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RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/5/2007, 07:32 PM
OK, he's pro abortion, and like all the politicians, doesn't seem very worried about protecting the borders, but he's the most law and order oriented guy(or chick) I see, and sorta understands fiscal stuff and capitalism. (AND, last but not least, is electable)

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 07:37 PM
Oh Christ, I throw up my hands in frustration.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/5/2007, 07:58 PM
Oh Christ, I throw up my hands in frustration.While doing so, you might also say what it is you're frustrated about.

Jerk
2/5/2007, 08:24 PM
Nah, I want to see Hillary win.. I want to see a real bonified communist in the White House.

(and no one can call me out on the commie remark after what she said a few days ago)

mikeelikee
2/5/2007, 08:41 PM
One of Hillary's campaign slogans is sure to be, "From each, according to his means, to each, according to his needs." Not exactly original, but very appropriate.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/5/2007, 08:45 PM
Maybe Hugo Chavez can get on the dim tichet by '08. He could prolly win the nomination if he had the chutzpah to try it. God knows the freakin' MSM would probably back him.

jk the sooner fan
2/5/2007, 08:50 PM
as a republican, Rudy is NOT electable

you've got your head buried in Rush's fourth point of contact if you think he's electable

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 08:51 PM
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain to me why Rudy would be any better than Hillary except maybe on foreign policy and I don't even believe that?

1)He's not conservative.
2)He doesn't support limited government and is a critic of the 2nd Amendment.
3)Yes, he's a law and order guy but tell me exactly why we need a law and order President right now? Is lawlessness in general gripping the country? Janet Reno was pretty law and order, I'd rather not have a Federal government pull out the jack boots.
4)His personal life has many many issues that is going to make him a VERY easy target for the evangelical wing of the GOP which is needed to win both the primary AND the general. When the evangelicals don't show up the GOP doesn't win.
5)The only way to possibly make up for those evangelical votes is by making up the loss among moderates and liberals meaning you're electing a Republican President not beholden to his own base and his party's principles but by middle of the road liberal voters.
6)He's not a conservative.

Electing Giuliani is the equivalent to Hillary in my estimation. At least with a Hillary win you'd whip the base into a frenzy while screaming about Hillary's "out of control" government and the need to reduce the size of government.

****...with Giuliani we still get bigger government but the damned party isn't going to do a damned thing to stop him in the same way they haven't done a damned thing to stop Bush.

I am so damned sick of the damned GOP that the urge to vomit is often difficult to control.

SoonerBorn68
2/5/2007, 08:51 PM
I think I'd rather vote for Jerk, olevet, or even bri ;) at this point.

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 08:53 PM
I think I'd rather vote for Jerk, olevet, or even bri ;) at this point.

Not in that order but I would as well.

Mongo
2/5/2007, 08:54 PM
Maybe Hugo Chavez can get on the dim tichet by '08. He could prolly win the nomination if he had the chutzpah to try it. God knows the freakin' MSM would probably back him.

Impossible, Chavez is not a natural born citizen, and can never be elected. Please stop making true conservatives look like dumbasses that rub sh!t in their hair.

jk the sooner fan
2/5/2007, 08:55 PM
I am so damned sick of the damned GOP that the urge to vomit is often difficult to control.


dude, take a friggin chill pill.....we've not yet had a primary

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 08:57 PM
dude, take a friggin chill pill.....we've not yet had a primary

Well, even that doesn't matter. Not a single one of the current crop is acceptable to me. Newt comes closest but he's less than desirable to me and hasn't even indicated that he wants to run.

The result of the primary, at this point, is entirely inconsequential. The only thing that remains to be seen is how bad it'll end up being.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/5/2007, 08:58 PM
Impossible, Chavez is not a natural born citizen, and can never be elected. Please stop making true conservatives look like dumbasses that rub sh!t in their hair.If you think that was totally serious on all counts, you might want to look in the mirror for the dumbass.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
2/5/2007, 09:00 PM
Having bri in the WH would KICK ***.

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 09:00 PM
I finally realized some time ago to care less and less what the liberals and Democrats are doing. They're liberals...they've always been liberal..they'll always be liberal...they'll always act in a liberal way. So why sit around waiting to pounce on them for doing what we all know they're going to do?

I'm far more concerned with liberalism among purported "conservatives" and the effect that has on the Republican Party.

A wolf is a wolf but a wolf in sheep's clothing is another matter entirely.

Mongo
2/5/2007, 09:01 PM
I dont need a mirror, I know I am a dumbass, so you can have mine. Your outrageous political talk adds fuel to the lib fire.

And if you choose for Rudy "GO YANKEEEEETHHS" Giuliani, Ronald Reagan should rise out of the grave and pimp slap your ***.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/5/2007, 09:03 PM
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain to me why Rudy would be any better than Hillary except maybe on foreign policy and I don't even believe that?

1)He's not conservative.
2)He doesn't support limited government and is a critic of the 2nd Amendment.
3)Yes, he's a law and order guy but tell me exactly why we need a law and order President right now? Is lawlessness in general gripping the country? Janet Reno was pretty law and order, I'd rather not have a Federal government pull out the jack boots.
4)His personal life has many many issues that is going to make him a VERY easy target for the evangelical wing of the GOP which is needed to win both the primary AND the general. When the evangelicals don't show up the GOP doesn't win.
5)The only way to possibly make up for those evangelical votes is by making up the loss among moderates and liberals meaning you're electing a Republican President not beholden to his own base and his party's principles but by middle of the road liberal voters.
6)He's not a conservative.

Electing Giuliani is the equivalent to Hillary in my estimation. At least with a Hillary win you'd whip the base into a frenzy while screaming about Hillary's "out of control" government and the need to reduce the size of government.

****...with Giuliani we still get bigger government but the damned party isn't going to do a damned thing to stop him in the same way they haven't done a damned thing to stop Bush.

I am so damned sick of the damned GOP that the urge to vomit is often difficult to control.Sicem, I understand your frustration. I said "so far", and the problem is I don't see anyone better who remotely looks able to be elected. Do you?

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 09:03 PM
I dont need a mirror, I know I am a dumbass, so you can have mine. Your outrageous political talk adds fuel to the lib fire.

And if you choose for Rudy "GO YANKEEEEETHHS" Giuliani, Ronald Reagan should rise out of the grave and pimp slap your ***.

I've speked you too much lately.

Mongo
2/5/2007, 09:04 PM
I've speked you too much lately.

And it was great;)

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 09:05 PM
Sicem, I understand your frustration. I said "so far", and the problem is I don't see anyone better who remotely looks able to be elected. Do you?

No, but my primary concern isn't getting a Republican elected over a Democrat no matter what. You have to understand that to me it doesn't matter if Giuliani or Hillary are elected because it makes no difference in the struggle for limited government

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/5/2007, 09:07 PM
I dont need a mirror, I know I am a dumbass, so you can have mine. Your outrageous political talk adds fuel to the lib fire.

And if you choose for Rudy "GO YANKEEEEETHHS" Giuliani, Ronald Reagan should rise out of the grave and pimp slap your ***.Somebody tell us who the next GOOD, electable person will be.

C&CDean
2/5/2007, 09:09 PM
Sic,

With all due respect, you do not have one ounce of credibility. Your personal life is a complete and total shambles. Get your personal **** together and then maybe, MAYBE somebody will give a **** about your political opinion/s.

YWIA.

What's the difference between Hillary and Rudy? One has a bigger dick?

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 09:10 PM
Sic,

With all due respect, you do not have one ounce of credibility. Your personal life is a complete and total shambles. Get your personal **** together and then maybe, MAYBE somebody will give a **** about your political opinion/s.

YWIA.

What's the difference between Hillary and Rudy? One has a bigger dick?

So, should I ditch that damned PoliSci degree now until I get a girlfriend?
Please advise!

Mongo
2/5/2007, 09:11 PM
Somebody tell us who the next GOOD, electable person will be.

That is a great question. Maybe political assassinations should come back into fashion. You know, scare the mortal **** out of elected officials. Let them know that they are at risk.

Ike
2/5/2007, 09:12 PM
while y'all are bitching and moaning about who to elect and blahbitty blah, why don't you have a go at voting for me. I'm forming my own 'exploratory' committee.

Here's my platform:
1)taxes = bad
2)freedom = good
3)since I'll be doing away with all federal taxes, the national treasury will be funded by flexing our superpower muscles and shaking down other countries for protection money.




sadly, I think someone could win on a platform like this, and without giving any more details than that.

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 09:13 PM
That is a great question. Maybe political assassinations should come back into fashion. You know, scare the mortal **** out of elected officials. Let them know that they are at risk.

It isn't their fault. It's our fault for electing them and settling for the "lesser of two evils."

Not that politics ever attracted the greatest characters anyway....

SoonerBorn68
2/5/2007, 09:13 PM
Ya know, if it weren't a pay cut I'd consider running for prez. ;)

Mongo
2/5/2007, 09:13 PM
while y'all are bitching and moaning about who to elect and blahbitty blah, why don't you have a go at voting for me. I'm forming my own 'exploratory' committee.

Here's my platform:
1)taxes = bad
2)freedom = good
3)since I'll be doing away with all federal taxes, the national treasury will be funded by flexing our superpower muscles and shaking down other countries for protection money.




sadly, I think someone could win on a platform like this, and without giving any more details than that.

But, would you use nukes?

Widescreen
2/5/2007, 09:16 PM
Here's my platform:
1)taxes = bad
2)freedom = good
3)since I'll be doing away with all federal taxes, the national treasury will be funded by flexing our superpower muscles and shaking down other countries for protection money.

Will you make them start making new episodes of Arrested Development?

Ike
2/5/2007, 09:16 PM
But, would you use nukes?
If thats what it took. But I don't think thats what it will take.

C&CDean
2/5/2007, 09:17 PM
So, should I ditch that damned PoliSci degree now until I get a girlfriend?
Please advise!

Yes. You should ditch everything until you dip your wick into a female of some species - or change your major to poli-pantywaist.

You see, you can't be all wishy-washy, mealy-mouthed, and I was gonna say *****-whipped (but you gotta get ***** to be *****-whipped). When you're a walking mega-zero on the personal front your poli-sci degree ain't worth wiping your narrow *** on.

To have a glimpse of a clue you need to be at least semi-well rounded. You're sucking up the leftover turds of some female who is jerking you along like one of those foam lizards on a wire you get at the fair. Get past that whole dealio and you might have some cred when it comes to much more important **** like who we should vote for. I'm just sayin'....

Ike
2/5/2007, 09:17 PM
Will you make them start making new episodes of Arrested Development?
Have you contributed to my campaign?

I make no bones about the fact that I can be bought.

Jerk
2/5/2007, 09:19 PM
I am a conservative before I am a Republican.

I would rather vote for a conservative who loses, rather than a RINO who wins.

Mongo
2/5/2007, 09:21 PM
Ike, will you choose Jack Bauer as your Secretary of Kickass?

Actually, you could get rid of the military budget. Sell off all our weapons, and use Jack as our military.

Widescreen
2/5/2007, 09:22 PM
Have you contributed to my campaign?

I make no bones about the fact that I can be bought.
In!

Wait, you're talking about cash, right? I'm straight.

Ike
2/5/2007, 09:24 PM
Ike, will you choose Jack Bauer as your Secretary of Kickass?

Actually, you could get rid of the military budget. Sell off all our weapons, and use Jack as our military.
Thats a good idea...we need a secretary of Kickass.

But as Jack is a fictional character, I don't think he'd do. But if he would accept the proper training, I think AD would make a good secretary of Kickass....Then again, I wouldn't want to cut his NFL career short. Maybe Dean would do then.

C&CDean
2/5/2007, 09:28 PM
Thats a good idea...we need a secretary of Kickass.

But as Jack is a fictional character, I don't think he'd do. But if he would accept the proper training, I think AD would make a good secretary of Kickass....Then again, I wouldn't want to cut his NFL career short. Maybe Dean would do then.

In.

Mongo
2/5/2007, 09:29 PM
Thats a good idea...we need a secretary of Kickass.

But as Jack is a fictional character, I don't think he'd do. But if he would accept the proper training, I think AD would make a good secretary of Kickass....Then again, I wouldn't want to cut his NFL career short. Maybe Dean would do then.


Dude, you have the US military budget to spend on a Jack Bauer-trained AD. Pro Bowl versus saving the World? I think he is the best candidate for SoKA.

Ike
2/5/2007, 09:40 PM
Dude, you have the US military budget to spend on a Jack Bauer-trained AD. Pro Bowl versus saving the World? I think he is the best candidate for SoKA.
Yeah, but lets face it...he'd be taking a pay cut.

Gandalf_The_Grey
2/5/2007, 09:47 PM
Yeah, but lets face it...he'd be taking a pay cut.

Not if you invade Monaco and give it to him as a gift!!!

royalfan5
2/5/2007, 10:13 PM
This country needs Mitt Romney. That's all there is to it. Really we should just give the LDS'ers the keys to the country. I think they would do a great job.

SicEmBaylor
2/5/2007, 10:14 PM
This country needs Mitt Romney. That's all there is to it. Really we should just give the LDS'ers the keys to the country. I think they would do a great job.

From a purely non-ideological standpoint, Romney would definitely be my favorite.

Ike
2/5/2007, 10:15 PM
Not if you invade Monaco and give it to him as a gift!!!

good point. I'll make sure and include that in the offer.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 12:21 AM
From a purely non-ideological standpoint, Romney would definitely be my favorite.What is Romney's non-ideological appeal to you?

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2007, 12:24 AM
What is Romney's non-ideological appeal to you?

He has a strong command of public policy and is, by all accounts, a good manager. He's intelligent, articulate, and he is a smart campaigner.

I think that if he could increase his name recognition he'd be the strongest candidate to take on a Democrat. He doesn't have star power but he has a lot of untapped potential.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 12:51 AM
I remember back in the '90's when he ran against Teddy Kennedy for Senate, and he wimped out, offered up some socialist crap to try to gain favor in Mass. I don't remember the particulars, but he caved on conservatism, and he lost, of course. I don't think he has the chutzpah to withstand the onslaught by the MSM.(few people have that kind of stomach) It's up to him to gain support, but it will be very hard to do, especiallly being Mormon.

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 12:58 AM
This country needs Mitt Romney. That's all there is to it. Really we should just give the LDS'ers the keys to the country. I think they would do a great job.



If the Internet was around in 1959, you could have read online the same thing being said about Catholics.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 01:05 AM
If the Internet was around in 1959, you could have read online the same thing being said about Catholics.Difference then was the "controversial" religion was espoused by the dim. It becomes a juicy issue for the media when it's the republican with the controversy.

jdsooner
2/6/2007, 01:46 AM
I think that the Republicans should run Ann Coulter for president against Hillary. Now those debates would be great entertainment. Ann and Hillary could bitch slap each other.

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2007, 01:48 AM
I think that the Republicans should run Ann Coulter for president against Hillary. Now those debates would be great entertainment. Ann and Hillary could bitch slap each other.

Well, that would truly the undignified death of the Republic.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2007, 02:07 AM
Mitt Romney will be beaten up so badly in the primaries there's no possible way he could win the presidency.

You guys called Kerry a flip-flopper? Check out Romney's views sometime.

KaiserSooner
2/6/2007, 02:38 AM
I tend to think Romney is the best GOP candidate who could win the primaries, at this point.

Guiliani, simply put, has less of a chance of winning the GOP primaries than Nelson Rockefeller. It ain't gonna happen, if history is any sort of guide.

On domestic issues, I like Guiliani....a LOT. He's a an outspoken leftist. On all the domestic issues, he is to the left...God, guns, gays, you name it. When it comes to foreign policy, I trust him less than Bush, if that's even possible.

Personally, I'd love to see a fiasco in the GOP primaries...Giuliani rejected because he's a card-carrying commie, Romney rejected because he's a Mormon, Sam Brownback narrowly edging out Newt Gingrich for the nomination. That'd be beautiful...and a guaranteed loss for the GOP.

As far as the Democrats, I have my doubts if Hillary can win the nomination. I don't know who will, but even among Democrats in the middle part of the country, she isn't all that popular.

def_lazer_fc
2/6/2007, 03:53 AM
i agree with kaiser. i dont think hillary can win. woman. clinton. sadly, that wont fly in america. on the rep. side, i'd love to see brownback from kansas. let the far right get what they want. and let them crash and burn.

Jerk
2/6/2007, 07:29 AM
i agree with kaiser. i dont think hillary can win. woman. clinton. sadly, that wont fly in america. on the rep. side, i'd love to see brownback from kansas. let the far right get what they want. and let them crash and burn.

After she loses, that will be the cry from the left: "America is just too backwards to support a woman"

The truth will be that a Bolshevik wench is still unelectable.

royalfan5
2/6/2007, 08:44 AM
If the Internet was around in 1959, you could have read online the same thing being said about Catholics.
There were people wanting to turn the whole country over to the Catholics in 1959?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 09:53 AM
I tend to think Romney is the best GOP candidate who could win the primaries, at this point.

Guiliani, simply put, has less of a chance of winning the GOP primaries than Nelson Rockefeller. It ain't gonna happen, if history is any sort of guide.

On domestic issues, I like Guiliani....a LOT. He's a an outspoken leftist. On all the domestic issues, he is to the left...God, guns, gays, you name it. When it comes to foreign policy, I trust him less than Bush, if that's even possible.

Personally, I'd love to see a fiasco in the GOP primaries...Giuliani rejected because he's a card-carrying commie, Romney rejected because he's a Mormon, Sam Brownback narrowly edging out Newt Gingrich for the nomination. That'd be beautiful...and a guaranteed loss for the GOP.

As far as the Democrats, I have my doubts if Hillary can win the nomination. I don't know who will, but even among Democrats in the middle part of the country, she isn't all that popular.My, what a positive, uplifting outlook!

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 10:22 AM
McCain will be the GOP nominee

no clue as to who gets the Dem nod, but I really dont think Hillary has the mass appeal to pull it off....the only thing in her favor is the MSM, and they are quickly latching on to the Obama craze.....but Hillary has one trump card in her favor....Bill

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 10:57 AM
McCain will be the GOP nominee

no clue as to who gets the Dem nod, but I really dont think Hillary has the mass appeal to pull it off....the only thing in her favor is the MSM, and they are quickly latching on to the Obama craze.....but Hillary has one trump card in her favor....BillI'm afraid you may be right about McCain, I don't want to have to vote for him.
He has some skeletons the media will jerk out of the closet, should he get the nomination. Ugh, The Clintons vs. McCain. Ugly stuff!

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 11:04 AM
while y'all are bitching and moaning about who to elect and blahbitty blah, why don't you have a go at voting for me. I'm forming my own 'exploratory' committee.

Here's my platform:
1)taxes = bad
2)freedom = good
3)since I'll be doing away with all federal taxes, the national treasury will be funded by flexing our superpower muscles and shaking down other countries for protection money.




sadly, I think someone could win on a platform like this, and without giving any more details than that.

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/img/cast/character/tony_soprano.jpg

Game. Over.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 11:07 AM
Hillary is unelectable.

Guiliani will fizzle quickly.

Obama is good VP material.

I'm gonna say that this election will be:

(P) John Edwards and (VP) Barack Obama

vs.

(P) John McCain and (VP) Mitt Romney

mdklatt
2/6/2007, 11:27 AM
Hillary is unelectable.


Which is why she's a lock for the dimz nomination. Despite their showing in the last election, they haven't shown any evidence that they can get their **** together on a national level.

KaiserSooner
2/6/2007, 11:38 AM
McCain will be the GOP nominee

08 seems to be his best shot thus far, but I still have my doubts...too many conservatives don't trust him. Maybe he pulls it out, though.


no clue as to who gets the Dem nod, but I really dont think Hillary has the mass appeal to pull it off....

Yep. In both the primaries and the general.

Bourbon St Sooner
2/6/2007, 12:22 PM
No, but my primary concern isn't getting a Republican elected over a Democrat no matter what. You have to understand that to me it doesn't matter if Giuliani or Hillary are elected because it makes no difference in the struggle for limited government


Uh, dude, the struggle for limited government was lost about 100 years ago. We just had the 'party of limited government' controlling the gov't for 6 years and we got the biggest new entitlement since the Johnson administration. And when the Dems gave them the slightest pupulist bull**** about privatizing social security, the Republicans shrunk up like your balls.

SoonerStormchaser
2/6/2007, 12:27 PM
Hillary is unelectable.

Guiliani will fizzle quickly.

Obama is good VP material.

I'm gonna say that this election will be:

(P) John Edwards and (VP) Barack Obama

vs.

(P) John McCain and (VP) Mitt Romney


Agree about Hillary, however, I think she still gets the nomination.

Dems: Bitch/Obama
vs.
Reps: Rudy/Romney


Rudy wins in a landslide!

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 12:39 PM
There were people wanting to turn the whole country over to the Catholics in 1959?


That was the fear that some people had at the time.

royalfan5
2/6/2007, 12:42 PM
That was the fear that some people had at the time.
Just be clear, I'm pro-mormon. I am aware of the fear in 1960. I am advocating the opposite of fear, instead embracing them and letting them run the show.

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 12:42 PM
When will these congressmen and women realize that sitting members of congress don't win elections?

It

Just

Doesn't

Happen

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 12:43 PM
Just be clear, I'm pro-mormon. I am aware of the fear in 1960. I am advocating the opposite of fear, instead embracing them and letting them run the show.


I understand your stance, I am just saying that Merica was "progressive" once and they just might be ready to do it again.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 12:44 PM
That was the fear that some people had at the time.But, the media didn't go after Kennedy. Makes all the diff in the world. Yes, I was around, back then. As expected, the MSM gave support to him, due to his party affiliation.

OklahomaTuba
2/6/2007, 12:50 PM
Giuliani isn't a conservative huh?

Thats news to those who follow him rather closely.

He cut A LOT of social services in New York and beefed up the NYPD to combat crime, destroying the crime rate and making people call NYC a police state.

Giuliani is the only REAL leader being offered up right now, and I think he would win in a landslide over mr pretty hair socialist, billary, and the 20 year old muslim dood.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 01:05 PM
Giuliani isn't a conservative huh?

Thats news to those who follow him rather closely.

He cut A LOT of social services in New York and beefed up the NYPD to combat crime, destroying the crime rate and making people call NYC a police state.

Giuliani is the only REAL leader being offered up right now, and I think he would win in a landslide over mr pretty hair socialist, billary, and the 20 year old muslim dood.With all due respect for Sicem's analysis and opinion, I think yours is more accurate, and I would feel better about having Rudy in the WH than either McCain or the Clintons.(I don't think Romney has a chance of winning)

Widescreen
2/6/2007, 01:15 PM
Giuliani isn't a conservative huh?


No, he's actually not. At least not on the major issues.

SoonerProphet
2/6/2007, 01:17 PM
The Weekly Standard must be editorializing the benefits of a Rudy presidency.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 01:54 PM
The Weekly Standard must be editorializing the benefits of a Rudy presidency.as compared with DNC/PRAVDA TALKING POINTS DAILY magazine?

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 01:58 PM
The Republicans should put up someone like Romney, Huckabee or another accomplished Governor. Huckabee is like Tuba's wet dream. I fear for the kittens if Huckabee starts making a push.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:05 PM
Sic,

With all due respect, you do not have one ounce of credibility. Your personal life is a complete and total shambles. Get your personal **** together and then maybe, MAYBE somebody will give a **** about your political opinion/s.

YWIA.

What's the difference between Hillary and Rudy? One has a bigger dick?
Awww...that's not cool to call Rudy out for having a little dick...

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2007, 02:07 PM
Uh, dude, the struggle for limited government was lost about 100 years ago. We just had the 'party of limited government' controlling the gov't for 6 years and we got the biggest new entitlement since the Johnson administration. And when the Dems gave them the slightest pupulist bull**** about privatizing social security, the Republicans shrunk up like your balls.

You're right except we didn't lose the fight for limited government 100 years ago, we lost it 142 years ago.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 02:09 PM
You're right except we didn't lose the fight for limited government 100 years ago, we lost it 142 years ago.

Fan-nip.

Ike
2/6/2007, 02:11 PM
You're right except we didn't lose the fight for limited government 100 years ago, we lost it 142 years ago.

thats quite a long time you've been hanging onto your bitterness, doncha think?


I don't think I would be the first, nor the last, to posit that it is not coincidental then that you have trouble with the wimmins.


You have a hard time letting go dont you?

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:11 PM
My, what a positive, uplifting outlook!
I trust you as my mentor on how to be positive and uplifting.

OklahomaTuba
2/6/2007, 02:12 PM
No, he's actually not. At least not on the major issues.
Besides the gay marriage and abortion thing, what other issues is he not a conservative on? He is for low taxes, STRONG national security, cutting entitlements and welfare, etc

And on those two topics of abortion and marriage, his opinion on them is his own, and that the Government should let the people decide and not the courts over-ruling the will of the people. A very practical view point in my opinion.

That's a HUGE difference than the "let anyone get away with anything no matter what" mentality of today's leftist "progressives".

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:18 PM
Besides the gay marriage and abortion thing, what other issues is he not a conservative on? He is for low taxes, STRONG national security, cutting entitlements and welfare, etc

And on those two topics of abortion and marriage, his opinion on them is his own, and that the Government should let the people decide and not the courts over-ruling the will of the people. A very practical view point in my opinion.

That's a HUGE difference than the "let anyone get away with anything no matter what" mentality of today's leftist "progressives".
You realize that "Pro-Choice" actually DOES "let the people decide" and doesn't let the courts overrule the will of the people?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 02:21 PM
I trust you as my mentor on how to be positive and uplifting.Then shape up, fella!

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 02:22 PM
You realize that "Pro-Choice" actually DOES "let the people decide" and doesn't let the courts overrule the will of the people?just how did that vote of thepeople vote go down in Roe v. Wade?

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:25 PM
"Pro-choice" BY DEFINITION allows the people to decide for themselves and removes the courts, the gubmint and the lobbyists from the equation.

It's true democracy.

Not to mention that a difinitive majority of Americans are Pro-Choice instead of letting the government enforce an anti-abortion stance on all of its people, regardless of their religion or beliefs...

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2007, 02:28 PM
The "will of the people" regarding abortion should be expressed by their elected STATE representatives.

OklahomaTuba
2/6/2007, 02:40 PM
You realize that "Pro-Choice" actually DOES "let the people decide" and doesn't let the courts overrule the will of the people?

Hmm, I don't recall the people being allowed to vote on the issue of killing unborn babies, but maybe thats just me.

OklahomaTuba
2/6/2007, 02:42 PM
"Pro-choice" BY DEFINITION allows the people to decide for themselves and removes the courts, the gubmint and the lobbyists from the equation.

It's true democracy.

So I guess all law should have the gubmint removed then??

I think some people refer to that as anarchy.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:49 PM
Laws regarding your personal body SHOULD have the government removed.

Religion states that piercings are immoral. Tattoos are immoral. Should they be made illegal?

Same with the Pentacostal's view regarding a woman cutting her hair and wearing makeup. Should it be illegal? It's immoral, after all.

How about oral sex or sodomy? It's illegal in Oklahoma and several other states. Should that be enforced?

Or should all of these issues, which concern a person's own body, including abortion, be left in the person's own hands and keep government out of their homes, bodies and bedrooms?

Maybe it's just me, but I'm for less government and less intrusive government.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 02:53 PM
Laws regarding your personal body SHOULD have the government removed.

Religion states that piercings are immoral. Tattoos are immoral. Should they be made illegal?

Same with the Pentacostal's view regarding a woman cutting her hair and wearing makeup. Should it be illegal? It's immoral, after all.

How about oral sex or sodomy? It's illegal in Oklahoma and several other states. Should that be enforced?

Or should all of these issues, which concern a person's own body, including abortion, be left in the person's own hands and keep government out of their homes, bodies and bedrooms?

Maybe it's just me, but I'm for less government and less intrusive government.

What a dumb**** argument.

Abortion isn't about your body, it's about the baby's body. No one ever asks the baby, they just act irresponsibly and then want a quick fix.

Now in certain circumstances I can see that an abortion is unfortunately necessary. But for people to treat abortion like birth control is absolutely one of the most disgusting things on the planet.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:54 PM
So I guess all law should have the gubmint removed then??

I think some people refer to that as anarchy.
That's a bit more than "jumping to a conclusion."

More like teleportation. Good jorb, Kurt Wagner.

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 02:54 PM
How about oral sex or sodomy? It's illegal in Oklahoma and several other states. Should that be enforced?





Yes, everyone should be required to do it in states where its legal. :texan:

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:55 PM
What a dumb**** argument.

Abortion isn't about your body, it's about the baby's body. No one ever asks the baby, they just act irresponsibly and then want a quick fix.

Now in certain circumstances I can see that an abortion is unfortunately necessary. But for people to treat abortion like birth control is absolutely one of the most disgusting things on the planet.
In the first trimester it's not a baby. It's a collection of cells with no consciousness.

Might as well give "live status" to a vaginal wart.

Oh, and treating it as "birth control" IS disgusting and irresponsible. But that's not what I was saying, was it?

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 02:56 PM
Hmm, I don't recall the people being allowed to vote on the issue of killing unborn babies, but maybe thats just me.
Hate to break it to ya, but if they DID vote, they'd vote 65-70% in favor of leaving the choice to the mother.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 02:59 PM
In the first trimester it's not a baby. It's a collection of cells with no consciousness.

Might as well give "live status" to a vaginal wart.

Oh, and treating it as "birth control" IS disgusting and irresponsible. But that's not what I was saying, was it?

I disagree.

Quite vehemently.

I could show you the ultrasound from my son at 10 weeks and you might disagree.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 03:05 PM
Okay...ten weeks. Almost the end of the first trimester. Now look at the pics of a zygote or a "baby" at 6, 7, 8 weeks.

Cells.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 03:07 PM
are they living cells or dead cells?

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 03:09 PM
We go from oral sex and sodomy to vaginal warts in a matter of two posts. How depressing.

Bourbon St Sooner
2/6/2007, 03:09 PM
You're right except we didn't lose the fight for limited government 100 years ago, we lost it 142 years ago.

100 - 142, What's a Reconstruction period between friends?

Oh, this is an abortion thread. Carry on.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 03:10 PM
are they living cells or dead cells?
Trees are living cells.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 03:11 PM
We go from oral sex and sodomy to vaginal warts in a matter of two posts. How depressing.
Sodomy to warts only TAKES two posts. ;)

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 03:13 PM
YIKES! I just realized that I wasted my 100th post on an abortion post.

Me walkey away now and find something funny to post about.



P.S. - I like Rudy G.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 03:16 PM
Trees are living cells.

you're comparing trees to fetuses?

SoonerStormchaser
2/6/2007, 03:17 PM
What a dumb**** argument.

Abortion isn't about your body, it's about the baby's body. No one ever asks the baby, they just act irresponsibly and then want a quick fix.

Now in certain circumstances I can see that an abortion is unfortunately necessary. But for people to treat abortion like birth control is absolutely one of the most disgusting things on the planet.


BINGO!!

Rape, incest, life of the mother, or if the child is royally screwed up and won't have a fair shot at life...only then am I in favor of an abortion.

KaiserSooner
2/6/2007, 03:25 PM
You're right except we didn't lose the fight for limited government 100 years ago, we lost it 142 years ago.

Thank God

FaninAma
2/6/2007, 03:55 PM
You realize that "Pro-Choice" actually DOES "let the people decide" and doesn't let the courts overrule the will of the people?

Did you really type that with a straight face? Surely you're being sarcastic.

If Hilliary somehow wins the Presidency it will make the turmoil and partisanship displayed during Billy Boy's 2 terms look like a session of everyone holding hands and singing "Kumbiyah".

Talk about a lightning rod. She is absolutely detested by at least 40% of the country. I would think she starts the campaign with higher negative numbers than any candidate for President since Abraham Lincoln.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:00 PM
you're comparing trees to fetuses?
No, you were.

You were making the point that since a cell had life, it was life. I was only giving you a second example of cells with life. Just because that example revealed the flaw in your logic, don't get mad at me.

Mongo
2/6/2007, 04:03 PM
No, you were.

You were making the point that since a cell had life, it was life. I was only giving you a second example of cells with life. Just because that example revealed the flaw in your logic, don't get mad at me.

So trees with living cells are not alive?:confused:

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:07 PM
Did you really type that with a straight face? Surely you're being sarcastic.

If Hilliary somehow wins the Presidency it will make the turmoil and partisanship displayed during Billy Boy's 2 terms look like a session of everyone holding hands and singing "Kumbiyah".

Talk about a lightning rod. She is absolutely detested by at least 40% of the country. I would think she starts the campaign with higher negative numbers than any candidate for President since Abraham Lincoln.
Where did I EVER mention Her Majesty, Queen Un-Electable?

Never did. Another teleportation of logic...no connection whatsoever.

Oh...and on an unrelated topic, I DID type that with a straight face. A straight, logical, Vulcan face.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:09 PM
So trees with living cells are not alive?:confused:

No, it's alive...it just isn't "life."

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 04:10 PM
Oh...and on an unrelated topic, I DID type that with a straight face. A straight, logical, Vulcan face.

The face of someone who doesn't have kids. Obviously. Just no way.

Look I ain't no parentin' expert, I've only been at it for 7 months now, but I can assure you, it changes you. Changes your perceptions. This is coming from me, Mr. Left Wing.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 04:10 PM
women dont carry tree's in their uterus

i'm curious, if you were married, and you found out she was pregnant (say 4 weeks).....would you encourage her to stop drinking alcohol or engage in any other activity that would otherwise be harmful to those "tree cells"

the difference between you and I is that I believe life begins at conception....regardless how many cells are there.....those cells turn in to living breathing humans

you, on the other hand, for sake of convenience, pick a certain day or time when you declare the fetus a "being"

by the way, when exactly is that? what day?......what week? because you know, even after you acknowledged that the cells were more than just a zygote.....the fetus still can not live outside the womb

i just dont get how you pro choice folks split hairs like that

Mongo
2/6/2007, 04:15 PM
i just dont get how you pro choice folks split hairs like that


In this case, he has it all figured out.

Mongo
2/6/2007, 04:19 PM
The face of someone who doesn't have kids. Obviously. Just no way.

Look I ain't no parentin' expert, I've only been at it for 7 months now, but I can assure you, it changes you. Changes your perceptions. This is coming from me, Mr. Left Wing.

I give you another 7-9 years before you turn into :dean:

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 04:24 PM
I give you another 7-9 years before you turn into :dean:

My hand is NEVER going up a cows ***. Evar.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:26 PM
women dont carry tree's in their uterus
Women can also carry warts, VD, tampons, even the occasional baggie of heroin in their uteruses, doesn't make them life.


i'm curious, if you were married, and you found out she was pregnant (say 4 weeks).....would you encourage her to stop drinking alcohol or engage in any other activity that would otherwise be harmful to those "tree cells"
I am married. As a good husband I encourage my wife to life a good, healthy life regardless of whether she's pregnant or not, and she does the same for me.


the difference between you and I is that I believe life begins at conception....regardless how many cells are there.....those cells turn in to living breathing humans
Not always. Often it's aborted naturally, born brain dead, born deformed beyond the ability to live, born gay, born transgendered...not always does that collection of cells come out a nice, neat, living, breathing heterosexual normal future republican human.


you, on the other hand, for sake of convenience, pick a certain day or time when you declare the fetus a "being" Yep. The moment it's a viable life on its own or via the use of technology. Maybe even the moment there is a heartbeat. Not before.


by the way, when exactly is that? what day?......what week? because you know, even after you acknowledged that the cells were more than just a zygote.....the fetus still can not live outside the womb
True. Hence the "heartbeat" deadline.


i just dont get how you pro choice folks split hairs like that
I don't split hairs. I'll never be pregnant, so it'll never be my choice. Neither will you, which is why it should never be YOUR choice. That's why it's best to leave it up to the mother since, after all, it IS her body we're talking about. Not ours.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:27 PM
My hand is NEVER going up a cows ***. Evar.
YMSSR

FaninAma
2/6/2007, 04:28 PM
Where did I EVER mention Her Majesty, Queen Un-Electable?

Never did. Another teleportation of logic...no connection whatsoever.

Oh...and on an unrelated topic, I DID type that with a straight face. A straight, logical, Vulcan face.

My first comment was in reference to your abortion comments.

The Hilliary observation had nothing to do with anything you posted so unwind yourself.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 04:31 PM
LAS is married

who knew......congrats!

SoonerStormchaser
2/6/2007, 04:34 PM
My wife sure as hell wasn't gonna abort our little bean...and she's 44!

Ike
2/6/2007, 04:36 PM
Yep. The moment it's a viable life on its own or via the use of technology. Maybe even the moment there is a heartbeat. Not before.


True. Hence the "heartbeat" deadline.


I don't split hairs. I'll never be pregnant, so it'll never be my choice. Neither will you, which is why it should never be YOUR choice. That's why it's best to leave it up to the mother since, after all, it IS her body we're talking about. Not ours.


Just so you know,
Mrs. Ike and I saw a heartbeat at six weeks. It doesn't take long.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 04:37 PM
i just dont get how you pro choice folks split heirs like that

Why do you hate King Solomon?

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:38 PM
LAS is married

who knew......congrats!
Man, you OBSESS.

I'm not LAS.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:39 PM
Just so you know,
Mrs. Ike and I saw a heartbeat at six weeks. It doesn't take long.

Fine.

Six weeks, then, if that's when the heartbeat starts.

I think the morning after pill is a GREAT option.

SoonerStormchaser
2/6/2007, 04:41 PM
Mrs. SoonerStormchaser is now in her 8th week...we went into the ultrasound last Friday...no heartbeat.

I'm worried.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 04:41 PM
My first comment was in reference to your abortion comments.

The Hilliary observation had nothing to do with anything you posted so unwind yourself.
I'm not wound up.

And I agree, Hillary would galvanize the Repub base and never get elected. She would also be yet another let down from the Demos. Another weak candidate. Another disservice to America.

Now...Obama is a different story. I would say "horse of a different color" but there's just too much comedy material there...

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 04:48 PM
Man, you OBSESS.

I'm not LAS.

you're a damn liar

mods can we get a confirmation?

Widescreen
2/6/2007, 04:57 PM
Besides the gay marriage and abortion thing, what other issues is he not a conservative on?

Gun rights. There are already enough liberals running in '08, thanks.

Stoop Dawg
2/6/2007, 05:16 PM
i'm curious, if you were married, and you found out she was pregnant (say 4 weeks).....would you encourage her to stop drinking alcohol or engage in any other activity that would otherwise be harmful to those "tree cells"

the difference between you and I is that I believe life begins at conception....regardless how many cells are there.....those cells turn in to living breathing humans

So, IYO, is there any time when abortion is allowable? Rape? Incest? I'm just curious.

Also, what do you think about the Catholic's view on contraception? Too much?

One more question. Should women who drink/smoke during pregnancy then miscarry be charged with murder/manslaughter/child abuse?

IMO, there are a couple of weeks after conception before there is "life". I'm okay with the "morning after" pill and other similar drugs taken within a week or two. I'm also okay with more drastic measures being taken in certain circumstances (rape, etc.) but not past about 2 months. I think 2 months is plenty of time to figure out whether you "qualify" under these special circumstances. After two weeks and with no mitigating circumstances (being an ignornant teen doesn't count) I'm all against it.

Oh, and I definitely think that women giving birth to crack-babies should be prosecuted.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 05:21 PM
So, IYO, is there any time when abortion is allowable? Rape? Incest? I'm just curious.

Also, what do you think about the Catholic's view on contraception? Too much?

One more question. Should women who drink/smoke during pregnancy then miscarry be charged with murder/manslaughter/child abuse?

IMO, there are a couple of weeks after conception before there is "life". I'm okay with the "morning after" pill and other similar drugs taken within a week or two. I'm also okay with more drastic measures being taken in certain circumstances (rape, etc.) but not past about 2 months. I think 2 months is plenty of time to figure out whether you "qualify" under these special circumstances. After two weeks and with no mitigating circumstances (being an ignornant teen doesn't count) I'm all against it.

Oh, and I definitely think that women giving birth to crack-babies should be prosecuted.


I'm not catholic so I really cant comment on what their position is on birth control

The number of abortions conducted due to rape and incest is such a small number......and to be honest it causes me alot of consternation because I am pro-life.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 05:42 PM
you're a damn liar

mods can we get a confirmation?
I believe this constitutes a violation of board rules.

Enjoy your brief timeout.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 05:43 PM
Meh.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 05:44 PM
Gun rights. There are already enough liberals running in '08, thanks.
Yeah. That DOES bug me about him.

jeremy885
2/6/2007, 05:48 PM
I believe this constitutes a violation of board rules.

Enjoy your brief timeout.

Good luck with that LAS.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 05:53 PM
:rolleyes:
You people amaze me.

mdklatt
2/6/2007, 05:54 PM
the difference between you and I is that I believe life begins at conception....regardless how many cells are there.....those cells turn in to living breathing humans


What about IVF?

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2007, 05:55 PM
hey i know what, have one of the mods/admins confirm here publicly that you arent LAS......jeezus its not difficult to figure out

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2007, 05:57 PM
Well, I don't know how to look up his IP and I don't know what LAS's IP was to begin with, so don't look at me.

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 06:05 PM
But you DO know how to enforce board rules, don't you?

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2007, 06:10 PM
On the Football board I do.

Harry Beanbag
2/6/2007, 06:12 PM
Well, I don't know how to look up his IP and I don't know what LAS's IP was to begin with, so don't look at me.


He should probably just be aborted/permabaned anyway, just to be safe. He's only got a handful of posts so it's still early enough. He could grow to be "brain dead, deformed beyond the ability to live, gay, transgendered...not always does that collection of cells we call a Sooner Benchwarmer come out a nice, neat, living, breathing heterosexual normal future republican human."

Mongo
2/6/2007, 06:14 PM
On the Football board I do.

You're the Count of Bacon 'n Gravy, you can do anything

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 06:25 PM
He should probably just be aborted/permabaned anyway, just to be safe. He's only got a handful of posts so it's still early enough. He could grow to be "brain dead, deformed beyond the ability to live, gay, transgendered...not always does that collection of cells we call a Sooner Benchwarmer come out a nice, neat, living, breathing heterosexual normal future republican human."
Permabaned for never breaking board rules, flameing a fellow poster, flame baiting or even really being a jerk to anyone? Permananed for only being ACCUSED of being another poster and permabaned for disagreeing (politely) with a few posters here on various issues?

Interesting new philosophy.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/6/2007, 06:31 PM
He should probably just be aborted/permabaned anyway, just to be safe. He's only got a handful of posts so it's still early enough. He could grow to be "brain dead, deformed beyond the ability to live, gay, transgendered...not always does that collection of cells we call a Sooner Benchwarmer come out a nice, neat, living, breathing heterosexual normal future republican human." Don't go there... IT'S NOT FAIR(whine whine)

Sam Spade
2/6/2007, 06:37 PM
Wow. What did I do to bring this "attack en masse" on?

I didn't even tell anyone they were wrong. I merely stated my opinion on a subject that came up and tried to discuss it politely.

It's a shame you guys can't be civil to one another or allow anyone with a different opinion.

I'll go play in another thread now. This one isn't fun or interesting anymore.

Harry Beanbag
2/6/2007, 06:38 PM
Wow. What did I do to bring this "attack en masse" on?

I didn't even tell anyone they were wrong. I merely stated my opinion on a subject that came up and tried to discuss it politely.

It's a shame you guys can't be civil to one another or allow anyone with a different opinion.

I'll go play in another thread now. This one isn't fun or interesting anymore.


Bye.

Jerk
2/6/2007, 06:46 PM
Holy **** what happened to JohnnyMack?? Dude used to be a raging liberal.

C&CDean
2/6/2007, 06:58 PM
JohnnyMack,

A little tear of joy welled up in the corner of my eye when I read your last few posts in this thread. There's hope for the boy afterall.

FWIW, anyone who can be personally involved in the "formation" of a baby, watch that little sucker grow and finally pop out, and then be pro-abortion is a heartless, gutless POS who should be spayed or neutered.

Sam Spade,

Please do not attempt to tell the mods what/how to do their job. Ever. Again.

Jerk
2/6/2007, 07:02 PM
Next thing you know, JohhnyMack will go out, buy a gun, learn to shoot it, so he can protect his family.

BeetDigger
2/6/2007, 07:11 PM
My hand is NEVER going up a cows ***. Evar.


It's not their *** that he sticks his hand up. Well, not to pull a calf anyway.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2007, 09:43 PM
JohnnyMack,

A little tear of joy welled up in the corner of my eye when I read your last few posts in this thread. There's hope for the boy afterall.

FWIW, anyone who can be personally involved in the "formation" of a baby, watch that little sucker grow and finally pop out, and then be pro-abortion is a heartless, gutless POS who should be spayed or neutered.


You missed it earlier when I was trashing Hillary Clinton. You'd have thought you raised me. :D

sooneron
2/6/2007, 10:08 PM
Hillary vs. McCain?
I take McCain

I don't see Rudy getting the nomination... admitted adulterer while in Gracie Mansion. That affair was the worst kept secret in NYC for 4 years.

Stoop Dawg
2/7/2007, 09:01 AM
I'm not catholic so I really cant comment on what their position is on birth control

And since you're not agnostic you won't be commenting on any more of my opinions/positions? :rolleyes:


The number of abortions conducted due to rape and incest is such a small number......and to be honest it causes me alot of consternation because I am pro-life.

Does "causes me a lot of consternation" mean "I'm for it" or "I'm against it"? My waffle-to-English dictionary is a little out of date.

jk the sooner fan
2/7/2007, 09:04 AM
no it means that i'm not familiar with the exact catholic doctrine on birth control....feel free to share it and then maybe i can comment on it

i'm pro life, i've said that many times

i understand the rape/incest abortion argument....i just wish there was another alternative

you can take/twist my words however you like

OklahomaTuba
2/7/2007, 10:06 AM
I don't see Rudy getting the nomination... admitted adulterer while in Gracie Mansion. That affair was the worst kept secret in NYC for 4 years.

Now that whole deal may catch up with him big time. I don't know the details, but it didn't sounds pretty.

The more I have read about Rudy, the more I think he could turn the entire map red in 2008. I think his stances should please all right of center folks. Maybe he will ask John McCain to run with him. That would be a great ticket IMO.

jk the sooner fan
2/7/2007, 10:06 AM
i cant see mccain playing second fiddle to Rudy.....i think he'd turn down that offer, he's got it too good as a senator to turn it in for a VEEP role

Stoop Dawg
2/7/2007, 12:37 PM
no it means that i'm not familiar with the exact catholic doctrine on birth control....feel free to share it and then maybe i can comment on it

At one time they were opposing all forms of contraception as part of their "pro-life" stance. I believe they may have backed off of it now.


i'm pro life, i've said that many times

i understand the rape/incest abortion argument....i just wish there was another alternative

you can take/twist my words however you like

You say "I'm pro life" as if that fully explains your stance. There are many people all over the country who call themselves "pro life" and yet disagree on the finer points of what exactly that means. I was just trying to get your particular view, since it appears to be pretty hard-line (i.e. life begins at conception).

I take it you oppose abortion in all cases but understand why some people would like to consider rape/incest as special cases. How "liberal" of you! ;) Seriously though, I'm not baiting you (for once). Just curious.

jk the sooner fan
2/7/2007, 01:07 PM
i'm certainly not a "militant" pro-lifer, i do believe that life begins at conception but i'm not going to be sending anybody pictures of dead fetuses or bombing abortion clinics

i guess my answer is that i have some tolerance for those rare cases where abortion is a) medically necessary 2) rape/incest

as for the catholics and their stance on birth control.....i'm not sure how to answer that, while my wife is catholic, i have quite a few issues with some tenets of catholicism (sp?)....i'm methodist and man made forms of birth control are ok....i know that the church isnt going to step in and take care of my kids because I was too irresponsible to use birth control. my guess is that the catholics believe that using any man made contraception is a form of abortion.....and i dont adhere to that way of thinking

it may not work for you, it only has to work for me! :)

SicEmBaylor
2/7/2007, 01:22 PM
I don't want to hunt down where Tuba replied to my statement about evangelicals with, "you must hate reading the founding fathers."

First, I wouldn't describe most of the Founding Fathers as "evangelicals." They overwhelmingly believed in and subscribed to the idea of that these United States are guided by the divine providence of God, but I wouldn't say they were out there evangelizing.

Second, it's a hell of a stretch to compare the faith of our Founding Fathers with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

The reason evangelicals scare me in politics is that they want their vision of an evangelical America LEGISLATED into law which is often to the detriment of individual rights, personal liberty, and limited government. Most evangelicals don't really care a flip about the proper constitutional role of government so long as they have their ideas imposed legislatively often at the Federal level to the detriment of the rights and powers of the individual states.

Barry Goldwater held a very similar opinion and the evangelical movement wasn't nearly as big then as it is now. They sure as hell didn't have the influence within the GOP then that they enjoy today.

Stoop Dawg
2/7/2007, 02:26 PM
it may not work for you, it only has to work for me! :)

I'm not sure what that means.

Does it mean that it's okay for us to disagree ideologically? If so, I agree.

However, when it's time to turn ideology into laws that everyone must follow, such a statment seems rather brutish.

jk the sooner fan
2/7/2007, 02:38 PM
I'm not sure what that means.

Does it mean that it's okay for us to disagree ideologically? If so, I agree.

However, when it's time to turn ideology into laws that everyone must follow, such a statment seems rather brutish.

i seriously doubt my opinion is going to become a law of any kind

nor do i think roe v. wade will ever be overturned

you can relax, abortion is legal........i assume in 10 years gay marriage will be all the rage too

Sam Spade
2/7/2007, 03:21 PM
At one time they were opposing all forms of contraception as part of their "pro-life" stance. I believe they may have backed off of it now.



You say "I'm pro life" as if that fully explains your stance. There are many people all over the country who call themselves "pro life" and yet disagree on the finer points of what exactly that means. I was just trying to get your particular view, since it appears to be pretty hard-line (i.e. life begins at conception).

I take it you oppose abortion in all cases but understand why some people would like to consider rape/incest as special cases. How "liberal" of you! ;) Seriously though, I'm not baiting you (for once). Just curious.

Technically the Pro-Life stance is this:

Life begins at conception. All forms of abortion are murder.

The death penalty is murder. It is wrong and unacceptable in all cases.

Euthanasia is murder. It is wrong and unacceptable in all cases.

THIS is the actual definition of a Pro-Lifer. Anything less than this is does NOT a Pro-Lifer make.

Sam Spade
2/7/2007, 03:26 PM
I don't want to hunt down where Tuba replied to my statement about evangelicals with, "you must hate reading the founding fathers."

First, I wouldn't describe most of the Founding Fathers as "evangelicals." They overwhelmingly believed in and subscribed to the idea of that these United States are guided by the divine providence of God, but I wouldn't say they were out there evangelizing.

Second, it's a hell of a stretch to compare the faith of our Founding Fathers with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

The reason evangelicals scare me in politics is that they want their vision of an evangelical America LEGISLATED into law which is often to the detriment of individual rights, personal liberty, and limited government. Most evangelicals don't really care a flip about the proper constitutional role of government so long as they have their ideas imposed legislatively often at the Federal level to the detriment of the rights and powers of the individual states.

Barry Goldwater held a very similar opinion and the evangelical movement wasn't nearly as big then as it is now. They sure as hell didn't have the influence within the GOP then that they enjoy today.
Technically the Founding Fathers were anything BUT Evangelicals. The Evangelical revolution didn't really hit the U.S. until the late 1950's-mid 1960's.

The Founding Fathers, almost to a man with only a couple of exceptions, were Diests. That means they believed there was a higher power out there, a God or a Spirit, who created all and watched over us, but they were not Evangelicals and most wouldn't even be classified as Christians. Grab a history book. It's all there.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/7/2007, 04:40 PM
First, I wouldn't describe most of the Founding Fathers as "evangelicals." They overwhelmingly believed in and subscribed to the idea of that these United States are guided by the divine providence of God, but I wouldn't say they were out there evangelizing.

Second, it's a hell of a stretch to compare the faith of our Founding Fathers with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

The reason evangelicals scare me in politics is that they want their vision of an evangelical America LEGISLATED into law which is often to the detriment of individual rights, personal liberty, and limited government. Most evangelicals don't really care a flip about the proper constitutional role of government so long as they have their ideas imposed legislatively often at the Federal level to the detriment of the rights and powers of the individual states.

Barry Goldwater held a very similar opinion and the evangelical movement wasn't nearly as big then as it is now. They sure as hell didn't have the influence within the GOP then that they enjoy today.I think it's wrong to compare Jerry Falwell with some of the over-the-top stuff that Pat Robertson has uttered.
What evidence do you have that all or most evangelicals want their ideas imposed legislatively, and should be feared, EVEN IF THEY AREN'T RUNNING FOR OFFICE?
Please explain in greater detail your thoughts on Barry Goldwater.

SicEmBaylor
2/7/2007, 04:43 PM
Technically the Founding Fathers were anything BUT Evangelicals. The Evangelical revolution didn't really hit the U.S. until the late 1950's-mid 1960's.

The Founding Fathers, almost to a man with only a couple of exceptions, were Diests. That means they believed there was a higher power out there, a God or a Spirit, who created all and watched over us, but they were not Evangelicals and most wouldn't even be classified as Christians. Grab a history book. It's all there.

Uhm, I know they were diests. How does anything you just said conflict with anything I said?

Harry Beanbag
2/7/2007, 05:21 PM
Uhm, I know they were diests. How does anything you just said conflict with anything I said?


Doesn't matter. You're wrong, he's right.

sooneron
2/7/2007, 05:34 PM
Now that whole deal may catch up with him big time. I don't know the details, but it didn't sounds pretty.

The more I have read about Rudy, the more I think he could turn the entire map red in 2008. I think his stances should please all right of center folks. Maybe he will ask John McCain to run with him. That would be a great ticket IMO.
It wasn't pretty. I don't know how true Donna was, but I worked with Rudy on the big press dinner thing where he lampoons himself (can't remember the name of the event) when he was mayor and worked on two campaign ads before he bowed out of the Sen. race. Let's just say that the new Mrs. Giuliani was quite present and that was well before the divorce filing in Fall of 00. Not to mention a NYC CVB shoot in 99. There was a lot of teenage giddiness, IYKWIM, I have the pay stubs to prove I worked on them.

To be honest, before he decided to turn himself into the party pit bull at the 04 convention, I would have voted for him.

I prefer outsiders, not tote the liners.

Sam Spade
2/7/2007, 10:56 PM
Doesn't matter. You're wrong, he's right.

Weird...I've never said that...

Where do you get this stuff?

Gandalf_The_Grey
2/8/2007, 12:08 AM
Tolerance implies no lack of commitment to one's own beliefs. Rather it condemns the oppression or persecution of others.

BeetDigger
2/8/2007, 12:56 AM
........i assume in 10 years gay marriage will be all the rage too


First it was cigars, then gotees, then tattoos, then shaved heads... I suppose you are probably right. :D

usmc-sooner
2/8/2007, 01:05 AM
I guess LAS or SS forgot how uninteresting this thread was he stayed out from 146 to 163.

I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, even apologized for accusing him of being LAS, but it's the same ole story time after time. He doesn't even change his MO. How lame is it when you get asked to leave but keep trying to come back?

Sam Spade
2/8/2007, 06:11 AM
Whatever...

jk the sooner fan
2/8/2007, 06:33 AM
dude, you're the most obvious troll ever....seriously, you're a professional writer......at least try and disguise yourself

Tear Down This Wall
2/8/2007, 11:03 AM
After the McCain/Hagel/Warner/Graham/Voinovich show of the last seven years, I'm sitting out 2008. It'll do the GOP some good to be kicked totally out of power. I'm sick of their insider guttersniping and don't intend to reward it by going to the poll and voting for them anymore.

Rock me.

sooneron
2/8/2007, 11:27 AM
After the McCain/Hagel/Warner/Graham/Voinovich show of the last seven years, I'm sitting out 2008. It'll do the GOP some good to be kicked totally out of power. I'm sick of their insider guttersniping and don't intend to reward it by going to the poll and voting for them anymore.

Rock me.
Wow.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/8/2007, 01:17 PM
After the McCain/Hagel/Warner/Graham/Voinovich show of the last seven years, I'm sitting out 2008. It'll do the GOP some good to be kicked totally out of power. I'm sick of their insider guttersniping and don't intend to reward it by going to the poll and voting for them anymore.

Rock me.Yeah, we're gonna be just fine with Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon and Jane Fonda joining forces with the mob, to run this little world power of ours.

recemp
2/8/2007, 01:36 PM
Gee, how'd this blue stater Sooner stumble across this?
It does seem that you guys are as fed up with conservatives as I am with glad handing liberals.
There used to be a middle ground that we arrived at and we all proceeded with a little common sense. When/where did we lose that?
I'll vote for the guy that puts the country first. Haven't seen that in a while.

proud gonzo
2/8/2007, 01:37 PM
i'm not going to read this thread. i'm just going to assume it's 5 pages of everybody chanting "RU-DY! RU-DY!"

Ike
2/8/2007, 02:11 PM
There used to be a middle ground that we arrived at and we all proceeded with a little common sense. When/where did we lose that?


The way I see it, we lost it when we started putting strict adherence to positions on issues ahead of anything else.

This goes equally for both sides, and in my opinion, it's spiraled out of control. Both sides are afraid of electing someone with a little bit of flexibility because the parties now see flexibility as a weakness, believing that if their side gives an inch, the other side will take a mile. And sadly, there is some truth to that too.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/8/2007, 02:45 PM
The way I see it, we lost it when we started putting strict adherence to positions on issues ahead of anything else.

This goes equally for both sides, and in my opinion, it's spiraled out of control. Both sides are afraid of electing someone with a little bit of flexibility because the parties now see flexibility as a weakness, believing that if their side gives an inch, the other side will take a mile. And sadly, there is some truth to that too.Agreed. That's why Rudy doesn't bother me very much.

Tear Down This Wall
2/8/2007, 04:39 PM
Yeah, we're gonna be just fine with Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon and Jane Fonda joining forces with the mob, to run this little world power of ours.

Yeah, well, we'll see. The only people who care are the overly political. We've had two decent presidents since WWII - Eisenhower and Reagan. The other seven of them didn't sink the Republic, so I doubt four years of a Democrat in the Oval Office would do much harm.

In fact, I know it wouldn't because I've lived though Nixon, Carter, and Bush 41, and Clinton White House eras. If those colossal f'ups couldn't bring the Republic down, no one can. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter gave a good 20 years of trying to f'up the Republic, but it only took one Reagan tax cut and a little deregulation to fix it.

Seriously, it's not rocket science. When the Democrats were totally in control, they got too big for their britches. Lately, the Republicans, mainly the Senators, have gotten to big for theirs. It's fun watching the jackhole GOPers who opposed W squirm under the leadership duo of Reid and Pelosi. Serves 'em right, too.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/8/2007, 07:44 PM
Yeah, well, we'll see. The only people who care are the overly political. We've had two decent presidents since WWII - Eisenhower and Reagan. The other seven of them didn't sink the Republic, so I doubt four years of a Democrat in the Oval Office would do much harm.

In fact, I know it wouldn't because I've lived though Nixon, Carter, and Bush 41, and Clinton White House eras. If those colossal f'ups couldn't bring the Republic down, no one can. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter gave a good 20 years of trying to f'up the Republic, but it only took one Reagan tax cut and a little deregulation to fix it.

Seriously, it's not rocket science. When the Democrats were totally in control, they got too big for their britches. Lately, the Republicans, mainly the Senators, have gotten to big for theirs. It's fun watching the jackhole GOPers who opposed W squirm under the leadership duo of Reid and Pelosi. Serves 'em right, too.I don't like the rino wimps any more than you, but they are certainly preferable to full-blown rug-chewing, and overtly anti-American crap.(such as selling missile guidance systems to the chicoms for campaign contributions)

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
2/9/2007, 11:35 AM
Isn't Guiliani the one who moved his mistress into Gracie Mansion when his wife still lived there?

SicEmBaylor
2/9/2007, 11:44 AM
I think it's wrong to compare Jerry Falwell with some of the over-the-top stuff that Pat Robertson has uttered.
What evidence do you have that all or most evangelicals want their ideas imposed legislatively, and should be feared, EVEN IF THEY AREN'T RUNNING FOR OFFICE?
Please explain in greater detail your thoughts on Barry Goldwater.

What evidence do I have?
Well...let's see....their support for the faith based initiative, prayer in school, the 10 commandments in public court houses, support for a constitutional marriage amendment, and the desire among many to not just have Roe v. Wade overturned and returned to the states but to see the Supreme Court rule abortion wholly and entirely illegal. In general, they are more concerned with legislating Christian morality than they are in the virtues of limited and constitutional government. Their demand for absolute support for Israel has boxed us in diplomatically in the middle east and made it difficult to move.

What exactly is it about Barry Goldwater that you want me to expand upon? I have a lot of thoughts concerning Goldwater, but I'm not sure what you want me to say. It's very possible, even likely, that Goldwater would be labeled a RINO by today's standards. He opposed Kennedy's across the board tax cuts (that were very similar to Bush's) because they weren't coupled with cuts in spending and raised the deficit. He opposed the Civil Rights Act on the basis of states' rights...how many Republicans would do that today?

rd280z
2/9/2007, 01:39 PM
At this point the pubs have no real viable candidates that support their true agenda. Giuliani is too liberal for my liking. I don't care about his abortion rights issues, I am for freedom to choose also, but I don't like his gun control and homosexual crap.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/9/2007, 03:07 PM
What evidence do I have?
Well...let's see....their support for the faith based initiative, prayer in school, the 10 commandments in public court houses, support for a constitutional marriage amendment, and the desire among many to not just have Roe v. Wade overturned and returned to the states but to see the Supreme Court rule abortion wholly and entirely illegal. In general, they are more concerned with legislating Christian morality than they are in the virtues of limited and constitutional government. Their demand for absolute support for Israel has boxed us in diplomatically in the middle east and made it difficult to move.

What exactly is it about Barry Goldwater that you want me to expand upon? I have a lot of thoughts concerning Goldwater, but I'm not sure what you want me to say. It's very possible, even likely, that Goldwater would be labeled a RINO by today's standards. He opposed Kennedy's across the board tax cuts (that were very similar to Bush's) because they weren't coupled with cuts in spending and raised the deficit. He opposed the Civil Rights Act on the basis of states' rights...how many Republicans would do that today?So, you think the killing of unborn children should have ever been ruled legal by the SCOTUS?(and that it is simply a Christian value) Do you think it makes any sense for us to back eradication of a nation(Israel)?
I still don't understand your fear of legislation that is morality based, if voted on by the people or the people's representatives.

SicEmBaylor
2/9/2007, 03:18 PM
So, you think the killing of unborn children should have ever been ruled legal by the SCOTUS?(and that it is simply a Christian value) Do you think it makes any sense for us to back eradication of a nation(Israel)?
I still don't understand your fear of legislation that is morality based, if voted on by the people or the people's representatives.

1)No, I don't think SCOTUS should have ruled abortion legal. I think SCOTUS should have punted it to the people's representatives in the state legislators to decide the issue. At that point, I would fully support my state legislature banning the practice of abortion.

2)No, I don't believe in making it the official policy of these United States to eradicate Israel. I am, however, in favor of recognizing that our relationship with Israel is often one sided and has caused us many many problems in dealing with the mid-east diplomatically.

3)I have a fear of the Federal government making social policy that is "one size fits all" for the entire nation regardless of the different beliefs, customs, and wishes of the people of a very diverse country among diverse states.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/9/2007, 05:12 PM
3)I have a fear of the Federal government making social policy that is "one size fits all" for the entire nation regardless of the different beliefs, customs, and wishes of the people of a very diverse country among diverse states.Hey, let's start a secession movement of some kind. Any ideas?

SicEmBaylor
2/9/2007, 05:28 PM
:sigh:

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/9/2007, 05:43 PM
:sigh:Maybe a swap-the-people-out thing for hawaii and Utah, if you want to join the Mormons, eh?

SicEmBaylor
2/9/2007, 06:09 PM
I don't even know what you're saying now.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/9/2007, 06:30 PM
I don't even know what you're saying now.And Scott D accused ME of not having a sense of humor, because I find Stephen Colbert to be a jerk of the largest magnitude(and repulsive).

sitzpinkler
2/9/2007, 06:34 PM
I find Stephen Colbert to be a jerk of the largest magnitude(and repulsive).

why, because he acts just like you?

the only difference is, Colbert isn't serious.

SicEmBaylor
2/9/2007, 06:35 PM
And Scott D accused ME of not having a sense of humor, because I find Stephen Colbert to be a jerk of the largest magnitude(and repulsive).

I have no sense humor.

SoonerGirl06
2/9/2007, 07:28 PM
In the first trimester it's not a baby. It's a collection of cells with no consciousness.


You are soooo wrong on that, it's not funny. During the first trimester (weeks 0-14) that the gender is determined, the nervous system has developed along with major organs, including the heart. The circulatory system has developed, which is the very system that will support the child throughout it's life, the brain has developed; limbs, fingers, bone and cartilage have formed, movement has taken place and begins to practice breathing movements. At nine weeks the fetus will grasp at something placed in it's palm. At the end of the first trimester the fetus has learned to suck it's thumb.

Hmmm.... all of that sounds like a lot more than a collection of cells with no consciousness. Sounds like a human life to me.

SoonerGirl06
2/9/2007, 07:34 PM
Okay...ten weeks. Almost the end of the first trimester. Now look at the pics of a zygote or a "baby" at 6, 7, 8 weeks.

Cells.



I have and it's not just a bunch of cells....


6 weeks: the arms and legs continue to develop... brain is growing... nostrils are formed... lenses of the eyes appear.. intestines grow...

7 weeks: elbows form... fingers start to develop... feet appear... eyes, ears and nose appear... teeth develop under the gums...

8 weeks: cartilage and bones begin to form... tongue develops...

SoonerGirl06
2/9/2007, 07:42 PM
Women can also carry warts, VD, tampons, even the occasional baggie of heroin in their uteruses, doesn't make them life.


For you to make that comment is absolutely appalling.

First of all, you need to know that the hell you're talking about... you can't carry warts, VD, tampons or the occasional baggie of heroin in the uterus... it's the VAGINA! The only thing a woman can carry in her UTERUS is a baby.

Go back to class and learn about the female anatomy before you go spouting off and saying things you don't know squat about.

SoonerGirl06
2/9/2007, 07:43 PM
Mrs. SoonerStormchaser is now in her 8th week...we went into the ultrasound last Friday...no heartbeat.

I'm worried.


Sometimes you don't hear it till the 10th week. Don't worry too much. :)

Ike
2/9/2007, 07:48 PM
I have and it's not just a bunch of cells....


6 weeks: the arms and legs continue to develop... brain is growing... nostrils are formed... lenses of the eyes appear.. intestines grow...

7 weeks: elbows form... fingers start to develop... feet appear... eyes, ears and nose appear... teeth develop under the gums...

8 weeks: cartilage and bones begin to form... tongue develops...


Just because I like to throw out random facts...

at up until 6 weeks or so, a human embryo is indistinguishable from an embryo of any other kind of mammal. They even have tails.

SoonerGirl06
2/9/2007, 08:00 PM
Just because I like to throw out random facts...

at up until 6 weeks or so, a human embryo is indistinguishable from an embryo of any other kind of mammal. They even have tails.


True... but I think SS' comments stated that in the first trimester that a baby was nothing more than a collection of cells, which is incorrect.

jk the sooner fan
2/9/2007, 08:04 PM
Just because I like to throw out random facts...

at up until 6 weeks or so, a human embryo is indistinguishable from an embryo of any other kind of mammal. They even have tails.

here's a fact

while indistinguishable from other embryo's........they always turn into humans

ALWAYS

Ike
2/9/2007, 08:28 PM
here's a fact

while indistinguishable from other embryo's........they always turn into humans

ALWAYS


not always. Sometimes they don't wind up turning into anything. Ours didn't anyway.

jk the sooner fan
2/9/2007, 09:19 PM
not always. Sometimes they don't wind up turning into anything. Ours didn't anyway.

thats unfortunate and i'm sorry to hear that

but i think you know what i was getting at

they dont ever turn into tree's, or puppies, or kittens, or anything else

Gandalf_The_Grey
2/9/2007, 09:48 PM
The funny thing is how everyone is making out abortions as a moral issue. Rich people can just fly to some other country and get their abortions regardless if it is legal or not here. This is purely a economic issue. Let's face it, I don't think my tax dollars should help fund other people getting abortions. I mean at the very least, after the 2nd abortion fix it where they can't have children...ever again!

jk the sooner fan
2/9/2007, 09:53 PM
regardless whether you can afford one or not.....here, there, or anywhere,

it IS a moral issue

Harry Beanbag
2/9/2007, 10:29 PM
To me at least, abortion is really pretty much a non-issue. I don't like it and all, but there are a lot of things I don't like. I know the wife and I would never abort one of our children, and I can't control what other people legally do. But there are a lot of things I can't control.

The thing I find kind of amusing is that the same people who are for abortion on demand are nearly always anti-death penalty, and the opposite also holds true. Although, I have less of a problem with the later.

Basically, I think having abortion as one's overwhelming litmus test on who to vote for is ridiculous, it kind of limits your field of candidates.

Sam Spade
2/10/2007, 03:47 PM
You are soooo wrong on that, it's not funny. During the first trimester (weeks 0-14) that the gender is determined, the nervous system has developed along with major organs, including the heart. The circulatory system has developed, which is the very system that will support the child throughout it's life, the brain has developed; limbs, fingers, bone and cartilage have formed, movement has taken place and begins to practice breathing movements. At nine weeks the fetus will grasp at something placed in it's palm. At the end of the first trimester the fetus has learned to suck it's thumb.

Hmmm.... all of that sounds like a lot more than a collection of cells with no consciousness. Sounds like a human life to me.
A venus fly trap will grab your finger, does it have a consciousness?
A tse-tse fly has a nervous system and circulatory system, does it have a consciousness?

Sorry, I don't buy it. And, again, it doesn't matter what I buy or don't buy because it won't be and shouldn't be my decision. It should be the mother's at least until the second trimester when the baby becomes a viable life outside of the womb.

jk the sooner fan
2/10/2007, 03:48 PM
A venus fly trap will grab your finger, does it have a consciousness?
A tse-tse fly has a nervous system and circulatory system, does it have a consciousness?

Sorry, I don't buy it. And, again, it doesn't matter what I buy or don't buy because it won't be and shouldn't be my decision. It should be the mother's at least until the second trimester when the baby becomes a viable life outside of the womb.

so the father has no rights in your opinion?

SicEmBaylor
2/10/2007, 03:58 PM
The lack of a father's right to have a say in whether or not his child is aborted is one of the most appalling aspects of the issue to me. Abortion is just one of many ways the rights and responsibilities of a father are being stripped away.

SoonerGirl06
2/10/2007, 05:53 PM
A venus fly trap will grab your finger, does it have a consciousness?
A tse-tse fly has a nervous system and circulatory system, does it have a consciousness?

Sorry, I don't buy it. And, again, it doesn't matter what I buy or don't buy because it won't be and shouldn't be my decision. It should be the mother's at least until the second trimester when the baby becomes a viable life outside of the womb.


How can you compare a baby vs a venus fly trap and a tse-tse fly? Is that all you have to support your argument that a fetus in the womb doesn't have a consciousness until it is able to sustain itself outside of a womb?

As far as not buying it... you don't have to buy it. It's proven fact. Check out the medical books and see for yourself.

SoonerGirl06
2/10/2007, 05:59 PM
And, again, it doesn't matter what I buy or don't buy because it won't be and shouldn't be my decision. It should be the mother's at least until the second trimester when the baby becomes a viable life outside of the womb.


I'd like to know if you'd feel the same way if you impregnated a woman and she decided to have an abortion without discussing it with you first. Would you not feel violated that she took it upon herself to make such an important decision without seeking your thoughts and feelings about it first?

It takes a man and a woman to create a child, so it should be both parties decision as to whether or not an abortion should be performed. Just because we carry the child doesn't make us the ultimate decision maker as to whether or not the baby is carried to term or aborted.

Vaevictis
2/10/2007, 06:30 PM
How can you compare a baby vs a venus fly trap and a tse-tse fly? Is that all you have to support your argument that a fetus in the womb doesn't have a consciousness until it is able to sustain itself outside of a womb?

He's not comparing a baby to a venus fly trap. He's comparing a fetus to a venus fly trap. To you, a fetus is a baby (and thusly a human being). To him, it's not.

The dinstinction/non-distinction between a fetus and a baby is really the issue that separates pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

If you believe that there is a time period between conception and the cells becoming an actual human being then it's very hard to reasonably support the illegalization of abortion. Likewise, if you believe that the cells are an actual human being from the moment of conception then it's very hard to reasonably support anything but the illegalization of abortion.

GrapevineSooner
2/10/2007, 06:42 PM
My .02,

My wife and I knew our daughter was a human being the moment we saw the flutter of her hearbeat on the sonogram. No, she wasn't viable at that point. But she was developing into a very special part of our lives.

That having been said, the liberterian in me generally supports both parents' right to choose (including the father because they have a dog in this hunt) if pre-natal care indicates the baby inside the mother's womb has a debilitating birth defect. Telling the parents in this case that they cannot choose abortion is akiin to telling the family of a terminal patient (like Terri Schiavo) that they must be kept alive merely for the sake of keeping them alive.

Where I will absolutely not support the right of either parent to choose abortion is when it's used simply as a means of birth control. I find such reasoning extremely abhorrent. If you didn't want to have the kid or knew you would not have the means to support them upon birth, you should have either protected yourself or abstained.

Sam Spade
2/14/2007, 05:20 AM
so the father has no rights in your opinion?
The father has no rights according to the law besides the rights to limitation (as per the judge's decision) and the right to go to jail if you don't pay palimony.

Sam Spade
2/14/2007, 05:33 AM
How can you compare a baby vs a venus fly trap and a tse-tse fly? Is that all you have to support your argument that a fetus in the womb doesn't have a consciousness until it is able to sustain itself outside of a womb?

As far as not buying it... you don't have to buy it. It's proven fact. Check out the medical books and see for yourself.
I'm of a mind that abortion shouldn't stop at the end of the first trimester. I think you should be able to abort people well into the ninety-third trimester...

:pop:

Tear Down This Wall
2/14/2007, 10:00 AM
Look, abortion is wrong. It kills a human life - not a plant life. Comparing humans to plants is stupid. Although, there is a professor down at the University of Texas who teaches that.

Our boy will be a year old this weekend. Within three weeks of us finding out my wife was pregnant, we went in and they let us hear his heartbeat. Folks, that's less than four weeks after I unloaded my baby gravy onto my wife baby biscuits we had a heart beat.

No amount of wishful thinking by baby killers can erase the fact that in May 2005 my wife and I screwed and in June 2005 we heard a heartbeat and saw the little guy on a monitor in the doctor's office.

It's a baby. It's not a blob. It's not an unviable "tissue mass." It's not to be likened to vegetation. The little guy was alive, and he's still alive today. We love him more than anything in this world.

Those who support baby killing in the womb are nothing more than calculating political hacks. Babies are not something to be argued, as if they were some sort of economics theory to implemented or not. Abortion is murder, and...abortion is murder. There's no way around it.

SoonersEnFuego
2/14/2007, 11:32 AM
Chuck Norris for president.

mdklatt
2/14/2007, 11:38 AM
This is purely a economic issue. Let's face it, I don't think my tax dollars should help fund other people getting abortions.

From a purely economic point of view, paying for an abortion is going to be more cost-effective than, for example, paying for a crack baby.

Fugue
2/14/2007, 11:41 AM
From a purely economic point of view, paying for an abortion is going to be more cost-effective than, for example, paying for a crack baby.

Unless said crack baby grows up to lead the Sooners to 4 straight NC's creating an economic boom in Norman with jersey sales and whatnot.... :texan:

mdklatt
2/14/2007, 12:23 PM
Unless said crack baby grows up to lead the Sooners to 4 straight NC's creating an economic boom in Norman with jersey sales and whatnot.... :texan:

Assume the crack baby dies after a couple of months in a NICU.

Sam Spade
2/14/2007, 01:05 PM
Look, abortion is wrong. It kills a human life - not a plant life. Comparing humans to plants is stupid. Although, there is a professor down at the University of Texas who teaches that.

Our boy will be a year old this weekend. Within three weeks of us finding out my wife was pregnant, we went in and they let us hear his heartbeat. Folks, that's less than four weeks after I unloaded my baby gravy onto my wife baby biscuits we had a heart beat.

No amount of wishful thinking by baby killers can erase the fact that in May 2005 my wife and I screwed and in June 2005 we heard a heartbeat and saw the little guy on a monitor in the doctor's office.

It's a baby. It's not a blob. It's not an unviable "tissue mass." It's not to be likened to vegetation. The little guy was alive, and he's still alive today. We love him more than anything in this world.

Those who support baby killing in the womb are nothing more than calculating political hacks. Babies are not something to be argued, as if they were some sort of economics theory to implemented or not. Abortion is murder, and...abortion is murder. There's no way around it.

Three weeks after having sex you heard a heartbeat?

Mutant...baby...:eek:

JohnnyMack
2/14/2007, 01:11 PM
Three weeks after having sex you heard a heartbeat?

Mutant...baby...:eek:

Learn to read smacktard.

Fugue
2/14/2007, 10:57 PM
Assume the crack baby dies after a couple of months in a NICU.

That's the thing, I wouldn't ever assume that. If it did happen it would be tragic but the price of the little guys treatment would be some of the most well spent $ that I can think of.

Just my opinion.

SoonerGirl06
2/14/2007, 11:18 PM
I'm of a mind that abortion shouldn't stop at the end of the first trimester. I think you should be able to abort people well into the ninety-third trimester...

:pop:


What kind of sick and demented person are you? :confused:

Ike
2/14/2007, 11:28 PM
What kind of sick and demented person are you? :confused:
retro-active abortions. You know, when your mom would say "I brought you into this world, and I can damn sure take you out of it!"

Personally I'm all for it. Anything to help reduce rush hour traffic ;)

SoonerGirl06
2/14/2007, 11:31 PM
Anything to help reduce rush hour traffic ;)

In that case... hell yeah! 5 o'clock traffic in Dallas.... GRRRRRR!!!!!

Sam Spade
2/14/2007, 11:48 PM
Learn to read smacktard.

Touchy...touchy...

Sam Spade
2/15/2007, 12:09 AM
In that case... hell yeah! 5 o'clock traffic in Dallas.... GRRRRRR!!!!!
Dudette...seriously...try the 93 in Boston during Rush Hour. Or the 405 in LA during summer rush hour. Houston's pretty derned baaahd, too.

Maybe we SHOULD make all abortions illegal, but make there be a 1 year "Let's rethink this thing" clause where abortions ARE legal...from the ages of 24-25.

That's usually when you know for sure a person is an ******* and not just immature or an idiot.

Oh...wait...idiots should be retroactively aborted, too...


;)

SoonerGirl06
2/15/2007, 12:11 AM
Dudette...seriously...try the 93 in Boston during Rush Hour. Or the 405 in LA during summer rush hour. Houston's pretty derned baaahd, too.

Maybe we SHOULD make all abortions illegal, but make there be a 1 year "Let's rethink this thing" clause where abortions ARE legal...from the ages of 24-25.

That's usually when you know for sure a person is an ******* and not just immature or an idiot.

Oh...wait...idiots should be retroactively aborted, too...


;)


You're just soooo not right. :P