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View Full Version : Darn, Duke failed to make the Sweet 16...



Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:03 PM
...breaks my heart...

OSUAggie
3/15/2007, 11:12 PM
Is Duke basketball hated by more people than Notre Dame football?

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:14 PM
Is Duke basketball hated by more people than Notre Dame football?

I don't think so...

SoonerDood
3/15/2007, 11:16 PM
don't feel too sorry for them. the last time Duke hit a lull, they went out and got Brand, Battier, Will Avery one year. followed by Magette. Then they landed Jay Williams, Dunleavy, and Boozer. Something tells me Duke will be OK.

TopDawg
3/15/2007, 11:18 PM
They're a victim of their own success. They've had too many players leave too early for too long. It's catching up to them.

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:19 PM
They're a victim of their own success. They've had too many players leave too early for too long. It's catching up to them.

Who cares, I am glad they lost...

OSUAggie
3/15/2007, 11:21 PM
Too many white guys this year for Puke. They're really slow on the perimeter, as well.

UConn is who really got nailed by the people leaving early and having it catch up to you.

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:21 PM
Too many white guys this year for Puke. They're really slow on the perimeter, as well.

UConn is who really got nailed by the people leaving early and having it catch up to you.

Hey, white guys are making a comeback...

TopDawg
3/15/2007, 11:25 PM
Who cares, I am glad they lost...

Who cares, I like talking about basketball...

goingoneight
3/15/2007, 11:26 PM
If you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a Du... wait a minute. :D

TopDawg
3/15/2007, 11:26 PM
Too many white guys this year for Puke. They're really slow on the perimeter, as well.

UConn is who really got nailed by the people leaving early and having it catch up to you.


It's not like there's only one team it can happen to.

I bet this team is pretty good next year with most of the same players.

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:27 PM
It's not like there's only one team it can happen to.

I bet this team is pretty good next year with most of the same players.

Don't go out on a limb...

John Kochtoston
3/15/2007, 11:29 PM
Is Duke basketball hated by more people than Notre Dame football?

Maybe the most intellegent, thought-provoking question ever asked by an aggie. :D

TopDawg
3/15/2007, 11:31 PM
Don't go out on a limb...

I'm sorry, we were trying to talk basketball over here.

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:33 PM
I'm sorry, we were trying to talk basketball over here.

Sorry we are not at your level, Digger....

SleestakSooner
3/15/2007, 11:35 PM
It's not like there's only one team it can happen to.

I bet this team is pretty good next year with most of the same players.

I don't believe Duke will be worth a **** as long as they have Paulus as their PG.

OSUAggie
3/15/2007, 11:37 PM
It's not like there's only one team it can happen to.

I bet this team is pretty good next year with most of the same players.

Obviously they'll still be pretty good next year, they were pretty good this year... It's just that when you're Duke and Virginia Commonwealth has better athletes outside than you, something ain't right.


I don't believe Duke will be worth a **** as long as they have Paulus as their PG.

Agreed.

SleestakSooner
3/15/2007, 11:40 PM
Agreed.

This isn't happening... THIS ISN'T HAPPENING!" :stunned:

Katherine
3/15/2007, 11:49 PM
Is Duke basketball hated by more people than Notre Dame football?

is that even possible? lol

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:52 PM
ND football > Duke b-ball

TopDawg
3/15/2007, 11:55 PM
Obviously they'll still be pretty good next year, they were pretty good this year... It's just that when you're Duke and Virginia Commonwealth has better athletes outside than you, something ain't right.


If you look at Duke's most successful post-season teams, I think you'll find that they're not stacked with great athletes. Coach K's best post-season teams have had one or two athletes, a smart point guard and great role players. But mostly, they're great Coach K players. They know his game and they play it well because they've been there for a while.

But lately, as he's gotten more "athletes," his post-season success has been more sporadic because those athletes make the leap to the NBA more quickly than they did before (of course, this is a nation-wide trend as well, but Duke is one of the programs that suffers most from it) and there's not as much chemistry. And, like Dood said before, it makes things kinda cyclical. They'll have a few down years and then spring back.

When I said "pretty good" I was intentionally understating it. By "pretty good" I meant that I think they'll return to their previous form next year. When was the last time you couldn't name ANY juniors or seniors for Duke? Can you name one this year? Here they are: DeMarcus Nelson and Joe Pagliuca. Are you kidding me?

This is a very young team. Paulus will improve (and they need him to improve a lot) but as they continue on through the Coach K system, this team will become much stronger. As they do, they'll be able to get past teams that "out-athlete" them.

TopDawg
3/15/2007, 11:56 PM
Sorry we are not at your level, Digger....

WE?

These other people are. That's why I was talking with them. ;)

Soonerus
3/15/2007, 11:59 PM
WE?

These other people are. That's why I was talking with them. ;)

I respect your basketball knowledge so I am not going to argue with you...I think we basically see eye to eye...

SleestakSooner
3/16/2007, 12:00 AM
If you look at Duke's most successful post-season teams, I think you'll find that they're not stacked with great athletes. Coach K's best post-season teams have had one or two athletes, a smart point guard and great role players. But mostly, they're great Coach K players. They know his game and they play it well because they've been there for a while.

But lately, as he's gotten more "athletes," his post-season success has been more sporadic because those athletes make the leap to the NBA more quickly than they did before (of course, this is a nation-wide trend as well, but Duke is one of the programs that suffers most from it) and there's not as much chemistry. And, like Dood said before, it makes things kinda cyclical. They'll have a few down years and then spring back.

When I said "pretty good" I was intentionally understating it. By "pretty good" I meant that I think they'll return to their previous form next year. When was the last time you couldn't name ANY juniors or seniors for Duke? Can you name one this year? Here they are: DeMarcus Nelson and Joe Pagliuca. Are you kidding me?

This is a very young team. Paulus will improve (and they need him to improve a lot) but as they continue on through the Coach K system, this team will become much stronger. As they do, they'll be able to get past teams that "out-athlete" them.

I agree with most everything you have said, but Paulus won't improve enough to be a difference maker. I am willing to bet he is splitting time next season if he is not benched for an incoming freshman sensation. Paulus is really the most overrated point guard I have ever seen play for an elite program like Duke.

TopDawg
3/16/2007, 12:06 AM
Paulus is really the most overrated point guard I have ever seen play for an elite program like Duke.

Definitely. It's kinda strange to see a PG struggle so much under Coach K. If he were bigger, he'd be a great 2-guard for Duke who could run the point when the true point needed a break.

But his biggest problem is that he just needs to play smarter. I think that's something Coach K can teach him. And it'll help when his supporting cast is older and better as well.

But if not, I'm sure Coach K will get someone else in there to run things.

Soonerus
3/16/2007, 12:08 AM
Duke has the same problem a lot of programs are starting to have, they may only have a player for 2 years max....

SleestakSooner
3/16/2007, 12:08 AM
All I know is if Capel were still running the point for Duke today that final shot would have at least caught some iron. ;)

TopDawg
3/16/2007, 12:09 AM
I respect your basketball knowledge so I am not going to argue with you...I think we basically see eye to eye...

I'm just giving you a hard time. If it sounds like I snapped at ya I'm just a bit miffed because I had to watch my perfect bracket fall apart this evening.

I actually kinda like Duke and picked them in my bracket, but I was pulling for VCU tonight because of Capel.

I didn't mean to take away from your enjoyment of a hated team's loss...I love it just as much as the next guy...but I was just trying to talk some bball.

TopDawg
3/16/2007, 12:10 AM
All I know is if Capel were still running the point for Duke today that final shot would have at least caught some iron. ;)

Heh.

If Capel were running point, they would've won by double digits.

Soonerus
3/16/2007, 12:12 AM
I really do not hate Duke, I have great respect for their program...I did have VCU in both of my brackets tho'....

OSUAggie
3/16/2007, 12:26 AM
If you look at Duke's most successful post-season teams, I think you'll find that they're not stacked with great athletes. Coach K's best post-season teams have had one or two athletes, a smart point guard and great role players. But mostly, they're great Coach K players. They know his game and they play it well because they've been there for a while.

All right... The '86-'94 period probably fits this mold most appropriately. However, the game was a lot different 20 years ago and there were certainly some really athletic (by athletic, I mostly mean quick, or have the ability to appear to be on the same level as their opponent as far as keeping up with them, which is basically the opposite of how they look with Paulus, Nelson and Scheyer) players on those teams on the outside: Dawkins, Amaker, Hill, Hurley, Lang, et al.

Post-illness, his best period was from '98-'05, and those teams were full of great, great athletes (McLeod, Carrawell, Battier, James, Jay, Duhon, Ewing, Dahntay, etc) that simply ran by most people. Their guard play was exceptional, and they would mix in a "shooter" with a couple of athletes on the perimeter (Langdon, Redick, Horvath, whomever)...

I do agree that their best teams have had exceptional PG play, which is most evident by looking at their PG for the 3 championships.


But lately, as he's gotten more "athletes," his post-season success has been more sporadic because those athletes make the leap to the NBA more quickly than they did before (of course, this is a nation-wide trend as well, but Duke is one of the programs that suffers most from it) and there's not as much chemistry. And, like Dood said before, it makes things kinda cyclical. They'll have a few down years and then spring back.

9 straight sweet 16's was a pretty damn consistent # until a couple of hours ago, but I understand your point in regards to meeting expectations...


This is a very young team. Paulus will improve (and they need him to improve a lot) but as they continue on through the Coach K system, this team will become much stronger. As they do, they'll be able to get past teams that "out-athlete" them.

You may be right, but I just don't see the same talent on the perimeter with this bunch as they've had in the past, and I think that's why they got beat tonight. Paulus isn't intentionally stupid with the ball, he just can't keep up with his opponents, I don't think. Nolan Smith should help next year, but I don't know if it will be enough to get much further than they went this year.

Soonerus
3/16/2007, 12:29 AM
Coack K is losing institution control....

OSUAggie
3/16/2007, 12:31 AM
I really do not hate Duke, I have great respect for their program...I did have VCU in both of my brackets tho'....

I hate Duke more than I hate OU. I think they play dirty and force refs to make a call by flopping all over the place. With Krzywuski constantly riding the asses of any striped shirt that walks by, they typically get the call. They also patented the jump out of bounds and call time out play, which is my most hated play in basketball. And it wasn't a moving screen on Robisch in '98. ****ers.

Soonerus
3/16/2007, 12:34 AM
How the hell did OSU lose to Marist ???

OSUAggie
3/16/2007, 12:35 AM
When you have a team that already doesn't give a **** and put them in the NIT against a team called Marist that shoots lights out in the first half, it'll happen. Sean should've turned down the bid and cut his losses so people wouldn't have to watch the Boggan/Monds show 1 more time.

Soonerus
3/16/2007, 12:37 AM
Do you think Sean is a keeper ???

OSUAggie
3/16/2007, 12:42 AM
I think about as much as Sean right now as I thought of Mike after '05. I feel a lot better about Mike right now than I did at that point, and hopefully the same can be said about Sean a year from today.

I guess I need to see more before I can answer that, but I do think he has the ability to get it done.

He did go up a notch or two in my book with his comments after the Marist game.

BigRedJed
3/16/2007, 12:54 AM
Which were what? "I want my daddy?"

OSUAggie
3/16/2007, 12:59 AM
Head Coach Sean Sutton
On the game
“In that game, there was one team that wanted to play and that cared about this tournament, while one team had a few guys that would rather be on spring break.

“I knew they were disappointed (after the Big 12 Tournament), but I expected a much better effort tonight. I said I was going to play the guys that the game meant the most to and I probably waited too long on a few guys.”

On Marist
“Marist deserved to win. They played with passion. They were having fun. They passed the ball around. They executed and they out-hustled us to rebounds. How do you out-rebound Texas A&M and Texas then get beat (on the boards) by 15? Effort. Anybody that saw us play in the Ford Center saw us hold Nebraska to 19 points in the first half, Texas A&M to 28, and Texas to 31. This team comes in and has 37 in the first half. They deserved to win. They played better and this game seemed a lot more important to their guys.”

On the future of Cowboy basketball
“I think we will a lot better seasons in the future. I love the players that we have coming in. They are high-character, high-class kids. They are going to buy into this system. They are going to appreciate what it means to play at Oklahoma State. They are going to appreciate the tradition of this program. This group, as much as we talked about, just never appreciated what it meant to play here. It is an honor and a privilege to play at Oklahoma State. We will get out of this. Believe me. We made a few mistakes in recruiting. We misjudged some things, but I am very confident in the players that we have coming back and the players that we have coming in. They are going to be our types of players, and that is, kids with high character.”

birddog
3/16/2007, 01:09 AM
damn, he didn't mince any words concerning former palyers.

Big Red Ron
3/16/2007, 01:34 AM
2006-07 the season that OU/Duke/Syracuse/Kentucky were all down.

:D

TopDawg
3/16/2007, 09:53 AM
Good points, Aggie.


You may be right, but I just don't see the same talent on the perimeter with this bunch as they've had in the past, and I think that's why they got beat tonight. Paulus isn't intentionally stupid with the ball, he just can't keep up with his opponents, I don't think. Nolan Smith should help next year, but I don't know if it will be enough to get much further than they went this year.

I don't think Paulus is intentionally stupid with the ball, either. But he tries to do too much, and THAT isn't smart. Part of it is his youth and part of it is that (he probably feels like) Duke NEEDS him to do those things because they lack the strong supporting cast.

BigRedJed
3/16/2007, 09:53 AM
damn, he didn't mince any words concerning former palyers.
Well, he had to blame somebody for the egg they laid against FRICKING MARIST in the "vaunted" GIA. Ripping on the guys who've left the room is the easiest thing to do.

SleestakSooner
3/16/2007, 01:13 PM
Well, he had to blame somebody for the egg they laid against FRICKING MARIST in the "vaunted" GIA. Ripping on the guys who've left the room is the easiest thing to do.

Boggan's agent is probably trying to think of a way to sue Sutton's pants off at this moment.

Way to throw your senior class under the bus there coach. I am sure the incoming class and the returning players will have a world of confidence in you! Bottom line is it is your job to motivate your players. If they didn't respect the "Aggie tradition" or feel compelled to play hard for the Pokes at GIA it is on the guy coaching them and not the fault of the guys actually out there playing the game.

I give him one more year then he is a goner. :pop: