Texas governor orders STD vaccine for all girls

[KC//CRIMSON]

Texas governor orders STD vaccine for all girls.:texan:

Decision comes after maker of cervical cancer shot doubled lobbying effort.

AUSTIN, Texas - Bypassing the Legislature altogether, Republican Gov. Rick Perry issued an order Friday making Texas the first state to require that schoolgirls get vaccinated against the sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer.

By employing an executive order, Perry sidestepped opposition in the Legislature from conservatives and parents’ rights groups who fear such a requirement would condone premarital sex and interfere with the way Texans raise their children.

Beginning in September 2008, girls entering the sixth grade — meaning, generally, girls ages 11 and 12 — will have to receive Gardasil, Merck & Co.’s new vaccine against strains of the human papillomavirus, or HPV.

Perry also directed state health authorities to make the vaccine available free to girls 9 to 18 who are uninsured or whose insurance does not cover vaccines. In addition, he ordered that Medicaid offer Gardasil to women ages 19 to 21.

Perry, a conservative Christian who opposes abortion and stem-cell research using embryonic cells, counts on the religious right for his political base. But he has said the cervical cancer vaccine is no different from the one that protects children against polio.

“The HPV vaccine provides us with an incredible opportunity to effectively target and prevent cervical cancer,” Perry said.

Merck is bankrolling efforts to pass state laws across the country mandating Gardasil for girls as young as 11 or 12. It doubled its lobbying budget in Texas and has funneled money through Women in Government, an advocacy group made up of female state legislators around the country.

Perry tied to Merck
Perry has ties to Merck and Women in Government. One of the drug company’s three lobbyists in Texas is Mike Toomey, Perry’s former chief of staff. His current chief of staff’s mother-in-law, Texas Republican state Rep. Dianne White Delisi, is a state director for Women in Government.

The governor also received $6,000 from Merck’s political action committee during his re-election campaign.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16948093/wid/11915773?GT1=9033

[royalfan5]

I don't see how this can be a bad thing.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I don't see how this can be a bad thing.


It's the whole "mandating" thing for me.

[usmc-sooner]

the government needs to stay out of healthcare. This is bs

[royalfan5]

It's the whole "mandating" thing for me.
There is an opt out option available for parents with objections. Do you have problem with other immunization requirements too?

[KC//CRIMSON]

There is an opt out option available for parents with objections. Do you have problem with other immunization requirements too?

I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but yes, there are several inoculations/immunizations that have been medically proven that they are not needed.

[royalfan5]

I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but yes, there are several inoculations/immunizations that have been medically proven that they are not needed.
Does not needed=Harmful? I take it some are needed then. Anyone who wouldn't get their daughter this vaccination is a negligent parent. HPV is the most common STI, pretty much everyone is exposed to it over the course of their life. There is no point is screwing around with your child's health.

[SicEmBaylor]

The degree to which I detest Rick Perry has no limits.

Here's a suggestion...let parents decide what vaccines their children should receive not the damned government.

[jk the sooner fan]

i wonder if people had this " anti-mandating" stance when all the other traditional vaccines became mandatory

[Okla-homey]

I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but yes, there are several inoculations/immunizations that have been medically proven that they are not needed.

I think vaccinations/immunizations are a good thing. Of coure, I was human pin cushion in the military and was shotted or pre-medicated for everything from anthrax to nerve agents and it didn't hurt me none.;)

That said, I think people who choose to forego shots for their kids, while exercising a fundamental consitutional right, are being very irresponsible parents. There's even this theory going about among the gullible and/or ignorant that the childhood battery of shots can lead to autism. :rolleyes:

Foregoing shots could put the rest of us at risk too because that is one of the ways a nearly eradicated disease can regain a foothold in the population...perhaps coming back stronger and more dangerously, like Freddie Krueger.

JMO

[birddog]

getchur damn shot and quitcher bitchin'.

[SicEmBaylor]

getchur damn *** to the government re-education camp and quitcher bitchin'.
:rolleyes:

[SicEmBaylor]

One way to solve this problem is by pulling your kids out of the public education system and either homeschooling or sending them to a private school (assuming the private school hasn't adopted the same vaccination policy).

The problem of course is that a lot of families don't have the time to home educate or the money to send them to a private school effectively locking a large number of poor children into a public school that dictates how the parents raise that child.

[Okla-homey]

The degree to which I detest Rick Perry has no limits.

Here's a suggestion...let parents decide what vaccines their children should receive not the damned government.

Here's the problem with that thinking bubba. If we left it up to parents (or in too many cases, a single parent,) lots of kids wouldn't get their shots because their dumbass and/or worthless parent(s) wouldn't see to it their kids got their shots. That would result in an unnecessary and expensive rise of disease in the population. That would cost us all money, negatively impact the economy and ultimately affect national security.

Therefore, I'm waiting on the right case to come along to have the Supremes use just that argument to trump the fundamental right of parents to raise kids as they see fit. After all, compulsory education is constitutional for the same reasons I cited above. The difference on education is, you can home school and meet the intent of compulsory education. You can't eschew shots and protect the public's health and well-being.

[KC//CRIMSON]

If you don't want to have a say in whether or not someone can put a man-made drug into your daughters body, than that's your dealio. Me on the other hand, not so much.

It kind of blows my mind how people are so willing to believe that all drugs are safe.

And we can all give examples and it still doesn't really change anything or anyones mind.

ps. I've never had the flu. And I've never had a flu shot. Go figure.

[jrsooner]

There is an opt out option available for parents with objections. Do you have problem with other immunization requirements too?My wife did research on this and talked with doctors concerning states that 90% of the cases is because the STD. Perry is using the cancer bit instead of just stating the "your kid is going to be bopping, so vaccinate them against the STD" attitudes. The "let's keep your kid sexual active" groups must have hit him hard this last week. :(

[SicEmBaylor]

Here's the problem with that thinking bubba. If we left it up to parents (or in too many cases, a single parent, lots of kids wouldn't get their shots because their dumbass and/or worthless parent(s) wouldn't see to it their kids got their shots. That would result in an unnecessary and expensive rise of disease in the population. That would cost us all money, negatively impact the economy and ultimately affect national security.

You've got to understand, and I would have thought you'd figure this out about me by now, I realize the problem. I simply don't care. Parents today seem utterly and completely useless and probably should have been sterilized at puberty to avoid populating the earth with another generation of morons. Nonetheless, I sure as hell don't believe in the government stepping in and assuming the role of proper parenting for them.

[Okla-homey]

If you don't want to have a say in whether or not someone can put a man-made drug into your daughters body, than that's your dealio. Me on the other hand, not so much.



I gather you guys don't drink tapwater or eat processed foods that have been irradiated and/or contain "man-made drugs" in the form of food additives?

See, its just kinda irreconcilable to take a stand on shots when we put so much other man-made stuff into ourselves. And in much larger quantities over the course of a given year. It just seems kinda superstitious, or something like that.

[SicEmBaylor]

I gather you guys don't drink tapwater or eat processed foods that have been irradiated and/or contain "man-made drugs" in the form of food additives?

See, its just kinda irreconcilable to take a stand on shots when we put so much other man-made stuff into ourselves. It just seems kinda superstitious or something like that.

In his defense, I don't think his problem is with putting ANY man made substance into his or his daughter's body. I think the problem is with the government making it mandatory to do so without allowing the parent to make a judgment call on whether it's a good idea to do so or not.

[Okla-homey]

You've got to understand, and I would have thought you'd figure this out about me by now, I realize the problem. I simply don't care. Parents today seem utterly and completely useless and probably should have been sterilized at puberty to avoid populating the earth with another generation of morons. Nonetheless, I sure as hell don't believe in the government stepping in and assuming the role of proper parenting for them.

I care because I don't want my tax dollars paying to treat some poor horribly retarded kid whose mom contracted rubella while pregnant from some kid who wasn't vaccinated. I also don't want to pay to treat kids who got mumps, developed complications and end up in the hospital when it could have been avoided with 50 cents worth of vaccine.

[Okla-homey]

In his defense, I don't think his problem is with putting ANY man made substance into his or his daughter's body. I think the problem is with the government making it mandatory to do so without allowing the parent to make a judgment call on whether it's a good idea to do so or not.

WTF is flouridation in the water but a mandated additive? What about preservatives required by the government to ensure wholesomeness? Mandated vitamin additives? Eating meat that had to be vaccinated while on the hoof? Its all the same thing if you think about it.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I gather you guys don't drink tapwater or eat processed foods that have been irradiated and/or contain "man-made drugs" in the form of food additives?

See, its just kinda irreconcilable to take a stand on shots when we put so much other man-made stuff into ourselves. And in much larger quantities over the course of a given year. It just seems kinda superstitious, or something like that.

I do drink a lot of bottled water, more so than tap. But yes, I do drink from the tap from time to time. And most food I eat is not organic.

The difference in your argument and mine is "the choice" I don't have to drink from the tap or buy products with hormones or pesticides or whatever because it's not mandated, it's a free choice.

Speaking of military, did you ever take Lariam? We get lawsuit cases on the stuff every day, and I do mean every day. Bad stuff.

[SicEmBaylor]

WTF is flouridation in the water but a mandated additive? What about preservatives required by the government to ensure wholesomeness? Mandated vitamin additives? Eating meat that had to be vaccinated while on the hoof? Its all the same thing if you think about it.

But in all of those cases there are alternatives to avoid all of those things. At the end of the day it's still a choice (for costs, convenience, or people just don't care which is my position) whether to consume those things.

In those cases the government isn't saying, "You have to drink public water with fluoride before you enter a public building."

[Okla-homey]

I do drink a lot of bottled water, more so than tap. But yes, I do drink from the tap from time to time. And most food I eat is not organic.

The difference in your argument and mine is "the choice" I don't have to drink from the tap or buy products with hormones or pesticides or whatever because it's not mandated, it's a free choice.

Speaking of military, did you ever take Lariam? We get lawsuit cases on the stuff every day, and I do mean every day. Bad stuff.

I took some crap whose name I can't pronounce "pyrestime bromide" or something like that. The flight doc called 'em "PB pills" for short. It was 'sposed to make the effects of nerve gas less severe.

Anyway, I understand your concern, I just don't think any of us have a practical alternative to avoiding man-made stuff in our food and liquids. Therefore, why not just go with it and get the shots too? Improved nutrition, mandatory sanitation ordinances and shots are three of the biggest reasons kids born today live healthier and longer lives than kids born 100 years ago. Just look at average life span statistics by decade.

[Frozen Sooner]

I really wish more states had the Rahvin case as stare decisis so that this test could be applied more frequently.

Rahvin is a case that came before the Alaska Supreme Court arguing that the State did not have a compelling enough public interest to violate Rahvin's constitutionally-mandated right to privacy over his possession of a certain amount of marijuana. The court agreed with this argument and stated that any government intrusion into the private practices of the individual must be shown to be outweighed by compelling public interest.

This law would seem to meet the Rahvin test. There is a compelling public interest in preventing the spread of disease, particularly a fatal one. The invasion of privacy is minimal-simply a one-time injection as I understand it. I do get that there's the argument that any violation of the sanctity of one's body is an invasion of privacy of the most heinous sort-I just don't happen to agree.

There is also the argument that parents should be allowed to raise their children as they see fit. This argument fails in the face of any number of good laws that forbid parents from raising their children as they see fit: for one, you don't have the right to beat your child within an inch of his life. Some can (and have) argued that it is Biblical to be able to physically harm your child (and I'm not talking about spanking, I'm talking about burning them with cigarettes, breaking limbs, whipping, stuff that's pretty excessive.) In this case, society has deemed that the parent does not have the right to raise their child in the way they see fit as they are causing harm to the child. Refusing a vaccination is simply part of that continuum-your child is at risk for a life-threatening disease. A preventative measure is available that will eliminate the risk of the disease. Sure, they could avoid that disease by NEVER having sex, but almost no study shows that abstinence education is any kind of a deterrent to children actually having sex.

[Okla-homey]

But in all of those cases there are alternatives to avoid all of those things. At the end of the day it's still a choice (for costs, convenience, or people just don't care which is my position) whether to consume those things.

In those cases the government isn't saying, "You have to drink public water with fluoride before you enter a public building."

No they aren't, but dammit, they may as well be because that's what comes out of the flippin' taps BY LAW. Even if you drink "bottled water," you probably still cook with the stuff from the pipe...unless you are a confirmed looney.

[SicEmBaylor]

...unless you are a confirmed looney.

*ahem* :D

[KC//CRIMSON]

I really wish more states had the Rahvin case as stare decisis so that this test could be applied more frequently.

Rahvin is a case that came before the Alaska Supreme Court arguing that the State did not have a compelling enough public interest to violate Rahvin's constitutionally-mandated right to privacy over his possession of a certain amount of marijuana. The court agreed with this argument and stated that any government intrusion into the private practices of the individual must be shown to be outweighed by compelling public interest.

This law would seem to meet the Rahvin test. There is a compelling public interest in preventing the spread of disease, particularly a fatal one. The invasion of privacy is minimal-simply a one-time injection as I understand it. I do get that there's the argument that any violation of the sanctity of one's body is an invasion of privacy of the most heinous sort-I just don't happen to agree.

There is also the argument that parents should be allowed to raise their children as they see fit. This argument fails in the face of any number of good laws that forbid parents from raising their children as they see fit: for one, you don't have the right to beat your child within an inch of his life. Some can (and have) argued that it is Biblical to be able to physically harm your child (and I'm not talking about spanking, I'm talking about burning them with cigarettes, breaking limbs, whipping, stuff that's pretty excessive.) In this case, society has deemed that the parent does not have the right to raise their child in the way they see fit as they are causing harm to the child. Refusing a vaccination is simply part of that continuum-your child is at risk for a life-threatening disease. A preventative measure is available that will eliminate the risk of the disease. Sure, they could avoid that disease by NEVER having sex, but almost no study shows that abstinence education is any kind of a deterrent to children actually having sex.



Gardasil — at $360 for the three-shot regimen.


I didn't C&P the whole article. My bad.

[Scott D]

There is also the argument that parents should be allowed to raise their children as they see fit. This argument fails in the face of any number of good laws that forbid parents from raising their children as they see fit: for one, you don't have the right to beat your child within an inch of his life. Some can (and have) argued that it is Biblical to be able to physically harm your child (and I'm not talking about spanking, I'm talking about burning them with cigarettes, breaking limbs, whipping, stuff that's pretty excessive.) In this case, society has deemed that the parent does not have the right to raise their child in the way they see fit as they are causing harm to the child. Refusing a vaccination is simply part of that continuum-your child is at risk for a life-threatening disease. A preventative measure is available that will eliminate the risk of the disease. Sure, they could avoid that disease by NEVER having sex, but almost no study shows that abstinence education is any kind of a deterrent to children actually having sex.

My personal favorite is the application of toothpaste to the rectum of an unruly child. Some woman is up on sexual abuse charges for using that as a form of punishment for her daughter.

[Scott D]

I took some crap whose name I can't pronounce "pyrestime bromide" or something like that. The flight doc called 'em "PB pills" for short. It was 'sposed to make the effects of nerve gas less severe.

Anyway, I understand your concern, I just don't think any of us have a practical alternative to avoiding man-made stuff in our food and liquids. Therefore, why not just go with it and get the shots too? Improved nutrition, mandatory sanitation ordinances and shots are three of the biggest reasons kids born today live healthier and longer lives than kids born 100 years ago. Just look at average life span statistics by decade.

Besides, Homey likes that steroids in our meat products have led to girls developing larger hoohahs at a younger age.

[Vaevictis]

WTF is flouridation in the water but a mandated additive?

Speaking of which, these are good programs. My wife grew up in a country that didn't have flouridated water, and in return for the extra "freedom" she had in not receiving it, I've dropped about $20k on dental work in the past 10 years.

[tbl]

I blame Jonas Salk.

[KC//CRIMSON]

"Merck, the same great company that brought you VIOXX":D

[Chuck Bao]

Parents today seem utterly and completely useless and probably should have been sterilized at puberty to avoid populating the earth with another generation of morons. Nonetheless, I sure as hell don't believe in the government stepping in and assuming the role of proper parenting for them.

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight

Mandatory sterilization of morons = good
Mandatory vaccination of school children = bad

:rolleyes:

[SicEmBaylor]

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight

Mandatory sterilization of morons = good
Mandatory vaccination of school children = bad

:rolleyes:

lol, That was a joke. I was trying to show that the best way to avoid the problem of forcing parents to give their kids needed vaccinations is to sterilize the ones too dumb to do so before they're ever put in that position.

No, I don't like mandatory government sterilization. ;)

[achiro]

Homey, I don't have the time, nor the patience today to pick your argument apart piece by piece but I do have the time to tell you that you are completely misinformed on many of the things you have stated so far. Please humor me though and find some evidence(that isn't backed by the vaccine manufactures) to back what you've posted here, this should be fun.

As far as vaccines causing or not causing autism, tell the parent who starts with a perfectly "normal" child, singing and interacting until 3 days after the shots are given that they are "gullible" for suspecting that there may be a connection!:rolleyes: Do I believe that it is the cause in all cases, absolutely not, but there is too much "coincidence" to just blow it off.

You want a bit of info, www.909shot.com is a pretty good site with good and bad points of both decisions.

[yermom]

sounds like someone is getting paid on the Gardasil thing... regardless of the "morality" thing

assuming the vaccine is safe, how is this any different than mandatory Polio vaccines or something? what little girl isn't going to eventually have sex? why would you want to gamble that you can pick when you think she'd wait to give it up? it's not like an HPV vaccine is some license to go have sex unprotected sex with transients. last time i checked there are still things a lot to worry about other than a little cauliflower down there

[saucysoonergal]

I know this gal from highschool. She home-schools her kids and did not have them immunized because of the black helicopters and whatnot, and her inlaws and husband are uber-religious. They think the public schools are of the devil and so are the shots.

Meanwhile she is sleeping around with half of the illegals in my hometown. She also had an affair with her husbands cousin.

I just hope her kids never step on a rusty nail or sit on the same toilet their mom uses.

[Cam]

Parents today seem utterly and completely useless and probably should have been sterilized at puberty to avoid populating the earth with another generation of morons.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. :mad:

[SicEmBaylor]

I just hope her kids never step on a rusty nail or sit on the same toilet their mom uses.

That is why you should ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS use a heavy duty disinfectant cleaner on ALL toilet seats before sitting on them. Even clean those in your own home among your own family. Blood relation doesn't make those bastards clean.

[Vaevictis]

That is why you should ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS use a heavy duty disinfectant cleaner on ALL toilet seats before sitting on them. Even clean those in your own home among your own family. Blood relation doesn't make those bastards clean.

What about the doorknobs?

[SicEmBaylor]

What about the doorknobs?

Bathroom door knobs...yes
The rest of them I just chalk up to unavoidable germs. Hand sanitizer is my friend.

[Okla-homey]

Homey, I don't have the time, nor the patience today to pick your argument apart piece by piece but I do have the time to tell you that you are completely misinformed on many of the things you have stated so far. Please humor me though and find some evidence(that isn't backed by the vaccine manufactures) to back what you've posted here, this should be fun.

As far as vaccines causing or not causing autism, tell the parent who starts with a perfectly "normal" child, singing and interacting until 3 days after the shots are given that they are "gullible" for suspecting that there may be a connection!:rolleyes: Do I believe that it is the cause in all cases, absolutely not, but there is too much "coincidence" to just blow it off.

You want a bit of info, www.909shot.com is a pretty good site with good and bad points of both decisions.

Coming from a chiropractor...that's just rich.

Anyway, the site says it's a "grassroots" org formed by a couple of mommies with no scientific credentials whatsoever. Further, the site claims that since the org formed in 1982, there have been 1400 judgments against vaccine makers and providers for alleged harm.

Now, do the math. How many millions of shots have been given to American children in 25 years? Lets make a conservative estimate based on the total number of first-graders in just the three most largest states. NY, CA and TX combine for 1 million first graders this year. Now, lets multiply that number by 25 years, okay? Thats 25 million first graders in just three states over 25 years. Let's knock of 5 million to allow for the the population growth in those states over the period. What these crackpots are saying is 1400 kids nationally were believed to have been hurt by vaccines over 25 years. IOW, that many plaintiffs won their lawsuits. If they were all in just those three states, the number would still represent only .00007 of that 20 million number. Boy howdy, that's scary ain't it? That number is not even close to being statistically significant. And I'm not even going to pursue the fact that each of those 20 million kids got at least a half dozen shots...because I suck at math and I'm tired.

Now, if those same 20 million had not been vaccinated, how many would have gotten sick or died? I haven't a clue, but I'll bet you a paycheck it would be a much higher number than those 1400 kids.

These people aren't doing a service, they are stirring up controversy and mistrust of modern medicine among the ignorant and gullible and should be ashamed of themselves. If I were Emperor of America, I'd have them taken out and shot...with a gun, not a syringe. In an earlier day, these kind of folks were standing in the village square accusing folks of witchcraft and stuff. Moronic rabble. Plain and simple.

[SoonerGirl06]

There's even this theory going about among the gullible and/or ignorant that the childhood battery of shots can lead to autism. :rolleyes:

From my understanding there have been studies which show it's the mercury that is used in the vaccinations that causes the autism.



Foregoing shots could put the rest of us at risk too because that is one of the ways a nearly eradicated disease can regain a foothold in the population...perhaps coming back stronger and more dangerously, like Freddie Krueger.

This is happening as we speak, believe it or not. There are numerous cases in which diseases that were once irradicated are now on the rise as well as new diseases that this country has never seen before and are contributed to the influx of illegals coming into this country.

[SoonerGirl06]

While I'm not against vaccinations, I find it interesting that Perry has bypassed the legislation and has mandated that this take effect. There needs to be an investigation into his relationship with Merck. Seems to me that there were some behind the door meetings on this matter and needs to be checked into further.

[1stTimeCaller]

Do I make a joke about a man-made substance entering a daughter's body or do I keep that to myself?

Some of you people are living proof that if Bill Gates handed out $10 bills to everyone some people would bitch about not getting a $20.

If the drug does prevent HPV why would you not want your daughter to be immunized? Sorry Sally, we protected your Constitutional rights when you were younger, that's why your cervix is eating itself and you will not live to see your 40th birthday. We were just acting with your best interests in mind. :rolleyes:

[yermom]

i wonder how much jack the Gov. makes on every shot from Merck?

if it's safe, i think you are nuts to not do it

$360 for every little girl in Texas is a ****load of money though

[SoonerGirl06]

i wonder how much jack the Gov. makes on every shot from Merck?

if it's safe, i think you are nuts to not do it

$360 for every little girl in Texas is a ****load of money though


Have there been enough studies to determine that it's safe and what, if any are the long term effects? Those are the questions I think parents need to ask their doctors before giving their daughters the vaccinations.

[Okla-homey]

All I know is this, Mrs Homey is an RN w/a BSN and an MS and she's been working exclusively in womens and childrens health her entire 25 year professional career. She recently put our 20 y/o daughter on notice that the next time she's home from college, she's marching her down to get this shot...and we don't even have reason to believe she's all that sexually active. It just makes good sense.

Frankly, cervical cancer, like all cancers, is a horrible way to die. If there's a good chance this will keep her from getting it someday, than it's worth a shot (no pun intended). Heck, if they come up with a vaccine to help prevent prostate cancer, I'd stand in line for it.

[1stTimeCaller]

there was a time when if the FDA approved a drug it was safe, I think.

$360 isn't much money to prevent any type of cancer. If the drug works as advertised.

[Okla-homey]

From my understanding there have been one or two studies which aren't particularly well supported, which seem to show the mercury that was once used in the compounding of vaccines might in some way be remotely linked to autism. Or not. Its only a theory and there's no proof either way. The good news is, mercury is no longer used at any stage of the vaccine making process so the whole debate is now moot.


Fixed it.:D

[SoonerGirl06]

Fixed it.:D


You're too kind! :)

[yermom]

i haven't heard that they stopped using Mercury... just that they didn't think it caused a problem

[SoonerGirl06]

i haven't heard that they stopped using Mercury... just that they didn't think it caused a problem


Actually, I think you're correct about Mercury still being used in vaccinations. It's about 50/50 with the medical establisment whether Mercury is dangerous or not.

[yermom]

http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm


Today, with the exception of some Influenza (flu) vaccines, none of the vaccines used in the U.S. to protect preschool children against 12 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative.

[Okla-homey]

This from the "belly of the beast" (the website started by the crackpots who think vaccinations do more harm that good):


Mercury/Thimerosal

Almost every vaccine used for children is now produced in a thimerosal-free form. Several vaccines continue to have trace amounts of thimerosal.

Ask your doctor for thimerosal-free vaccines. Ask to see the package insert and the vial that is used that contains the vaccine. [Presumably because Dr Evil, you know, the person you trust with your child's health, might pull the old switcheroo on you and intentionally shoot your kid up with mercury laced vaccines he keeps in storage, which would surely turn your child into a raving lunatic within 30 minutes]
Some versions of tetanus and flu vaccines still contain the full amount of thimerosal

I have no idea if this is accurate, because any foolio can put whatever they want on the innerweb, but assuming these nutjobs are correct, it would seem one can insist on mercury-free vaccines.

[achiro]

Coming from a chiropractor...that's just rich.
feel free to explain to me what you mean by this statement.




Anyway, the site says it's a "grassroots" org formed by a couple of mommies with no scientific credentials whatsoever. Further, the site claims that since the org formed in 1982, there have been 1400 judgments against vaccine makers and providers for alleged harm.

Now, do the math. How many millions of shots have been given to American children in 25 years? Lets make a conservative estimate based on the total number of first-graders in just the three most largest states. NY, CA and TX combine for 1 million first graders this year. Now, lets multiply that number by 25 years, okay? Thats 25 million first graders in just three states over 25 years. Let's knock of 5 million to allow for the the population growth in those states over the period. What these crackpots are saying is 1400 kids nationally were believed to have been hurt by vaccines over 25 years. IOW, that many plaintiffs won their lawsuits. If they were all in just those three states, the number would still represent only .00007 of that 20 million number. Boy howdy, that's scary ain't it? That number is not even close to being statistically significant. And I'm not even going to pursue the fact that each of those 20 million kids got at least a half dozen shots...because I suck at math and I'm tired.

Now, if those same 20 million had not been vaccinated, how many would have gotten sick or died? I haven't a clue, but I'll bet you a paycheck it would be a much higher number than those 1400 kids.

These people aren't doing a service, they are stirring up controversy and mistrust of modern medicine among the ignorant and gullible and should be ashamed of themselves. If I were Emperor of America, I'd have them taken out and shot...with a gun, not a syringe. In an earlier day, these kind of folks were standing in the village square accusing folks of witchcraft and stuff. Moronic rabble. Plain and simple.

Funny, you call what they say "moronic rabble" and I say that what you are saying is "moronic rabble" Which one is right? I still haven't seen anything more from you than a few OPINIONS and a lot of insulting. There is a lot more out there on the dangers of vaccines. There is also a lot more out there on whether the benefit really does outweigh the risk, in many cases when you look at the numbers, it ends up in a big question mark. It's certainly not as cut and dried as you are trying to make it out to be.
Oh, and you tell me how YOU would feel if your kid was the one that died from a "mandated" vaccine. What if I told you that your child was statistically insignificant?:rolleyes:

As far as a "couple of moms" trust me they have become much more than that. They were certainly a big part of the movement that had themarisol removed from the majority of vaccines.

[MamaMia]

The vaccination is so new that it scares me. My daughters are over the age of eighteen and can get this vaccination if they so choose, but I think I'll wait a couple of years to see if anything weird happens to the Texas recipients before I actually recommend this vaccination to my girls.

[Okla-homey]

feel free to explain to me what you mean by this statement.

Therapeutic massage/chiropractic can make people temporarily feel better, but it can't heal or prevent disease, notwithstanding any claims of the "profession."

Funny, you call what they say "moronic rabble" and I say that what you are saying is "moronic rabble" Which one is right? I still haven't seen anything more from you than a few OPINIONS and a lot of insulting. There is a lot more out there on the dangers of vaccines. There is also "a lot out there" on abductions by space aliens and the health benefits of wearing magnets.

There is also a lot more out there on whether the benefit really does outweigh the risk, in many cases when you look at the numbers, it ends up in a big question mark. Question mark? Great Caesars Ghost man! Just do the math! A simple comparison of the numbers of kids who have allegedly been harmed by vaccinations compared to the overwhelming number who have been benefited by them is the only proof any reasonable person should need. Heck, I'm certain there have been a comparable number of people who have been hurt by seatbelts in cars, but (at least I hope) no collection of crackpots are arguing that we jettison mandatory seatbelt use laws because of that fact.

It's certainly not as cut and dried as you are trying to make it out to be. No, its not only "cut and dried," its also cured, packaged and on your grocery store shelf ready to heat and eat.

Oh, and you tell me how YOU would feel if your kid was the one that died from a "mandated" vaccine. What if I told you that your child was statistically insignificant?:rolleyes: I'd say, "dang! we had some bad luck there, but sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason." Honestly. here's the thing, we lost a child to SIDS a long time ago. It hurt and it took a long time to get over it, but we didn't jump on any conspiracy bandwagon and didn't devote a lot of our lives to blaming anyone or anything. That's the key to understanding this. People often deal with grief by trying to find a cause of their misfortune and blaming something or someone -- and many don't let reason get in the way of their basic need to find a cause to blame. Often, that sentiment manifests in suing somebody -- which I'm convinced based on a viewing of the "information" on the website is what this group is mostly about.

As far as a "couple of moms" trust me they have become much more than that. They were certainly a big part of the movement that had themarisol removed from the majority of vaccines.

I'm trying to express a very basic cost-benefit analysis of childhood vaccinations. Even if we accept a couple thousand may be hurt by a bad reaction to vaccinations, compared to the countless millions who have been benfitted by them, the argument against mandatory vaccinations just doesn't hold up among reasonable people. Look, kids get hurt by playing contact sports. Sometimes kids die playing contact sports. That said, the overwhelming majority of kids never suffer serious injury from playing contact sports and enjoy immeasurable benefits from the experience, ergo, despite claims to the contrary by some group like "Mommies against high school football," kids still play under the lights on fall Friday nights -- which is as it should be.

If a person honestly believes "the jury is still out" on the benefit if compulsory childhood vaccinations, nothing I can say or demonstrate is going to change her mind because she is not being reasonable. It comes down to whether a person believes authorities like the CDC and the WHO or puts his faith in some crackpot coalition of people who are ultimately trying to sue vaccine makers for alleged harm to their child.

Did you check out the section of the website you linked which deals with litigation? I did. Although they catalogued a couple dozen law firms in the US who take these cases, they were careful to point out no one has yet won a case linking the vaccine preservative containing a scant amount of mercury to any harm. That speaks volumes IMHO.

See, in court, you generally have to prove a claim in order to get damages. The fact no one has been able to do that to the satisfaction of a jury means this notion is kooky --especially since the standard of proof in such civil litigation is generally "by a preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt" as in criminal proceedings.

Put another way, that means the plaintiff has to make the jury beleive there is at least a 51% chance the vaccine harmed their kid. Given the fact juries are usually quite sympathetic to the claims of parents on behalf of injured children, the fact no one has yet been able to win one of these cases is proof to me it's a patently silly proposition that childhood vaccines cause harm in otherwise healthy children.

Now, over to you. What proof have you that the vaccine preservative containg a chemically scant amount of mercury causes harm? No opinions mind you, something demonstrable and scientifically repeatable please. Sure, they no longer use that preservative, but I submit that is a concession to the frightened rabble more than pulling a hazardous product. Kinda like silicone breast implants, which, BTW are legal again after a decade of unuse in the wake of the witch trials which condemned them.

[achiro]

Coming from a chiropractor...that's just rich.

feel free to explain to me what you mean by this statement.


Therapeutic massage/chiropractic can make people temporarily feel better, but it can't heal or prevent disease, notwithstanding any claims of the "profession."

What this has to do with anything that we are talking about regarding vaccinations, I don't know. I'm sure it was meant as yet another shot at me and my profession of choice. What I will say that the ignorance it is filled with just proves that you don't know what the **** you are talking about, reading the rest would just be a waste of time.

[NormanPride]

:pop:

[jeremy885]

Speaking of which, these are good programs. My wife grew up in a country that didn't have flouridated water, and in return for the extra "freedom" she had in not receiving it, I've dropped about $20k on dental work in the past 10 years.


You too? I'm having to get my wife 5 crowns because Russia never flouridated it's water.

[SicEmBaylor]

You too? I'm having to get my wife 5 crowns because Russia never flouridated it's water.

In Russia, the water fluoridates you!

[Okla-homey]

What this has to do with anything that we are talking about regarding vaccinations, I don't know. I'm sure it was meant as yet another shot at me and my profession of choice. What I will say that the ignorance it is filled with just proves that you don't know what the **** you are talking about, reading the rest would just be a waste of time.

So it's about faith, not science or reason. Got it.

[achiro]

So it's about faith, not science or reason. Got it.
Where are you getting this stuff. I've asked YOU to back your OPINION up, you haven't done it yet. You are awfully quick to throw around the insults though.

My point: There is plenty of science, it just takes someone that is willing to hear it objectively, even if it is doesn't say what they think it should.

Oh, and since you brought up SIDS here's some info related to vaccines:


Along with many European countries, Australia made childhood vaccination non-mandatory. When half of the families opted out of the vaccine programs SIDS (crib death) dropped by 50%!

Searching the literature, Dr. Scheibner discovered that when Japan moved the vaccination age to two years in 1975 crib death and infantile convulsions virtually disappeared! Japan then recorded the lowest incidence of infant mortality in the world. (American babies receive their first shot at two months.)

Recently the Japanese government made vaccination under the age of two years an option. Many parents took that option, had their child vaccinated at age 2 months, and crib death is now increasing.

As far as no awards, vaccines, and SIDS:


Although long denied by medical groups the vaccination-crib death link has been recognized by the National Vaccine Compensation Office in Washington. So far about $500 million has already been awarded to families of vaccine damaged children with about half the money to the parents of children killed by shots. Their death certificates were originally labeled “sudden infant death syndrome of unknown origin” since doctors are loathe to write “vaccine death.” (There are about 4,000 more cases in the pipeline with total compensation in the several billions of dollars. Right now no more money can be awarded, the compensation office is presently bankrupt.)


Just so you know, The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program:



The Program, which became effective October 1, 1988, is unique among federal benefit programs in its organizational structure and decisionmaking processes. It was intended to provide an alternative to the tort system for dealing with claims of vaccine-related injury, awarding compensation quickly, fairly, and efficiently.

In other words, many of the injury claims never go to court as a result of this.
But then again, you know everything about all of this stuff, and your right, its all about faith, no science involved at all.:rolleyes:

[sooneron]

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman/jack_nicholson/batman3.jpg

"sometimes to make an omelette, ya gotta break a few eggs!"
:D

[MamaMia]

WTF is flouridation in the water but a mandated additive? What about preservatives required by the government to ensure wholesomeness? Mandated vitamin additives? Eating meat that had to be vaccinated while on the hoof? Its all the same thing if you think about it.

Speaking of which, these are good programs. My wife grew up in a country that didn't have flouridated water, and in return for the extra "freedom" she had in not receiving it, I've dropped about $20k on dental work in the past 10 years.

You too? I'm having to get my wife 5 crowns because Russia never flouridated it's water.Fluoride is ineffective at preventing tooth decay in the pits & fissures of teeth where the majority of decay occurs. My husband who is a dentist, a genius, and very sexy, feels that fluoride in our drinking water is politically motivated and may be more harmful than helpful.

:pop: Please continue.

[Chuck Bao]

Fluoride is ineffective at preventing tooth decay in the pits & fissures of teeth where the majority of decay occurs. My husband who is a dentist, a genius, and very sexy, feels that fluoride in our drinking water is politically motivated and may be more harmful than helpful.

:pop: Please continue.

More harmful for whom? Dentists? Just asking.

[SoonerGirl06]

Fluoride is ineffective at preventing tooth decay in the pits & fissures of teeth where the majority of decay occurs. My husband who is a dentist, a genius, and very sexy, feels that fluoride in our drinking water is politically motivated and may be more harmful than helpful.

:pop: Please continue.


After reading our city newsletter which informs the public what is found in the drinking water... I ABSOLUTELY refuse to drink tap water anymore. Some of the few things I remember are traces of animal and human feces.... Sorry, but the thought of putting something containing those things to my lips sickens me.

[Frozen Sooner]

Fluoride is ineffective at preventing tooth decay in the pits & fissures of teeth where the majority of decay occurs. My husband who is a dentist, a genius, and very sexy, feels that fluoride in our drinking water is politically motivated and may be more harmful than helpful.

:pop: Please continue.

Interesting. I obviously don't have the same level of expertise that your husband does in the field, but I do have some anecdotal evidence that flouridation works.

I took terrible care of my teeth when I was a kid. I still have all of mine with only minor work to be done. Our water was flouridated.

SuperGirl takes obsessive care of her teeth and has for her entire life. Did not grow up with flouridated water. She just now had her first no-cavity checkup in her life at age 29.

[Frozen Sooner]

After reading our city newsletter which informs the public what is found in the drinking water... I ABSOLUTELY refuse to drink tap water anymore. Some of the few things I remember are traces of animal and human feces.... Sorry, but the thought of putting something containing those things to my lips sickens me.

Good luck with that. Dasani bottle water in particular was found once to contain high levels of fecal matter.

[MamaMia]

More harmful for whom? Dentists? Just asking.
Hating dentists can lead to Cowboy Mouth Syndrome. Just saying.

[SoonerGirl06]

Good luck with that. Dasani bottle water in particular was found once to contain high levels of fecal matter.

You're kidding me? Dasani isn't particularly my bottled water of choice, but if it's been found to contain that then the rest of them probably do as well.

Good grief! The last thing I want to think about when I'm guzzeling water is small pieces of s*** floating around in it.

:(

[Chuck Bao]

Hating dentists can lead to Cowboy Mouth Syndrome. Just saying.

Seriously, I was asking why.

And, what is Cowboy Mouth Syndrome?

[Rook65]

I think we need more lithium in tap water.

[yermom]

i'm sure it's just a tolerances thing... i mean everything has it's acceptable level of feces or rat hairs or whatever

[MamaMia]

Seriously, I was asking why.

And, what is Cowboy Mouth Syndrome?http://essenes.net/flouride.html

[SicEmBaylor]

This is why I do not eat.

[Scott D]

After reading our city newsletter which informs the public what is found in the drinking water... I ABSOLUTELY refuse to drink tap water anymore. Some of the few things I remember are traces of animal and human feces.... Sorry, but the thought of putting something containing those things to my lips sickens me.

is your bathroom sink within ten feet of your toilet? Because I guarantee your toothbrush has trace amounts of fecal matter on it.

[1stTimeCaller]

is your bathroom sink within ten feet of your toilet? Because I guarantee your toothbrush has trace amounts of fecal matter on it.

I personally know of an area of carpet 20 feet from a bathroom that had high amounts of urine on it. Just sayin'

[Penguin]

I've kinda skimmed this thread.

All this argument over a cancer vaccine just because somebody throws "STD" in there. I knew the Southern Baptists would be against the cure. Well, of course! If your daughter gets the shot, you are giving her complete permission to screw every guy she meets, duh. :rolleyes:

Give her a shot, you might as well be giving her a diseased penis to play with! ;)

Will people be outraged if we ever have a vaccine for HIV/AIDS?

[yermom]

it's not a cancer vaccine, it's an STD vaccine

that STD happens to be a major cause of Cervical Cancer

[Okla-homey]

Where are you getting this stuff. I've asked YOU to back your OPINION up, you haven't done it yet. You are awfully quick to throw around the insults though.

My point: There is plenty of science, it just takes someone that is willing to hear it objectively, even if it is doesn't say what they think it should.


One more time, it is irresponsible for any person who is engaged in the delivery of health care services to encourage people to "opt out" of childhood vaccinations simply and solely because the statistical likelihood of harm is overwhelmingly outweighed by the benefit to the individual patient and society in general. I stand by that. If you can't understand that or see the logic inherent in the statement, I can't be of any further assistance to you. Infer whatever additional meaning you choose, I really don't care.

[MamaMia]

We could just agree to disagree, and have us a great big fellow Sooner fan...and friends group hug? :D

http://www.geocities.com/pooshome/TeddyBears/group.gif

[1stTimeCaller]

it's not a cancer vaccine, it's an STD vaccine

that STD happens to be a major cause of Cervical Cancer

isn't that the same as saying AIDS doesn't kill people, pneumonia (sp?) does?

[jk the sooner fan]

GIVE THOSE BEARS A SHOT!!!!!!

[SoonerGirl06]

it's not a cancer vaccine, it's an STD vaccine

that STD happens to be a major cause of Cervical Cancer


I think this point has been lost among both sides of this debate. I think that it's a very good one at that.

[1stTimeCaller]

I think this point has been lost among both sides of this debate. I think that it's a very good one at that.

it would be a great point if only 10% of cervical cancer was caused by HPV.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

... Parents today seem utterly and completely useless and probably should have been sterilized at puberty to avoid populating the earth with another generation of morons. ...

If only your parents had been sterilized... :D

[SoonerGirl06]

it would be a great point if only 10% of cervical cancer was caused by HPV.


I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with this comment. Could you please clarify?

[Ike]

You're kidding me? Dasani isn't particularly my bottled water of choice, but if it's been found to contain that then the rest of them probably do as well.

Good grief! The last thing I want to think about when I'm guzzeling water is small pieces of s*** floating around in it.

:(
I believe it was Dasani that was found guilty of selling water straight from the Thames in Britain a few years ago. I'll see if I can dig up a link.

<edit> here is one link http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,3604,1174127,00.html
now, of course, this was only in Britain, not the US...but gives an idea of what the bottled water industry is like.

[achiro]

One more time, it is irresponsible for any person who is engaged in the delivery of health care services to encourage people to "opt out" of childhood vaccinations simply and solely because the statistical likelihood of harm is overwhelmingly outweighed by the benefit to the individual patient and society in general. I stand by that. If you can't understand that or see the logic inherent in the statement, I can't be of any further assistance to you. Infer whatever additional meaning you choose, I really don't care.
and as I said before, it is your OPINION. One that I completely disagree with. My OPINION is that anyone "who is engaged in the delivery of health care services" should encourage people to research the FACTS, and decide what the best route is for them. Giving them the other side of the argument is not irresponsible as long as they are giving them true info and not basing that info on any sort of agenda...like maybe ummmm making billions of dollars on your product. As I stated before, you continue to make statements in this thread that are not completely true or not true at all. I call you on them and instead of telling me why I am wrong, or *gasp* actually acknowledging that there may be something to it, you resort to insults. Now, I show you a few facts that dispute your side of things and you decide to take your ball and go home.

Now personally, I would never tell someone not to vaccinate their children but I would certainly encourage them to look at the info so that they can make an educated decision. People do decide not to vaccinate for several reasons but to call them ignorant, gullible, or whatever, is just completely incorrect. The highest percentage of people that CHOOSE not to are upper income, college educated folks. I can assure you the majority of them have done their homework before making the decision.

Look, you **** me off, you have continued to take little shots at me over the time that I have been here. Pretty much anytime you get a chance. None of those shots have anything to do with facts(of course why would we want to let those little things get in the way when insulting someone is so much more fun) When someone makes statements that are meant to insult me and those statements are based on ignorance and bias, I am going to say something...maybe I'm just too sensitive. I can assure you this, if you continue it, I will continue to bring your ignorance to light because I do take it personally.

[1stTimeCaller]

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with this comment. Could you please clarify?

from what I've read over 90% of cervical cancer is caused by HPV. In my book that means if you never get HPV you won't get cervical cancer.

If you are immunized from getting HPV you have also immunized yourself from getting cervical cancer.

In other words yes, it is an STD vaccine and also a cancer vaccine.

[SoonerGirl06]

I believe it was Dasani that was found guilty of selling water straight from the Thames in Britain a few years ago. I'll see if I can dig up a link.

<edit> here is one link http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,3604,1174127,00.html
now, of course, this was only in Britain, not the US...but gives an idea of what the bottled water industry is like.


Thanks for the info. I'm surprised and not surprised by all of this. If Coca-Cola tried to pull that stunt over in the UK, then I'm sure they've tried here.

[Okla-homey]

Look, you **** me off, you have continued to take little shots at me over the time that I have been here. Pretty much anytime you get a chance. None of those shots have anything to do with facts(of course why would we want to let those little things get in the way when insulting someone is so much more fun) When someone makes statements that are meant to insult me and those statements are based on ignorance and bias, I am going to say something...maybe I'm just too sensitive. I can assure you this, if you continue it, I will continue to bring your ignorance to light because I do take it personally.

It's not personal, I promise. I just don't consider chiropractic legit. Just my opinion. I'm as entitled to my opinion as much as you are, because neither of us are medical doctors. I've acknowledged that chiros can sometimes give folks some temporary relief from pain. If left at that, fine. Beyond that is just wishful thinking and creative marketing IMO. My original purpose for weighing in on this was I don't want folks to blow off childhood vaccinations because some crackpots on the innerweb say they're dangerous. And look, if you choose to use these fora as a platform from which to extol the virtues of the spinal equivalent of knuckle-cracking as the key to good health, you gotta be willing to take some flak.

[Sooner_Bob]

I wonder how all of those folks who's lives were saved because of some of the previous mandatory vaccinations would feel about this.

[Sooner_Bob]

You're kidding me? Dasani isn't particularly my bottled water of choice, but if it's been found to contain that then the rest of them probably do as well.

Good grief! The last thing I want to think about when I'm guzzeling water is small pieces of s*** floating around in it.

:(


Um, pretty much all water has some level of fecal coliform in it. It's when it reaches above the EPA allowed limit that there's a problem and you'll find out about it from your community water system.

[yermom]

from what I've read over 90% of cervical cancer is caused by HPV. In my book that means if you never get HPV you won't get cervical cancer.

If you are immunized from getting HPV you have also immunized yourself from getting cervical cancer.

In other words yes, it is an STD vaccine and also a cancer vaccine.

i just don't think it's scientifically/medically honest to say that, even though it's mostly true

[Scott D]

and as I said before, it is your OPINION. One that I completely disagree with. My OPINION is that anyone "who is engaged in the delivery of health care services" should encourage people to research the FACTS, and decide what the best route is for them. Giving them the other side of the argument is not irresponsible as long as they are giving them true info and not basing that info on any sort of agenda...like maybe ummmm making billions of dollars on your product. As I stated before, you continue to make statements in this thread that are not completely true or not true at all. I call you on them and instead of telling me why I am wrong, or *gasp* actually acknowledging that there may be something to it, you resort to insults. Now, I show you a few facts that dispute your side of things and you decide to take your ball and go home.

Now personally, I would never tell someone not to vaccinate their children but I would certainly encourage them to look at the info so that they can make an educated decision. People do decide not to vaccinate for several reasons but to call them ignorant, gullible, or whatever, is just completely incorrect. The highest percentage of people that CHOOSE not to are upper income, college educated folks. I can assure you the majority of them have done their homework before making the decision.

Look, you **** me off, you have continued to take little shots at me over the time that I have been here. Pretty much anytime you get a chance. None of those shots have anything to do with facts(of course why would we want to let those little things get in the way when insulting someone is so much more fun) When someone makes statements that are meant to insult me and those statements are based on ignorance and bias, I am going to say something...maybe I'm just too sensitive. I can assure you this, if you continue it, I will continue to bring your ignorance to light because I do take it personally.

I'm cool as long as I can continue to take pot shots at your gay penile extension for a car :)

[Rook65]

Homey's opinions have generally proven to be sound and well-stated.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Just because these girls are going to be vaccinated for a potential STD doesn't mean they will think they have permission to engage in risky behavior.

I started taking a low grade version of the Pill in 8th grade for female problems. My mom made it clear that just because I was taking them it didn't mean they would keep me from getting pregnant.

There will still be kids doing it, whether they take this shot or not.

[OUDoc]

As far as vaccines causing or not causing autism, tell the parent who starts with a perfectly "normal" child, singing and interacting until 3 days after the shots are given that they are "gullible" for suspecting that there may be a connection!:rolleyes: Do I believe that it is the cause in all cases, absolutely not, but there is too much "coincidence" to just blow it off.

They are "gullible" for suspecting that there may be a connection. NO credible scientific evidence exists between Autism and vaccinations. None. And, as you know, my son has Autism. His twin brother does not. Same vaccinations, same vials, same lot numbers, same time during their development. I refuse to believe there is any connection until there is actual sceintific proof.

[achiro]

They are "gullible" for suspecting that there may be a connection. NO credible scientific evidence exists between Autism and vaccinations. None. And, as you know, my son has Autism. His twin brother does not. Same vaccinations, same vials, same lot numbers, same time during their development. I refuse to believe there is any connection until there is actual sceintific proof.
Wait a minute. So "gullible" is now what we call someone that SUSPECTS something? Isn't that pretty much how things are figured out? The "actual scientific proof" of anything starts with a thought or an idea. The big problem that you have is HOW do you actually prove something like that? Even if you did have a ton of money to work with, provig a cause would still be tough. I didn't get into it a lot of it here but again, one of the very common denominators is the age of onset with many kids. It correlates to that 18 month or so age when some vaccinations are given. Although there a ton of things going on at that age and it could be nothing more than coincidence, to just blow it off completely seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

Now, I find it very interesting about your sons. Are they identical twins? If so then they are exactly the same no? So it seems like there would almost have to be some kind of environmental factor involved since only one is autistic? Again, just thinking out loud but very interested.

PS, my nephew is autistic as well. I can remember less than a week before his vaccinations, sitting and singing with him. He was very interactive and even knew most of the words. He had a negative reaction to his vaccines, nothing severe though. Within 2 days he stopped talking, stopped looking people in the eye, even became non responsive to loud noises. You can call me gullible all you want, I still think there is something environmental(probably a large complicated combination of things) going on. Are vaccinations part of that? I on't know but I definitely don't think it should just be ignored.

[FaninAma]

The now infamous study by Wakefield et al. that implicated MMR as a cause of autism has been totally discredited. 10 of the 13 original authors have retracted their support of the conclusions of the article and it has been revealed that Wakefield received a large grant form trial attorneys to "help" his research.

Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine

I know it is wikipedia but all of the information I read in the article is accurate to the best of my knowledge. I am not a ranting and raving pro-vaccination pediatrician. I have(what I think is) a healthy distrust of pharmaceutical companies and I never pressure parents to have their children vaccinated. I discuss the pros and cons and try to address all of their concerns. I allow them to make the decision and to date I have about 100% vaccination rate in my practice.

[achiro]

The now infamous study by Wakefield et al. that implicated MMR as a cause of autism has been totally discredited. 10 of the 13 original authors have retracted their support of the conclusions of the article

Yeah, that wakefield thing was a cluster for sure. As I recall, the ten that retracted also said in their retraction that there wasn't a large enough sample group to conclude that there was a tie between the mmr and autism but that the possibility of a link was raised? Enough to investigate it further.

The big problem was tha it was skewed heavily in favor of the mmr causes autism side because many of the subject of the study were sent to Wakefield by the attorneys. That throws off the percentages highly for sure but doesn't eliminate the fact that the afflicted kids started having problems just shortly after the mmr vaccine.

Like I said, I just think it needs to be looked at further. The biggest problem is finding an unbias sourse that has the resources to do the studies.

[FaninAma]

Yeah, that wakefield thing was a cluster for sure. As I recall, the ten that retracted also said in their retraction that there wasn't a large enough sample group to conclude that there was a tie between the mmr and autism but that the possibility of a link was raised? Enough to investigate it further.

The big problem was tha it was skewed heavily in favor of the mmr causes autism side because many of the subject of the study were sent to Wakefield by the attorneys. That throws off the percentages highly for sure but doesn't eliminate the fact that the afflicted kids started having problems just shortly after the mmr vaccine.

Like I said, I just think it needs to be looked at further. The biggest problem is finding an unbias sourse that has the resources to do the studies.

Achiro, I have found it to be counterproductive to force parents to do anything with their children they don't feel comfortable with. Medicine is not a perfect science and physicians are far from perfect. I actually enjoy talking to parents who want more information but are objective enough to keep an open mind about treatment options.

We(physicians) don't have all the answers. I think that part of the problem with malpractice suits is that there are too many physicians who act like they do have all of the answers and detest being questioned. I have taken many families into my practice who were kicked out of other practices because they wouldn't get their kids immunized simply because the doctor said so.

Conversley, I am distrustful of any groups that would out-of-hand try to convince parents not to get their kids immunized. I have found this tends to be a trait of older chiropractors not the more recently trained DC's. I have actually referred several of my patients to DC's(gasp) to help with chronic musculoskeletal problems. I use PT alot, too.

[OUDoc]

Wait a minute. So "gullible" is now what we call someone that SUSPECTS something?
Okay, I'm at work and didn't read your whole response, but before this gets out of hand, I cut and pasted that sentence directly from your post, just to make a statement. "Gullible" was your word, I just re-used it.


Are they identical twins?
No, so there are other factors in play.

[achiro]

Achiro, I have found it to be counterproductive to force parents to do anything with their children they don't feel comfortable with. Medicine is not a perfect science and physicians are far from perfect. I actually enjoy talking to parents who want more information but are objective enough to keep an open mind about treatment options.

We(physicians) don't have all the answers. I think that part of the problem with malpractice suits is that there are too many physicians who act like they do have all of the answers and detest being questioned. I have taken many families into my practice who were kicked out of other practices because they wouldn't get their kids immunized simply because the doctor said so.

Conversley, I am distrustful of any groups that would out-of-hand try to convince parents not to get their kids immunized. I have found this tends to be a trait of older chiropractors not the more recently trained DC's. I have actually referred several of my patients to DC's(gasp) to help with chronic musculoskeletal problems. I use PT alot, too.
Sounds we are on the same page, maybe not the same line on the same page but the same page none the less.:D

I've actually referred a few of my patients to MD's (gasp) as well.:texan:

[OklahomaRed]

I think the issue with the HPV vaccine is the fact that you can not catch this virus just standing around the water cooler. Measles, mumps, whooping cough, varicella, etc. can be contracted without someone not making an active decision. On the other hand, I guess your daughter might marry someone who had pre-marital sex, thus the potential need to vaccinate. This is why it should be the parents decision to vaccinate against HPV or not, or until the girl is 16 and old enough to make the decision herself. Of course, my wife teaches 6th grade and they have had a 6th grader end up pregnant. Some parents are not as informed as others. Perhaps, the vaccination with the opt out clause might work if everyone was informed adequately.

[Hamhock]

i think cavities are heavily influenced by genetics.

my wife had zero cavities until she became pregnant. dentist said that was common.

on the vaccine, thingy. if you don't want it, don't get it. you don't have to put your kid in public school.

[achiro]

i think cavities are heavily influenced by genetics.

my wife had zero cavities until she became pregnant. dentist said that was common.

on the vaccine, thingy. if you don't want it, don't get it. you don't have to put your kid in public school.
You don't have to get "it" to go to public school in OK either.

[Okla-homey]

There's one other thing we need to keep in mind. This may sound like I've gone off the deep end, but bear with me and read the whole thing. If, just if, a parent buys in to the whole "vaccinations are the debbil" stuff, I would offer the following food for thought. Those children would be at even greater risk in the event of a national emergency. The US gives its uniformed personnel who are deployed overseas a bunch of shots. That's done because those folks may be exposed to some nasty stuff and being immunized against typhoid beats the livin' crap out of contracting it.

That said, all these "domestic" diseases we commonly immunize or vaccinate our kids against shouldn't be life threatening under normal circumstances here in the US, even if our kids were to come down with them.

Unless something "bad" happens. Now look, I'm not saying that our society is doomed to break down the next time we suffer a major terrorist attack, but I do not for a second think it's a matter of if we are attacked again, I think it's inevitable that we will be attacked again.

Now, if that attack involves something really nasty like a nuke, you can bet things are going to go to crap pretty quick before we reattain normalcy. During that interval when things are all jacked-up, I for one want all our kiddoes to have their shots all up to date to forestall preventable casualties from childhood diseases like measles, mumps, polio, whooping cough, etc.

That's also a darn good reason for seeing the dentist regularly, having a couple extra pair of eyeglasses around, and enough of your essential prescription meds to get you by for a couple months if the drugstore is closed that long.

Finally, we should all try to keep ourselves as healthy as possible, because, when the fecal material hits the rotary ventilation, grown-ups who are in decent shape are more likely to be able to help their families come through it okay.

Again, I don't think we're due for WWIII and one of those apocolyptic nuclear cataclysm dealios, but a small nuke popped in NY harbor could easily turn this nation on its head for at least several months. I'm quite sure the jihaadis understand that too.

[Hamhock]

There's one other thing we need to keep in mind. This may sound like I've gone off the deep end, but bear with me and read the whole thing. If, just if, a parent buys in to the whole "vaccinations are the debbil" stuff, I would offer the following food for thought. Those children would be at even greater risk in the event of a national emergency. The US gives its uniformed personnel who are deployed overseas a bunch of shots. That's done because those folks may be exposed to some nasty stuff and being immunized against typhoid beats the livin' crap out of contracting it.

That said, all these "domestic" diseases we commonly immunize or vaccinate our kids against shouldn't be life threatening under normal circumstances here in the US, even if our kids were to come down with them.

Unless something "bad" happens. Now look, I'm not saying that our society is doomed to break down the next time we suffer a major terrorist attack, but I do not for a second think it's a matter of if we are attacked again, I think it's inevitable that we will be attacked again.

Now, if that attack involves something really nasty like a nuke, you can bet things are going to go to crap pretty quick before we reattain normalcy. During that interval when things are all jacked-up, I for one want all our kiddoes to have their shots all up to date to forestall preventable casualties from childhood diseases like measles, mumps, polio, whooping cough, etc.

That's also a darn good reason for seeing the dentist regularly, having a couple extra pair of eyeglasses around, and enough of your essential prescription meds to get you by for a couple months if the drugstore is closed that long.

Finally, we should all try to keep ourselves as healthy as possible, because, when the fecal material hits the rotary ventilation, grown-ups who are in decent shape are more likely to be able to help their families come through it okay.

Again, I don't think we're due for WWIII and one of those apocolyptic nuclear cataclysm dealios, but a small nuke popped in NY harbor could easily turn this nation on its head for at least several months. I'm quite sure the jihaadis understand that too.

you have MRE's in your house right now. don't you? admit it. ;)

[Penguin]

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/penguincult/_images/churchsign.jpg

[achiro]

There's one other thing we need to keep in mind. This may sound like I've gone off the deep end, but bear with me and read the whole thing. If, just if, a parent buys in to the whole "vaccinations are the debbil" stuff, I would offer the following food for thought. Those children would be at even greater risk in the event of a national emergency. The US gives its uniformed personnel who are deployed overseas a bunch of shots. That's done because those folks may be exposed to some nasty stuff and being immunized against typhoid beats the livin' crap out of contracting it.

That said, all these "domestic" diseases we commonly immunize or vaccinate our kids against shouldn't be life threatening under normal circumstances here in the US, even if our kids were to come down with them.

Unless something "bad" happens. Now look, I'm not saying that our society is doomed to break down the next time we suffer a major terrorist attack, but I do not for a second think it's a matter of if we are attacked again, I think it's inevitable that we will be attacked again.

Now, if that attack involves something really nasty like a nuke, you can bet things are going to go to crap pretty quick before we reattain normalcy. During that interval when things are all jacked-up, I for one want all our kiddoes to have their shots all up to date to forestall preventable casualties from childhood diseases like measles, mumps, polio, whooping cough, etc.

That's also a darn good reason for seeing the dentist regularly, having a couple extra pair of eyeglasses around, and enough of your essential prescription meds to get you by for a couple months if the drugstore is closed that long.

Finally, we should all try to keep ourselves as healthy as possible, because, when the fecal material hits the rotary ventilation, grown-ups who are in decent shape are more likely to be able to help their families come through it okay.

Again, I don't think we're due for WWIII and one of those apocolyptic nuclear cataclysm dealios, but a small nuke popped in NY harbor could easily turn this nation on its head for at least several months. I'm quite sure the jihaadis understand that too.
Homey?
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/blast_from_the_past/christopher_walken/walken.jpg

:D :D :D

[SleestakSooner]

Do you think those opposed to these STD vaccinations would have such a problem if they wanted to vaccinate young boys instead of the girls?

I have known at least four women in my life that had this specific type of cancer. Half of them had to have their cervixes removed at a rather early age. The other two may very well suffer the same fate. I am sure I don't need to remind any of you of the devastating effects this disease can have on the physiology of an otherwise healthy woman.

To me it just seems foolish to completely discount this vaccine if it proves to work without injurious side effects.

That being said, I also do not want the governent mandating these things, especially when they are cleary giving in to the drug makers lobbying efforts. This sort of stuff always makes me wonder how much the law makers are profiting.

The proper solution would be to investigate the drug further, using volunteers to test for side effects. If it is proven safe for the vast majority, then and only then should people be able to choose to have their children vaccinated after weighing the options available. I also believe in this case most would want the vaccine and it would become the norm w/o the government coersion.

just my 2 cents.

[Penguin]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4528909.html

"Providing the HPV vaccine doesn't promote sexual promiscuity any more than providing the Hepatitis B vaccine promotes drug use," the governor said. "If the medical community developed a vaccine for lung cancer, would the same critics oppose it claiming it would encourage smoking?"



Good point. Lung cancer kills smokers dead.

[Okla-homey]

you have MRE's in your house right now. don't you? admit it. ;)

Just one case. 30 meals. I figure I could supplement that with the fact I've got a Mormon neighbor. Devout Mormons are required keep a year's supply of food on hand for their entire family. I know I could take him if I had too, he has no guns. So we're all set. ;)

Anyhoo, those MREs were left over from when we lived in hurricane country. We bought them at the commissary on base in Alabama. Be a grasshopper if you want. I prefer being an ant. AND GET YOUR SHOTS PEOPLE, especially tetanus! :D

[rd280z]

Wait a few years down the road and see how many more pregnancies, STD's, etc occur because of this.

[royalfan5]

Wait a few years down the road and see how many more pregnancies, STD's, etc occur because of this.
Because fear of HPV is the only thing holding back the ****ing now:rolleyes:

[Vaevictis]

Wait a few years down the road and see how many more pregnancies, STD's, etc occur because of this.

Considering that kids generally don't know **** about HPV, I don't see how this could possibly encourage them to have unprotected sex.

Seriously, how many of you had ever heard of HPV before the shot became available? Did a lack of an HPV vaccine have a hand in your not having pre-marital sex?

If fear of HIV, Herpes, Warts, Syphillis, Ghonnorhea, pregnancy, etc doesn't stop you, fear of HPV sure as hell won't.

[Hamhock]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4528909.html

"Providing the HPV vaccine doesn't promote sexual promiscuity any more than providing the Hepatitis B vaccine promotes drug use," the governor said. "If the medical community developed a vaccine for lung cancer, would the same critics oppose it claiming it would encourage smoking?"



Good point. Lung cancer kills smokers dead.


iff'n there was a vaccine for the lung cancer caused by smoking (but not emphysema, throat cancer, etc.) do you think more people would smoke?

[Ike]

Wait a few years down the road and see how many more pregnancies, STD's, etc occur because of this.
I predict that each of those numbers will be zero.

[yermom]

Wait a few years down the road and see how many more pregnancies, STD's, etc occur because of this.

i'm going to give this post the benefit of the doubt and guess that you are saying you'll believe that it causes an increase when you see it?

[yermom]

Considering that kids generally don't know **** about HPV, I don't see how this could possibly encourage them to have unprotected sex.

Seriously, how many of you had ever heard of HPV before the shot became available? Did a lack of an HPV vaccine have a hand in your not having pre-marital sex?

If fear of HIV, Herpes, Warts, Syphillis, Ghonnorhea, pregnancy, etc doesn't stop you, fear of HPV sure as hell won't.

i did... AKA "Genital Warts"

where were you in health class? ;)

AIDS and pregnancy are far more likely to be an issue, but HPV and Herpes are both pretty ugly as well since there is no cure.

but, yeah, if you think this vaccine is a license to go barebacking with all the other kids in school, you are an idiot, but that probably has more to do with the abstinence version of Sex Ed

[Hamhock]

we should make a law that the teenage girls have to fill out a survey before they do the deed.

that would certainly help with the data collection.

[yermom]

Merck was taking too much heat for trying to get state legislators to pimp their stuff...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/21/business/21merck.html?ex=1329714000&en=a1e44a0345d69131&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

why isn't this being suggested for males?

[BajaOklahoma]

And some parents in the Dallas area are suing the State over the vaccine.
There is already a longstanding law permitting parents to decline immunizations - and they made it even easier several years ago.
Part of the lawsuit is based on the money the State will spend on this through the county health departments.
I can't wait to find out they don't have kids in the age group affected by this.

Boys don't get cervical cancer, which is the most "socially acceptable" reason to push for the vaccine.

[Okla-homey]

Got an appointment for our daughter when she comes home from school for the summer. It's about $300 and change but it looks like our insurance (Tricare) will cover it. Three shots, each about six weeks apart.


Kinda amazing really. A series of three shots which actually prevent a form of cancer which kills millions of women worldwide is available and people somehow have a problem with that. :eek:

[Okla-homey]

Merck was taking too much heat for trying to get state legislators to pimp their stuff...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/21/business/21merck.html?ex=1329714000&en=a1e44a0345d69131&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

why isn't this being suggested for males?

Because males don't have cervixes.

[yermom]

it's not a Cervical Cancer vaccine, it's an HPV vaccine

where do you think girls usually get HPV from? ;)

[Okla-homey]

it's not a Cervical Cancer vaccine, it's an HPV vaccine

where do you think girls usually get HPV from? ;)

a form of poisoning from penii

[SoonerGirl06]

Kinda amazing really. A series of three shots which actually prevent a form of cancer which kills millions of women worldwide is available and people somehow have a problem with that. :eek:

I think what most people have a problem with is that the governor is mandating the vaccination... taking the decision completely out of the hands of the parents.

I question Perry's real motive behind the mandate... from my understanding he has close ties with Merck and by him mandating the vaccine someone somewhere will be making a lot of money off of it.

[Okla-homey]

I think what most people have a problem with is that the governor is mandating the vaccination... taking the decision completely out of the hands of the parents.

I question Perry's real motive behind the mandate... from my understanding he has close ties with Merck and by him mandating the vaccine someone somewhere will be making a lot of money off of it.

I understand and agree there are serious questions about the gov's motives, but in all seriousness, there are quite literally billions of girls and young women around the world who could benefit from this vaccination. They'll never get it because its too expensive or simply not made available to them. Frankly, sometimes, we shouldn't "look a gift horse in the mouth." So to speak.

Further, I am intellectually incapable of distinguishing this from mandatory vaccinations as a precondition of school enrollment. And yes, I undertstand irresponsible parents can "opt out" of mandatory school vaccinations, but whether the threat is polio or cervical cancer, either way, the state is trying to help prevent these scourges and I think that's pretty noble.

[SoonerGirl06]

I understand and agree there are serious questions about the gov's motives, but in all seriousness, there are quite literally billions of girls and young women around the world who could benefit from this vaccination. They'll never get it because its too expensive or simply not made available to them. Frankly, sometimes, we shouldn't "look a gift horse in the mouth." So to speak.

I agree with what you're saying. And while I'm not against the vaccination, I would want to know the long term effects of the vaccination vs benefits before it was administered. I'm not sure that there's been a long enough study to determine that yet.


Further, I am intellectually incapable of distinguishing this from mandatory vaccinations as a precondition of school enrollment. And yes, I undertstand irresponsible parents can "opt out" of mandatory school vaccinations, but whether the threat is polio or cervical cancer, either way, the state is trying to help prevent these scourges and I think that's pretty noble.

It is noble if the intentions are for the right reasons. While I'm sure Perry is concerned about the well being of young girls and women, I seriously doubt they're the main reasons for his mandating this. His pockets are getting lined I'm sure... the "Good Ol' Boy" system rules down here... and Perry is definitely a part of it.

Just out of curiousity... would you consider a parent irresponsible if they chose not to let their 6th grade daughter receive the vaccination until she reached the age that she was going to become sexually active?

[Frozen Sooner]

Why are you assuming that a 6th grader is necessarily not sexually active? It's not common, but I assure you that there are 6th graders out there who are doing the hokey-pokey, they're shaking it all about, and they definitely know what it's all about.

[SoonerGirl06]

Why are you assuming that a 6th grader is necessarily not sexually active? It's not common, but I assure you that there are 6th graders out there who are doing the hokey-pokey, they're shaking it all about, and they definitely know what it's all about.

I'm not assuming that 6th graders aren't doing the Hokey Pokey. Believe me... I'm not that naive. I've had a 10 year old come into the office 8 months pregnant before...

I was just curious what Okla-homey's opinion was if a parent chose to delay the vaccination until their daughter was older... would he consider them irresponsible if they did?

[soonerbrat]

I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but yes, there are several inoculations/immunizations that have been medically proven that they are not needed.


which ones?

[Frozen Sooner]

I think that's going to be the crux of Homey's argument, though. A parent who assumes that they know everything about their child's life and that their child would tell them everything about their sex life in particular is being pretty irresponsible.

Now, I'm not saying that every child actually DOES hide all the details of their sex life or any of the details of their sex life from their parent-but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of parents don't know when their daughter loses her virginity.

Taking that argument further and adding a horrifying twist:

Suppose your daughter is walking home from school one day. Now she's the hypothetical perfect daughter. She'd never even think of kissing a boy with her mouth open until her wedding day, much less open her legs.

Some sick twisted son of a bitch who happens to be randy for a 12 year old that day snatches her off the street and rapes her.

That sick twisted son of a bitch is a carrier of HPV. He infects your daughter with HPV. So on top of the horrible emotional scars your daughter is going to carry for life, she's carrying a virus which could very likely cause cervical cancer.

Now that's a really really extreme example, obviously. It's pretty unlikely, in fact. However, it's in the realm of possibility, right?

Now if a parent is declining to have their child vaccinated because they have honest doubts about either the efficacy of the vaccine or potential side-effects of the vaccine that are based on good science I'm all for them refusing. That's a responsible and well-reasoned objection. Saying that it'll encourage their daughter to have sex isn't.

[Frozen Sooner]

which ones?

Well I've never had smallpox, so obviously that one wasn't necessary.

[SoonerGirl06]

Now if a parent is declining to have their child vaccinated because they have honest doubts about either the efficacy of the vaccine or potential side-effects of the vaccine that are based on good science I'm all for them refusing. That's a responsible and well-reasoned objection. Saying that it'll encourage their daughter to have sex isn't.

I agree. Thanks for sharing your opinion/thoughts on the matter.

[yermom]

I think that's going to be the crux of Homey's argument, though. A parent who assumes that they know everything about their child's life and that their child would tell them everything about their sex life in particular is being pretty irresponsible.

Now, I'm not saying that every child actually DOES hide all the details of their sex life or any of the details of their sex life from their parent-but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of parents don't know when their daughter loses her virginity.

Taking that argument further and adding a horrifying twist:

Suppose your daughter is walking home from school one day. Now she's the hypothetical perfect daughter. She'd never even think of kissing a boy with her mouth open until her wedding day, much less open her legs.

Some sick twisted son of a bitch who happens to be randy for a 12 year old that day snatches her off the street and rapes her.

That sick twisted son of a bitch is a carrier of HPV. He infects your daughter with HPV. So on top of the horrible emotional scars your daughter is going to carry for life, she's carrying a virus which could very likely cause cervical cancer.

Now that's a really really extreme example, obviously. It's pretty unlikely, in fact. However, it's in the realm of possibility, right?

Now if a parent is declining to have their child vaccinated because they have honest doubts about either the efficacy of the vaccine or potential side-effects of the vaccine that are based on good science I'm all for them refusing. That's a responsible and well-reasoned objection. Saying that it'll encourage their daughter to have sex isn't.

just think if that sick twisted bastard had been immunized when he was in elementary school ;)

it seems odd to be mandating this vaccine so soon, i mean it's still almost $400 dollars and requires 3 steps 6 weeks apart

was the Texas plan about making parents or taxpayers pay that?

[picasso]

didn't read all of this thread but you guys do realize that virus runs pretty high in the Hispanic community?

[Okla-homey]

I'm not assuming that 6th graders aren't doing the Hokey Pokey. Believe me... I'm not that naive. I've had a 10 year old come into the office 8 months pregnant before...

I was just curious what Okla-homey's opinion was if a parent chose to delay the vaccination until their daughter was older... would he consider them irresponsible if they did?

Here's the thing, this vaccination is useless, as in totally, if not administered BEFORE the HPV virus exposure. My nurse wife tells me there are literally hundreds of strains of the virus, but fortunately, this vaccine shotguns most of them, especially the particulalry nasty ones which have been conclusively linked to cervical cancer.

Therefore, I think delaying the vaccine until mom and dad figure their little Missy is likely to be mattress dancin' is kinda silly...especially given kids nowadays start doing stuff waaaaaaaay earlier than even the people who are in their thirties now did. And that is not to mention the fact sexual assaults are quite common, particularly among the poor who, as a class, are statistically the most vulnerable to assault/molestation by someone in their neighborhood. As an aside, perhaps that's precisely why the gov wants this available to all TX kids, regardless of their parents' ability to pay.

Therefore, IMHO, a responsible parent should probably ensure they get their daughters the shot the approximate time the boobies sprout. That would be abbreviated as ATBS.;)

[Widescreen]

Therefore, IMHO, a responsible parent should probably ensure they get their daughters the shot the approximate time the boobies sprout. That would be abbreviated as ATBS.;)
I guess my wife and I are irresponsible parents. Good to know.

[Scott D]

I guess my wife and I are irresponsible parents. Good to know.

oh you already knew you were irresponsible in general ;)

[Widescreen]

Well I thought I had one good thing going for me at least. :(

[KC//CRIMSON]

Texas lawmakers block cervical cancer shots.

Bill rejects Gov. Rick Perry's order to require controversial vaccine.

AUSTIN, Texas - Texas lawmakers rejected Gov. Rick Perry’s anti-cancer vaccine order Wednesday, sending him a bill that blocks state officials from requiring the shots for at least four years.

Perry has said he is disappointed but has not indicated whether he will veto the bill. He has 10 days to sign or veto it, or the proposal will become law without his signature.

Lawmakers can override a veto with a two-thirds vote of both chambers. The legislation passed by well over that margin in both chambers.

Republican Rep. Dennis Bonnen, the bill’s House sponsor, said he believes it is fair and reasonable.

“I think the governor should see this as the Legislature making a very clear and respectful statement, and I hope he’ll accept our wishes,” Bonnen said.

The vaccine protects girls and women against strains of the sexually transmitted virus that cause most cases of cervical cancer and genital warts.

Delayed for four years
Perry was on his way to the Texas-Mexico border, where tornadoes killed several people overnight. His spokeswoman, Krista Moody, said his position on the vaccine law has not changed since the day he issued the order.

“The governor looks forward to a day when cervical cancer is eradicated and Texas women no longer have to cope with the devastating effects of this disease,” she said, adding that the Legislature’s actions will “delay that day for another four years.”

Wednesday’s vote by the House to accept changes made by the Senate is one of the final steps in a fight that began in February, when Perry made national headlines with an executive order requiring the human papillomavirus vaccine for sixth-grade girls.

The Legislature was outraged that Perry acted without consulting them. Just days after the governor issued the order, prominent legislators promised to do whatever it took to overturn the order, saying the vaccine is too new to force on Texas families.

After an emotional, six-hour public hearing, the House approved a bill last month barring state officials from requiring the vaccine for school attendance. The Senate adopted the bill on Monday, after deciding to let the ban expire in four years so the vaccine’s risks and benefits can be re-evaluated.

Veto overrides are rare, primarily because most major bills are passed toward the end of the legislative session and the governor has 10 days to take action on them. The last one happened in 1979.

The governor’s order was supposed to have taken effect in September 2008.

The vaccine protects against four strains of the sexually transmitted HPV infection. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently approved the vaccine for girls and women ages 9 to 26.

About half of all men and women are infected with HPV at some point in their lives, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The agency recommends that girls get the vaccine when they are 11 or 12 so they will have immunity before they become sexually active.

Bills have been introduced in about 20 states to require the vaccine amid some safety concerns and protests from conservatives who say requiring it promotes promiscuity and erodes parents’ rights.