No Child Left Without an iPod

[SicEmBaylor]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007704060333
Editorial

An iPod for every kid? Are they !#$!ing idiots?

We have come to the conclusion that the crisis Michigan faces is not a shortage of revenue, but an excess of idiocy. Facing a budget deficit that has passed the $1 billion mark, House Democrats Thursday offered a spending plan that would buy a MP3 player or iPod for every school child in Michigan.

No cost estimate was attached to their hare-brained idea to "invest" in education. Details, we are promised, will follow.

The Democrats, led by their increasingly erratic speaker Andy Dillon of Redford Township, also pledge $100 million to make better downtowns.

Their plan goes beyond cluelessness. Democrats are either entirely indifferent to the idea that extreme hard times demand extreme belt tightening, or they are bone stupid. We lean toward the latter.

We say that because the House plan also keeps alive, again without specifics, the promise of tax hikes.

The range of options, according to Rep. Steve Tobocman, D-Detroit, includes raising the income tax, levying a 6 percent tax on some services, and taxing junk food and soda.

We wonder how financially strained Michigan residents will feel about paying higher taxes to buy someone else's kid an iPod.

That they would include such frivolity in a crisis budget plan indicates how tough it will be to bring real spending reform to Michigan.

Senate Republicans issued a plan a week ago that eliminates the deficit with hard spending cuts. Now their leader, Mike Bishop of Rochester Hills, is sounding wobbly, suggesting he might compromise on a tax hike.

We hope Bishop is reading the polls that say three-quarters of Michigan residents oppose higher taxes.

There are few things in the House budget outline from which to forge a compromise.

For example, Dillon says he would shift the burden of business taxes to companies that operate in Michigan, but don't have a facility here. The certain outcome of that plan is to drive even more businesses out of Michigan.

About all we see of merit is a call for government consolidation and a demand that state employees contribute more to their retirement benefits -- which is no more than House Democrats suggested for future state lawmakers a few weeks ago.

We find it ironic that the Democrats are proposing floating $5 billion in revenue bonds to pay for retiree health care, when Gov. Jennifer Granholm vetoed a nearly identical plan by Oakland County because it would cost the state money.

Instead of advocating cost-saving changes in public school teacher pension and health plans, Dillon suggests more study. There have been plenty of studies of the issue, with the conclusion being that hundreds of millions of dollars could be saved through reforms. Michigan needs action, not more study committees.

Dillon also proposes that the state cover 50 percent of the cost of catastrophic health insurance for everyone in the place, but once again doesn't specify a funding source.

Stop the stupidity. Michigan can't tax or spend its way out of this economic catastrophe.

The only responsible option is to bring spending in line with current revenues. The mission must be to expand the tax base, rather than to expand taxes, by crafting a budget that encourages growth.

We won't get there by wasting money on early Christmas presents for Michigan kids.

[Vaevictis]

I think that this is the first time that I've been actually, truly stunned by the stupidity of a politician.

I really didn't think it was possible. I stand corrected.

[King Crimson]

when economists and politicians are in charge of education, bad things happen.

[SicEmBaylor]

when politicians are in charge of economics and education bad things happen.

Fixed it for ya.

[Hamhock]

when politicians are in charge, bad things happen.


fixed

[King Crimson]

no, when economists and politicians are in charge of education, bad things happen.

economists are some of the dumbest people on planet earth.

[NormanPride]

someone got dumped by an economist in college...

[Mongo]

Scott D could rake in the ipods if he claimed all those bastard children he has left behind:D

[SicEmBaylor]

someone got dumped by an economist in college...

I doubt it, women can't economate.

[King Crimson]

someone got dumped by an economist in college...

economists are the dumbest people in the world.

[NormanPride]

economists are the dumbest people in the world.

So she threw all your crap on the front lawn? Harsh.

[Czar Soonerov]

I guess you would rather have dead children? Commie.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiki/445618364/

Ipod saves Soldier's Life

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/3710/44561836492afb0adebvi2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The back of the Ipod.

Photos sent to me by my friend Danny with this caption:

My wife’s uncle works in a military hospital and told me about this. Its pretty amazing. Kevin Garrad (3rd Infantry Division) was on a street patrol in Iraq (Tikrit I believe) and as he rounded the corner of a building an armed (AK-47) insurgent came from the other side.

The two of them were within just a few feet of each other when they opened fire. The insurgent was killed and Kevin was hit in the left chest where his IPod was in his jacket pocket. It slowed the bullet down enough that it did not completely penetrate his body armor. Fortunately, Kevin suffered no wound.

I thought it was a great story so I posted them here.

UPDATE 04.05.07:
I just got an email via flickr from an engineer at Apple. He showed the photos around the office and want to help get the guy a new iPod. So it's looking good that it will be replaced.

[Frozen Sooner]

economists are the dumbest people in the world.

I'll pretend I didn't hear that.

[King Crimson]

i've taught college courses for 6 years at two US News and WR top 100 national universities and *by far* the least mentally agile students i've had are without almost any exception either: Business school students, Economics majors, or journalism majors.

there are not generally speaking people who know *less* about the world than the 3 categories above.

[SicEmBaylor]

i've taught college courses for 6 years at two US News and WR top 100 national universities and *by far* the least mentally agile students i've had are without almost any exception are either: Business school students, Economics majors, or journalism majors.

there are not generally speaking people who know *less* about the world than the 3 categories above.

I really wouldn't rule out anyone from the communications department and please don't forget the good folks from the School of Education.

[Vaevictis]

Really, the question I would have is: What kind of course do you teach, and what other kinds of students are in the class?

(I've met a couple of fairly smart economics wonks while taking graduate level math classes, for example. Mathematically smart, anyway.)

[King Crimson]

i'm not going to spend the rest of the afternoon talking about this....and sic'em is right, too. excoriate me, think i'm wrong, fine. i really don't care. everyone is an expert on higher education.....

i teach mass comm/telecomm classes....both lower division and upper division.

because of core requirements at CU and U of Denver i get all kinds. good students come from all over the map; but as i say, there is a serious trend of dumbness from biz school students, econ, and journalism. neither category precludes the other.

what i'm saying is when economists run higher education, it sucks. 90% of the time these people don't have any clue about what happens in research or the classroom.

[royalfan5]

i'm not going to spend the rest of the afternoon talking about this....and sic'em is right, too. excoriate me, think i'm wrong, fine. i really don't care. everyone is an expert on higher education.....

i teach mass comm/telecomm classes....both lower division and upper division.

because of core requirements at CU and U of Denver i get all kinds. good students come from all over the map; but as i say, there is a serious trend of dumbness from biz school students, econ, and journalism. neither category precludes the other.
It probably varies with the school, most the mass comm majors at my undergraduate school needed to wear velcro shoes because they couldn't master shoelaces.

[Vaevictis]

Really, I don't disagree with the premise that there's a good hunk of stupidity in any of the business/economics oriented schools, it's just that the true economists -- ie, the ones with a PhD from a decent school -- well, I doubt that they're particularly stupid with respect to the general population.

[SicEmBaylor]

It probably varies with the school, most the mass comm majors at my undergraduate school needed to wear velcro shoes because they couldn't master shoelaces.

That's been my experience as well. Again, don't rule out the Education majors.
I think a lot of it has to do with focus though. I know a lot of bad biz majors, but typically they at least know their field. I think that's true of most people.

Hopefully whatever a student is majoring in is the subject in which that student is proficient...their knowledge may be very deep but not necessarily wide. Unfortunately, the knowledge of education majors seem to be neither deep nor wide.

[King Crimson]

Really, I don't disagree with the premise that there's a good hunk of stupidity in any of the business/economics oriented schools, it's just that the true economists -- ie, the ones with a PhD from a decent school -- well, I doubt that they're particularly stupid with respect to the general population.

well, sure. but, by the same token....i don't know you but i do know far more PhD's than most people and many of them are petty bureaucrats and dumb as a sidewalk.

[SoonerBBall]

i've taught college courses for 6 years at two US News and WR top 100 national universities and *by far* the least mentally agile students i've had are without almost any exception either: Business school students, Economics majors, or journalism majors.

there are not generally speaking people who know *less* about the world than the 3 categories above.

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen on this board, and that is saying a lot. Dolemite posts here. Please, though, enlighten me on how your major in college has soooo much to do with how much you know about the world.

What are your degrees in? Just for the sake of comparison.

[Frozen Sooner]

i'm not going to spend the rest of the afternoon talking about this....and sic'em is right, too. excoriate me, think i'm wrong, fine. i really don't care. everyone is an expert on higher education.....

i teach mass comm/telecomm classes....both lower division and upper division.

because of core requirements at CU and U of Denver i get all kinds. good students come from all over the map; but as i say, there is a serious trend of dumbness from biz school students, econ, and journalism. neither category precludes the other.

what i'm saying is when economists run higher education, it sucks. 90% of the time these people don't have any clue about what happens in research or the classroom.

And any Econ student would tell you that your anecdotal evidence in no way validates your claim. See, we actually have to take classes where statistical rigor is taught.

That's OK, though. I still like you.

[Vaevictis]

well, sure. but, by the same token....i don't know you but i do know far more PhD's than most people and many of them are petty bureaucrats and dumb as a sidewalk.

Yeah, but nothing you said there suggests that they're dumber than the rest of the population. :D

[King Crimson]

Please, though, enlighten me on how your major in college has soooo much to do with how much you know about the world.

Btw, what do you teach and what are your degrees in? Just for the sake of comparison.

i have a BA from Vanderbilt in Poli Sci
MA from CU in Media Studies/Telecom
PhD from CU in Media Studies/Telecom


I'm Phi Beta Kappa, and graduated Magna Cum Laude.

i'm not going to play this game with you.

sorry if i hurt your feelings. like i say, every one is an expert on higher education.

[rufnek05]

I doubt it, women can't economate.


what ever. my macro econ teacher was a grad student, and she was hot. and knew what she was talking about.

never had a problem going to that class

[King Crimson]

And any Econ student would tell you that your anecdotal evidence in no way validates your claim. See, we actually have to take classes where statistical rigor is taught.

That's OK, though. I still like you.

i took stats in the econ department for my MA.

[Frozen Sooner]

i took stats in the econ department for my MA.

See? There you go. :D

[King Crimson]

See? There you go. :D

fair enough.

[Vaevictis]

i took stats in the econ department for my MA.

Just because I'm an ***, I'm going to comment that clearly, if economists are some of the dumbest bunch of people around, then your taking stats in an econ department would suggest that you are likely to be less than competent in that subject matter ;)

[SoonerBBall]

i have a BA from Vanderbilt in Poli Sci
MA from CU in Media Studies/Telecom
PhD from CU in Media Studies/Telecom


I'm Phi Beta Kappa, and graduated Magna Cum Laude.

i'm not going to play this game with you.

sorry if i hurt your feelings. like i say, every one is an expert on higher education.

You're not gonna play what game? The game where you insult a large group of people than take your ball and go home? That's fine, I really didn't expect any more from a "doctor" such as yourself.

[King Crimson]

Just because I'm an ***, I'm going to comment that clearly, if economists are some of the dumbest bunch of people around, then your taking stats in an econ department would suggest that you are likely to be less than competent in that subject matter ;)

exactly, it was required as a quantitative research methods class...

[King Crimson]

You're not gonna play what game? The game where you insult a large group of people than take your ball and go home? That's fine, I really didn't expect any more from a "doctor" such as yourself.

yeah, the old anti-intellectual posture. you insulted me, personally.

i get paid to do what i do. argue that away.

you asked a question, i answered it.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'll actually agree, though. There's a lot of econ majors at many major universities that are actually majoring in "Econ Lite." They look at the degree requirements and say "Oh, I don't have to take anything but Business Calc for math-that'll be easy." Unfortunately, these poor souls end up not really learning Econ.

I'll give you an example:

Intermediate Price Theory at OU, taught by Sean Ledgerwood. Half the class ended up getting a terrible grade, because Sean actually thought that Econ students should know the calculus. About midway through the class, he started doing LaGrange analysis on isoquants.

It's a flat-out embarassment that econ degrees don't require the entire Calc series as well as differential equations. There is NO way that someone claiming an econ degree should be taken seriously without these courses.

My apologies to anyone with an econ degree on here who never took those courses.

[royalfan5]

I'll actually agree, though. There's a lot of econ majors at many major universities that are actually majoring in "Econ Lite." They look at the degree requirements and say "Oh, I don't have to take anything but Business Calc for math-that'll be easy." Unfortunately, these poor souls end up not really learning Econ.

I'll give you an example:

Intermediate Price Theory at OU, taught by Sean Ledgerwood. Half the class ended up getting a terrible grade, because Sean actually thought that Econ students should know the calculus. About midway through the class, he started doing LaGrange analysis on isoquants.

It's a flat-out embarassment that econ degrees don't require the entire Calc series as well as differential equations. There is NO way that someone claiming an econ degree should be taken seriously without these courses.

My apologies to anyone with an econ degree on here who never took those courses.
Hooray Isoquants.

[SoonerBBall]

I'll actually agree, though. There's a lot of econ majors at many major universities that are actually majoring in "Econ Lite." They look at the degree requirements and say "Oh, I don't have to take anything but Business Calc for math-that'll be easy." Unfortunately, these poor souls end up not really learning Econ.

I'll give you an example:

Intermediate Price Theory at OU, taught by Sean Ledgerwood. Half the class ended up getting a terrible grade, because Sean actually thought that Econ students should know the calculus. About midway through the class, he started doing LaGrange analysis on isoquants.

It's a flat-out embarassment that econ degrees don't require the entire Calc series as well as differential equations. There is NO way that someone claiming an econ degree should be taken seriously without these courses.

My apologies to anyone with an econ degree on here who never took those courses.

Is this the students' faults or the school's fault, though? I blame it on the school for teaching "Econ Lite" instead of real Econ.

I have a bachelors in MIS and an MBA from OU, and I think that the programs were terrible. I barely ever studied in undergrad and only studied in the grad program because the teachers did a lot of rote memorization tests, not because the material was hard or worth learning. Is it my fault that the professors were frickin awful, their teaching methods were bull****, and they cared more about their research than actually teaching us anything (thank you accreditation)? Hell no, it is the school's fault for allowing their program to fall into mediocrity by hiring awful professors and encouraging poor teaching.

[SoonerBBall]

yeah, the old anti-intellectual posture. you insulted me, personally.

i get paid to do what i do. argue that away.

you asked a question, i answered it.

Anti-intellectual? Hardly, I just don't automatically think that a PhD makes you some sort of intellectual powerhouse. You are doing a pretty great job of reinforcing that belief, too. You still haven't graced us with how a person's undergrad college major has any impact at all on how much they know about the world and what happens in it from day to day. I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation.

[King Crimson]

Anti-intellectual? Hardly, I just don't automatically think that a PhD makes you some sort of intellectual powerhouse. You are doing a pretty great job of reinforcing that belief, too. You still haven't graced us with how a person's undergrad college major has any impact at all on how much they know about the world and what happens in it from day to day. I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation.

slick, did you miss the part where i said many PhD's are petty bureaucrats? i never said this major determines worldly knowledge thing you can't let go. in fact, i said good students come from all over the map.

quit projecting your anger on me.

[SoonerBBall]

slick, did you miss the part where i said many PhD's are petty bureaucrats? i never said this major determines worldly knowledge thing you can't let go. in fact, i said good students come from all over the map.

quit projecting your anger on me.

Projecting my anger on you? I'm not projecting my anger on you at all. I am calling you out for a stupid statement you made at the beginning of this thread.


there are not generally speaking people who know *less* about the world than the 3 categories above.

Really, you never said that major determines world view? The quote above strongly implies otherwise. Just because you contradict yourself later in the thread by saying good students come from all over doesn't negate your ridiculous claim.

[King Crimson]

that "generally speaking" part really waxed you into an absolute, didn't it?

no offense, and you obviously care about this a lot, but i don't need your attitude about your bad MBA profs as some judgment on my life. if you disagree with me, fine. a majority of econ majors are idiot frat boys....wanna argue with that? how would you know?

perfect example: you ask me about my degrees and **** the rug about like i'm bragging about having a PhD. then, without provocation, you offer your own. who's got the problem here?

don't expect any more responses from me. i'm comfortable with what i said. i'm sorry it hurt your feelings or you took it personally.

it ain't worth it.

[Fraggle145]

Is this the students' faults or the school's fault, though? I blame it on the school for teaching "Econ Lite" instead of real Econ.

I have a bachelors in MIS and an MBA from OU, and I think that the programs were terrible. I barely ever studied in undergrad and only studied in the grad program because the teachers did a lot of rote memorization tests, not because the material was hard or worth learning. Is it my fault that the professors were frickin awful, their teaching methods were bull****, and they cared more about their research than actually teaching us anything (thank you accreditation)? Hell no, it is the school's fault for allowing their program to fall into mediocrity by hiring awful professors and encouraging poor teaching.

Or it could be the fault of the student that doesnt want to apply themselves and instead wants to coast through college, much like they coasted through high school and instead of thinking for themselves wants someone to do it for them.

Or maybe they could get professors that want to teach as their primary focus instead of making it a requirement that to do research under the university umbrella that you have to teach courses to people that just want a piece of paper.

Have you ever tried to teach a class? If you have then you know that **** is difficult. This is true both in getting student to engage and in putting to gether challenging methods that dont get you sunk via your evaluations because your course is "too hard."

Due to grade inflation I am personally coming to the conclusion that an undergraduate degree is largely overrated. That said, I dont think that having a grad degree means that you are smarter than anyone else. Just my $0.02

[SoonerBBall]

Or it could be the fault of the student that doesnt want to apply themselves and instead wants to coast through college, much like they coasted through high school and instead of thinking for themselves wants someone to do it for them.

Let them go. I'm a huge opponent of grade inflation and think that if a student can't (or won't try to) succeed in college, then they don't need to be there. Maybe higher education isn't for everyone.


Or maybe they could get professors that want to teach as their primary focus instead of making it a requirement that to do research under the university umbrella that you have to teach courses to people that just want a piece of paper.

I completely agree, and was trying to make that point, not trumpet my education. I was saying that both the graduate and undergraduate business programs at OU were awful. That needs to change.


Have you ever tried to teach a class? If you have then you know that **** is difficult. This is true both in getting student to engage and in putting to gether challenging methods that dont get you sunk via your evaluations because your course is "too hard."

No, I'm not a teacher. I don't want to be a teacher, and that is why I didn't try to become one. That being said, students grading the teacher is one of the worst ways i've ever heard of to evaluate a teacher's performance. It only evaluates how easy a class was.


Due to grade inflation I am personally coming to the conclusion that an undergraduate degree is largely overrated. That said, I dont think that having a grad degree means that you are smarter than anyone else. Just my $0.02

I totally agree. The only thing that an MBA means is that someone was willing to spend 2 years and tens of thousands of dollars to increase their earning potential. That itself is probably a smart choice, but that doesn't mean that the person who made it is any smarter than anyone else, necessarily.

[mdklatt]

i've taught college courses for 6 years at two US News and WR top 100 national universities and *by far* the least mentally agile students i've had are without almost any exception either: Business school students, Economics majors, or journalism majors.

there are not generally speaking people who know *less* about the world than the 3 categories above.

Those majors often seem to be refuges for the unmotivated and the incompetent.

[Fraggle145]

Those majors often seem to be refuges for the unmotivated and the incompetent.

Personally, I just think there are a lot of unmotivated and incompetent people in every major that have been told they need to go to college so they go. And those of us that are in college to learn and to do research have to put up with them as a means to an end.

[mdklatt]

Personally, I just think there are a lot of unmotivated and incompetent people in every major that have been told they need to go to college so they go.

If you're unmotivated or incompetent you're not going to last very long in a major like meteorology or engineering. And then you say "**** it" and become an education major or something. That's what I meant by refuge. There are certainly intelligent people in those programs, because that's where they want to be. Motivation makes a world of difference, and I would say is even more important than ability.

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, a lot of the people who can't handle the harder programs tend to end up in the watered down ones in the business college.

MIS is where the people who can't hack CS go, for example. (which is not to say that all MIS people are there because they can't hack CS, mind you...)

[SoonerBBall]

Yeah, a lot of the people who can't handle the harder programs tend to end up in the watered down ones in the business college.

MIS is where the people who can't hack CS go, for example. (which is not to say that all MIS people are there because they can't hack CS, mind you...)


I get that you don't think MIS is just CS light, but I still hate that view of MIS. I quit CS to do MIS because I hated the way the major was taking me. I didn't want to be a code monkey for the rest of my life, so I took MIS to get a business background as well. MIS isn't necessarily a refuge for those who couldn't do CS, it is also where people who love technology but don't like coding, operating system design, and data structure theory go. For some reason, though MIS is always the major that gets picked on. ;)

[Vaevictis]

The issue is that undergraduate business programs tend to mix and match watered down versions of other programs, so when a student finds s/he just can't hack the hardcore version of something, they'll often end up in the business college to try and use what they could hack of the hardcore version.

Mind you, there is a need for people with those cross-over skill sets, but business school undergraduates tend to be a mile wide and about a millimeter deep.

... which, of course, engenders the outside attitude that it's a refuge for the unmotivated and incompetent, as such an education allows the unmotivated and incompetent to survive.


For some reason, though MIS is always the major that gets picked on. ;)

Also, it doesn't help that MIS is looked down upon even by other business majors. :D

[Ike]

it is also where people who love technology but don't like coding, operating system design, and data structure theory go. For some reason, though MIS is always the major that gets picked on. ;)

This describes me to a tee...but I chose a different route. I started out in CS.




the ironic thing is, I spend a whole lot of my time writing code...but it has a clear and concrete purpose...unlike the stuff I wrote in my CS classes.

[tommieharris91]

Intermediate Price Theory at OU, taught by Sean Ledgerwood. Half the class ended up getting a terrible grade, because Sean actually thought that Econ students should know the calculus. About midway through the class, he started doing LaGrange analysis on isoquants.

It's a flat-out embarassment that econ degrees don't require the entire Calc series as well as differential equations. There is NO way that someone claiming an econ degree should be taken seriously without these courses.

I'm taking this class right now, but with a different instructor. At OU, we have to take up to Bus Calc II. Yea, it's not too tough compared to any engineering calc for example, but it gets the job done for the business majors. Also, last I saw Price College of Business was one of the top 20 business colleges in the US. It was a few years ago, though.

EDIT: I'm about to bite my tongue. Anyway, I'm an econ major in the Arts & Sciences college. Yea sure, there are a lot of unmotivated people in business type majors. I was one once. I wasn't going anywhere until I decided to motivate myself and try to get A's instead of struggling to get C's. My last 2 semesters I have made a 3.5 GPA, before then I would make a 2.6 GPA and be content with it. Nowadays, I fully believe that I could make at least a 3.0 in an engineering degree if I just decide to work at it. My points are, to say that economics and business majors are not motivated is pretty baseless and anyone can become motivated. I do agree that a lot of lazy people, especially lazy freshman at OU, do get lumped together as business-undecided majors there.

[Vaevictis]

My points are, to say that economics and business majors are not motivated is pretty baseless and anyone can become motivated.

It's not that economics and business majors are unmotivated, it's that the people who are unmotivated tend to end up and even thrive there. There's something about the programs that attracts slackers.


Nowadays, I fully believe that I could make at least a 3.0 in an engineering degree if I just decide to work at it.

Engineering is no big deal so long as you make sure to understand the math. If you make sure you really understand the calculus series, ODE, maybe PDE depending on your major, and linear algebra, pretty much all of undergraduate engineering is reasonably easy.

If you slack off in the math department, that's when you get into trouble.

[PhxSooner]

I thought they were gonna put all of econ in the college of business. Glad they didn't. I graduated with BA in Econ, but also Phi Beta Kappa, so I'm still trying to figure out if I'm an idiot or not...;)

I will admit this about the econ dept in the early 90s-there were some lousy profs during that time. I took one elective that turned out to literally be a repeat of my intermediate macro class (same professor, exact same notes and tests). He forgot to show up to the final. Of course, my husband had some real winners in the EE dept, so maybe the early 90s weren't that strong for OU...:D

[LoyalFan]

Hail, to the mighty victors, and let them tax you silly.
Hail, hail, the Democrats who are nukkin' fuuuuuuutz.....
Give each school kid an IPod, for free and then, Oh my God,
His mother sells it for crack, what else is newwwww.
While muslims infiltra-ate, Hamtramck and the rest of the sta-ate,
We'll all congratulate our stu-uuu-piiiii-diteeee!

Go Wolverines!!!

LF

[Fraggle145]

It isnt much different in arts and sciences thats why chemistry and physics, and for zoo majors comparative vertebrate anatomy are the biggest weed out courses you ever saw (10 question tests, 10 pts per question, multiple choice with trick answers, 150 students per class), followed by the catch all organic chemistry (to this day I cant remember hardly anything from that course). Still though everyone thinks they are going to be a doctor and they are all pre-med till they have to cut something open. They think that zoology is the way to go about it, and a lot of them are coddled unmotivated idiots (much like I was in undergrad :P)

There is a big difference between graduate and undergraduate mentality and even between masters and PhD. I think it is less lousy profs (at least in our dept) and more that it is hard to teach something that is learned hands on (i.e, doing the research), with words. It is also hard to speak in the language of the the majority of students vs. the intellectual "look I am so smart conversations" that you have all day. Also the majority of us would much rather be doing our research, which is what we love, it just so happens being a prof is a means to that end.

Also as I have said before there is a big disconnect with the public in terms of the scientific literature and having to actually read primary studies and understand it.

Finally it is hard to create an environment where you are in control, but your subordinates feel free to ask questions while maintaining control of those that dont give a ****.

[PhxSooner]

I can't think of a weed-out for econ...:O :D

I enjoyed my upper-level electives because they were pretty much all econ majors, and mostly those from A&S. I even managed to write a paper on the impending mega-conferences for my gov't relations to business class. I think it's the only time I got a grade for complaining about the NCAA.

[Vaevictis]

Of course, my husband had some real winners in the EE dept, so maybe the early 90s weren't that strong for OU...:D

It wasn't really the early 90's so much as "before Boren."

I may not like everything Boren does, but one thing I have to give him is that OU is a much better school after he signed on than before.

[BajaOklahoma]

This is 5 star thread.

[dolemitesooner]

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen on this board, and that is saying a lot. Dolemite posts here. Please, though, enlighten me on how your major in college has soooo much to do with how much you know about the world.

What are your degrees in? Just for the sake of comparison.
What in the **** is tha suPPOSDED TO MEAN cRACKER AZZ beoncye

[SoonerBBall]

What in the **** is tha suPPOSDED TO MEAN cRACKER AZZ beoncye

Thanks for proving my point. :D