New Pool Complex

[tommieharris91]

On April 10th-11th, OU students will be able to vote to increase fees by $3 per credit hour to pay for the operating costs of a proposed new pool complex to be attached to the Huston Huffman center. There is a lot of heated debate on campus over this measure, and a lot of people may not understand what they are voting on. What do y'all think about this?

iswim.ou.edu (http://iswim.ou.edu) is the web site promoting the new complex.

[sooner_born_1960]

So, everybody gets to pay $3 per credit hour so a relative few can swim? Most won't use the swim complex. I can't see that passing.

[Boomer.....]

Why does that not surprise me. Glad I am out of there.

[1stTimeCaller]

can you bring beer to the current channel?

[AggieTool]

Well if they vote on it....:confused:

[Petro-Sooner]

OUT

[rufnek05]

i'm gonna vote no, screw that i'll never be able to use it, it won't be completed until after i graduate. and even if it is finished before i graduate, i'm not gonna use it.

[Hamhock]

pubic pools are yucky

[King Crimson]

that's the way to think, me first. broad minded.

but i still want the university to build parking garages (for my convenience).

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

It looks a little fancy for my blood. I think the indoor pool is a good thing in the event we ever want to add swimming and also just for community and student use. Not sure it is worth all that money though.

[rufnek05]

also i'm thinking they are tryin one-up the osuck complex. i will admit, that place is a lot better than the houston-Huffman center

[MamaMia]

So, who gets to swim in the pool now?

[Jimminy Crimson]

Vote yes.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

So, who gets to swim in the pool now?Anyone can.

[crawfish]

My neighbor had that a few years ago, but as it wore out his pool fell into disrepair.

[Suerreal]

The old one has got to be getting pretty old. It wasn't new, and wasn't as nice as most of the other Big 8 school's pools when I was there in the late 1970s and on the swim team before OU eliminated the program. :(

I wonder if the Athletic Department is looking to restart a swimming & diving program...

- Sue

[1stTimeCaller]

Then the athletic department should pay for their own complex. I think it's a neat idea but I'm not a current student so my opinion doesn't matter.

[hurricane'bone]

i'm gonna vote no, screw that i'll never be able to use it, it won't be completed until after i graduate. and even if it is finished before i graduate, i'm not gonna use it.


I assume your saying this on the basis of paying the 3 bucks per credit hour.

If so:


Students will not pay the fee until the facility opens
(no earlier than Fall 2010)

So voting no would be stupid. Because if you graduate before it opens - you won't pay the fee.

Not directed specifically at you but in general. Its three dollars a credit hour. Most degree programs are around 120 hours, and just to be safe I'll bump it up and say 140. Thats $420 over the course of your entire college career, or $105 dollars a year (4 years). That isn't that much money, just to kind of put it in perspective, $420 will get you .52 credit hours at TU.

[proud gonzo]

yeah, but it is a lot to pay for a pool if you won't ever use it.

[hurricane'bone]

yeah, but it is a lot to pay for a pool if you won't ever use it.


Have you looked at the fees you pay?

[Vaevictis]

On it's own, the $105 a year doesn't seem so bad, but the problem is that every time OU wants money, they just jack up the fees. I'm already paying something like $100/hr worth of fees on top of tuition.

[proud gonzo]

yeah i know, it's a bunch of BS. But just because we're already paying a bunch of bull**** fees doesn't mean we should have to pay MORE of them.

[hurricane'bone]

Wow....Full Time MBA students are charged a 1500 dollar annual fee

[Vaevictis]

Also, seriously, $3/credit hour for every student? How much ****ing money are they going to be spending a year on the upkeep of this ****ing thing?

[sooneron]

yeah i know, it's a bunch of BS. But just because we're already paying a bunch of bull**** fees doesn't mean we should have to pay MORE of them.
You don't plan to graduate before 2010? That place looks sweet. I bet it will be the perfect spot for engineering students to cruise chicks.:texan:

[Vaevictis]

What really got me aggravated about OU's fees is when the COE tried to jack in a fee for the development of a set of engineering orientation classes for freshmen.

So, basically, they wanted to charge all current COE students a fee for the rest of their hours at OU for the development of a class that not a single current student would benefit from... AND, isn't development of the ****ing class (in part) supposed to be paid out of the tuition?

Just gah. Just ****ing raise the tuition if you have to, stop trying to slide **** in on the sly with fees just so Boren can ****ing lie (by ignoring fees) about how OU's cost of attendance is so low.

[proud gonzo]

You don't plan to graduate before 2010? That place looks sweet. I bet it will be the perfect spot for engineering students to cruise chicks.:texan:i plan to graduate next year, but i'm going to vote against the damn thing on principle.

[12]

http://www.aggieathletics.com/facilities.php?FID=12

That's how the Aggies got their nice facility.

Of course, I doubt many of the Internet regulars go there...;)

[Petro-Sooner]

Does Oklahoma have high school swimming and diving?

[crawfish]

My neighbor had that a few years ago, but as it wore out his pool fell into disrepair.

I need to up my troll's post count so I can neg myself on this one.

[tommieharris91]

Does Oklahoma have high school swimming and diving?

Yes.

[royalfan5]

I'm shocked at how much higher fees are for OU as compared to NU. I pay something around $450 for a whole years worth of fees at the full time level.

[Petro-Sooner]

I'm shocked at how much higher fees are for OU as compared to NU. I pay something around $450 for a whole years worth of fees at the full time level.

Yeah, well NU doesnt have boren as a president either.

[I_SMELL_FEAR]

Vote yes, not for your benefit, but for the underclassmen...its like in high school when you got to do mean stuff to the freshmen...now you get to do it to them again.

[Howzit]

I need to up my troll's post count so I can neg myself on this one.

I gotcha covered, craw...

[SicEmBaylor]

A complex like this can really help student recruitment. Our SLC has done wonders for getting people to Baylor.

Facilities aren't just important for athletes, every student wants to go to a school and use the best facilities they can. And is $3 per credit hour really that much??

[Vaevictis]

A complex like this can really help student recruitment. Our SLC has done wonders for getting people to Baylor.

Facilities aren't just important for athletes, every student wants to go to a school and use the best facilities they can. And is $3 per credit hour really that much??

It's not the $3 per credit hour. It's the fact that they keep adding fee after fee after fee, and that this is just one more in a long line of fees.

Students currently pay $82.50 in fees per credit hour. They also pay per semester mandatory fees of $116.50. Then there are fees that your specific college, school and individual classes tack on top of them.

You pay as much in fees at OU as you do in tuition. Depending on your major, you might pay MORE in fees than tuition.

[SicEmBaylor]

It's not the $3 per credit hour. It's the fact that they keep adding fee after fee after fee, and that this is just one more in a long line of fees.

Students currently pay $82.50 in fees per credit hour. They also pay per semester mandatory fees of $116.50. Then there are fees that your specific college, school and individual classes tack on top of them.

You pay as much in fees at OU as you do in tuition. Depending on your major, you might pay MORE in fees than tuition.

Well, that's a fair enough complaint. Are there some gratuitous fees they could eliminate in order to support infrastructure projects such as this?

[Vaevictis]

Well, that's a fair enough complaint. Are there some gratuitous fees they could eliminate in order to support infrastructure projects such as this?

Probably.

But frankly, I just don't see the need for 30000 students to drop $3/credit hour on a damned swimming pool.

[royalfan5]

Probably.

But frankly, I just don't see the need for 16000 students to drop $3/credit hour on a damned swimming pool.
OU only has 16,000 undergrads?

[Vaevictis]

OU only has 16,000 undergrads?

Corrected it to a more recent number. 30k-ish now.

(I was going off of numbers from the first time I was an undergrad about 10 years ago...)

[tommieharris91]

OK. Supposedly Boren has some donors' money earmarked for a new pool complex to be attached to the Huston Huffman. The students are not voting on whether to pay for building the pool, but to start paying the fees when the place is finished to cover operating costs. If the measure is voted down, the money will stay in the donors' pockets. Not many people seem to understand this part of the issue, but most on this board do. It is still a $3 per credit hour fee increase, but a lot of people think the money should be given to renovating some classrooms and buildings instead.

[SicEmBaylor]

Probably.

But frankly, I just don't see the need for 30000 students to drop $3/credit hour on a damned swimming pool.

If you're a swimmer you would. ;) The plans for the place make me want to transfer.

[Petro-Sooner]

Well, that's a fair enough complaint. Are there some gratuitous fees they could eliminate in order to support infrastructure projects such as this?

Absolutly. I dont go to the Hufman but I damn sure pay how ever much it is in fees for the thing to be open. I personally think you should only be charged if you use it. If you didnt pay that fee at the beginning of the semester, then you cant use it unless you plopped down a few dollars to use the tread mill that one time you were all hopped up on the Red Bull and felt like exercising. If they are going to charge us for the Hufman, which they do, then take the money from that. I dont use the transit system OU has but I damn sure am charged for it. Take the money from those that dont use it. I was glancing at my itemized bill the other day so those are just a few that are on the top of my head. Oh well, I'm out in a month and I dream of the day the alumni people call asking for a donation. Its so on!!!

Thats just my 2 cents.

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, there's a pretty bad misinformation campaign going on there.

The main thing that's ****ing me off is that they just keep on tacking on fees a little bit at a time. "Oh, $1.25 a credit hour ain't so bad. Oh, neither is $2. Or $3. Another $3 ain't so bad. Nope, neither is $2. Or $5. Or $9.25. Or $3."

And all of the sudden, you're paying as much in fees as you are in tuition, and you're wondering the **** why. Well, it's because they keep nickel-and-diming the **** out of us on fees.

[C&CDean]

Y'all do know if all the students throughout OU's history were as selfish and silly as you there wouldn't be a single building on the campus.

Build the ****ing pool for the next generation. Pay up, ya cheap-asses.

[tommieharris91]

I personally like the "library appreciation fee."

[Vaevictis]

Build the ****ing pool for the next generation. Pay up, ya cheap-asses.

It don't cost me a thing. The fee won't be instituted until well after I'm done.

But I'm not the kind to say, "Oh, well, it won't effect me, so **** it, I'm quite happy to hand the bill off to people who didn't get to vote on the issue."

It's a total ****ing ******-bag way to get it passed. "Don't worry, you won't have to pay a cent. The other guy will."

[Petro-Sooner]

Another gripe is that it will only open during the summer and a month or so into the fall semester. 16000 people paying for the upkeep but the majority will not be in Norman in the summer to use it even if they wanted to. meh....

[SicEmBaylor]

I believe our student fees have remained relatively stable and most of it is consolidated into one fee called a student activities fee which also includes the cost of all of our athletic tickets.

Anywhoo, I'd probably be ****ed off if I had to look at a laundry list of fees attached to every credit hour. We don't pay per credit hour, but I'd be ****ed.

Still, I firmly believe that maintaining and expanding facilities is extremely important.

[C&CDean]

Boo ****ing hoo people. Buy the galdamned pool so the little Norman ****ers can use it all summer. Jeez. You think you're the first generation to get screwed on their fees. At least a pool is semi-useful.

[SicEmBaylor]

Another gripe is that it will only open during the summer and a month or so into the fall semester. 16000 people paying for the upkeep but the majority will not be in Norman in the summer to use it even if they wanted to. meh....

Well, now if that's the case then that's utter bull****. I didn't look at the details of the plan but is the damned place not going to be indoors? If you're spending this money on an outdoor pool (and I assume the competition pool is indoors because swim season is in the colder months) then that's total bull**** and a waste of money. If you're going to build a world class aquatic facility you might as well do it the right way.

[tommieharris91]

Only the lazy river area will be outdoors.

[TopDawg]

Y'all do know if all the students throughout OU's history were as selfish and silly as you there wouldn't be a single building on the campus.

Build the ****ing pool for the next generation. Pay up, ya cheap-asses.

Word. You people would still be trying to cram onto 4 basketball courts at the Huff and sharing 4 exercise bikes, 4 treadmills and 4 dumbells.

I think it was my senior year when I voted for the fee to expand the Huff. I thought "What do I care? I won't have to pay for it anyway."

Then I came back a few years later for grad school and ended up paying my share for it. But I also got the benefit of using a first-rate gym that I didn't have as an undergrad.

[SicEmBaylor]

Only the lazy river area will be outdoors.
Well, that's not so bad then. You could probably cut the lazy river to save money to be honest. We have one and I'm not sure it's ever really used and it's indoor.

[TopDawg]

OK. Supposedly Boren has some donors' money earmarked for a new pool complex to be attached to the Huston Huffman. The students are not voting on whether to pay for building the pool, but to start paying the fees when the place is finished to cover operating costs. If the measure is voted down, the money will stay in the donors' pockets. Not many people seem to understand this part of the issue, but most on this board do. It is still a $3 per credit hour fee increase, but a lot of people think the money should be given to renovating some classrooms and buildings instead.

Grandma: Here you go, grandchild. A new PS3. Have fun!

Grandchild at OU: Thanks for nothing, grandma. Now I've gotta buy freaking games to play on this. You know how expensive those games are? Geez! What were you thinking? Any chance I could talk you into taking this back and buying me some socks instead?

[tommieharris91]

Word. You people would still be trying to cram onto 4 basketball courts at the Huff and sharing 4 exercise bikes, 4 treadmills and 4 dumbells.

I think it was my senior year when I voted for the fee to expand the Huff. I thought "What do I care? I won't have to pay for it anyway."

Then I came back a few years later for grad school and ended up paying my share for it. But I also got the benefit of using a first-rate gym that I didn't have as an undergrad.

Thanks for voting yes. It was brand new my freshman year.

[TopDawg]

Corrected it to a more recent number. 30k-ish now.

(I was going off of numbers from the first time I was an undergrad about 10 years ago...)

There were about 19,000 undergrads on the Norman campus last fall.

[TopDawg]

It's a total ****ing ******-bag way to get it passed. "Don't worry, you won't have to pay a cent. The other guy will."

Well what makes more sense? Here are the options:

1) Have current students vote on it and then have the students who will use it pay for it.
2) Have current students vote on it and pay for it, despite the fact that almost none of them will get to use it.
3) Have high school sophomores who are considering OU vote on it knowing that they will be the ones to pay for it and use it.
4) Do nothing.

[Vaevictis]

There were about 19,000 undergrads on the Norman campus last fall.

I'm just going off of this: http://www.ou.edu/publicaffairs/OUFacts1.shtml

[Vaevictis]

Well what makes more sense? Here are the options:

1) Have current students vote on it and then have the students who will use it pay for it.
2) Have current students vote on it and pay for it, despite the fact that almost none of them will get to use it.
3) Have high school sophomores who are considering OU vote on it knowing that they will be the ones to pay for it and use it.
4) Do nothing.

5) Have the students who are scheduled to still be here when the fee comes into play in 2010 vote on it.

[SicEmBaylor]

5) Have the students who are scheduled to still be here when the fee comes into play in 2010 vote on it.
Won't they sort of be voting in favor of it if they still decide to attend knowing what the cost of the fees are? It seems to me if someone were that upset about the fee come 2010 then they wouldn't be going to OU at all.

[TopDawg]

I'm just going off of this: http://www.ou.edu/publicaffairs/OUFacts1.shtml

That one shows that there are 23,057 Norman On-Campus students. I'm guessing that counts graduate students as well.

This site shows it just under 19,000. (http://go2.ou.edu/)

[SicEmBaylor]

OU really isn't all that big. I think UNT is bigger.

[TopDawg]

5) Have the students who are scheduled to still be here when the fee comes into play in 2010 vote on it.

OK, you can be responsible for working out the logistics of that.

[Petro-Sooner]

I havnt heard of students at other schools turning OU down cause we didnt have a lazy river.

Listen, I'm all for a new pool. Great, it makes OU look better and more up to the times. But its the way they are going after the money I have problems with. I understand OU would not be the pretty campus it is without fees. Some fees are obviously nessicary. Anyway......

[SicEmBaylor]

I havnt heard of students at other schools turning OU down cause we didnt have a lazy river.

Listen, I'm all for a new pool. Great, it makes OU look better and more up to the times. But its the way they are going after the money I have problems with. I understand OU would not be the pretty campus it is without fees. Some fees are obviously nessicary. Anyway......

You don't need the lazy river, but an indoor facility with a competition and maybe some sort of recreational pool would be great and absolutely necessary of course if OU is planning to add swimming and diving.

[TopDawg]

This is how I see it:

OU needs a new pool. As someone else pointed out, it was old in the 70's. The students can either pass this vote and pay $3 per credit hour to maintain a state-of-the-art facility once it's built, or they can vote this down and pay $2.50 per credit hour to build and maintain a run-of-the-mill pool.

I dunno, maybe that's misguided, but that's kinda how I see it.

[Vaevictis]

Won't they sort of be voting in favor of it if they still decide to attend knowing what the cost of the fees are? It seems to me if someone were that upset about the fee come 2010 then they wouldn't be going to OU at all.

That would be a fair way to look at it (IMO) if transferring to another school had no catches, but it doesn't. Nobody is going to say that it's worth transferring out over a $3 fee.


OK, you can be responsible for working out the logistics of that.

The damn voting system is a web app, probably backed by a SQL database. I expect it would be a pretty damned easy thing to do, if you could get a reasonably competent person to work on it for about half a week.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

The only part that would be used during the summer is the outside pool. OCCC has an awesome Olympic pool that I use 3-4 times a week during the Spring and Summer months. It would be nice if OU had a similar set up.

[TopDawg]

The damn voting system is a web app, probably backed by a SQL database. I expect it would be a pretty damned easy thing to do, if you could get a reasonably competent person to work on it for about half a week.

So I guess you're saying just go by credit hours. If you have fewer than "X" number of credit hours, you can vote because you should be here in 2010 (or whatever). It would be easy to do, sure, but it's not without it's own problems.

What if you're planning on pursuing a graduate degree? What if you're not planning on taking a full load each semester? What if you're changing majors and adding another year onto your studies? etc.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Geez, people. If you aren't going to be there in 2010 then why are you complaining anyway? It's not like they are making you pau the fee now.

[Petro-Sooner]

What if you're planning on pursuing a graduate degree?

See now your just being silly.

[TopDawg]

See now your just being silly.

That's what I thought when I graduated too.

[Vaevictis]

So I guess you're saying just go by credit hours. If you have fewer than "X" number of credit hours, you can vote because you should be here in 2010 (or whatever). It would be easy to do, sure, but it's not without it's own problems.

What if you're planning on pursuing a graduate degree? What if you're not planning on taking a full load each semester? What if you're changing majors and adding another year onto your studies? etc.

1. Go to a retention expert. They have those at OU. Ask them for a set of qualifications for someone to qualify as any possibility of being here in two years. Allocate 12.5 hours of their time.
2. Write a SQL statement to match their qualifications. Allocate an hour of your time.
3. Integrate SQL statement into voting system. Allocate two hours of your time.
4. Each a snack and bull**** around the office. Allocate half an hour of your time.
5. Tell your boss you're working, but go fishing instead. Allocate 4 hours of your time.

[TopDawg]

1. Go to a retention expert. They have those at OU. Ask them for a set of qualifications for someone to qualify as any possibility of being here in two years. Allocate 12.5 hours of their time.

Any possibility? So basically we're back to the method we're using now.

[Vaevictis]

Any possibility? So basically we're back to the method we're using now.

Actually, you're not. There are people who absolutely won't be here over the next two years. They don't get a vote.

You think a senior who has has a 2.2GPA is going to be here in 2 years? No way. They'll either graduate, or they'll get shown the door for poor academics.

EDIT: And just to clarify, by "being here in two years", I'm not including people who were here, leave, and then come back. Sorry, you don't get counted.

[TopDawg]

Actually, you're not. There are people who absolutely won't be here over the next two years. They don't get a vote.

You think a senior who has has a 2.2GPA is going to be here in 2 years? No way. They'll either graduate, or they'll get shown the door for poor academics.

Maybe they graduate and then continue to grad school.


To be admitted to the Master of Arts (MA) Liberal Studies Program, you must be admitted to the Graduate College of the University of Oklahoma. The College of Liberal Studies serves as your major department. All applicants must provide a completed OU application as well as the MA supplemental application materials and the $40 application fee.

Regular Admission Status
Applicants admissible to the Graduate College with a 3.00 grade point average on their last 60 hours of undergraduate work are admissible to the Master of Liberal Studies program. Applicants who have at least 12 hours of graduate work with a 3.0 GPA on those hours are admissible on that basis.

Conditional Admission Status: Low Grades
An applicant whose grade point average falls between a 2.75 and a 2.99 ca be admitted under the Conditional Low Grades status. By the terms of this conditional admission, such students must make a 3.0 grade point average on the first twelve letter-graded program hours of enrollment. Failure to do so will result in an automatic termination from the program.

But, sure, those cases are probably few and far between. So maybe you just say "nope, you don't get a vote, tough luck" and weed those people out that way. But if those are the only people you're weeding out, what's the point? It's hardly worth the trouble.

[Vaevictis]

Maybe they graduate and then continue to grad school.

Senior with a 2.2GPA? Wow, OU's standards are lower than I thought.


But, sure, those cases are probably few and far between. So maybe you just say "nope, you don't get a vote, tough luck" and weed those people out that way. But if those are the only people you're weeding out, what's the point? It's hardly worth the trouble.

shrug, I'm not an expert on the matter, which is why I proposed outsourcing the criteria to someone who is ;)

[TopDawg]

Senior with a 2.2GPA? Wow, OU's standards are lower than I thought.



shrug, I'm not an expert on the matter, which is why I proposed outsourcing it to someone who is ;)

Well I'm no expert either, I'm just trying to show you why your option #5 really isn't a viable option. There are too many variables to consider.

[Vaevictis]

Well I'm no expert either, I'm just trying to show you why your option #5 really isn't a viable option. There are too many variables to consider.

Maybe so, maybe not. The actual implementation is trivial once you get the criteria down.

I expect that an expert in the field could come up with a workable criteria set.

[TopDawg]

Maybe so, maybe not. The actual implementation is trivial once you get the criteria down.

I expect that an expert in the field could come up with a workable criteria set.

No matter what criteria you come up with, it's going to eliminate people who think they will be here in 2010. That seems even more unfair than letting people who think they won't be here in 2010 have a vote.

[Vaevictis]

Fair enough.

... of course, I don't have a problem with eliminating people who think they're going to be here if they're wrong ;)

[OUstudent4life]

I wonder if they'll magically charge ALL OU students for this...including OUHSC and OU Tulsa...

That would be for teh loss.

'course, even I'LL be graduamucated by then :D. Barely.

[Vaevictis]

Well, I'm going to practice what I preach on this one and simply abstain from voting on it.

The absolute latest I'll be here is 2009, assuming I decide to stick around and pursue an MBA.