People Who Should Be In Jail

[FaninAma]

1.People who throw trash on the side of the road....this includes broken appliances.

Good God but Oklahoma is a trashy place. I've been amazed since I've moved her at how much trash is simply tossed along the sides of the roads.

2.People who drop their cigarette butts outside. This is just nasty.

3.People who shop at Walmart more than 2 days in a calandar year. Don't these idiots realize if they keep doing this that in the near future Walmart is going to be the only place their kids and grandkids can get a job?

4.People who smoke around their kids or somebody else's kids.

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/member.php?u=39631

[jk the sooner fan]

i shop at walmart because its cheaper than their competitors

both my kids have jobs, neither of them work for walmart

which is just amazing to me

[Czar Soonerov]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701560.html

'McMissile' Moment Lands Mom in Jail
Driver Gets Felony Conviction For Tossing Cup of Ice Into Car

By Theresa Vargas
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 18, 2007; Page A01

To the locals, it's the "McMissile" case.

And like the name, the details of it spill forth like a bad joke: A woman is driving north on Interstate 95. Three kids squirm in the back seat, and her sister, six months pregnant and having early contractions, sits in the front. The stress starts to simmer. Traffic slows, then crawls, then creeps. More stress. A car cuts in front of her, then scoots away. A short time later, it darts in again. She can no longer take it. She veers onto the shoulder and speeds up. Wham! She tosses a large McDonald's cup filled with ice into the other car.

A Stafford County jury convicted Jessica Hall, 25, of maliciously throwing a missile into an occupied vehicle.
A Stafford County jury convicted Jessica Hall, 25, of maliciously throwing a missile into an occupied vehicle. (By Carol Guzy -- The Washington Post)

"From my side, I heard a whoomp," recalled the woman's sister, LaJeanna Porter, 27. "I was like, 'I know you didn't throw that cup.' She said, 'Yes I did.' "

Neither woman foresaw the seemingly supersize repercussions of that misguided moment July 2.

No one was injured, but the cup launcher, Jessica Hall, 25, of Jacksonville, N.C., was charged and convicted by a Stafford County jury of maliciously throwing a missile into an occupied vehicle, a felony in Virginia. The instructions given to the jury said that "any physical object can be considered a missile. A missile can be propelled by any force, including throwing."

Hall, a mother of three young children whose husband is serving his third tour in Iraq, has spent more than a month in jail.

The jury sentenced her to two years in prison, the minimum, and a judge will formally impose a sentence Wednesday. Under state law, the judge can only decrease the jury's sentence.

"We didn't think it would go this far," Hall said in an interview at the Rappahannock Regional Jail. "Two years! What did I do?"

There are two versions of what happened that day. The occupants of both cars agree on this: It was hot, the kind of hot in which legs stick to leather seats, and the traffic was barely moving, slowed by a fatal crash up the road in Prince William County.

In one car, driver Pete Ballin, 36, and girlfriend Eliza Fowle, 28, were heading home to the District after visiting her father in North Carolina. They said they were maneuvering through the stalled traffic, not even noticing Hall until the Mickey-D moment.

"I guess we inadvertently merged back in front of her," Fowle said. "She apparently took that as some sort of aggressive maneuver on our part."

The next thing they knew, Fowle said, Hall was pulling up in the emergency lane and "chucking a big, supersized McDonald's cup at us." It flew diagonally across Ballin and onto Fowle. "It was gross and sticky and got all over me and the front of our car, the dashboard and the windshield," Fowle said.

[mdklatt]

The ***** ***** at ***** Wal-Mart who don't ***** put their ***** ***** shopping cart where it ***** ***** ***** belongs, regardless of how many days a year they shop there.

[Pricetag]

2.People who drop their cigarette butts outside. This is just nasty.
Especially the ones who think they have some kind of right to or are doing it in protest because they aren't allowed to smoke inside.

[MamaMia]

Politicians who lie.

[jacru]

people who tell me I can't shop at wal-mart. ;)

[FaninAma]

i shop at walmart because its cheaper than their competitors

both my kids have jobs, neither of them work for walmart

which is just amazing to me

So I assume you are for the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country to China and other foreign countries.. I assume you are for the price undercutting of small businesses and entrepeneurs. I assume you are for the flimsy benefits Walmart pays it's employees.

But by all means, as long as they hold the price down on your twinkies and DVD's then anything they do is all hunk-dory. Right?

[jk the sooner fan]

i dont buy twinkies nor do i buy dvds

maybe since you're a doctor you can throw your money around willy nil.....i dont know, but i pinch pennies where i can

[royalfan5]

I shop at Wal-Mart because the better they do, the more likely David Glass will open up his wallet for more quality pitching.

[JohnnyMack]

I shop at Wal-Mart because the better they do, the more likely David Glass will open up his wallet for more quality pitching.

Don't kid yourself.

[frankensooner]

When I was in Highschool I worked for TG&Y. That is why I hate Wal Mart, killer of my beloved former employer!!! ;)

[FaninAma]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701560.html

Technically she didn't litter. Her cup went from her car directly into another car. She doesn't qualify under my strict definition of a common, no-good, lazy litterbug.

[jacru]

Forget wal-mart. Who else should be in jail???

[FaninAma]

When I was in Highschool I worked for TG&Y. That is why I hate Wal Mart, killer of my beloved former employer!!! ;)

I was partial to Woolsworth.

[royalfan5]

Don't kid yourself.
He went and bought Gil Mech didn't he. I am willing to trade American Jobs for Royal's victory's.

[jacru]

So, who should be in jail because the society of your youth doesn't exist today?

[FaninAma]

i dont buy twinkies nor do i buy dvds

maybe since you're a doctor you can throw your money around willy nil.....i dont know, but i pinch pennies where i can

No, I just refuse to shop at a business that uses unethical business practices. I refuse to shop at a business that helps to drive good paying manufacturing jobs out of this country. Maybe if more people looked to shop at places where it helped keep their fellow American citizens employed they wouldn't have to penny-pinch as much.

Walmart is the f*cking devil. It is pure and unadulterated evil.
http://www.intellectualpoison.com/WalMartisPureEvil.html

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

3.People who shop at Walmart more than 2 days in a calandar year. Don't these idiots realize if they keep doing this that in the near future Walmart is going to be the only place their kids and grandkids can get a job?

People should be required to spend more for the items they want, for the public good, in order to prevent Walmart from gaining a bigger market share, because THAT'S WHAT GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

[jacru]

Walmart is the f*cking devil. It is pure and unadulterated evil.

:rolleyes:

[SoonerBorn68]

So I assume you are for the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country to China and other foreign countries.. I assume you are for the price undercutting of small businesses and entrepeneurs. I assume you are for the flimsy benefits Walmart pays it's employees.

But by all means, as long as they hold the price down on your twinkies and DVD's then anything they do is all hunk-dory. Right?

Right. I'm working in Coalgate at the moment. I spent $40 at the Mom & pop for food last week just because I was too lazy to drive to Durant to the Super Walmart. I could have bought the same food there for $25...and yes, I save receipts & do comparisons. Screw Mom & Pop. If they want to rape me on price, I'll shop there the least amount possible. I'm in it to save money for me, not make money for them & if they don't want to compete, again, screw'em. These little places around here are routinely 30-35% higher & I'm not going to play their game unless I have too.

[frankensooner]

I am so glad I live close to the Edmond Crest. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

walmart employs over one million people and they pay BILLIONS in local, state and federal taxes......yeah they're just awful for the economy

[Rhino]

People that act like they're above Wal-Mart, then turn around and shop at Albertson's, Homeland, Target or any chain (or any store that employs more then 25 people) make me chuckle.

Hey, if you can find what you need at Albert's Grocery, Bakery & Gas (if you can find one), then by all means, shop there. But you can't and you won't.

[IB4OU2]

I thought Norm liked Wal-mart too or was that Target.....I forget?

[NormanPride]

Mom&Pop places don't rape on price because they're evil, they rape on price because they can't get the economy of scale discounts that Wal-mart gets.

I personally don't like Wally world because it's a cult. Their administration and core office workers are ****ed up, from my experiences. THE FOUNDER IS DEAD, YOU SICK ****ERS. HE IS NOT COMING BACK.

[jacru]

People doing what they think is in their own best interest are bad for American and should be in jail.

[Scott D]

Politicians who lie.

that would be all of them. Especially the ones whom were lawyers in previous occupations.

[jk the sooner fan]

you clearly dont know whats best for you and your family.....since somebody else does, you should be in jail ;)

[jacru]

you clearly dont know whats best for you and your family.....since somebody else does, you should be in jail ;)
I was afraid of that.

[frankensooner]

You know who should be in jail...People convicted of crimes!!!



You know who else should be in jail? Guards! (during their shifts only)

[SoonerBorn68]

Mom&Pop places don't rape on price because they're evil, they rape on price because they can't get the economy of scale discounts that Wal-mart gets.



I never said they were evil--just higher, much higher.

And, duh. :rolleyes:

[SoonerBorn68]

People doing what they think is in their own best interest are bad for American and should be in jail.

Crap. Book me Danno!

[jacru]

People telling other people they should be in jail should be in jail.

[Hamhock]

When I was in Highschool I worked for TG&Y. That is why I hate Wal Mart, killer of my beloved former employer!!! ;)


the one in Lakeland?

[frankensooner]

No, the Supercenter out at Curts.

[Hamhock]

walmart employs over one million people and they pay BILLIONS in local, state and federal taxes......yeah they're just awful for the economy


walmart and their rich owners don't pay taxes. don't you read the boreds?

[C&CDean]

OJ Simpson

Bill Clinton

Michael Jackson

Ted Kennedy

Barry Bonds

Ray Lewis

[Hamhock]

No, the Supercenter out at Curts.


sweet. that was a favorite because the blue hairs could go next door to hancock's to get their fabric.

[FaninAma]

Right. I'm working in Coalgate at the moment. I spent $40 at the Mom & pop for food last week just because I was too lazy to drive to Durant to the Super Walmart. I could have bought the same food there for $25...and yes, I save receipts & do comparisons. Screw Mom & Pop. If they want to rape me on price, I'll shop there the least amount possible. I'm in it to save money for me, not make money for them & if they don't want to compete, again, screw'em. These little places around here are routinely 30-35% higher & I'm not going to play their game unless I have too.

It may have something to do with the fact that Walmart can force producers to sell to them at below cost. It happened to Vlassic who then had to file Chapter 11. So, I guess if it's OK that Walmart has the ability to drive big companies out of business with unfair pricing then it's OK to do it to small"Mom and Pops."

It's sad to drive through medium to small towns in OK and see the main streets all boarded up then drive out to the Super Walmart in these same towns and see the parking lot full of non-thinking consumers who can't comprehend the notion that saving a few bucks isn't worth the long term damage Walmart is doing to their communities.

What business are you in? If Walmart took a notion to go into your field of business make no mistake about it....they could undercut the prices you offer, too and you would be out of business in a heartbeat.

[jacru]

Not only are we f'n hillbillies, we're non-thinking idiots. :rolleyes:

... and we should be in jail. :D

[C&CDean]

Not only are we f'n hillbillies, we're non-thinking idiots. :rolleyes:

Well, yeah.

[jacru]

NTTAWWT :D

[FaninAma]

Not only are we f'n hillbillies, we're non-thinking idiots. :rolleyes:

... and we should be in jail. :D

I really don't think a self-respecting hillbilly would ever shop at Walmart. If I can't find it at the local hardware store, Tractor Supply, or the Apple Market in beautiful downtown ADA I doubt I can find it at Walmart or if I needed it that badly.

[SoonerBorn68]

It may have something to do with the fact that Walmart can force producers to sell to them at below cost. It happened to Vlassic who then had to file Chapter 11. So, I guess if it's OK that Walmart has the ability to drive big companies out of business with unfair pricing then it's OK to do it to small"Mom and Pops."

It's sad to drive through medium to small towns in OK and see the main streets all boarded up then drive out to the Super Walmart in these same towns and see the parking lot full of non-thinking consumers who can't comprehend the notion that saving a few bucks isn't worth the long term damage Walmart is doing to their communities.

What business are you in? If Walmart took a notion to go into your field of business make no mistake about it....they could undercut the prices you offer, too and you would be out of business in a heartbeat.

I'm in the oil business. I'm one of those people who stay out on location for 20-30 days at a time. I'm the one who gets preyed upon by the poor local shop owner or motel operator who routinely charges $60-$80 a night for a $40 dollar room when they find out it's for an oil company. I'm the one to blame that the local grocery store jacks up their prices because the oil boom.

I guess Vlasic was stupid for selling under cost. If there was a enough of a demand for their product they could have dictated to Walmart what they would sell it for. That's just bad business. It cost me a dollar to make but I'll sell it for 80 cents.

I use to work for a Ford dealership selling parts. The name of the game is undercut the competition in your wholesale market. I did that for 13 years. I understand the business world.

You know after you basically lumped me into the "non thinking" class of folks because of my practices I guess it's time to come clean.

Oh, Lincoln kicked our ever lovin' rebel asses. He's not the devil. He was not evil. He did what he thought what right for the country. History has proven it. I used to think it was cute you had true "southern" convictions but after calling Walmart the devil & many people on this board non thinking, or not understanding business, I've just come to the conclusion you might be a loon.

[jk the sooner fan]

how on earth do those other poor pickle companies remain in business.......

[FaninAma]

how on earth do those other poor pickle companies remain in business.......

Certainly not by doing business with Walmart.


Oh, Lincoln kicked our ever lovin' rebel asses.

Um, actually the poor Americans living in the North and the new immigrants into this country did all of the *** kicking. Most of the rich and well to do bought their way out of serving for the North.

Lincoln can probably thank the poor Irish and German bastards(and other immigrants) who weren't welcomed in the North anyway for doing most of the dying and ***-kicking in the war.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAcivilwarE.htm

[FaninAma]

I used to think it was cute you had true "southern" convictions but after calling Walmart the devil & many people on this board non thinking, or not understanding business, I've just come to the conclusion you might be a loon.

Must have hit a nerve.

You seriously need to talk to somebody in a small business who has had to compete against Walmart. You also need to talk to somebody who works for Walmart, especially in a lower to mid-level position.

Walmart is a modern day robber baron in the truest sense of the term. Just do me a favor...next time you drive through some of the boarded up main streets in small and medium sized towns in Oklahoma you just keep telling yourself that the cheap price of those new pumps you bought at Walmart was well worth it.

[Scott D]

the thought of 68 in pumps is very amusing.

[SoonerBorn68]

Must have hit a nerve.

You seriously need to talk to somebody in a small business who has had to compete against Walmart. You also need to talk to somebody who works for Walmart, especially in a lower to mid-level position.

Walmart is a modern day robber baron in the truest sense of the term. Just do me a favor...next time you drive through some of the boarded up main streets in small and medium sized towns in Oklahoma you just keep telling yourself that the cheap price of those new pumps you bought at Walmart was well worth it.

Pfft. No nerve hit. You just hate Walmart--good for you.

I'm livin' in these POS small & medium sized towns. I drive through them all the time. Atoka's got a small Walmart. Atoka's local businesses seem to be doing fine. Went to Ada a few days ago. Downtown didn't have any places boarded up. In fact all the little parasite businesses have grown up around the one there. Same with Durant. Lots of resteraunts & small businesses in strip malls have shown up around it. I guess those businesses that leech off of Wal-mart's traffic don't count as employers. :rolleyes:

McAlester's Walmart has helped build up that whole side of town.

Don't tell me Walmart's the devil. I've seen way more of small town Oklahoma in the last 2 years then I've ever wanted to & it seems the only people who have gone out of business have been the ones who've had bad business practices.

& yeah, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact I saved money shopping smart.

[SoonerBorn68]

the thought of 68 in pumps is very amusing.

My 285lb. frame wouldn't be so good on the heels I'm afraid. :D

[Scott D]

eh if Dean can wear em, you can too :D

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'm lost. I cant by pickles at Walmalart any more?
TF

[tommieharris91]

Must have hit a nerve.

You seriously need to talk to somebody in a small business who has had to compete against Walmart. You also need to talk to somebody who works for Walmart, especially in a lower to mid-level position.

Walmart is a modern day robber baron in the truest sense of the term. Just do me a favor...next time you drive through some of the boarded up main streets in small and medium sized towns in Oklahoma you just keep telling yourself that the cheap price of those new pumps you bought at Walmart was well worth it.

Each of your arguements are the exact reasons why I will be voting Republican in 2008.

[MamaMia]

OJ Simpson

Bill Clinton

Michael Jackson

Ted Kennedy

Barry Bonds

Ray Lewis
Thats for sure.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm lost. I cant by pickles at Walmalart any more?
TF

you can, and you can by vlasic.......you just need to know that vlasic is now owned by pinnacle foods

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

People in Coalgate should be locked up...The highest STD rate in the state, and that is shocking because every girl in Coalgate is really ugly except one that I know. I mean hell even Stringtown, Tushka, and Caney have at least 5 or 6 hot girls :P Plus Coalgate is so going to get killed by Atoka in the Boggy Bottom Classic this year :P

[FaninAma]

Pfft. No nerve hit. You just hate Walmart--good for you.

I'm livin' in these POS small & medium sized towns. I drive through them all the time. Atoka's got a small Walmart. Atoka's local businesses seem to be doing fine. Went to Ada a few days ago. Downtown didn't have any places boarded up. In fact all the little parasite businesses have grown up around the one there. Same with Durant. Lots of resteraunts & small businesses in strip malls have shown up around it. I guess those businesses that leech off of Wal-mart's traffic don't count as employers. :rolleyes:

McAlester's Walmart has helped build up that whole side of town.

Don't tell me Walmart's the devil. I've seen way more of small town Oklahoma in the last 2 years then I've ever wanted to & it seems the only people who have gone out of business have been the ones who've had bad business practices.

& yeah, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact I saved money shopping smart.

Please enlighten me about the "POS small and medium sized towns" comment. I assume you are a sophisticated urbanite , but the habit of shopping at Walmart doesn't quite fit into that picture.

Yeah there are a lot of businesses that are located next to Walmart because that's where the traffic is. Ada works very hard to keep their downtown from being empty but it's mostly service sector businesses like hair stylists, quick loan businesses, and tax accounting. The restaurants on main street are actually pretty good but the owner of the local Italian restaurant made the comment that Walmart draws off traffic and that hurts her restaurant.


I think that the town of Ada does a pretty good job of not letting their downtown turn into disrepair....I mean for a POS town and all. But it's a full time job and even with the effort and money Ada spends there is still about a 20% vacancy rate.

I really don't expect you to lose any sleep over this issue since you obviously have put so little thought into it.

In the Lil Abner comic strip there was a character named General Bull Moose(a charactiture of GMC) and he always used to say that whatever was good for General Bull Moose(GMC) was good for America. Walmart needs to use a variation of that saying: "Whatever is good for Walmart is good for China."

But hey, a corporation that scams thousands of it's employees on overtime can't be all bad.

[FaninAma]

Each of your arguements are the exact reasons why I will be voting Republican in 2008.

That's quite a leap in logic there. Care to enlighten us on how a giant, unethical corporation's practice of crushing smaller competition attracts you to the GOP party?

I'm pretty sure Walmart is a non-partisan robber barron and pays lots in tribute to both parties.

[jk the sooner fan]

I really don't expect you to lose any sleep over this issue since you obviously have put so little thought into it.



so if we put the required amount of thought into things, will we be able to think just like you?

[jacru]

Not only are we f'n hillbillies, we're non-thinking idiots.

... and we should be in jail.


I really don't think a self-respecting hillbilly would ever shop at Walmart. If I can't find it at the local hardware store, Tractor Supply, or the Apple Market in beautiful downtown ADA I doubt I can find it at Walmart or if I needed it that badly.
Not only are we f'n hillbillies, we're non-thinking idiots with no self-respect.

... and we should still be in jail.:D


People, help me keep up with the epithets as he adds them.:rolleyes:

[FaninAma]

so if we put the required amount of thought into things, will we be able to think just like you?

It would help. I think it would help if Sooner68 just reread his own post carefully and he'll see he made exactly one of the same points I've been making:

Walmart offers cheap products, undercuts local small bussinesses and draws traffic and new businesses away from the downtown area. But, according to him this hasn't hurt the affected downtowns. Sorry, but that incrongruency doesn't indicate a lot of thought.

His statement about the POS smaller towns , IMHO, could be taken a sign that a lot of thought did not go into his post, either.

[FaninAma]

Not only are we f'n hillbillies, we're non-thinking idiots with no self-respect.

... and we should still be in jail.:D


People, help me keep up with the epithets as he adds them.:rolleyes:

Hey, if the pumps fit, wear them proudly. There is a ten step program for becoming a self-respecting hillbilly. Step one is to quit shopping at Walmart.

[SicEmBaylor]

It would help. I think it would help if Sooner68 just reread his own post carefully and he'll see he made exactly one of the same points I've been making:

Walmart offers cheap products, undercuts local small bussinesses and draws traffic and new businesses away from the downtown area. But, according to him this hasn't hurt the affected downtowns. Sorry, but that incrongruency doesn't indicate a lot of thought.

His statement about the POS smaller towns , IMHO, could be taken a sign that a lot of thought did not go into his post, either.

I agree with you. It amazes me sometimes that conservatives, who rightfully warn against big government, turn a blind eye toward big business. Capitalism is great, but places like Wal-Mart have done some serious damage to that traditional community. Especially in those "POS small towns" that I like to call "real America."

[jacru]

Hey, if the pumps fit, wear them proudly. There is a ten step program for becoming a self-respecting hillbilly. Step one is to quit shopping at Walmart.
Give me the other steps, just in case I "see the light" someday.

[SoonerBorn68]

First Mr. FaninAma, I'm beginning to think you think you're better than everyone else on this board. Your smuggness is getting old. I was raised in rural McClain County--but I was born in Norman if that counts.

I worked at Wal-Mart for 6 years many moons ago. I was paid 3.85 an hour in 1986--just above minimum wage. I put my time in. I got worked hard. I got promoted. Most of the people you see with the gold & silver name tags are making more than $10 an hour--A much better salary than working at the local grocer. They have a decent retirement plan if you can get totally vested. At least WalMart offers insurance that's affordable. The car dealership I worked for offered health insurance but it cost over $700 a month. I couldn't afford it.

It's funny, the passion you have for hating Walmart would make the anti capitalistic Commies very, very happy.

[FaninAma]

I agree with you. It amazes me sometimes that conservatives, who rightfully warn against big government, turn a blind eye toward big business. Capitalism is great, but places like Wal-Mart have done some serious damage to that traditional community. Especially in those "POS small towns" that I like to call "real America."

Towns who depend on their small businesses and a vibrant downtown to keep their communities appealing to outsiders fight tooth and nail to keep Super Walmarts from coming in. I know Taos, NM was doing this although I don't know how that battle turned out.

[jacru]

People Who Should Be In Jail: Those found guilty who haven't yet served their full sentence

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I agree with you. It amazes me sometimes that conservatives, who rightfully warn against big government, turn a blind eye toward big business. Capitalism is great, but places like Wal-Mart have done some serious damage to that traditional community. Especially in those "POS small towns" that I like to call "real America."What would you have the govt. do to Walmart, to make them raise their prices to meet the "competition"?(to protect the inefficient stores who charge more)? Dude, you have become a democrat!

[SoonerBorn68]

His statement about the POS smaller towns , IMHO, could be taken a sign that a lot of thought did not go into his post, either.

Oh, I'm livin' it out here--and know exactly what I'm talking about. My ivory tower is an RV--what's yours?

[tommieharris91]

That's quite a leap in logic there. Care to enlighten us on how a giant, unethical corporation's practice of crushing smaller competition attracts you to the GOP party?

I'm pretty sure Walmart is a non-partisan robber barron and pays lots in tribute to both parties.

Simple. Most of the time, I don't care about baseless claims of non-ethics by an employer. I believe in free-market capitalism. If one firm is able to serve its customers better than another firm, then it will earn the business. As long as grocery and hardware stores can compete with Wal-Mart, the big bad behemoth will always be forced to lower their prices (and their profit) to attract customers away from other companies. Contrary to your belief, there are plenty of small businesses that can attract business away from the Wal-Marts of the world. They just gotta find their niche.

I know that you'll come back with some "Well they don't know their niche, and big business will take their business" whiny post. Well, in order to compete with big businesses, they need to find a way to please their customers better, whether it's with lower prices, better products, or better service. Taking advantage of other's mistakes (not serving current customers, keeping prices high) isn't "unethical", it survival of the fittest.

[SCOUT]

I hear complaints against companies like WalMart and Microsoft all the time. Both companies started out small, leveraged their offerings and ultimately became hugely successful giants.

My question is, at what time does a company become too successful?

[usmc-sooner]

SoonerWill should be in jail.

[tommieharris91]

What would you have the govt. do to Walmart, to make them raise their prices to meet the "competition"?(to protect the inefficient stores who charge more)? Dude, you have become a democrat!

Price ceilings and floors = socialism.

[Vaevictis]

Wal-Mart is just as powerful as the robber barons, this much is true.

The difference between Wal-Mart and the robber barons is that Wal-Mart maintains its position not by erecting anti-competitive barriers, but by erecting what I'll call hyper-competitive barriers. They are so good at what they do, and have such purchasing power that nobody can hope to match them. Nobody can compete with them on price.

The thing is, isn't this what capitalism is supposed to deliver? Efficient businesses that can deliver the most value for the least buck, culled from the herd of other businesses that couldn't? We're capitalists in America, so what the **** are we complaining for? Right?

So while I'm going to preface the following by stating that I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart, here's really what it all boils down to:

Hey! Mr. Non Wal-Mart Retailer! Yes, YOU! You can't hope to compete on price with Wal-Mart. Get that right out of your head. It will never happen. You WILL have prices higher than Wal-Mart. That much is fact. So here's what you have to do if you want to survive: ADD VALUE TO THE PURCHASE THAT JUSTIFIES THE HIGHER PRICE. The fact that people are going to Wal-Mart in droves is by itself sufficient to prove that you aren't.

We, the consumer, have no responsibility to provide a reason for you to exist. Neither does Wal-Mart. No, having a reason to exist is your responsibility, and if you can't find one, extinction is the natural and righteous end for you.

Sincerely,
The American Consumer

[FaninAma]

First Mr. FaninAma, I'm beginning to think you think you're better than everyone else on this board. Your smuggness is getting old. I was raised in rural McClain County--but I was born in Norman if that counts.

I worked at Wal-Mart for 6 years many moons ago. I was paid 3.85 an hour in 1986--just above minimum wage. I put my time in. I got worked hard. I got promoted. Most of the people you see with the gold & silver name tags are making more than $10 an hour--A much better salary than working at the local grocer. They have a decent retirement plan if you can get totally vested. At least WalMart offers insurance that's affordable. The car dealership I worked for offered health insurance but it cost over $700 a month. I couldn't afford it.

It's funny, the passion you have for hating Walmart would make the anti capitalistic Commies very, very happy.

Conversley I find your irritation with my attack on Walmart(and the people who shop there frequently) very entertaining. I didn't categorize you in anyway...you're indignation at my posts did that. My only criticism of frequent Walmart shoppers(which include my mother, BTW) is that you have placed the principle of getting a cheap price over other principles.

BTW, I've dealt with families that are covered by Walmart's health insurance and it's not very good at all. Plus they have all kinds of stipulations about who's covered and who's not.

And let's not even get into how Walmart treats their employess...although that is probably a little better now that Walmart has lost several multi-million dollar lawsuits for cheating their employess on their overtime.

Saving money is an admirable goal. Supporting the businesses of your neighbors and supporting businesses that don't use unethical competitive pratices are more admirable goals.

[Vaevictis]

And the same goes double for Wal-Mart's suppliers:

If you can't survive without Wal-Mart's business, and you can't deliver at a price Wal-Mart is willing to buy at, then extinction is the natural and righteous end for you.

[Mongo]

People Who Should Be In Jail

damn dirty threadjackers

[SicEmBaylor]

What would you have the govt. do to Walmart, to make them raise their prices to meet the "competition"?(to protect the inefficient stores who charge more)? Dude, you have become a democrat!

I neither said I wanted the government to do something about it nor do I support them doing so. What I do support is individuals regulating capitalism with their own wallets.

[SoonerBorn68]

Walmart is the f*cking devil. It is pure and unadulterated evil.

That set me off.

I think doctors are just puppets for the big pharmicutical companies & overcharge and defraud insurance companies which in turn raise everyone's rates, but I digress.

:twinkies:

[FaninAma]

And the same goes double for Wal-Mart's suppliers:

If you can't survive without Wal-Mart's business, and you can't deliver at a price Wal-Mart is willing to buy at, then extinction is the natural and righteous end for you.

I tend to agree. If you're doing business with Satan you might also expect to catch a pitchfork in the *** now and again.

[Vaevictis]

I tend to agree. If you're doing business with Satan you might also expect to catch a pitchfork in the *** now and again.

It really has nothing to do with doing business with Satan. It's just a natural law of capitalism: If it's your business to do something, and you're incapable of doing it, you're not going to last long.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

:eek:
Wal-Mart is just as powerful as the robber barons, this much is true.

The difference between Wal-Mart and the robber barons is that Wal-Mart maintains its position not by erecting anti-competitive barriers, but by erecting what I'll call hyper-competitive barriers. They are so good at what they do, and have such purchasing power that nobody can hope to match them. Nobody can compete with them on price.

The thing is, isn't this what capitalism is supposed to deliver? Efficient businesses that can deliver the most value for the least buck, culled from the herd of other businesses that couldn't? We're capitalists in America, so what the **** are we complaining for? Right?

So while I'm going to preface the following by stating that I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart, here's really what it all boils down to:

Hey! Mr. Non Wal-Mart Retailer! Yes, YOU! You can't hope to compete on price with Wal-Mart. Get that right out of your head. It will never happen. You WILL have prices higher than Wal-Mart. That much is fact. So here's what you have to do if you want to survive: ADD VALUE TO THE PURCHASE THAT JUSTIFIES THE HIGHER PRICE. The fact that people are going to Wal-Mart in droves is by itself sufficient to prove that you aren't.

We, the consumer, have no responsibility to provide a reason for you to exist. Neither does Wal-Mart. No, having a reason to exist is your responsibility, and if you can't find one, extinction is the natural and righteous end for you.

Sincerely,
The American Consumer:eek: :D Way to go, tiger!

[tommieharris91]

And the same goes double for Wal-Mart's suppliers:

If you can't survive without Wal-Mart's business, and you can't deliver at a price Wal-Mart is willing to buy at, then extinction is the natural and righteous end for you.

This isn't exactly true. If you can't deliver to Wal-Mart at their price, there are others who can buy what you make at the price you can offer, assuming of course, there is a demand for your product at the price you set.

[Vaevictis]

This isn't exactly true. If you can't deliver to Wal-Mart at their price, there are others who can buy what you make at the price you can offer.

If you can't survive without Wal-Mart's business, how does selling to other people help you?

[Vaevictis]

:eek: :eek: :D Way to go, tiger!

Heh, just because I'm a "lib" and someone who thinks unrestrained capitalism is just as bad as unrestrained socialism... well, let's just say that doesn't mean I don't know how to run a business. :D

[SoonerGirl06]

No, I just refuse to shop at a business that uses unethical business practices. I refuse to shop at a business that helps to drive good paying manufacturing jobs out of this country.

With all due respect... doesn't that include just about every country in America?



Maybe if more people looked to shop at places where it helped keep their fellow American citizens employed they wouldn't have to penny-pinch as much.


Again, with all due respect... last time I shopped at Walmart I saw a lot of Americans working there.

[SoonerGirl06]

You know who should be in jail...People convicted of crimes!!!


Ahhh... yes! That would be nice, wouldn't it?

[SoonerGirl06]

People telling other people they should be in jail should be in jail.


You absolutely crack me up!


I'd spek ya... but apparently I need to spread some reputation around. :(

[FaninAma]

[b][/i]

That set me off.

I think doctors are just puppets for the big pharmicutical companies & overcharge and defraud insurance companies which in turn raise everyone's rates, but I digress.

:twinkies:

I would agree with you. I also think the AMA is a front organization for the powerful surgical specialties and that's why we've ended up with a health care system where 80+% of the health care money is spent on people in their last 6 months of life.

But again, that's what happens when you allow profits to trump other principles.

I really didn't set out to **** anybody off with this thread. I did intend to draw out opposing view points.

I'm a big Ayn Rand fan and this discription of America in her book Atlas Shrugged has always stuck with me:


The great oak tree had stood on a hill over the Hudson, in a lonely spot of the Taggart estate. Eddie Willers, aged seven, liked to come and look at that tree. It had stood there for hundreds of years, and he thought it would always stand there. Its roots clutched the hill like a fist with fingers sunk into the soil, and he thought that if a giant were to seize it by the top, he would not be able to uproot it, but would swing the hill and the whole of the earth with it, like a ball at the end of a string. He felt safe in the oak tree's presence; it was a thing that nothing could change or threaten; it was his greatest symbol of strength.
One night, lightning struck the oak tree. Eddie saw it the next morning. It lay broken in half, and he looked into its trunk as into the mouth of a black tunnel. The trunk was only an empty shell; its heart had rotted away long ago; there was nothing inside -- just a thin gray dust that was being dispersed by the whim of the faintest wind. The living power had gone, and the shape it left had not been able to stand without it.
Years later, he heard it said that children should be protected from shock, from their first knowledge of death, pain or fear. But these had never scarred him; his shock came when he stood very quietly, looking into the black hole of the trunk. It was an immense betrayal -- the more terrible because he could not grasp what it was that had been betrayed. It was not himself, he knew, nor his trust; it was something else. He stood there for a while, making no sound, then he walked back to the house. He never spoke about it to anyone, then or since.

So New York's Fifth Avenue is a prosperous street, by contemporary standards, because "not more than every fourth one of the stores was out of business, its windows dark and empty.

And I view the shuttering of mainstreet America(literally) and the shuttering of American manufacturing(figuratively) to be symptomatic of the insidious hollowing out of American culture. And, IMO, Walmart contributes to both.

[VeeJay]

All this anti-Wal-Mart hatred is amusing but sad at the same time. Normally, the union folks are the ones to gripe about WM's "tactics."

Poor unions can't get a foothold in the world's biggest retailer. Boo Hoo.

1. No one is forcing anyone into a life of slavery wearing a Wal-Mart vest.

2. Wal-Mart's a tough negotiator; talk to suppliers and you will find out they are fair and ethical. (Vlasic is a classic business failure story. They were wildly successful with WM until WM insisted on supplying all stores with the "gallon size" jar they introduced - but at WM's demanded price. Vlasic had the option of walking away from that pursuit). Someone running the numbers at Vlasic was unfocused, rolled the dice, or wasn't able to cut costs sufficient to turn a profit.

3. Driving jobs out of the U.S. is pure bullsh*t. Go into Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, Target, or any other darlings of the Left and see how much of their crap is also MADE IN CHINA. This didn't just start since Bush got elected.

WM is the big kid on the block, so they're the one everyone wants knocked off, and they're the poster child for the romanticism of anti-corporate, anti-capitalist hypocrisy of John Edwards-ism.

If Hillary weren't from Arkansas and a former member of WM's Board of Directors, would she also be jumping on the anti-WM band wagon?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Heh, just because I'm a "lib" and someone who thinks unrestrained capitalism is just as bad as unrestrained socialism... well, let's just say that doesn't mean I don't know how to run a business. :DI knew your moment of clarity had a need for some govt. interference. What would you have them do to Walmart?

[FaninAma]

With all due respect... doesn't that include just about every country in America?





Again, with all due respect... last time I shopped at Walmart I saw a lot of Americans working there.

Yes, you are correct. But what are the odds of your children ever being able to start their own business in the retail sector when they have to compete aginst Walmart.

It's the loss of opportunity for my kids that I lament. Sure they can get decent paying jobs.....working for somebody else. There are fewer and fewer sectors where the possibility of owning your own business remains a real goal.

[JohnnyMack]

I don't like Wal-Mart.

Doesn't mean I think Fan isn't crazy.

I just don't shop at Wal-Mart.

[SoonerGirl06]

I neither said I wanted the government to do something about it nor do I support them doing so. What I do support is individuals regulating capitalism with their own wallets.


I think that's what most individuals are doing when they shop at Walmart.

[FaninAma]

All this anti-Wal-Mart hatred is amusing but sad at the same time. Normally, the union folks are the ones to gripe about WM's "tactics."

Poor unions can't get a foothold in the world's biggest retailer. Boo Hoo.

1. No one is forcing anyone into a life of slavery wearing a Wal-Mart vest.

2. Wal-Mart's a tough negotiator; talk to suppliers and you will find out they are fair and ethical.

3. Driving jobs out of the U.S. is pure bullsh*t. Go into Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, Target, or any other darlings of the Left and see how much of their crap is also MADE IN CHINA.

WM is the big kid on the block, so they're the one everyone wants knocked off, and they're the poster child for the romanticism of anti-corporate, anti-capitalist hypocrisy of John Edwards-ism.

If Hillary weren't from Arkansas and a former member of WM's Board of Directors, would she also be jumping on the anti-WM band wagon?

I don't disagree with a word you said. But please don't make this a partisan issue. The real villain in all of this is the American consumer. His/her spending habits are what drives this mega-trend and allows the politicians to cozy up to the retailing giants.

[SCOUT]

Yes, you are correct. But what are the odds of your children ever being able to start their own business in the retail sector when they have to compete aginst Walmart.

It's the loss of opportunity for my kids that I lament. Sure they can get decent paying jobs.....working for somebody else. There are fewer and fewer sectors where the possibility of owning your own business remains a real goal.

WalMart offers tremendous diversity of products at a cut rate. If you want to start your own business in the retail sector then it would be a good idea to not directly compete with the largest retail company in the world.

A good example are BBQ stores. There are several of them in Plano. They specialize which is something WalMart can't do. They are leveraging a niche (as many have recommended in this thread) and doing quite well. Their prices are definitely higher than WalMart but they carry 5 different kinds of lump charcoal, hundreds of rubs etc.

If you can't compete directly you should adapt to something else. I would disagree with your contention that there are fewer and fewer sectors. I would say that there are fewer and fewer traditional sectors, but more and more new ones.

[FaninAma]

I don't like Wal-Mart.

Doesn't mean I think Fan isn't crazy.

I just don't shop at Wal-Mart.

I always admire people who can so eloquently advance their argument without resorting to name calling.

[JohnnyMack]

I always admire people who can so eloquently advance their argument without resorting to name calling.

I wasn't trying to advance an argument. I was just stating that:

1. I don't shop at Wal-Mart

2. I don't think you're not crazy.

That's all.

:)

[Vaevictis]

I knew your moment of clarity had a need for some govt. interference. What would you have them do to Walmart?

No need at this time. Wal-Mart has earned and maintained their position through legitimate competition.

And while I dislike the fact that so many jobs are going overseas, I think that the fact that they are is just an unfortunate result of the disparity of wealth between our country and the country those jobs are being shipped to. And I know that while there will be tough times, eventually, it will even out if everyone continues to outsource; we ourselves will have our wealth lowered and theirs increased, and eventually, wages will even out. It will then become more profitable to relocate manufacturing jobs Stateside due to lowered transport costs. In short, I view the current cycle as a painful readjustment period -- one that may take a long time and hurt a lot of people -- but totally natural, given our economic system.

[royalfan5]

Wal-Mart is merely the boogeyman of the moment. Just like General Motors was once, as McDonald's was, as someone else will be in the future. Wal-Mart's day will pass. Their stock has been stuck in neutral for sometime now, and on CNBC they were discussing if Lee Scott needs to be canned. Wal-Mart has struggled overseas because they can't leverage logistics like they can here. They have no competencies beyond being low cost, and culture has shown that it can evolve. The United States is a mature market for them. As much as people gnash their teeth about Wal-Mart, and it's effects, we've likely seen their high tide, and soon enough there will be a new boogeyman.

[SoonerGirl06]

Yes, you are correct. But what are the odds of your children ever being able to start their own business in the retail sector when they have to compete aginst Walmart.

I don't see anyone not being able to start their own business in the retail sector when they have to compete with Wal-Mart... in fact in the area where I live there are multiple retail businesses around the Wal-Mart store and more are being developed each and everyday. As far as future generations being able to do the same... I don't see that being a problem. Everything evolves.... and I think competition is good... it brings out the best in people.


It's the loss of opportunity for my kids that I lament. Sure they can get decent paying jobs.....working for somebody else. There are fewer and fewer sectors where the possibility of owning your own business remains a real goal.

Are you kidding me? Have you not heard of YouTube? They started with a small idea just a few years ago and look where they are now? They're worth billions! For you to take that view in my opinion is just an excuse and limits yours and your childrens possibilites.

The opportunities that are out there now far out number the opportunities that were out there for us years ago. So who's to say that years from now there aren't going to be more opportunities for future generations... only those with limited thinking... IMHO.

[FaninAma]

I wasn't trying to advance an argument. I was just stating that:

1. I don't shop at Wal-Mart

2. I don't think you're not crazy.

That's all.

:)

Thanks for clearing that up. But I would prefer the term eccentric.:cool:

[FaninAma]

I don't see anyone not being able to start their own business in the retail sector when they have to compete with Wal-Mart... in fact in the area where I live there are multiple retail businesses around the Wal-Mart store and more are being developed each and everyday. As far as future generations being able to do the same... I don't see that being a problem. Everything evolves.... and I think competition is good... it brings out the best in people.



Are you kidding me? Have you not heard of YouTube? They started with a small idea just a few years ago and look where they are now? They're worth billions! For you to take that view in my opinion is just an excuse and limits yours and your childrens possibilites.

The opportunities that are out there now far out number the opportunities that were out there for us years ago. So who's to say that years from now there aren't going to be more opportunities for future generations... only those with limited thinking... IMHO.

How many business owners do you know personally?

[SoonerGirl06]

How many business owners do you know personally?


I know several.

[SicEmBaylor]

Are you kidding me? Have you not heard of YouTube? They started with a small idea just a few years ago and look where they are now? They're worth billions! For you to take that view in my opinion is just an excuse and limits yours and your childrens possibilites.


But it isn't just about having a business. To me, it's about being able to start up a business in your local community and getting to know your customers and positioning yourself as a community institution. There's things about owning a private small business besides the business itself.

[AlbqSooner]

I always admire people who can so eloquently advance their argument without resorting to name calling.
Out of curiousity, would that include names like f'n hillbillies with no self respect or Irish and German bastards? Your inability to perceive your own name calling harkens back to the days of the Terri Schiavo discussions in which name calling was so commonplace. Give it a break Fanin. Oh, and your comment about the AMA being a front - what do the last 3 letters of your screen name refer to? Before you start sling the poop, perhaps your should wipe your ***.

[FaninAma]

Wal-Mart is merely the boogeyman of the moment. Just like General Motors was once, as McDonald's was, as someone else will be in the future. Wal-Mart's day will pass. Their stock has been stuck in neutral for sometime now, and on CNBC they were discussing if Lee Scott needs to be canned. Wal-Mart has struggled overseas because they can't leverage logistics like they can here. They have no competencies beyond being low cost, and culture has shown that it can evolve. The United States is a mature market for them. As much as people gnash their teeth about Wal-Mart, and it's effects, we've likely seen their high tide, and soon enough there will be a new boogeyman.

One of the reasons they have struggled overseas is because the government of other countries have recognized how anti-competitive they really are and they are regulated more in those countries.

[SoonerGirl06]

But it isn't just about having a business. To me, it's about being able to start up a business in your local community and getting to know your customers and positioning yourself as a community institution. There's things about owning a private small business besides the business itself.


I completely agree...

[royalfan5]

One of the reasons they have struggled overseas is because the government of other countries have recognized how anti-competitive they really are and they are regulated more in those countries.
More of it is cultural and infrastructural failures on Wal-Marts part because Carrefour isn't having much problems kicking *** overseas, and they are basically French Wal-Mart.

[SoonerGirl06]

One of the reasons they have struggled overseas is because the government of other countries have recognized how anti-competitive they really are and they are regulated more in those countries.


So the fact that the governments of other countries don't believe in Capitalism isn't a reason for their regulation of Wal-Mart?

[Hamhock]

I think Abraham Lincoln would have liked walmart.

[royalfan5]

I think Abraham Lincoln would have liked walmart.
but Jeff Davis would have shopped there all the time.

[FaninAma]

Out of curiousity, would that include names like f'n hillbillies with no self respect or Irish and German bastards? Your inability to perceive your own name calling harkens back to the days of the Terri Schiavo discussions in which name calling was so commonplace. Give it a break Fanin. Oh, and your comment about the AMA being a front - what do the last 3 letters of your screen name refer to? Before you start sling the poop, perhaps your should wipe your ***.

Do you really not see the difference between personal name calling and a reference to a larger group. BTW, I consider my family to be part of the lager group of Irish bastards that immigrtated to this country. Now if I called you a clueless bastard then that would violate the board policy. I don't think referring to those who did a lot of the fighting and dying in Lincoln's war as "poor bastards" would qualify.

But if you can give an example of where I engaged in personal name calling then clue me in.

I will try to remember your very sensitive nature for future reference. And can I assume that you are another satisfied Walmart shopper?

[FaninAma]

I know several.

How many are in the non-service sector?

[SoonerGirl06]

I will try to remember your very sensitive nature for future reference. And can I assume that you are another satisfied Walmart shopper?


I am a satisfied Wal-Mart Shopper... and I'm no f'in hillbilly.

BTW... if this thread continues I suggest renaming it to F'in Hillbillies Shop at Wal-Mart because that's basically what you're sayin'... I'm just sayin'... :D

[AlbqSooner]

Do you really not see the difference between personal name calling and a reference to a larger group.
I will try to remember your very sensitive nature for future reference. And can I assume that you are another satisfied Walmart shopper?
I see a difference in degree, not in kind. I would prefer that you not assume anything about me since you do not know anything about me. I would also be curious as to what the last three letters in your screen name refer to. Surely not that nefarious organization which you so castigated in your earlier post.:D

[SoonerGirl06]

How many are in the non-service sector?


Non-Service sector... Hmmm... don't all businesses provide a service?

[FaninAma]

Wal-Mart is just as powerful as the robber barons, this much is true.

The difference between Wal-Mart and the robber barons is that Wal-Mart maintains its position not by erecting anti-competitive barriers, but by erecting what I'll call hyper-competitive barriers. They are so good at what they do, and have such purchasing power that nobody can hope to match them. Nobody can compete with them on price.

The thing is, isn't this what capitalism is supposed to deliver? Efficient businesses that can deliver the most value for the least buck, culled from the herd of other businesses that couldn't? We're capitalists in America, so what the **** are we complaining for? Right?

So while I'm going to preface the following by stating that I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart, here's really what it all boils down to:

Hey! Mr. Non Wal-Mart Retailer! Yes, YOU! You can't hope to compete on price with Wal-Mart. Get that right out of your head. It will never happen. You WILL have prices higher than Wal-Mart. That much is fact. So here's what you have to do if you want to survive: ADD VALUE TO THE PURCHASE THAT JUSTIFIES THE HIGHER PRICE. The fact that people are going to Wal-Mart in droves is by itself sufficient to prove that you aren't.

We, the consumer, have no responsibility to provide a reason for you to exist. Neither does Wal-Mart. No, having a reason to exist is your responsibility, and if you can't find one, extinction is the natural and righteous end for you.

Sincerely,
The American Consumer

You couldn't be more wrong. Walmart frequently engages in the fine art of undercutting the competition even if they take a loss on a certain line of products. Their enormous buying power allows them to get price concessiosn from suppliers that local retailers can't get. Their direct pipeline from China and foreign suppliers, where workers are woefully underpaid, gives them a huge advantage over local reatilers. Their diversity allows them to absorb losses in one area by making it up in another.

They exactly like the robber barrons like Standard Oil with one exception, they are better at making their money on the backend.....holding down labor costs and having an apparent inehaustable source of cheap products from China.

The American consumer has a problem with an addiction to cheap foreign products and Walmart is only too happy to act in th role as the dope dealer....figuratively speaking.

You really need to add a PS to your letter: We don't really care that American manufacturing has gone down the toilet or that the workers in the countries where you procur your products subsist on ungodly low wages and work in very poor working conditions, or that you've driven most local reatilers out of busuness(many of whom were our friends and neighbors).....just keep those cheap products coming.

[SicEmBaylor]

I hate to admit this...

I forgot to pick up a damned report cover for a paper due tomorrow. It just occured to me that I forgot to pick one up at the campus bookstore today, so I have to run to Wal-Mart and pick one up.

[FaninAma]

I am a satisfied Wal-Mart Shopper... and I'm no f'in hillbilly.

BTW... if this thread continues I suggest renaming it to F'in Hillbillies Shop at Wal-Mart because that's basically what you're sayin'... I'm just sayin'... :D

1st of all I didn't bring the term f'in hillbilly into the discussion.

Secondly, I do consider myself to be a f'in hillbilly, but a discrminating(good taste wise, not racist) f'in hillbilly.

Oh, and I've thought of retail sectors where you can compete with Walmart.....those where quality matters.

And oh, I forgot. :D. In fact this whole thread needs a gigantic :D .

I do dislike Walmart with a passion but I would like some of you who shop there at least think about the consequences of shopping at a huge, faceless corporation where the sole reason for existence is to increase profits and increase stock price. Walmart has no vested interest in your community other than how much money they can suck out of it.

[FaninAma]

I hate to admit this...

I forgot to pick up a damned report cover for a paper due tomorrow. It just occured to me that I forgot to pick one up at the campus bookstore today, so I have to run to Wal-Mart and pick one up.

Watch out, too many screw ups like this and you'll get your crazy, libertarian/populist card revoked.:P

[Vaevictis]

You couldn't be more wrong. Walmart frequently engages in the fine art of undercutting the competition even if they take a loss on a certain line of products.

Is the purpose to get people in the doors (marketing), or is it to kill the competition (predatory pricing)? One is legal (and ethical), the other isn't.

I suspect that because we've not seen any zealous NY AG's suing them, it's not provable in any case.


Their enormous buying power allows them to get price concessiosn from suppliers that local retailers can't get. Their direct pipeline from China and foreign suppliers, where workers are woefully underpaid, gives them a huge advantage over local reatilers.

This is what we call "capitalism." This is how it's meant to work. If it weren't Wal-Mart, it would (eventually) be someone else.

(This is not to say that I agree with everything Wal-Mart is doing, I'm just saying -- dude, the system is rigged to ultimately produce some kind of Wal-Mart, Standard Oil, US Steel, etc. Ranting about Wal-Mart is pointless, as Wal-Mart is just a symptom, not the underlying cause.)


You really need to add a PS to your letter: We don't really care that American manufacturing has gone down the toilet or that the workers in the countries where you procur your products subsist on ungodly low wages and work in very poor working conditions, or that you've driven most local reatilers out of busuness(many of whom were our friends and neighbors).....just keep those cheap products coming.

Welcome to capitalism. Sure, it's the most efficient way of creating and distributing wealth we've got, but like anything -- there's a trade off.

Entities like Wal-Mart are one of the trade offs.

[FaninAma]

Is the purpose to get people in the doors (marketing), or is it to kill the competition (predatory pricing)? One is legal (and ethical), the other isn't.

I suspect that because we've not seen any zealous NY AG's suing them, it's not provable in any case.



This is what we call "capitalism." This is how it's meant to work. If it weren't Wal-Mart, it would (eventually) be someone else.

(This is not to say that I agree with everything Wal-Mart is doing, I'm just saying -- dude, the system is rigged to ultimately produce some kind of Wal-Mart, Standard Oil, US Steel, etc. Ranting about Wal-Mart is pointless, as Wal-Mart is just a symptom, not the underlying cause.)



Welcome to capitalism. Sure, it's the most efficient way of creating and distributing wealth we've got, but like anything -- there's a trade off.

Entities like Wal-Mart are one of the trade offs.

I'll be all too happy to rant about some other large corporation that subsists soley for sucking a profit out of a community(or country) and increasing its stock price without any regards for the effects its policies have on the communities in which it operates.

Just give me a name. Walmart just jumps to mind because it has it's grimy little tentacles imbedded in almost every street corner, semingly.

And I never claimed to be a free trader. Our country has always used tariffs when they were
deemed to be in our national interest. A few well-place tariffs on imports from China and elsewhere would really be interesting in regards to the effects on Walmart. The problem is it would be too late to turn around the loss of manufacuring indistries in this country.

[SoonerGirl06]

In fact this whole thread needs a gigantic :D


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D




Are ya happy now? :D

[tommieharris91]

I don't disagree with a word you said. But please don't make this a partisan issue. The real villain in all of this is the American consumer. His/her spending habits are what drives this mega-trend and allows the politicians to cozy up to the retailing giants.

Sir, I must now call you a socialist for attacking the American consumer that is free to take their money and spend it anywhere they want. Ohh, and I consider myself a very libertarian thinker as well. I just happen to agree with Republicans on 2 key issues to me: abortion and economy.

[Vaevictis]

I'll be all too happy to rant about some other large corporation that subsists soley for sucking a profit out of a community(or country) and increasing its stock price without any regards for the effects its policies have on the communities in which it operates.

Just give me a name. Walmart just jumps to mind because it has it's grimy little tentacles imbedded in almost every street corner, semingly.

Pick a company out of the S&P 500 at random. You probably have a company that fits the bill.

Fact is, companies, investors and executives are financially incentivized to behave like this. That's capitalism (TM).


And I never claimed to be a free trader. Our country has always used tariffs when they were deemed to be in our national interest. A few well-place tariffs on imports from China and elsewhere would really be interesting in regards to the effects on Walmart. The problem is it would be too late to turn around the loss of manufacuring indistries in this country.

Pure capitalism implies free trade. Which brings me back to unrestrained capitalism being just as bad as unrestrained socialism. ;)

All I'm really saying is, when you worship at the altar of Capitalism, Wal-Mart (or US Steel, or Standard Oil...) is the miracle your god delivers (so to speak). If you decide that there's a problem, then you really ought to recognize that the root is in the system, not in the company.

[FaninAma]

Sir, I must now call you a socialist for attacking the American consumer that is free to take their money and spend it anywhere they want. Ohh, and I consider myself a very libertarian thinker as well. I just happen to agree with Republicans on 2 key issues to me: abortion and economy.

You may call it sociaism, I call it economic populism. And when has this country just opened it's boders to foreign goods regardless of the effects on businesses located in the US?

Can the country actually survive and prosper on a service sector dominated economy? I have my doubts.

[tommieharris91]

You couldn't be more wrong. Walmart frequently engages in the fine art of undercutting the competition even if they take a loss on a certain line of products. Their enormous buying power allows them to get price concessiosn from suppliers that local retailers can't get. Their direct pipeline from China and foreign suppliers, where workers are woefully underpaid, gives them a huge advantage over local reatilers. Their diversity allows them to absorb losses in one area by making it up in another.

They exactly like the robber barrons like Standard Oil with one exception, they are better at making their money on the backend.....holding down labor costs and having an apparent inehaustable source of cheap products from China.

The American consumer has a problem with an addiction to cheap foreign products and Walmart is only too happy to act in th role as the dope dealer....figuratively speaking.

You really need to add a PS to your letter: We don't really care that American manufacturing has gone down the toilet or that the workers in the countries where you procur your products subsist on ungodly low wages and work in very poor working conditions, or that you've driven most local reatilers out of busuness(many of whom were our friends and neighbors).....just keep those cheap products coming.

Well, I'm probably not the best person to comment on this part of the argument because I don't understand Heckscher-Ohlin economics very well right now, but I'll say what I think.

As long as labor can be found at a lower price than what is in the US, firms will outsource jobs (and resources) to countries with hands willing to make the products demanded. I really don't blame ANY firm, big or small, that does this in order to cut costs and increase profits. Besides, every consumer is addicted to the good that best fit their needs at the lowest cost to them.


"The only goal of a firm is to increase it's profits."

[SoonerGirl06]

Well, I'm probably not the best person to comment on this part of the argument because I don't understand Heckscher-Ohlin economics very well right now, but I'll say what I think.

As long as labor can be found at a lower price than what is in the US, firms will outsource jobs (and resources) to countries with hands willing to make the products demanded. I really don't blame ANY firm, big or small, that does this in order to cut costs and increase profits. Besides, every consumer is addicted to the good that best fit their needs at the lowest cost to them.

I think you articulated yourself very well. :)

[royalfan5]

You may call it sociaism, I call it economic populism. And when has this country just opened it's boders to foreign goods regardless of the effects on businesses located in the US?

Can the country actually survive and prosper on a service sector dominated economy? I have my doubts.
could the economy survive as a protectionist economy? I have my doubts.

[tommieharris91]

You may call it sociaism, I call it economic populism. And when has this country just opened it's boders to foreign goods regardless of the effects on businesses located in the US?

It already has. For example, 48% of fruits and vegetables are imported. As you have already pointed out, many other goods are made outside this country. And as long as sweat shops will be in operation in Asia, and as long as people in central America are willing to make car parts for 1/10 of the wages of an American factory worker (and be content), and as long as central Americans are willing to illegally enter our nation to work at our minimum wage, this will keep happening.

And by the way, central Americans have already shown what they think of relative wage rates by coming to our country to get jobs. This is basically their way of protesting the wage rate gap.

[tommieharris91]

I think you articulated yourself very well. :)

Well, I made a low B on an International Trade test last Thursday. I am an economics major, but I haven't completed many classes yet.

[SoonerGirl06]

Well, I made a low B on an International Trade test last Thursday. I am an economics major, but I haven't completed many classes yet.


Well, keep up the good work... you're doing just fine.

[Scott D]

Wal-Mart is merely the boogeyman of the moment. Just like General Motors was once, as McDonald's was, as someone else will be in the future. Wal-Mart's day will pass. Their stock has been stuck in neutral for sometime now, and on CNBC they were discussing if Lee Scott needs to be canned. Wal-Mart has struggled overseas because they can't leverage logistics like they can here. They have no competencies beyond being low cost, and culture has shown that it can evolve. The United States is a mature market for them. As much as people gnash their teeth about Wal-Mart, and it's effects, we've likely seen their high tide, and soon enough there will be a new boogeyman.

The General Motors conspiracy of the late 30s into the late 40s is a whole different ballgame son.

[royalfan5]

The General Motors conspiracy of the late 30s into the late 40s is a whole different ballgame son.
The moral of the story is they ain't the 800lb gorilla anymore.

[Scott D]

The moral of the story is they ain't the 800lb gorilla anymore.

That depends on the view. The current situation can be considered reaping what they sewed back then. However, Greyhound, Phillips, Firestone, etc.. haven't taken nearly as big of a hit as GM did.

[royalfan5]

That depends on the view. The current situation can be considered reaping what they sewed back then. However, Greyhound, Phillips, Firestone, etc.. haven't taken nearly as big of a hit as GM did.
My point was everybody falls from the mountain top. Wal-Mart will too.

[Scott D]

Oh I'm sure they will. In the meantime I shall enjoy Fan's crusade against them, which I find to be akin to the crusade against Brokeback Mountain or The Last Temptation of Christ. People can choose to do something or to not do something. However the more attention you draw to it, tends to lead people to do just that exact thing you try to convince them they shouldn't do in the first place.

I still can't believe how light the penalties were for those companies back then...not to even mention the penalties for the people from them that were directly responsible.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No need at this time. Wal-Mart has earned and maintained their position through legitimate competition.

And while I dislike the fact that so many jobs are going overseas, I think that the fact that they are is just an unfortunate result of the disparity of wealth between our country and the country those jobs are being shipped to. And I know that while there will be tough times, eventually, it will even out if everyone continues to outsource; we ourselves will have our wealth lowered and theirs increased, and eventually, wages will even out. It will then become more profitable to relocate manufacturing jobs Stateside due to lowered transport costs. In short, I view the current cycle as a painful readjustment period -- one that may take a long time and hurt a lot of people -- but totally natural, given our economic system.I don't believe Milton Friedman kicked the bucket. MILTON IS ALIVE AND WELL. He has taken over the former leftist body of one Vaevictis, an active member of Soonerfans.com

[jacru]

...The real villain in all of this is the American consumer. ...
Baaack in the U-S, Baaack in the U-S, Baaack in the U.S.S.R.!!
[robotic voices] We exist to serve the state. We are not indiviuals. We are part of the collective.[/robotic voices]

FaninAma you are truly an educated idiot.:P Like most elitists are.

[Vaevictis]

I don't believe Milton Friedman kicked the bucket. MILTON IS ALIVE AND WELL. He has taken over the former leftist body of one Vaevictis, an active member of Soonerfans.com

Same Vaevictis. Different topic.

Most of my political views are derived from my family's political leanings, which are basically old school Oklahoma Democrat -- Bob Kerr, Carl Albert, etc. Which is to say, a weird combination of progressive *and* conservative.

[SicEmBaylor]

I was in jail for a night. I should not have been there.

[jacru]

I was in jail for a night. I should not have been there.
Do you mean you were wrongly incarcerated or do you mean you shouldn't have done what you did to get put there?

[SicEmBaylor]

Do you mean you were wrongly incarcerated or do you mean you shouldn't have done what you did to get put there?

I'm going to go with both.

[jacru]

Americans who actively work for the defeat of America.
Those we don't shoot, anyway.

[yermom]

Baaack in the U-S, Baaack in the U-S, Baaack in the U.S.S.R.!!
[robotic voices] We exist to serve the state. We are not indiviuals. We are part of the collective.[/robotic voices]

FaninAma you are truly an educated idiot.:P Like most elitists are.

look at pop music and reality TV and tell me he is wrong in that statement ;)

[JohnnyMack]

Wal-Mart built a better mousetrap. Period.

I don't shop there because I think the place is a dirty craphole.