Duke Boys CAUGHT!

[Mixer!]

...by the PC crowd. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070319/ap_en_tv/dukes_of_hazzard_orchestra)


I guess the General Lee really was the star of the show.
:pop:

[olevetonahill]

That just sucks .
I hate the PC police .
Next time Im called a honky Im suing !

[batonrougesooner]

What was racist about that show?

[SicEmBaylor]

G-damned I'd like to shove my foot up their ***.

[def_lazer_fc]

i'd say i care, but that would be overstating it.

[Jerk]

PC police will be the first to hang on the lamp-posts.

[soonerjoker]

this from the town that had jerry springer for mayor ?????

[mdklatt]

What was racist about that show?

Exactly. Unlike a state flag, I don't see how there can be any racial/emotional baggage attached to a car in a TV show.

[sanantoniosooner]

Actually those guys should be blacklisted just because the show was stupid.

[MamaMia]

Those people are just being ridiculous. I never really thought of the confederate flag as a we are racists thing, but more of a we are southerners thing.

[mdklatt]

Those people are just being ridiculous. I never really thought of the confederate flag as a we are racists thing, but more of a we are southerners thing.

But you've never been on the wrong end of "Southern Pride", either. I can see why people have a problem with flags that have the confederate emblem on it. The Murrah Bombing is part of our identity, but do we want to see a reminder of it flying above the Capitol?

[usmc-sooner]

But you've never been on the wrong end of "Southern Pride", either. I can see why people have a problem with flags that have the confederate emblem on it. The Murrah Bombing is part of our identity, but do we want to see a reminder of it flying above the Capitol?

you're not talking about Southern Pride, you're talking about racism. Unless you also refer to a black kid beating up a white kid as "black pride"

[yermom]

Actually those guys should be blacklisted just because the show was stupid.

you are treading on thin ice now :mad:

[mdklatt]

you're not talking about Southern Pride, you're talking about racism.

The prevailing perception as the two are inextricably linked, and that's not going to change for a long time.

[usmc-sooner]

The prevailing perception as the two are inextricably linked, and that's not going to change for a long time.

so by your logic any crime or wrong doing a black person commits against a white person can be labeled as "black pride". :rolleyes:

I can't begin to tell you how stupid that is.

[mdklatt]

so by your logic any crime or wrong doing a black person commits against a white person can be labeled as "black pride". :rolleyes:



Does hundreds of years of Southern history involve black people owning white people?

[MamaMia]

But you've never been on the wrong end of "Southern Pride", either. I can see why people have a problem with flags that have the confederate emblem on it. The Murrah Bombing is part of our identity, but do we want to see a reminder of it flying above the Capitol? I'll bet you believe that the civil war was all about slavery too, huh?

[JohnnyMack]

Actually those guys should be blacklisted just because the show was stupid.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif

[mdklatt]

I'll bet you believe that the civil war was all about slavery too, huh?

I really don't give a **** about the Civil War, to tell you to truth. It always bored me to tears in history class. However, to think that it has nothing to do with slavery seems beyond naive to me. Was WW II all about Nazis? Nope, but at least the Germans recognize that it's a touchy subject.

I am the first person to say that in today's America, areas outside of the South are just as racist and segregated (and even more so, in my limited experience). However, I can't speak to what it's like to be black in the South or anywhere else. I didn't grow up learning about how the dominant race in this country owned my race at one point. I don't know what kind of feelings seeing a Confederate flag or hearing the "N word" arouse. But seeing as what a horrible and disgraceful time in our history that was, I'm willing to give black people the benefit of the doubt on this one.

And as you'll see in my first post in this thread, I think banning Tom Wopat and John Schnieder from the Cincinnati orchestra is silly.

[Desert Sapper]

The stars and bars should stand for the noble ideals of States Rights and limited Federal Government, and should be the universal symbol of southern pride. Unfortunately, that is not the reality. Nathan Bedford Forrest and his band of white robed hooligans took it as their symbol and it will forever be inextricably linked to them. This is very much the same thing as the swastika, which was an ancient religious symbol of the Hindus (and still is) and stood universally as a symbol of good luck. That is, until it was perverted by a group of Nationalists in Germany in the 1920s. It, like the stars and bars, now has an inextricable negative history associated with it. I would like to say that the flag on the General Lee shouldn't offend anyone, but I know that is untrue. I disagree that the show itself is racist, but I can certainly see the position of the NAACP, much as I disagree with it.

[Flagstaffsooner]

I'll bet you believe that the civil war was all about slavery too, huh?YMSSA

[BigRedJed]

This probably has something to do with Cinci's RECENT race-relations issues. Somebody at the Pops probably was afraid the concert hall would be burned to the ground. Cincinnati has, arguably, the worst race relations of any major city in the U.S.

[usmc-sooner]

Does hundreds of years of Southern history involve black people owning white people?

yeah cause in the history of the world only white southern Americans were slave owners. Do you even think about things or do you just fire out liberal rhetoric?

Every race has been a slave. Black people owned black people as slaves. Africans sold other Africans as slaves, should we ban symbols of Africa.

You need to let go of the victim mentality.

[MamaMia]

I really don't give a **** about the Civil War, to tell you to truth. It always bored me to tears in history class. However, to think that it has nothing to do with slavery seems beyond naive to me. Was WW II all about Nazis? Nope, but at least the Germans recognize that it's a touchy subject.

I think many things must have bored you to tears in history class. :D

Oh and by the way. The Murrah bombing is in no way a part of our identity. It was Timothy McVeighs identity. Our identity was shown in how we came together as a people to overcome it.

[skycat]

The stars and bars should stand for the noble ideals of States Rights and limited Federal Government, and should be the universal symbol of southern pride.

Just because I'm feeling nitpicky, this is the Stars and Bars, the first official flag of the confederacy:

http://www.usflag.org/history/images/starsbars.gif

The thing on top of the General Lee is the Confederate Navy Jack.

[MamaMia]

Just because I'm feeling nitpicky, this is the Stars and Bars, the first official flag of the confederacy:

The thing on top of the General Lee is the Confederate Navy Jack.In that case, I see no more reason to continue this which will not go well, AKA TWWNGW. :P

[mdklatt]

yeah cause in the history of the world only white southern Americans were slave owners.

Umm...irrelevant? Get over it already, Jews. Lots of people have been victims of genocide.

Credit to you, though, for not saying that Ted Kennedy has killed more people than you have ever owned. ;)




Every race has been a slave. Black people owned black people as slaves. Africans sold other Africans as slaves, should we ban symbols of Africa.


We should be maybe a little bit more sympathetic to the races of people that were completely ****ed over by this country in the past. Even if nobody alive today owned slaves, we're all benefactors of it in incalcuable ways. There's a difference between saying "not my fault" and "not my problem".

[mdklatt]

I think many things must have bored you to tears in history class. :D

No argument there.



Oh and by the way. The Murrah bombing is in no way a part of our identity. It was Timothy McVeighs identity. Our identity was shown in how we came together as a people to overcome it.

How are black people supposed to identify with Southern Pride?

[MamaMia]

There's a difference between saying "not my fault" and "not my problem".Exactly what "problem" are you talking about?

[usmc-sooner]

Umm...irrelevant? Get over it already, Jews. Lots of people have been victims of genocide.

Credit to you, though, for not saying that Ted Kennedy has killed more people than you have ever owned. ;)




We should be maybe a little bit more sympathetic to the races of people that were completely ****ed over by this country in the past. Even if nobody alive today owned slaves, we're all benefactors of it in incalcuable ways. There's a difference between saying "not my fault" and "not my problem".

we should all just dwell in the past, I know that's the healthy way to deal with things.

I'll be damned if I sit around feeling guilty for something I didn't do, especially to a group of people who have never been slaves.
Well if were going to judge people based on their races past why not just put the blame on black people since they were the ones who sold a good portion of their own people in the slave trade.

I see where you slept through your history classes. I think you slept through some science classes as well.

[mdklatt]

Exactly what "problem" are you talking about?

Racial relations.

[usmc-sooner]

No argument there.



How are black people supposed to identify with Southern Pride?

They have their Southern Pride in rap communities like the "dirty dirty" how are white people supposed to identify with this "Southern Pride"?

[mdklatt]

we should all just dwell in the past, I know that's the healthy way to deal with things.

You mean like waving the Confederate Flag?



I'll be damned if I sit around feeling guilty for something I didn't do, especially to a group of people who have never been slaves.


Do you have maybe an ounce of empathy, buried down somewhere? Can you maybe put yourself in the shoes of somebody else for a just a little bit?




I think you slept through some science classes as well.

I might just spek you for making me LMAO...nah.

[mdklatt]

how are white people supposed to identify with this "Southern Pride"?

How about quit living in the past? The Civil War is over. Fly the US flag.

Why do you hate America?

[Desert Sapper]

Just because I'm feeling nitpicky, this is the Stars and Bars, the first official flag of the confederacy:

http://www.usflag.org/history/images/starsbars.gif

The thing on top of the General Lee is the Confederate Navy Jack.

Thank you. I stand corrected. I've always incorrectly referred to the Navy Jack as the Stars and Bars. Funny how Georgia dropped the Confederate Battle Flag (a square version of the Navy Jack), mostly due to efforts of the NAACP, and adopted something strikingly similar to the Stars and Bars.

Confederate Flags (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America) History

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Georgiaflags.jpg

[yermom]

Umm...irrelevant? Get over it already, Jews. Lots of people have been victims of genocide.

Credit to you, though, for not saying that Ted Kennedy has killed more people than you have ever owned. ;)




We should be maybe a little bit more sympathetic to the races of people that were completely ****ed over by this country in the past. Even if nobody alive today owned slaves, we're all benefactors of it in incalcuable ways. There's a difference between saying "not my fault" and "not my problem".

you're right. i wonder if they want to open casinos?

[royalfan5]

I went as one of the substitute Duke Cousins to a costume party one.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm highly offended by those highly offended by the Confederate flag and their narrow-closed mindedness that doesn't allow for the possibility that the flag, in truth, stands for the nobility of the southern people, limited government and states rights', and pride in our forefathers who fought and gave their lives for those rights.

To be blunt and honest, everyone is entitled to preserve their history in whatever way they want. I don't exactly expect the black community to embrace the flag, but at the same time that's their community not mine. I have a hard enough time worrying about myself much less giving a **** about a group of people that use the symbol more as political leverage than being genuinely offended.

[usmc-sooner]

How about quit living in the past? The Civil War is over. Fly the US flag.

Why do you hate America?

One of these days you're going to understand, and get the point I was trying to make, but for right now it's so far over your head, I'm not going to repost what I said or how what you've replied is just utter nonsense.

[sanantoniosooner]

It always amuses me when people who DIDN'T get the shaft tell the others to "get over it"

[mdklatt]

I don't exactly expect the black community to embrace the flag, but at the same time that's their community not mine.

What about state flags? That's really the only issue I have. If anybody wants to fly the Confederate flag on their house, or sew it to the *** of their jeans, good on 'em. The flag of South Carolina, or Georgia, or wherever is supposed to represent everybody in that state. If a flag is offensive to half the people that live in that state, what good is it?

[Widescreen]

Let's say the slavery thing never happened. Would the present day slave descendants be better off living in Africa or where they are now? Given the current state of Africa, I would wager that almost everyone is better off here so there is actually good fortune for them personally (doesn't apply to their slave ancestors of course).

Secondly, because of the positive influence of the original civil rights movement, people can generally accomplish what they want to in America regardless of their race, as long as they're willing to work hard. Does racism still exist? Of course - and it always will. But the racism actually goes both ways and people tend to forget that. They key is to not let that be an excuse. Work and be persistent and you can overcome most of that. My biggest problem with the current civil rights leadership is that they run around telling everyone that they can't accomplish anything on their own. THE BIG LIE! Bill Cosby does his best to wake people up to this lie but I'm not sure how much affect it's having.

[StoopTroup]

I always thought the Civil War was over Daisy Duke.

http://www.championship_606.ursatech.com/images/DaisyDuke.jpghttp://catherinebach.com/images/catherine%20white%20top%20gen%20lee.jpg

[mdklatt]

Let's say the slavery thing never happened. Would the present day slave descendants be better off living in Africa or where they are now? Given the current state of Africa, I would wager that almost everyone is better off here so there is actually good fortune for them personally (doesn't apply to their slave ancestors of course).


That's really hard to say. What if instead of enslaving them ourselves, we put a stop to slavery in Africa through military invention. Would they better off? What if Africans had immigrated to the US as freemen like most Europeans did? Would they have been integrated into society a lot faster? Or would they still face the same racism? Did racism against Africans evolve as a justification for slavery, or did slavery come as a natural consequence of the racism?

In any case, I don't think we can look to the black community and say, "A 'thank you' would be nice." It doesn't matter if they're better off than they would have been, it matters if they're not as well off as everybody else. Fairness is a core American value.



Secondly, because of the positive influence of the original civil rights movement, people can generally accomplish what they want to in America regardless of their race, as long as they're willing to work hard. Does racism still exist? Of course - and it always will.


I think we're at a point where class is what matters, not race (but obviously there is a corrleation). A poor rural white kid is going to face a lot of the same obsatacles as somebody who grew up in Compton. On the other hand, Michael Jordan's kids aren't going to have any problem getting into college and succeeding in life.


But the racism actually goes both ways and people tend to forget that. They key is to not let that be an excuse. Work and be persistent and you can overcome most of that. My biggest problem with the current civil rights leadership is that they run around telling everyone that they can't accomplish anything on their own. THE BIG LIE! Bill Cosby does his best to wake people up to this lie but I'm not sure how much affect it's having.

I remember reading a book in my Policital Science class written by a famous black advocate of doing away with all racial preferences because he thought they were doing more harm than good. I forget his name. I think he ran for president not too long ago.

[yermom]

maybe Bill Cosby should run :P

[mdklatt]

maybe Bill Cosby should run :P

Hell, I'd vote for him over any of the other ****wits involved*.

How awesome would it be if he brought out "Mortimer" to sign bills? :D


*Maybe not Osama. I have no idea how much of a ****wit he is yet.

[yermom]

heh.

i probably would too...

[usmc-sooner]

It always amuses me when people who DIDN'T get the shaft tell the others to "get over it"

I know I'm a heartless bastard. Why just last week I told this black guy down the street who was once a slave he should just get over it. I think he was freed last week and still whining about it.

[SoonerBorn68]

It always amuses me when people who DIDN'T get the shaft tell the others to "get over it"

http://www.vanderzande.com/1971/shaft.jpg

:confused:

[mdklatt]

http://www.vanderzande.com/1971/shaft.jpg

:confused:

Is that Shaft or "Lamont" from Sanford and Son?

[SicEmBaylor]

It always amuses me when people who DIDN'T get the shaft tell the others to "get over it"

By shaft, are you referring to the shaft of forced servitude of slavery that was ended almost 150 years ago or the shaft received from an invading army that targeted the destruction of civilian homes, the southern infrastructure, and taking away the south's right to freely choose their own government which are all effects that we are still dealing with today?

I think the southern people of all colors got shafted in some way or another.

[mdklatt]

or the shaft received from an invading army that targeted the destruction of civilian homes, the southern infrastructure,


Honest question: Did the federal government contribute to the reconstruction of the South? For that matter, did the South have to pay any reparations?



which are all effects that we are still dealing with today


Which effects?

[royalfan5]

Which effects?
That States-Righters and Baylor students don't get taken seriously by society.

[mdklatt]

That States-Righters and Baylor students don't get taken seriously by society.

I don't have a problem with states' rights, it's just kind of hard to overlook that one of the rights the southern states wanted was the right to own slaves.

Borrowing from Widescreen's thought above, didn't the outcome of the Civil War end up as a net positive for the South? How prosperous would a slave-owning agrarian country have been? Would the US have invaded the Confederacy at some point in the future as part of Manifest Destiny? Would Mexico have tried to take back Texas?

[Hamhock]

I remember reading a book in my Policital Science class written by a famous black advocate of doing away with all racial preferences because he thought they were doing more harm than good. I forget his name. I think he ran for president not too long ago.

alan keyes?

[mdklatt]

alan keyes?

That's not the author I was thinking of, but maybe that's the presidential guy I was thinking of. He said a lot of the same things.

Plus, they all look alike to me. :eek:

[Widescreen]

That's really hard to say. What if instead of enslaving them ourselves, we put a stop to slavery in Africa through military invention. Would they better off? What if Africans had immigrated to the US as freemen like most Europeans did? Would they have been integrated into society a lot faster? Or would they still face the same racism? Did racism against Africans evolve as a justification for slavery, or did slavery come as a natural consequence of the racism?
Interesting questions, all. My ancestors were primarily Irish and they were heavily discriminated against when they got here - particularly in terms of employment and housing (e.g. WE DON'T HIRE IRISH!) I suspect that it would've been much the same for Africans. And actually I don't think slavery and racism were initially linked. I think the initial reason was economic - for free/nearly free labor. The racism part came when whitey viewed them as less than a person. I'm sure that happened rather quickly though.


In any case, I don't think we can look to the black community and say, "A 'thank you' would be nice." It doesn't matter if they're better off than they would have been, it matters if they're not as well off as everybody else. Fairness is a core American value.
I'm not advocating anyone say "Thank you". I'm simply positing that much of the personal failures attributed to racism have other causes and that, IMO, things would've been far worse for them in modern Africa. And fairness may be a core value but it's not a right. There's a big difference. People tend to attribute things to the constitution/bill of rights that aren't there. For example, you'd thing there was a right to never be offended. I'm glad that's the case or I'd never have any fun. ;)


I think we're at a point where class is what matters, not race (but obviously there is a corrleation). A poor rural white kid is going to face a lot of the same obsatacles as somebody who grew up in Compton. On the other hand, Michael Jordan's kids aren't going to have any problem getting into college and succeeding in life.
Agreed.