Is this really true?

[MamaMia]

If it is, then why did this happen and where is all the money going for Heavens sake? :eek:

TAXES, TAXES and MORE TAXES

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, then
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ***

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers,
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me
To my doom..."

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Room Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road usage taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. What happened? And we still have to "press 1" for English

[frankensooner]

Well, since taxes can't be raise without a super-majority in this state, they make up the difference with fees. You have several "fees" not taxes in your list. ;)

[Okla-homey]

A couple of points, and to be sure, I'm no fan of taxes:

Often, taxes are used to regulate our conduct. The theory is that taxing things helps discourage their use or practice. Example, taxes on tobacco are enacted to discourage tobacco use. Ditto alcohol and other "sins taxes." Taxes on gas even help raise the price at the pump and theoretically encourage less use of gas.

Secondly, given we have this vast administrative state that began to evolve in the late 19th century and reached its zenith during FDR's presidency, the gubmint has to have money to do all the stuff our population now expects. The person who wrote that is correct we didn't used to have all these taxes and we were prosperous, but he fails to point out that in that day, we didn't have the alphabet soup of federal and state executive agencies regulating everything from securities trading (SEC) to alcohol beverage control (ATF.) Add in welfare, social security and unemployment insurance and you have a recipe for high taxes.

That said, the taxes we pay seem high to us, but they remain relatively low compared to taxes paid by folks throughout the rest of the world. the folks in most of the rest of the world have exchanged lower taxes for the "nanny state" which they expect to take care of them from cradle to grave.

In sum, if we want taxes to stay that way, we need to hold the line on creation of new entitlements and gubmint benefits.

[StoopTroup]

You may notice how much the Republican Party has flourished in the last 100 years.

:pop:

[frankensooner]

And how they spend with more abandon than the Dims ever did!

[1stTimeCaller]

the best problem a person can have is tax problems.

[NormanPride]

the best problem a person can have is tax problems.

I dunno... The problem of "Where do I put my solid gold terlit?" seems pretty good to me.

[85Sooner]

Actually there is a tax on the boat and then another tax on the motor.

so thats two sources of tax on the watercraft collected by the crin=minal system that is our governement.

[Mjcpr]

Actually there is a tax on the boat and then another tax on the motor.

so thats two sources of tax on the watercraft collected by the crin=minal system that is our governement.

Only if it's an outboard motor.

[Frozen Sooner]

The United States was the most prosperous nation in the world 100 years ago? By whose measure? I was under the impression that Great Britain was kind of the big economic power back then. The US became the world business leader after the world wars.

[85Sooner]

The United States was the most prosperous nation in the world 100 years ago? By whose measure? I was under the impression that Great Britain was kind of the big economic power back then. The US became the world business leader after the world wars.


Yeah I seem to remember the industrial revolution had a bit to do with it.

Britain still has quite a bit of wealth located in this country as well I do believe.

[Frozen Sooner]

They do. In fact, I remember reading some statistics back in the late 80s-early 90s when everyone was panicked about Japan owning so much stuff in the US that the actual biggest foreign owners of US properties were the British.

[85Sooner]

They do. In fact, I remember reading some statistics back in the late 80s-early 90s when everyone was panicked about Japan owning so much stuff in the US that the actual biggest foreign owners of US properties were the British.

I read the same information. I think tyhat is still correct.

[royalfan5]

Hell in 1913, Argentina was one of the most prosperous countries in the world. In addition, the author seems to imply global trade is bad for the United States. It really isn't, especially when you take a look at how tightly GDP growth correlates to international trade.

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. Well, yeah. GDP discounts the trade deficit, so obviously a country that has a trade deficit (like us) is going to show positive correlation between GDP and international trade.

[royalfan5]

Heh. Well, yeah. GDP discounts the trade deficit, so obviously a country that has a trade deficit (like us) is going to show positive correlation between GDP and international trade.
In General international trade has been shown to be a benefit. Countries with a surplus show a great benefit too. The United States has benefited greatly from international trade. In addition, people who rail against trade should also rail against technology, as technology destroys a lot of jobs too.

[Okla-homey]

The United States was the most prosperous nation in the world 100 years ago? By whose measure? I was under the impression that Great Britain was kind of the big economic power back then. The US became the world business leader after the world wars.

yep. WWI essentially bankrupted the crowned heads of Europe, thus clearing the stage for us to achieve economic prominence.

On other thing, sure, in the good old days, say 1880-1920, the individual tax burden was much lower. But, you could work a child for 12 hours a day in a textile mill. You could pay people a pittance to pluck poultry 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week for barely enough for them to live on. In short, the business owners could pretty much treat folks however they pleased and didn't have to worry about paying a living wage to anyone. You could pour your industrial sludge into any river or stream you wanted, and if a guy got killed or hurt badly while doing his job in your employ, well, it sucks to be him. Too bad, so sad.

Now, I'm no fan of big gubmint generally, but those progressive measures taken to knock off that crap by government, and the agencies created to oversee and guard against their recurrence on the down-low were pretty cool. IOW, these agencies and all this governmental regulation is sho-nuff 'spensive and it takes a bunch of taxation to pay for it all.

All that to say, here's the sixty-four dollar question: if we could de-regulate everything, which would save a ton of government money, time and effort, would chaos ensue, or have we as a society advanced past treating folks that badly?

[royalfan5]

yep. WWI essentially bankrupted the crowned heads of Europe, thus clearing the stage for us to achieve economic prominence.

On other thing, sure, in the good old days, say 1880-1920, the individual tax burden was much lower. But, you could work a child for 12 hours a day in a textile mill. You could pay people a pittance to pluck poultry 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week for barely enough for them to live on. In short, the business owners could pretty much treat folks however they pleased and didn't have to worry about paying a living wage to anyone. You could pour your industrial sludge into any river or stream you wanted, and if a guy got killed or hurt badly while doing his job in your employ, well, it sucks to be him. Too bad, so sad.

Now, I'm no fan of big gubmint generally, but those progressive measures taken to knock off that crap by government, and the agencies created to oversee and guard against their recurrence on the down-low were pretty cool. IOW, these agencies and all this governmental regulation is sho-nuff 'spensive and it takes a bunch of taxation to pay for it all.

All that to say, here's the sixty-four dollar question: if we could de-regulate everything, which would save a ton of government money, time and effort, would chaos ensue, or have we as a society advanced past treating folks that badly?
Things would probably go badly, because as a society we are to lazy to inform ourselves well enough to make rational decisions based on the market. The gov't regulations are there to protect the evil from abusing the stupid for the most part. I don't have a real problem with regulations, I do have a problem with the Gov't artifically distorting markets. I'm looking at ethanol as a prime example.

[soonerscuba]

All that to say, here's the sixty-four dollar question: if we could de-regulate everything, which would save a ton of government money, time and effort, would chaos ensue, or have we as a society advanced past treating folks that badly?

The sweat shop owners in East L.A. would be most thankful. Americans who bitch about regulation or taxes have got to be some of the funniest people on the planet.

[Hamhock]

But, you could work a child for 12 hours a day in a textile mill. You could pay people a pittance to pluck poultry 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week for barely enough for them to live on. In short, the business owners could pretty much treat folks however they pleased and didn't have to worry about paying a living wage to anyone. You could pour your industrial sludge into any river or stream you wanted, and if a guy got killed or hurt badly while doing his job in your employ, well, it sucks to be him.

ahhh..the good ole days.

[Mjcpr]

Only if it's an outboard motor.

Pat's right; that's the case in Oklahoma anyway.

[TUSooner]

yep. WWI essentially bankrupted the crowned heads of Europe, thus clearing the stage for us to achieve economic prominence.

On other thing, sure, in the good old days, say 1880-1920, the individual tax burden was much lower. But, you could work a child for 12 hours a day in a textile mill. You could pay people a pittance to pluck poultry 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week for barely enough for them to live on. In short, the business owners could pretty much treat folks however they pleased and didn't have to worry about paying a living wage to anyone. You could pour your industrial sludge into any river or stream you wanted, and if a guy got killed or hurt badly while doing his job in your employ, well, it sucks to be him. Too bad, so sad.

Now, I'm no fan of big gubmint generally, but those progressive measures taken to knock off that crap by government, and the agencies created to oversee and guard against their recurrence on the down-low were pretty cool. IOW, these agencies and all this governmental regulation is sho-nuff 'spensive and it takes a bunch of taxation to pay for it all.

All that to say, here's the sixty-four dollar question: if we could de-regulate everything, which would save a ton of government money, time and effort, would chaos ensue, or have we as a society advanced past treating folks that badly?
See, it's stuff like this here post that makes Homey such a fart smel... er, SMART FELLER. "Pure" conservative (or libertarian) ideology is very attractive; I like it as a basic, foundational principle. But the fact is, politicians, unlike theorists and interweb message board posters, do not write on a clean slate. They gots to deal with flesh and blood people who need lots of stuff and want even more. Heck, even Dean, the epitome of rugged independence and self-sufficiency, has been paid a decent living by the gub'ment via the USPS. I'd call that money well spent (like MY salary, too, BTW). :cool:
That is all.

[Okla-homey]

ahhh..the good ole days.

and don't forget smallpox, polio, typhoid, tetanus and tuberculosis. Cures or immunizations for these lovely diseases were found largely at taxpayer expense.:D

[mdklatt]

Everybody wants nice roads, good schools, national security, and stuff like that...so long as it's free. Taxes aren't evil, it's the corruption and wasteful spending of those taxes that we have to be wary of.

[85Sooner]

The protective laws are one thing. The deliberate redistriibution of wealth for the workers to the anti workers (PC for Lazy). IMHO every tax bill should be accompanied by an expriation date.

[Hamhock]

Everybody wants nice roads.

let the states build the roads


, good schools,

no thanks



national security,

one of the few things the federal government should actually be doing

[Okla-homey]

Everybody wants nice roads, good schools, national security, and stuff like that...so long as it's free. Taxes aren't evil, it's the corruption and wasteful spending of those taxes that we have to be wary of.

Well said. The problem I saw when I worked for the gubmint was that the bureacracy and the appropriations bills are so bloated with pork that an awful lot of real sketchy stuff gets money spent on it without anyone even really noticing. I wish Congress had to put the appropriations bills on-line before they are voted on. That would give the entire country a chance to parse them. The power of the innerweb could expose a lot of this crapola because there are wonks, who admittedly have no life, who dig doing stuff like that, who would gleefully report every piggy thing they found.

[mdklatt]

let the states build the roads


For the most part, the states do build the roads. And it works oh so well in Oklahoma.

[Mjcpr]

For the most part, the states do build the roads. And it works oh so well in Oklahoma.

How do they pay for the ones they do build? Any idea?

[mdklatt]

How do they pay for the ones they do build? Any idea?

In most states it's part of the taxes you pay as a driver...gas tax, car registration fees, etc. In Oklahoma, I'm gonna guess and say the DOT budget is funded by hunting licenses and garage sale permits or something.

Am I close?

[royalfan5]

How do they pay for the ones they do build? Any idea?
Magic.

[Pricetag]

Tolls!

[mdklatt]

Tolls!

I don't live in Tulsa, so I forgot all about that. ;)

[1stTimeCaller]

they pay for them with Garvey Bonds. It's not a great way to finance them. heck it's not even a good way to finance them. For years it was us and CO doing it this way but I just saw where other states are using them too.

[OUDoc]

Tolls!
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/09/trolls.jpg

[Frozen Sooner]

In General international trade has been shown to be a benefit. Countries with a surplus show a great benefit too. The United States has benefited greatly from international trade. In addition, people who rail against trade should also rail against technology, as technology destroys a lot of jobs too.

I know, I was just yanking your chain. International trade generally has a positive correlation to both GNP and GDP growth. Hell, the benefits of international trade get explained in ECON 1113.

[royalfan5]

I know, I was just yanking your chain. International trade generally has a positive correlation to both GNP and GDP growth. Hell, the benefits of international trade get explained in ECON 1113.
Sorry, I spend 4 hrs watching Int'l Econ lectures last night. It makes me twitchy.

[MamaMia]

Well, I think if the federal government had to get by on half what they get they could do so just fine. They need to cut out all the stupid stuff. I have a feeling that at least half of our money goes to benefit the interests of people who the politicians want big campaign donations from. In other words, half of what I pay in federal tax is probably butter-up money.

[Vaevictis]

100 years ago, we didn't have all these taxes. OTOH, 100 years ago, we also didn't have:

1. The EPA.
2. The FDA.
3. The interstate highway system.
4. The kind of military we have to maintain today.

I guess you could do away with them, but I think maybe you like having a reasonably unpolluted place to live, reasonably fresh foods, all kinds of goods shipped in cheap to your local stores, and a military unchallenged by any conventional force in the world.

Taxes are one of the prices you pay for living in a civilized country.

(and I agree -- wasteful spending is the enemy, not taxes. Kill the wasteful spending, and the taxes can be brought down to their correct levels. Sadly, in a system like ours, that just ain't gonna happen. And it's still a better system than most other places in the world have. How's it go again? "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones.")

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, I think if the federal government had to get by on half what they get they could do so just fine. They need to cut out all the stupid stuff. I have a feeling that at least half of our money goes to benefit the interests of people who the politicians want big campaign donations from. In other words, half of what I pay in federal tax is probably butter-up money.

I think everyone probably agrees with you.

I also think everyone has a different definition of "the stupid stuff."