Military recruiter vs. gay man - missiles misfiring

[Chuck Bao]

For our entertainment pleasure, we have on the interweb a very stupid email exchange between a recruiter, Sgt. Marcia Ramode, and a openly gay man, Corey Andrew.

I suggest that we invite them both here to continue their debate.

Link from the Jersy Journal:

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1174888546111830.xml&coll=3



Sgt. Ramode: My name is Marcia Ramode, and I am United States Army recruiter. I saw your resume on career builder and we have lots of vacant positions in Logistics, Administration...If interested please give me a call at my toll free number.

Andrew: Awesome! Sounds great! The US Military has so many vacant positions and opportunities. I had no idea. I'm seriously considering contacting you. One thing, I'm not up on current politics but since its 2007, I would imagine also that I am now able to serve in the US military as an openly gay man, right?

Ramode: WELL IF YOU ARE GAY WE DON'T TAKE YOU. YOU ARE CONSIDERED UNQUALIFIED.

Andrew: Wow! Unqualified to serve my country just because I'm gay? It's because they think I might all of a sudden desire one last kiss from my fellow male solider if ever facing death at the hands of the enemy in a fox hole, isn't?... Funny, the US Government doesn't mind taking my "gay" dollars every tax season or out of my paycheck every two weeks. I'm stunned that the US ARMY could afford to be so choosey when I see sergeants on my school campus and in the local shopping Mall...begging teenagers to enlist.

Ramode: YOU ARE DEFINITELY UNQUALIFIED, NOW TAKE YOU GAY SELF SOMEPLACE ELSE WE DO NOT TOLERATE GAY PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN ANY PART OF THE MILITARY. AND IF IT BOTHERS YOU PAYING TAXES THEN MIGRATE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.... AND IF IT BOTHERS YOU ABOUT THE US MILITARY RECRUITING THEN YOU GO TELL THE BOARD OF EDUCATION .... AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE RECRUITERS RECRUITING IN FRONT YOU HIGH SCHOOL THEN COMPLAIN TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR BETTER YET TRY COMPLAINING TO MAYOR BLOOMBERG AND SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY... YOU SHOULD SAY THANK YOU MILITARY PEOPLE FOR WHAT YOU DO SO THAT YOU CAN LIVE A FREE LIFE IN THIS COUNTRY. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

Andrew: Before you go on waving your flag all over the place let me first inform you, that as an African American who's ancestry is most likely MORE deeply rooted in American history than yours ever will be...I respect the millions of soldiers fighting to protect my rights every day but just so you know, those rights include me being gay... I applaud servicemen and women everyday for their role in our country's protection. However, for you and the government to deem homosexuals "unqualified" to risk their own lives and defend their own freedom as well as their country's freedom, is moronic.

Ramode: OH I FORGOT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT YES YOU MIGHT TO TRY TO KISS A SOLDIER IN THE FOXHOLE SO THAT IS A NO NO.

Andrew: You are living proof that "Don't Ask Don't tell" is a fallacy. You initially rejected me without any consideration whatsoever of my integrity, or abilities. This behavior is at the very core of the discrimination that has plagued the USA for decades. You should know that I never had any intention of joining the military; I simply wanted to have this discussion to prove a point. With over 2,500 cases of anti-gay harassment acts against gay soldiers, including bashings and murders, for you to say the US Military only takes "straights" is delusional.

Ramode: YOU HEAD OFF TO THE GAY LAND OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO MORALS AND GET RID OF YOURSELF. PERSONALLY I THINK BEING GAY IS DISGUSTING AND IMMORAL.... AS AN AFRICAN HAVE NO PLACE TO SAY YOUR ROOTS ARE DEEPLY ROOTED HERE. MY ROOTS ARE MUCH STRONGER THAN YOURS. YOU WERE BROUGHT HERE BEING YOUR WILL POWER WHEREAS MY ROOTS RUN FROM THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN. I HAVE MORE RIGHTS HERE THAN YOU AND MY ROOTS HAVE BEEN HERE EVER SINCE BEFORE THE AMERICAS WERE DISCOVERED...YOU TAKE YOUR GAY A-- OFF SOMEPLACE AND GO TO SOME OTHER COUNTRY AND BADMOUTH THE MILITARY...TAKE YOUR A-- BACK WHERE YOU BELONG NOT HERE.

Andrew: Clearly with your limited vocabulary and poor spelling, the Army mayhave been the only option YOU had in life. Granted, there are highly intellectual people in the military. You're just not one of them. ...Native American history you are so proud of and research their position on homosexuality. They are very tolerant and accepting of homosexuals believing that the inner spirit is true to itself in its nature. They are less tolerant of fools than they are of homosexuals. So take that to your next rain dance.

Ramode: YOU GO BACK TO AFRICA AND DO YOUR GAY VOODOO LIMBO TANGO AND WANGO DANCE AND JUMP AROUND AND PRANCE AND RUN ALL OVER THE PLACE HALF NAKED THERE AND PRACTICE YOUR GAY MORALS OVER THERE THAT'S WHERE YOU BELONG....I AM REPORTING YOU AS SPAM AND ADDING YOU TO MY BLOCK SENDER LIST SO I DO NOT HAVE TO HEAR FROM YOU AGAIN...

[Tulsa_Fireman]

That's sad...

Not for the homosexual, but that this particular recruiter is what the Jersey Journal uses as a representation of the United States Armed Forces, its recruitment process, and its position on sexuality.

Sad.

[Rhino]

YOU HEAD OFF TO THE GAY LAND OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO MORALS That's the most childish and, perhaps funniest, part of the whole exchange.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I'm calling bull**** on the recruiter's responses.

Do you seriously think that we train recruiters to be insensitive homophobes?

[mdklatt]

Do you seriously think that we train recruiters to be insensitive homophobes?

The more relevant question is, are they trained to not be? Even if the e-mail exchange is fake, you probably don't have to look very hard in a population as diverse as the military to find people like "Sgt. Ramode".

[Octavian]

YOU GO BACK TO AFRICA AND DO YOUR GAY VOODOO LIMBO TANGO AND WANGO DANCE


gold.

Jerry.

[Getem]

I'm calling bull**** on the recruiter's responses.

Do you seriously think that we train recruiters to be insensitive homophobes?

Yeah, that's not real. But it came directly from the gay voodoo guy, so of course he wouldn't make it up

[Octavian]

That's sad...

Not for the homosexual, but that this particular recruiter is what the Jersey Journal uses as a representation of the United States Armed Forces, its recruitment process, and its position on sexuality.

Sad.


I dunno...it seems like the recruiter conveyed the exact same message provided earlier this month by Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-03-13-pace-homosexulaity_N.htm?POE=NEWISVA

[usmc-sooner]

I'm calling bull**** on the recruiter's responses.

Do you seriously think that we train recruiters to be insensitive homophobes?

It's BS they wouldn't have all this on an e-mail, he'd simply quit calling the kid.

BTW if you openly admit to being gay you are unqualified for military. Those are the rules they've been there for a long time. Now there is a don't ask don't tell but if you volunteer the information it's a no go.

[Frozen Sooner]

This won't end well.

Not sure what either party in this conversation hoped to gain from it. It's obvious that a recruiter isn't going to be able to change military policy, and, well, responding in that manner to any inquiry isn't likely to help recruitment.

[jk the sooner fan]

i was at fort knox for 2 years and was the liaison between CID and the Recruiting command

trust me when i say i've seen recruiters do MUCH MORE stupid things than this

no idea if this is true or not, but it wouldnt surprise me one bit if it were

nor would it surprise me if it werent

[usmc-sooner]

BTW
I don't think gays should be able to serve openly, I stand by General Pace 100% he's a good man and a great Marine.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Mods,

Can we please lock or delete this thread before I go off and say something I'll regret later?

Thanks.

[usmc-sooner]

This won't end well.

Not sure what either party in this conversation hoped to gain from it. It's obvious that a recruiter isn't going to be able to change military policy, and, well, responding in that manner to any inquiry isn't likely to help recruitment.

kids not wanting to go to war will effect recruiting much more than the military's position on homosexuality. Most kids wanting to join aren't big on gay rights to begin with.

[Mixer!]

If only I knew where I put that copy of Bob Seger's "The Yellow Berets"...

[jk the sooner fan]

i agree with usmc on the gays serving

[Frozen Sooner]

kids not wanting to go to war will effect recruiting much more than the military's position on homosexuality. Most kids wanting to join aren't big on gay rights to begin with.

Point one: Probably, but again, what did he have to gain from engaging in his little diatribe?

Point two: Quite possibly. I imagine that the numerous homosexuals currently serving in the military probably support gay rights. I also imagine that there's plenty of kids who join the military who don't care about gay rights one way or the other or support them and just don't talk about it.

[Harry Beanbag]

This won't end well.

Not sure what either party in this conversation hoped to gain from it. It's obvious that a recruiter isn't going to be able to change military policy, and, well, responding in that manner to any inquiry isn't likely to help recruitment.


It probably won't help the Sergeant's career much either.

[jk the sooner fan]

my guess is that a large percentage of hetero's serving on active duty would feel very strongly about gays serving openly

i dont think they're as non-chalant about it as you might think

[Chuck Bao]

Most kids wanting to join aren't big on gay rights to begin with.

And what about the rest? The ones really big on it? Maybe to begin with?

[Rogue]

Nothing on snopes.com yet. And, yes, recruiters do more stupid **** every day.

[jk the sooner fan]

And what about the rest? The ones really big on it? Maybe to begin with?

we're not supposed to ask and they're not supposed to tell

[usmc-sooner]

Point one: Probably, but again, what did he have to gain from engaging in his little diatribe?

Point two: Quite possibly. I imagine that the numerous homosexuals currently serving in the military probably support gay rights. I also imagine that there's plenty of kids who join the military who don't care about gay rights one way or the other or support them and just don't talk about it.

as busy as recruiters are I think it was bogus. Other than that he's got his right to his opinion as well. It's the opinion of the Department of Defense, nothing new. If he did it, probablly wasn't his brightest moment.

I'll admit there are gays in the military, a few not numerous amounts. The number would fall well below 10%. Most of the kids who join the military come in believing a lot like the military does. Not all but a good majority.

[Rogue]

Oh, and FWIW, lesbians are tolerated much more than gay men in the military. And most every place else.

[Harry Beanbag]

Point two: ....I also imagine that there's plenty of kids who join the military who don't care about gay rights one way or the other or support them and just don't talk about it.


From my experience, nobody really cared much about it one way or the other. We just didn't want one our fellow sailors to come around at night and start reaching through the curtains into our bunks (which actually happened by the way :( ).

It's basically like the majority of the rest of society, don't bother us straight people and we won't care what you do on your own time.

[sooner_born_1960]

Oh, and FWIW, lesbians are tolerated much more than gay men in the military. And most every place else.
Captain Obvious?

[Rogue]

I'll admit there are gays in the military, a few not numerous amounts. The number would fall well below 10%. Most of the kids who join the military come in believing a lot like the military does. Not all but a good majority.

-If by "few" you mean thousands then I agree.

-If by "believing a lot like the military does" you mean "I sure could use that bonus and the college $$" then I agree.

No, I didn't forget the winky.

[usmc-sooner]

And what about the rest? The ones really big on it? Maybe to begin with?

if gay rights are a passion in your life, the military is probably not the career path you should take.

[Frozen Sooner]

as busy as recruiters are I think it was bogus. Other than that he's got his right to his opinion as well. It's the opinion of the Department of Defense, nothing new. If he did it, probablly wasn't his brightest moment.

I'll admit there are gays in the military, a few not numerous amounts. The number would fall well below 10%. Most of the kids who join the military come in believing a lot like the military does. Not all but a good majority.

He certainly does have a right to an opinion. Voicing said opinion as a representative of his employer isn't the brightest thing to do. I have plenty of opinions-but I do my employer a favor and don't voice them as a representative of my employer.

I'd agree that the number of gays in the military is probably below 10%. Then again, were the rules to change, that number would probably rise, right? Taking the 10% number-well, to me that's a pretty sizeable contingent. In fact, I think that tracks pretty well with the estimated incidence of homosexuality in the general population (which I think is probably a bit high.)

[usmc-sooner]

-If by "few" you mean thousands then I agree.

-If by "believing a lot like the military does" you mean "I sure could use that bonus and the college $$" then I agree.

No, I didn't forget the winky.


the number is probably around 5% or less. I've been in the Marines long enough to know that most don't want gays serving openly in the military. If it makes you feel better by calling me bigot in the spek (or whoever) has put it then fine, knock yourself out. You got your opinion I've got mine.

[Frozen Sooner]

From my experience, nobody really cared much about it one way or the other. We just didn't want one our fellow sailors to come around at night and start reaching through the curtains into our bunks (which actually happened by the way :( ).

It's basically like the majority of the rest of society, don't bother us straight people and we won't care what you do on your own time.

What's the limit of "don't bother us straight people?"

Is introducing someone to your boyfriend at a social function bothering us straight people? 'Cause as far as I know, that's a violation of "Don't ask, don't tell" and would get a guy drummed out quicker than snot.

[Harry Beanbag]

What's the limit of "don't bother us straight people?"

Is introducing someone to your boyfriend at a social function bothering us straight people? 'Cause as far as I know, that's a violation of "Don't ask, don't tell" and would get a guy drummed out quicker than snot.


I think I clearly noted the limit in my post. Fondling fellow shipmates while they sleep is over the line don't you think?

[sooner_born_1960]

the number is probably around 5% or less. I've been in the Marines long enough to know that most don't want gays serving openly in the military. If it makes you feel better by calling me bigot in the spek (or whoever) has put it then fine, knock yourself out. You got your opinion I've got mine.
The number is probably lower than the societal percentage. Whatever that is.

[Frozen Sooner]

I think I clearly noted the limit in my post. Fondling fellow shipmates while they sleep is over the line don't you think?

Well, no, to be perfectly pedantic about it, you didn't note that was the limit, simply that that was over the line. Which I agree with. Sexual battery, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is WAY out of line.

[usmc-sooner]

What's the limit of "don't bother us straight people?"

Is introducing someone to your boyfriend at a social function bothering us straight people? 'Cause as far as I know, that's a violation of "Don't ask, don't tell" and would get a guy drummed out quicker than snot.

I knew a gay Sailor, a lesbian Naval Officer, and I highly suspected 1 Marine. The gay Sailor lived down the road from me. He didn't hide his lifestyle very hard but he kept his home life and work life seperate. He understood that he volunteered to join the military and their rules. I talked to him a few times, he was worried I'd say something but I didn't. The lesbian's lover worked at the same place as my wife and they weren't very discreet either. She made a career out of it. The Marine was very feminine and hated life was an alcoholic and got out of the Marine Corps early. Nobody messed with these people.

[Rogue]

I sign my spek and wouldn't neg you for your opinion on this.

I agree with you that most in the military don't want open gayness in the ranks, and usually I hear the reason as esprit-de-corps which is hard to argue against.

I just think that many in the military have their heads in the sand about how much gayness abounds. I did a couple years in the Army, been to a few VFW halls, and see literally hundreds of veterans every day. Scads of 'em are (and were when they were in the military) gay. Don't take my word for it if it is uncomfortable, but please don't patronize me by making up statistics about how many gay men you know are in the USMC to back up your wishful thinking.

"Don't ask don't tell" has been criticized for a long time but it is an interesting compromise that allows gays to serve without lying, the military to maintain the status quo which isn't so bad, and passively acknowledges (without accepting) that gays have, do, and will serve in the armed forces.

[Rogue]

Yup, unwanted "activity" is sexual harrassment in the military and is where the zero-tolerance policy is observed strictly.

[Chuck Bao]

if gay rights are a passion in your life, the military is probably not the career path you should take.

I think my passion is freedom, so that anyone can choose for themselves who they want to be. That includes honorably serving this country.


From my experience, nobody really cared much about it one way or the other. We just didn't want one our fellow sailors to come around at night and start reaching through the curtains into our bunks (which actually happened by the way ).

Freedom doesn't mean molestation.

I also think prostitution should be legalized. That means you guys will eventually have to stop burying dead prosititutes in your backyard.

[usmc-sooner]

I sign my spek and wouldn't neg you for your opinion on this.

I agree with you that most in the military don't want open gayness in the ranks, and usually I hear the reason as esprit-de-corps which is hard to argue against.

I just think that many in the military have their heads in the sand about how much gayness abounds. I did a couple years in the Army, been to a few VFW halls, and see literally hundreds of veterans every day. Scads of 'em are (and were when they were in the military) gay. Don't take my word for it if it is uncomfortable, but please don't patronize me by making up statistics about how many gay men you know are in the USMC to back up your wishful thinking.

"Don't ask don't tell" has been criticized for a long time but it is an interesting compromise that allows gays to serve without lying, the military to maintain the status quo which isn't so bad, and passively acknowledges (without accepting) that gays have, do, and will serve in the armed forces.

I'd have to call Bull**** on you seeing hundreds of gay veterans a day. I've been stationed in California and I didn't see that many gays in civilian life. So don't patronize me.

BTW hanging out with a bunch of drunk VFWers is not your typical military crowd. Drunk gay VFWer's is just wrong.

[Harry Beanbag]

Well, no, to be perfectly pedantic about it, you didn't note that was the limit, simply that that was over the line. Which I agree with. Sexual battery, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is WAY out of line.


Okay, if you must be pedantic about it I guess I wasn't that clear, it was inferred though. :)

In your social function example, I can't really answer that in military terms because I just can't see it ever happening. Unless it's a social gathering of closeted homosexuals or something.

In real life though that wouldn't bother me in the least, it never has in the past. It's no big deal, live and let live, unless they try to get me in on a threesome or something, that ain't happening.

Don't confuse me with a homophobe just because you want to debate something, I'm the wrong target.

[Rogue]

I'd have to call Bull**** on you seeing hundreds of gay veterans a day. I've been stationed in California and I didn't see that many gays in civilian life. So don't patronize me.

BTW hanging out with a bunch of drunk VFWers is not your typical military crowd. Drunk gay VFWer's is just wrong.


Touche' man. I've been to California too, and I thought everybody I met there was gay. Then I figured out that they just dress that way. :D

I didn't mean to imply at all that I see hundreds of gay vets every day, just hundreds of vets. My bad. And no, most gay vets don't frequent the VFW. I was just being a smart-*** trying to impress you with my credentials as a dood who's seen lots of military folks and lots of vets and know many of them to be gay. Some openly, some not. Drive on.

[Frozen Sooner]

Okay, if you must be pedantic about it I guess I wasn't that clear, it was inferred though. :)

In your social function example, I can't really answer that in military terms because I just can't see it ever happening. Unless it's a social gathering of closeted homosexuals or something.

In real life though that wouldn't bother me in the least, it never has in the past. It's no big deal, live and let live, unless they try to get me in on a threesome or something, that ain't happening.

Don't confuse me with a homophobe just because you want to debate something, I'm the wrong target.

I don't think you're a homophobe. I was just posing a question to you to figure out where the line was. You've served. I haven't. Obviously, you have more insight into the average enlisted man's thought process than I do.

Generally when people say "I just don't want them to bother me with it" it's code for "I'm OK with people being gay so long as they keep every aspect of their sexual identity behind drawn blinds and bedroom doors, so no going to movies and holding hands because that's flaunting that ****, and no kissing each other in public either, 'cause that's gross." I apologize for somewhat lumping you into that crowd.

[usmc-sooner]

I think my passion is freedom, so that anyone can choose for themselves who they want to be. That includes honorably serving this country.


I don't know if you know this but the military is not and never has been a free democracy.

And guess what it's rocked along and happens to be the best in the world. It has provided you the civilian the oppurtunity to support gay rights and all other freedoms.

You want to talk about your passion for freedom pick up a rifle and follow me. Every time I put on the uniform, every time I deploy overseas, when I don't see my family for a year, I do it for you civilians whether you're gay or straight, liberal or conservative. So don't talk to me about passion for freedom.

[Rogue]

Hoo-Ahhh!

[OCUDad]

You want to talk about your passion for freedom pick up a rifle and follow me. Every time I put on the uniform, every time I deploy overseas, when I don't see my family for a year, I do it for you civilians whether you're gay or straight, liberal or conservative. So don't talk to me about passion for freedom.You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[Frozen Sooner]

BLANKET PARTIES FOR EVERYONE!!!!

[sooner_born_1960]

Other than which branch of the service some of you were in, what have I learned here?
1. Some newspaper printed a likely bogus email exchange depicting a recruiter going off the deep end.
2. Some percentage of the military is gay. Probably somewhere near the societal percentage.
3. The military has a Don't ask, Don't tell policy which seems to work fine.

Yet this thread feels like an argument, and I can't tell exactly what is being argued.

Someone help me out here.

[usmc-sooner]

You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

that is awesome. I love that part of the movie.

every now and then OCU you post something that is not "gay" :D

[usmc-sooner]

Other than which branch of the service some of you were in, what have I learned here?
1. Some newspaper printed a likely bogus email exchange depicting a recruiter going off the deep end.
2. Some percentage of the military is gay. Probably somewhere near the societal percentage.
3. The military has a Don't ask, Don't tell policy which seems to work fine.

Yet this thread feels like an argument, and I can't tell exactly what is being argued.

Someone help me out here.


no ****, when you know let me know.

[Rogue]

This reminds me of a thread on the old SO, "Were you in the military or were you in the Air Force?"

[Harry Beanbag]

This reminds me of a thread on the old SO, "Were you in the military or were you in the Air Force?"


I think you have to be gay to serve in the Air Force. ;)

[Chuck Bao]

I don't know if you know this but the military is not and never has been a free democracy.

And guess what it's rocked along and happens to be the best in the world. It has provided you the civilian the oppurtunity to support gay rights and all other freedoms.

You want to talk about your passion for freedom pick up a rifle and follow me. Every time I put on the uniform, every time I deploy overseas, when I don't see my family for a year, I do it for you civilians whether you're gay or straight, liberal or conservative. So don't talk to me about passion for freedom.

I will talk to you or anyone else in this world about my passion for freedom.

Don't you dare talk down to me like that, as if you and the military has the right to decide if we are free or not. That's written into OUR constitution.

I realize that the military isn't a democracy, but it still stands for the Amercian people.

I haven't carried a gun into the battle field, but I've been shot at by the Thai military and had to run for my life for simply attending a street protest against a military dictatorship. I attended the first protest against the 2006 coup, although it was illegal.

Are we to thank the US military for not staging a coup and taking away our freedoms? Of course not!

I do give thanks to our military men and women, gay or straight, for serving our country and putting their lives on the line. I've never made any post counter to that.

I think we do agree on a lot more issues than we disagree. For some reason our posts have unintentionally turned antagonistic. I admit my first several posts were a bit flippant. For that, I'm sorry if I offended you.

[sooner_born_1960]

I think you have to be gay to serve in the Air Force. ;)
Don't ask, Don't tell works that way too.

Air Force folks, please point your wrath Harry's way.

[Rogue]

Awww hell. Pretty soon we'll all be singing Kumbaya. A perfectly good opportunity to instigate, argue, and pot-stir squandered away by goodwill, decency, and politeness.:mad:

[usmc-sooner]

I haven't carried a gun into the battle field, but I've been shot at by the Thai military and had to run for my life for simply attending a street protest against a military dictatorship. I attended the first protest against the 2006 coup, although it was illegal.


The difference between the Thai Military and the USMC is if I shot at you, you wouldn't be posting about your passion for freedom on Soonerfans.

Ps the guy who missed probably had a limp wristed shooting action. Fags can't shoot straight. :D

[Chuck Bao]

The difference between the Thai Military and the USMC is if I shot at you, you wouldn't be posting about your passion for freedom on Soonerfans.

Ps the guy who missed probably had a limp wristed shooting action. Fags can't shoot straight. :D

Heh! Well thank god!

And, no I wouldn't want fags shooting on me. :D

[sooner_born_1960]

But if someone is going to shoot at you, you'd rather it was a fag, right?

[Chuck Bao]

But if someone is going to shoot at you, you'd rather it was a fag, right?

Have you ever fought a tranny? Those are the most ruthless, vicious, sadistic fighters there are!

[sooneron]

I would have to guess that the Marines would NOT be the first choice of a male homosexual.

[usmc-sooner]

I would have to guess that the Marines would NOT be the first choice of a male homosexual.

dude we are so like the hottest branch of the military, and seriously the uniforms are bitchin :D

[sooneron]

dude we are so like the hottest branch of the military, and seriously the uniforms are bitchin :D
YOu guys do look fab in the dress blues!

[sooner_born_1960]

Have you ever fought a tranny?
No, but if someone were to shoot at me, I'd prefer he had a limp wrist.

[usmc-sooner]

IMO, that conversation is as phony as a gay 3 dollar bill.
...foxhole ?? gmafb...the term went out in Korean War. The only time you hear it is in these silly arguments.
FWIW, I think the military should accept folks who say they are gay. The open flamers will get weeded out just like the bed wetters, pig-dog-men, mama's boys and nymphos. The calmest guy in combat I ever knew (I found out later) liked dudes..................(shut up howzit!)

if you're a dude who day dreams about being sodomized or sodomizing another dude, I'd guess you'd probably be pretty relaxed in just about any situation. :D

hell give em all guns

[soonerscuba]

I think that you guys are looking at this all wrong. We should actively recruit gay guys into the military, and then put them all in one division, and make it the most highly trained, well funded in all of the world. Think about this for just one second, the Big Pink 69 marches on Tehran, gay guys work out like it's their job, build them on Army chow and let them wear those Prada sunglasses, unleash them on a fundamentalist group of jihadists, their last image on this earth will be of an opulent, freedom loving man that is the very opposite of which they stand. He pulls out a pearl-handled .45 from his Coach holster and sends Mohammed A. Jihad on his way to the gates of hell.

[sooner_born_1960]

.45? with a limp wrist? Get real. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

when was the term foxhole removed from military vernacular? sure as hell not while i was in......of course we didnt use it in its intended form, but it was sure used in slang terms........and often

[usmc-sooner]

when was the term foxhole removed from military vernacular? sure as hell not while i was in......of course we didnt use it in its intended form, but it was sure used in slang terms........and often

I was thinking the same thing, I know I dug a few, I know those infantry boys still dig em up.

Let me say this e-tools suck (little folding shovels) for you non Marine types.

[OCUDad]

that is awesome. I love that part of the movie.

every now and then OCU you post something that is not "gay" :DEnjoy your Code Red, Mr. Macho. :D

[SCOUT]

I want to hear the story behind Chuck Bao knowing how difficult it is to fight a tranny!

[SoonerGirl06]

I don't know if you know this but the military is not and never has been a free democracy.

And guess what it's rocked along and happens to be the best in the world. It has provided you the civilian the oppurtunity to support gay rights and all other freedoms.

You want to talk about your passion for freedom pick up a rifle and follow me. Every time I put on the uniform, every time I deploy overseas, when I don't see my family for a year, I do it for you civilians whether you're gay or straight, liberal or conservative. So don't talk to me about passion for freedom.

OUTSTANDING!

[SoonerGirl06]

You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

That was the best scene of that whole entire movie.

[Widescreen]

I think that you guys are looking at this all wrong. We should actively recruit gay guys into the military, and then put them all in one division
When you started that post, I was reminded of the South Park movie. :D

[jk the sooner fan]

yeah toothbrush isnt in the manual either, didnt you watch the movie?

i know fighting position is the correct term

but i heard foxhole on a regular basis during my 21 years....it hasnt left the military verbage

[SoonerTerry]

Load of crap


The e-mail exchange, that is

[usmc-sooner]

Infantry soldiers don't dig foxholes; they dig "fighting positions" ...one man or two man... fighting positions.
I trained infantrymen for 22 years; never used nor heard the word foxhole.
Somebody show me an Army or Marine infantry soldiers' manual with the term 'foxhole' in it.
Olevet...hep me out here. Oh, wait, he can't 'cause he was recon...always on the move. ;)

To be honest I've heard em called fighting positions, foxholes, gopher holes, home, houses, etc. Also you won't find the word fuc* in any manuel but I've heard it plenty

well technically as a Marine I never walked through a freaking door, it was a hatch .... ask any Marine ...a hatch, nor did I look through a window, it was a porthole, ask Kabookie it was a porthole. I also never went right or left it was always port or starboard. Show me one Marine manuel with the term door, window or left and right. Yet somehow I understand the basic jist of what people are talking about.


That or I don't feel the need to carry on technically correct on military lingo here on Soonerfans.


You're holding on too tight Cougar I mean jaux, you've lost your edge we'll be sending Maverick to Top Gun :D

[jk the sooner fan]

look at it this way

if you're a female recruiter and you're engaging in conversation with a civilian male who happens to be gay

and you want to illiterate the whole close confines of space during combat

are you going to use foxhole? or fighting position?

i'm thinking foxhole.....

[Hatfield]

does anyone think that denying more qualified individuals jobs in the military such as translators, logistics etc. due to their sexual orientation, that we put more of our men and women in harm's way? and if so is that acceptable to you?

[1stTimeCaller]

they can be gay. They just can't be open about it. They can work for the GSA or a civilian contractor if they want to be gay and open.

[Hatfield]

that isn't really responsive to my question.

[frankensooner]

I don't understand the problem with gays. They make good neighbors and friends, I know that much. I don't see what would make them unfit for service, other than making some fellow soldiers uncomfortable.

I never met an African-American until I was in 6th grade. I was uneasy around him at first, but guess what, we became best friends. You shouldn't discount folks because they are different, they might just end up being your best friend, or in the case of the military, might save you life.

Hey, and Lawrence of Arabia was a poofster! ;)

[OklahomaRed]

I call B.S. This exchange is staged and set up to attempt to make Andrew look morally right, and the recruiter to look uncivilized. The issue is that the debate is not as cut and dry and the inventors of this exchange would like you to think. All gays are not without motives of their own, and all military personnel are not blameless either. That's the entire issue behind "don't ask, don't tell." You begin asking and telling in relationship to military services, and then you've pushed the issue to something bigger than it is.

[Hatfield]

i really just don't understand why the recruiter felt the need to type in all caps.

i mean really...who does that? ;)

[Chuck Bao]

Some of you have called BS on the story.

If this is a fake exchange, I will most certainly apologize to everyone on this board.

I think it is the responsibility of the poster to make sure fake stuff isn’t posted and I have been naïvely guilty of this sort of thing in past.

Okay, I clinked on the link I provided before posting it. It seemed legit, but who knows these days. Other news stories at that website seemed okay. I didn’t check Snopes because Snopes typically takes time before they can investigate these types of stories and the date on the webpage link was Monday, March 26.

I didn’t post it because of some ulterior motive besides the comic value of the exchange. Honestly, I hope it’s fake and I can apologize. Okay, the Tango Wango part still kills me.

[sooner_born_1960]

Not to worry, Chuck. It looks like it's turned into a debate on the merits of the Don't ask, Don't tell policy, which makes the validity of the article moot. Or mute.

[1stTimeCaller]

that isn't really responsive to my question.

YES IT WAS!

;)

The onus isn't 100% on the military. I was also trying to point out that an interpreter or analyst doesn't have to be in the military. To my knowledge the GSA, DoD civilians and the like don't have the same homosexual rules the military has. Easy example is Dean and the USPS. ;)

If these people want to serve in a uniform they have to become uniform and at least act 'not gay'.

I would say that 'not acting gay' is a qualification for all service men and women. In the same way a legal assistant has to do as many pushups, situps, and run 2 miles as fast as an infantryman of the same age.

[Chuck Bao]

What does act "not gay" even mean? Do you mean wimps or nerds or people with a light wrist or people with a lisp or metrosexuals that are unusually tidy?

[Hatfield]

Not to worry, Chuck. It looks like it's turned into a debate on the merits of the Don't ask, Don't tell policy, which makes the validity of the article moot. Or mute.


i believe the correct way to say that phrase, is that the point is mooooo....

[jk the sooner fan]

What does act "not gay" even mean? Do you mean wimps or nerds or people with a light wrist or people with a lisp or metrosexuals that are unusually tidy?

oh c'mon, you're smarter than that

it means stay in the closet

[FroggyStyle22]

Guys, Why isn't this on the recruiting board?;)

[BigRedJed]

Good call. I should move it there just to **** with Rhino.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

... Think about this for just one second, the Big Pink 69 marches on Tehran, gay guys work out like it's their job, build them on Army chow and let them wear those Prada sunglasses, unleash them on a fundamentalist group of jihadists, their last image on this earth will be of an opulent, freedom loving man that is the very opposite of which they stand. He pulls out a pearl-handled .45 from his Coach holster and sends Mohammed A. Jihad on his way to the gates of hell.


Just a historical oddity. There really was a 69th Infantry Division. They were the first to meet up with the Russians at the Elba River. They also liberated the POW camp at Colditz Castle. Thats the one where the guys built a glider to attempt an escape. I don't think they were the "Big Pink" thought :)

[imjebus]

I don't want any gay people around me when I'm killing people, thats just disgusting. :rolleyes:

[Harry Beanbag]

Just a historical oddity. There really was a 69th Infantry Division. They were the first to meet up with the Russians at the Elba River. They also liberated the POW camp at Colditz Castle. Thats the one where the guys built a glider to attempt an escape. I don't think they were the "Big Pink" thought :)


I believe they were simply called the Fightin' 69th. Here's what their shoulder patch looked like...

http://www.state.sd.us/military/vetaffairs/sdwwiimemorial/subpages/testimonies/images/bartling/Bartli86.png

[Harry Beanbag]

does anyone think that denying more qualified individuals jobs in the military such as translators, logistics etc. due to their sexual orientation, that we put more of our men and women in harm's way? and if so is that acceptable to you?


Are you saying gays aren't qualified to carry a rifle and kill people? Are they only good for desk jobs?

[Harry Beanbag]

I think you have to be gay to serve in the Air Force. ;)


For those of you out there that took offense to this post, please be advised that it was only a joke, geez.

[Frozen Sooner]

For those of you out there that took offense to this post, please be advised that it was only a joke, geez.

Plus, you were in the Navy. Jeez, buggery is practically a respected tradition there. ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Plus, you were in the Navy. Jeez, buggery is practically a respected tradition there. ;)


Yeah, I've heard those jokes. :) Come to think of it, our uniforms were kinda gay. :O


http://www.christmasspiritshop.com/itemimages/NCCO-BSL-M-2.jpg

[Rogue]

Speaking of gay uniforms, I wish the Army would finally update the dress uniform. I've heard it for years that they will. The Army "dress blues" or whatever they are called are cool (the ones ya hafta buy, not the issued version), but still no comparison with the USMC dress blues.

And I'm still not used to everyone in the Army wearing Berets. It reminds me of a NATO force or some backwards 3rd world funny-marching unit from the 1980s or something.


edit: I "wish" not "with". Wrong thread to type in a lisp. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

the army has approved the uniform change, it just has to be implemented