Ethical Dilemma

[VeeJay]

My time at my current employer is nearing its end. I was hired by and report to a man cut from the cloth of Hitler. This guy will cut people down - even people at his own level in the organization - and will do what ever nasty underhanded deed is necessary to protect his turf and autonomy. He's also a part owner (although a very small part - less than 1%) of the company.

I've been on the receiving end of his eruptions and tirades, as most has everyone else. A string of very talented people have left our organization recently because of this character.

Yesterday, I accepted a lunch invite from a relatively new VP who's tangled with Hitler several times during these turf battles. From the onset, I connected with this new VP and we have a terrific working relationship. Only, I report to the Hitler VP. The new guy asked me to document some things against my VP and forward to him before I'm gone - especially anything which may be regarding ethics or integrity issues. He promised me complete confidentiality, and I have no reason to doubt his sincerity. There's little that can come back to me at this point as far as reprisals on my job any way. I believe my co. is building a solid case to get rid of Hitler, and I wouldn't be surprised if my smoking gun (which Hitler told me to file away) will do the trick. What I have in my possession - and with instructions in Hitler's handwriting - represents outright fraud against a supplier.

Should I feel bad about turning over this documentation? I was planning on making a quiet, uneventful exit, and still will do so, but I will be providing my co. a convincing case to make a change that will have ripple effects - nearly all positive - in my biz locally.

Thoughts? Is there anything legal that could come back to haunt me if they fire or buy out Hitler?

[Scott D]

Based on the confidentiality you've been promised....no.

I worked for an employer whom fired an individual because said individual pocketed a signed credit card receipt from a sports celebrity. Individual was turned in to their supervisor by an 'underling' and the 'underling' was kept confidential. Including the following time period where said fired individual attempted to sue the employing company for wrongful termination.

In the end it will come down to what the new VP/CEO/Board of Directors say in regards to the matter, and how they acquired this document. It's quite possible they may end up as a precaution drafting a legal order for you to 'surrender' the 'smoking gun' document.

[Fraggle145]

Do it. Down with the MAN!!

Damn that was my 1001th post... well bully for me!

[Sooner24]

Wasn't this a Seinfeld episode?

[OSUAggie]

The only ethical dilemma should be a personal one regarding your relationship with Adolphus. You clearly stated he's a dirty SOB that will more than bend the rules and is apparently is a difficult person to do bidness with. However, was he always loyal to you? Did he always treat you fairly (other than being on the receiving ends of his tirades)? If so, I would return the loyalty... If not, I'd turn his *** in.

[OUHOMER]

At my company you would be in more for hiding it. The compnay has a right to protect its interst. If somebody does something that is criminal, or dishonest, the comany has a right to know about it. It must protect its self and its empolyees

[Scott D]

The only ethical dilemma should be a personal one regarding your relationship with Adolphus. You clearly stated he's a dirty SOB that will more than bend the rules and is apparently is a difficult person to do bidness with. However, was he always loyal to you? Did he always treat you fairly (other than being on the receiving ends of his tirades)? If so, I would return the loyalty... If not, I'd turn his *** in.

(meanwhile over at the vet's office) "Ok Lambchop, show us on the doll where OSUAggie touched you". ;)

[OSUAggie]

(meanwhile over at the vet's office) "Ok Lambchop, show us on the doll where OSUAggie touched you". ;)

A lot of you ****ers spend more time in a farm/ranch/country/hick situation in a day than I've spent in my entire life, yet I play with farm animals because my school has an ag and vet program. :rolleyes:

[Scott D]

A lot of you ****ers spend more time in a farm/ranch/country/hick situation in a day than I've spent in my entire life, yet I play with farm animals because my school has an ag and vet program. :rolleyes:

lemme check.....

nope no farms/ranch/country/hick situations in Detroit.

Thanks for playing :D

[Vaevictis]

The question you need to ask yourself is: If you were to provide the documentation, would it be because you dislike the guy, or because you believe the company would be better off without him?

The first is a bad, possibly unethical reason. The second results in a perfectly ethical action.

Personally, based on your description, I'd nail the guy to a cross and smile into his face as I did it. And I wouldn't feel even the slightest twinge of guilt. A guy who creates an environment like he must be creating deserves every bit of grief he gets.

[JohnnyMack]

A lot of you ****ers spend more time in a farm/ranch/country/hick situation in a day than I've spent in my entire life, yet I play with farm animals because my school has an ag and vet program. :rolleyes:

Yeah. Pretty much.

[rufnek05]

sounds to me that if the dude was a dick to you, **** him over. but i'm a big proponent of carma

[Sooner24]

sounds to me that if the dude was a dick to you, **** him over. but i'm a big proponent of carma


I'm a big proponent of caramel.

http://www.hometownfavorites.com/images/items/Large/hfca513.jpg

[Widescreen]

Yesterday, I accepted a lunch invite from a relatively new VP who's tangled with Hitler several times during these turf battles.
I think he's hitting on you. Is he HAWT?

Actually, I think you have an obligation to turn over the info you have. It doesn't matter whether he's been fair with you or not. If he's done this once, chances are very good that he's done it many times and the company needs to know about it.

[yermom]

what are you apprehensive about again?

*******?

check.

him doing something illegal/unethical?

check.

you aren't going to work there to have to deal with him personally?

check.

although the last one might be a downside ;)

[Pricetag]

The reason unprofessional jerkwads like this are allowed to even exist in the workplace is because people are hesitant to actually say/do something about them. You have the opportunity here. Take it.

[BajaOklahoma]

The question comes to mind - why didn't you bring this document forward before? What risk to you is there in bringing it forward?

[Frozen Sooner]

Let me get this straight:

You have proof that this ******* has been overcharging suppliers?

Turn it in. Holding on to it is unethical. Regardless of whether the company has promised you confidentiality or not, you should turn it in. Most company ethics policies will have whistleblower clauses anyhow.

Concealing proof that a supplier was overcharged is not only unethical, in certain cases it can be illegal.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I'd also start a nasty rumor that he was a homophobic military recruiter in a past life.

[Chuck Bao]

In my industry, everyone is an a-hole with somewhat diminished ethics, including me (if I ever get the chance!). In my opinion, the degree of any director's / employee's a-holeness is directly related his/her role in the company and the board of directors' latest biggest fear. In cases I've observed, the offending employee has done some terribly unethical things and still the company is willing to pay fines to the Securities and Exchange Commission because that employee brings in business.

I think you should report any malpractice within your company. But still, you have to be aware that in some cases the board of directors will not necessarily do the right thing.

With that being said, good luck to you and I hope your work environment never again forces you to choose.

[sooner_born_1960]

Your scenario sounds like one of the questions on the Project Management Institutes's PMP test. The correct answer (for test purposes) is always do the right thing, and never let unethical or illegal activity go unreported.

[Mixer!]

A lot of you ****ers spend more time in a farm/ranch/country/hick situation in a day than I've spent in my entire life, yet I play with farm animals because my school has an ag and vet program. :rolleyes:
Located on/near the Boone State campus:

vet med facility? check
chicken coops? check
horse barns? check
cow barns? check
sheep barns? check
hog barns? check
goat barns? check

:pop: :pop: :pop:

[MamaMia]

VeeJay, if I were in this situation I would first get a letter of recommendation from the best person available in this company, just to have handy for any future career moves. Then I would turn him in by handing over the evidence, but not before I let him know I was doing so, and I'd tell him why, right to his face.

And why did you sit on this all this time? :confused:

[Rogue]

It's obvious why you sit on this kind of information. It's a trump-card.

Good luck with your decision, the advice on here is mostly good.

[MamaMia]

It's obvious why you sit on this kind of information. It's a trump-card.

Good luck with your decision, the advice on here is mostly good.Not necessarily. I was wondering if coming forth with the information might have made it a very uncomfortable workplace atmosphere afterward.

[Rogue]

I hadn't thought of that obvious connection Mama Mia. Retaliation or even just awkwardness. But the reason for hanging onto this information seems more like a "just in case" thing.

[soonerboomer93]

I play with farm animals

remember, the first step is always admitting...

[soonerboomer93]

oh, and keep a copy of the documentation in a safe place

because well, cyoa is always best

[sooner_born_1960]

You should post a copy of the documentation here. Unless that would be unethical.

[Rogue]

You should post a copy of the documentation here. Unless that would be unethical.

This thread is worthless without pics?

[12]

If you are leaving anyway, take the high road and forget about das Arschloch. He'll exterminate himself before long any way.

The last job I quit, I SOOOO wanted to give a major F.U. speech on the way out. As it happened, I took the high road and thanked them for the opportunity they had afforded and it has never been a regrettable decision.

Just laugh it off. Or at least smile and shake hands, or Heil-five him or something.

[usmc-sooner]

A lot of you ****ers spend more time in a farm/ranch/country/hick situation in a day than I've spent in my entire life, yet I play with farm animals because my school has an ag and vet program. :rolleyes:

my school has a medical school for humans.

[VeeJay]

I just got back from a drinking event in my honor where about 30 industry colleagues - people on "both sides" of the desk showed up to congratulate me and wish good luck- I've spent 14 years here and it is difficult to walk away from the relationships that have formed.

I am leaving Florida on Friday for North Carolina, and I'll never see most of these folks again.

That having been said, I appreciate the comments and advice here, and I think in my buzzed state that I agree with most of you Deep Hillbilly Thinkers on how I should handle. I am moving forward and letting the chips fall where they may.

The reason I have sat on this information is because this Hitler guy is firmly entrenched. For me to have presented this information before now would have placed me in jeopardy of losing my job, were he to survive the investigation and / or reprimand. I do not work for a government entity where whistleblowers are encouraged to come forward. I work for a privately owned company, where you may be here today and gone tomorrow, and in a right-to-work state. My political acumen skills are pretty good, I think. So I am cautious but at this point - probably less so.

Nor did I keep this information for a trump card. Well, maybe I did, but more as a CYA than anything else. When I got grilled from the other VP on specific questions, I could have remained tight-lipped and said everything was rosy in my office. He knew better. So in my respect and regard for him I was honest and forthcoming.

He specifically asked me if there were ethics or integrity issues with Hitler. That was the opening which I hadn't planned for.

I've also confided in a female co-worker regarding comments made by this bastard that are sexist. For instance, my co-worker informed Der Fuehrer that she had jury duty a few weeks ago and the response was "So you tell them that you got raped and you can't come for jury duty."

All this - and more - will be in my notes to the VP that I had lunch with. If it will make the environment more productive to my many friends I am leaving, I will feel a sense of accomplishment. If it all falls on deaf ears, then, well, I reckon I've burned a bridge or two.

BTW, there were many females at my little event. These South Florida women are really affectionate. :O

[proud gonzo]

...why would it be an ethical dilemma to turn in somebody who's doing something wrong? :confused:

[StoopTroup]

Ya know VeeJay....

PG makes a very good point.

It's not up to you to do anything about Adolfo. If he's stupid enough to not keep his tracks covered and he's done something wrong...let the chips fall where they may. Ease your conscience.

Who knows...maybe Hitler and the VP were in on it and were testing your loyalty. You never know what's ahead as you move on down the road. The folks you will be working for may be aquaintences and you were being double-checked.

If you err on the side of right...you have nothing to fear IMO.

[goingoneight]

:les: kill him.

[Scott D]

leaving Florida on friday...whatever are you going to do without having letter writing neighbor around?

[VeeJay]

leaving Florida on friday...whatever are you going to do without having letter writing neighbor around?

Heh. Lady Asshat. Richness!

Oh, the payback hasn't started with that yet. She will begin soon receiving chain letters via snail mail from various godforsaken outposts dotting our fruited plain.

Some of these chain letters were originally authored by yours truly before they circled the world three times and were delivered via slave trading ship to Cyclops in the early 18th century.

[Rogue]

Where ya movin' to in NC? I guess I should ask how close/far will you be to Asheville. I'm within an hour.

So, the thing that isn't clear to me yet is why you saved the information instead of just tossing it out with the trash in the first place. See, I figure you hung on to it for some good reason unless you're just one of those pack-rat types that hangs on to everything.

One thing I've learned, and I'm not saying VeeJay did this at all, is that in most large offices/companies someone is keeping records on their coworkers or boss. Sometimes it's obvious, other times it's the person you'd least suspect that is either paranoid, keeping "just in case" records, or harboring a longstanding grudge. I've had to do several "administrative investigations" and it's amazing how many people keep copious notes about seemingly insignificant things. I guess it's smart to document the weird stuff, but who has time to record every-damn-thing?

[VeeJay]

The Hitler VP gave me the documents and told me to keep them in my file.

I'm not sure why I should be held to a separate standard regarding an ethical lapse such as this. My co. would certainly place documentation of a similar instance in my personnel file, were such an instance to occur.

Again, I'm not out to ruin anyone. I was asked to provide information of this nature. Why should I hold back to protect this guy?