Dukie Boys off the hook...Charges to be dropped...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Linkster (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3028515&page=1)

[Rhino]

Good. Shouldn't have been charged to begin with.

[Sooner in Tampa]

That should pretty much seal the fate of that Jackass DA then.

[KABOOKIE]

From another source......


Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong dropped the rape charges in December after the accuser changed a key detail in her story. He recused himself a few weeks later after the state bar charged him with violating several rules of professional conduct.

Among the ethics charges, Nifong is accused of withholding potentially exculpatory DNA evidence from the defense and lying to both the court and bar investigators. Nifong faces a June trial before the bar and could be disbarred if convicted.

[landrun]

They should put him trial for a crime and send his worthless butt to jail for a long... long time.

Why on Earth would you try to RUIN someone else's life when you know that they're guilty of nothing? If I were the parents of these kids I'd sue him, the state, the county, the city, the city's dog catcher etc... - you get the point. I'd be ****ed! :)

Seriously, it takes a special kind of wickedness to go out of your way to ruin someone's life for your own personal ambition. :mad:

[Sooner in Tampa]

I hope each one of those Duke boys sues the shat out of Nifong.

[jk the sooner fan]

prosecutorial privilege will/should prevent a lawsuit against nifong

[Okla-homey]

prosecutorial privilege will/should prevent a lawsuit against nifong

Hopefully he'll be disbarred. That's probably punishment enough for trying to send some innocent kids to state PYITA prison.

[landrun]

prosecutorial privilege will/should prevent a lawsuit against nifong

Well, I would thing that this would be a crime would it not?

Among the ethics charges, Nifong is accused of withholding potentially exculpatory DNA evidence from the defense and lying to both the court and bar investigators.

If he's convicted of a crime wouldn't they be able to sue?

[Okla-homey]

prosecutorial privilege will/should prevent a lawsuit against nifong

Not necessarily. If it can be proved they acted illegally, public officials can often be sued in their private capacity.

I probably wouldn't bother though. This guy probably isn't exactly rolling in dough. He's the DA of Durham NC which prolly ain't a high-paying gig. OTOH, them boys' mama's are p1ssed! Did you catch the one mama on 60 Minutes a couple of months ago? She stated she was dedicating the rest of her life to ruining Nifong's, and she has the funds to do so.:eek:

[jk the sooner fan]

Well, I would thing that this would be a crime would it not?


If he's convicted of a crime wouldn't they be able to sue?

i'm not sure that an ethics violation is a criminal statute - really depends on their state laws

[jk the sooner fan]

Not necessarily. If it can be proved they acted illegally, public officials can often be sued in their private capacity.



not all public officials can claim "prosecutorial privilege".......just prosecutors.....my aunt, a sitting judge, and former Asst US Attorney is the one that told me about this....i'm just passing on what i was told.....maybe one of the lawyers can speak in greater detail about it

[OUDoc]

She stated she was dedicating the rest of her life to ruining Nifong's, and she has the funds to do so.:eek:
Good for her. And if she runs out of money, I'll start a collection for her.

[CUinNC]

For the record...

1. the State is examining his criteria in this - he will be disbarred - they've already made up the hit list...

2. The young men should have never been charged..it was all political for nimrods re-election...

3. Most Important - shouldn't the Rev. Jesse Jackson be trippin' down to Durham today?? didn't take him but 24 hours to first get down here & slander everyone.....but no, he'll have forgotten already about this & just be finding another pot to **** in...:mad:

[okiehawk]

The charges may have been dropped but this will stick with these young men for the rest of thier lives,all because Nifong wanted to make a name for himself in the public eye and to get re-elected.If nothing else he should be disbarred for sure.

[KABOOKIE]

Jessie is busy trying to scam a piece from some "nappy-headed-ho's"

[OKLA21FAN]

For the record...

1. the State is examining his criteria in this - he will be disbarred - they've already made up the hit list...

2. The young men should have never been charged..it was all political for nimrods re-election...

3. Most Important - shouldn't the Rev. Jesse Jackson be trippin' down to Durham today?? didn't take him but 24 hours to first get down here & slander everyone.....but no, he'll have forgotten already about this & just be finding another pot to **** in...:mad:
good points, but could you also be missing something?

Shouldn't the University also take some 'punitive responsibility' for prematurely suspending these three, and even going so far as to disbanding the whole team for a time period?

[CUinNC]

good points, but could you also be missing something?

Shouldn't the University also take some 'punitive responsibility' for prematurely suspending these three, and even going so far as to disbanding the whole team for a time period?

Oh yeah & He11 yes....

The U came back on it's knees 'bout 6 months ago & said that players were being "welcomed" back with open arms & all that Skat....
Way it was worded was to try & put a chill on what most everyone knew should be counter-suits coming for the U, based on the way they ditched the players from day one...

Most think something may be coming, as now the Dads are making noise, now that this thing is playing out....I know if it was my Son in this, someone would be facing some shame in all this...

What I really want to see is that they "out" this hooker & make her face humiliation as well....

[soonerscuba]

I am glad to see this come to a good ending for those innocent guys. That said, **** dook.

[OUDoc]

**** dook.
That goes without saying. :D

[FaninAma]

For the record...

1. the State is examining his criteria in this - he will be disbarred - they've already made up the hit list...

2. The young men should have never been charged..it was all political for nimrods re-election...

3. Most Important - shouldn't the Rev. Jesse Jackson be trippin' down to Durham today?? didn't take him but 24 hours to first get down here & slander everyone.....but no, he'll have forgotten already about this & just be finding another pot to **** in...:mad:

How would this case have played out if the "victim" had been white and the alleged perpetrators black or hispanic?

Would the charges have ever been brought by the DA? Would he have dropped the charges a lot quicker? Would there be a bigger outcry by the media regarding the unethical conduct of the DA?

BTW, where is the Reverend Jackson today? Has he made a public statement?

[CUinNC]

YEP - they got her - knew it would'nt be long before the beotch was "outed"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265374,00.html

Some of the details of the Duke University rape case may never be solved, but one thing is startlingly clear: Crystal Gail Mangum, the woman who accused three college lacrosse players of locking her in a bathroom and raping her, has had a very troubled life.

Mangum has been identified by name publicly several times, including by lawyers during press conferences on the case.

According to North Carolina Department of Corrections records, she was born on July 18, 1978, to a truck driver. She grew up the youngest of three children, not far from the house where she claimed she was assaulted in 2006. Durham is a slow-paced Southern town with equally large populations of black and white residents and a history of racial tensions — including those between a wealthy, predominantly white university community and its poorer black neighbors.

In 1993, when she was 14 years old, Mangum claimed to have been kidnapped by three men, driven to a house in Creedmoor, N.C., 15 miles away from Durham, and raped. She said one of the men was her boyfriend at the time, and was a physically and emotionally abusive man seven years older than she was. Creedmoor Police Chief Ted Pollard said Mangum filed a report on the incident in Aug. 18, 1996, three years after the rapes allegedly took place. The case, however, was not pursued, because the accuser backed away from the charges out of fear for her life, according to her relatives.

Family members still disagree on what really happened in 1993. The accuser's father has said he believes his daughter was not raped or injured in that incident, while her mother has said a rape involving three men in Creedmoor did occur, but said it happened when her daughter was 17 or 18; Mangum's ex-husband, Kenneth Nathanial McNeill, has said he believes the 1993 rape accusations are true.

According to her father, the year after the alleged Creedmoor rape, Mangum saw a psychiatrist and took prescription medication for a year because trauma from the assault had left her suicidal.

After Mangum graduated from high school in 1996, McNeill, then her fiance, encouraged her to join the Navy because she wanted to "see the world," he told various news outlets. She began her two-year active duty in the summer of 1997, marrying McNeill, who is 14 years her senior, in the fall of that year. She was trained to operate radios in Virginia, then the couple drove out to California where she was stationed on an ammunition ship. But she was frequently at sea, leading to ruptures in the marriage. On June 16, 1998, she accused her husband of taking her into a wooded area and threatening to kill her, which he has denied doing. When she failed to appear at a court hearing, the complaint was dismissed. The two separated after 17 months of marriage, and that same year, Mangum was discharged from the Navy, pregnant by a sailor she has begun a relationship with. That man would have another child with her as well, but that relationship wouldn't last.

By 2002, Mangum seems to have given up her dreams of seeing the world. She was back in her hometown, trying to get a job as a stripper. In June 2002, she was arrested on a multitude of charges while working at a topless dance club called Diamond Girls. According to police, she removed a customer's keys to his taxicab while giving him a lap dance, then stole the taxi while he was in the bathroom. Police chased her at speeds up to 70 miles per hour — frequently in the wrong lane — and when an officer tried to approach her, she barely missed running him over, and struck his patrol car instead. She tried to escape again, but a flat tire ended the second leg of her getaway. Finally in custody, she was found to have a blood-alcohol content of 0.19 (the state limit is 0.08). While being questioned, Mangum passed out and was taken to a hospital.

In the end, Mangum had racked up 10 charges, including driving while impaired, driving with a revoked license (her license has been suspended three times), eluding police, reckless driving, failure to heed a siren and lights, assault on an officer and larceny of a motor vehicle. In 2003, she pleaded guilty to four misdemeanors: larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and DWI. She served three weekends in jail, was placed on two years' probation and paid $4,200 in restitution and court fees.

But the portrait of an out-of-control, unstable woman with a drinking problem isn't accurate, according to relatives, who have described Mangum as a hardworking single mom running herself ragged trying to support her children and improve her life. In 2004, she earned an associate's degree from Durham Technical Community College. At the time of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations, she was in her second year as a full-time student at North Carolina Central University, studying police psychology and maintaining a 3.0 average. She had at some point held jobs working at a nursing facility and at a $10.50-an-hour assembly-line job making catalytic reducers.

But it wasn't a happy life.

Sometime in the last two years, according to her parents, Mangum suffered a mental breakdown and was taken to a hospital in Raleigh. They said they didn't know what caused the breakdown but said she felt burdened by mounting debts. In 2003, she went to court to force the father of her children to pay child support (the court sided with her and ordered $400 from his monthly paycheck to go to child support). In 2006, Mangum was working as a stripper in at least one club and for one service. She was adamant that she never worked as a prostitute, and told police that in only one instance did she have sex with a customer, a man she thought was "nice." According to employees of clubs she worked at, she was known as a problem dancer, frequently clashing with customers and other dancers and often passing out. At least one of the club workers, however, said he never saw Mangum drink while working.

As time went on, her romantic life didn't get more stable, either. According to reports, Mangum said she'd had sex with at least three men in the days leading up to the Duke lacrosse incident, including her boyfriend and two of the men who drove her to dancing gigs. Somewhere around this time, she again became pregnant. She gave birth to a premature girl in January 2007.

But the greatest upheaval in Mangum's life was to come on March 13, 2006. That's when she and 31-year-old Kim Roberts were hired to perform a striptease at the off-campus lacrosse house on North Buchanan Blvd. near Duke.

Now that all charges against the three players she accused have been dropped, it remains to be seen whether Mangum herself will be the target of any legal retribution on behalf of the players' families.

[GrapevineSooner]

What do Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have in common (And I refuse to call them Reverends)?

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm not saying I really hope this would happen, but the darker side of me sees some poetic justice if the wench were ever actually raped and nobody believed her from having cried wolf so many times.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm not saying I really hope this would happen, but the darker side of me sees some poetic justice if the wench were ever actually raped and nobody believed her from having cried wolf so many times.


thats never a good thing, but it does happen.....

the problem is that it doesnt just effect the one victim, it effects a lot of the women that the investigator comes in contact with......all victims become suspects

or can, and thats never a good thing

[Harry Beanbag]

YEP - they got her - knew it would'nt be long before the beotch was "outed"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265374,00.html

Some of the details of the Duke University rape case may never be solved, but one thing is startlingly clear: Crystal Gail Mangum, the woman who accused three college lacrosse players of locking her in a bathroom and raping her, has had a very troubled life.

Mangum has been identified by name publicly several times, including by lawyers during press conferences on the case.

According to North Carolina Department of Corrections records, she was born on July 18, 1978, to a truck driver. She grew up the youngest of three children, not far from the house where she claimed she was assaulted in 2006. Durham is a slow-paced Southern town with equally large populations of black and white residents and a history of racial tensions — including those between a wealthy, predominantly white university community and its poorer black neighbors.

In 1993, when she was 14 years old, Mangum claimed to have been kidnapped by three men, driven to a house in Creedmoor, N.C., 15 miles away from Durham, and raped. She said one of the men was her boyfriend at the time, and was a physically and emotionally abusive man seven years older than she was. Creedmoor Police Chief Ted Pollard said Mangum filed a report on the incident in Aug. 18, 1996, three years after the rapes allegedly took place. The case, however, was not pursued, because the accuser backed away from the charges out of fear for her life, according to her relatives.

Family members still disagree on what really happened in 1993. The accuser's father has said he believes his daughter was not raped or injured in that incident, while her mother has said a rape involving three men in Creedmoor did occur, but said it happened when her daughter was 17 or 18; Mangum's ex-husband, Kenneth Nathanial McNeill, has said he believes the 1993 rape accusations are true.

According to her father, the year after the alleged Creedmoor rape, Mangum saw a psychiatrist and took prescription medication for a year because trauma from the assault had left her suicidal.

After Mangum graduated from high school in 1996, McNeill, then her fiance, encouraged her to join the Navy because she wanted to "see the world," he told various news outlets. She began her two-year active duty in the summer of 1997, marrying McNeill, who is 14 years her senior, in the fall of that year. She was trained to operate radios in Virginia, then the couple drove out to California where she was stationed on an ammunition ship. But she was frequently at sea, leading to ruptures in the marriage. On June 16, 1998, she accused her husband of taking her into a wooded area and threatening to kill her, which he has denied doing. When she failed to appear at a court hearing, the complaint was dismissed. The two separated after 17 months of marriage, and that same year, Mangum was discharged from the Navy, pregnant by a sailor she has begun a relationship with. That man would have another child with her as well, but that relationship wouldn't last.

By 2002, Mangum seems to have given up her dreams of seeing the world. She was back in her hometown, trying to get a job as a stripper. In June 2002, she was arrested on a multitude of charges while working at a topless dance club called Diamond Girls. According to police, she removed a customer's keys to his taxicab while giving him a lap dance, then stole the taxi while he was in the bathroom. Police chased her at speeds up to 70 miles per hour — frequently in the wrong lane — and when an officer tried to approach her, she barely missed running him over, and struck his patrol car instead. She tried to escape again, but a flat tire ended the second leg of her getaway. Finally in custody, she was found to have a blood-alcohol content of 0.19 (the state limit is 0.08). While being questioned, Mangum passed out and was taken to a hospital.

In the end, Mangum had racked up 10 charges, including driving while impaired, driving with a revoked license (her license has been suspended three times), eluding police, reckless driving, failure to heed a siren and lights, assault on an officer and larceny of a motor vehicle. In 2003, she pleaded guilty to four misdemeanors: larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and DWI. She served three weekends in jail, was placed on two years' probation and paid $4,200 in restitution and court fees.

But the portrait of an out-of-control, unstable woman with a drinking problem isn't accurate, according to relatives, who have described Mangum as a hardworking single mom running herself ragged trying to support her children and improve her life. In 2004, she earned an associate's degree from Durham Technical Community College. At the time of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations, she was in her second year as a full-time student at North Carolina Central University, studying police psychology and maintaining a 3.0 average. She had at some point held jobs working at a nursing facility and at a $10.50-an-hour assembly-line job making catalytic reducers.

But it wasn't a happy life.

Sometime in the last two years, according to her parents, Mangum suffered a mental breakdown and was taken to a hospital in Raleigh. They said they didn't know what caused the breakdown but said she felt burdened by mounting debts. In 2003, she went to court to force the father of her children to pay child support (the court sided with her and ordered $400 from his monthly paycheck to go to child support). In 2006, Mangum was working as a stripper in at least one club and for one service. She was adamant that she never worked as a prostitute, and told police that in only one instance did she have sex with a customer, a man she thought was "nice." According to employees of clubs she worked at, she was known as a problem dancer, frequently clashing with customers and other dancers and often passing out. At least one of the club workers, however, said he never saw Mangum drink while working.

As time went on, her romantic life didn't get more stable, either. According to reports, Mangum said she'd had sex with at least three men in the days leading up to the Duke lacrosse incident, including her boyfriend and two of the men who drove her to dancing gigs. Somewhere around this time, she again became pregnant. She gave birth to a premature girl in January 2007.

But the greatest upheaval in Mangum's life was to come on March 13, 2006. That's when she and 31-year-old Kim Roberts were hired to perform a striptease at the off-campus lacrosse house on North Buchanan Blvd. near Duke.

Now that all charges against the three players she accused have been dropped, it remains to be seen whether Mangum herself will be the target of any legal retribution on behalf of the players' families.


For those that have never been there, Durham is a total ****hole of a town. It's amazing with 4 major universities, three of which are excellent schools, within 25 miles or so that the city of Durham can be such a backwards, rundown ghetto dive.

[MojoRisen]

It's too bad these guys lives were ruined.

Not too mention how much they spent on attorney fees etc.

Knowing her background, if I were the DA I would make sure I have concrete evidence before indicting these guys. For that matter I guess they have to hold the entire Grand Jury responsible for issuing the warrents.

It's terrible how some DA's will trump charges as it is to be able to negotiate pleas etc.

[Scott D]

For those that have never been there, Durham is a total ****hole of a town. It's amazing with 4 major universities, three of which are excellent schools, within 25 miles or so that the city of Durham can be such a backwards, rundown ghetto dive.

the schools got the land for cheap because they surround a backwards, rundown ghetto dive. Look at Seton Hall as another example.

[Scott D]

personally I'd like to see some babylonian law here. Both the accuser and nifong would be put to death.

[mdklatt]

the schools got the land for cheap because they surround a backwards, rundown ghetto dive. Look at Seton Hall as another example.

Or oSu. :twinkies:

[Scott D]

Or oSu. :twinkies:

I think of that as a failed science experiment.

[mdklatt]

I think of that as a failed science experiment.


:les: SLICED PEANUT BUTTER!

[Harry Beanbag]

the schools got the land for cheap because they surround a backwards, rundown ghetto dive. Look at Seton Hall as another example.


I've never been to whatever slum in New Jersey that Seton Hall is in, but the schools in the Research Triangle have been there for a long time. I know UNC and Wake Forest are around 200 years old and Duke and NC State have to be at least as old as OU. I doubt that area was a backwards, rundown ghetto dive back then. Well, maybe backwards (it is the deep south ;) ), but the other descriptions probably didn't apply back then.

[Scott D]

Seton Hall celebrated it's 150th 'birthday' last year. East Orange, NJ is no picnic ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Most of New Jersey should be leveled so they can start over again. I got stranded in the Philadelphia airport one night, and the airline put me up in a Days Inn or something in Camden, NJ. Scary doesn't really describe the events that I witnessed and thought about that night.

[Scott D]

bwahahahahahaha Camden.

hahaha, clearly your work or the airline felt you were expendable.

[olevetonahill]

It's too bad these guys lives were ruined.

Not too mention how much they spent on attorney fees etc.

Knowing her background, if I were the DA I would make sure I have concrete evidence before indicting these guys. For that matter I guess they have to hold the entire Grand Jury responsible for issuing the warrents.

It's terrible how some DA's will trump charges as it is to be able to negotiate pleas etc.

Bro thier Lives wernt ruined . It just took the ******* da thingy a year to quit ****ing with the Boys .
Now they Sue and come out ok .

[Harry Beanbag]

bwahahahahahaha Camden.

hahaha, clearly your work or the airline felt you were expendable.


Heh, that's possible. Actually, nearly all flights were cancelled due to a hurricane and I think they were running out of hotels to put people in. The violence started at the airport when the cabbies broke a couple of those giant sliding glass doors off the side of the airport in baggage claim. They were rioting over passengers carrying vouchers from the airlines.:rolleyes:

After I finally got to my 5 star destination at about 2:00am, coming down from my buzz from drinking in the terminal bar most of the day, I didn't get much sleep due to the background ambiance that is Camden, New Jersey: gunfire, sirens, and car alarms. Had to be back at the airport at like 8 to catch my flight to Hartford. Good times indeed.

[FaninAma]

Is the former Duke Lacrosse coach going to get his job and reputation back?

I think that Duke University should come across with some $$$$ for jumping to conclusions so early.

This obviously mentally ill woman is sad and pitiful but the supposed adults in this case(Nifong, the administrators at Duke University and Jesse Jackson) need to be raked across the coals as do all of the charlatans who promote a politically correct, hypersensitive society that makes cases like this possible. It's getting to be like a modern day Salem Witch Hunt.

Thanks to them, women everywhere just became a little bit unsafer. Thanks to them, legitimate rape victims will be doubted even more when they step forward.

[jk the sooner fan]

am i alone in thinking these kids lives are NOT ruined? seriously, they were students at duke, they all come from families with money.....i'm thinking they'll be ok

[sanantoniosooner]

am i alone in thinking these kids lives are NOT ruined? seriously, they were students at duke, they all come from families with money.....i'm thinking they'll be ok
yeah, they'll be OK.

But it is pretty crappy to have a theoretically great point in your life turned into a pile of fecal matter.

[jk the sooner fan]

oh no doubt, i agree...they got hosed, but they're in a better position to deal with it than most others

[FaninAma]

am i alone in thinking these kids lives are NOT ruined? seriously, they were students at duke, they all come from families with money.....i'm thinking they'll be ok

If you mean that they will be able to pick up the pieces and have productive lives then I agree with you. OTOH, they will always have some association with this very unseemly incident and I, for one, would never want my son to be unfairly persecuted for an entire year like these young men were and I would want some answers from those responsible.

I have personally witnessed the havoc an out-of-control, incompetent DA or assistant DA can wreak on a family. I wouldn't wish that hell on anybody.

[BigRedJed]

am i alone in thinking these kids lives are NOT ruined? seriously, they were students at duke, they all come from families with money.....i'm thinking they'll be ok
Beyond that, they'll probably get some fat book deals or the like. That said, it still sucks to be them. No way I would have wanted to go through all of that.

[tommieharris91]

Can Nifong be charged for some kind of contempt of court over this?

[jk the sooner fan]

in 15 years we'll only know them from the "where are they now" section of people magazine.....they'll fade into oblivion for the masses, only those close to them will have any memory of this

none of them did any jail time....there are probably some less fortunate men sitting in prison wrongly accused and convicted of rape

i think they'll be ok........crappy deal, absolutely, but in the grand scheme of things they'll be ok

[Okla-homey]

in 15 years we'll only know them from the "where are they now" section of people magazine.....they'll fade into oblivion for the masses, only those close to them will have any memory of this

none of them did any jail time....there are probably some less fortunate men sitting in prison wrongly accused and convicted of rape

i think they'll be ok........crappy deal, absolutely, but in the grand scheme of things they'll be ok

Yes, but this did force them to miss out on the professional lacrosse draft.;)

[CUinNC]

Beyond that, they'll probably get some fat book deals or the like. That said, it still sucks to be them. No way I would have wanted to go through all of that.

Their former Coach has already said he was going to wait until it was over & then put out his own side of things in a book - which will probably nail Duke Admin to the wall - i hope he does...

They can't sue the public officials - the DA, Police, etc are all protected by law - which can't suk enough...

Nifong the DA will get his though - the ethics charges are coming...unless he's got some cache on somebody, we all hope he will get railed.

Jackson, Sharpton, that she-male Nancy Grace....I want them to freakin' apologize!!

But that will never happen....;)

[BigRedJed]

I wouldn't say there is NO chance that they can get compensated for this. In January the city of OKC payed $4 million to a guy who was wrongully convicted of rape thanks to the laboratory fraud of former OKC police chemist Joyce Gilchrist. They settled with him because they knew if it went to court he would likely get much more. So there must be some exception to that type of immunity.

I'm not saying those guys can or should get $4 million. This guy spent years in prison. But I'm betting they could get a judgement to cover legal expenses and other reasonable, provable damages (kicked off team, out of school, loss of scholarship, etc.) if they can prove the prosecutor was wreckless and malicious.

[C&CDean]

The saddest part of this whole deal is the POS mother of the Duke boy who is going to spend the rest of her life ruining Nifong's. That is at least as ****ed up as the nappy ho telling a lie and Nifong running with it.

And don't even get me started on that POS, Mega-Racist, Decent Black Folk ****er-Overer Jesse Jackson. Him and his fat-assed pal Sharpton have done more to **** up black people's lives and futures than the KKK, The Aryan Brotherhood, Skinheads, wannabe nazis, and all the other "hate" groups combined.

I can't wait for the day when this society finally moves on and racist **********s like him and Sharpie are purged from the public eye forever.

[MojoRisen]

I have seen this stuff before, luckily they were still in school and not working as Graduate Assistant or something or with their careers on the line.

I do agree they can recover- but I don't take consideration of priviledge into the equation. These guys were at Duke on Scholarship and getting degree's. Now they are associated with the rape scandal and there will always be people who feel like they did something wrong.

Not logical people- but a good amount of woman would probably distance themselves from those guys- just my two cents.

[jk the sooner fan]

Not logical people- but a good amount of woman would probably distance themselves from those guys- just my two cents.

you'd think, but OJ hasnt had any problems scoring since his "episode"

[MojoRisen]

Yeah but quality is way down... and he is involved in exctasy rings etc.

[MamaMia]

oh no doubt, i agree...they got hosed, but they're in a better position to deal with it than most others
Given the facts, I'm amazed at how long it took this case to finally come to an end. I shutter to think how many innocent people, who didn't have the money to hire high powered attorneys to fight for their freedom, are in jail at the hands of dishonest prosecutors. I also wonder how many people are financially bankrupt because they had to hire attorneys to defend them against false accusations. It sure does seem like people are guilty until they can prove that they're innocent these days, even though its suppose to be the other way around.

[MojoRisen]

Yes- it is terrible. I suspect that is why it is one of the big 10 not to do.

false witness

[OKLA21FAN]

Given the facts, I'm amazed at how long it took this case to finally come to an end. I shutter to think how many innocent people, who didn't have the money to hire high powered attorneys to fight for their freedom, are in jail at the hands of dishonest prosecutors. I also wonder how many people are financially bankrupt because they had to hire attorneys to defend them against false accusations. It sure does seem like people are guilty until they can prove that they're innocent these days, even though its suppose to be the other way around.
here is a good place to start
http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/Browse-Profiles.php

[FaninAma]

Given the facts, I'm amazed at how long it took this case to finally come to an end. I shutter to think how many innocent people, who didn't have the money to hire high powered attorneys to fight for their freedom, are in jail at the hands of dishonest prosecutors. I also wonder how many people are financially bankrupt because they had to hire attorneys to defend them against false accusations. It sure does seem like people are guilty until they can prove that they're innocent these days, even though its suppose to be the other way around.

Outstanding post, MamaMia. jk, I can only assume you haven't been involved with our modern day legal system to any great extent. You can't put a price or cost on the amount of stress, turmoil and anguish this ordeal caused the falsey accused and their families.

The deepest circles of hell are reserved for those who accuse others falsely and government officials who abuse their power and ignore justice and fairness.

[Okla-homey]

Given the facts, I'm amazed at how long it took this case to finally come to an end. I shutter to think how many innocent people, who didn't have the money to hire high powered attorneys to fight for their freedom, are in jail at the hands of dishonest prosecutors. I also wonder how many people are financially bankrupt because they had to hire attorneys to defend them against false accusations. It sure does seem like people are guilty until they can prove that they're innocent these days, even though its suppose to be the other way around.

Amen.

[jk the sooner fan]

jk, I can only assume you haven't been involved with our modern day legal system to any great extent. You can't put a price or cost on the amount of stress, turmoil and anguish this ordeal caused the falsey accused and their families.



you're right......i have zero experience with our legal system

[jk the sooner fan]

i..there are probably some less fortunate men sitting in prison wrongly accused and convicted of rape



ahem.....

[Scott D]

Is the former Duke Lacrosse coach going to get his job and reputation back?


Why would he want to go back, he's now coaching Lacrosse somewhere else.


am i alone in thinking these kids lives are NOT ruined? seriously, they were students at duke, they all come from families with money.....i'm thinking they'll be ok

Evans and Seligmann will be fine. Finnerty will sport an orange jumpsuit eventually.

[jk the sooner fan]

i was totally kidding about the zero experience with the legal system ;)

[SoonerGirl06]

They should put him trial for a crime and send his worthless butt to jail for a long... long time.

Why on Earth would you try to RUIN someone else's life when you know that they're guilty of nothing? If I were the parents of these kids I'd sue him, the state, the county, the city, the city's dog catcher etc... - you get the point. I'd be ****ed! :)

Seriously, it takes a special kind of wickedness to go out of your way to ruin someone's life for your own personal ambition. :mad:

He was a politician up for re-election.... that should answer your question right there.

[SoonerGirl06]

good points, but could you also be missing something?

Shouldn't the University also take some 'punitive responsibility' for prematurely suspending these three, and even going so far as to disbanding the whole team for a time period?

Mama's planning to sue them as well.

[SoonerGirl06]

good points, but could you also be missing something?

Shouldn't the University also take some 'punitive responsibility' for prematurely suspending these three, and even going so far as to disbanding the whole team for a time period?

Mama's planning to sue them as well.

[SoonerGirl06]

I don't understand why Crystal Gail Mangum doesn't have charges filed against her for making a false report, failure to cooperate with an investigation, etc.

Seems to me she needs to be held accountable for her actions.

[Okla-homey]

I don't understand why Crystal Gail Mangum doesn't have charges filed against her for making a false report, failure to cooperate with an investigation, etc.

Seems to me she needs to be held accountable for her actions.

IMHO, two reasons:

1) Such a thing might "chill" women from alleging rape...and far too many are afraid to come forward already

2) I think most everyone involved with the case has pretty much concluded she's mentally unstable and basically nuts.

[SoonerGirl06]

IMHO, two reasons:

1) Such a thing might "chill" women from alleging rape...and far too many are afraid to come forward already

2) I think most everyone involved with the case has pretty much concluded she's mentally unstable and basically nuts.

I can see your reasons... but numerous lives have been devastated because of her actions. Shouldn't that account for something? Not to mention the fact that she's made false accusations in the past.

If she's deemed mentally incompetent, then help should be sought. If not, charges should be brought.

[jk the sooner fan]

those are really tough cases to prove in court....and they rarely accomplish anything as far as justice goes....

[Okla-homey]

If she's deemed mentally incompetent, then help should be sought. If not, charges should be brought.

I must say, although not in any way to make light of your comment because I agree in theory, that Johnny Cochran would have been proud of that line.;)

[TUSooner]

not all public officials can claim "prosecutorial privilege".......just prosecutors.....my aunt, a sitting judge, and former Asst US Attorney is the one that told me about this....i'm just passing on what i was told.....maybe one of the lawyers can speak in greater detail about it
I actually SHOULD know about this, since I deal with many 42 USC 1983 civil rights actions. When the prosecution is willful and malicious and the proscutor knows there is no probable cause, the immunity MAY not be absolute. I'd never say this if I were in private practice, but "I don't know, for sure." :eek: Maybe I'll look it up.

[jk the sooner fan]

there was probable cause up to a certain point, at least thats my understanding.....shaky as it was, it did exist

[SoonerGirl06]

I must say, although not in any way to make light of your comment because I agree in theory, that Johnny Cochran would have been proud of that line.;)

I didn't realize I was pulling a Cochran when I wrote that. :D

[TUSooner]

there was probable cause up to a certain point, at least thats my understanding.....shaky as it was, it did exist
Go to the head of the lar skule class! Prosecutorial immunity is ABSOLUTE (even w/o probable cause).

For purposes of immunity determinations, however, the presence or absence of jurisdiction is determined with reference to whether the challenged activity falls within the category of conduct in which a prosecutor is generally authorized to engage, rather than with reference to the wrongful nature or excessiveness of the conduct.FN12 Wilful or malicious prosecutorial misconduct is egregious by definition, yet prosecutors are absolutely immune from liability for such conduct if it occurs in the exercise of their advocatory function. See Imbler, 424 U.S. at 430, 96 S.Ct. 984.


FN12. See Kerr v. Lyford, 171 F.3d 330, 337 (5th Cir.1999) (citing Stump v. Sparkman, 435 U.S. 349, 356-57, 98 S.Ct. 1099, 55 L.Ed.2d 331 (1978)). The court flat-out rejected an "egregious conduct exception".

[jk the sooner fan]

so jk does know a thing or two about the legal system

who'da thunk it

[Sooner in Tampa]

Go to the head of the lar skule class! Prosecutorial immunity is ABSOLUTE (even w/o probable cause).
The court flat-out rejected an "egregious conduct exception".WOW...now I like lawyers even more ;)

[Okla-homey]

Go to the head of the lar skule class! Prosecutorial immunity is ABSOLUTE (even w/o probable cause).
The court flat-out rejected an "egregious conduct exception".

Wilful or malicious prosecutorial misconduct is egregious by definition, yet prosecutors are absolutely immune from liability for such conduct if it occurs in the exercise of their advocatory function. See Imbler, 424 U.S. at 430, 96 S.Ct. 984.

I guess we need to define "advocatory function"

Isn't the advocatory function different than the decision to prosecute? Put another way, things said and done during the course of trial are one thing, but continuing a prosecution leading up to the trial stage after no reasonable basis to continue remains might be another kettle of fish might'nt it? Otherwise, it seems that there can be no liability for a prosecutor who presses on despite overwhelming evidence of the defendant's innocence, which seems kinda absurd to moi.

[mdklatt]

According to this (http://www.slate.com/id/2164061/pagenum/all), Nifong could be charged with obstruction of justice.

[Okla-homey]

Wilful or malicious prosecutorial misconduct is egregious by definition, yet prosecutors are absolutely immune from liability for such conduct if it occurs in the exercise of their advocatory function. See Imbler, 424 U.S. at 430, 96 S.Ct. 984.

I guess we need to define "advocatory function"

Isn't the advocatory function different than the decision to prosecute? Put another way, things said and done during the course of trial are one thing, but continuing a prosecution leading up to the trial stage after no reasonable basis to continue remains might be another kettle of fish might'nt it? Otherwise, it seems that there can be no liability for a prosecutor who presses on despite overwhelming evidence of the defendant's innocence, which seems kinda absurd to moi.

Never mind.:O

Prosecutor is absolutely immune from liability for the decision to prosecute. Hartman v. Moore, 126 S. Ct. 1695, 164 L. Ed. 2d 441 (U.S. 2006).

It is interest in protecting proper functioning of office of prosecuting attorney, rather than interest in protecting its occupant, that is of primary importance with respect to doctrine of absolute prosecutorial immunity. Kalina v. Fletcher, 522 U.S. 118, 118 S. Ct. 502, 139 L. Ed. 2d 471 (1997).

Absolute immunity that protects prosecutor's role as an advocate is not grounded in any special esteem for those who perform such functions, and certainly not from desire to shield abuses of office, but because any lesser degree of immunity could impair judicial process itself; thus, in determining scope of prosecutorial immunity, court examines nature of function performed, and not identity of actor who performed it. Kalina v. Fletcher, 522 U.S. 118, 118 S. Ct. 502, 139 L. Ed. 2d 471 (1997).

Prosecutor's activities in connection with preparation and filing of charging documents, including information and motion for arrest warrant, were protected by absolute prosecutorial immunity in § 1983 action brought by accused after charges were dropped. Kalina v. Fletcher, 118 S. Ct. 502, 139 L. Ed. 2d 471 (U.S. 1997).

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

:les: YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER!

[Fugue]

http://www.courttv.com/graphics/onair/shows/hollywood_heat/new/photos/pacino167.jpg

[SicEmBaylor]

The Duke/Durham relationship reminds me quite a bit of the whole Baylor/Waco relationship and set of circumstances.

Wealthy private school in a slummy ghetto area full of nappy headed hoes.

I'd like to think that had this happened at Baylor a group of professors wouldn't immediately call for the student's head and the Baylor community as a whole would rally around them. Especially until the facts of the case were better known.

I also think this is the case of people thinking they can exploit well to do college students and take advantage of that fact by portraying them in a negative way and exploiting that for political or even monetary success.

I'm not kidding when I say the wealthy white American male is the most oppressed demographic in the country.

[royalfan5]

The Duke/Durham relationship reminds me quite a bit of the whole Baylor/Waco relationship and set of circumstances.

Wealthy private school in a slummy ghetto area full of nappy headed hoes.

I'd like to think that had this happened at Baylor a group of professors wouldn't immediately call for the student's head and the Baylor community as a whole would rally around them. Especially until the facts of the case were better known.

I also think this is the case of people thinking they can exploit well to do college students and take advantage of that fact by portraying them in a negative way and exploiting that for political or even monetary success.

I'm not kidding when I say the wealthy white American male is the most oppressed demographic in the country.
Of course, when you order in Strippers you are making a big gamble. The Duke kids should have been smarter than that.

Also, what exactly are wealthy white men losing right now? Their money? Their freedom? Misc. other rights? I've never felt oppressed a day in my life, and yet according to you, I'm supposed to have it bad?

[TUSooner]

***
I'm not kidding when I say the wealthy white American male is the most oppressed demographic in the country.

I'd like to test that hypothesis; send money.

[SicEmBaylor]

Of course, when you order in Strippers you are making a big gamble. The Duke kids should have been smarter than that.

Also, what exactly are wealthy white men losing right now? Their money? Their freedom? Misc. other rights? I've never felt oppressed a day in my life, and yet according to you, I'm supposed to have it bad?

It's not what you're losing it's what is being projected onto you. For example, racism is clearly acceptable for everyone except for white men. You have blacks fuming hate at whites, you have asians, mexicans, etc. all making the whitey the butt of jokes and yet if that were ever done in reverse the outcry is similar to what happened to Imus.

Why is that the case? Because those communities ASSUME that a white man is naturally racist so right from the start you have one strike against you as if being white automatically makes you a racist individual therefore anytime you make a joke similar to the ones they make then you're hauled out in public to be run out of town on a rail.

Also, unfortunately, you're the workhorse of society. While huge segments of the population are given extra deference, opportunities, and even held to lower standards you are given none of those things and to suggest otherwise is often met with more cries that you are a racist.


The only thing society wants from you is to go to work, make money, and pay the taxes that go to give everyone else but you a leg up.

I'm far from a racist, but I'm pretty tired of that ****. I quite honestly do not give a **** what someone's color is so long as everyone is treated equally and fairly and no I do not believe in the equality of result argument that minorities need an extra step up in order to produce on a level comparable to whites.

[Scott D]

It's not what you're losing it's what is being projected onto you. For example, racism is clearly acceptable for everyone except for white men. You have blacks fuming hate at whites, you have asians, mexicans, etc. all making the whitey the butt of jokes and yet if that were ever done in reverse the outcry is similar to what happened to Imus.

Why is that the case? Because those communities ASSUME that a white man is naturally racist so right from the start you have one strike against you as if being white automatically makes you a racist individual therefore anytime you make a joke similar to the ones they make then you're hauled out in public to be run out of town on a rail.

Also, unfortunately, you're the workhorse of society. While huge segments of the population are given extra deference, opportunities, and even held to lower standards you are given none of those things and to suggest otherwise is often met with more cries that you are a racist.


The only thing society wants from you is to go to work, make money, and pay the taxes that go to give everyone else but you a leg up.

I'm far from a racist, but I'm pretty tired of that ****. I quite honestly do not give a **** what someone's color is so long as everyone is treated equally and fairly and no I do not believe in the equality of result argument that minorities need an extra step up in order to produce on a level comparable to whites.

this post is so full of horse **** I wouldn't even know where to begin telling Dean where to start shovelling to get rid of it.

[SicEmBaylor]

this post is so full of horse **** I wouldn't even know where to begin telling Dean where to start shovelling to get rid of it.
You're just not feeling adequately repressed.

[Scott D]

You're just not feeling adequately repressed.

Either that, or I don't think it's anywhere near as simple or ludicrous as you presented.

[MojoRisen]

Kill whitey

[SicEmBaylor]

Let me ask this,
If I were to start a Caucasian student organizaton similar to the ones that exist for latino, black, asian, etc. students then what would be the result? If color really means nothing and everyone is working toward a color blind society then why even have organizations like that and if they are going to exist why shouldn't everyone be held to the same standard when creating them?

[SoonerGirl06]

this post is so full of horse **** I wouldn't even know where to begin telling Dean where to start shovelling to get rid of it.

Back up your argument please. I'd like to hear more of an explanation than "this post is so full of horse ****".

[royalfan5]

Let me ask this,
If I were to start a Caucasian student organizaton similar to the ones that exist for latino, black, asian, etc. students then what would be the result? If color really means nothing and everyone is working toward a color blind society then why even have organizations like that and if they are going to exist why shouldn't everyone be held to the same standard when creating them?
Is it really oppression if you don't get to form some bull**** student organization at some college to celebrate being white? The way I see it, if I have no restrictions upon my person because of my color, I'm not being oppressed. I'll start bitching about being oppressed when I am denied a freedom because of my color, until them I'm pretty ****ing content with my station in life. I don't see any real movement to take freedom away from whites, because I don't view losing the ability to form a hissyfit organization at college an actual right, seriously other than proving how big of a d-bag you are would be proved by forming a white students organization?

[SicEmBaylor]

Let me refocus the point of bringing all this up...

If those kids hadn't been rich white boys then this prosecution would NEVER have gone as far as it had. The outrage from the local community and the demand for justice at whatever cost since the victim was black and the boys were rich and white created the perception that this was a bunch of rich white kids assaulting a minority. Comments all across the black community at the time back that up including from people like Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and even the Black Panthers who STILL believe that this was a race based crime.

Nifong got re-elected by pitting the prejudices of minorities against rich white males with a pledge to prosecute at all costs regardless of the facts in the case. That's why I say white men are held to a standard that nobody else seems to be held up to.

In saying this I'm not suggesting that minorities don't suffer from racism as well and god knows there are probably plenty of them in prison for crimes they did not commit, but I think it's time we looked at the other side of this.

[Scott D]

Let me ask this,
If I were to start a Caucasian student organizaton similar to the ones that exist for latino, black, asian, etc. students then what would be the result? If color really means nothing and everyone is working toward a color blind society then why even have organizations like that and if they are going to exist why shouldn't everyone be held to the same standard when creating them?

How many student organizations exist that it's somewhat 'unspoken' that the membership is caucasian only? I'm not saying it's right, however it goes on just as much. Maybe if people spent more time going after all derogatory patterns instead of just a few, then little ole SicEm might not feel he's being persecuted for being silverspooned.

If you go after Imus, you need to go after 50 Cent. If you go after Howard Stern, you need to go after Michelle Malkin. Vigilance in being just isn't just situational, and it shouldn't matter whom the target is.

Ironically, as funny as he was in his presentation, Dave Chappelle taking himself off of the air was as smart a move as CBS suspending Imus before they caved to advertising pressure.

[SicEmBaylor]

Is it really oppression if you don't get to form some bull**** student organization at some college to celebrate being white?
It's not the point of actually starting the organization. I'd never do it and I'm not sure what the point would be, but I think looking at what the results of trying would be is a clear indication of the different standard that Caucasians are held to.


The way I see it, if I have no restrictions upon my person because of my color, I'm not being oppressed. I'll start bitching about being oppressed when I am denied a freedom because of my color, until them I'm pretty ****ing content with my station in life. I don't see any real movement to take freedom away from whites, because I don't view losing the ability to form a hissyfit organization at college an actual right, seriously other than proving how big of a d-bag you are would be proved by forming a white students organization?

Look, all I am saying is that there is an unfair standard regarding racism and what is acceptable from a white person as compared to a minority race. The example of a student organization is just showing that. I'm not advocating actually creating a white organization.

[SicEmBaylor]

How many student organizations exist that it's somewhat 'unspoken' that the membership is caucasian only? I'm not saying it's right, however it goes on just as much. Maybe if people spent more time going after all derogatory patterns instead of just a few, then little ole SicEm might not feel he's being persecuted for being silverspooned.

If you go after Imus, you need to go after 50 Cent. If you go after Howard Stern, you need to go after Michelle Malkin. Vigilance in being just isn't just situational, and it shouldn't matter whom the target is.

Ironically, as funny as he was in his presentation, Dave Chappelle taking himself off of the air was as smart a move as CBS suspending Imus before they caved to advertising pressure.

I have to run to class, but I don't really disagree with any of that. That's my point, hold everyone to the same standard and not just focus on white guys who are racist and using that as either a political tool in both the case of the Duke boys and Imus. I don't really like comparing the two though since Imus was actually guilty of something.

[mdklatt]

I quite honestly do not give a **** what someone's color is so long as everyone is treated equally and fairly

Do you really think everbody is being treated equally and fairly all the time? Look at the Don Imus threads. His stupid remarks are now somehow the fault of rap music, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the Rutgers basketball team.

[royalfan5]

Let me refocus the point of bringing all this up...

If those kids hadn't been rich white boys then this prosecution would NEVER have gone as far as it had. The outrage from the local community and the demand for justice at whatever cost since the victim was black and the boys were rich and white created the perception that this was a bunch of rich white kids assaulting a minority. Comments all across the black community at the time back that up including from people like Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and even the Black Panthers who STILL believe that this was a race based crime.

Nifong got re-elected by pitting the prejudices of minorities against rich white males with a pledge to prosecute at all costs regardless of the facts in the case. That's why I say white men are held to a standard that nobody else seems to be held up to.

In saying this I'm not suggesting that minorities don't suffer from racism as well and god knows there are probably plenty of them in prison for crimes they did not commit, but I think it's time we looked at the other side of this.
I think their being d-bag lacrosse players who were dumb enough to order a stripper in has a lot more to do with it. Also, is it pretty ****ing dumb to base your argument on the actions of people on the fringes of politics? I bet people in Durham's dislike of Dukies has a lot more to do with them being d-bags than their race. 18-22 year white males represent the largest group of d-bags in America, and that fact is only amplified by their going to Duke. Of course people aren't going to like them. The were stupid, and put themselves in a situation where things could go badly for them and it did.

[Scott D]

Let me refocus the point of bringing all this up...

If those kids hadn't been rich white boys then this prosecution would NEVER have gone as far as it had. The outrage from the local community and the demand for justice at whatever cost since the victim was black and the boys were rich and white created the perception that this was a bunch of rich white kids assaulting a minority. Comments all across the black community at the time back that up including from people like Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and even the Black Panthers who STILL believe that this was a race based crime.

Anything Sharpton and Jackson do is politically motivated. However, had it been a bunch of 'ghetto based' black guys who'd allegedly raped a white prostitute. They'd already be convicted and in prison even if they didn't do anything. So the only thing that those three being well to do and white did, was just draw out the entire circus longer than it would have been.


Nifong got re-elected by pitting the prejudices of minorities against rich white males with a pledge to prosecute at all costs regardless of the facts in the case. That's why I say white men are held to a standard that nobody else seems to be held up to.

What Nifong did was simply put 'politics' you know, your favorite subject. Are you losing the stomach for playing the politics game yet? As for the last part it's called being the majority, if you don't like it...move to Mexico or another country where white males are in the minority.


In saying this I'm not suggesting that minorities don't suffer from racism as well and god knows there are probably plenty of them in prison for crimes they did not commit, but I think it's time we looked at the other side of this.

The problem isn't looking at it from any side, the problem is that there are sides.

[mdklatt]

Let me ask this,
If I were to start a Caucasian student organizaton

Like Baylor University?

:pop:

[Scott D]

Back up your argument please. I'd like to hear more of an explanation than "this post is so full of horse ****".

you just want to hear my brilliant eloquence that makes you swoon as such.

[MojoRisen]

Anybody who is still stuck on this I need a step up in the proffessional world is really not welcome at my happy hour invite.

I am sick and tired of the PC from one side and not the other- most people with a sense of humor laughed very hard at Imus's comments including black folk.

It wasn't right- and the reverse racism on the other issue is rampent.

[Scott D]

Anybody who is still stuck on this I need a step up in the proffessional world is really not welcome at my happy hour invite.

I am sick and tired of the PC from one side and not the other- most people with a sense of humor laughed very hard at Imus's comments including black folk.

It wasn't right- and the reverse racism on the other issue is rampent.

[steppin fetchit]oh noes, whitey bein oppressed now. whatcha gonna do baws?[/steppin fetchit]

[mdklatt]

I'll start bitching about being oppressed when I am denied a freedom because of my color

But you're not allowed to use the "N" word without consequences, even though black people use that word all time in a completely different context!

:les: IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!!

[MojoRisen]

Drink with non racist blacks whites and hispanics!

[C&CDean]

this post is so full of horse **** I wouldn't even know where to begin telling Dean where to start shovelling to get rid of it.

While I won't ever jump wholesale onto a thought/post of Sic'em - being what he is and all - there's some things here that ring true.

Let me share a little experience of my own.

It's 1998, I'm attending grad school at OU, working on a Master of Human Relations degree. One of my core courses was "Problems in Human Relations." The professor was one Dorscine Spigner-Littles, and she began the first night of class with this statement: "People, this class is called Problems in Human Relations. I'll break it down and make it simple. White males are the problem in human relations." Paraphrased, of course. I happened to be the only white male in the class - which was mostly female/black future social workers.

Then, she spent the rest of the semester attempting to prove her thesis. I happened to be the only white male in the class of about 35 people. Everything wrong in society - from urban decay to high prices for fuel was blamed on the white male. Slavery, social unrest, wars, famine, disease, you name it. My fault.

MLK worship. Clinton worship. Reagan bashing. Total disregard for anyone actually working themselves out of their hole (which I suggested), and everything about social "programs." Handouts. Affirmative Action. Quotas.

And I was completely expected to sit in the back seat and give up all I've worked for my entire life just because I was white, and they were black. Somehow, they deserved everything I worked for. Somehow I personally ****ed up their lives and made them poor.

I managed an "A" in the class, and so did everybody else. And some of the final projects turned in weren't even 6th grade level. We worked in groups, and I saw a lot of the **** those gals were writing. Funny thing is, the ones in my group all turned to me to edit/proof/type/copy/and present the final project. Ironic?

Anyhow, with the mindset that racist bitches like Dorscine Spigner-Littles spew on brainless college students obviously is absorbed by many. Me? **** her. She's big, she's black, she's educated, but she ain't got **** on me. She simply ain't smart enough to take what I've earned unless I give it to her. Many others aren't as fortunate/strong as I am though.

[SoonerGirl06]

you just want to hear my brilliant eloquence that makes you swoon as such.

Ahhh.... I love a brilliant man who knows how to articulate his point.


I'll introduce him to you sometime. ;)

[Scott D]

But you're not allowed to use the "N" word without consequences, even though black people use that word all time in a completely different context!

:les: IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!!

every context of using it is wrong. More people need to threaten the pop culture environment that cultivates a prison mentality.

[Scott D]

While I won't ever jump wholesale onto a thought/post of Sic'em - being what he is and all - there's some things here that ring true.

Let me share a little experience of my own.

It's 1998, I'm attending grad school at OU, working on a Master of Human Relations degree. One of my core courses was "Problems in Human Relations." The professor was one Dorscine Spigner-Littles, and she began the first night of class with this statement: "People, this class is called Problems in Human Relations. I'll break it down and make it simple. White males are the problem in human relations." Paraphrased, of course. I happened to be the only white male in the class - which was mostly female/black future social workers.

Then, she spent the rest of the semester attempting to prove her thesis. I happened to be the only white male in the class of about 35 people. Everything wrong in society - from urban decay to high prices for fuel was blamed on the white male. Slavery, social unrest, wars, famine, disease, you name it. My fault.

MLK worship. Clinton worship. Reagan bashing. Total disregard for anyone actually working themselves out of their hole (which I suggested), and everything about social "programs." Handouts. Affirmative Action. Quotas.

And I was completely expected to sit in the back seat and give up all I've worked for my entire life just because I was white, and they were black. Somehow, they deserved everything I worked for. Somehow I personally ****ed up their lives and made them poor.

I managed an "A" in the class, and so did everybody else. And some of the final projects turned in weren't even 6th grade level. We worked in groups, and I saw a lot of the **** those gals were writing. Funny thing is, the ones in my group all turned to me to edit/proof/type/copy/and present the final project. Ironic?

Anyhow, with the mindset that racist bitches like Dorscine Spigner-Littles spew on brainless college students obviously is absorbed by many. Me? **** her. She's big, she's black, she's educated, but she ain't got **** on me. She simply ain't smart enough to take what I've earned unless I give it to her. Many others aren't as fortunate/strong as I am though.

She like Jackson and Sharpton and few other mouthpieces do what in the late 1800s was called Carpetbagging, but what I call today "pandering to the lowest common denominator". Why actually work for what is right, when it's just so much easier to blame everyone else.

[mdklatt]

If those kids hadn't been rich white boys then this prosecution would NEVER have gone as far as it had.

You're right. Poor people and minorities never get railroaded by the legal system. :rolleyes:

If those kids hadn't been rich white boys they probably wouldn't have been able to muster all the legal and PR resources that enabled them to fight Nifong.

[Scott D]

Ahhh.... I love a brilliant man who knows how to articulate his point.


I'll introduce him to you sometime. ;)

I'd feel somewhat odd having an introductory conversation with myself. ;)

[TexasLidig8r]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53665

I'm still waiting for the public apologies of the "right honorable" :rolleyes: Jesse and Big Al...

I'm holding my breath... ok.. ready... go...

[SoonerGirl06]

I'm still waiting for the public apologies of the "right honorable" :rolleyes: Jesse and Big Al...

I'm holding my breath... ok.. ready... go...

Darling... you're gonna be holding your breath for a very long time 'cause that ain't EVAR happening.

[SoonerGirl06]

they probably wouldn't have been able to muster all the legal and PR resources that enabled them to fight Nifong.

But Jackson, Sharpton, the New Black Panther Party, etc. would come to their defenses... there's their legal and PR Resources right there.

[SoonerGirl06]

I'd feel somewhat odd having an introductory conversation with myself. ;)

Kinda like the flip floppin you do on the issues? ;)

[JohnnyMack]

I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whitey's I see......

[Scott D]

But Jackson, Sharpton, the New Black Panther Party, etc. would come to their defenses... there's their legal and PR Resources right there.

I doubt you'd have heard anything more than a minimal peep out of those suspects. Unless of course the case was being railroaded into a trial extremely fast.

[Scott D]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53665

I'm still waiting for the public apologies of the "right honorable" :rolleyes: Jesse and Big Al...

I'm holding my breath... ok.. ready... go...

Promise?

hey guys, lid died of self inflicted asphyxiation, lets have a party

[jk the sooner fan]

this post is so full of horse **** I wouldn't even know where to begin telling Dean where to start shovelling to get rid of it.

how is it full of horse ****?

[Scott D]

how is it full of horse ****?

no really...please, let me know who it is keeping the white man down. Is it......the white man?

[jk the sooner fan]

i didnt read that the white man is being kept down, you must have read a different post than i did

i thought there was some truth to what he wrote....we see examples of it all the damn time

i'd be curious to know your feelings on some of what bill cosby has been preaching to the black community

[TUSooner]

I just get fed up with whiteys getting bashed for "insensitivity" whenever they bring up a blunt truth in an awkward way, while the whole of popular culture from rappers to reality TV to you-name-it is all about anything BUT "sensitivity." What a hypocritical puddle of sh!t we live in.
Frikkiin cry-babies who always blame EVERYTHING on somebody or something else are the problem with human relations.

[Scott D]

i didnt read that the white man is being kept down, you must have read a different post than i did

i thought there was some truth to what he wrote....we see examples of it all the damn time

i'd be curious to know your feelings on some of what bill cosby has been preaching to the black community

I would assume this is in reference to accountability, while speaking out against the prevalent 'gangsta rap' mentality? I support it wholeheartedly, and I'd probably take a moment to listen to Rev.(s) Jackson and Sharpton if they were as willing to get people together and protest at the offices of Def Jam or Columbia Records as they were to threaten to do the same at the CBS offices. My thoughts on the whole matter in regards to both the Duke incident and the Imus incident are in complete agreement with those of Jason Whitlock in his article that was quote pasted into the Imus thread.

I'd love nothing more than a backlash against the record companies on a par with the blowing up of Disco records, or the bonfires of Beatles albums after John Lennon's "Bigger than Jesus" quip.

Then again, unlike many of you (sf.com posters, not caucasians), I actually respect Jason Whitlock even if I don't always agree with what he has to say.

[C&CDean]

Oreo.:bsmf:

[Scott D]

saltine :norm:

[jk the sooner fan]

i liked and applauded the whitlock article

i'd say more but i dont want to be labeled the board imus.....

[C&CDean]

saltine :norm:

Tou. Che.

[Scott D]

i liked and applauded the whitlock article

i'd say more but i dont want to be labeled the board imus.....

I'm pretty sure the 'revs' don't frequent SF.com ;)

and I doubt you'd be labelled a former coke junkie who couldn't make a decent joke to save his life ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

Ahhh.... I love a brilliant man who knows how to articulate his point.


I'll introduce him to you sometime. ;)

Scott and I have met already.

[Scott D]

Scott and I have met already.

she said brilliant and articulate. Not weak willed and cornfused.

[SoonerGirl06]

I would assume this is in reference to accountability, while speaking out against the prevalent 'gangsta rap' mentality? I support it wholeheartedly, and I'd probably take a moment to listen to Rev.(s) Jackson and Sharpton if they were as willing to get people together and protest at the offices of Def Jam or Columbia Records as they were to threaten to do the same at the CBS offices. My thoughts on the whole matter in regards to both the Duke incident and the Imus incident are in complete agreement with those of Jason Whitlock in his article that was quote pasted into the Imus thread.

Then again, unlike many of you (sf.com posters, not caucasians), I actually respect Jason Whitlock even if I don't always agree with what he has to say.


I can't believe I'm about to say this.... but I actually agree with you on this.

[Scott D]

I can't believe I'm about to say this.... but I actually agree with you on this.

See, it's not that dirty to say it ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Why do people constantly say that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need to do something about misogyny and racism in rap music? Both of them have been outspoken about the issue already.

Sharpton called for a 90 day ban on gangsta rap on radio stations in 2005, while Jackson has been quoted recently as saying that racist lyrics in rap are just as bad as what Imus did.

[SicEmBaylor]

Why do people constantly say that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need to do something about misogyny and racism in rap music? Both of them have been outspoken about the issue already.

Sharpton called for a 90 day ban on gangsta rap on radio stations in 2005, while Jackson has been quoted recently as saying that racist lyrics in rap are just as bad as what Imus did.

Quiet you!
Start feeling repressed!

[Scott D]

Why do people constantly say that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need to do something about misogyny and racism in rap music? Both of them have been outspoken about the issue already.

Sharpton called for a 90 day ban on gangsta rap on radio stations in 2005, while Jackson has been quoted recently as saying that racist lyrics in rap are just as bad as what Imus did.

What I'm saying is they need to be consistent in the message. If they are willing to organize protests of a broadcast station in the aftermath of comments, then they should be willing more often to be doing the same protests at the headquarters of the record labels that release that stuff.

Sharpton's call for the 90 day ban got taken as seriously as Jackson's call for us to not wear Nike shoes/clothing back in July of 1990.