This Ahmadinejad leader of Iran

[MamaMia]

Granted, after being burned out on politics once upon a time in my life, I make a consorted effort to ignore it all these days. I've done my part so now while in the early autumn of my life I really try to concentrate on my family and I don't pay it too much attention. However, I have accidentally become aware of the hatred this Iranian guy, Ahmadinejad, has for American[s] and quite frankly, he has me worried. He and his people actually want to kill us all. This cant be a good thing. :eek:

So, what the heck is going on? Why haven't the Navy Seals sneaked in his house and strangled him yet? :pop:

[SicEmBaylor]

So, what the heck is going on? Why haven't the Navy Seals sneaked in his house and strangled him yet? :pop:

The pussification of American leaders.
YWIA

[Rogue]

Cuz he isn't threating out oil supply (yet).

[Frozen Sooner]

'Cause the US doesn't really go in for assassination of foreign leaders. Though that's just an executive order and can be rescinded whenever. In fact, I think we may have already done so.

Anyhow, some think that practicing assassination on foreign leaders somewhat cedes the moral high ground. I'm not really one of them-I'd rather we take one dude out surgically than kill hundreds of thousands to get to him the messy way.

[SleestakSooner]

'Cause the US doesn't really go in for assassination of foreign leaders. Though that's just an executive order and can be rescinded whenever. In fact, I think we may have already done so.

Anyhow, some think that practicing assassination on foreign leaders somewhat cedes the moral high ground. I'm not really one of them-I'd rather we take one dude out surgically than kill hundreds of thousands to get to him the messy way.

Not to mention the loss of our own troops along the way and the additional hatred that is caused from these actions. Every one of those Iraqi kids that has suffered the loss of his family and friends and survives is a potential Osama Bin Laden just waiting to grow up and get revenge. :(

[Jerk]

President Jerk would authorize Operation Preying Mantis II:

-Every Iranian naval vessel, both surface and sub-surface, to be targeted for destruction.

-All ground based surface to surface missles pointed at our ships in the Gulf would be targeted.

-All facilities associated with their uranium enrichment program to be destroyed, possibly by small tac nukes if need be

-I would also bomb some of the political/religious centers of their gov't. (the way we got Kadaffi's attention by putting a smart bomb through his bedroom window- he never gave us trouble again)

-No ground war.

-No occupation.

-Authorize CIA to work with and fund insurgent groups inside Iran to topple gov't.

YWIA

[OCUDad]

Oh Lord, I agree with Jerk. I must be high or something.

[royalfan5]

-Authorize CIA to work with and fund insurgent groups inside Iran to topple gov't.

YWIA
In that case, we would also want to hope that the same cycle doesn't repeat itself 26 to 27 years later after we used the CIA to topple an Iranian gov't.

[85Sooner]

jERK HAS MY VOTE.

[KStatePike]

President Jerk would authorize Operation Preying Mantis II:

-Every Iranian naval vessel, both surface and sub-surface, to be targeted for destruction.

-All ground based surface to surface missles pointed at our ships in the Gulf would be targeted.

-All facilities associated with their uranium enrichment program to be destroyed, possibly by small tac nukes if need be

-I would also bomb some of the political/religious centers of their gov't. (the way we got Kadaffi's attention by putting a smart bomb through his bedroom window- he never gave us trouble again)

-No ground war.

-No occupation.

-Authorize CIA to work with and fund insurgent groups inside Iran to topple gov't.

YWIA

that's good stuff

[OUinFLA]

Dear President Jerk:
I think you waste too much time.

http://img.allpoetry.com/images/custom/Zez/nuclear_bomb.jpg

[StoopTroup]

If you didn't see this on the Daily Show...

It's priceless IMO.

The Daily Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Jx6pm1zxI)

[Jerk]

oh, btw guys...for some interesting military history about Operation Praying Mantis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

[Blue]

http://jaquetteworld.chez-alice.fr/images/cd_audio/metallica_kill_em_all-front.jpg

[Howzit]

If you didn't see this on the Daily Show...

It's priceless IMO.

The Daily Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Jx6pm1zxI)

*Snort*

"Iran...<sip>...we will **** you up. Crumpet?"

[JohnnyMack]

Oh Lord, I agree with Jerk. I must be high or something.

You must share.

[Vaevictis]

So, what the heck is going on? Why haven't the Navy Seals sneaked in his house and strangled him yet? :pop:

For one, killing him wouldn't actually accomplish anything. He's just a stooge for the clerics.

[Rogue]

oh, btw guys...for some interesting military history about Operation Praying Mantis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis


Anyone else find it at least ironic that we were also helping Iraq in 1988?

[SicEmBaylor]

Anyone else find it at least ironic that we were also helping Iraq in 1988?

No, in 1988 we were still in the midst of the Cold War and kept Iraq in our corner. Plus, in the Iraq-Iranian the "enemy of my enemy" theory prevailed.

Different times;different national interests.

[WILBURJIM]

For one, killing him wouldn't actually accomplish anything. He's just a stooge for the clerics.
Oh, I wouldn't call him a stooge. A stooge does not speak his own mind so prolifically. Yes, the real power is in the mullahs and epecially the Supreme religious leader, Khamaini, but Ahmadinjad, though not as "powerful", speaks his mind, sometimes counter to what the mullahs want. And for someone who likes to talk so much, Ahmadinejad has been conspicously silent since the 15 Brits were seized.

[MamaMia]

Oh, I wouldn't call him a stooge. A stooge does not speak his own mind so prolifically. Yes, the real power is in the mullahs and epecially the Supreme religious leader, Khamaini, but Ahmadinjad, though not as "powerful", speaks his mind, sometimes counter to what the mullahs want. And for someone who likes to talk so much, Ahmadinejad has been conspicously silent since the 15 Brits were seized.
Hmmm...come to think of it, he hasn't said a whole lot, has he? I wonder why that is?

[OklahomaTuba]

Yeah, not sure what else Iran has to do to say they want a war.

Oh well, I doubt our liberal masters will allow our country to defend herself from these madmen anyway. Just more appeasement.

Hell, the donks are over in Syria right now.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O6MTT80&show_article=1&catnum=0

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, not sure what else Iran has to do to say they want a war.

Oh well, I doubt our liberal masters will allow our country to defend herself from these madmen anyway. Just more appeasement.

Hell, the donks are over in Syria right now.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O6MTT80&show_article=1&catnum=0

This message brought to you by our resident Hawk, Tuba.

[mdklatt]

So, what the heck is going on? Why haven't the Navy Seals sneaked in his house and strangled him yet? :pop:

Yeah, I'm sure that would swing the Iranians to our side.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Yeah, I'm sure that would swing the Iranians to our side.

Yeah, because since the Shah was overthrown, we've just been a hair away from bein' the best of pals.

I mean, besides all that mess Khomeni was sayin' about us being the 'Great Satan' and all.

[royalfan5]

Yeah, because since the Shah was overthrown, we've just been a hair away from bein' the best of pals.

I mean, besides all that mess Khomeni was sayin' about us being the 'Great Satan' and all.
Perhaps if we would have picked somebody better than the Shah to prop up we would have less trouble?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Maybe so. But the dog's out of the cage and I'll be damned if he'll go back of his own volition. And that's the problem.

Do you try to play nice and pet the dog that's been growling at you since 1979, and has even bit your hand a few times? Do you ignore it until it catches you from behind and bites you on the butt? Or do you put one in its head and call it good?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

And I'm posting this because I got 666 posts not counting this one.

Creepy.

[royalfan5]

Maybe so. But the dog's out of the cage and I'll be damned if he'll go back of his own volition. And that's the problem.

Do you try to play nice and pet the dog that's been growling at you since 1979, and has even bit your hand a few times? Do you ignore it until it catches you from behind and bites you on the butt? Or do you put one in its head and call it good?
There isn't going to be a quick fix to the Iran problem. We can either go in, and try a third large nation building project in a region, or we can play defense. Doing some bombing and killing some leaders isn't going to be a permanent fix. Turning the area into a parking lot via nukes isn't a realistic option either.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

There isn't going to be a quick fix to the Iran problem. We can either go in, and try a third large nation building project in a region, or we can play defense. Doing some bombing and killing some leaders isn't going to be a permanent fix. Turning the area into a parking lot via nukes isn't a realistic option either.

I'll agree wholly that there's no such thing as a quick fix. I will disagree that 'playing defense' is a valid solution, as this plays into the opportunity for the nation to simply remain rogue, spread its vitriol and disinformation, and breed generation upon generation of zealots and fanatics that'd give their lives to see the destruction not just of our nation, but of our very way of life. That spreads into the continued growth of outifts like Hezbollah and Hamas, which by their existence alone threatens our national interests. Which in my opinion, leads to a third option.

Cut off the legs of the dog.

You don't have to sling bombs, insert troops, and nation build. Remove the regional influence brokers, or at least put them far enough in the hurt locker that they'll no longer be a viable player. That's Hezbollah. Hamas. Islamic Jihad. The groups in the region that have shifted from policy by the sword to policy by the pen. Emphasize independence from foreign oil sources through domestic expansion, research and development into low cost purification techniques for domestic high sulphur crude sources, as well as alternative fuels. Sanction and embargo the living hell out of them and let them dine on the oil they're choking on. Then and only then will you have a legless dog with an empty belly. Then and only then will Iran lose its influence.

Then and only then will Iran cease to be a problem.

In my opinion, of course.

[royalfan5]

I'll agree wholly that there's no such thing as a quick fix. I will disagree that 'playing defense' is a valid solution, as this plays into the opportunity for the nation to simply remain rogue, spread its vitriol and disinformation, and breed generation upon generation of zealots and fanatics that'd give their lives to see the destruction not just of our nation, but of our very way of life. That spreads into the continued growth of outifts like Hezbollah and Hamas, which by their existence alone threatens our national interests. Which in my opinion, leads to a third option.

Cut off the legs of the dog.

You don't have to sling bombs, insert troops, and nation build. Remove the regional influence brokers, or at least put them far enough in the hurt locker that they'll no longer be a viable player. That's Hezbollah. Hamas. Islamic Jihad. The groups in the region that have shifted from policy by the sword to policy by the pen. Emphasize independence from foreign oil sources through domestic expansion, research and development into low cost purification techniques for domestic high sulphur crude sources, as well as alternative fuels. Sanction and embargo the living hell out of them and let them dine on the oil they're choking on. Then and only then will you have a legless dog with an empty belly. Then and only then will Iran lose its influence.

Then and only then will Iran cease to be a problem.

In my opinion, of course.
You don't think more Islamist groups will form as we take out existing ones? As long as the Middle East is a poor backwards region, there are always going to be extremists groups, no matter how many existing ones you wipe out. Creating more poverty in the Middle East isn't a viable fix either. As long as the oil is there, its going to be powerful even if the United States isn't importing it because our trading partners will still be highly dependent on it.

[Suerreal]

Anyone else attend OU during the 70's when the Shah funded so many Iranians to attend OU's school of Petroleum Engineering?

Remember the "peaceful" demonstrations against the Shah? (One sent my then boyfriend, now husband to Goddard with a concussion from a brick to the back of his head while going up the stairs to the Zoo building)

And how quickly they all sought political asylum here in the States once their country did overthrow the Shah and establish an Islamic regime?

I concluded then that Iranians weren't strong on cause and effect. Nothing I've seen since has altered that conclusion.

- Sue

[Tulsa_Fireman]

You don't think more Islamist groups will form as we take out existing ones? As long as the Middle East is a poor backwards region, there are always going to be extremists groups, no matter how many existing ones you wipe out.

Yup. Couldn't agree more. But when extremist groups gain political momentum and credibility, such as Hezbollah and Hamas, they've removed themselves as "extremist groups" and placed themselves into positions of legitimate power. And with that power comes the creation of not just one theocratical thorn in our butt in Iran, but a whole dang briar patch. Lebanon is getting there in a hurry. While exposure to western culture and slight liberalization has emboldened some Syrians, the nation is still ruled by the secular Baath party, a rule of the iron fist and capitulation to Islam keeping it from being yet another victim to theocratical coup. Jordan's already feeling the sting with the Amman hotel bombings and shootings. So yes, others will pop up. But do you want organized, well financed groups with political power and funding with no national ties, or do you want shadow groups meeting in garages, scrambling up fertilizer and diesel and shouting allah akbar as they pray they can squeeze through airport security? I'll choose the latter. That means removing the former, regardless of how many others pop up in their absence.


Creating more poverty in the Middle East isn't a viable fix either. As long as the oil is there, its going to be powerful even if the United States isn't importing it because our trading partners will still be highly dependent on it.

Maybe so. But the United States as a nation won't be at the mercy of export restrictions. Won't be at the economic mercy of the price per barrel. That's a strong position to be in, as economically we're washed clean of that influence. Puts us in a position of strength, regardless of how much black gold they're selling. Because they're not selling it to us. Because of such, we're more able to enforce strict economic sanctions and export tariffs on everything else that goes from here to there with no fear of repurcussions. And with such, infrastructure, agriculture, everything starts to slide. The "hurt locker" mentioned before. Through our influence with trade partners, this can be broadened to really make it stick. But it rests solely on being rid of the chain of oil around our ankle.

That's my take, at least.

[royalfan5]

Of course they have the ability to badly hurt us because of all the dollar denominated assets they have aquired. They could badly weaken the dollar quite easily, and put us in a world of hurt. As long as the Chinese are still oil dependent, we will be oil dependent.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Of course they have the ability to badly hurt us because of all the dollar denominated assets they have aquired. They could badly weaken the dollar quite easily, and put us in a world of hurt. As long as the Chinese are still oil dependent, we will be oil dependent.

You lost me on that one.

What dollar denominated assets? Bonds? Securities? And how could Iran, through my admittedly small understanding of such, "weaken the dollar quite easily"? And how is our oil dependence related in any way to China short of the import/export side of the equation?

I'm just a dumb ol' fireman, so make it simple. Because I'm simply not seeing it.

[Scott D]

You lost me on that one.

What dollar denominated assets? Bonds? Securities? And how could Iran, through my admittedly small understanding of such, "weaken the dollar quite easily"? And how is our oil dependence related in any way to China short of the import/export side of the equation?

I'm just a dumb ol' fireman, so make it simple. Because I'm simply not seeing it.

technically we owes China lots and lots of money money.

[Blue]

Of course they have the ability to badly hurt us because of all the dollar denominated assets they have aquired. They could badly weaken the dollar quite easily, and put us in a world of hurt. As long as the Chinese are still oil dependent, we will be oil dependent.

If they knew how to do that, it would already be done. These people are not our friends right now. It amazes me to see people that think kissing their *** will appease them.

You don't try to make friends with a bully(Whether we're the bully or not). You punch them square in the nose.

[royalfan5]

If they knew how to do that, it would already be done. These people are not our friends right now. It amazes me to see people that think kissing their *** will appease them.

You don't try to make friends with a bully(Whether we're the bully or not). You punch them square in the nose.
They know how to do it, but you have to keep selling oil to pay the bills as well. What good would come from spiking the dollar to unless you have to? They know that, and as long as they can keep selling oil, it won't matter. But China and OPEC have a lot of dollar reserves.(Remember that oil is priced in dollars) We are running a mammoth deficit, that depends on OPEC and China to keep going. The United States is in huge current accounts hole. Our ability to fund a war depends on maintaining buyers for our securities. If OPEC nations aren't buying them, we'd best hope Russia will start buying our debt.

[royalfan5]

You lost me on that one.

What dollar denominated assets? Bonds? Securities? And how could Iran, through my admittedly small understanding of such, "weaken the dollar quite easily"? And how is our oil dependence related in any way to China short of the import/export side of the equation?

I'm just a dumb ol' fireman, so make it simple. Because I'm simply not seeing it.
The dollar is a commodity just like oil. The United States economic welfare is linked to the strength of the dollar. If there is a low demand for the dollar because there aren't petrodollars to soak up our national debt, along with China, the dollar will get weak. A weak dollar would be good for exporters, but bad for anybody that has to buy imports, as well it would make much more difficult for the Gov't to pay the bills. This would cause inflation. As much as we import from China, there is a flip side, where alot of American money has been sunk into China. If China falters because of oil, it will be a drag on the American economy because of the all the money invested there.