DMN: School fighting claim that it did not monitor athletes' employment

[PAW]

OU disagrees with NCAA allegation (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/033107dnspooufb.3656344.html)

School fighting claim that it did not monitor athletes' employment

10:37 PM CDT on Friday, March 30, 2007

By GARY JACOBSON / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

The University of Oklahoma accepts the NCAA's allegation that three former football players took extra benefits from an auto dealership but is aggressively fighting a claim that it failed to adequately monitor their employment.

"We strongly disagree with this charge and assert that the University met, if not exceeded, industry standards ...," OU president David Boren wrote in a letter to members of the NCAA Division I infractions committee.

OU released the letter, dated March 7, and its response to the NCAA's allegations Friday, in advance of the university's scheduled April 14 appearance before the committee in Indianapolis. The NCAA considers all of the allegations to be potential major violations.

Previously, OU has maintained only two players accepted pay for work not performed at Big Red Sports/Imports in Norman – quarterback Rhett Bomar from Grand Prairie and offensive lineman J.D. Quinn from Garland.

In the notice of allegation sent to OU in February, the NCAA said a third player also took money he didn't earn. The Morning News has reported that Jermaine Hardison, a former walk-on receiver from Midwest City, Okla., was paid for an average of 43 hours a week during much of spring term 2005 while school was in session and spring practice was held.

Bomar and Quinn were dismissed from the team last August, and the NCAA reinstated them after the season. They transferred to schools with Division I-AA football programs: Bomar to Sam Houston State and Quinn to Montana. Combined, they accepted more than $15,500 in unearned benefits from Big Red, the NCAA determined.

Hardison withdrew from school in September.

Unlike Bomar and Quinn, who clocked in and out for each other, the report states the third player was not involved in a "conspiracy."

But because there were "serious conflicts in his documentation" and the player refused to meet with investigators, "the University had no choice other than to determine violations occurred." OU investigators interviewed the player once, but that was before they had received all of his work records.

Player names were redacted from the materials released Friday, but two lists show 17 players worked at Big Red during the period investigated.

In the report, OU calls its response to the Big Red situation "a model for how an institution should react when potential and actual violations are discovered" and calls the monitoring allegation "unfair and unwarranted." The university blamed the problem on the players and a former Big Red general manager, Brad McRae, who condoned deliberate violation of the rules.

McRae left the dealership in spring 2006, when it was acquired by new ownership. Investigators talked to him once but obtained limited information, according to the documents. He has refused contact since.

"Their scheme would not have been uncovered if not for the University's aggressive investigation, Big Red's change in management and ownership, and the subsequent cooperation of the new management and ownership," OU's response said.

The university argues that its self-imposed penalties are adequate. They include dismissing Bomar and Quinn, not filling their scholarships last season and banning McRae from association with the school for five years.

As part of its preparation for the April meeting, the NCAA requested and received a review of OU's televised game commitments for the next three seasons.



I really don't like the sound of that last sentence. :mad:

[Harry Beanbag]

If those bastards drop the hammer, OU needs to sue their *** for unfair treatment. The Big Red deal is a pimple on the *** of all the violations that are going on at other schools.

[jrsooner]

The OU alumni club had one of OU's compliancy reps down here for a talk on alumni clubs and what their interactions can be according to the NCAA. I've always been a proponent that the group up there can't catch everything, just the same as any internal auditor in any company. That being said...

1. In my opinion they are severely understaffed for what the NCAA expects of them. Secondly, this seems to be the case at most of the universities that the NCAA monitors. From what she said OU has been ramping up their department since the early 2000s.

2. Auditing tools are not readily available to track exactly what the NCAA requires to be tracked. A lot of the items still have to be manually completed. In fact her department created a software product to monitor phone calls made by the athletic department.

I asked her pointed questions about the compliancy department and the actions that they take in certain situations. I was interested in it both as an alumni and also because that type of work is also a major portion of my current position. Not in sports but IT. She could not talk about any ongoing investigations, but from what she said, I'd say OU Compliancy department did all it could. It had appropriate detective controls in place to catch this item. A few of them in fact! Some were secondary back up detective controls. If the NCAA slams OU for this, then they should check every school's controls to see if they are adequate or not!

God help us!! I'm advocating a SOX 404 attitude for the NCAA to follow! I must be off my rocker this morning!

[Seamus]

Meanwhile, "The NCAA announced today that it would be mandating new compliance standards based on a model created by the University of Southern California ..."

[OKC-SLC]

I really feel that OU is being mistreated here. And I'm not some Crimson and Cream bleeder who can't be objective. But I can't help but notice the problems at Ohio State (not all that dissimilar, and all that player did was win the Heisman) and USC (perhaps even more egregious, and all that player did was win the Heisman) and wonder why we don't hear more about investigations and possible punishments at THOSE schools.

[OKC-SLC]

Meanwhile, "The NCAA announced today that it would be mandating new compliance standards based on a model created by the University of Southern California ..."
heh.

[BajaOklahoma]

As part of its preparation for the April meeting, the NCAA requested and received a review of OU's televised game commitments for the next three seasons.


Am I alone in thinking that if we had been less successful this past year, compared to what the common expectation was, that this would not be hanging over us? As in, we haven't suffered enough?

[jrsooner]

They say that Ohio State has one of the best compliancy departments...I like their site better than OUs. :( They provide more information than Soonersports.com.

http://ohiostatebuckeyes.cstv.com/compliance/osu-compliance-staff.html

They have 9 staff members, where as OU has 5. OU from what I was told has one of the larger number of staff, most schools have had only 1 or 2. BUT all of them seem to be ramping up the staff over the past few years.

Think about it...
5 staff members to monitor ...
1. All the coaches
2. All the players
3. All the boosters
4. Every phone record or slight contact with athletes or their families.
5. All graduated athletes (this one shocked me when I found out about it). Seems the NCAA looks at it as once an athlete always an athlete.

That's just scratching the surface. You could continue into any contact with family members, internet "message boards", etc.

[poke4christ]

They say that Ohio State has one of the best compliancy departments...I like their site better than OUs. :( They provide more information than Soonersports.com.

http://ohiostatebuckeyes.cstv.com/compliance/osu-compliance-staff.html

They have 9 staff members, where as OU has 5. OU from what I was told has one of the larger number of staff, most schools have had only 1 or 2. BUT all of them seem to be ramping up the staff over the past few years.

Think about it...
5 staff members to monitor ...
1. All the coaches
2. All the players
3. All the boosters
4. Every phone record or slight contact with athletes or their families.
5. All graduated athletes (this one shocked me when I found out about it). Seems the NCAA looks at it as once an athlete always an athlete.

That's just scratching the surface. You could continue into any contact with family members, internet "message boards", etc.

I totally agree that this is not the fault of Stoops and coaches, but rather the compliance department. I think that the school might have just gotten a little lazy and not realized what is needed to prevent against this sort of thing. I'm not sure how OU's compliance office compares nation wide, but these were the numbers sited by the Tulsa World for the three in state schools:

OU 125 athletes for every 1 compliance officer
OSU 68 athletes for every 1 compliance officer
TU 117 athletes for every 1 compliance officer

That sure sound like big numbers all around. Keep in mind though that this is old data from back in August and it may (more than likely IMHO) have changed since then.

[bri]

Simple fact of life: The NCAA is going to stick it to OU every chance they get because of our victory in the 1984 antitrust lawsuit against them. And they don't even have to hide it. :mad:

[MichiganSooner]

What was the 1984 antitrust lawsuit about?

[MichiganSooner]

I totally agree that this is not the fault of Stoops and coaches, but rather the compliance department. I think that the school might have just gotten a little lazy and not realized what is needed to prevent against this sort of thing. I'm not sure how OU's compliance office compares nation wide, but these were the numbers sited by the Tulsa World for the three in state schools:

OU 125 athletes for every 1 compliance officer
OSU 68 athletes for every 1 compliance officer
TU 117 athletes for every 1 compliance officer

That sure sound like big numbers all around. Keep in mind though that this is old data from back in August and it may (more than likely IMHO) have changed since then.

I didn't realize osu had 68 athletes.

[Rhino]

What was the 1984 antitrust lawsuit about? Basically, OU and Georgia stood up to the NCAA over how they controlled TV contracts.

USA Today story (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2004-08-19-hiestand-college-football_x.htm)

[SoonerMom2]

Since it is obvious the NCAA hates OU, then maybe it is time if they give us sanctions this time when they let OSU (real OSU) and USC skate, that OU sues the NCAA again. NCAA loves to come after OU, AL, and others while OSU and USC skate all the time.

I don't get it -- the players and Big Red Sports were at fault not the compliance officer. Don't players have personal responsibility to report they have a job and a employer also has to report. Looks to me the breakdown came from the scumbags and employer who failed to report they were working and they took money they didn't earn. I wouldn't allow them to play for two years not just one.

Whatever happened to the scandal at UT the Houston paper was sitting on last summer about using girls to recruit players? Never mind, that is UT another one that skates.

[jrsooner]

I totally agree that this is not the fault of Stoops and coaches, but rather the compliance department.I don't think it's the fault of the compliance department. If they were following the processes and controls that were put in place they are not at fault. They've been ramping up on staff. They've got a mountain of items that they have to look at constantly. Putting the blame on the compliancy department isn't accurate. They did their jobs, their detective controls worked. It's just that OU like all NCAA universities do not see the importance of this department to fund and staff it like it should be done.

[poke4christ]

I don't think it's the fault of the compliance department. If they were following the processes and controls that were put in place they are not at fault. They've been ramping up on staff. They've got a mountain of items that they have to look at constantly. Putting the blame on the compliancy department isn't accurate. They did their jobs, their detective controls worked. It's just that OU like all NCAA universities do not see the importance of this department to fund and staff it like it should be done.

Dude, They had over 20 players working there. It was by far their largest employer. How could you not keep up with that? He was even clocked in during football practices. They should have known about this.

The sad fact is that this is the third sport that this has happened in in less than two years. That's a trend and shows something needs to be done. I'm don't know any recent facts, but I would bet a lot of money that OU's compliance department is now a lot bigger.

Oh, and BTW. The compliance department came to know about the problem through an email that was sent to them and the NCAA. There "self reporting" was a preemptive strike. This came out in the Oklahoman several months ago. Why do you guys keep saying that the department did their job?

Finally, I'm sorry if this sounds attacking. I'm really not trying to attack OU.

[CobraKai]

Dude, They had over 20 players working there. It was by far their largest employer. How could you not keep up with that? He was even clocked in during football practices. They should have known about this.

The sad fact is that this is the third sport that this has happened in in less than two years. That's a trend and shows something needs to be done. I'm don't know any recent facts, but I would bet a lot of money that OU's compliance department is now a lot bigger.

Oh, and BTW. The compliance department came to know about the problem through an email that was sent to them and the NCAA. There "self reporting" was a preemptive strike. This came out in the Oklahoman several months ago. Why do you guys keep saying that the department did their job?

Finally, I'm sorry if this sounds attacking. I'm really not trying to attack OU.

Of the 20 players it appears that 17 of them conducted no wrong doings, so it is not as if this was some clandestine rogue org. A very small minority of players cheated and covered their tracks with the help of a crooked GM. I would imagine that OU and the NCAA receive dozens of emails claiming violations. They are probably similar in nature to the multiple emails that were sent to the NCAA claiming that Les Miles was negative recruiting while at OSU. The FACT is that OU DID have processes in place. They received a tip, found the facts, and PUNISHED the players FAR FAR FAR worse than the precedent the NCAA had set (See USC/Ohio State for examples). If the NCAA institutes further punishment please contrast OU's reaction to USC and Ohio State and explain why they did not also get nailed.

[poke4christ]

Of the 20 players it appears that 17 of them conducted no wrong doings, so it is not as if this was some clandestine rogue org. A very small minority of players cheated and covered their tracks with the help of a crooked GM. I would imagine that OU and the NCAA receive dozens of emails claiming violations. They are probably similar in nature to the multiple emails that were sent to the NCAA claiming that Les Miles was negative recruiting while at OSU. The FACT is that OU DID have processes in place. They received a tip, found the facts, and PUNISHED the players FAR FAR FAR worse than the precedent the NCAA had set (See USC/Ohio State for examples). If the NCAA institutes further punishment please contrast OU's reaction to USC and Ohio State and explain why they did not also get nailed.

I'm not saying anything about USC or tOSU. USC should probably get nailed. tOSU, I'm not sure about (don't really have enough info).

As for the 20 players, I was mearly saying that you should be watching closely your largest employeer, not saying there were other problems.

Secondly, negative recruiting is not (nor ever has been) illegal. So it doesn't matter what is sent to the NCAA.

Finally, you can't compare one transgression to another for punishment. Just because there was a failure to act in one incident doesn't mean that the next person/persons should get off the hook. It's plenty reason for said person/persons to be upset, but one mistake shouldn't lead to others (not implying at that OU deserves further punishment, just stating a opinion).

note: I was trying to find the story about the email. It appears that the email in question was sent to OU on March 3 (long before the final report). This is good for OU because it suggests a long investigation. I didn't see it mention a copy sent to the NCAA. So, it appears I was partially right and partially wrong on this. Maybe someone else can clear this up more with a link to a better story.

http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=26005&highlight=message

[jrsooner]

Oh, and BTW. The compliance department came to know about the problem through an email that was sent to them and the NCAA. There "self reporting" was a preemptive strike. This came out in the Oklahoman several months ago. Why do you guys keep saying that the department did their job?Dude, have you ever worked in a compliancy or audit field? If you had, then you'd know how these things can happen.

There's these things called "detective controls". Those are controls that are put into place to help catch the items that the general controls do not. In this case one of the detective controls is their 800 phone number and an email tips sent to the university. They respond per their processes when they receive a "tip". That's exactly what happened.

Even in a "perfect" controlled environment, if you have one or two individuals that are not going to follow the processes, infractions are going to happen. Audits (internal/external) or the "detective controls" find them as soon as possible. At that time then remediation starts on the "gap" in the processes that were found.

OU did nothing wrong in the compliancy area from what I can see. They did exactly what any internal controls department would do for a major company. These things happen everyday, what is important is how the company/internal controls group responds to infractions. From what I've seen the NCAA has given the colleges some major standards that are hard to maintain and control in the area that they are dealing with. From my 20-30 minute one on one talk with their rep, and listening to what she had to say to our alumni group (even including a Q/A session on items that she could discuss), professionally I'd have to say OU did all they could do. Only other thing would be to hire more staff and give them more money to get better tools to help them. Even in corporations that is hard to get the people that hold the money strings to open the purses for. That being said, you aren't going to catch 100% of the infractions without snitches, the human engineering side of the equation always has some idiot that is going to try to get around the controls in place regardless of how good they are.

[fadada1]

Meanwhile, "The NCAA announced today that it would be mandating new compliance standards based on a model created by the University of Southern California ..."
:D

you mean to tell me usc was on the level while recruiting and suiting up reggie bush??? i feel ashamed that i thought otherwise;)

if the ncaa puts sanctions on us, they should just eliminate the entire university of southern california. not just the football team... the entire university.

[BajaOklahoma]

The State of Oklahoma needs to pass a law making it mandatory that all of the state's college athletes get an Oklahoma driver's license - which will be marked to indicate their athletetic status.
A second law would require all employers in Oklahoma to report the employment of any athlete to the college/university. Weekly reports of the hours worked and pay earned would also be required.
A third law would require the athlete working out-of-state to report the employment to the college/university.
And the fourth law would allow jail time for failure to comply - both the athlete and employer.
This could probably be one law, with four sections.

[MichiganSooner]

This control does not catch those who want to cheat. In the case of Bomar, he chose not to follow the rules aleady in place at OU. Bomar could have gotten his mandatory Oklahoma Drivers License stating he is an atlete when he enrolled at OU. He would keep his Texas Drivers License. I have moved across state lines in my lifetime and eventually "got around" to getting a DL in my new state, usually when the old DL was about to expire. None of the 7 states I moved to ever conviscated my old DL had. And if his TX DL was retained by OK officials, Bomar would simply go back to TX and get a new DL and not tell them he is an athlete. Bomar would show his TX license to the dishonest general manager of Big Red Imports and simply say he is a TX resident attending OU as a student. Big Red would not report the hours worked and pay earned to OU compliance dept, if they were also willing to cheat.

Not to pick on OU, but the mentality of the NCAA, but with the recent problems with the basketball program and now this, I guess Joe C. needs to hire a good 200 compliance cops or more to make sure a few idiots don't cheat. We come up with cash to expand and build facilities, millions for scoreboards, etc; I guess it seems that if we hire a compiance staff of monumental numbers, maybe the NCAA would cut us a break if a lone cheater got away with something sometime.

[opksooner]

Legal beagles:

If, the NCAA, in spite of OU's vigorous defense, and in spite of the NCAA's lack of appropriate penalities vis-a-vis Ohio State and USC, penalizes OU....... is this an actionable situation? Is a law suit a possibility?

[PAW]

According to some bloke on the internet:



Finally the report in the Dallas Morning news is false becasue A) my contact at the NCAA told me so and B) OU only has TV commitments thorugh next fall. The Networks do not committ to games that far in the future. Heck some of OU's games this fall could be moved from national to regional to even not aired at all depending on their record, opponenets records, etc.

I wonder what the source was for the DMN article. :mad:

[MichiganSooner]

If OU had the world's greatest compliance dept with undercover agents spying on every move of its athletes, would we almost always be the subject of NCAA sanctions because we were doing an excellent job of undercovering any and all wrong-doings and doing our duty bound job of reporting all such infractions to the NCAA?

From what I know of the Bomar affair, this is what it seems like. We catch and discipline players severely and seemingly get punished anyway.

[Scott D]

I'm not worried, because I know that eventually Texas Tech will run afoul of the NCAA, and then Myles Brand can drop another hammer on Bob Knight ;)

[snp]

I really wish you people would stop crying about USC. They are under federal investigation which is why the NCAA hasn't done anything to them yet. It they aren't punished, than they will be relevant to this discussion.

ohio state is a pretty weak arguement as well. A booster paid a kid $500 one time. Not 30 times that amount over a longer period of time. And once you hear the background story behind why Troy Smith even needed the money in the first place (Clarrett ran up his bill), you just shrug it off.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that college football players deserve a bigger stipend.

[Doged]

I really wish you people would stop crying about USC. They are under federal investigation which is why the NCAA hasn't done anything to them yet. It they aren't punished, than they will be relevant to this discussion.

ohio state is a pretty weak arguement as well. A booster paid a kid $500 one time. Not 30 times that amount over a longer period of time. And once you hear the background story behind why Troy Smith even needed the money in the first place (Clarrett ran up his bill), you just shrug it off.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that college football players deserve a bigger stipend.

While I see your point, I disagree. Regardless of the amount involved taking money from a booster is just that, taking money from a booster. Smith was punished with a 1-game suspension, Bush wasn't punished at all and Bomar and Quinn were thrown out of school. Of the three, only OU suffered self-imposed sanctions (loss of 2 scholarships). I fully understand why people would be upset if OU were to receive additional sanctions while tOSU and USC did not. Worrying about it before it happens may be a bit much, though.

[AlbqSooner]

Worrying about it before it happens may be a bit much, though.
Oh not at all true. 98% of the stuff I worry about never happens.;)

[Scott D]

While I see your point, I disagree. Regardless of the amount involved taking money from a booster is just that, taking money from a booster. Smith was punished with a 1-game suspension, Bush wasn't punished at all and Bomar and Quinn were thrown out of school. Of the three, only OU suffered self-imposed sanctions (loss of 2 scholarships). I fully understand why people would be upset if OU were to receive additional sanctions while tOSU and USC did not. Worrying about it before it happens may be a bit much, though.

so what you are saying is it's equal in your eyes if a player takes money a single time from a single booster to cover a single bill, as to a player committing essentially a criminal act by falsifying work records?

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

The State of Oklahoma needs to pass a law making it mandatory that all of the state's college athletes get an Oklahoma driver's license - which will be marked to indicate their athletetic status.
A second law would require all employers in Oklahoma to report the employment of any athlete to the college/university. Weekly reports of the hours worked and pay earned would also be required.
A third law would require the athlete working out-of-state to report the employment to the college/university.
And the fourth law would allow jail time for failure to comply - both the athlete and employer.
This could probably be one law, with four sections.I'm surprised the NCAA hasn't done something like this previously. Of course, to take it a step further, we could just pay athletes a stipend.

[jrsooner]

Of course, to take it a step further, we could just pay athletes a stipend.It's called a "scholarship".

[jrsooner]

If OU had the world's greatest compliance dept with undercover agents spying on every move of its athletesDon't forget ever member of the athlete's family, every 9th grader and above that may be going to OU as an athlete (plus each of their family members).

[BajaOklahoma]

I'm surprised the NCAA hasn't done something like this previously. Of course, to take it a step further, we could just pay athletes a stipend.


I remember when the King brought this up. People from other schools thought he was crazy.

[Scott D]

I'm surprised the NCAA hasn't done something like this previously. Of course, to take it a step further, we could just pay athletes a stipend.

And to afford to pay this stipend we could eliminate probably 80% of the scholarship sports programs at virtually every university just to stipend Football, Basketball, and Baseball.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Well the boosters could fund it. There are a bunch of Buddy Garritys in the world looking for a place to make a difference.

Scholarships don't pay for food.

[Fraggle145]

Well the boosters could fund it. There are a bunch of Buddy Garritys in the world looking for a place to make a difference.

Scholarships don't pay for food.

College athletes are semi-professionals. I think paying athletes could be done quite simply through the NCAA and the universities. Basically, no summer job and instead make them a university employee of the athletic department. Much easier to track when you are paying for them and the infastructure is already in place. With a stipend based on average cost of living analysis in the college town of residence. I mean as a grad student I get my tuition paid for and I get paid $1300/mo as a research or teaching assistant. This does not pay for much. Rent, utilities, two grocery trips, miller high life to drink at home, gas, and an occasional beer on fridays. I dont think it is unreasonable to give someone that works at least ~40hrs/wk on football for the university that cashes in on them (both in terms of direct profit and in donations, both to the athletic department as well as to the other departments when you ahve a winning program) to get a reasonable stipend like that along with their tuition. As a point of reference as a grad student you either research or teach 20hrs/wk.

[goingoneight]

All I know is this, if I cheated my employer in college and got kicked out of school for it, I have no one to blame but myself. And if I'm a STARTING QUARTERBACK AT THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA, I know damn well how serious the school is about disciplinary action. The NCAA is hanging this over OUr heads most likely to kill OUr recruiting if they're not going to do anything. Come on, folks... if the NCAA wanted to bone us, don't you think they would have done it long before now? I'm one to believe that looking at OUr 2006 team, Bomar or no Bomar, they could have zapped us with no TV and no post-season right then and there, and if Oregon wanted to bone us, they'd have had sloppy seconds to deal with. JHMO.

[royalfan5]

Well the boosters could fund it. There are a bunch of Buddy Garritys in the world looking for a place to make a difference.

Scholarships don't pay for food.
At Nebraska, even the walk-ons get compensated for the time away from the training table. I'm assuming that is above board since it has been chronicled in the media. Also, D-1 scholarship athletes can cash in by living in cheaper off campus lodgings, and they still get cash for the room at University prices. I learned that when I was dating a women's rifle all-american. A stipend would likely simplify things for every one. Periodically one of the Nebraska State Senators introduces a bill to pay the Universities athletes a wage for their time. It never gets anywhere, but always stimulates a bunch of debate.

[CobraKai]

so what you are saying is it's equal in your eyes if a player takes money a single time from a single booster to cover a single bill, as to a player committing essentially a criminal act by falsifying work records?

Criminal act?

[snp]

While I see your point, I disagree. Regardless of the amount involved taking money from a booster is just that, taking money from a booster. Smith was punished with a 1-game suspension

Refer to Scott D.


Bush wasn't punished at all and Bomar and Quinn were thrown out of school. Of the three, only OU suffered self-imposed sanctions (loss of 2 scholarships). I fully understand why people would be upset if OU were to receive additional sanctions while tOSU and USC did not. Worrying about it before it happens may be a bit much, though.

okay, USC will retroactively revoke Reggie Bush's scholarship, since the news broke after he was going pro. They could've kicked him out, but he was gone anyways, it wouldn't have mattered. Espically since nothing has been proven yet.



College athletes are semi-professionals. I think paying athletes could be done quite simply through the NCAA and the universities. Basically, no summer job and instead make them a university employee of the athletic department. Much easier to track when you are paying for them and the infastructure is already in place. With a stipend based on average cost of living analysis in the college town of residence. I mean as a grad student I get my tuition paid for and I get paid $1300/mo as a research or teaching assistant. This does not pay for much. Rent, utilities, two grocery trips, miller high life to drink at home, gas, and an occasional beer on fridays. I dont think it is unreasonable to give someone that works at least ~40hrs/wk on football for the university that cashes in on them (both in terms of direct profit and in donations, both to the athletic department as well as to the other departments when you ahve a winning program) to get a reasonable stipend like that along with their tuition. As a point of reference as a grad student you either research or teach 20hrs/wk.

Your understanding of college athletes/students is lacking a little bit. They get a living stipend, while it's not great, it's enough to cover their housing. They can always stay in the dorms and live/eat for free if they choose to. They also can only practice 20 hours per week.

I don't think taking away the opportunity for work would be very fair, or American. Many players are able to juggle legitimate jobs. I work with one and he works harder than everyone at my work.

BTW, $1300 a month is plenty for a college student in Norman. I have a lot of friends who get by on much less.

[snp]

Criminal act?

Yea, it's called fraud.

[Fraggle145]

Your understanding of college athletes/students is lacking a little bit. They get a living stipend, while it's not great, it's enough to cover their housing. They can always stay in the dorms and live/eat for free if they choose to. They also can only practice 20 hours per week.

I don't think taking away the opportunity for work would be very fair, or American. Many players are able to juggle legitimate jobs. I work with one and he works harder than everyone at my work.

BTW, $1300 a month is plenty for a college student in Norman. I have a lot of friends who get by on much less.

Not counting the extra time commitments, the workouts, the read for the kids, etc... Did you want to live in the dorms for four years? I know I sure didnt I couldnt stand it. What is their stipend for living? I have wanted to know this for a long time...

IMO football, or whatever other sport they are playing is in the employ of the university. It is their job. They are representing the university, benefitting the university and if they are any good (or do something stupid) have to live in the public eye, which has its perks (which they cant touch) and its detractions.

Bob Stoops makes what ~4mil with all incentives? He deserves every penny, but even the king said it is all about the players and I agree with him, therefore if the players amount to at least 50% of the equation of a winning team that has so much (in the case of football) of an impact on the university, dont you think they should get something besides just their housing or enough to buy a hamburger and fill up their car once or twice a month? I got that stipend when I was in undergrad for my national merit scholarship, and it was not enough to live on for an entire semester.

And I love how $1300 is plenty to live on... I am sure you do have friends that get by with less, hell I could get by with less, but that is what it is... getting by. At least for grad students the tuition is waived, but the fees are not and we have some of the highest fees in the nation.

I am just saying a little more comfort couldnt hurt especially with all they do for the community etc...

[OU4LIFE]

I don't think taking away the opportunity for work would be very fair, or American.

Yet this is exactly what they do. We weren't allowed to have jobs during the season, period. I don't think that has changed.

[IronHorseSooner]

Like I have said before, something needs to be done about the NCAA. We have a university president who was a well-connected US Senator, and his son is a Congressman in the majority party. Their collective power needs to be used to bring out the general incompetence and capriciousness of the NCAA. This is not just for us, but for other programs (i.e. Alabama) who seem to be whipping boys for them. If they put any significant sanction on us, we need to unload on the NCAA...I work in an audit field in the Army. I can guarantee you that even in a regulated environment like mine, if an unscrupulous individual wanted to do something wrong, they could, unless there was an auditor or regulator with them all of the time. You can't monitor everybody all of the time. If so, there would never be crime or other misdoings...If people don't see that OU is becoming some sort of scapegoat for the NCAA, then they need a reality check.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Dude, They had over 20 players working there. It was by far their largest employer. How could you not keep up with that? He was even clocked in during football practices. They should have known about this.

The sad fact is that this is the third sport that this has happened in in less than two years. That's a trend and shows something needs to be done. I'm don't know any recent facts, but I would bet a lot of money that OU's compliance department is now a lot bigger.

Oh, and BTW. The compliance department came to know about the problem through an email that was sent to them and the NCAA. There "self reporting" was a preemptive strike. This came out in the Oklahoman several months ago. Why do you guys keep saying that the department did their job?

Finally, I'm sorry if this sounds attacking. I'm really not trying to attack OU.

How could the compliance office know if 1) the company isn't following the rules and allowing clocking in and not working and 2) the students aren't reporting the employment as they should. At some point, you expect the rules and forms to be followed until given evidence to the contrary. This is what seems to be the case. Lots of crap can be printed or rumored (like poke4christ is GAY), doesn't mean everything is always checked out if not credible. Since I don't really think you are gay and you probably aren't unless you want to say you are, then I doubt you are going to work hard to refute that comment. You'll just let it blow by and die the death a comment like that deserves.

[Fraggle145]

How could the compliance office know if 1) the company isn't following the rules and allowing clocking in and not working and 2) the students aren't reporting the employment as they should. At some point, you expect the rules and forms to be followed until given evidence to the contrary. This is what seems to be the case. Lots of crap can be printed or rumored (like poke4christ is GAY), doesn't mean everything is always checked out if not credible. Since I don't really think you are gay and you probably aren't unless you want to say you are, then I doubt you are going to work hard to refute that comment. You'll just let it blow by and die the death a comment like that deserves.

Or it could be the truth... ;) Those comments he made are all the more reason poke4christ bugs the hell out of me. I still dont get the love this board has for that twofaced poke.

[poke4christ]

Or it could be the truth... ;) Those comments he made are all the more reason poke4christ bugs the hell out of me. I still dont get the love this board has for that twofaced poke.

First of all, what loved do I get? I get very little I'll tell you that. You should look at my spek. All I get are "go away" and "stupid poke". No reason for those negs except for the fact that I'm an OSU fan.

Second, you want to call me two faced, you better back it up. The only reason that you have for it is that thread you linked to (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83911&highlight=poke4christ). Yes I wished you guys good luck in the Big 12 championship. Yes I was rooting for Nebraska (due to family ties). News flash, you can wish someone good luck and yet not want them to win. Nebraska fans do it to every incoming team, and they are widely considered the class of College Football fans.

That's all you got and it doesn't hold water dude. You guys can throw out random OSU insults all you want, they'll just roll right off my back. However, if you are questioning my character as a person I'll take exception to that and I'll call you out for it.

BTW, never in that entire thread was any post by myself on Orangepower.com cited (except by myself). I admit that I wanted NU to win, but that was a minor deal and in no way a direct contradiction. Did you ever see specific posts? How about you share those with the rest of us? I remember searching at the time and I couldn't find anything near as extreme as what people were referring to. Once again, if your going to make claims about me, back it up. Don't just listen to rumor and run with it.

[Scott D]

Criminal act?

you do know that you could go to jail if your employer found out you were intentionally falsifying time worked records in order to receive compensation for work not done. As SNP said, it is fraud....however, when the employer is in on the fraudulent time sheets (as McRae obviously was), it's a different boat altogether, and BRS&I is lucky that they were sold to the new owner, or the Federal Government likely would have been barking up their tree.

[Scott D]

Well the boosters could fund it. There are a bunch of Buddy Garritys in the world looking for a place to make a difference.

Scholarships don't pay for food.

Out of all the universities in the United States only 6 had Athletic Departments that were in the black. You'd still have to scale back a ton on 'non revenue' athletics to get near the current status. In the meantime you've just deprived thousands of kids from being able to attend college.

[CobraKai]

you do know that you could go to jail if your employer found out you were intentionally falsifying time worked records in order to receive compensation for work not done. As SNP said, it is fraud....however, when the employer is in on the fraudulent time sheets (as McRae obviously was), it's a different boat altogether, and BRS&I is lucky that they were sold to the new owner, or the Federal Government likely would have been barking up their tree.

That is my understanding as well. If I take a laptop computer from my employer it is called theft and I go to jail. If my employer gives me a laptop computer it is not. BRS&I gave money to Bomar and Quinn. IMO no criminal act occurred. Had Bomar and Quinn fradulently filled out time sheets without the employers knowledge I would see your point. I guess we can wait and see if the DA agrees and files charges. It is public record, so we will all get to see the DA's opinion on this legal matter.

[usmc-sooner]

not to defend BRS&I but giving away money is not a criminal act. It's wrong in the eyes of the NCAA but that's it.

[snp]

McRae was the General Manager, not the owner of BRS&I. I'm sure the controlling body could've pressed charges if they wanted.

[Fraggle145]

First of all, what loved do I get? I get very little I'll tell you that. You should look at my spek. All I get are "go away" and "stupid poke". No reason for those negs except for the fact that I'm an OSU fan.

Second, you want to call me two faced, you better back it up. The only reason that you have for it is that thread you linked to (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83911&highlight=poke4christ). Yes I wished you guys good luck in the Big 12 championship. Yes I was rooting for Nebraska (due to family ties). News flash, you can wish someone good luck and yet not want them to win. Nebraska fans do it to every incoming team, and they are widely considered the class of College Football fans.

That's all you got and it doesn't hold water dude. You guys can throw out random OSU insults all you want, they'll just roll right off my back. However, if you are questioning my character as a person I'll take exception to that and I'll call you out for it.

BTW, never in that entire thread was any post by myself on Orangepower.com cited (except by myself). I admit that I wanted NU to win, but that was a minor deal and in no way a direct contradiction. Did you ever see specific posts? How about you share those with the rest of us? I remember searching at the time and I couldn't find anything near as extreme as what people were referring to. Once again, if your going to make claims about me, back it up. Don't just listen to rumor and run with it.

1st of all you have more spek on this board than the majority of people on it. most of the people dogging you are probably giveing you blue spek. As for nebraska fans doing it all the time, ya they do, but they do it out in the open and dont have to be called out on being a twofaced faker. Never once over here did you say you wanted Nebraska to win. And I did see specific posts they were in the orginal thread before they were taken down. I believe they were probably referring to this one http://www.orangepower.com/showpost.php?p=222134&postcount=12
which I believe has been editted from its original state. I am not just saying that to make you look bad either. There is no way to know when that post was last edited on your site because I looked. I do not believe that is what that post originally said. Part of the reason I believe that is because I read the orignal post in that thread on your site. Another reason is this quote right here that says you had written that you hate ou.


posted that he hates OU......which is fine, its a mutual thing, but please....save the "we just lost to OU again" post game congrats to yourself

Everyone in that thread that commented afterward read your post in the thread on your site and knows what it said. That kind of reaction from other long term posters is not likely to come from something as benign as what is now on your board.

Either way it is still two faced because you came over here saying "good luck, blah blah blah" and then you turn around and go over there and are like yay Huskers I hate OU. I just dont want you coming over here spreading your "Im such a good guy stuff" all the time if you cant even tell your allegiances. Which is the gist of the entire soonerfans thread after that point. save it because I for one am tired of it.

[Scott D]

not to defend BRS&I but giving away money is not a criminal act. It's wrong in the eyes of the NCAA but that's it.

depends on how they are giving it away as to whether or not the IRS feels the need to 'look into it'.

[TexasLidig8r]

Pokey.. if you aren't in the burnt orange spek rating on this site.. you really aren't trying. :D

Thicken the skin some Okieaggy.

[MamaMia]

Dude, They had over 20 players working there. It was by far their largest employer. How could you not keep up with that? He was even clocked in during football practices. They should have known about this.

The sad fact is that this is the third sport that this has happened in in less than two years. That's a trend and shows something needs to be done. I'm don't know any recent facts, but I would bet a lot of money that OU's compliance department is now a lot bigger.

Oh, and BTW. The compliance department came to know about the problem through an email that was sent to them and the NCAA. There "self reporting" was a preemptive strike. This came out in the Oklahoman several months ago. Why do you guys keep saying that the department did their job?

Finally, I'm sorry if this sounds attacking. I'm really not trying to attack OU.He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. In other words I think you need to hush up when your beloved cowboys have a history of allowing druggies, thugs and woman beaters on their team. This is really none of your business.

[Fraggle145]

He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. In other words I think you need to hush up when your beloved cowboys have a history of allowing druggies, thugs and woman beaters on their team. This is really none of your business.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MamaMia again.

:D

[ADs_Agent]

He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. In other words I think you need to hush up when your beloved cowboys have a history of allowing druggies, thugs and woman beaters on their team. This is really none of your business.

don't forget statuatory rapist.

[poke4christ]

1st of all you have more spek on this board than the majority of people on it. most of the people dogging you are probably giveing you blue spek. As for nebraska fans doing it all the time, ya they do, but they do it out in the open and dont have to be called out on being a twofaced faker. Never once over here did you say you wanted Nebraska to win. And I did see specific posts they were in the orginal thread before they were taken down. I believe they were probably referring to this one http://www.orangepower.com/showpost.php?p=222134&postcount=12
which I believe has been editted from its original state. I am not just saying that to make you look bad either. There is no way to know when that post was last edited on your site because I looked. I do not believe that is what that post originally said. Part of the reason I believe that is because I read the orignal post in that thread on your site. Another reason is this quote right here that says you had written that you hate ou.



Everyone in that thread that commented afterward read your post in the thread on your site and knows what it said. That kind of reaction from other long term posters is not likely to come from something as benign as what is now on your board.

Either way it is still two faced because you came over here saying "good luck, blah blah blah" and then you turn around and go over there and are like yay Huskers I hate OU. I just dont want you coming over here spreading your "Im such a good guy stuff" all the time if you cant even tell your allegiances. Which is the gist of the entire soonerfans thread after that point. save it because I for one am tired of it.

Tell you what, I'll go you one further and post another thread that I found on OP.

http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=30009&highlight=nebraska

Once again here I'm saying I support Nebraska, but in neither of these threads am I saying I hate OU or bad mouthing them. If anything, I'm complimenting them in last thread I cited here.

You don't have to believe me, but I didn't edit either of these posts. They are both there in their original form.

In the end, what really matters is the spirit in which I made the post after the ****** game, and that was in the most open, honest, humble way I could. I had no animosity or ill-will. If you still want to hate me, that's your business. However, it is based only on the fact that I wear orange instead of red.

MamaMia, I'm not throwing stones in here. I'm simply defending myself and offering an opinion. In fact, I find it ironic that you follow it the comment up by throwing a few stones of your own.

Finally, I'm not here for a fight. However, I do defend myself when I'm attacked. I would love to put all of this animosity behind us. Let bygones be bygones and such. Do you guys think that's something you can do?

[poke4christ]

Note: I did a test on orangepower and it does make a note when people change a post. It's the same software that is used over here on this site, so I'm sure it works the same way. So I guess I can prove I haven't edited my posts.

[MamaMia]

Tell you what, I'll go you one further and post another thread that I found on OP.

http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=30009&highlight=nebraska

Once again here I'm saying I support Nebraska, but in neither of these threads am I saying I hate OU or bad mouthing them. If anything, I'm complimenting them in last thread I cited here.

You don't have to believe me, but I didn't edit either of these posts. They are both there in their original form.

In the end, what really matters is the spirit in which I made the post after the ****** game, and that was in the most open, honest, humble way I could. I had no animosity or ill-will. If you still want to hate me, that's your business. However, it is based only on the fact that I wear orange instead of red.

MamaMia, I'm not throwing stones in here. I'm simply defending myself and offering an opinion. In fact, I find it ironic that you follow it the comment up by throwing a few stones of your own.

Finally, I'm not here for a fight. However, I do defend myself when I'm attacked. I would love to put all of this animosity behind us. Let bygones be bygones and such. Do you guys think that's something you can do?
Hey, I'm simply repeating what Christ said. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him, afterall it is you, not I, with the name of Christ in my nic name.

Oh and you know what else? This NCAA thingy is still none of your bees wax. Lets talk about how it was worth the price of a bowl game ticket to be in Stillwater this year to watch the Sooners beat your cowpokies AGAIN! :pop:

[Ash]

Hey, I'm simply repeating what Christ said. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him, afterall it is you, not I, with the name of Christ in my nic name.

Oh and you know what else? This NCAA thingy is still none of your bees wax. Lets talk about how it was worth the price of a bowl game ticket to be in Stillwater this year to watch the Sooners beat your cowpokies AGAIN! :pop:

MamaMiowned!!1!:D :D

[Tear Down This Wall]

Legal beagles:

If, the NCAA, in spite of OU's vigorous defense, and in spite of the NCAA's lack of appropriate penalities vis-a-vis Ohio State and USC, penalizes OU....... is this an actionable situation? Is a law suit a possibility?

No. The NCAA doesn't do things in bulk. They do things on a case by case basis. The OSU and USC investigations are ongoing. And, a lawsuit for what? We were treated differently? Give me a break.

Some of you need to settle down. You are being way too defensive. The reason these decisions are happening faster with us is that our transgression is far smaller than what they are having to investigate at OSU and USC.

Also, this is something I've said before and will contiue to say, the bottom line is that compliance is part of what the athletic director does. If we don't have enough people in compliance, it's no one's fault but Joe Castiglione. He's the man.

Further, you'd think that as the athletic director at a school that has been on probation before, you be certain that you have enough people in compliance. I don't believe Joe Castiglione has done that.

Finally, more than just the compliance department needs to get itself under control. We had a small discussion about this after the Fiesta Bowl. We don't need strength and conditioning coaches barking at opposing players. We don't need the athletic director walking around the sideline like some poor man's Jerry Jones. NCAA problems from gymnastics to basketball aren't solved by walking around playing Mr. Big Shot at football games. There are too many problems across too many sports for this to simply be brushed off as a "they're after us" mentality.

The university is bigger than the strength coach and AD. They better tighten up their acts. Within a decade, three men's sports are under the gun. Somebody needs to wake the F up and get real about what is happening.

So, stop your whining and demand that the AD start doing his job in the area of compliance.

[MojoRisen]

Kids break rules, Kids get caught by compliance and kicked off team.

What is the problem- that they broke the rules or that we didn't catch them fast enough.

The penalty exile was pretty harsh...

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Like most that have chimed in I don't like the little blurb about the TV commitments. However, I think if they were to impose any kind of a TV penalty it would be along the lines of "you're prohibited from having all 12 regular season games broadcast." I can't see them yanking OU off the tube completely for this because of the the tangled webs already woven regarding conference television tie-ins with multiple broadcasting companies. Simply put: too much money involved for the conferences and NCAA, even moreso than just OU.

The only thing I could see them possibly envisioning is a "game broadcasts are to be capped at X number of games." Which could be a way of penalizing OU monetarily since we have to pay visiting opponents like North Texas to come play. And with no TV revenue that would have to come straight out of OU's pocket. But even if that were the case, do we really need to see the OU-Utah State bloodbath on TV anyway? The only thing that would stink is I'm sure we would see a ticket price increase over and above normally expected.

Anyway, just speculating/imagining.... The only other thing I would add is that if they are going to nick us for a game broadcast or two or whatever, they very well might be simply using OU to set precedent for USC and Ohio State when they get to the hearing table, especially if their violations are found to be as bad/worse. I mean, if idiot and the Eskimo were "failure to adequately monitor" on OUr part, just what the heck is Reggie Bush to USC?

[TexasLidig8r]

Kids break rules, Kids get caught by compliance and kicked off team.

.

Therein lies the fallacy and perhaps the perceived fault.

In this case it was..

Kids break rules.
Kids did NOT get caught by compliance.

In the initial investigation generated by the Lexus questions, the compliance department gave Big Red and the athletes working there a clean bill of health. A statement was issued that they had investigated other athletes' employment and did not find any improprieties. It was only after emails were sent to OU's president with copies to the NCAA, that another investigation was conducted and found the wrongdoing.

If the informing email had not been sent, OU would have conceivably been off the hook and compliance would have gone on their merry way.

[FaninAma]

Therein lies the fallacy and perhaps the perceived fault.

In this case it was..

Kids break rules.
Kids did NOT get caught by compliance.

In the initial investigation generated by the Lexus questions, the compliance department gave Big Red and the athletes working there a clean bill of health. A statement was issued that they had investigated other athletes' employment and did not find any improprieties. It was only after emails were sent to OU's president with copies to the NCAA, that another investigation was conducted and found the wrongdoing.

If the informing email had not been sent, OU would have conceivably been off the hook and compliance would have gone on their merry way.

So at what point was OU supposed to know that Bomar and Quinn were working at Big Red? They did not turn in the requested form that notifies the AD that they have off-campus jobs.

Does UT follow every recruit 24/7 to find out if they have lied on the requested disclosure forms? Does the UT compliance office hire detective agencies to follow recruits around off campus year round to make sure they haven't lied on their compliance forms? If you tell me UT could have caught this any quicker then I'm going to have to say you're full of sh*t, which is a pretty good bet knowing you are a Texas fan.

Remember that at the time of Peterson's used Lexus incident Bomar and Quinn were no longer working at Big Red and hadn't worked there for over a year. Add to that the fact that they never notified the University of Oklahoma that they had ever worked there. I guess OU is supposed to request the employment records of every business in Norman/OKC and other places to make sure there are no student athletes unknowingly employed anywhere in the freaking United States? Moron.

[MojoRisen]

My understanding is that we informed the NCAA and took out own action.

[Widescreen]

Is it just me or does Mama seem fiestier since the name change?

[Texas Golfer]

If the NCAA sanctions us, I would love to see us sue them for unfair, biased, and selective enforcement practices. The monetary damages should be triple the revenue that we would have lost because of these practices.

[Harry Beanbag]

No reason for those negs except for the fact that I'm an OSU fan.


That's reason enough. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif

[snp]

If the NCAA sanctions us, I would love to see us sue them for unfair, biased, and selective enforcement practices. The monetary damages should be triple the revenue that we would have lost because of these practices.

Let me know how that goes.


Wait, we already know it'll end badly.

[Seamus]

That's reason enough. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif


Heh.

And thank you!

[jrsooner]

Therein lies the fallacy and perhaps the perceived fault.
In this case it was..
Kids break rules.
Kids did NOT get caught by compliance.It's called a "detective" control for a reason. One of OU's detective controls are people notifying them of things that are not always caught by monitoring controls. Why do you think more and more corporations are getting "snitch" 800 numbers installed? It's called a detective control. Any good auditor will tell you that no controls are foolproof and people will try to get around them if they are able to. That's why you build up "detective" controls to catch those items that are outside of what normal monitoring will catch. Compliance did in fact catch them through their detective control. After that control signalled a red flag, then their other processes took place. You're statement is just ludicrous! If they were "caught" by a detective control established by the compliancy department then they were "caught" by the compliancy department.

The IRS must not catch tax dodgers... even their website has this same "detective" control...
http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=106778,00.html

oh, yeah by the way...on the OU compliancy website:
24-hour OU Athletics Compliance Hotline: (405) 325-6479

all the whorns site states is:
We have summarized the applicable NCAA rules in this pamphlet. Please take the time to read it carefully, and should you have any questions, call the athletics compliance office at (512) 471-7285.

So it seems that OU has more monitoring controls than the whorns in this case. I'm curious at how many times during the year, that tu audits all of Red McCombs dealerships pay records to see if an athlete is working there without notifying them?

[jrsooner]

My understanding is that we informed the NCAA and took out own action.I think what actually happens is they notify the Big 12 compliancy division, and then they (Big 12) notify the NCAA. I may be wrong, if anyone from OU's compliancy department is reading this then they can correct me.

[usmc-sooner]

at UT kids get caught with a boatload of weed, claim it's not theirs everything's cool.
at OSU they recruit a child molestor,.....well hell it's OSU

[goingoneight]

Hey, I'm simply repeating what Christ said. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him, afterall it is you, not I, with the name of Christ in my nic name.

Oh and you know what else? This NCAA thingy is still none of your bees wax. Lets talk about how it was worth the price of a bowl game ticket to be in Stillwater this year to watch the Sooners beat your cowpokies AGAIN! :pop:
:les: pwn3d!!1

[goingoneight]

Therein lies the fallacy and perhaps the perceived fault.

In this case it was..

Kids break rules.
Kids did NOT get caught by compliance.

In the initial investigation generated by the Lexus questions, the compliance department gave Big Red and the athletes working there a clean bill of health. A statement was issued that they had investigated other athletes' employment and did not find any improprieties. It was only after emails were sent to OU's president with copies to the NCAA, that another investigation was conducted and found the wrongdoing.

If the informing email had not been sent, OU would have conceivably been off the hook and compliance would have gone on their merry way.

The Lexus was a kid driving a car he wasn't sure if he wwas going to buy or not. Granted it was a Lexus, if memory serves me right, it was a 97... so it's not like he's rolling in P. Diddy's program cars. I signed a release on a vehicle when I worked at a dealership, and I drove it three weeks before I bought it, and I'm just a normal guy. The two situations, have nothing in common other than employed Sooner Football Players and the name of the dealership. It was clearly stated in all reports that Bomar and Quinn had not notified the compliance staff and coaches of their employment, and were "conspiring" (if you will) to clock each other in and out when they worked separate shifts. The payroll aggy was actually a godsend when she noticed that "hey, this little jerk isn't working 40 friggin hours a week!" I guaran-damn-tee you we'd have been in some deep shat if Bomar led the team to 12 victories and a BIG 12 Championship/BCS Bowl berth.

I don't know why people think that this was incompetence on OU's behalf, and I don't know why people seem to think we do this as a regular practice. Bomar was constantly getting in trouble for disturbing the peace, Minor in Possession of Alcohol, and on the field issues as well. While you can roll your eyes about a kid spiking the ball on your own 3-yard line and let it go, you can't let a kid get away with cheating the system. He ripped off the delaership, his school, his coachign staff, and his players. He gave an entire Sooner Nation a bad name it doesn't deserve under Stoops, which has otherwise been run smoothly.

AD was told, buy the car or give it back. Your bosses/dealers will tell you that eventually if they think they aren't going to make the sale. He gave it back and drove that little Nissan or whatever it was up until just recently, when I'm sure his draft announcement allows him to drive whatever the fark he wants.

Bomar and Quinn were interviewed about their employment status, and they lied about it. If you think I'm making this up, go read the NCAA and school reports on it. They're all over the news. They lied, trying to save their asses, as any cocky kid would do, because in the back of their minds they thought either they could get away with it, or they could buy some time to lie or transfer, or whatever. When I was 19 years old, I told some lies to cover my ***, too. The facts were not shady, they were specific and documented, or else Stoops would have suspended them and got his players out of the dealership. You don't revoke a scholarship worth thousands of dollars, and you don't just kick a kid off a team, and you don't do it the day before fall practice opens when you're expected to be a preseason Number One by many polls unless you have your **** straight.

If we were "cheating," don't you think Big Mouth Jerry Bomar would have accused us of making the offer? No, he shut his mouth in embarassment of his blue-chipper recuit son went to play for some East Popcorn State. No accusations from Quinn either.

It is simple folks (in other words, people rooting for us to fail)... the problem was investigated, reviewed throughout the course of several weeks to make sure the facts were straight, the University took action to show the culprits the door, get the other players away from the crooked boosters at BRSI, ban the boosters for quite some time from any OU Sooner-related activities, you know the story. The kids had to earn that money they likely spent all of back and donate it to charity, while transferring to "powerhouses" :rolleyes: Montana and Sam Houston State.

The people and media who are salivating over the thought of us getting nailed are spinning this way out of proportion. I am a Sooner faithful, I fully admit there should be some action taken for having three programs investigated. But since they were all nit-picking "violations..." nothing more than a few scholarship limitations is necessary. And I do believe that Boren is ****ed off enough that he'll sue the NCAA if we're harshly penalized for taking proper actions. All in all, I say the only "punishment falls on the violators first, who have been dismissed... and maybe the compliance staff, who'll likely get a slap on the hand.


There, I presented an argument without comparing OUr situation to USC and tOSU, ya happy? :cool:

[The VIIIth]

OU disagrees with NCAA allegation (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/033107dnspooufb.3656344.html)

School fighting claim that it did not monitor athletes' employment

10:37 PM CDT on Friday, March 30, 2007

By GARY JACOBSON / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

The University of Oklahoma accepts the NCAA's allegation that three former football players took extra benefits from an auto dealership but is aggressively fighting a claim that it failed to adequately monitor their employment.

"We strongly disagree with this charge and assert that the University met, if not exceeded, industry standards ...," OU president David Boren wrote in a letter to members of the NCAA Division I infractions committee.

OU released the letter, dated March 7, and its response to the NCAA's allegations Friday, in advance of the university's scheduled April 14 appearance before the committee in Indianapolis. The NCAA considers all of the allegations to be potential major violations.

Previously, OU has maintained only two players accepted pay for work not performed at Big Red Sports/Imports in Norman – quarterback Rhett Bomar from Grand Prairie and offensive lineman J.D. Quinn from Garland.

In the notice of allegation sent to OU in February, the NCAA said a third player also took money he didn't earn. The Morning News has reported that Jermaine Hardison, a former walk-on receiver from Midwest City, Okla., was paid for an average of 43 hours a week during much of spring term 2005 while school was in session and spring practice was held.

Bomar and Quinn were dismissed from the team last August, and the NCAA reinstated them after the season. They transferred to schools with Division I-AA football programs: Bomar to Sam Houston State and Quinn to Montana. Combined, they accepted more than $15,500 in unearned benefits from Big Red, the NCAA determined.

Hardison withdrew from school in September.

Unlike Bomar and Quinn, who clocked in and out for each other, the report states the third player was not involved in a "conspiracy."

But because there were "serious conflicts in his documentation" and the player refused to meet with investigators, "the University had no choice other than to determine violations occurred." OU investigators interviewed the player once, but that was before they had received all of his work records.

Player names were redacted from the materials released Friday, but two lists show 17 players worked at Big Red during the period investigated.

In the report, OU calls its response to the Big Red situation "a model for how an institution should react when potential and actual violations are discovered" and calls the monitoring allegation "unfair and unwarranted." The university blamed the problem on the players and a former Big Red general manager, Brad McRae, who condoned deliberate violation of the rules.

McRae left the dealership in spring 2006, when it was acquired by new ownership. Investigators talked to him once but obtained limited information, according to the documents. He has refused contact since.

"Their scheme would not have been uncovered if not for the University's aggressive investigation, Big Red's change in management and ownership, and the subsequent cooperation of the new management and ownership," OU's response said.

The university argues that its self-imposed penalties are adequate. They include dismissing Bomar and Quinn, not filling their scholarships last season and banning McRae from association with the school for five years.

As part of its preparation for the April meeting, the NCAA requested and received a review of OU's televised game commitments for the next three seasons.



I really don't like the sound of that last sentence. :mad:


Please note that OU only has a TV schedule that goes out one (1) year in advance. There is no 3 year TV schedule...please see Bob Barry Jr's response that I posted in another thread with regard to KEY inaccuracies reported by both the DMN and the AP. (The Spelling is Juniors, not mine).

[Fraggle145]

That's reason enough. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif

I wish more people would see the how wise this action is. :D

[Fraggle145]

Tell you what, I'll go you one further and post another thread that I found on OP.

http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=30009&highlight=nebraska

Once again here I'm saying I support Nebraska, but in neither of these threads am I saying I hate OU or bad mouthing them. If anything, I'm complimenting them in last thread I cited here.

You don't have to believe me, but I didn't edit either of these posts. They are both there in their original form.

In the end, what really matters is the spirit in which I made the post after the ****** game, and that was in the most open, honest, humble way I could. I had no animosity or ill-will. If you still want to hate me, that's your business. However, it is based only on the fact that I wear orange instead of red.

MamaMia, I'm not throwing stones in here. I'm simply defending myself and offering an opinion. In fact, I find it ironic that you follow it the comment up by throwing a few stones of your own.

Finally, I'm not here for a fight. However, I do defend myself when I'm attacked. I would love to put all of this animosity behind us. Let bygones be bygones and such. Do you guys think that's something you can do?

1) Nope.

2) ....Yep that about does it.

Why cant we be friends? :stunned:

[goingoneight]

Thanks, SNP... :D

[AlabamaSooner]

I can only hope we don't get hammered. This might be another perfect case of "the punishment doesn't fit the crime." Been through this with Bama already, would hate to go through it with my alma mater. Everyone knows what's happened to Bama the last decade since the NCAA.:( Below is what I posted on Tidefans.com...

***This scares the crap outta me. Been through it with Bama already, not looking forward to having to go through it with OU. I don't think OU's punishment will fit the "crime". I'm preparing myself for it already. Maybe it's just me, but honestly (and I don't care what school it is....USC, Auburn, Florida, etc.), shouldn't it be the players' business anyway? It's their jobs and unless they're working directly for the university or through a university person, it should be none of the NCAA's business to start with. The individuals are working and being paid from someone who's not in the athletic department. Don't get me wrong, the WHOLE situation is wrong no matter how you look at it. However, it just seems that the NCAA reaches out a little to far to other operations sometimes.

If a coach/dept. member pays a player, they should be hit hard. There has been no connection between this boss and any setup between the university. I guess what I'm saying is, "What you did is wrong, but since it didn't directly involve the University, you won't get hammered." I'm not advocating this at all, just think the NCAA needs to back out of players' business that's off the field and doesn't involve the university sometimes. Were the players paid extra because they played football? Sure, but if that person (non-athletic personel) decides to give them that money, so be it. It's not right, but the NCAA will go overboard in all cases like this. I honestly feel like the NCAA has just as much right to punish me if I were the one working as they do the players. It was a NON-athletic payment and was a JOB that they were working. I know, I know, there's the whole booster thing, but if there's no connection set up, they should just leave crap like this alone IMO. Maybe I'm just still bitter from Bama vs. NCAA for so long, but I had to vent. They need to get off their "PC" horse.***

[JLB]

Wee,I cant wait for all this.I love how history repeats itself.If I remember right last time OU went down,so did Texas and BLOWSU.
What I cant understand is how the NCAA could reinstate that little bastard
Bomar.For some reason I can picture that little A -hole crying at a meeting between himself and the NAZIs I mean NCAA.
Blomar"I didnt know what was going on,I mean{sob,Sob},you can ask dadadaddy,they told me I could have some overtime."
NCAA"Its okay son,your just a kid. We know how the manipulators at OU work.Its not like its the first time we had to deal with them."

[PAW]

Please note that OU only has a TV schedule that goes out one (1) year in advance. There is no 3 year TV schedule...please see Bob Barry Jr's response that I posted in another thread with regard to KEY inaccuracies reported by both the DMN and the AP. (The Spelling is Juniors, not mine).

Yea, I figured it out back on page 2 but thanks. ;)

[MamaMia]

Is it just me or does Mama seem fiestier since the name change?
Oh, I've always been like a mother bear when it comes to protecting the Sooners, however I have been watching alot of Glenn Beck lately. I think he may be rubbing off on me just a tad. :P

[MojoRisen]

THey shouldn't punish the entire sooner nation because two kids got busted and removed from the program.

the comunist will be in a situation too do the right thing or expect reprocution!

[AlabamaSooner]

THey shouldn't punish the entire sooner nation because two kids got busted and removed from the program.

the comunist will be in a situation too do the right thing or expect reprocution!

And the NCAA is ORDERING that the two players pay the money back. I'm not saying what they did is right, but I'd tell the NCAA to shove it. It really shouldn't have been their business to start with. *I'm not defending their actions, just saying that it REALLY was outside the NCAA circle if you ask me.*

[TexasLidig8r]

And the NCAA is ORDERING that the two players pay the money back. I'm not saying what they did is right, but I'd tell the NCAA to shove it. It really shouldn't have been their business to start with. *I'm not defending their actions, just saying that it REALLY was outside the NCAA circle if you ask me.*

No, the NCAA is saying if you want your eligibility back, then you will pay back the money to charity. If the players don't want their eligibility back, they don't have to pay.

And since when is overseeing compliance departments and investigating whether NCAA rules and regulations, (which all universities agree to follow) are being violated and punishing institutions who do not follow the rules, not an NCAA function?

[AlabamaSooner]

No, the NCAA is saying if you want your eligibility back, then you will pay back the money to charity. If the players don't want their eligibility back, they don't have to pay.

And since when is overseeing compliance departments and investigating whether NCAA rules and regulations, (which all universities agree to follow) are being violated and punishing institutions who do not follow the rules, not an NCAA function?

See my first post in this thread. Like I said, what they did was WRONG. I'm not saying all this just because it's OU. It could be any school. Long story short, if the money doesn't come directly from the university or is set up through the university, it shouldn't be the NCAA's business. Getting extra money on the side is wrong, but it all depends on who it's coming from IMO. Just my 2 cents.

[Scott D]

Oh, I've always been like a mother bear when it comes to protecting the Sooners, however I have been watching alot of Glenn Beck lately. I think he may be rubbing off on me just a tad. :P

Is PapaPia aware of this? :D

[MamaMia]

Is PapaPia aware of this? :DYes. I mean, he knows I really like the Glenn Beck Show. :D

[TexasLidig8r]

See my first post in this thread. Like I said, what they did was WRONG. I'm not saying all this just because it's OU. It could be any school. Long story short, if the money doesn't come directly from the university or is set up through the university, it shouldn't be the NCAA's business. Getting extra money on the side is wrong, but it all depends on who it's coming from IMO. Just my 2 cents.

So Tom Hicks and Red McCombs and Joe Jammail should be free to offer whatever obscene amounts of money they want at high school athletes? Sweet!!!!!!!!:D

[Harry Beanbag]

So Tom Hicks and Red McCombs and Joe Jammail should be free to offer whatever obscene amounts of money they want at high school athletes? Sweet!!!!!!!!:D


You mean they don't now?