving out their sentences as well. Working the fields, picking up trash, doing whatever to make the experience an unpleasant one and a deterrent for wanting to return... not to mention as a means to re-pay the taxpayers for the expense of having to house them in prison.

[royalfan5]

I appreciate your responding to my question. Thanks.

From my understanding there are programs in place to help criminals become productive members of society, both in and after prison. Most don't take advantage of it either way. I think it should be mandatory for them to attend these programs as terms of their sentence and probation.

But I also think they should do "hard time" while they're serving out their sentences as well. Working the fields, picking up trash, doing whatever to make the experience an unpleasant one and a deterrent for wanting to return... not to mention as a means to re-pay the taxpayers for the expense of having to house them in prison.
Fair enough. But that will cost money for guards, and transportation. It won't be an inexpensive option.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Legalize Marijuana and you can take care of a large chunk of the prison problem...

[sanantoniosooner]

Legalizing murder and theft would also.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yes but legalizing marijuana would help the economy though because Cheetoh's sales would go THROUGH the roof!!

[SoonerGirl06]

Fair enough. But that will cost money for guards, and transportation. It won't be an inexpensive option.

How do you come to that conclusion? I don't think it will be anymore expensive than what we're spending now.

But it's kinda a mute point anymore anyway...

[royalfan5]

How do you come to that conclusion? I don't think it will be anymore expensive than what we're spending now.

But it's kinda a mute point anymore anyway...
If you take them outside prison walls to work, you will be paying an extra-set of guards since you won't be able to take all of them out at once. If you want them to work the fields within the prison walls, you are going to have to buy fields. Most prisons already have workshops and such. In Nebraska, all the prisoners have jobs during the day unless they are in the hole. Trying to implement chain gangs on top what you are already doing will require more personnel and what-not.

[SoonerGirl06]

If you take them outside prison walls to work, you will be paying an extra-set of guards since you won't be able to take all of them out at once. If you want them to work the fields within the prison walls, you are going to have to buy fields. Most prisons already have workshops and such. In Nebraska, all the prisoners have jobs during the day unless they are in the hole. Trying to implement chain gangs on top what you are already doing will require more personnel and what-not.

I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be... or maybe I'm being way too simplistic in my thinking... either way, I think something needs to be done to deter people from wanting to commit a crime in the first place and commit another crime after they've left prison/jail.

As far as buying fields for prisoners to work in, that doesn't necessarily need to happen. Most prisons are located in rural areas with farms located around them. They can just work those.

[royalfan5]

I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be... or maybe I'm being way too simplistic in my thinking... either way, I think something needs to be done to deter people from wanting to commit a crime in the first place and commit another crime after they've left prison/jail.

As far as buying fields for prisoners to work in, that doesn't necessarily need to happen. Most prisons are located in rural areas with farms located around them. They can just work those.
Except in vegetable production, there isn't a great need for field workers. Everything is mechanized, now a-days. Plus, prisoners fill a lot of vital functions within a prison, laundry, food, janitorial, etc. If you are shipping them out, you will have to replace them at civilian wages. You have to consider that most criminals are from poor backgrounds and don't have that great of lives to begin with. What is to deter them when their life sucks already? Sure, going to jail seems like a bad option if you have a decent job and home and what not, but if your life sucks not a whole lot is going to deter you from lashing out at society via drugs, theft, violence, etc. Sure there are some exceptions to this, but by and large crime isn't committed by people that have a **** of a lot to lose.