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View Full Version : Picking Oklahoma's carcass proves to be nourishing



colleyvillesooner
3/13/2007, 03:22 PM
ouch.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10058201



Picking Oklahoma's carcass proves to be nourishing
March 13, 2007
By Gregg Doyel
CBS SportsLine.com National Columnist
Tell Gregg your opinion!




The mushroom cloud continues to rise over Norman, Okla., where the Oklahoma Sooners were left out of the NCAA Tournament, the NIT and a juco invitational next month in Kansas.

This time last year, the Sooners were coming off a ninth consecutive 20-win season. They had one of the top five recruiting classes in the country. They were, as usual, going places.


When you see Scottie Reynolds and Kelvin Sampson in the West Regional, think about Oklahoma. (US Presswire)
Into the dumper, as it turns out.

If you think I'm happy about it, you're wrong. Oklahoma doesn't deserve to fall off college basketball's cliff. But after going 16-15 this season and losing two of its top three scorers, OU must rebuild around next year's solid, not sensational, freshmen. It doesn't look good.

But the possible death of Oklahoma basketball has given life to three other schools, each of which made it into the 2007 NCAA Tournament with help from OU refugees. Indiana and Villanova, specifically, should split their tournament proceeds with Oklahoma, which has become college hoops' jelly-of-the-month club -- the gift that keeps on giving, the whole year.

To Indiana, OU basketball gave coach Kelvin Sampson. While at Oklahoma he racked up record numbers of wins and cell phone minutes, numbers that are related. He parlayed his advanced work ethic, as he liked to call his remorseless cheating, into relationships with high school kids who chose to play for the Sooners and their telephonically gifted coach.

Sampson probably would have left for Indiana regardless, but with NCAA investigators closing in, Sampson couldn't flee that sinking ship fast enough. What was Indiana thinking? Indiana was thinking about the bottom line -- wins and losses -- and Sampson has delivered. The Hoosiers do not have NCAA Tournament talent, but they have an NCAA Tournament team, and a No. 7-seeded team at that. That is all Sampson. He's a great coach. A cheater and a liar and a hypocrite. But a great coach.

To Villanova, OU basketball gave Scottie Reynolds. He's the McDonald's All-American guard who signed with the Sooners but was released from his scholarship when Sampson took the Indiana job.

Reynolds is possibly the most dynamic player in the Big East, and definitely the reason Villanova scraped into the NCAA Tournament at 22-10. The Wildcats lost guards Randy Foye, Allan Ray and Kyle Lowry to the NBA and didn't adequately replace them on the recruiting trail. After winning 52 games and reaching the 2005 Sweet 16 and the 2006 Elite Eight, Villanova was going to crash in 2007. It's Newton's law of gravity.

But then came Oklahoma's law of cavity: If it falls out of our decaying program, you can have it. And the next thing you know, Villanova lucked into one of the best point guards in the country. Reynolds averaged 14.5 points and 4.1 assists, and by late February had figured out how to take over games. The Wildcats were 18-9 and squarely on the NCAA/NIT bubble when Reynolds went off, averaging 29 points over four straight victories to get Villanova into the 65-team field.

Thank you, Oklahoma.

Texas also sends along its gratitude. The Longhorns don't owe their entire season to an Oklahoma refugee -- Texas owes that to Kevin Durant -- but the Longhorns wouldn't be the NCAA championship threat they have become without power forward Damion James. He averages 7.9 points and 7.4 rebounds, and is second only to Durant among Big 12 freshmen with four double-doubles.

James was another member of Sampson's final recruiting class who asked to leave when the coach bolted for Indiana. The thing is, Oklahoma could have said no. Oklahoma could have told James that he had signed his national letter of intent with "Oklahoma," not with "Kelvin Sampson," and that unless he had the money to pay his way for a year at another school, he was stuck with the Sooners.

In a matter of weeks, Oklahoma had seen its entire program come crashing down. The NCAA was looking at blatant cheating. The coach left for Indiana. His best three recruits -- Reynolds, James and Jeremy Mayfield -- asked to be set free. Mayfield didn't lead UAB into the NCAA Tournament, but the Sooners could have used his 6-10, 240-pound presence and his 4.5 ppg and 4.1 rpg.

The Sooners could have used Mayfield. They could've used James and Reynolds. They could have lashed out at any or all of them. It wouldn't have been the right thing to do, but Sampson has carved out a nice career for himself proving to the OU administration that "the right thing to do" isn't the best way to get ahead in college basketball.

But the Sooners did the right thing. They rolled over. They played dead. They hired Jeff Capel and they released everyone who wanted to be released and they went 16-15 and they are finished this college basketball season while 97 teams continue to play.

So go ahead and watch Sampson lead Indiana and Reynolds lead Villanova in the West Regional. Watch Texas try to ride Durant, with plenty of help from James, out of the East Regional and on to the national championship.

Just don't forget the school that made it all possible. Don't forget the poor bastards left behind at Oklahoma.

garland sooner
3/13/2007, 03:27 PM
yeah. It's retarded that when you do sign a letter of intent, you want to leave when the coach leaves.

yermom
3/13/2007, 03:52 PM
that whole thing really torques me off

how do you go to Texas? i mean that is a slap in the face.

Rhino
3/13/2007, 03:53 PM
Sampson probably would have left for Indiana regardless, but with NCAA investigators closing in, Sampson couldn't flee that sinking ship fast enough. What was Indiana thinking? Indiana was thinking about the bottom line -- wins and losses -- and Sampson has delivered. The Hoosiers do not have NCAA Tournament talent, but they have an NCAA Tournament team, and a No. 7-seeded team at that. That is all Sampson. He's a great coach. A cheater and a liar and a hypocrite. But a great coach. Ouch.

Scott D
3/13/2007, 03:56 PM
gee all the guy forgot to do was find a way to mention what Drew Lavender and Lawrence McKenzie are doing now ;)

colleyvillesooner
3/13/2007, 04:04 PM
http://colleyvillesooner.com/stuff/BigMad.jpg

Big Red Ron
3/13/2007, 04:14 PM
Don't forget the poor bastards left behind at Oklahoma.

This is why we have had all the Calvin Simpson threads. We didn't do anything wrong, Sampson did.

I can only hope that Capel can pick up a PG half as good as Reynolds.

CtheB
3/13/2007, 04:21 PM
This is going to be bliss for the Calvin bashers, and ridiculous to the Kelvin lovers.

I think the article has a lot of truth with a lot of edge. It may not be the best or truthful representation of Sampson, but without a doubt, it is a good representation of OU basketball, its administration, and its new coach.

For that, I have to give the article a thumbs up.

IronSooner
3/13/2007, 04:27 PM
**** off dip**** [Doyel].

stoopified
3/13/2007, 05:02 PM
I do take issue with ONE thing the article said however,that being that OU basketball is dead.He says that we have to rebuild arond a good but not great freshman class and I say ,SO WHAT? OU basketball was built on good but not great recruiting classes.IN the combined 26 years of the Sampson -Tubbs eras we had a total of 3 McDonald-Parade All-American type players(Tubbs-Jeff Webster,Wayman Tisdale/Sampson -Ryan Humphrey)but somehow managed to win612 games in that spanagainst 241 losses, had 2 FINAL FOUR teams,4 SWEET 16,and 2 ELITE 8 teams.

With Blake Griffin's arrival we have a 4th McDonalds-Parade All-American type player and ALL other recruits to this point are TOP 150 players.IMHO OU basketball is FAR from dead.I fully expect Capel to have OU back at 20+ wins and at at 9-7 or so in conference.I don't know if that means we are in THE DANCE next year or not but I'm willing to bet by year 3 we ARE DANCING again.Capel has rhe same kind of pedigree that Sampson and Tubbs had when they got here,good coaches from a non powerhose program.He also has something they didn't a father who is in the NBA coaching ranks.That sure can't hurt as an added resource for Jeff.

DO I know that Capel can return us to the Tubbs-Sampson level of excellence eand maybe even beyond? No,but based on what I saw this year I do BELIEVE he can.Rumors of OUR basketball death are greatly exaggerated.

Big Red Ron
3/13/2007, 05:16 PM
To Indiana, OU basketball gave coach Kelvin Sampson. While at Oklahoma he racked up record numbers of wins and cell phone minutes, numbers that are related. He parlayed his advanced work ethic, as he liked to call his remorseless cheating, into relationships with high school kids who chose to play for the Sooners and their telephonically gifted coach.

Man this guy didn't pull any punches.

I really do feel sorry for Sampson. In a serious way, he's damaged his national persona for a long time.

It is kind of interesting that Sampson and Sutton, Sr. had such a similar style and now Kelvin has that, "Yeah but he was a cheater." tag on him like Sutton too.

Both he and Eddie are great coaches but people don't respect them as much as other coaches.

Collier11
3/13/2007, 05:16 PM
I think it was a fair and honest article. For all kelvin Sampson did for OU which I will not deny, he ultimately stuck it straight up our hind parts when he left! This is why it is rediculous that all sanctions dont follow the accused when they are convicted and bolt! We did the right thing in every aspect and Its good to finally see someone credit us for that even if it shows how we dropped off because of it!

bri
3/13/2007, 05:19 PM
Man, it took that article to make me realize that we're pretty much circa-2003 Baylor, sans murder. :(

CtheB
3/13/2007, 05:22 PM
After watching Blake Griffin for the past three years, I can say that he will be a big boost to the offense next year.

He far exceeds solid. He is sensational.

Collier11
3/13/2007, 05:48 PM
After watching Blake Griffin for the past three years, I can say that he will be a big boost to the offense next year.

He far exceeds solid. He is sensational.


So was his brother and we are still waiting on Taylor to become consistent!

CtheB
3/13/2007, 06:07 PM
Collier, I've watched them both extensively. Blake and Taylor are as different as night and day. Blake is significantly better than Taylor offensively at this point in his career.

Big Red Ron
3/13/2007, 07:46 PM
I have read that now, like five times. I think the only thing he left out and that I would have mentioned that the 25 year post season streak ended.

But it's pretty obvious that he thinks the University of Oklahoma did the right thing but that Sampson is the alpha and omega of this firestorm, and I agree 100%.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:27 PM
Man, it took that article to make me realize that we're pretty much circa-2003 Baylor, sans murder. :(
The year's not over!

royalfan5
3/13/2007, 08:30 PM
You could have it worse. You could be Nebraska basketball fans.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:32 PM
Nebraska has basketball?

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:33 PM
Wait a minute. Do they still have football, too?

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:33 PM
Holy cow. I don't think I'm subject to flood control.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:33 PM
Is everyone else still?

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:33 PM
WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:34 PM
Learn something new everyday, I do.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:35 PM
Of course, flood control might be off for everyone and I look like a raving idiot now.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:35 PM
Did I just call myself a name?

royalfan5
3/13/2007, 08:37 PM
Yes, you are special, flood control is on

OKC-SLC
3/13/2007, 08:42 PM
The year's not over!
Heh.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 08:42 PM
YES!!! I knew I took this thankless job for some reason.

bri
3/13/2007, 09:34 PM
wait, they waived flood control for you moddy-come-latelies?

GODDAMMIT!!! :mad:

Rogue
3/13/2007, 09:43 PM
BRJ, you should use your evil mod powers to do something outrageous and at least turn the flood control for "the unwashed" down to about 20 seconds.

colleyvillesooner
3/13/2007, 09:50 PM
wait, they waived flood control for you moddy-come-latelies?

GODDAMMIT!!! :mad:

Can't believe that's not a "****" word

WWJD mods, W.W.J.D.

:D

bri
3/13/2007, 09:54 PM
BRJ, you should use your evil mod powers to do something outrageous and at least turn the flood control for "the unwashed" down to about 20 seconds.

Heh, you're mistaking mods for admins. :D

soonerboomer93
3/13/2007, 11:41 PM
YES!!! I knew I took this thankless job for some reason.

that's it, i'm cancelling my sponsorship unless they turn on flood control for you :mad:


























:pop:

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 11:45 PM
Heehee.

BigRedJed
3/13/2007, 11:45 PM
Heh.

LittleWingSooner
3/13/2007, 11:48 PM
I'm not going to waste an argument on this idiot. Doyel hates OU. It's shocking if he ever posts anything that puts OU in any positive light.

soonerboomer93
3/14/2007, 12:04 AM
Oh, and the article did have some good points.

However, it's time to let it go..

GottaHavePride
3/14/2007, 12:25 AM
Wait, no flood control?

GottaHavePride
3/14/2007, 12:25 AM
I have o see if this works.

GottaHavePride
3/14/2007, 12:25 AM
YES!

GottaHavePride
3/14/2007, 12:26 AM
F'in A!

GottaHavePride
3/14/2007, 12:26 AM
Mother

GottaHavePride
3/14/2007, 12:26 AM
Truckers.

BigRedJed
3/14/2007, 01:45 AM
I'm going to pull my sponsorship until you have flood control again.

yermom
3/14/2007, 02:16 AM
ok, what do i have to do to be a mod? :)

BigRedJed
3/14/2007, 02:19 AM
Call Dean Big Poppa and post pictures of your fancy new pair of heels, on the end of your sexy legs, kicked up on your desktop.

BigRedJed
3/14/2007, 02:21 AM
I so want to merge all of GHP's posts right now.

BigRedJed
3/14/2007, 02:21 AM
Eww. That sounded dirty.

BigRedJed
3/14/2007, 02:22 AM
I'm obviously drunk with power.

Or, just drunk.

Good night, Oklahoma.

william_brasky
3/14/2007, 09:37 AM
Doyel means "used *********" in some other language I'm sure.

SoonerStormchaser
3/14/2007, 09:58 AM
I agree with the article (big surprise there), especially with this point:

The thing is, Oklahoma could have said no. Oklahoma could have told James that he had signed his national letter of intent with "Oklahoma," not with "Kelvin Sampson," and that unless he had the money to pay his way for a year at another school, he was stuck with the Sooners.

They should've been drawn, quartered and then released from their LOI's.

NormanPride
3/14/2007, 10:39 AM
:(

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/14/2007, 03:10 PM
GAY but true

SleestakSooner
3/15/2007, 05:54 AM
This article is the succ, but mostly because it rings way too true. :(

One of the things that upset me the most in the aftermath of Sampson's departure was the "letting go" of the recruits so easily. I do not fault the three players that bolted much for their wanting to leave but I DO want to rip James head from his shoulders and **** down his neck because he left OU for UTerus.:mad:

I don't know if Castiglione or Capel could have done anything to keep any of those defectors from leaving but I do think they should have made damned sure none of them left to join any of OUr conference foes, especially those in the south division! I am sure they could not have held him to his word, but they should have tried to stipulate this before giving them any requested release.

I lost a great deal of respect for Ricky (Don't Lose That Number) Barnes this season. One for swooping in and grabbing James and two after I learned how great a friend Bobby Knight is to him.

I think Capel will have his work cut out in order to get OU back to where they were. The Big XII south is going to be a tough road with the rise of aTm and the other south of the border teams great coaches. At least we will still have OUr little brother to beat up on as long as Mr. Floppy is at the helm here in state.;)

That is all.

LittleWingSooner
3/15/2007, 10:41 AM
There is some truth in the article. But not much. Doyel hates OU and hates Kelvin Sampson, and Bob Stoops, and anything associated with OU. If OU gets into the Tourney next year he'll find something bad to write about Capel.

Big Red Ron
3/15/2007, 10:53 AM
There is some truth in the article. But not much. Doyel hates OU and hates Kelvin Sampson, and Bob Stoops, and anything associated with OU. If OU gets into the Tourney next year he'll find something bad to write about Capel.Either you have reading comprehension problems or you are drunk on the Sampson Kool - Aid.

Scott D
3/15/2007, 11:01 AM
There is some truth in the article. But not much. Doyel hates OU and hates Kelvin Sampson, and Bob Stoops, and anything associated with OU. If OU gets into the Tourney next year he'll find something bad to write about Capel.

oh?

Did Sampson knowingly cheat?

Did Sampson continue to cheat after he knew the NCAA knew he cheated knowingly?

Did Scottie Reynolds have a good season at Villanova?

Was Damion James key in the season Texas had?

Does the fact that those three teams have good seeds go back to the fact that none of those three whom are clearly key to their teams are at Oklahoma, while OU is watching both the NCAA and NIT tournaments on tv?

LittleWingSooner
3/15/2007, 11:55 AM
It wasn't Kelvin's fault that either James or Reynolds left. And I bet every team in the country "cheats" like Kelvin did.

And there's no guarantee that OU has an NCAA or NIT bid with those 2 guys on the roster

LittleWingSooner
3/15/2007, 11:56 AM
Either you have reading comprehension problems or you are drunk on the Sampson Kool - Aid.

Have you read his venom against Bob Stoops in the past? I'm sorry I don't care for anything he writes about OU. It's usually very loosely based on facts.

Big Red Ron
3/15/2007, 12:04 PM
Have you read his venom against Bob Stoops in the past? I'm sorry I don't care for anything he writes about OU. It's usually very loosely based on facts.Well he seemed to find some facts for this one.

CtheB
3/15/2007, 12:20 PM
This article is the succ, but mostly because it rings way too true. :(

One of the things that upset me the most in the aftermath of Sampson's departure was the "letting go" of the recruits so easily. I do not fault the three players that bolted much for their wanting to leave but I DO want to rip James head from his shoulders and **** down his neck because he left OU for UTerus.:mad:

I don't know if Castiglione or Capel could have done anything to keep any of those defectors from leaving but I do think they should have made damned sure none of them left to join any of OUr conference foes, especially those in the south division! I am sure they could not have held him to his word, but they should have tried to stipulate this before giving them any requested release.

I lost a great deal of respect for Ricky (Don't Lose That Number) Barnes this season. One for swooping in and grabbing James and two after I learned how great a friend Bobby Knight is to him.

I think Capel will have his work cut out in order to get OU back to where they were. The Big XII south is going to be a tough road with the rise of aTm and the other south of the border teams great coaches. At least we will still have OUr little brother to beat up on as long as Mr. Floppy is at the helm here in state.;)

That is all.

Great points regarding the "control" over the LOI release.

And contrary to popular belief, there will be good basketball at Oklahoma after Sampson. Just like there was good basketball at Oklahoma before Sampson.

The only difference is that now there are 12 conference teams, as opposed to the 8 when Sampson came to town.

That, and the probation.

LittleWingSooner
3/15/2007, 12:25 PM
The probation is so minor it won't be a factor. We're getting about 5 recruits for the next class and will have 4 or 5 more for the class after that

Scott D
3/15/2007, 12:46 PM
It wasn't Kelvin's fault that either James or Reynolds left. And I bet every team in the country "cheats" like Kelvin did.

And there's no guarantee that OU has an NCAA or NIT bid with those 2 guys on the roster

so you are saying that it is pure coincidence that part of a top 5 recruiting class assembled by Kelvin chose to ask out of their LOI's after he jumped ship to Indiana? Reynolds was 100% OU until Kelvin left, so certainly it couldn't be Kelvin's fault that Reynolds is lighting things up in the Philadelphia area instead of in Norman.

As for the cheating...when the NCAA tells you how and what you are under investigation for, and you continue to do it, hell even increase it. You are either a very bad cheater, or a very arrogant one. He didn't even try to disguise that he was breaking the rules after he knew the hounds were sniffing around, and left a mess for Joe C. to clean up.

As for how James and Reynolds may have contributed....certainly their contributions couldn't have hurt. How much better could Neal's season been with a penetrating guard like Reynolds? How much better could we have been with post defense to support Nate Carter? And we're not even including the 3rd guy who had a decent season as a freshman with his school even though they didn't go dancing.

Lack of depth killed this team this season, those three provide at minimum that depth, at best the contributions they made to their prospective schools this season.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care for pretty much any sportswriter. However, I think his article was spot on in regards to the damage that Kelvin and his former assistant wrought.

CtheB
3/15/2007, 12:52 PM
The probation is so minor it won't be a factor. We're getting about 5 recruits for the next class and will have 4 or 5 more for the class after that

There is no such thing as a "minor" probation. There is a "minor" infraction, but those don't result in probation generally. Let's not confuse "probation" and "infraction".

And, all probation is a factor. It has already cost us three commitments.

LittleWingSooner
3/15/2007, 01:16 PM
The 3 commits signed knowing about the probation. If OU went and hired someone from the staff last year they would have probably kept James, Reynolds, and Mayfield

BigRedJed
3/15/2007, 01:25 PM
...and had a Gary Gibbs type of future.

CtheB
3/15/2007, 01:31 PM
They may have signed with knowledge of the probation, but I don't think they committed with knowledge of the probation. And they leave when KS leaves, after signing. I guess that probation and Kelvin are mutually exclusive of each other in their eyes.

LittleWingSooner
3/15/2007, 01:33 PM
...and had a Gary Gibbs type of future.

I agree, I think we could be better in the long run with Capel. But if we kept someone from the staff we would have been better in this year.