we bought our house from a couple of ****ing liars....

[OUAndy1807]

so, the gentlemen we bought our house from have lied about the following:
1) the leaky patio that we got the money back for: "we've never seen it leak before, it must just be when it snows". it leaks (not bad, mind you) every time it rains
2) they didn't disclose that there is a low spot in the sewer system that has to be snaked out every 6 months or so. we have a basement with sewage backing up into it. roto-rooter says they've been here before and that it's not uncommon to have to come back every 6 months.
3) they didn't disclose that they had had previous foundation work done. I just happened to have American Leveling out and they told me that in 2000 they installed 5 piers. I'm glad they did, because now I don't have to, but why wouldn't they tell us?
4) the garage is built on an easement and we didn't find out until we got the survey the day of closing. not a big deal, we're taking it down anyway, it just ****es me off.

this is all in the first 6 weeks. if we find any other big ticket items we may be going after these guys.

[1stTimeCaller]

nail their asses to the wall

[KC//CRIMSON]

so, the gentlemen we bought our house from have lied about the following:
1) the leaky patio that we got the money back for: "we've never seen it leak before, it must just be when it snows". it leaks (not bad, mind you) every time it rains
2) they didn't disclose that there is a low spot in the sewer system that has to be snaked out every 6 months or so. we have a basement with sewage backing up into it. roto-rooter says they've been here before and that it's not uncommon to have to come back every 6 months.
3) they didn't disclose that they had had previous foundation work done. I just happened to have American Leveling out and they told me that in 2000 they installed 5 piers. I'm glad they did, because now I don't have to, but why wouldn't they tell us?
4) the garage is built on an easement and we didn't find out until we got the survey the day of closing. not a big deal, we're taking it down anyway, it just ****es me off.

this is all in the first 6 weeks. if we find any other big ticket items we may be going after these guys.


Surprised your home inspector didn't know/find out about the foundation. Everything else you probably won't be able to do much about.

[1stTimeCaller]

you can sue their asses and make them pay for every time the sewer has to be roto-rootered at a minimum.

There is a reason they fill out a disclosure form.

[OUAndy1807]

the home inspector told us that we needed piers, but didn't say anything about the previous piers.

the sewer problems they obviously knew about. I'm going to call around to the big line clearing contractors tomorrow and see if any of them have a record on the property. If they do, the previous owners should have told us about it on the disclosures and they did not.

also, the seller purchased a home warranty that covers line blockages and stuff (I didn't call them because **** in the basement is kind of an emergency and I didn't want to wait for them to process our claim and get their contractor out here). You'd better believe that I will be 1) saving all associated receipts and 2) getting my plumber friends to check out the system and tell me if something is wrong with it.

I think one of the guys that we bought the house from is a lawyer.

[Jimminy Crimson]

I think one of the guys that we bought the house from is a lawyer.

It was two guys you bought the house from? Ew! :twinkies:

[usmc-sooner]

sorry to hear about it Andy

[1stTimeCaller]

It was two guys you bought the house from? Ew! :twinkies:

think about what has been done on those countertops in the kitchen :eek:

[OUinFLA]

Did they disclose that the lawn will probably grow in the summer and you might have to mow it every so often?

[Jimminy Crimson]

Did they disclose that the lawn will probably grow in the summer and you might have to mow it every so often?

Especially after a rain. :eek:

[OUAndy1807]

Did they disclose that the lawn will probably grow in the summer and you might have to mow it every so often?
so I guess I should expect to have the plumbing system in a house require the same amount of maintenance as a lawn? or are you saying that I should expect them to lie about 4 major things on the disclosure forms just as I would expect grass to grow in the summer?

[Scott D]

big deal you overpaid for a fixer upper, quit whining. Welcome to the world of pre-owned homes.

[VeeJay]

The "Christian" scmhuck that sold us our house in '99 pointed out a hairline crack on the patio, and said it was just in the finish, and not a flaw in the foundation.

Six years later we drop $8000 in having a 40' section of patio replaced as that hairline crack morphed into a complete separation of the concrete.

He wouldn't have repaired it, and we wanted the house any way.

[OUAndy1807]

big deal you overpaid for a fixer upper, quit whining. Welcome to the world of pre-owned homes.
1) we didn't overpay, it just ****es me off that they lied about it.
2) I think the title of the thread gives a pretty good indication of the threads contents. If you didn't want to read me whining, you probably shouldn't have opened the thread, let alone taken the time to respond to it, which will now make it show up in your usercp everytime someone responds
3) so ****ty business practices are a part of the pre-owned home world? should I just have expected to be lied to?

[OUinFLA]

yes

[soonerboomer93]

1) we didn't overpay, it just ****es me off that they lied about it.
2) I think the title of the thread gives a pretty good indication of the threads contents. If you didn't want to read me whining, you probably shouldn't have opened the thread, let alone taken the time to respond to it, which will now make it show up in your usercp everytime someone responds
3) so ****ty business practices are a part of the pre-owned home world? should I just have expected to be lied to?

You're a contracter, aren't you?

Is making sure ****ty stuff isn't occuring part of the job. Heck, I work QC and I know I have to watch for ****ty stuff all the time.

[OUAndy1807]

You're a contracter, aren't you?

Is making sure ****ty stuff isn't occuring part of the job. Heck, I work QC and I know I have to watch for ****ty stuff all the time.
it's hard to make sure an underslab sewerline isn't screwed up when you're not there to see it installed. especially if the house isn't occupied when you have your inspection done and the line is dry.

[LilSooner]

Dude you bought an freaking old house what did you expect? That house was built in the 30's right? Geeze its like your freaking out about it getting dark at night. Yeah it sucks that they didn't disclose some stuff, but really you got a sweet, old house. ****'s gonna break.

[MamaMia]

Lying is so gay. I think you need to call a priest and an Indian medicine man to bless and cleanse the house with incense and sage before anything else goes south. ;)

[OUAndy1807]

Dude you bought an freaking old house what did you expect? That house was built in the 30's right? Geeze its like your freaking out about it getting dark at night. Yeah it sucks that they didn't disclose some stuff, but really you got a sweet, old house. ****'s gonna break.
Dude, you ran an ad in the classified trying to sell a premanufactured home. What kind of calls did you expect to get?

[sanantoniosooner]

I don't know whether to give Andy sympathy or continue the titty twister everyone else is applying. :D

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I think the guy who sold you the house is trying to buy my brother's house.

My brother has a storage shed in the backyard. It's not on a slab or anything. Well, Mr. Homebuyer calls the city to find out if my brother has paid the permit on it. As it turns out, you are supposed to pay the city $60 to have a storage shed and they aren't going to be able to close until someone pays the $60. Homebuyer wants my brother to pay it. That's just the icing on the cake. Everything passed the VA inspection with flying colors, but the homebuyer wants little tick tacky things done first.

Never mind that he's leaving a bunch of good tools and a workbench and lawn equipment.

[Oldnslo]

So do you want to sue for the lack of disclosures or not?

[ChickSoonerFan]

That sucks but is very common. How long did they own the house? If they did not have the foundation corrected themselves, they may not have known about them.

Sorry about your experience so far, hopefully it will get better.

And you should always call the home warranty company though, they usually respond very quickly to have someone come out. And that way if the problem is bigger than expected, it is all covered under warranty.

GOOD LUCK!!

[C&CDean]

Why would anybody buy an old home from a couple of fags?

[BigRedJed]

Exactly. I bought mine from a couple of lesbians. Worked out much better.

[StoopTroup]

Why would anybody buy an old home from a couple of fags?
At least the inside decor is FABULOUS ! :pop:

:pop:

[C&CDean]

Exactly. I bought mine from a couple of lesbians. Worked out much better.

How'd you get the fish smell out?

[BigRedJed]

Didn't bother. I like fish.

[C&CDean]

You nasty, you nasty, you momma say you nasty...

[landrun]

The "Christian" scmhuck that sold us our house in '99 pointed out a hairline crack on the patio, and said it was just in the finish, and not a flaw in the foundation.

Six years later we drop $8000 in having a 40' section of patio replaced as that hairline crack morphed into a complete separation of the concrete.

He wouldn't have repaired it, and we wanted the house any way.

A crack?
The schmuck probably didn't know jack about 'foundations'. I know I don't. He's probably completely innocent.
And you're complaining about a crack?

I'm about to sell a home in the next year or so and I'm hoping I don't run into buyers like this.

When you buy a home, you buy the future problems that come with it. You're not guaranteed a roof that never leaks, carpet that never gets old, paint that doesn't peel and ... no cracks.

I'm not trying to be a butt. I just spent $6000 repairing my living room floor and bathroom because of a slow leak I didn't know about that ruined the floors. But when you own the house, you own the problems.

Wanting to sue over this stuff is indeed frivolous and I think unethical on the new owner's part.

[landrun]

I think the guy who sold you the house is trying to buy my brother's house.

My brother has a storage shed in the backyard. It's not on a slab or anything. Well, Mr. Homebuyer calls the city to find out if my brother has paid the permit on it. As it turns out, you are supposed to pay the city $60 to have a storage shed and they aren't going to be able to close until someone pays the $60. Homebuyer wants my brother to pay it. That's just the icing on the cake. Everything passed the VA inspection with flying colors, but the homebuyer wants little tick tacky things done first.

Never mind that he's leaving a bunch of good tools and a workbench and lawn equipment.

That's exactly the kind of guy who will try to sue you later. I'd tell him I'm not interested in doing business with him and wait to sell it to someone more reasonable.

[Oldnslo]

A crack?
The schmuck probably didn't know jack about 'foundations'. I know I don't. He's probably completely innocent.
And you're complaining about a crack?

I'm about to sell a home in the next year or so and I'm hoping I don't run into buyers like this.

When you buy a home, you buy the future problems that come with it. You're not guaranteed a roof that never leaks, carpet that never gets old, paint that doesn't peel and ... no cracks.

I'm not trying to be a butt. I just spent $6000 repairing my living room floor and bathroom because of a slow leak I didn't know about that ruined the floors. But when you own the house, you own the problems.

Wanting to sue over this stuff is indeed frivolous and I think unethical on the new owner's part.


2) they didn't disclose that there is a low spot in the sewer system that has to be snaked out every 6 months or so. we have a basement with sewage backing up into it. roto-rooter says they've been here before and that it's not uncommon to have to come back every 6 months.
3) they didn't disclose that they had had previous foundation work done. I just happened to have American Leveling out and they told me that in 2000 they installed 5 piers. I'm glad they did, because now I don't have to, but why wouldn't they tell us?

They didn't disclose known defects. That's exactly what is against the law. This isn't a case of innocent and ignorant sellers. The buyer has 2 smoking guns regarding lack of disclosure and the seller's actual knowledge of the defect (the Plaintiff in a disclosure action such as this must show exactly that, that the seller had actual knowledge of the defect and failed to disclose it).

That one of the sellers is a lawyer just means that a jury will hate him.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

That's exactly the kind of guy who will try to sue you later. I'd tell him I'm not interested in doing business with him and wait to sell it to someone more reasonable.Yeah that's what he was thinking.

[Hamhock]

They didn't disclose known defects. That's exactly what is against the law. This isn't a case of innocent and ignorant sellers. The buyer has 2 smoking guns regarding lack of disclosure and the seller's actual knowledge of the defect (the Plaintiff in a disclosure action such as this must show exactly that, that the seller had actual knowledge of the defect and failed to disclose it).

That one of the sellers is a lawyer just means that a jury will hate him.


i think some foam just fell from your mouth onto the keyboard


;)

[Oldnslo]

i think some foam just fell from your mouth onto the keyboard


;)
Awww, disclosure cases aren't so great. Attorney fees are recoverable, but the cases are a swearing match... unless you have a smoking gun.

I just got miffed about this statement:
Wanting to sue over this stuff is indeed frivolous and I think unethical on the new owner's part.

ain't nothing frivilous or unethical about standing up for yourself when you get keisterized by a lying bastard.

[OUAndy1807]

I'm not trying to be a butt. I just spent $6000 repairing my living room floor and bathroom because of a slow leak I didn't know about that ruined the floors. But when you own the house, you own the problems.

Wanting to sue over this stuff is indeed frivolous and I think unethical on the new owner's part.
we're not talking about maintenance or normal wear and tear associated with living in a house. we're talking about latent defects to the structure and mechanical systems of a property that was sold less than 6 weeks ago and a previous owner who obviously knew about the problems and not only didn't disclose them, signed documents stating that the systems were in good working condition.

[Sooner_Bob]

Ain't buying a home fun . . . .

[sooner_born_1960]

I think the guy who sold you the house is trying to buy my brother's house.

My brother has a storage shed in the backyard. It's not on a slab or anything. Well, Mr. Homebuyer calls the city to find out if my brother has paid the permit on it. As it turns out, you are supposed to pay the city $60 to have a storage shed and they aren't going to be able to close until someone pays the $60. Homebuyer wants my brother to pay it. That's just the icing on the cake. Everything passed the VA inspection with flying colors, but the homebuyer wants little tick tacky things done first.

Never mind that he's leaving a bunch of good tools and a workbench and lawn equipment.
I'd find out if the city requires a permit for a pile of sticks in the back yard.
And what city is this? I sure didn't buy a permit before I built my "portable" shed.

[Scott D]

1) we didn't overpay, it just ****es me off that they lied about it.
2) I think the title of the thread gives a pretty good indication of the threads contents. If you didn't want to read me whining, you probably shouldn't have opened the thread, let alone taken the time to respond to it, which will now make it show up in your usercp everytime someone responds
3) so ****ty business practices are a part of the pre-owned home world? should I just have expected to be lied to?

1)if you feel they lied about the condition of the home, then yes you can consider yourself to have overpaid on it. Because clearly if they were eager to sell, then you could have placed demands upon repairs regarding the areas you considered to be lied to about.
2)that pretty much sums up 99% of the threads you start, but I still find humor in all of them.
3)most home owners aren't business owners. They tend to be people who wish to or need to sell because they either want to or need to move. If you want to avoid the hassles that come with buying a home that is in place with previous owners, then you buy a lot and pay to have a home built on that lot. Although to be fair, you can end up with a ****ty home because of unscrupulous contractors, or so I hear.

[Hamhock]

how come nobody likes OUAndy?

sounds to me like he got screwed. like he said, this ain't about the carpet wearing for wallpaper peeling. the people lied by omission when the filled out the disclosure. this is exactly why the disclosure exists.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I'd find out if the city requires a permit for a pile of sticks in the back yard.
And what city is this? I sure didn't buy a permit before I built my "portable" shed.It's OKC. Evidently it's one of those uninforced requirements. They don't send people around to check on it. My brother said he'd haul the ****er to the dump before he paid the $60 permit fee.

[TexasLidig8r]

i think some foam just fell from your fangs onto the keyboard


;)

Get it right Rookie!

[LilSooner]

Dude, you ran an ad in the classified trying to sell a premanufactured home. What kind of calls did you expect to get?


Actually, to be quite honest I didn't run any ads my mother did. I also did not write the ads because I would have put a no dumb asses clause in it.

[Rhino]

quite honest I hope I'm not marrying Jack Mildren.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I hope I'm not marrying Jack Mildren.Surprise!

[Taxman71]

I have settled a couple of non-disclosure cases. Both were pretty simple, seller lied, buyer had major problem shortly after closing, buyer discoverd smoking gun from repair man who had been called repeatedly to the house to "patch" said defect. The only holdup was the lawyer on the other side pretending like he actually had a case for 2 months.

Bad news is the lawyer seller may string it out by representing himself at no cost. Good news (if you have the smoking gun) is your fees and costs should be recoverable. Also, be sure to read your purchase contract closely regarding defects and remedies.

[Scott D]

how come nobody likes OUAndy?

sounds to me like he got screwed. like he said, this ain't about the carpet wearing for wallpaper peeling. the people lied by omission when the filled out the disclosure. this is exactly why the disclosure exists.

Then obviously the disclosure doesn't work. If the end result is a lawsuit over the condition of the home, it'll probably end up with more in legal and court fees over the disclosure being a lie than it would to fix the problem.

I haven't heard of a single disclosure in Oklahoma from people I've talked with that have bought a home from a previous owner where there weren't "lies" of omission in the disclosure. Clearly this little rule isn't getting people to be any more honest about problems when it comes to selling a house than they were before. Why don't we just invent Housefax and create a national repair database for every single address in this country, it'd be more reliable than a document that you expect full honesty out of a homeowner on.

[Hamhock]

Then obviously the disclosure doesn't work. If the end result is a lawsuit over the condition of the home, it'll probably end up with more in legal and court fees over the disclosure being a lie than it would to fix the problem.



i'm not sure exactly how many times, but it's been said at least twice in this thread that legal and court fees are recoverable.

keep up ;)

[Scott D]

recoverability is only on the chance that you actually win, no?

pretty obvious where I want to go with this.

Let's get full disclosure on used cars now too! :D

Salvation Army needs to get full disclosure on that bag of old clothes that doesn't fit you anymore! :D

[sooneron]

Why would anybody buy an old home from a couple of fags?
Who would you buy an old house that has been renovated from? Rednecks?

[Hamhock]

recoverability is only on the chance that you actually win, no?

pretty obvious where I want to go with this.

Let's get full disclosure on used cars now too! :D

Salvation Army needs to get full disclosure on that bag of old clothes that doesn't fit you anymore! :D


comparing real estate with thrift store clothes? any time you buy something of significant value you should get a warranties and reps clause.

if they knew the place had sewer issues, they should have disclosed it. if they didn't, they should be held accountable.

there is no law that requires the seller of a used car to disclose everything that is wrong with it. both sides know it is caveat emptor. real estate is a different story. the buyer has the right to rely on the seller's statements as to what is wrong with the house.

yes, fees would only be if you win. he should only bring an action if the seller refused to make it right and he is sure the seller was dishonest.

[Scott D]

comparing real estate with thrift store clothes? any time you buy something of significant value you should get a warranties and reps clause.

if they knew the place had sewer issues, they should have disclosed it. if they didn't, they should be held accountable.

there is no law that requires the seller of a used car to disclose everything that is wrong with it. both sides know it is caveat emptor. real estate is a different story. the buyer has the right to rely on the seller's statements as to what is wrong with the house.

yes, fees would only be if you win. he should only bring an action if the seller refused to make it right and he is sure the seller was dishonest.

well I'd say it's obvious the seller was dishonest, he *is* a lawyer. ;)

thrift stores was the signification of the silliness of the whole matter.

If there wasn't such a concern with being stuck with a junker, there never would have been a market for CarFax. I'd say that while the financial numbers are vastly different, there is just as much reason to rely on the seller's statements as to what may or may not be wrong with the vehicle as much as the house.

Besides, just think of how convenient a service like Housefax would be. You'd have no need for things like disclosure forms, since every time someone got called out for any problem such as plumbing, foundation, termites, etc. It'd be in that database.

Good luck proving that these people 'knowingly' omitted any information from the disclosure. If that isn't the biggest loophole that makes the entire disclosure matter a joke, then I don't know what is.

Out of curiosity, what 'genius' got re-elected on the platform of that?

[Hamhock]

Good luck proving that these people 'knowingly' omitted any information from the disclosure.




repairman's testimony and paid invoices make it pretty easy.

[Scott D]

repairman's testimony and paid invoices make it pretty easy.

if the last invoice was 6 months ago then I'd disagree that it makes it "pretty easy". Seems to me in court, people have a tendency to forget as recently as what they had for dinner last night.

[Hamhock]

if the last invoice was 6 months ago then I'd disagree that it makes it "pretty easy". Seems to me in court, people have a tendency to forget as recently as what they had for dinner last night.


i agree, but i'd be willing to be that the standard of "knew or should have known" is not skirted as easily as "i've slept since then".

[Hamhock]

i'll handle the case on a contingent for 1/3 of the recovery.

[Scott D]

i agree, but i'd be willing to be that the standard of "knew or should have known" is not skirted as easily as "i've slept since then".

I'm not arguing that point at all. However the, "It was an honest mistake" excuse will likely be used at some point depending on how well the defending is going.

Like I said, I just don't think that the disclosure while created in good faith is the answer it needs to be. There needs to be a better way to access records of repairs done somewhere, and it'd likely be a lot more reliable than relying on a disclosure form.

Truthfully, I wouldn't expect full honesty or disclosure from a previous owner if I'm buying for one simple reason. They are still a flesh and blood human.

Oh and I should probably add, a few weeks ago on the news here, there was a "money saving tip" that the "money guy" on the station gave in regards to home sales. He talked about a survey done with professionals in the industry on what kinds of things help or hurt an attempt to sell a home. Certain phrases you can use that trends show helps your home sell faster, and other phrases that can make your home stay on the market for weeks or months longer than it probably should. That plays into this whole disclosure bit as well I'd bet.

[BigRedJed]

When I bought my last old house, I knew someone who was an attorney with the city, who alerted me that a neighbor had a pending lawsuit related to the sewer main. During the city's investigation for the lawsuit they had also scoped the line of the house I was moving into and saw that not only was it partially collapsed, the last few feet of its run was actually BELOW the main, which had been replaced recently (the house was close to 80 years old. The sewer line had to be backed up and totally full to drain, and would always have standing waste in it.

So I made sure the home inspector scoped the sewer line and threw that on her during the inspection. At that point she had to replace the sewer line or bail on the deal. If she bailed on the deal, she had to start over, and would have to disclose the sewer line problem to any future buyer. She was strapped for cash because she spent money like a fool, so I knew that would be unlikely. She had been pretty ****ty during the negotiation, and I was pretty dispassionate during the whole thing, so I think she knew I wouldn't lose a night's sleep if she walked. I had already beaten her down nearly $30,000 from her asking price (which was CRAZY high) over the course of multiple offers and counters, so I think she just didn't want to go through it all again. Plus, like I said, she had become broke-*** and didn't want to wait for the next deal to materialize. She actually had to borrow the money from her parents to replace the sewer line.

There were lots of things she failed to disclose, it turns out, some of which were missed on inspection. She really has no idea how many I passed on raking her over the coals on. I just wanted the sewer line replaced, and knew I could handle the rest of the stuff.

She did her best to get even, though. After the sale was done, she talked to the people across the street (who she had never bothered to even meet before, and who had become our close friends very quickly) at their garage sale. She told them quite proudly that she had instructed the sewer line contractor to run the line diagonally across the yard instead of down the side, so that we'd be screwed if we wanted to install a pool. Apparently she had overheard us discussing whether a pool would be a good fit in the back yard. So not only did she fail to disclose things, she intentionally tried to screw us. We never were really interested in the pool, so no big.

[BigRedJed]

I failed to mention that the house had a basement. Keeping the sewer from backing **** into the basement was a top priority for me.

[SleestakSooner]

Speaking of the easment and the shed being over the line, a good majority of those loan surveys are done in the final week or two before a closing. There is a good possibility that nobody knew that the shed was encroaching over the easement until the MLI survey was done.

If it is not a "permanent" structure it really shouldn't be an issue. I have seen many of these surveys come back showing the neighbor's driveway or concrete slab for the a/c unit as being over the property line. Consider yourself lucky if a temporary structure was only slightly encroaching a utilities easement. That is not a big deal at all and I really doubt that the previous owners knew about it until after that survey.

As far as the foundation is concerned, of course you should expect to have issues in the central Oklahoma area. The high clay content in our soil causes a ton of foundation problems. Why do you think there are so damn many foundation repair companies around here?

I can, however, see your right to bitch about the sewer lines. They probably should have mentioned that, but in selling a home, just like in going on a first date, you don't want to show your bad side first. If they don't happen to notice it later all the better! :D

[Taxman71]

Sadly, all of these issues arise from owning an 80 year old home. I owned an 80 year old home in OKC and never had any major events like Andy, but it is constantly one thing or another. New electrical box, neighbors 90 year old tree about to collapse, sewer line connecting to the city needs replaced, foundation issues, termite damage, brick need to be repointed, etc. It is the price for living close to downtown OKC and have that character in a home. Besides, you won't need a realtor when you sell b/c people are dying to live in those hoods.

That being said, we went for the brand new route when the babies starting coming. No time left for all that maintenance.

[dolemitesooner]

It was two guys you bought the house from? Ew! :twinkies:
Were the two guys Yermom and some muther ****er named chis