Calvin Simpson

[tru2ou]

The next time everyone cheers the former OU coach and wishes him good luck, I hope you remember what yesterday felt like when you didnt see OU in the NCAA or NIT bracket.

Kelvin is the sole person responsible for OU's 25 year post season streak coming to an end.

The state he left this program in is a joke and the players leaving because of his rapid departure inflicted even more harm.

I didnt like him when he was our coach and I like him even less now. I just can't root for the man or the program he represents.


- TRU

:pop: :pop:

[badger]

i picked him to LOSE in the first round! fire calvin simpson, indy!

[colleyvillesooner]

:pop:

[badger]

:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:

[TheBobbyTrain]

calvin didn't make the team shoot an awesomely bad field goal percentage on wide open shots. but - i guess you could say that he had players that were used to his pass-the-ball-15-times-then-shoot style of offense as opposed to Capel's offense where there were plenty of open shot opportunities but nothing ever fell.

[Frozen Sooner]

The next time everyone cheers the former OU coach and wishes him good luck, I hope you remember what yesterday felt like when you didnt see OU in the NCAA or NIT bracket.

Kelvin is the sole person responsible for OU's 25 year post season streak coming to an end.

The state he left this program in is a joke and the players leaving because of his rapid departure inflicted even more harm.

I didnt like him when he was our coach and I like him even less now. I just can't root for the man or the program he represents.


- TRU

:pop: :pop:


Well that's just re-goddamn-diculous.

You're welcome to your opinion, though.

[SoonerStormchaser]

:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:

:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:pop:
:twinkies:

[Big Red Ron]

Well that's just re-goddamn-diculous.

You're welcome to your opinion, though.Sampson got us on probation, no?

Sampson left us high and dry once he knew probation was on its way, no?

Sampson's best recruiting class ever split after he split, no?

Sampson recruited every spare tire that makes our staring five, no?

Am I missing why he isn't to blame?

[SoonerStormchaser]

You got some points there BRR!

[Frozen Sooner]

Sampson got us on probation, no?

Sampson left us high and dry once he knew probation was on its way, no?

Sampson's best recruiting class ever split after he split, no?

Sampson recruited every spare tire that makes our staring five, no?

Am I missing why he isn't to blame?

Sampson never missed the postseason, no?

Sampson isn't responsible for the next coach being unable to hold on to his recruits, no?

Sampson recruited the best freshman on the team, no?

Sampson was just responsible for the best season in Bloomington since Bobby Knight left, no?

I like Jeff Capel, but guess what? The responsibility for this season is his, not Kelvin Sampson's-and I don't think he'd agree with you one bit that it's not.

[badger]

Sampson was just responsible for the best season in Bloomington since Bobby Knight left, no?
OBJECTION! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1797861)

[PrideTrombone]

Sampson was just responsible for the best season in Bloomington since Bobby Knight left, no?


No.

I'm pretty sure their 2002 Final Four run (from a 5 seed, better than the 7 they're at this year) wuold be better. ****ing Tom Coverdale.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Sampson was just responsible for the best season in Bloomington since Bobby Knight left, no?

mike davis took them to the championship game that one year, i think right after knight left, it was with knights players but that season was probly better then this year post-knight era unless they pull off a miracle championship this year

[OSUAggie]

I thought it was Kevin Simpson, not Calvin.. :confused:

[Frozen Sooner]

Season, not post season.

IU has not had an undefeated home season since Bob Knight left-which they managed this year.

IU had not won 20 games in a season since Bob Knight left-which they managed this year.

I'm well aware that Davis managed a miracle run to the Finals and beat OU in the Final Four. What's amazing is that even in that Final Four year there were people complaining about Coach Sampson.

[PrideTrombone]

That 2001-2002 must've been alright to earn them a 5 seed. This regular season was only enough for a 7 seed in a year where it seemed like no one was qualified for a high seed.

[OUstud]

Sampson isn't responsible for the next coach being unable to hold on to his recruits, no?

I'm pretty sure that if we weren't about to be hit by probation, most of, if not all of the recruits would have stayed.

[BigRedJed]

You can't blame Kelvin for the streak coming to an end without giving him credit for keeping it alive for twelve seasons. Unbelievable.

The man had a better winning percentage, both in and out conference, than anyone ever to coach roundball at OU. He won a conference title, 3 conference tournament championships, and went deep in the NCAA tourney multiple times.

The violations problems were disappointing, sure, but that type of thing on a much grander scale doesn't keep most fans from loving Barry Switzer. Recruits bolting when a coach leaves for another job? Geez, that's just the real world. That's not his fault.

I really tire of all of the Kelvin haters. About the only thing you can legitimately pin on him were the relatively minor infractions, which unfortunately probably happen more than we know in college hoop. Give it up, people.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm pretty sure that if we weren't about to be hit by probation, most of, if not all of the recruits would have stayed.

I'm pretty sure that you're 100% wrong.

[tru2ou]

The violations problems were disappointing, sure, but that type of thing on a much grander scale doesn't keep most fans from loving Barry Switzer. Recruits bolting when a coach leaves for another job? Geez, that's just the real world. That's not his fault.



Switzer didnt bolt for Alabama or Notre Dame when the violations were on their way. That's the difference! He stuck it out and was fired by an overzealous, stupid azz president.

Kelvin put us in this mess and Capel is doing his best to dig us out if it. I think this team acheived all they could with what was left. And I thank Kelvin for that. Again, its just my choice not to cheer him when he returns or root for his teams for here on out. I respect the hell out of Kellen for staying and being a true Sooner.

With all the crap John Blake takes on here, I think Kelvin should get even more for the state he left the program. Shameful.

- Tru

[Frozen Sooner]

I guess I missed where Kelvin had three losing seasons in a row or trashed our recruiting database.

And if you think that Kelvin was leaving entirely voluntarily, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[SoonerStormchaser]

No.

I'm pretty sure their 2002 Final Four run (from a 5 seed, better than the 7 they're at this year) wuold be better. ****ing Tom Coverdale.


I hate that effing prick Coverdale...he got away with murder in that game and the refs wouldn't call ANYTHING on him.

[NormanPride]

I thought Capel landed Maze?

[LittleWingSooner]

Blaming the last coach for what happened this year is pointless and stupid. Kelvin did a great job here. I have nothing but good to say about the job he did here. But he is no longer our coach. Capel is. And to me if you want any blame on a coach it's Capel. Capel is a young coach that probably has us going the right way. I think he'll end up doing a good job.

[william_brasky]

Tom Coverdale?

Lead singer for Whitesnake?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Sampson never missed the postseason, no?

Sampson isn't responsible for the next coach being unable to hold on to his recruits, no?

Sampson recruited the best freshman on the team, no?

Sampson was just responsible for the best season in Bloomington since Bobby Knight left, no?

I like Jeff Capel, but guess what? The responsibility for this season is his, not Kelvin Sampson's-and I don't think he'd agree with you one bit that it's not.

I would have to disagree with you on this.

While Capel is responsible for the season he coached it, its not like he was left with lots in the cupboard. I think Calvin saw it coming, why else would he risk so much. He got caught, burned and then mad at OU for not supporting him. We would have most likely lost the recruits anyway based on what the NCAA did. We'll see what happens in a couple years at Indy, after Calvin doesn't have any of the old coaches recruits left there.

[Frozen Sooner]

"Risk so much." Dude. He made extra phone calls. It wasn't right, but it isn't like he was paying anyone.

I sincerely doubt that James or Reynolds would have left due to the minor NCAA sanctions we received-and BOTH of them talked extensively about their great relationship with Coach Sampson.

I imagine that he'll do fine when he has his own recruits in, as he's been much more successful signing kids this first year than Davis was even without being able to leave campus to recruit.

To be perfectly clear, Kelvin Sampson is Indiana's coach now and I don't really give a rat's patoot what he does from here on out-but the way he gets vilified after providing us with more than a decade of quality basketball is ridiculous.

[sanantoniosooner]

It's Billy Tubbs fault we didn't make the post season this year.

[Big Red Ron]

Sampson made 500 illegal calls personally. We've lost scholarships. It wasn't a slap on the wrist and it wasn't the death penalty but we damn near got the dreaded "Lack of institutional control" label.

I appreciate Calvin's achievements and making it to the post season every year was nice but losing in the first round half the time was the succ.

Heck we lost to Manhattan and Indiana stat ferchristsakes.

Calvin is was a good but not great coach.

[Frozen Sooner]

Sampson made 500 illegal calls personally. We've lost scholarships. It wasn't a slap on the wrist and it wasn't the death penalty but we damn near got the dreaded "Lack of institutional control" label.

I appreciate Calvin's achievements and making it to the post season every year was nice but losing in the first round half the time was the succ.

Heck we lost to Manhattan and Indiana stat ferchristsakes.

Calvin is was a good but not great coach.

So losing to Manhattan in the first round of the NCAA tournament is Sampson's fault, but not making the postseason at all isn't Capel's?

And it's not like OU hadn't lost to Indiana State in the NCAA tourney before. Our best player had a freakin' chunk taken out of his arm in that game!

[Big Red Ron]

So losing to Manhattan in the first round of the NCAA tournament is Sampson's fault, but not making the postseason at all isn't Capel's?
Where did I say that Mike?

This year's team is Sampson's creation and Capel did the coaching. Given the talent level that he inherited from Sampson, I think he did a decent job.

Just like when Sampson got here, he coached the talent left by Tubbs. Which was considerably better than what Capel was left.

It really isn't debatable.

Do you think that Sampson would have made the NCAA with this team? No, I don't think Dean Smith himself could have gotten this team to the NCAA with Johnson running the point and one post player who is average at best.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Wow, what a new enlightening post in this thread!!! Why hadn't anyone thought of posting a Sampson bashing thread before!!!

[Big Red Ron]

Wow, what a new enlightening post in this thread!!! Why hadn't anyone thought of posting a Sampson bashing thread before!!!I was one of the few people here that used to defend Sampson. Check the Archives, if you don't believe me.

After probation and his leaving us holding the bag, my opinion changed.

I guess you could say, I feel a little betrayed. Even though he played the ugliest basketball I've ever seen (every year), he was a winner( in the regular season.

Even though he lost as many NCAA games as he won, I supported him. Heck, if it weren't for Hollis Price, he would have a losing NCAA record, but I supported him.

Probation is where the worm turned for me.

I hope Capel has more than one conference championship here after 12 years.

[ouflak]

Do you think that Sampson would have made the NCAA with this team?

Actually I do think he might have. He certainly would have atleast gotten us into the NIT. Why do I feel this way? His track record. He had a knack of getting the most from very modestly talented teams, and doing it consistently.

I think Tubbs was a good coach. I think Sampson was a good coach. I think Capel is a good coach.

I don't the see the conflict here. Or perhaps I just don't see the necessity to keep harping on Kelvin Sampson over and over and over and over...
.
and over...
.
and over...
.
.
and over...
.
.
.

again.

I guess there's point to it I just can't comprehend or bother to care about.



I hope Capel has more than one conference championship here after 12 years.

Heck I hope Capel wins six of the next 12 conference championships! (which would be 2 more than Samspon won: 3 tourney, 1 reg. season). But I fail to see what hoping that Capel wins a bunch of conference titles has to do with Kelvin Sampson's relative past success. I just want my team to win!

[Big Red Ron]

Actually I do think he might have. He certainly would have atleast gotten us into the NIT. Why do I feel this way? His track record. He had a knack of getting the most from very modestly talented teams, and doing it consistently.

I think Tubbs was a good coach. I think Sampson was a good coach. I think Capel is a good coach.

I don't the see the conflict here. Or perhaps I just don't see the necessity to keep harping on Kelvin Sampson over and over and over and over...
.
and over...
.
and over...
.
.
and over...
.
.
.

again.

I guess there's point to it I just don't see or care about.I agree that Sampson might have gotten us to the NIT but no way in heck would he made it to the NCAA.

Like I said, I feel betrayed by Sampson. Mostly for the probation.

I realized he was pressured out of Oklahoma but if anyone thinks that this season isn't a direct result of Sampson's probation and action, then I have a bridge to sell you...

Capel might end up the worst coach ever to come down the way but we'll just have to wait and see.

[OU_Sooners75]

Switzer didnt bolt for Alabama or Notre Dame when the violations were on their way. That's the difference! He stuck it out and was fired by an overzealous, stupid azz president.

Kelvin put us in this mess and Capel is doing his best to dig us out if it. I think this team acheived all they could with what was left. And I thank Kelvin for that. Again, its just my choice not to cheer him when he returns or root for his teams for here on out. I respect the hell out of Kellen for staying and being a true Sooner.

With all the crap John Blake takes on here, I think Kelvin should get even more for the state he left the program. Shameful.

- Tru


LMFAO!!!!

Where is Sampson coaching this year?
Where is Capel coaching this year?
Who was the coach of OU when the streak of post season play ended?
Capel or Sampson?

What? You said Capel?

Then how the hell is it Sampson's fault that OU totally stunk it up this year?

Yes we had players leave or decide to go to a different school, however, they have that option when the coach that recruited them leaves. Hell, if they wanted to, they could have went to Indiana with him.

Capel may have had a somewhat bare cupboard. He may not have had the talent to win the Big 12 this year. However, he had talent enough to compete this year. Capel is the one running this program now, not Sampson!

By your way of thinking John Blake should get a National Championship ring and OU should give credit to John Blake for winning that 2000 Football National Championship.

[Big Red Ron]

Probation, my man, probation.

The cupboard wasn't "somewhat bare" but almost completly devoid of talent. Who is our best player? Maze?

[OU_Sooners75]

Probation, my man, probation.

The cupboard wasn't "somewhat bare" but almost completly devoid of talent. Who is our best player? Maze?


Are you talking about the talent that is good enough to be signed by Sampson and played by Capel?

Or are you talking about the talent that could be on many other D-1 teams?

Do we have a pure shooter? Yeah, Neal and Crocker shown signs of having a decent shoot.
Do we have a point guard? Not really. But we did have a couple that could handle the ball.
Do we have a decent big man? Yeah. actually two of them, one of them got hurt, the other one played decent most of the season.

[Big Red Ron]

Are you talking about the talent that is good enough to be signed by Sampson and played by Capel?

Or are you talking about the talent that could be on many other D-1 teams?

Do we have a pure shooter? Yeah, Neal and Crocker shown signs of having a decent shoot.
Do we have a point guard? Not really. But we did have a couple that could handle the ball.
Do we have a decent big man? Yeah. actually two of them, one of them got hurt, the other one played decent most of the season.You talking about the 6'11 stiff that never showed anything until Capel got here or the 6'7 guy that we call a "big man" or the freshman that really didn't show squat before he was hurt?

I really like Neal but he was a defensive liability and didn't shoot that great this year.

We don't have a single guard that played PG in HS on our roster. This is a direct result of Sampson running off Lavender and Mackenzie.

Please, this team is a rag tad bunch of good guys and role players.

[LittleWingSooner]

Are you talking about the talent that is good enough to be signed by Sampson and played by Capel?

Or are you talking about the talent that could be on many other D-1 teams?

Do we have a pure shooter? Yeah, Neal and Crocker shown signs of having a decent shoot.
Do we have a point guard? Not really. But we did have a couple that could handle the ball.
Do we have a decent big man? Yeah. actually two of them, one of them got hurt, the other one played decent most of the season.


Neal was one of the best pure shooters in Big 12 play last year.

I think the point was average but it would have looked better if we had a 2 that could scores

We were decent inside. Not great though.

The biggest problem is we didn't have a guard that could score this year. Neal had a bad year, Crocker and Godbold were absent on offense. You can't look good at the point if you can't get anything from your wings.

[Big Red Ron]

Neal was one of the best pure shooters in Big 12 play last year.

I think the point was average but it would have looked better if we had a 2 that could scores

Ahem, Neal was our two, so which is it?

[Shneeg11]

Or are you talking about the talent that could be on many other D-1 teams?

Do we have a pure shooter? Yeah, Neal and Crocker shown signs of having a decent shoot.



HAHA, who could be on many other D-1 teams. And it doesn't count if you say a team worse than OU, b/c that is a completely ridiculous thing to argue. And usually a Pure shooter has better than a Decent shot. Neal is a good shooter, Crocker....not so much. Before AJ broke his ankle last year, he was a great three point shooter.

As far as kelvin goes, I respect the job he did here, but i tend to agree with BRR. He did a great job here, but if it was not for probation our top recruits would not have left, and Capel would not have been struggling to scrape up talent before the season.:kelvin:

[soonerboomer93]

some just really need to get their heads out of their asses and get over it.


What happens sucks.
Yeah, Kelvin did some **** that got us put on probation. He also did plenty of good for the school and university. But the fact is he's no longer here, and bitching and whining about what happened does jack **** for improving the program. It's time for some of you guys to get out of the past and start looking towards the present and the future.


Besides, what good does bitching about the mens team do. We have a womens team is absolutely one of the best in the nation. Why don't you go support them.

[Big Red Ron]

You can't blame Kelvin for the streak coming to an end without giving him credit for keeping it alive for twelve seasons. Unbelievable.

The man had a better winning percentage, both in and out conference, than anyone ever to coach roundball at OU. He won a conference title, 3 conference tournament championships, and went deep in the NCAA tourney multiple times.

.That's a bit decieving. He had a .500 record in the NCAA. One conference championship in 12 years isn't something to brag about. Also, he was one and done more often than "deep in the NCAA" by a long shot. Kelvin was Mr. one and done for the most part and losing to the lower seed in most of those cases.

Again, Kelvin was good, not great.

[Big Red Ron]

Besides, what good does bitching about the mens team do. We have a womens team is absolutely one of the best in the nation. Why don't you go support them.Hi! I'm a SoonerFan message board. Nice to meet ya. Most of us are proud and supporters of the wimmins.

Excuse us for trying to make sense of what has happened to one of the top three basketall programs in the Big 8/12 over the last two years.

[LittleWingSooner]

Ahem, Neal was our two, so which is it?

It would help if Neal had a year like he had last year. He shot the same open shots this year that he had last year and missed them. He wasn't as good this year as he was last year.

[soonerboomer93]

Hi! I'm a SoonerFan message board. Nice to meet ya. Most of us are proud and supporters of the wimmins.

Excuse us for trying to make sense of what has happened to one of the top three basketall programs in the Big 8/12 over the last two years.

No, this isn't a try and make sense of what happened thread. This is a bitch about how Kelvin left the program thread. It's the same thread that has been retread eleventy bajillion times in this same forum since the day he left.

[LittleWingSooner]

If you think Kelvin left the program in a bad way how about how Tubbs and Bliss left it? This is the first coach in recent memory that the coach doesn't have to completely rebuild from scratch after a couple of seasons.

Tubbs had 2 players that were young and good. But he had to recruit junior college to get us better in 83. Then he got Tisdale.

All of Tubbs players that Sampson had were gone after 2 seasons outside of Wiley. Sampson had to rebuild.

Capel has more young talent right now then either of those 2. And he's gotten some young talent for the next class also. It'll be interesting to see how he does.

[william_brasky]

This is the first coach in recent memory that the coach doesn't have to completely rebuild from scratch after a couple of seasons.

Capel has had to rebuild from Day 1.

[OU_Sooners75]

HAHA, who could be on many other D-1 teams. And it doesn't count if you say a team worse than OU, b/c that is a completely ridiculous thing to argue. And usually a Pure shooter has better than a Decent shot. Neal is a good shooter, Crocker....not so much. Before AJ broke his ankle last year, he was a great three point shooter.

As far as kelvin goes, I respect the job he did here, but i tend to agree with BRR. He did a great job here, but if it was not for probation our top recruits would not have left, and Capel would not have been struggling to scrape up talent before the season.:kelvin:


LMFAO @ anyone that does not know there are over 250 D-1 basketball teams!

So take a pick at which team they could play for.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/search.php?searchid=312833

Could just post it in any of the 107 threads about him ;)

[LittleWingSooner]

Capel has had to rebuild from Day 1.

No Crocker, Griffin, AJ, and Clark are a good foundation to build on and will be here 3 or more years. All of those were Kelvin recruits. Longar and Godbold are pretty decent players too. I think Longar could improve and be a 2nd or 3 all-big 12 guy.

[the_ouskull]

First of all, I just read through this thread, and there are so many individual posters that I want to "go after," but, honestly, remembering each and every post is impossible, and I don't want to beat a dead horse enough to write 'em down, or open two browser windows...

Considering how well he performed as a coach, and how little the fan base, as a whole, failed to reward him, I can understand his wanting to leave for at shot at the college basketball version of Mecca. I guaran-d*mn-tee you that, if he wins two national coach of the year awards, makes a Final Four, an Elite Eight, and a few Sweet 16's, it'll be a h*ll of a lot more appreciated there in Bloomington than it was when he did it here.

As for the actual leave, I have to admit, I wasn't expecting it, but, considering he'd signed a Top 25 class, and that the NCAA sanctions aren't really hurting recruiting one bit, it's hard to say that he left the cupboard bare. Kelvin even tried to get the kids to honor their commitments. Capel is the one that "let them go," by letting them out of their LOI's... and without penalty.

...and none of that sh*t matters anymore, because Kelvin is gone, and Capel, starting next year, is pretty much running with his own horses, especially if he pulls one last recruiting coup this year and gets the Lucas kid. So, I feel that, starting next season, we're going to see a lot of improvement out of this team, and that we'll be an NCAA tournament-type team. I think that, in 08, we're going to be a Sweet 16 or better type team.

I'm happy for Kelvin, because I think that he's one h*ll of a coach, and he deserves to be doing what he does at a school with a fanbase that will fully appreciate him. I'm happy for OU because we're bringing in an up-and-coming coach who is going to instill a lot of energy into a program which, since Hollis Price left, had become somewhat stagnant. In addition, he happens to be a heck of a good coach, and will be a competitor for this team...

I don't see why it has to be about "Kelvin did this, Kelvin did that," 'cause there's blame that can be equally shared.

If you want to talk about something Kelvin did though, how's about you talk about the fact that his team led the Big 10 in scoring? So much for his teams not scoring points, I guess...

the_ouskull

[PrideTrombone]

If you want to talk about something Kelvin did though, how's about you talk about the fact that his team led the Big 10 in scoring? So much for his teams not scoring points, I guess...

the_ouskull

Dude, listen to that point. It's the BIG TEN. Offense isn't really their strong point.

That'd be like bragging about the nicest '84 Mustang on the road. :)

[tulsaoilerfan]

So losing to Manhattan in the first round of the NCAA tournament is Sampson's fault, but not making the postseason at all isn't Capel's?

And it's not like OU hadn't lost to Indiana State in the NCAA tourney before. Our best player had a freakin' chunk taken out of his arm in that game!


That Indiana State team you are referring to only had one of the top 5 players in basketball history and went to the finals, so i can forgive Dave Bliss for losing that one. :D

[tulsaoilerfan]

Just wait and see how quickly that great fan base in Indiana will turn on Kelvin if he has a couple of so-so years; just ask Mike Davis

[Shneeg11]

LMFAO @ anyone that does not know there are over 250 D-1 basketball teams!

So take a pick at which team they could play for.


I said teams that are better than OU!!! i know there are not 250 of those. The point of me saying that is, the season we had based on the talent level we had.....IMO it was a success. Not a season that i want to see repeated, but it was a good starting point for Capel.

[Frozen Sooner]

That Indiana State team you are referring to only had one of the top 5 players in basketball history and went to the finals, so i can forgive Dave Bliss for losing that one. :D

If the haters can ignore Hollis losing a chunk of bicep, I can ignore Basketball Jesus. :)

[John Kochtoston]

What Skull and Mike Rich said. Times 2.

[Big Red Ron]

What Skull and Mike Rich said. Times 2.out, times uh, four.:rolleyes:

[CtheB]

I find it nearly amazing that Capel won 16 games with last year's team minus Bookout, Gray and Everett.

And, surprisingly, that's all I have to add to this thread. :)

[Big Red Ron]

I am too, very impressed with Capel. Can't wait to get some "Oklahoma" type talent and see what he can do.

[John Kochtoston]

out, times uh, four.:rolleyes:

Forgive me for not choosing to beat the horse, oh great one.

[leavingthezoo]

so, do you guys think boo blake should be credited for our championship in football despite bob being at the helm when OU won it? 'cause it's sounding a lot like you must if sampson is credited for OU under Capels coaching.

heh. and i know you don't... i just like to point out the inconsistency in the thought process. ;)

[Big Red Ron]

so, do you guys think boo blake should be credited for our championship in football despite bob being at the helm when OU won it? 'cause it's sounding a lot like you must if sampson is credited for OU under Capels coaching.

heh. and i know you don't... i just like to point out the inconsistency in the thought process. ;)Apples and oranges dear.

[sanantoniosooner]

heh. and i know you don't... i just like to point out the inconsistency in the thought process. ;)
You could write a novel regarding this in relation to sports fans.
Especially on message boards.

[leavingthezoo]

You could write a novel regarding this in relation to sports fans.
Especially on message boards.

not without contradicting myself at every turn. :D

[stoopified]

I was one of the few people here that used to defend Sampson. Check the Archives, if you don't believe me.

After probation and his leaving us holding the bag, my opinion changed.

I guess you could say, I feel a little betrayed. Even though he played the ugliest basketball I've ever seen (every year), he was a winner( in the regular season.

Even though he lost as many NCAA games as he won, I supported him. Heck, if it weren't for Hollis Price, he would have a losing NCAA record, but I supported him.

Probation is where the worm turned for me.

I hope Capel has more than one conference championship here after 12 years.That is pretty much my feeling word for word.The only thing I would add is that I had a HUGE problem with KS attitude after he got caught making 571 impermissible calls.He is saying it is all oSu's fault because THEY turned us in,(my personal favorite whiny defense)AND he didn't see what he did as cheating but OUTWORKING other staffs.These comments were uttered by Sampson during his questioning by the NCAA and were in the D.O.(in case you were looking for source).All this while serving on the NCAA Baketball Comittee for Infractions?Hello ! Earth to Calvin?I'm sorry Mike but I too am forced to disagree with you on this.I think you should just accept that you are in the extreme minority here and call it good,

[stonecoldsoonerfan]

i just wish that turds like this thread would finally flush and people would get on with it. :mad:

[Frozen Sooner]

That is pretty much my feeling word for word.The only thing I would add is that I had a HUGE problem with KS attitude after he got caught making 571 impermissible calls.He is saying it is all oSu's fault because THEY turned us in,(my personal favorite whiny defense)AND he didn't see what he did as cheating but OUTWORKING other staffs.These comments were uttered by Sampson during his questioning by the NCAA and were in the D.O.(in case you were looking for source).All this while serving on the NCAA Baketball Comittee for Infractions?Hello ! Earth to Calvin?I'm sorry Mike but I too am forced to disagree with you on this.I think you should just accept that you are in the extreme minority here and call it good,

The "extreme minority?" You're killing me, smalls. Just because people who liked Coach Sampson don't post a thread a day about him doesn't mean we're an "extreme minority."

I think you should just accept that Kelvin Sampson was a good coach and move on with your life.

[StuIsTheMan]

I agree that he was a great Coach, and maybe still is, but to just up and leave a program that you helped build back up and then almost destroy...HE CAN LICK BIG HAIRY DONKEY BALL SACKs and I hope Indy gets KILLED BY GONZAGA...Indiana Basketball is like Notre Dumb football...they don't even have to be that good and they get in to the post season...maybe put Duke in there too...Duke can LICK THE BIG HAIRY DONKEY'S TAINT!


that is all...

[Big Red Ron]

I think you should just accept that Kelvin Sampson was a good coach and move on with your life.http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90509

[StuIsTheMan]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90509

you know I almost re-posted that for ya...lol

[Frozen Sooner]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90509
:hot:

Yes, Ron, I realize that you recognize that Kelvin Sampson is a good coach. However, you're not the only person posting in this thread. You'll pardon me if not every post I make is directed at you, right?

[BigRedJed]

Extreme minority. Hilarious.

[Big Red Ron]

:hot:

Yes, Ron, I realize that you recognize that Kelvin Sampson is a good coach. However, you're not the only person posting in this thread. You'll pardon me if not every post I make is directed at you, right?Sure, I just think that most of the "Calvin" bashers feel similar to me.

[BigRedJed]

No, many of the Kelvin bashers won't even agree that he was a decent coach. Which completely, utterly and absolutely marginalizes their opinions.

[Big Red Ron]

No, many of the Kelvin bashers won't even agree that he was a decent coach. Which completely, utterly and absolutely marginalizes their opinions.Then I guess I'm in the minority.

[Frozen Sooner]

Sure, I just think that most of the "Calvin" bashers feel similar to me.

I think the preponderance of evidence isn't in your favor on that one. The fact that many of the people who bash Sampson now (yourself excluded, of course) are the same ones who were bashing him before the whole phone deal came up is a pretty good indicator of that. Many people who didn't like Kelvin to begin with have simply seized on the phone issue to justify their dislike of him.

The guy isn't a guy that fans particularly like for whatever reason. He did seem aloof, and he did seem to entertain job offers a bit too often. Then again, he did take us to an entire decade+ of NCAA tournaments. I certainly wish we hadn't underperformed like we did in them. Then again, I'd rather be there and get upset than not be there at all.

The phone issue doesn't sit particularly well with me, but in the grand scheme of things I don't consider extra phone calls that big of a deal. You shouldn't do it, of course, but again it's not on a par with paying a player or even giving a minimally-qualified parent a job as director of basketball operations from an ethical standpoint.

As it happens, I thought OU needed a change at the end of last year, simply for the fact that Sampson seemed to lose control of the team to an extent and that our fanbase was SO divided over the guy.

I just resent the implication that OU's struggles this year were somehow his fault. He had a nucleus of guys coming back and some great recruits coming in. It's not his fault that the guys he recruited bailed because they wanted to play for him when they signed with OU-and if anyone thinks that the loss of two scholarships and a restriction on recruiting off campus had anything to do with losing those guys, they're nuts.

[Big Red Ron]

I think the preponderance of evidence isn't in your favor on that one. The fact that many of the people who bash Sampson now (yourself excluded, of course) are the same ones who were bashing him before the whole phone deal came up is a pretty good indicator of that. Many people who didn't like Kelvin to begin with have simply seized on the phone issue to justify their dislike of him.

The guy isn't a guy that fans particularly like for whatever reason. He did seem aloof, and he did seem to entertain job offers a bit too often. Then again, he did take us to an entire decade+ of NCAA tournaments. I certainly wish we hadn't underperformed like we did in them. Then again, I'd rather be there and get upset than not be there at all.

The phone issue doesn't sit particularly well with me, but in the grand scheme of things I don't consider extra phone calls that big of a deal. You shouldn't do it, of course, but again it's not on a par with paying a player or even giving a minimally-qualified parent a job as director of basketball operations from an ethical standpoint.

As it happens, I thought OU needed a change at the end of last year, simply for the fact that Sampson seemed to lose control of the team to an extent and that our fanbase was SO divided over the guy.

I just resent the implication that OU's struggles this year were somehow his fault. He had a nucleus of guys coming back and some great recruits coming in. It's not his fault that the guys he recruited bailed because they wanted to play for him when they signed with OU-and if anyone thinks that the loss of two scholarships and a restriction on recruiting off campus had anything to do with losing those guys, they're nuts.See, I can agree with 90% of your sentiment here until the end. It isn't nuts to think that a team losing it's coach and under NCAA investigation would make some of the top recruits in the nation decide to take a pass on OU.

[Frozen Sooner]

I think "team losing its coach" was much more a factor for these three guys than "under NCAA investigation." They knew about the NCAA investigation when they signed their LOIs. Therefore, I think that blaming the NCAA investigation for losing the guys doesn't fit the evidence.

I mean, I guess you can blame Sampson for leaving, which led to those kids reneging on their LOIs, but it isn't like Sampson wanted them to leave or even as if Sampson was leaving completely voluntarily. Capel had every opportunity to keep those kids, and for whatever reason didn't. I don't think it's completely crazy to think that James, Mayfield, and Reynolds all decided that if they couldn't play for Sampson they'd go ahead and play for teams closer to home that didn't have a 32-year-old for a coach with no major conference experience.

[Big Red Ron]

We really don't know what an 18 year old is thinking. I just think there was a "perfect storm" that left us in the situation we find ourselves in and Sampson certainly deserves some of the blame.

[BigRedJed]

...They knew about the NCAA investigation when they signed their LOIs...
Excellent point. But don't expect the haters to listen to logical points.

Coaches leave. Kids are fickle these days. Ahmed Kabba left when Bob Stoops was named head football coach. In retrospect it was a poor decision on his part. Maybe the same will be said about Kelvin's recruits jumping. But that was their choice, not his. It was Capel's choice to release them from their LOIs, which was the honorable thing to do.

I can't blame Kelvin for taking the IU job; it's a great job and he got little fan support most of the time he was here.

What's funny is that the haters wanted nothing more than for Kelvin to leave the entire time he was here, and now that he's gone they're mad at him for leaving.

[BigRedJed]

We really don't know what an 18 year old is thinking. I just think there was a "perfect storm" that left us in the situation we find ourselves in and Sampson certainly deserves some of the blame.
Hey, that's a fair statement. The problem is there are a lot of posts in this thread that seem to indicate he deserves ALL of the blame.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I guess my problem is that since I don't think that Sampson was a crappy coach...I just need to move on. However, every week we get a thread posting about Sampson is to blame for this and that. You don't see people that support Sampson posting a new thread every week. Maybe the Sampson haters need to move on. He has been gone a year now, let's let him die from your memories and move on. I mean do we really need a post a new thread every time Indiana is down 3 points to a team and say "Wowee I bet Indiana is glad they got ole Calvin now!!!"

[StuIsTheMan]

See, I can agree with 90% of your sentiment here until the end. It isn't nuts to think that a team losing it's coach and under NCAA investigation would make some of the top recruits in the nation decide to take a pass on OU.


AGREED!!! 100% That was a big issue I am sure with those kids comming in and what about whats his nuts that up and left for Nova...not only did it hurt our recruiting but some players left aswell...JMHO

[the_ouskull]

FIrst of all, to the guy that (predictably) posted the difference between scoring in the Big 12 and in the Big 10...

Big 12 teams, on the whole on the season, averaged 72.97 points per game.
Big 10 teams averaged 66.32 ppg.

That's a 6.65 point per game difference. Not really that big of a difference... especially when you consider that, if you're conceding that the Big 10 is a more defensive-minded league, then it's going to be HARDER to score points there, not easier. Another stat to note is that, even though the teams in both leagues averaged the same number of games per team (32) the Big 10 had 3 teams (of 11) fail to reach 2000 points on the season. The Big 12 had 2. The Big 10 may not score as many points, but their top-end teams are putting up points, to be certain, and Kelvin's team was at the top of that list.

This certainly doesn't show that Kelvin "couldn't coach offense," as many of the ignorant haters used to toss around... What is does show is that his offense can be quite successful when players are making shots. If Kelvin did OU ANY disservice, it's the fact that our core players this season, Longar, Nate, Taylor, et al.. didn't get any minutes last season and came into this season untested, with a new coach to boot.

...and about the phone call thing, just think NCAA graduation rates.

If Kelvin calls at 3:00 and gets dad, who says, "Boy's not home, call back in half an hour," calls back at 3:30 and gets mom, who says, "Boy's not home, call back in an hour," and then calls back at 4:30 and finally talks to Recruit A, the NCAA considers that three phone calls, not one.

The bottom line is that Kelvin is a very dynamic person, and people are very love / hate when it comes to him. I loved the guy, and I loved having him as our coach. Some don't. That's fine. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. But, throwing an opinion out there and pretending that it's gospel just because you added a few cute little swear words (I'm talking to you, New Guy... StulsTheMan) isn't going to fly around here. If you have an opinion, share it, BUT, if you're going to share it, be prepared to back it up with something other than Caps Lock and lies.

the_ouskull

[Big Red Ron]

Skull,

I have great respect for you and your opinions and you know I wasn't ever a Kelvin Hater but his lack of offensive skills aren't imagined. His offense was plain vanilla. We never used the pick and roll effectively, we never used any backdoor cuts and if we didn't have a three point shooter our games turned into 40-60 point snoozers.

Again, I appreciate all that Kelvin did here but I hope Capel can coach offense better than Kelvin. We don't need 100 points a game (like Tubbs) but it sure would be nice to see some creative offensive schemes.

[Hoosier Dynasty]

Season, not post season.

IU has not had an undefeated home season since Bob Knight left-which they managed this year.

IU had not won 20 games in a season since Bob Knight left-which they managed this year.

I'm well aware that Davis managed a miracle run to the Finals and beat OU in the Final Four. What's amazing is that even in that Final Four year there were people complaining about Coach Sampson.

Mike Davis had several 20 win seasons. In 2002, it was 25 wins.

There are better days ahead for OU basketball.

[Frozen Sooner]

Mike Davis had several 20 win seasons. In 2002, it was 25 wins.

There are better days ahead for OU basketball.

My fault, then. I was misinformed by an Indiana fan.

[badger]

Hey, that's a fair statement. The problem is there are a lot of posts in this thread that seem to indicate he deserves ALL of the blame.
its easier to blame people who aren't around to defend themselves. that's what our appear to the ncaa is, anyway. if we get away with letting kelvin get away with making hundreds of phone calls he shouldn't have made, there is something wrong.

(not that i don't want us to get away with it, but we should at least get probation for this)