anyone ever converted to Catholic Church?

[usmc-sooner]

I grew up Protestant but I really like going to mass on Sundays. There are certain things I disagree with the Catholic Church on but still I like to go.

[VeeJay]

I've been but really didn't understand much of what was going on.

One of my all-time classic fights with a girlfriend followed Good Friday Mass. Good times.

[Rogue]

Yes, when I was 25.

[Newbomb Turk]

I grew up Protestant but I really like going to mass on Sundays. There are certain things I disagree with the Catholic Church on but still I like to go.

my wife converted before we were married. Interesting - she felt the same way you did - a few things she disagreed with but still wanted to convert.

[olevetonahill]

They are worse than penticostals , Up and down , up an down :eek:

[royalfan5]

I grew up Protestant but I really like going to mass on Sundays. There are certain things I disagree with the Catholic Church on but still I like to go.
You should try Lutheran, we are like Catholics with extra awesome.

[Newbomb Turk]

They are worse than penticostals , Up and down , up an down :eek:

No time to nod off - keeps you "in the game". :)

[olevetonahill]

No time to nod off - keeps you "in the game". :)
If Im gonna go , at least let me sit on my fat *** and listen to the fatass preacher dude .:cool:

[OUinFLA]

If Im gonna go , at least let me sit on my fat *** and listen to the fatass preacher dude .:cool:

much like you're doing right now?

[olevetonahill]

much like you're doing right now?
Preach On Brother Hala****inluya :D

[VeeJay]

Olevet - you're right about that up and down part. The Baptists are bad, but the Catholics wore my a$$ out, and I never did figure out why we wuz up and down so much.

[Newbomb Turk]

and I never did figure out why we wuz up and down so much.

cuz you are a sinner, and they are going to work the sin out of you! :)

[VeeJay]

Well, I knew I was a sinner. Hell, I didn't have to go to church to find that out.

If the priest had told me not to worry about my drunken tomfoolery and pre-marital fornicatin' and all, I'd probably have gone back.

[Widescreen]

I grew up Protestant but I really like going to mass on Sundays. There are certain things I disagree with the Catholic Church on but still I like to go.
Can you not go to mass without converting?

[usmc-sooner]

Can you not go to mass without converting?

I've been going. I'm not Catholic. Nobody's ever asked me if I was Catholic or not.

[JohnnyMack]

They have the prettiest churches. Hands down. Not even close.

I'd go Catholic if I ever got religion. Just 'cause of the cool digs.

[OU-HSV]

They have the prettiest churches. Hands down. Not even close.

I'd go Catholic if I ever got religion. Just 'cause of the cool digs.
I know what you're saying about the digs thing. They have some awesome churches.

[OUDoc]

Olevet - you're right about that up and down part. The Baptists are bad, but the Catholics wore my a$$ out, and I never did figure out why we wuz up and down so much.
Blood clots. We try to prevent blood clots. :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

Hell Im thinking of applying to be a preacher for em :D
They get free room an board , all the wine and stuff they want .
Are the Nuns Hawt ?

[jk the sooner fan]

my wife is catholic and we attend mass.....there are some tenets of the church that i dont agree with, but i'm still able to get out of it what i feel is necessary

i personally wouldnt convert though

[Petro-Sooner]

I had a "friend" that is catholic. I thought about going to church with her but never got around to it. Always wanted to see what it was like. Would never convert, but always wanted to see the goingson.

[Boomerbrad]

I did. Born baptist, married a Cradle Catholic and converted a few years later. For those wondering:

Tour of the New Mass

The Mass is made of two main parts:

* the Liturgy of the Word; and
* the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

The Entrance

Mass begins with the entrance of the Priest. On Sundays and Feast Days, an entrance hymn will be sung. Otherwise, a short passage (usually from Scripture) is recited called the "Entrance Antiphon".

Being our greatest prayer, the Mass begins by making the Sign of the Cross (the traditional way that Catholics "bless themselves" and begin and conclude "formal" prayers).
The Penitential Rite

The Priest greets the people and invites everyone to reflect briefly on their unworthiness and sinfulness to prepare for the celebration of the Mass. The People may recite the "Confiteor":

I confess to Almighty God,
and to you here present,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
["mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa"]
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do.
And I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you here present
to pray for me to the Lord, our God.

The Priest then leads the "Kyrie" -- "Lord have mercy", "Christ have mercy", "Lord have mercy" -- before giving a general absolution to prepare the People for reception of the Blessed Sacrament. (This does not apply to people in a state of Mortal Sin who must first receive absolution within the Sacrament of Penance before approaching the Blessed Sacrament.)

There is an then an opening prayer recited by the Priest. The prayers and the various readings chosen for the particular Mass follow a particular "theme".
The Liturgy of the Word

First, a passage from the Old Testament, the Acts of the Apostles or the Book of Revelation is read.

This is followed either by the singing or recitation of one of the Psalms. Usually a lector or cantor will recite or sing a verse, to which the People will respond with an antiphon from the Psalm.

Then, a passage from one of the Epistles (the New Testament "Letters") is read as the Second Reading.

At feria (weekday) Masses, only one reading and Psalm occurs. At some Masses, additional readings are also given -- at the Easter Vigil, the most important Mass of the year, celebrating the Resurrection, there can be up to 15 readings!

The First and Second Readings and Psalm are usually read by lay people, most properly by Lectors, lay people who have been formally commissioned to read the Readings in their parish.

The Readings are then followed by the Gospel Acclamation -- a great "Alleluia!" by the People welcoming the Word. The People stand for the Gospel Acclamation and remain standing while a Priest or Deacon reads a passage from the Gospel. On particularly special occasions, the Priest may chant the Gospel.

At the conclusion of the Gospel, the People sit to listen to the Priest's "Homily", a reflection on the various readings and their application to our lives.

Following the homily and a short time to reflect quietly on what Father has said, the People stand to rectie the Creed. Catholics, as do all Christians, recite together this formulation of our Faith.

Following the Creed, the People place the needs of the world before our Father in Heaven in the "General Intercessions" or "Prayers of the Faithful". A Lector will usually read a short intercession which the People make their own by responding, "Lord, Hear our Prayer". These prayers usually pray for the Pope and the Church, the Leaders of our Nation, for an increase in vocations to the priesthood, for those in difficulties, for the sick and infirm (especially those from the particular parish), for the dead.

This concludes the first part of the Mass.
The Offertory Rites

Some members of the congregation (quite often children or a family) then take up the "gifts": the candles that will sit on the altar to signal the presence of Christ, our Light, the bread which will beome the Body of Christ and the Wine which will become His Blood.

This is also when the first Collection is taken. The People are invited to give an offering which is forwarded to the Bishop or Archbishop to be used for the purposes of the Diocese.
The Liturgy of the Eucharist

The Priest receives these gifts and says a blessing over them, offering them to God, the work and fruit of our hands, highlighting the great mystery that God will take food and drink we have made and transform them into a Heavenly Meal, the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus.

After blessing the gifts, the Priest prays that God will cleanse him of all iniquity and symbolically washes his fingers which will touch the Lord.

The People then pray that God will accept the Priest's Sacrifice "for the Praise and Glory of His Name, for our good and the good of all His Church".

The Mass has its beginning in the Last Supper when Our Lord first changed bread and wine into His Body and Blood. But it also has its links in the great events of Good Friday. Each Mass is a continuation and a re-offering of Christ's sacrifice on Calvary. It takes the holocausts and burnt, bloody sacrifices of the Old Testament and transforms them into the Holy Sacrifice of the Lamb of God that redeemed all mankind.

After the Priest recites a short prayer of praise to God -- the "Preface" -- the People sing the Heavenly Chant of the "Sanctus" "with all the Angels and Saints":

Holy, Holy, Holy Lord,
God of Power and Might,
Heaven and Earth are full of Your glory
Hosanna in the Highest!
Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord
Hosanna in the Highest!

The People then kneel in readiness for the moment when Jesus will become truly, physcically present on the altar.

The Priest begins to pray a great prayer of thanksgiving and supplication to God called the "Eucharistic Prayer". There are a number of Eucharistic Prayers for the Priest to choose from:

* The First Eucharistic Prayer is a translation of the Canon. The Canon was the only Eucharistic Prayer that was said in the Latin Rite from the time of the Counter-Reformation until Vatican II. It is rich in the history of the People of God, it calls on our Jewish heritage, it reminds us of our Heavenly goal, it calls on each of the Apostles and the Saints and the Martyrs of the Early Church, each by name, to intercede for us. (It is my personal favourite!)
* The Second Eucharistic Prayer (one of the new ones introduced by Pope Paul VI after Vatican II) is based on the Eucharistic Prayers in use in the very early Church. It is beautiful in its simplicity and many appreciate how it links us to the prayer of the early Church. Many also appreciate that it is so much shorter than the others! (It is certainly the most often used, the "default" Eucharistic Prayer, if you like!)
* The Third Eucharistic Prayer draws greatly on the liturgical traditions and imagery of the Eastern Church.
* There is also a Fourth Eucharistic Prayer and a number written especially for Masses with Children.

The common elements of the Eucharistic Prayers are:

* The Consecration -- the moment when the Priest transforms the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Our Lord by repeating the words of consecration:

This is my Body (hic est enim corpus meum)
This is the cup of my Blood (hoc est calix sanguinis meus)

* Prayer for the Church
* Prayer for the Pope, the local Ordinary (Bishop), all priests and all the Faithful
* Prayer for the Faithful Departed (those Faithful who have died)
* Invocation of the Blessed Virgin, the Apostles and the Saints
* Finally, the Doxology of Praise by the Priest followed by the People's "Great Amen":

Through Him, with Him, in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honour are Yours, Almighty Father, for ever and ever. Amen.

The People then stand to say the Lord's Prayer together and to share the Kiss of Peace with each other (usually a handshake or a nod of the head!)

The Priest then breaks the Body of Christ while the People pray, "Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us." (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis).

The Priest then invites us again to acknowledge our unworthiness in the "Domine, non sum dignus":

"Lord, I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word, and I shall be healed."

The Priest then eats and drinks the Body and Blood of the Lord before proceeding to distribute the Sacrament to each of the People in turn who wish and are able to receive communion.

This is the great pinnacle of the Mass, of the Christian Life, of the Church, the moment when Jesus, truly present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, enters into our very being, our bodies and souls, making us one together with Him and with each other, cleaving us to His Mystical Body, the Church.

Needless to say, a few moments' quiet refletion and then a song of great joy and praise follow this blessed moment!

At this stage, a second collection is usually taken. The proceeds of this collection are for the needs of the parish (maintenance of the Church buildings, paying for the electricity, funds for the Parish School, etc.) and to provide for the priests.

After consuming any remaining Precious Blood and placing any remaining hosts in the Tabernacle, the Priest cleans and purifies the sacred vessels and then sits quietly for a time in reflection and thanksgiving.
The concluding rites

Finally, the Priest blesses the People and "dismisses" them "The Mass is ended! Go in Peace to love and serve the Lord!" He sends us out into the World to take Christ with us in our hearts and make Him known to whoever we meet. The Priest then proceeds out of the Church while the People sing a final hymn.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/mass/newmass.asp

[Dio]

You left out a lot of standing up, sitting down, and kneeling. ;)

[Ike]

I grew up catholic and still have no idea about much of anything that goes on during mass...except that you sit, stand and kneel a lot, recite a bunch of prayers from memory without ever thinking about what you are actually saying, fall asleep during the sermon, then stand in line for a while to get a cardboard wafer.

But some of the songs are pretty nice.


yeah, that right there is pretty much why I don't go anymore...except on Christmas...they save all the best songs for then.

[VeeJay]

I noticed a lot of the music sounded a little like some of the old Madonna songs. The "Like A Prayer" and "Papa Don't Preach" era.

Just an observation, and I think that comes from Madonna mimicking what she grew up with rather than the Catholic music folks trying to sound like her.

[Okla-homey]

My baby bro fell in love with a cradle Catholic and converted in order to marry her. The whole family loves her and they have four children (so far.)

There is much about Catholicism I really dig. In fact, I could probably be one myself but for marionism. I just can't buy the Co-Redemptress doctrine. That constitutes an irreconciable difference for me.

[royalfan5]

My baby bro fell in love with a cradle Catholic and converted in order to marry her. The whole family loves her and they have four children (so far.)

There is much about Catholicism I really dig. In fact, I could probably be one myself but for marionism. I just can't buy the Co-Redemptress doctrine. That constitutes an irreconciable difference for me.
Try being a Lutheran then. We kept the good parts and scrapped the bad parts. Plus you get to sing alot.

[StoopTroup]

I've always enjoyed the Catholic Mass.

As a youngster I went to many a different Church with families of friends etc...

Anyway I attended a Catholic School for years as my Family on my Father's side had been Catholic but were no practicing Catholics.

As I got older I was drawn back to the Catholic Church.

I enjoy the Traditions and the History of the Church.

Learning more about the History and Traditions are probably the sole reason I learned how to keep God in my life and learn each day to help others and involve myself and my Family in making our World a better place.

RCIA is a great place for those who may be searching for God to be in thier life.

Whether Catholic or not...the doors of the Church are open to all.

God Bless

ST

[jk the sooner fan]

open to all? maybe theoretically, but not completely.....as a protestant believer in Christ, I'm not welcome to take communion in a catholic church

but catholic believers are always welcome to take communion in a protestant church.....

[Vaevictis]

Bah, just remind them that you're apparently already Catholic, you just don't know it yet. :D

[jk the sooner fan]

well its not like they ask me for the catholic id card, i take communion with my wife anyway.....i just dont care for the fact that they say i'm not welcome to do so

i get their whole "we're the one church" argument.....not that i necessarily agree with it, but i dont think Christ had it in mind to keep believers from partaking in communion

[Rogue]

RCIA = Rite of Chrisitian Initiation of Adults. This is the means of converting. It's a catechism education for those who are there by choice and not because their parents insist on it.

I wish the church would at least join the 20th century and get real about things like contraception and women clergy. Alas, I'm not here to change the church but rather vice versa. And the droves priest molestatation scandals has been a challenge to come to terms with.

Mass is, to me, far and away and hands down the most beautiful religious service. One of my favorites was a West Texas church that had a Spanish language mass. I didn't understand most of it, but when they sang the "our father" (The Lord's Prayer to the rest of the world) in Spanish it would make the hair on my neck stand up.

Lutheran = Catholic "Lite". :D

Those of you that married Catholics and didn't convert, did you have to go meet the priest and agree to raise your kids Catholic?

[jk the sooner fan]

we werent married in a catholic church

so no

[Rogue]

We weren't either, but I checked with the priest and, in order to be "officially sanctioned" or some such we had to have the meeting and Mrs. Rogue had to sign some stuff. Because Mrs. Rogue isn't Catholic. He was o/o town a lot and agreed for me to have a chaplain buddy of mine do the required counseling. Think "Ole Vet gone legit." Anyhow what I remember my buddy saying is "secks is NOT a weapon." Solid advice really.

[sooneron]

I grew up Episcopal, we have the nice churches and the pomp and circumstance and only half of the guilt. I think some of the bigger catholic churches are a little too gaudy- too much gold ornate stuff like St Patty's.

My best friend converted when he was getting ready to marry a catholic. She couldn't understand why he'd want to convert, but went along with it.

[the_ouskull]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately as well. I was raised Southern Baptist, have fallen out of religion the past few years; although not out of faith, and now, have been considering seeing what the Catholic church has to offer. I don't think that I'd ever be able to convert. There are just too many aspects of their doctrine that I disagree with... but I feel that they have a stronger grasp of the concept of faith and what it should be. It seems much more one-on-one; I mean, other than mass, I guess.

the_ouskull

[JohnnyMack]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately as well. I was raised Southern Baptist, have fallen out of religion the past few years; although not out of faith, and now, have been considering seeing what the Catholic church has to offer. I don't think that I'd ever be able to convert. There are just too many aspects of their doctrine that I disagree with... but I feel that they have a stronger grasp of the concept of faith and what it should be. It seems much more one-on-one; I mean, other than mass, I guess.

the_ouskull

And cooler churches. Don't forget the cool churches.

[TUSooner]

My baby bro fell in love with a cradle Catholic and converted in order to marry her. The whole family loves her and they have four children (so far.)

There is much about Catholicism I really dig. In fact, I could probably be one myself but for marionism. I just can't buy the Co-Redemptress doctrine. That constitutes an irreconciable difference for me.

Yeah, I could easily be a "wink and a nod" Catholic. The unscriptural Mary obsession, and the Doctrine of Transubstantiation, as well as some of the crusty and superficial old ethical dogma gives me trouble, but reckon I'm more faithful to Catholic teaching than many of my Catholic friends. (Remember, New Orleans is a very Catholic town.) My kids go to Catholic school, my nominally Muslim wife works at a Catholic school, and I've been to Mass more times than I can count. (I've even taken communion with a clear conscience, though one or 2 of my friends - and a few posters - might recommend burning me at the stake for it.) There is something about the solidity of the tradition; and you almost always know where you stand (or kneel) with them.

ADDENDUM: Catholic hymn-singing is worse than pathetic.

[sooneron]

And cooler churches. Don't forget the cool churches.
St. John (in a crusty burned state) PWNS St Patty's!!:texan:

[Scott D]

I grew up Episcopal, we have the nice churches and the pomp and circumstance and only half of the guilt. I think some of the bigger catholic churches are a little too gaudy- too much gold ornate stuff like St Patty's.

My best friend converted when he was getting ready to marry a catholic. She couldn't understand why he'd want to convert, but went along with it.

best post in thread...ftw.

[rufnek05]

i like being catholic because mass is the same every sunday, always an hour long. don't have to worry about long winded preachers

[Ike]

i like being catholic because mass is the same every sunday, always an hour long. don't have to worry about long winded preachers

you should go to my parents church. The new priest they have started out there by telling them that mass would be rigidly timed to last one hour only. Now a couple years into his tenure, they consider themselves lucky to get out in an hour and a half.

[Boomerbrad]

you should go to my parents church. The new priest they have started out there by telling them that mass would be rigidly timed to last one hour only. Now a couple years into his tenure, they consider themselves lucky to get out in an hour and a half.

I think our priest knows most everyone would head for the doors if he went much past 1:05...:P

[Scott D]

I grew up Protestant but I really like going to mass on Sundays. There are certain things I disagree with the Catholic Church on but still I like to go.

ok...cut to the chase things.

1. It's a pretty specific program you have to follow in terms of conversion. It's interesting, but you're going to have to be dedicated to it if you are serious about it.

2. It's fine to disagree with the Catholic Church on things. Heck, I know Catholic Priests who disagree with the Church herself on certain matters.

3. You just want to use the confessional booth don't you. ;)

[JohnnyMack]

St. John (in a crusty burned state) PWNS St Patty's!!:texan:

Go sit in Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur in Paris.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Scoreboard.

Pwned.

Whatever.

:P

[soonerbrat]

I should've gone to confession when I was in Italy so the priest couldn't understand everything I said :D

[Penguin]

Man, I feel like I just went to church after reading this thread.

[soonerbrat]

you did.

bless you my son

[usmc-sooner]

ok...cut to the chase things.

1. It's a pretty specific program you have to follow in terms of conversion. It's interesting, but you're going to have to be dedicated to it if you are serious about it.

2. It's fine to disagree with the Catholic Church on things. Heck, I know Catholic Priests who disagree with the Church herself on certain matters.

3. You just want to use the confessional booth don't you. ;)


to be honest I really like structure. I like the old traditions. I would never feel the need to have another man hear about my sins.

I've experienced a lot in my life, both good and bad. IMO I've experienced more bad and evil than the average person. I don't know a whole lot about the whole Catholic thing, but I do know I feel good when I go. I know it sounds kinda corny but it doesn't bother me how long the service is, I feel good when I'm there. I went today and came away feeling refreshed and pretty good again.

[royalfan5]

to be honest I really like structure. I like the old traditions. I would never feel the need to have another man hear about my sins.

I've experienced a lot in my life, both good and bad. IMO I've experienced more bad and evil than the average person. I don't know a whole lot about the whole Catholic thing, but I do know I feel good when I go. I know it sounds kinda corny but it doesn't bother me how long the service is, I feel good when I'm there. I went today and came away feeling refreshed and pretty good again.
I think you would be a heck of a Lutheran. Join Fugue and I. You won't regret it.

[soonerbrat]

if you convert, you'll have to go to confession at least once
it actually feels pretty good to be absolved.

[sooneron]

Go sit in Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur in Paris.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Scoreboard.

Pwned.

Whatever.

:P
Frog lover. I raise you a Westminster and Notre Dame could fit INSIDE St. John!

[Scott D]

Frog lover. I raise you a Westminster and Notre Dame could fit INSIDE St. John!

I can think of about 5 locations that would have not only dwarfed his suggestions, but would have put them to shame in beauty. However, infighting amongst the people in power struggles have reduced every one of those locations to ruins that are tourist attractions.

[OklahomaTuba]

Just for fun, I started attending all the different types of Christian churchs I could find. In the end, it doesn't matter, just go where you feel The Word is reaching you and where you feel comfortable. The Lord's house is big, and everyone is welcome.

[OCUDad]

I feel like saying "go thou and sin no more," but with this crowd, it's useless...

[Scott D]

to be honest I really like structure. I like the old traditions. I would never feel the need to have another man hear about my sins.

I've experienced a lot in my life, both good and bad. IMO I've experienced more bad and evil than the average person. I don't know a whole lot about the whole Catholic thing, but I do know I feel good when I go. I know it sounds kinda corny but it doesn't bother me how long the service is, I feel good when I'm there. I went today and came away feeling refreshed and pretty good again.

Well if you perceive Confessional as another man hearing your sins you are going about it the wrong way. The concept is that the Priest is the vessel of absolution as you confess your sins to God.

I think the main thing in why people feel different in regards to comparing their normal churchgoing experiences to those of the Catholic church is because of the fact that it's relatively rigid formality that dates back many centuries in terms of the service. Compared to Catholicism pretty much every other version of Christianity can be considered fly-by-night. Not saying it's a bad thing or putting down those other denominations, but it's like comparing a football program that has been around for 100 years in Division I to one that has been around for 20 years.

And don't listen to royalfan....those germanic nebraskans were blindly forced to become lutherans ;)

[Scott D]

Just for fun, I started attending all the different types of Christian churchs I could find. In the end, it doesn't matter, just go where you feel The Word is reaching you and where you feel comfortable. The Lord's house is big, and everyone is welcome.

The Branch Davidians called and said you can't come ;)

[OklahomaTuba]

Anyone know any Orthodox peeps? I need to check that one out me thinks.

[OklahomaTuba]

The Branch Davidians called and said you can't come ;)

Maybe if I just tell them I am from the government, they will let me in. ;)

[VeeJay]

I'm going down into the colored part of town next time a Democratic presidential candidate comes-a-calling.

[Hamhock]

you really should do some research into what the catholic faith believes. The "church" has a lot of doctrine that is simply unbiblical, that even many every day catholics don't know about like mary worship, pope worship, salvation by works, ignoring the priesthood of the believer, etc....

if you like a more formal, structured service, try a good reformed lutheran or presbyterian church. they have a lot of the piety without totally screwing up the doctrine.

[crawfish]

to be honest I really like structure. I like the old traditions.

Personally, I find all the structure and traditions a bit stifling. It's taken a long time for me to realize that some people just need a lot of tradition & structure in their own personal faith walk. I have no problem with it until it becomes a salvation factor; i.e. those traditions and rituals become a matter of corporate rather than personal faith.

[leavingthezoo]

Well if you perceive Confessional as another man hearing your sins you are going about it the wrong way. The concept is that the Priest is the vessel of absolution as you confess your sins to God.

this always confuses me. why not just let God be the vessel of absolution? i'm not really looking for an answer. it's rhetorical.

rhe.tor.i.cal.

[crawfish]

this always confuses me. why not just let God be the vessel of absolution? i'm not really looking for an answer. it's rhetorical.

rhe.tor.i.cal.

Yeah, that's always annoyed me. In the OT, you needed a priest as an intermediary to seek God's forgiveness. Christ came as the "great high priest", sacrificing his life to become the intermediary so we can interact with God directly through Christ. Then, the Catholic church reinstates priests as intermediaries, essentially undoing the power of Christ's sacrifice.

In reality, allowing the masses access to God was considered a danger to the hierarchy of the Church, thus confession was implemented. There is definitely value to private confession, between a believer and a member of the clergy; however, there is no special power to it or no authority given the priest to absolve any sin.

[Hamhock]

allowing the masses access to God was considered a danger to the hierarchy of the Church, thus confession was

that's a good point. much of the hierarchy and ritual of the catholic church was built based on the premise that the common man couldn't access God. the "Church" will tell the flock what to believe and do. I think a guy named luther had something to say about this.





There is definitely value to private confession, between a believer and a member of the clergy;

or another believer for that matter. i'm not aware where the Bible recommends confessing sins only to clergy

[Petro-Sooner]

I may be totally in the dark but does the priest give some sort of sermon? Talk about how to apply the Lords teachings to our day to day lives or is it just a bunch of "readings"?

[jk the sooner fan]

yes, the priest does give a sermon......a little different in delivery but basically the same

[JohnnyMack]

I can think of about 5 locations that would have not only dwarfed his suggestions, but would have put them to shame in beauty. However, infighting amongst the people in power struggles have reduced every one of those locations to ruins that are tourist attractions.

It isn't about size or beauty it's about feel as far as I'm concerned. The history associated with them.

I'm curious though, which ones you're talking about?

[C&CDean]

My first wife was a Catholic. We got married in a Catholic church (Our Mother of Sorrows was the name of it - and why are they all into the pain thing?). I had to attend a couple weekends of Engaged Encounter and then sit through a couple counseling sessions with the priest. We did the whole mass thing, but I didn't do the communion part.

To put it in perspective, I had only been inside a Catholic church one time before - for a Christmas Eve midnight mass in the 60's back when it was all incense, latin, women with scarves on their heads, etc. Scared the ever-lovin' **** outta this Pilgrim of Holiness/Pentecostal/Nazarene raised boy.

Then, my next experience with Catholicism was watching The Exorcist. Scared the ever-lovin' **** outta this POH/P/N raised boy.

There's just way too many things I don't agree with to ever consider converting. When I worked at the pizza parlor the priests used to come in and get ****faced drunk and smoke big cigars and carry on like frat boys. And I'm supposed to tell this schmo my sins so he can tell God for me? Meh. Then the whole celibacy deal. Sorry, but that **** ain't natural, and if God wanted a man to be celibate, he'd have made him a eunich.

The whole rote memory thing, mundane ceremony, and lifeless sermons and songs are also big negatives for me.

However, like JM said, Catholic churches are some of the prettiest buildings man has ever built. And the history surrounding many of the old churches in Europe is amazing. I always feel humble when I go into one of those big old churches. Or some of the small ones too. San Xavier Mission in Arizona is allsome. Built by Father Eusebio Kino in the 1500's some time.

I attended a funeral a month or so ago at St. Joseph's in Norman. Very pretty church, but it was the most lifeless (heh), non-feeling, unemotional funeral I've ever attended. And the stiff was a great guy who deserved a lot more weeping/gnashing of teeth. Nary a tear was shed, and it was more like a play than a funeral.

All that said, I figure you go do whatever it is that floats your boat. Personally, I ain't gonna "convert" to any man-made religion. They all suck in their own ways. This is why people spend their whole lives searching for that "perfect church" when it doesn't exist (actually it does, but it ain't in a building anywhere). People that join up find ways to ignore the little things they disagree with their church's doctrine. I just can't do that. To me, that's like lying. To God.

Anyhow, carry on...

[jk the sooner fan]

catholic funerals can last for days.....

[StoopTroup]

I've had many a talk with non-Catholics about how the Catholic Church is non-biblical and the Praying to Mary and the Saints rethoric.

It always seems to lead to how somebody is right or wrong about what's in the Bible.

This week is again a reminder of Jesus saying...Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

We all sin.

Therefore...

We are not perfect.

What vessel you choose...whether Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal....

You are at least on the right track.

The evil we all face would have us divided and pitted against ourselves.

[JohnnyMack]

And the history surrounding many of the old churches in Europe is amazing.......Or some of the small ones too.

St. Mere Eglise.

[jk the sooner fan]

I've had many a talk with non-Catholics about how the Catholic Church is non-biblical and the Praying to Mary and the Saints rethoric.

It always seems to lead to how somebody is right or wrong about what's in the Bible.

This week is again a reminder of Jesus saying...Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

We all sin.

Therefore...

We are not perfect.

What vessel you choose...whether Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal....

You are at least on the right track.

The evil we all face would have us divided and pitted against ourselves.

yep, you choose what you're most comfortable in.....i dont agree with alot th catholics do, but i go to mass with my wife because she likes it, and i'm able to get out of it what i need......God is still in the building, and thats whats important

[C&CDean]

St. Mere Eglise.

Airborne!!!

[Okla-homey]

Airborne!!!

HOW FAR?

[Hamhock]

get a room, you two

;)

[C&CDean]

ALL THE ****IN' WAY, SIR!!!!

[swardboy]

I could not subscribe to a religion that:
- Simply replaced imperial Rome's hierarchy in it's structure...thank you Constantine.
- Totally rejects Paul's teaching that the church is a priesthood of ALL believers...not the spiritually athletic few.
- the co-redemptrix thingy mentioned earlier..."there is only one name given among men by which all must be saved"...and it ain't "Mary"
- postulates that the CHURCH determines the SCRIPTURE, instead of SCRIPTURE determining the form of the CHURCH (no disagreement with my take on that by the Catholic PTB)
- Misinterprets Jesus words in Matthew 16 to say that Peter is the "rock" that the church is builti upon, when Christ was saying that HIS identity is the rock the church is built upon (that HE is the Christ, the Son of the Living God)
- Has men wanting to be called "Father" and yet they dress like "Mother"

[StoopTroup]

swardboy...

I take it you never converted then?

[Hamhock]

i really can't agree with the notion that it really doesn't matter where you go to church. doctrine should determine how we live our life.

changing churches, imo, is a very significant life event. changing religions even more so.

i would really recommend you doing some research before converting to any religion. john macarthur has given some great talks on the dangers of catholicism. i'd grab a couple of those and ask some questions of the catholic priests before converting.

[soonerbrat]

about beautiful churches....here's one of my favorite pics from northern Italy..I saw probably 100 churches when I was there, but this was by far my favorite:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/soonerbrat/italy/964de0c5.jpg

[C&CDean]

i really can't agree with the notion that it really doesn't matter where you go to church. doctrine should determine how we live our life.

changing churches, imo, is a very significant life event. changing religions even more so.

i would really recommend you doing some research before converting to any religion. john macarthur has given some great talks on the dangers of catholicism. i'd grab a couple of those and ask some questions of the catholic priests before converting.

Or he could save himself some $$ and just talk to my mom. She'll tell him that Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Mormons, 7th Dayers, Jehovah's witnesses, Methodists, and especially Episcopalians are gonna burn in hell. After all, if you don't believe in the doctrine of HER church, you're simply wrong.

I come by my distaste for religion very honestly.

[Hamhock]

what is she? wiccan?

[sooner_born_1960]

- Misinterprets Jesus words in Matthew 16 to say that Peter is the "rock" that the church is builti upon, when Christ was saying that HIS identity is the rock the church is built upon (that HE is the Christ, the Son of the Living God)

Reading of the verse in question, I understand it to say that Peter is the rock on which He will build His church.

[C&CDean]

what is she? wiccan?

Heh. Nope, she was raised Pilgrim of Holiness/Pentecostal, then she went way liberal and joined the Nazarene church, and now is a Salvationist (Salvation Army) and has been for about the last 25 years or so. She runs the soup kitchen in Tucson, and does prison ministry at 4 different prisons in Arizona. 7 days a week. She's 73 years old, and meaner than me.

[soonerbrat]

Heh. Nope, she was raised Pilgrim of Holiness/Pentecostal, then she went way liberal and joined the Nazarene church, and now is a Salvationist (Salvation Army) and has been for about the last 25 years or so. She runs the soup kitchen in Tucson, and does prison ministry at 4 different prisons in Arizona. 7 days a week. She's 73 years old, and meaner than me.


meaner than you?

yikes!

[sanantoniosooner]

My car has a Catholic Converter but I'm scared to use it.

[SoonerJack]

Go sit in Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur in Paris.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Scoreboard.

Pwned.

Whatever.

:P

Until you think about how they were paid for. Go read a biography of Martin Luther. Good stuff.

[Petro-Sooner]

Did you see the flying buttresses in that pic? Two things I learn in humanities. Flying buttresses and hypostyle halls.

I love saying flying buttresses. :texan:

[C&CDean]

about beautiful churches....here's one of my favorite pics from northern Italy..I saw probably 100 churches when I was there, but this was by far my favorite:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/soonerbrat/italy/964de0c5.jpg

That looks like that church in The Omen where the steeple gets hit by lightning and the cross falls off and impales the priest. "Damien....."

[Hamhock]

Reading of the verse in question, I understand it to say that Peter is the rock on which He will build His church.


which is why you don't base doctrine on a single verse. the verse has to be looked at in its context. the subject needs to be viewed in totality with what other sections of scripture say about it and in some cases (this one) the original language and translation needs to be studied.

[sooner_born_1960]

In other words; "whichever way I want to spin it".

[Hamhock]

In other words; "whichever way I want to spin it".


sure. that's what i meant.

[soonerbrat]

That looks like that church in The Omen where the steeple gets hit by lightning and the cross falls off and impales the priest. "Damien....."


nah, that church was in england.

[Scott D]

It isn't about size or beauty it's about feel as far as I'm concerned. The history associated with them.

I'm curious though, which ones you're talking about?

Battle Abbey is one in East Sussux, England. The church portion of it has been gone for centuries, and what remains of the entire Abbey is mainly a girls' school. Westminster Abbey is pretty glorious, and probably the largest intact very old Abbey in all of England (mostly famous because the royals use it). Bath Abbey in Avon is another grand old structure that technically dates back to the 6th century.

Among the ones that are purely ruins are Glastonbury Abbey, Tintern Abbey in Wales, Valle Crucis Abbey also in Wales, and St. David's Cathedral in Wales as well. Out of those St. David's is still the most intact, and it's considered a 'small' cathedral 'city'.

[JohnnyMack]

Battle Abbey is one in East Sussux, England. The church portion of it has been gone for centuries, and what remains of the entire Abbey is mainly a girls' school. Westminster Abbey is pretty glorious, and probably the largest intact very old Abbey in all of England (mostly famous because the royals use it). Bath Abbey in Avon is another grand old structure that technically dates back to the 6th century.

Among the ones that are purely ruins are Glastonbury Abbey, Tintern Abbey in Wales, Valle Crucis Abbey also in Wales, and St. David's Cathedral in Wales as well. Out of those St. David's is still the most intact, and it's considered a 'small' cathedral 'city'.

Beautiful places. I think saying one is more beautiful than another is like trying to decide which Victoria's Secret model you wanna bang. You can't really lose.

[soonerbrat]

oh yeah, let's compare churches to banging models.
nice.

[C&CDean]

oh yeah, let's compare churches to banging models.
nice.

JM has already come to grips with the fact that Satan and him are gonna be butt buddies when he passes on.

[SweetheartSooner]

nm

[swardboy]

Reading of the verse in question, I understand it to say that Peter is the rock on which He will build His church.

Aha! But in the original greek Peter is called "petros", little rock, and then Jesus says "Upon this 'petra", or large rock, I will build my church." A play on words...Peter had just said that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God, and Jesus was saying that His identity was the large, foundational truth that the church is built upon. Jesus was commending Peter for getting the question about Jesus' identity correct.

And think about it, if Jesus isn't who he says he is, the whole rational for "church" is blown apart.

But of course catholicism makes this a rationale for apostolic succession, the belief that Peter was the first Pope, and every pope thereafter is in a line of apostles since the first century.

[IB4OU2]

My car has a Catholic Converter but I'm scared to use it.

You must not be to sacred to make up a joke like that.... Oh you said scared. ;)

[SweetheartSooner]

What about the verses after that?

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

[Hamhock]

What about the verses after that?

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


what about it?

[JohnnyMack]

JM has already come to grips with the fact that Satan and him are gonna be butt buddies when he passes on.

I'm pitchin'.

He's catchin'.

[C&CDean]

I'm pitchin'.

He's catchin'.

Wanna bet? You're gonna be thinking a lot about your heathen ways when Satan's glowing ember is deep within your lower G.I. tract. Of course you're already used to that, but it's gonna be painful, none-the-less.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

http://riannanworld.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/hotdog.JPG

[C&CDean]

I've never had to mod a mod's post before.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

I just noticed that it has harbls.

Hee hee...

[C&CDean]

I'm cracking up here. I'm thinking about JM having that thing deep within his bowels. For ETERNITY.

[JohnnyMack]

Wanna bet? You're gonna be thinking a lot about your heathen ways when Satan's glowing ember is deep within your lower G.I. tract. Of course you're already used to that, but it's gonna be painful, none-the-less.

It is you who are mistaken...about a great many things.

[swardboy]

What about the verses after that?

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Since Peter's sermon in Acts 2 was the first proclamation of the good news of Jesus Christ, and since over 3,000 were baptized upon hearing it for the first time, I believe Peter used the "keys to the kingdom", unlocking the mystery of salvation by proclaiming the gospel. Obviously he didn't have exclusive use of the keys to the kingdom, as many diffferent people proclaimed it in the book of Acts, but Peter was privileged to be the first recorded preacher of salvation through Jesus....who was the point of his sermon: 1) Jesus is the Christ, the son of God, 2) You all are guilty of killing the son of God! 3) God is &^ssed at you!!!! Acts 2:37 "What shall we do?" And Peter said "Repent and be baptized every one of you, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, and you shall receive the forgiveness of sin and the gift of the Holy Spirit."

[Scott D]

oh yeah, let's compare churches to banging models.
nice.

even better is that those aren't just churches per say. All of them at one time or another were virtual cities at their time. Some of them got sacked, some of them more than one or two times as rivaling factions took control of certain areas.

The stories behind the ruins are pretty intriguing and gave heavy insight into the politics of the British Isles over the past 1500 years.

sweetheartsoooner I miss you ;)

swardboy, you doth protest too venomously on this subject me thinks. Are you an ebil lutheran like royalfan and hamhock? ;)