Austin political columnist Molly Ivins croaked

[Okla-homey]

One of the last unabashed "liberals." The old battle-axe gave hell to many an elephant. I expect there's mirthful exuberance in the White House tonight. She did write a lively column and could flat turn a phrase.:texan:

[SicEmBaylor]

She was entertaining to read. That's the best possible thing I can say about her.

[royalfan5]

while I rarely agreed with her, I was always entertained by her.

[Mongo]

"You can feed a bobcat chili, but he aint gonna crap diamonds."

Good skit on SNL about her

[TopDawg]

She was entertaining to read. That's the best possible thing I can say about her.

'Tis no wonder you're having trouble with women. ;)

[KaiserSooner]

Didn't she write those George Bush quips for Ann Richards' 1988 Democratic Convention speech?

Even if she didn't, the quips were classics, though more appropriate for the hollow-skulled son than the father.

[Frozen Sooner]

That's unfortunate. She could really write.

[Jerk]

Must have been that Haliburton cancer-causing machine. Somehow "Shrub's" fault, I bet.

[85Sooner]

Edited to save the feelings of some folks who never met her or had to deal with her or her people. If you did you wouldn't feel the same way. I have just as much right to feel the way I do as you do.

[Okla-homey]

While I was usually unsympathetic to her positions, I read her because in the marketplace of ideas, we need to hear both sides. Bottomline is my newspaper will be even more boring with her gone.

[TUSooner]

While I was usually unsympathetic to her positions, I read her because in the marketplace of ideas, we need to hear both sides. Bottomline is my newspaper will be even more boring with her gone.
Homey, that's blasphemy to many here who think the only liberal (as they define one ) is a dead one.
According to the them, "We don't need no stinkin 'market place of ideers' cuz we done already made up our mind once, and once is enough."
<end of snarky rant>

[TUSooner]

good riddens

It's ignorant, un-Christian, and basically subhuman to rejoice because someone with a different viewpoint has died.
Was Ivins a tyrant who slaughtered millions of innocents? Or was she a newspaper writer? Your kind - blind drunk on your own borrowed dogmas - give rational conservatives a bad name.
Shame and Negspek for you.

<end of second rant>

[SleestakSooner]

good riddens

Get a grip. :O

[Okla-homey]

It's ignorant, un-Christian, and basically subhuman to rejoice because someone with a different viewpoint has died.
Was Ivins a tyrant who slaughtered millions of innocents? Or was she a newspaper writer? Your kind - blind drunk on your own borrowed dogmas - give rational conservatives a bad name.
Shame and Negspek for you.

<end of second rant>

lighten-up Francis ;)

[85Sooner]

It's ignorant, un-Christian, and basically subhuman to rejoice because someone with a different viewpoint has died.
Was Ivins a tyrant who slaughtered millions of innocents? Or was she a newspaper writer? Your kind - blind drunk on your own borrowed dogmas - give rational conservatives a bad name.
Shame and Negspek for you.

<end of second rant>


Who are you? did you know her? Did you have to deal with her or her people? She used her poison pen to write lies upon lies about people (Not just W) for the sole purpose of trying to destroy them. I have no place for anyone like that. Think what you may but there are people who are evil and live that way without killing others.

[TUSooner]

Who are you? did you know her? Did you have to deal with her or her people? She used her poison pen to write lies upon lies about people (Not just W) for the sole purpose of trying to destroy them. I have no place for anyone like that. Think what you may but there are people who are evil and live that way without killing others.

Thanks for clarifying your position.
I was afraid I was misinterpreting you; but I wasn't.

[King Crimson]

Who are you? did you know her? Did you have to deal with her or her people? She used her poison pen to write lies upon lies about people (Not just W) for the sole purpose of trying to destroy them. I have no place for anyone like that. Think what you may but there are people who are evil and live that way without killing others.

so, now Ivins is evil.

that's absurd and quite morbid, too.

[C&CDean]

I've never heard of her, and really don't care one way or the other. However, I must say that one less flaming loudmouth liberal is never a bad thing. So sue me.

[King Crimson]

well, the opinion leader has spoken. now, the dogpile to agree with Dean can begin.....

[crawfish]

I wasn't crazy about her blatant partisanship, but she did write some amusing stuff.

[JohnnyMack]

well, the opinion leader has spoken. now, the dogpile to agree with Dean can begin.....

Dean can suck it.

:pop:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This thread is pretty much a role call for our resident lefties. Viva la Molly!

[C&CDean]

well, the opinion leader has spoken. now, the dogpile to agree with Dean can begin.....

Well only if they're smart. And good lookin'. And have a clue. And ain't gay.

[sooner_born_1960]

Well only if they're smart. And good lookin'. And have a clue. And ain't gay.
Is three out of four close enough?

[C&CDean]

Is three out of four close enough?

Sure thing, Liberace.

[85Sooner]

Thanks for clarifying your position.
I was afraid I was misinterpreting you; but I wasn't.


She wasn't interested in the "socall debate on ideas" She spewed venom using her position without her victims being allowed to respond. She was part of the Ann Richards crowd. I personally worked with several of them and I cannot state is strong enough terms how really psychologically sick some of them were.
In fact some ended up in mental institutions. That crowd was dangerous and there are others very similar to them wanting to run the country right now. I won't say who but my sig probably gives a clue.

[TopDawg]

I've never heard of her, and really don't care one way or the other. However, I must say that one less flaming loudmouth liberal is never a bad thing. So sue me.

Your momma would be disappointed.


My momma always said "son, if you ain't got nothin' nice to say then don't say nothin' at all."

But I'm glad you disobey momma. This place wouldn't be the same without you.

[TopDawg]

It's ignorant, un-Christian, and basically subhuman to rejoice because someone with a different viewpoint has died.

Heh. It's kinda funny how the response to this was basically "She started it!"

[picasso]

Didn't she write those George Bush quips for Ann Richards' 1988 Democratic Convention speech?

Even if she didn't, the quips were classics, though more appropriate for the hollow-skulled son than the father.
the hollow skulled son who graded better in college than John Kerry? that hollow skulled one? hey, he may sound and look like a dip**** but give him a little more credit.
Molly Ivins? I was never entertained by her. She had a bigger hard-on for Bush than the really bad guys.

[SoonerJack]

lighten-up Francis ;)

I don' want none of you 'homos' touchin' any of my stuff!

[picasso]

Homey, that's blasphemy to many here who think the only liberal (as they define one ) is a dead one.
According to the them, "We don't need no stinkin 'market place of ideers' cuz we done already made up our mind once, and once is enough."
<end of snarky rant>
that's true but not in her case. constructive criticism of any topic or person also occasionally gives a little credit when it's due. she was agenda and hate driven.
you guys talk about right wing hate talk, she was the very definition, only from the other side.

it's also nearly impossible to turn on the news or read any editorial without hearing a different side of the topic at hand.

[TopDawg]

that's true but not in her case. constructive criticism of any topic or person also occasionally gives a little credit when it's due.

You're assuming that there was a time when credit was due. ;)

[King Crimson]

that's true but not in her case. constructive criticism of any topic or person also occasionally gives a little credit when it's due. she was agenda and hate driven.
you guys talk about right wing hate talk, she was the very definition, only from the other side.

it's also nearly impossible to turn on the news or read any editorial without hearing a different side of the topic at hand.

but, very few people here are interested in constructive criticism. you are right to point out Ivins' partisanship. but, the same people on this board who place politics before her basic existence as a fellow American and human being (yeah, i know she's not a real American)....are likely the one's who defend Ann Coulter in terms of partisan agreement ("she's right about liberals!") but "hate on" Ivins out of some specious "principle" or commitment to healthy debate or something. i agree you can't have it both ways. and the road goes north and south.

i personally do not self-identify as a liberal and i almost never vote democrat...so i find it mind-killing to see complex issues that determine the fate of our nation and a lot of people's lives and life chances reduced to simple black-white cookie cutter political identities. i can see the appeal of them, making a difficult world simplistic, but it's intellectually lazy and usually the sign of someone who lacks the ability and tools to understand the society in which they live in terms other than the stereotypical ones they inherit second hand.

many of the people who talk about "accountability" for one's action as a political theory of action are precisely the ones who have made scapegoating THE political art of contemporary American life.

[FaninAma]

Molly Ivins was the worst type of journalist and a contributor to the rancorous discourse of issue in this country. She was a bomb thrower and a name caller and rarely promoted any intelligent insight into difficult issues.

She was an adolescent with a public forum and her columns were drivel.

If you find sophomoric name-calling and witicism as an adequate substitute for substantial discussion of pressing issues then I'm sure you'll miss the musings of Molly Ivins.

BTW, she wasn't even funny.

[JohnnyMack]

Molly Ivins was the worst type of journalist and a contributor to the rancorous discourse of issue in this country. She was a bomb thrower and a name caller and rarely promoted any intelligent insight into difficult issues.

She was an adolescent with a public forum and her columns were drivel.

If you find sophomoric name-calling and witicism as an adequate substitute for substantial discussion of pressing issues then I'm sure you'll miss the musings of Molly Ivins.

BTW, she wasn't even funny.

Why do you hate Ann Coulter?

[picasso]

I agree KC and I'm not rejoicing in her death. Cancer has been very real to me and some people I'm very close to in the last few years.

TD, you and Molly could give Dubya a little credit on the *** kicking economy we have right now. or is that Clinton's leftovers?;)

[picasso]

Why do you hate Ann Coulter?
I'd love to see Ann Coulter given a zipper for her mouth but she didn't have the audience that Ivins had.
syndicated columnists have mucho power. that is I guess if most people can read.

[King Crimson]

I agree KC and I'm not rejoicing in her death. Cancer has been very real to me and some people I'm very close to in the last few years.



i know pic. we're cool like always, i wasn't going after you....your post just gave me a chance to say something i wanted to say. I have a friend starting chemo on Monday, btw.

[SleestakSooner]

Rush Limbaugh is the worst type of journalist and a contributor to the rancorous discourse of issue in this country. He is a bomb thrower and a name caller and rarely promoted any intelligent insight into difficult issues.

He is an adolescent with a public forum and his columns are drivel.

If you find sophomoric name-calling and witicism as an adequate substitute for substantial discussion of pressing issues then I'm sure you'll like the musings of Rush Limbaugh.

BTW, he isn't even witty.

Fixed :rolleyes:

[picasso]

Fixed :rolleyes:
I'll agree he was with Clinton but he also exposed a few things we needed to know about their agenda (like taking over the nation's health care system).

I don't listen to him these days but does the fact that Limbaugh still has the #1 rated radio program hurt?

[FaninAma]

Why do you hate Ann Coulter?

I get the comparison. Ann has a poisonous pen and I agree that she doesn't promote civilized discussion of the issues. She's a pit bull in a skirt and certainly no William Buckley. But she's not a phony.

Molly Ivins was a phony who tried to be funny by sprinkling her poison with these little trite, over-used , home-spun country witicisms. I doubt Molly was country enough to tell the difference between a bull and a heifer.

I can handle other liberal writers/commentators who throw out a lot of red meat to the left who don't try to be funny or aren't phony. That group doesn't include Ivins.

[C&CDean]

but, very few people here are interested in constructive criticism. you are right to point out Ivins' partisanship. but, the same people on this board who place politics before her basic existence as a fellow American and human being (yeah, i know she's not a real American)....are likely the one's who defend Ann Coulter in terms of partisan agreement ("she's right about liberals!") but "hate on" Ivins out of some specious "principle" or commitment to healthy debate or something. i agree you can't have it both ways. and the road goes north and south.

i personally do not self-identify as a liberal and i almost never vote democrat...so i find it mind-killing to see complex issues that determine the fate of our nation and a lot of people's lives and life chances reduced to simple black-white cookie cutter political identities. i can see the appeal of them, making a difficult world simplistic, but it's intellectually lazy and usually the sign of someone who lacks the ability and tools to understand the society in which they live in terms other than the stereotypical ones they inherit second hand.

many of the people who talk about "accountability" for one's action as a political theory of action are precisely the ones who have made scapegoating THE political art of contemporary American life.

Is it OK in your world to hate all of the loudmouthed mouthpieces out there? Regardless of their political leanings?

And I always laugh when I see the words "intellectually lazy" when they apply to someone's "beliefs." It's a cop out.

There's plenty of folks out there (myself included) who have spent many, many years debating internally and externally the pros/cons of the different political partys' agendas. We've developed opinions and beliefs based on life experience, personal upbringing, and decades of thoughtful discussion and soul searching.

Then, we have young geniuses like yourself come along and attempt to lecture us on our moral convictions and belief systems. Our belief in a certain way of life or political party is tossed off as "close-minded fools who don't have the gray matter neccessary to engage in political intercourse with people as young and as smart as me. People incapable of actually seeing the other side's point of view." Know what I say to that? Blow me. I used to be a young, liberal fool myself who said the exact same things you're saying now. Then I grew up.

So, when I see another loudmouth liberal whose political leanings are a direct 180 from mine kicked the bucket please pardon me for not being all sad and not wanting to participate in your candlelight memorial service. I do not derive pleasure from anyone dying, but I also have been around long enough to pick and choose who I'm gonna mourn for. This bitch? Nope.

[Stoop Dawg]

Why do you hate Ann Coulter?

And everyone on this board?

[Stoop Dawg]

There's plenty of folks out there (myself included) who have spent many, many years debating internally and externally the pros/cons of the different political partys' agendas. We've developed opinions and beliefs based on life experience, personal upbringing, and decades of thoughtful discussion and soul searching.

But that was then and this is now. Now you just call things you don't agree with "gay" and move on.

[TUSooner]

***I do not derive pleasure from anyone dying, but I also have been around long enough to pick and choose who I'm gonna mourn for....
I'm gonna say that's substantially different from "good riddance." But only because I'm a Deanophile. ;)


If we're gonna happily and sincerely wish Suffering, Death & Hell on people because they loudly express opinions we don't like, we're all ****ed, and not in a great way.
When it becomes open season on obnxious, opinionated, narrow-minded ***holes, nobody around here is safe (and pass me the ammunition).

[Fugue]

I'm gonna say that's substantially different from "good riddance." But only because I'm a Deanophile. ;)


If we're gonna happily and sincerely wish Suffering, Death & Hell on people because they loudly express opinions we don't like, we're all ****ed, and not in a great way.
When it becomes open season on obnxious, opinionated, narrow-minded ***holes, nobody around here is safe (and pass me the ammunition).

like your feelings toward 85? ;) :texan:

:pop:

[King Crimson]

Is it OK in your world to hate all of the loudmouthed mouthpieces out there? Regardless of their political leanings?

it's OK. that's pretty much what i'm saying. but, the Coulter comparison yields many who like one loudmouth and accuse the other of extreme, divisive partisanship....picasso made this point, and i agreed with him.


And I always laugh when I see the words "intellectually lazy" when they apply to someone's "beliefs." It's a cop out.

given that you acknowledge that your beliefs have changed from snotty "liberal" guy like me to adult macho man in possession of the truth of your convictions, it seems you *do* think beliefs are subject to productive scrutiny. and making the distinction between belief and thinking, is the cop out.

and: are you going to deny that there are people living in this world that are not "intellectually lazy"?


There's plenty of folks out there (myself included) who have spent many, many years debating internally and externally the pros/cons of the different political partys' agendas. We've developed opinions and beliefs based on life experience, personal upbringing, and decades of thoughtful discussion and soul searching.

well, my point is the limitation of the two political party's agendas. so, at this point you are posting about yourself and not me. which you continue below....


Then, we have young geniuses like yourself come along and attempt to lecture us on our moral convictions and belief systems. Our belief in a certain way of life or political party is tossed off as "close-minded fools who don't have the gray matter neccessary to engage in political intercourse with people as young and as smart as me. People incapable of actually seeing the other side's point of view." Know what I say to that? Blow me. I used to be a young, liberal fool myself who said the exact same things you're saying now. Then I grew up.

your sarcasm and disdain are duly noted, rah rah rah. I'm well acquainted with your theory of life and political maturation. your life is not the model for everyone else on planet earth....no more than your criticism of mine. and i'm not a liberal.


So, when I see another loudmouth liberal whose political leanings are a direct 180 from mine kicked the bucket please pardon me for not being all sad and not wanting to participate in your candlelight memorial service. I do not derive pleasure from anyone dying, but I also have been around long enough to pick and choose who I'm gonna mourn for. This bitch? Nope.

you never heard of her in your first post, now she's a bitch. was there a lot of soul searching and internal debate that lead you to that conclusion?

[FaninAma]

And everyone on this board?

No hate involved. Just inpatience. And for clarification please refer to my signature.

[Stoop Dawg]

you never heard of her in your first post, now she's a bitch. was there a lot of soul searching and internal debate that lead you to that conclusion?

Ouch.

[Stoop Dawg]

No hate involved. Just inpatience. And for clarification please refer to my signature.

Sigs are off. Just to be clear, 'twas a joke implying that everyone on this board is a loudmouthed, blah, blah, blah ... including myself.

[OklahomaTuba]

Cancer is a terrible thing. I hate to see anyone lose that battle, or even go through it for that fact.

I am sure she will be missed as a person, but I doubt her fuzzy socialist head in the sand world view won't be. Except for the moonbat "progressive" who still believe in it that is.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Is it OK in your world to hate all of the loudmouthed mouthpieces out there? Regardless of their political leanings?

And I always laugh when I see the words "intellectually lazy" when they apply to someone's "beliefs." It's a cop out.

There's plenty of folks out there (myself included) who have spent many, many years debating internally and externally the pros/cons of the different political partys' agendas. We've developed opinions and beliefs based on life experience, personal upbringing, and decades of thoughtful discussion and soul searching.

Then, we have young geniuses like yourself come along and attempt to lecture us on our moral convictions and belief systems. Our belief in a certain way of life or political party is tossed off as "close-minded fools who don't have the gray matter neccessary to engage in political intercourse with people as young and as smart as me. People incapable of actually seeing the other side's point of view." Know what I say to that? Blow me. I used to be a young, liberal fool myself who said the exact same things you're saying now. Then I grew up.

So, when I see another loudmouth liberal whose political leanings are a direct 180 from mine kicked the bucket please pardon me for not being all sad and not wanting to participate in your candlelight memorial service. I do not derive pleasure from anyone dying, but I also have been around long enough to pick and choose who I'm gonna mourn for. This bitch? Nope.COULD THIS BE Dean's most profound and inspiring post of all times? IMHO, YES! Way to go, Dean!

[jk the sooner fan]

Molly Ivins was the worst type of journalist and a contributor to the rancorous discourse of issue in this country. She was a bomb thrower and a name caller and rarely promoted any intelligent insight into difficult issues.

She was an adolescent with a public forum and her columns were drivel.

If you find sophomoric name-calling and witicism as an adequate substitute for substantial discussion of pressing issues then I'm sure you'll miss the musings of Molly Ivins.

BTW, she wasn't even funny.

reading this from you makes me giggle a little

[FaninAma]

Sigs are off. Just to be clear, 'twas a joke implying that everyone on this board is a loudmouthed, blah, blah, blah ... including myself.

No sweat. Even if your comment was about me I accept the fact that I tend to have a grumpy, cynical view of other people's actions....especially those who are in the following groups: politicians, journalists, attorneys, entertainers(including spoiled athletes), people who snag on to whatever the latest fad is, shoppers at Walmart, UT alumni, religious pontificators, people motivated primarily by money(especially in th medical profession), insurance companies, union leaders, fortune 500 executives, people who refuse to learn from their mistakes(which includes a great many of the people who receive government handouts), smart-assed teenagers and anybody who is incapable of hiding their egos. Did I leave anybody out?

That's why my wife bought me a shirt that says "I'm just one big freakin' ray of sunshine".

[FaninAma]

reading this from you makes me giggle a little

Somehow I get the impression that you are quite the giggler....and that's OK.

[Jeopardude]

Wow, I just skipped to the last page. I didn't want to read everybody's heartfelt condolences. :D

My favorite Molly Ivins writing.



(State Rep. Chisum just readded homosexual sodomy to the Texas Penal Code) Chisum then shook hands with his ally, Talmadge Heflin of Houston, in celebration of this double triumph, and the Speaker had to send the Sergeant-at-arms over to reprimand them both.

Because under Chisum's own amendments, it's illegal for a pr**k to touch an a**hole in this state.

[C&CDean]

it's OK. that's pretty much what i'm saying. but, the Coulter comparison yields many who like one loudmouth and accuse the other of extreme, divisive partisanship....picasso made this point, and i agreed with him.



given that you acknowledge that your beliefs have changed from snotty "liberal" guy like me to adult macho man in possession of the truth of your convictions, it seems you *do* think beliefs are subject to productive scrutiny. and making the distinction between belief and thinking, is the cop out.

and: are you going to deny that there are people living in this world that are not "intellectually lazy"?



well, my point is the limitation of the two political party's agendas. so, at this point you are posting about yourself and not me. which you continue below....



your sarcasm and disdain are duly noted, rah rah rah. I'm well acquainted with your theory of life and political maturation. your life is not the model for everyone else on planet earth....no more than your criticism of mine. and i'm not a liberal.



you never heard of her in your first post, now she's a bitch. was there a lot of soul searching and internal debate that lead you to that conclusion?

1. I believe the first volley was fired by you.

2. You disagree with my theory of life and political maturation. Goody. So I guess one of us is wrong, huh?

3. Once real truth is discovered the search is over. It becomes time to hone the reality of that truth. To explore it deeper. Agreeing with a point of view that is contrary to one's learnings - being espoused by someone you find personally distasteful - would be......well, in a word, stupid.

4. I do not use the words "intellectually lazy." I just say "dumbass." It has a lot less syllables. And yes, the world is full of these folks.

5. If you're no liberal, then what are you? Besides, there's only about 5 issues that separate the average liberal from the average conservative. If you're pro-gun, pro-life, pro-capital punishment, pro-normal marriage, and pro capitalism then you're a conservative. Where do you stand on those issues? Wait, don't tell me, you're somewhere in the middle on all of them, right? In your mind that makes you a great thinker. In mine it makes you wishy-washy. (yes, that's sarcasm again, I just can't help it)

6. I've never heard of her until this thread. And what I've heard of her from people I trust and respect is she's a flaming liberal ****. I mean she was.

[SoonerBorn68]

I am deeply ashamed to know you and I care about something in common. (the Sooners) Get a grip. :O

Hee, hee. This thread is a hoot. Some woman dies & the political lines are drawn in the sand. I can only hope the resident libs on this board can be as respectful when someone from the "other side" dies.

Oh, and SS--the feeling's mutual.

:twinkies:

[SleestakSooner]

Is it OK in your world to hate all of the loudmouthed mouthpieces out there? Regardless of their political leanings?

And I always laugh when I see the words "intellectually lazy" when they apply to someone's "beliefs." It's a cop out.

There's plenty of folks out there (myself included) who have spent many, many years debating internally and externally the pros/cons of the different political partys' agendas. We've developed opinions and beliefs based on life experience, personal upbringing, and decades of thoughtful discussion and soul searching.

Then, we have young geniuses like yourself come along and attempt to lecture us on our moral convictions and belief systems. Our belief in a certain way of life or political party is tossed off as "close-minded fools who don't have the gray matter neccessary to engage in political intercourse with people as young and as smart as me. People incapable of actually seeing the other side's point of view." Know what I say to that? Blow me. I used to be a young, liberal fool myself who said the exact same things you're saying now. Then I grew up.

So, when I see another loudmouth liberal whose political leanings are a direct 180 from mine kicked the bucket please pardon me for not being all sad and not wanting to participate in your candlelight memorial service. I do not derive pleasure from anyone dying, but I also have been around long enough to pick and choose who I'm gonna mourn for. This bitch? Nope.

It's the mixed messages like this that bring down the morale of SF's posters and embolden the liberals!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Molly Ivins...I've never heard of her until this thread. And what I've heard of her from people I trust and respect is she's a flaming liberal ****. I mean she was.Poor Molly actually died of Toxic Brain Syndrome. I don't wish it for anyone.

[jk the sooner fan]

us conservatives are for the preservation of life unless it involves a liberal ;)

[SCOUT]

Wow, I just skipped to the last page. I didn't want to read everybody's heartfelt condolences. :D

My favorite Molly Ivins writing.

(State Rep. Chisum just readded homosexual sodomy to the Texas Penal Code) Chisum then shook hands with his ally, Talmadge Heflin of Houston, in celebration of this double triumph, and the Speaker had to send the Sergeant-at-arms over to reprimand them both.

Because under Chisum's own amendments, it's illegal for a pr**k to touch an a**hole in this state.

I don't think I have ever read Molly Ivins although I have heard of her. If the above quote is indicative, she does an amazing job of taking a political issue and turning it into personal insults.

[TUSooner]

***she does an amazing job of taking a political issue and turning it into personal insults.

Then she must have posted on here at some time. Maybe now the mods will reveal who she was.

[Frozen Sooner]

Hee, hee. This thread is a hoot. Some woman dies & the political lines are drawn in the sand. I can only hope the resident libs on this board can be as respectful when someone from the "other side" dies.

Oh, and SS--the feeling's mutual.

:twinkies:


You mean like Gerald Ford? 'Cause I don't recall any vitriol directed his way around here when he died.

[jk the sooner fan]

yeah gerald ford was certainly a lightening rod for conservatism......

[Frozen Sooner]

OK, how about Ronald Reagan?

[Stoop Dawg]

pro-capital punishment

I can only imagine your outrage at this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070201/ap_on_re_us/katrina_bridge_shooting

[King Crimson]

1. I believe the first volley was fired by you.

2. You disagree with my theory of life and political maturation. Goody. So I guess one of us is wrong, huh?

3. Once real truth is discovered the search is over. It becomes time to hone the reality of that truth. To explore it deeper. Agreeing with a point of view that is contrary to one's learnings - being espoused by someone you find personally distasteful - would be......well, in a word, stupid.

4. I do not use the words "intellectually lazy." I just say "dumbass." It has a lot less syllables. And yes, the world is full of these folks.

5. If you're no liberal, then what are you? Besides, there's only about 5 issues that separate the average liberal from the average conservative. If you're pro-gun, pro-life, pro-capital punishment, pro-normal marriage, and pro capitalism then you're a conservative. Where do you stand on those issues? Wait, don't tell me, you're somewhere in the middle on all of them, right? In your mind that makes you a great thinker. In mine it makes you wishy-washy. (yes, that's sarcasm again, I just can't help it)

6. I've never heard of her until this thread. And what I've heard of her from people I trust and respect is she's a flaming liberal ****. I mean she was.


1. I agreed with picasso that the duplicity of "hate" was evident on both sides. my volley, if there was one, is that there are a lot people who huddle over their keyboards waiting to kiss the ring. and are born sheep.

2. i did not say i disagree with it: i said i was familiar with it. and it has nothing to do with my life. i was neither a "liberal fool" when i was listening to the Velvet Underground and doing drugs...more than i am now. i do favor political argument over dismissive comment. a point i've tried to make over and over again. i guess i'm a commie.

3. that's your world Dean, not mine.

4. fancy book learnin is the devil.

5. i'm a commie, and i'm no wishy-washy centrist. so, **** you. as i stated before, and you've proved in your #5 response.....you prefer a simple world to trying to understand a complex one.....with all that soul searching and internal debate you claim to have done. the world is different now...as we've been told so many times after 9/11. Today's global and economic politics are not a bully job. if you can't see that, you are the "fool".

6. oh great. i guess you are right. her being dead is not a bad thing.

[jk the sooner fan]

OK, how about Ronald Reagan?

so we're comparing a two term president with a columnist

typically we tend to hold our presidens with a little more reverence (deservedly so or not) than most newspaper writers.....

kicking anybody when they're dead is not something i tend to engage in

[Stoop Dawg]

typically we tend to hold our presidens with a little more reverence (deservedly so or not) than most newspaper writers.....

Yeah, both Bill Clinton and GWB have been held in such high regard on this board. It's like people are afraid to criticize them and stuff. :rolleyes:

[C&CDean]

I can only imagine your outrage at this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070201/ap_on_re_us/katrina_bridge_shooting

Nah, not outraged at all. IMHO, those cops should probably get medals. Not for shooting those guys, but for just being a cop in that ****hole of a town.

[jk the sooner fan]

did you read where i said "dead"

there's a difference between kicking an alive president around for their mistakes

and not, when they've been out of office for over 20 years, and are dead past the of 90

[Stoop Dawg]

Nah, not outraged at all. IMHO, those cops should probably get medals. Not for shooting those guys, but for just being a cop in that ****hole of a town.

Either they were justified in killing those people (in which case they are innocent) or they were not (in which case they are guilty). Why on God's green earth would you not want the death penalty if they are guilty? Don't get all wishy-washy on me now.

[SoonerBorn68]

OK, how about Ronald Reagan?

Heh, I'm just waiting. There'll be a time where all the libs around here will dance around their fire, rejoice and chant "ding dong the witch is dead" when some conservative croaks. Then when somebody calls them on it for being disrepectful they'll hoot & holler how it's justified because said croak'd person was an evil conservative bastage who hated mankind--and kicked puppies.

Mark it down, it'll happen.

[C&CDean]

1. I agreed with picasso that the duplicity of "hate" was evident on both sides. my volley, if there was one, is that there are a lot people who huddle over their keyboards waiting to kiss the ring. and are born sheep.

2. i did not say i disagree with it: i said i was familiar with it. and it has nothing to do with my life. i was neither a "liberal fool" when i was listening to the Velvet Underground and doing drugs...more than i am now. i do favor political argument over dismissive comment. a point i've tried to make over and over again. i guess i'm a commie.

3. that's your world Dean, not mine.

4. fancy book learnin is the devil.

5. i'm a commie, and i'm no wishy-washy centrist. so, **** you. as i stated before, and you've proved in your #5 response.....you prefer a simple world to trying to understand a complex one.....with all that soul searching and internal debate you claim to have done. the world is different now...as we've been told so many times after 9/11. Today's global and economic politics are not a bully job. if you can't see that, you are the "fool".

6. oh great. i guess you are right. her being dead is not a bad thing.

Oh, so you're mad that a few people actually think what I have to say happens to mirror their own opinion so they're now sheep. Oh, wait, it's more than just a few. Usually when a lot of people agree on something, and you and a couple whackozoids don't, it's time to look in a mirror.

And you couldn't be further from the truth in terms of "understanding a complex one." I just choose to simplify things because when it all comes down to it, what matters? That's right, survival. It's really quite simple to survive. And I think people that complicate things that really are simple are just mental masturbators.

Fancy book learnin'? What degrees do you hold? I've got a couple myself, but I must admit I've learned much more from living my life than sitting a chair in a classroom.

And the world is different post 9/11. Especially people. They've become pussified, wimpy, cowtowing, politically correct little drones who think we oughta suck the terrorist's cocks rather than put a bullet in their brains. If ever there was a time that global politics needed to be a bully job it's now.

And a whole ****pot of people die every day. I went to a funeral a couple weeks ago. Some lady died who happens to be a loudmouth yainch. Forgive me for not gnashing my teeth.

[C&CDean]

Either they were justified in killing those people (in which case they are innocent) or they were not (in which case they are guilty). Why on God's green earth would you not want the death penalty if they are guilty? Don't get all wishy-washy on me now.

Wishy washy? Dude, cops got a **** deal. Part of their job is using a firearm. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes those mistake involve somebody dying. If you're a carpenter and you accidently kill a by-stander with a nail gun should you swing?

If the cops went out there with no other purpose than to commit pre-meditated murder then yes, hang them. If a bunch of **** is going down, there's criminals and thugs everywhere, and the shooting starts, not so much. Nothing wishy washy about that.

[sooner_born_1960]

I had never heard of her until this morning either. I decided to read some of her stuff, so I read the free excerpts from some of her books listed on Amazon. Thought provoking, insightful. I think not. It was mostly just a collection of liberal cliches.
That being said, I'll mourn her death as much as I mourn the death of other people I've never heard of. I'll celebrate it that much also.

[Stoop Dawg]

Wishy washy? Dude, cops got a **** deal. Part of their job is using a firearm. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes those mistake involve somebody dying. If you're a carpenter and you accidently kill a by-stander with a nail gun should you swing?

If the cops went out there with no other purpose than to commit pre-meditated murder then yes, hang them. If a bunch of **** is going down, there's criminals and thugs everywhere, and the shooting starts, not so much. Nothing wishy washy about that.

I think you need to go look up "first degree murder".

[GrapevineSooner]

kicking anybody when they're dead is not something i tend to engage in

Same here.

Unless it's somebody like Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, mass murderers, child molesters, etc.

Obviously, Ivins didn't come close to fitting that mold.

[King Crimson]

Oh, so you're mad that a few people actually think what I have to say happens to mirror their own opinion so they're now sheep. Oh, wait, it's more than just a few. Usually when a lot of people agree on something, and you and a couple whackozoids don't, it's time to look in a mirror.

And you couldn't be further from the truth in terms of "understanding a complex one." I just choose to simplify things because when it all comes down to it, what matters? That's right, survival. It's really quite simple to survive. And I think people that complicate things that really are simple are just mental masturbators.

Fancy book learnin'? What degrees do you hold? I've got a couple myself, but I must admit I've learned much more from living my life than sitting a chair in a classroom.

And the world is different post 9/11. Especially people. They've become pussified, wimpy, cowtowing, politically correct little drones who think we oughta suck the terrorist's cocks rather than put a bullet in their brains. If ever there was a time that global politics needed to be a bully job it's now.

And a whole ****pot of people die every day. I went to a funeral a couple weeks ago. Some lady died who happens to be a loudmouth yainch. Forgive me for not gnashing my teeth.


you just keep saying the same thing over and over (and i know your response).

it IS a complex world when it comes to global economics/politics. and that's what we are talking about, not chopping wood outside Lexington.

survival at a global level, is not a simple issue these days.

it hasn't been since the 1950's.

[TUSooner]

Same here.

Unless it's somebody like Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, mass murderers, child molesters, etc.

Obviously, Ivins didn't come close to fitting that mold.
That's what I meant.

[C&CDean]

you just keep saying the same thing over and over (and i know your response).

it IS a complex world when it comes to global economics/politics. and that's what we are talking about, not chopping wood outside Lexington.

survival at a global level, is not a simple issue these days.

it hasn't been since the 1950's.

Likewise, I'm sure.

And it is NOT a complex world (economics/politics). It's pretty much good vs. evil. Right vs. wrong. Just because the talking heads try and make it complex, and the left demands we all see things in shades of gray, doesn't make it complex.

Either way though I've got enough wood cut and stacked to keep my family warm this winter, and enough trees left to cut for a lifetime, enough canned fruits and veggies, deer, fish, elk, and beef, and plenty of space/resources to ensure a lifetime supply of those things, plenty of water, plenty of money, and a damn fine future if God is willing to let me live a full life. And you and people like you don't have a clue about it. I wasn't born on a farm, I wasn't born to be a self-reliant simple person, I've evolved into it. So, rather than look at people like me as backwoods hillbillies you might wanna start looking at people like me as the ones who have learned from their stupidity and mistakes.

1950's? Whatever.

[TopDawg]

Hey Dean, will you tell us about your days as a liberal youth? I'd like to hear some of those stories.

[TopDawg]

Look, this thread has taken a terribly wrong turn. I'm sure this post won't stop it or redirect it, but I'd like to say this anyway.

85Sooner is a nice guy. He helped me do some research on my TV purchase and I enjoy conversing with him on the board. But I do think that his remark (and the one by Jerk) was terribly crass (Jerk's much less so, however).

Look, whatever your feelings are about Molly, take a lesson from Dean's momma and if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Now, I admit I'm one of the first to break that rule when it comes to some of the abysmally ignorant conservative nitwits in the media, but I'll take my leave from those sorts of comments when they pass. I probably won't shed a tear when Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh die, but I also won't be happy and post disparaging remarks on a message board.

I also won't go from not knowing a thing about her to cussing her name before her body is cold just because some "people I trust" disagree with her beliefs or methods of espousing them.

[King Crimson]

Likewise, I'm sure.

And it is NOT a complex world (economics/politics). It's pretty much good vs. evil. Right vs. wrong. Just because the talking heads try and make it complex, and the left demands we all see things in shades of gray, doesn't make it complex.

Either way though I've got enough wood cut and stacked to keep my family warm this winter, and enough trees left to cut for a lifetime, enough canned fruits and veggies, deer, fish, elk, and beef, and plenty of space/resources to ensure a lifetime supply of those things, plenty of water, plenty of money, and a damn fine future if God is willing to let me live a full life. And you and people like you don't have a clue about it. I wasn't born on a farm, I wasn't born to be a self-reliant simple person, I've evolved into it. So, rather than look at people like me as backwoods hillbillies you might wanna start looking at people like me as the ones who have learned from their stupidity and mistakes.

1950's? Whatever.

well, you are ****ing wrong about that. both sides of my family settled in what is now Oklahoma long before it was a state or a "Territory" and traded with the Cherokee and Choctaw and Arapahoe up near Lela, Oklahoma and also Strong City in Arapahoe winter hunting grounds. and drove cattle across Oklahoma from Missouri to New Mexico.

i don't look at anyone as backward looking hillbillies. My grandparents never went to college, none of them. but they put all their kids through. i went to college only because my granddad worked his *** off after flying some of the highest casualty missions in WW II--Ploesti one of them--ask Homey about Ploesti. he came back with a Purple Heart and an Air Corps Medal of Honor, and my dad worked his *** off to go to law school--working two jobs in law school. all my paternal uncles came back to Oklahoma decorated after WW II, all 5 of them. the reward they got, was losing their farms and ranches.

screw off Dean and your holier than thou BS.

i know a lot about what you are talking about, but you are the one too small minded to admit that it might be true that i do, apparently.

[sooneron]

Well, this thread pretty much went the way that it would.

[GrapevineSooner]

rinse and repeat.

One of my best friends at my old job was a self-admitted socialist. There were maybe two things politically we agreed with each other on.

Yet, I still liked him because he brought me kolaches every morning.

[Frozen Sooner]

I had never heard of her until this morning either. I decided to read some of her stuff, so I read the free excerpts from some of her books listed on Amazon. Thought provoking, insightful. I think not. It was mostly just a collection of liberal cliches.
That being said, I'll mourn her death as much as I mourn the death of other people I've never heard of. I'll celebrate it that much also.

And it will be every bit as wrong then as it is now.

[TopDawg]

rinse and repeat.

One of my best friends at my old job was a self-admitted socialist. There were maybe two things politically we agreed with each other on.

Yet, I still liked him because he brought me kolaches every morning.

Heh. I like that you used "admitted" instead of "proclaimed."

[KaiserSooner]

Heh. Gotta love simple minds.

[jk the sooner fan]

heh. gotta love those that think they're superior to others for thinking differently....

[Half a Hundred]

Heh. Gotta love simple minds.

So, they're playing "Don't You (Forget About Me)" at Ivins' funeral?

[TopDawg]

heh. gotta love those that think they're superior to others for thinking differently....

That post reeks of claiming superiority for disagreeing with the superiority viewpoint.

[mdklatt]

the hollow skulled son who graded better in college than John Kerry?

That's certainly not setting the bar very high.

[jk the sooner fan]

That post reeks of claiming superiority for disagreeing with the superiority viewpoint.

stupid is as stupid does

[TopDawg]

That's certainly not setting the bar very high.

Plus, let's not forget that W was a cheerleader. They always get good grades.

[KaiserSooner]

heh. gotta love those that think they're superior to others for thinking differently....

Heh. No, I just think I'm intellectually superior to those that aren't capable of getting past the whole black/white, good/evil thing.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I met Molly Ivins once. If you google my name, you'll find a South Oval reference where they quoted my review.

[Mongo]

Heh. No, I just think I'm intellectually superior to those that aren't capable of getting past the whole black/white, good/evil thing.


I dont think its "intellectually superior" you mean, I think the phrase your looking for is "more pompous"

[TopDawg]

Picasso might be on to something by comparing the grades.

I think we should require all new posters to submit an academic transcript. Then when we get into a heated debate, one of the mods can just reveal to us who is smarter and that'll be the end of that.

But I guess we also need to factor in mistakes because, as Dean pointed out, those can also be a great method of learning. So we also need some method of tracking mistakes. That could make up 1/4th of the total "intelligence" score.

Then each week all the posters can submit ballots on who they think is the most knowledgeable on various topics. Those ballots will be counted and the top 25 vote-getters will receive more points. That can make up another 1/4th of the total intelligence score.

I'll come up with a computer program that will make up the other 1/4th.

[mdklatt]

I met Molly Ivins once. If you google my name, you'll find a South Oval reference where they quoted my review.

I just get a bunch of links to "Boomer Sooner" lyrics....

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Ahhh here it is



Molly Ivins, to put it bluntly, "Rocked My Face Off." She was the highlight of this conference. Sharp and witty, she holds nothing back.

[TopDawg]

I just get a bunch of links to "Boomer Sooner" lyrics....

Any ringtones?

[mdklatt]

Picasso might be on to something by comparing the grades.

I think we should require all new posters to submit an academic transcript. Then when we get into a heated debate, one of the mods can just reveal to us who is smarter and that'll be the end of that.


It doesn't need to be that complex. Anybody who got better grades than John Kerry is clearly a genius, and anybody who never drunk drove off a bridge and killed a women is an excellent driver.

[mdklatt]

Any ringtones?

Hee hee! IMSSRA....

[SoonerBorn68]

I dont think its "intellectually superior" you mean, I think the phrase your looking for is "more pompous"

You're too kind Mongo. I was thinking elitest jackass.

[jk the sooner fan]

And it will be every bit as wrong then as it is now.

im having a tough time with this......taking your comment literally, you're going to be spending alot of time mourning the death of a buttload of people you dont know

unless i just totally misread what you were trying to say......i didnt find anything wrong with what he said

he's not mourning it, nor celebrating it

[TUSooner]

Look, this thread has taken a terribly wrong turn. I'm sure this post won't stop it or redirect it, but I'd like to say this anyway.

85Sooner is a nice guy. He helped me do some research on my TV purchase and I enjoy conversing with him on the board. But I do think that his remark (and the one by Jerk) was terribly crass (Jerk's much less so, however).

Look, whatever your feelings are about Molly, take a lesson from Dean's momma and if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Now, I admit I'm one of the first to break that rule when it comes to some of the abysmally ignorant conservative nitwits in the media, but I'll take my leave from those sorts of comments when they pass. I probably won't shed a tear when Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh die, but I also won't be happy and post disparaging remarks on a message board.

I also won't go from not knowing a thing about her to cussing her name before her body is cold just because some "people I trust" disagree with her beliefs or methods of espousing them.

That's a good post. And I think I was the first flame thrower; so my apologies to all for ranting away right off the bat this morning. That's kinda like the guy who shot Franz Ferdinand (the Archduke, not the band) saying "Aw, fergitabouttit" after WWI was already started. I'm sure 85 is a nice guy, I've read many of his posts over the years and never felt like I needed to go all Bananas Foster over it. Like some posters are just waiting for any chance to launch into a canned conservative rant, I was primed for an over-the-top remark to put me over the top. And I never even read Molly Ivins except maybe twice, and I thought she was smug & over-the-top. Doesn't mean I'm glad she's dead, though; I could ignore her just fine while she was alive. So there.

Tomorrow I'll concisely and politely explain exactly that's wrong with some of y'all, but for now I think I'll go induce vomiting or something. :eek: :D

Love & Kisses

[Stoop Dawg]

Picasso might be on to something by comparing the grades.

I think we should require all new posters to submit an academic transcript. Then when we get into a heated debate, one of the mods can just reveal to us who is smarter and that'll be the end of that.

But I guess we also need to factor in mistakes because, as Dean pointed out, those can also be a great method of learning. So we also need some method of tracking mistakes. That could make up 1/4th of the total "intelligence" score.

Then each week all the posters can submit ballots on who they think is the most knowledgeable on various topics. Those ballots will be counted and the top 25 vote-getters will receive more points. That can make up another 1/4th of the total intelligence score.

I'll come up with a computer program that will make up the other 1/4th.


PLAYOFF!! PLAAAAAAYYYYYY - OOOOFFFFFF!!!!!

[Stoop Dawg]

heh. gotta love those that think they're superior to others for thinking differently....

Dude, just do what I do and let Dean's comments roll off your back. It ain't no big thing.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Heh. No, I just think I'm intellectually superior to those that aren't capable of getting past the whole black/white, good/evil thing.Heh.

[sooner_born_1960]

And it will be every bit as wrong then as it is now.
Which part?

[Frozen Sooner]

im having a tough time with this......taking your comment literally, you're going to be spending alot of time mourning the death of a buttload of people you dont know

unless i just totally misread what you were trying to say......i didnt find anything wrong with what he said

he's not mourning it, nor celebrating it


You misread it. I was referring to the first part where he was talking about how liberals will be dancing with glee when Rush Limbaugh or some other conservative pundit dies etc.

I don't mourn the death of Molly Ivins, because I didn't know her. I regret her passing because I enjoyed her writing.

[sooner_born_1960]

Mike, you quoted me. I didn't say anything about Rush...

[TopDawg]

I dont think its "intellectually superior" you mean, I think the phrase your looking for is "more pompous"

I'm happy enough just being grammatically superior. :texan:

[TopDawg]

...and pompous.

[Mongo]

weak

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm resting my case now.

[GrapevineSooner]

I'm resting my head.

[Stoop Dawg]

I'm happy enough just being grammatically superior. :texan:

This board must make you VERY happy.

[TopDawg]

weak

I don't think it's "weak" you mean, I think the phrase you're looking for is "[talking goat]you really zinged me with that one![/talking goat]"

;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Mike, you quoted me. I didn't say anything about Rush...

My fault, I quoted the wrong post.

[jk the sooner fan]

no wonder i was confused! :)

[picasso]

It doesn't need to be that complex. Anybody who got better grades than John Kerry is clearly a genius, and anybody who never drunk drove off a bridge and killed a women is an excellent driver.
hey it's a valid point. people act like Dubya is as stupid as he sounds and looks, which isn't the case. he pulled a better average than Lurch. it is what it is.:D

look, we can all agree to disagree on several topics. I do have a feeling KC might get a bit more heated on a musical discussion much the same way I would iffen you folks started talking up Thomas Kincaid.:mad: :)

[JohnnyMack]

hey it's a valid point. people act like Dubya is as stupid as he sounds and looks, which isn't the case. he pulled a better average than Lurch. it is what it is.:D

look, we can all agree to disagree on several topics. I do have a feeling KC might get a bit more heated on a musical discussion much the same way I would iffen you folks started talking up Thomas Kincaid.:mad: :)

That guy ****in' rocks. I have one of his prints in my office. And a snow globe on my desk.

[picasso]

gay!

[mdklatt]

much the same way I would iffen you folks started talking up Thomas Kincaid.:mad: :)


Ooh, my sister really likes him. :D

[picasso]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

[King Crimson]

educate me again picasso on my relation to kincaid. since you referenced me, hobbit dwellings and overly "romantic slurred landscapes" that trump a Denver omelette and hash browns?

i'm a ruthless marxist, and i ain't kidding. all you you bourgeois pigs will die in my world.

and hash browns. and Charlie Parker.

[picasso]

not drawring you with Kincaid, just setting the example akin to you talking up Kincaid in an art discussion and me on the merits of REO Speedwagon.:D

bourgeois is soooo overrated. go buy a painting that matches your couch you small time wanks.

[King Crimson]

dude, REO is rocking.

small time couches, i've seen them.

life is so much more interesting than that couch....

hahaha.

[picasso]

Ridin the Storm Out, live. yeah.
Can't Fight This Felling Anymore, not so much.

I did love the guitar solo in Keep On Lovin You. got to where I could play that on my accoustic, circa '83.

[King Crimson]

i was kind of foolin about REO.

i bet you got some playing that solo.

[picasso]

oh I know that. those boys weren't raised up on that conebread.

[Jerk]

Howdy! Mery fn' snowday everybody! I come home 12 hours after this started and, I must say, alot of people here claim to "take the high road" with their superior intellect. These folks say "there is no black and white" and claim "you cannot label me as either conservative or liberal." They tell us that the world is more complicated than that, you know, cuz' they read books and stuff. Funny thing is, these same people, and I ain't naming names, are always attacking conservative/right wing posters, and never critical of the dribbel we get from our resident socialists. Stoop Dawg, Top Dog, Sleez, etc, I'm proud of you guys - at least you have the balls to say "I'm a liberal!" And you don't give a rat's arse if it offends people or not. I myself am a gun-toting right-wing nut job, and you know what? I don't give a sh&& if that offends anyone either!

Black and white is this.."you don't work, you don't eat"

Maybe alot of you don't have that problem.

Black and white is this: either we kill the radical muslims or they will try and destroy us.

You see? It's that simple. Deal with it. When you think too much about stuff, you become a cluserfu** trainwreck like Jimmy Carter's Presidency.

[King Crimson]

you are talking about me. that's great how smart you are.

i work, i eat.


what's really great is how smaller minds do not exist.

[1stTimeCaller]

you are talking about me. that's great how smart you are.

i work, i eat.


what's really great is how smaller minds do not exist.


I just read the entire thread and the only thing that piqued my interest was when you mentioned fancy book learnin' and Dean asked you about the degrees that you hold, you never said.

I'm just curious why you didn't answer that.

[Mongo]

I just read the entire thread and the only thing that piqued my interest was when you mentioned fancy book learnin' and Dean asked you about the degrees that you hold, you never said.

I'm just curious why you didn't answer that.

Why dont you answer with your degrees Mister Stealth Mode Gold Sponsor?

I bet you have a degree in humping-your-relatives.

[King Crimson]

I just read the entire thread and the only thing that piqued my interest was when you mentioned fancy book learnin' and Dean asked you about the degrees that you hold, you never said.

I'm just curious why you didn't answer that.

i don't really think having degrees is the issue.

Dean accused me of being some academic pansy to the effect of not being a hillbilly. i'm from a rural Oklahoma family.

I have a BA from Vanderbilt (which i earned on an academic scholarship), a MA from Colorado and will have a PhD from Colorado in the next year.

i personally don't think it matters at all that much. there are a bunch of PhD's who are morons...or worse puppets for the government or corporate funding or "think tanks". but the abiliity to think is not something we are born with. and history DOES matter.

JMO.

[TopDawg]

Stoop Dawg, Top Dog, Sleez, etc, I'm proud of you guys - at least you have the balls to say "I'm a liberal!" And you don't give a rat's arse if it offends people or not.

I totally understand why I come across as a liberal and I don't mind being classified as such, but I think I'm more of a moderate. Of course today in Oklahoma, being moderate makes you a flaming liberal and I'm okay with that. Especially since, more often than not, I come down on the left side of the issues. But I think if you look at most of my "political" posts, you'll find that I'm against conservatives more than I'm for any liberal issues. And it's not that I despise conservatives just because they're conservative...most of 'em are really good people...it's just "their" method of debate that really gets under my skin (and I know it's not just conservatives who do it). So many of them (especially around here), debate like Rush Limbaugh preaches. Those are two entirely different methods of communication and of discussing the issues, and the Rush approach really gets under my skin. More often than not when I argue against a conservative viewpoint, I'm not arguing against the stance, but the rationale (or lack thereof) that I see in the formation of that stance.

Ask my wife and you'll find that, with her, I play the role of conservative devil's advocate quite often when I think she's come up with a faulty "liberal" viewpoint on something. In fact, I probably owe a lot of my sustained friendships to the fact that I have this outlet on SoonerFans.

When it comes down to it, I think I'm just an ornery sonuva, with moderate-to-liberal political leanings, who loves to debate and play devil's advocate. When I first came onto this board I was about the only moderate around, so I took up the fight for the left and have simply maintained those "rivalries" while more and more people have joined the respective "teams."

[jk the sooner fan]

i can assure you, your "method" is equally "frustrating"

[Jerk]

I like to come home after a 12 hour shift plowing water off the road, drink a few shots of Captain Morgan, and go on a rant here. That's my idea of debate.

[King Crimson]

I like to come home after a 12 hour shift plowing water off the road, drink a few shots of Captain Morgan, and go on a rant here. That's my idea of debate.

that's what this great land is all about.

[85Sooner]

Fixed :rolleyes:


Rush Limbaugh and Ann coulter do not present themselves as journalists. Period.

Ivins did. There is a bid difference between the two. Ivins did not portray herself as a political commentaqry. She portrayed herself as a "journalist".

[C&CDean]

i don't really think having degrees is the issue.

Dean accused me of being some academic pansy to the effect of not being a hillbilly. i'm from a rural Oklahoma family.

I have a BA from Vanderbilt (which i earned on an academic scholarship), a MA from Colorado and will have a PhD from Colorado in the next year.

i personally don't think it matters at all that much. there are a bunch of PhD's who are morons...or worse puppets for the government or corporate funding or "think tanks". but the abiliity to think is not something we are born with. and history DOES matter.

JMO.

What? I accused you of being an academic pansy? In what language?

I'm pretty sure it was you who was talking about your superior intellect, your ability to think so much more clearly and deeply, etc. I'm pretty sure it was you who began bandying about things like "choppin' wood," etc. I'm pretty sure it was you who told me to **** off, screw myself, being holier-than-thou, and a few other choice personal attacks. I'm pretty sure it was you who have been accusing others of having small minds, of being Rush puppets, etc.

You're working on a PhD at Colorado? That explains a lot. And I don't mean that in a bad way, just in an "ah ha" way.

I'll continue living my simple-yet-fulfilling life, not worry a whole lot about world politics and economics, and try not to share my point of view quite so vehemently with others. But try to understand why I do. When you've been around as long as I, have kids who've grown and gone, have gone through much "life" has to offer you tend to get jaundiced and a little opinionated about things. You tend to not let the little things worry you. You tend to want to help others succeed, whether they want the advice or not.

Trust me, I know my way of doing things ain't the only way. In fact, I'm pretty much in a very tiny minority. But when your life is as fulfilling as mine, you want to share.

[C&CDean]

Hey Dean, will you tell us about your days as a liberal youth? I'd like to hear some of those stories.

Really? I've pretty much shared most of my youthful stupidity on this board in other threads, but I'll give you a quick highlight reel.

-Registered democrat until the 2nd Reagan election
-Drug addled anti-establishment rabble-rouser through the 70's
-Personally involved in decisions to abort babies
-Drew unemployment and flogged the dog when I should have been working

I could go on, but it wouldn't really do any good. The only issues I've always been "conservative" on are guns, gays, and capital punishment.

[TopDawg]

i can assure you, your "method" is equally "frustrating"

Typically my "method" is saying "back that up with some substance" or "sure, but you should consider this." I understand why that is frustrating to so many people.

[TopDawg]

I like to come home after a 12 hour shift plowing water off the road, drink a few shots of Captain Morgan, and go on a rant here. That's my idea of debate.

Another part of the system I mentioned a while back should be prefacing each post with your current blood-alcohol level.

[C&CDean]

Typically my "method" is saying "back that up with some substance" or "sure, but you should consider this." I understand why that is frustrating to so many people.

:rolleyes:

[TopDawg]

:rolleyes:

I love it when you inject your more subtle brand of irony into our discussions.

[King Crimson]

What? I accused you of being an academic pansy? In what language?

I'm pretty sure it was you who was talking about your superior intellect, your ability to think so much more clearly and deeply, etc. I'm pretty sure it was you who began bandying about things like "choppin' wood," etc. I'm pretty sure it was you who told me to **** off, screw myself, being holier-than-thou, and a few other choice personal attacks. I'm pretty sure it was you who have been accusing others of having small minds, of being Rush puppets, etc.

You're working on a PhD at Colorado? That explains a lot. And I don't mean that in a bad way, just in an "ah ha" way.

I'll continue living my simple-yet-fulfilling life, not worry a whole lot about world politics and economics, and try not to share my point of view quite so vehemently with others. But try to understand why I do. When you've been around as long as I, have kids who've grown and gone, have gone through much "life" has to offer you tend to get jaundiced and a little opinionated about things. You tend to not let the little things worry you. You tend to want to help others succeed, whether they want the advice or not.

Trust me, I know my way of doing things ain't the only way. In fact, I'm pretty much in a very tiny minority. But when your life is as fulfilling as mine, you want to share.

i doubt you remember it, but i've complemented you on your "simple-yet fiulfilling" life in the past. and i read your shizz at hornfans in the late 90's and i posted there too.

Colorado offered me good money to get degrees here.....it's nothing to do with your perceived/denied political "ah ha". it doesn't explain anything. if it does, it's the just the stereotypical BS you claim to deny. Colorado is a good place to get paid to live. i was asked about that, i responded. i'm sure it confirmed all your smarmy comments about me 100 times over.

but, what you are saying is kind of bull****. you don't know me....and you insulted my family and i'm not cool on that. i never started on about my "superior intellect"...

[TUSooner]

My gripe - the thing that turns me into a flaming banana - is gross oversimplification.
Yes, there IS right & wrong, true & false, good & evil. I can't stand people who claim there is no objective truth or who needlessly complicate things. Simplicity is good. "Yes & no" and "on & off" are how we function. My core views are conservative (less gub’ment messing around, more personal liberty -- AND accountability).

But politics is not simple because its about lots of people with different problems. People who parrot black-line, them versus us Limbaugh-type conservatism are no better than people whose answer to every issue is to spout some BS Marxist slogan. Most of the extreme arguments on both ends boil down to vilification of their opponents anyway. It’s nothing new. I've known both types, and both are a pain in the azs.

Whenever I read a post by someone with "all the answers" all I know for certain is that the person has stopped listening. It's the worst when good people sacrifice their goodness to some narrow political dogma. No political system is perfect enough to be worshipped. That's exactly the stuff that creates Islamic terrorists, abortion clinic bombers, Bolsheviks, Nazis, and that loony preacher who desecrates the funerals of fallen soldiers. It's a loss of proper perspective.

A
loss
of
proper
perspective.

It's at the root of why good folk would express pleasure over the death by cancer of a 62-year old lady just because she wrote a bunch of rude and inflammatory leftist drivel (so I’m told; I ignored her). OK, don't be a hypocrite and pretend you loved her just because she's dead. But, man, at least have the decency to realize that she was only human being - a bag of turds (Martin Luther's words) destined to be worm food - just like you.

That stuff happens when blinders-on extremist folk get going: It's a knee jerk reaction that says: "I have all the answers." But mostly it says: "If IT isn't within the narrow world of my concretized belief system, then IT and everybody associated with IT, is ALL wrong and worthy of contempt and hatred." When somebody lives in that sort of black and white world, devoid of living color, it’s not good.

I've been guilty of it, moreso when I was a young rabid conservative ideologue. In those days, I stuck with my conservative "principles" in the face of all suffering -- suffering by others, that is. Now I'm an older, more skeptical and sensible conservative - or at least I aim to be.

So if I regrettably flame out over some post, it's not because I think the poster is a useless person, it's because I think the poster has lost focus. And in my own inimitable way, I'm trying to restore it. (Yeah, that's it.)

As the Politician of No-Politics said (sorta): "It's about your neighbor, stupid!" (See, e.g., Mark 12:33) When we forget that, we're lost.
The ushers will now pass the plate. :rolleyes:
The end.

[TopDawg]

Rush Limbaugh and Ann coulter do not present themselves as journalists. Period.

Ivins did. There is a bid difference between the two. Ivins did not portray herself as a political commentaqry. She portrayed herself as a "journalist".

85, I can't speak for everybody, but I certainly don't begrudge you for not liking Ivins. I don't necessarily agree with your reasons (or, maybe, your consistency when it comes to conservative pundits), but I can totally understand why conservative-thinking folks would have great disdain for her.

However, surely you can understand why many of us thought that your "good riddance" comment was out of place. Sometimes it's better just to bite your tounge.

[C&CDean]

i doubt you remember it, but i've complemented you on your "simple-yet fiulfilling" life in the past. and i read your shizz at hornfans in the late 90's and i posted there too.

Colorado offered me good money to get degrees here.....it's nothing to do with your perceived/denied political "ah ha". it doesn't explain anything. if it does, it's the just the stereotypical BS you claim to deny. Colorado is a good place to get paid to live. i was asked about that, i responded. i'm sure it confirmed all your smarmy comments about me 100 times over.

but, what you are saying is kind of bull****. you don't know me....and you insulted my family and i'm not cool on that. i never started on about my "superior intellect"...

Uh, OK. If you say so, but I seriously don't recall saying a word about your family. And I know all about Colorado. Born in Colorado Springs, my brother lives in Arvada, and I go elk hunting there every year. I know all about CU too. A bastion of liberal goo. The best thing to come out of that place was Dr. Morris Massey. If you don't fit the CU stereotype, then good on you. If the tenny fits though, you gotta lace it up. And you must admit, you sure talk a pretty strong Boulder game.

[C&CDean]

I love it when you inject your more subtle brand of irony into our discussions.

So you want me to do a TopDawg huh?

"My method is to point out the positives of my way of thinking and to point out the negatives of your way of thinking." Nah, a rolleyes is probably better.

[Jerk]

A bastion of liberal goo.

Tee hee

[King Crimson]

If you don't fit the CU stereotype, then good on you. If the tenny fits though, you gotta lace it up. And you must admit, you sure talk a pretty strong Boulder game.

surely, in your tiny world of right and wrong i must.

i know it will cause you great pain to have to admit your stereotypical version of the world, the Big 8, and life itself might just be wrong....but CU students are pretty conservative as a group. and the women wear make-up these days.....and not just fat hairy thighs, pits, and birks. progress, right?

[TUSooner]

OK, now that I got my serious spiel out of the way, I'm ready bust somebody's chops with my uberintellect and wit. So go ahead, bizanachos and biznachas, say something stupid, I dare ya!

[C&CDean]

surely, in your tiny world of right and wrong i must.

i know it will cause you great pain to have to admit your stereotypical version of the world, the Big 8, and life itself might just be wrong....but CU students are pretty conservative as a group. and the women wear make-up these days.....and not just fat hairy thighs, pits, and birks. progress, right?

Ah, progress. Usually a good thing.

Now leave me alone and let me enjoy my miniscule little world.

[C&CDean]

OK, now that I got my serious spiel out of the way, I'm ready bust somebody's chops with my uberintellect and wit. So go ahead, bizanachos and biznachas, say something stupid, I dare ya!

Hillary is hawt.

[TUSooner]

Hillary is hawt.
too easy
<yawn>

No wonder Bill boinked around.

[Jerk]

OK, now that I got my serious spiel out of the way, I'm ready bust somebody's chops with my uberintellect and wit. So go ahead, bizanachos and biznachas, say something stupid, I dare ya!

Libertarians are Republicans who don't go to church and like to smoke pot.

[Jerk]

Is Molly Ivans still dead?

[TUSooner]

Libertarians are Republicans who don't go to church and like to smoke pot.
Ummmm....Would you believe I'm a former Libertarian? :D

[SoonerBorn68]

Is Molly Ivans still dead?

As high esteem as some of posters here hold her, she might be risen--since it is the third day.

[Jerk]

Ummmm....Would you believe I'm a former Libertarian? :D

Your brother said you still are. I thought being a libertarian was like being a blood or a crip, once you're in, you can never get out.

[TUSooner]

Your brother said you still are. I thought being a libertarian was like being a blood or a crip, once you're in, you can never get out.
Well then I must be, if he says so! ;)

I do go to church, but since it's not Babdis, he prob'ly doesn't count it... Methodists being all "liberal" & stuff, y'know.
And pot is right out. I got nothing against it, mind you, but after years, one day it just stopped being enjoyable.


I really love my bro, though. :)

[Stoop Dawg]

Stoop Dawg, Top Dog, Sleez, etc, I'm proud of you guys - at least you have the balls to say "I'm a liberal!"

Remember that thread where I agreed with everything you said? I bet that ****ed you off royal, since I'm a liberal and all.

Let's take Dean's list and try to be as "black and white" as possible:



Besides, there's only about 5 issues that separate the average liberal from the average conservative. If you're pro-gun, pro-life, pro-capital punishment, pro-normal marriage, and pro capitalism then you're a conservative. Where do you stand on those issues?

Pro Gun - For it.
Pro Life - For it.
Pro Capital Punishment - For it.
Pro Normal Marriage - Against it.
Pro Capitalism - For it.

I'm one crazy-assed liberal, that's for sure. I hope I don't **** off you conservatives too bad with my radical leftist leanings.

[jk the sooner fan]

i've never thought of you as a liberal

just something else......

[Jerk]

Remember that thread where I agreed with everything you said? I bet that ****ed you off royal, since I'm a liberal and all.

Let's take Dean's list and try to be as "black and white" as possible:




Pro Gun - For it.
Pro Life - For it.
Pro Capital Punishment - For it.
Pro Normal Marriage - Against it.
Pro Capitalism - For it.

I'm one crazy-assed liberal, that's for sure. I hope I don't **** off you conservatives too bad with my radical leftist leanings.

Commie!





;)

[Jerk]

Well then I must be, if he says so! ;)

I do go to church, but since it's not Babdis, he prob'ly doesn't count it... Methodists being all "liberal" & stuff, y'know.
And pot is right out. I got nothing against it, mind you, but after years, one day it just stopped being enjoyable.


I really love my bro, though. :)

I've heard that Methodists were kind of like Baptist, cept they like to drink and dance :pop:

[Okla-homey]

I am stunned that this has gone on for so many pages. Well, "somewhat" stunned anyway. You people are priceless...and I do not mean that in a perjorative sense.

carry on.

[picasso]

you just wait until George F. Will dies.

all the illiterates will come outta da woods.

[Okla-homey]

I've heard that Methodists were kind of like Baptist, cept they like to drink and dance :pop:

Methodists ordain chicks. They may be "male waiverable" chicks, but they do ordain people who lack a Y chromosome. That's just wrong.;)

[TUSooner]

I am stunned that this has gone on for so many pages. Well, "somewhat" stunned anyway. You people are priceless...and I do not mean that in a perjorative sense.

carry on.

Well, when you've got a bunch of highly flammable vapors and material all collected in a small spot like the SO, any old spark will cause an explosion and fire, then everybody starts showing up with their old furniture and stuff, and, before you know it .... BONFIRE!

:)

[TUSooner]

I've heard that Methodists were kind of like Baptist, cept they like to drink and dance :pop:
We can discuss that over a few alcoholic libations next time I come up.
But I will NOT dance with you.

[Okla-homey]

Well, when you've got a bunch of highly flammable vapors and material all collected in a small spot like the SO, any old spark will cause an explosion and fire, then everybody starts showing up with their old furniture and stuff, and, before you know it .... BONFIRE!

:)

Which reminds me, which city will burn after the game this weekend? Chicago or Indianapolis? I don't understand this modern notion that if your team wins a big game, you get to trash your neighborhood.

[Jerk]

We can discuss that over a few alcoholic libations next time I come up.
But I will NOT dance with you.

deal!

[FaninAma]

Is Molly Ivans still dead?

I don't know. How can we check?

[Stoop Dawg]

Now leave me alone and let me enjoy my miniscule little world.

No can do. I still want to know if you have to sack to stand behind your views on capital punishment. Do the cops in NO get a medal or the electric chair?

[Jerk]

I can't live up to Dean, but here's my take: (actually don't have a take yet, just some questions)

Did the cops believe the 'victims' were a threat, and fired at them for what they believed were defensive reasons?

Or did the cops murder the victims for a nefarious purpose?

Out of curiousity, what were the races of those involved in this?

[FaninAma]

I can't live up to Dean, but here's my take: (actually don't have a take yet, just some questions)

Did the cops believe the 'victims' were a threat, and fired at them for what they believed were defensive reasons?

Or did the cops murder the victims for a nefarious purpose?

Out of curiousity, what were the races of those involved in this?

One positive out this is it will be awfully hard for the upset citizenry to burn down the city...unless they stack everything up and have a bonfire.

[C&CDean]

No can do. I still want to know if you have to sack to stand behind your views on capital punishment. Do the cops in NO get a medal or the electric chair?

Give me a down and dirty highlight of the case. All I know about it is that some cops shot some people on a bridge sometime around Katrina.

But I will warn you in advance that if the cops were: a) under threat or b) under assumed threat or c) protecting someone who was under threat or d) protecting property or e) in the wrong place at the wrong time I'm gonna have to go with "medal."

[TUSooner]

Which reminds me, which city will burn after the game this weekend? Chicago or Indianapolis? I don't understand this modern notion that if your team wins a big game, you get to trash your neighborhood.
I can only say this: IF New Orleans ever wins a Super Bowl, you will see the right kind of celebrating. It might even make you forget about the looters and chaos after the storm. Nothing will burn, 'cept MAYBE a couple of empty houses that need burning anyway. Uptown blue hairs will be kissing Central City gang bangers, on the mouth (no tongue, though -- yuck)

[C&CDean]

I can only say this: IF New Orleans ever wins a Super Bowl, you will see the right kind of celebrating. It might even make you forget about the looters and chaos after the storm. Nothing will burn, 'cept MAYBE a couple of empty houses that need burning anyway. Uptown blue hairs will be kissing Central City gang bangers, on the mouth (no tongue, though -- yuck)

Well it's a damn good thing we don't ever have to worry about that.:twinkies:

[TUSooner]

Well it's a damn good thing we don't ever have to worry about that.:twinkies:
Go chop some kindling or shovel some manure (real manure, not the stuff you post on here.) :rolleyes:
But seriously folks...
Here's some poop about the Danziger 7. Not much, but my take:\

2 apparently harmless and innocent men, one 40-yo mentally retarded man and and the 19yo brother of a dentist, were shot and killed by police bullets, 4 other people were wounded, The 2 dead (and I think the 4 shot) were black, 4 of the 7 officers charged with murder are also black. Nonetheless, the Rev Al Sharpton says it's a race crime. :rolleyes: Cops of all races have united to support the defendants (rightly, IMHO).

It seesm there were some thug types fring shots at the Danziger bridge. Cops responded. More shots were fired, and the cops accidentally / mistakenly shot the inncent victims, who were fleeing the other shooters. I think. The cops probably did wrong under stress, but it was in a time of utter chaos and there was no "murder." Again - I think. I believe this is a political prosecution all the way, because the NO DA is a totally inept stupid f*ckhead incompetent dumbass booby idiot fool imbecile dikwheel.

[C&CDean]

Go chop some kindling or shovel some manure (real manure, not the stuff you post on here.) :rolleyes:

But seriously folks...
Here's some poop about the Danziger 7. Not much, but my take:\

2 apparently harmless and innocent men, one 40-yo mentally retarded man and and the 19yo brother of a dentist, were shot and killed by police bullets, 4 other people were wounded, The 2 dead (and I think the 4 shot) were black, 4 of the 7 officers charged with murder are also black. Nonetheless, the Rev Al Sharpton says it's a race crime. :rolleyes: Cops of all races have united to support the defendants (rightly, IMHO).

It seesm there were some thug types fring shots at the Danziger bridge. Cops responded. More shots were fired, and the cops accidentally / mistakenly shot the inncent victims, who were fleeing the other shooters. I think. The cops probably did wrong under stress, but it was in a time of utter chaos and there was no "murder." Again - I think. I believe this is a political prosecution all the way, because the NO DA is a totally inept stupid f*ckhead incompetent dumbass booby idiot fool imbecile dikwheel.

Oh. In that case no capital punishment. I reserve capital punishment for folks who commit murder, not just kill people. There you go TD.

[TUSooner]

Oh. In that case no capital punishment. I reserve capital punishment for folks who commit murder, not just kill people. There you go TD.
The DA has said he will not seek the death penalty anyway. Still - smells bogus to me

[Frozen Sooner]

you just wait until George F. Will dies.

all the illiterates will come outta da woods.

I like George Will's writing a lot. He's got a great sense of humor.

[BeetDigger]

Wow, 10 pages and still going strong.


Any details on her funeral? Al Franken going to be a pall bearer? Barbara Streisand going to sing?

[Jerk]

Frozen Mike - is that green woman above your avator breast feeding the little red man?

[Frozen Sooner]

God, I hope so.

[jk the sooner fan]

George Will is a GREAT baseball writer

[85Sooner]

85, I can't speak for everybody, but I certainly don't begrudge you for not liking Ivins. I don't necessarily agree with your reasons (or, maybe, your consistency when it comes to conservative pundits), but I can totally understand why conservative-thinking folks would have great disdain for her.

However, surely you can understand why many of us thought that your "good riddance" comment was out of place. Sometimes it's better just to bite your tounge.


I can understand however I have held it for so long and I kee[p seeing things get worse and worse.

ie: Deputy sheriff is being sentenced today for firing at a car full of illegal mexicans after they tried to run him over. th US gov flew 4 illegals over here, gave them amnesty and got them to testify. Now it looks like he will be facing 10 years.

This is the 2nd time in a couple months where our guys are going to prison for protecting us.

The federal goverrnment is totally OUT of control. Seriously, and it is more and more pundits like the woman we are talking about. Their socialist and communist commentaries are tunring this country into a freefall politically correct slide.

The more and more I see it the looser my tounge is probably gonna get.
I never ever thought in my life I would have to defend this country from some of its own citizens but the more and more I see, the more and more I can see a civil conflict growing in this country.

[SleestakSooner]

I can understand however I have held it for so long and I kee[p seeing things get worse and worse.

ie: Deputy sheriff is being sentenced today for firing at a car full of illegal mexicans after they tried to run him over. th US gov flew 4 illegals over here, gave them amnesty and got them to testify. Now it looks like he will be facing 10 years.

This is the 2nd time in a couple months where our guys are going to prison for protecting us.

The federal goverrnment is totally OUT of control. Seriously, and it is more and more pundits like the woman we are talking about. Their socialist and communist commentaries are tunring this country into a freefall politically correct slide.

The more and more I see it the looser my tounge is probably gonna get.
I never ever thought in my life I would have to defend this country from some of its own citizens but the more and more I see, the more and more I can see a civil conflict growing in this country.

I couldn't agree more. It is complete BS that we as a country would hire people to do a job like border control and then haul them into court on felony charges for doing the job we hired them for.

We waste more time and money in this country attempting to be politically correct than I ever could have imagined. :(

[Stoop Dawg]

Give me a down and dirty highlight of the case. All I know about it is that some cops shot some people on a bridge sometime around Katrina.

But I will warn you in advance that if the cops were: a) under threat or b) under assumed threat or c) protecting someone who was under threat or d) protecting property or e) in the wrong place at the wrong time I'm gonna have to go with "medal."

What do the details of the trial have to do with anything? They're charged with first degree murder. If you don't know what that is, look it up.

They are either guilty or innocent. If they are innocent, they walk (and get a hummer from Dean). If they are guilty, they die. That's how capital punishment works.

There's no "well, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time according to Dean so we'll give them a pass this time" clause.

Perhaps my view is too simple?

[C&CDean]

What do the details of the trial have to do with anything? They're charged with first degree murder. If you don't know what that is, look it up.

They are either guilty or innocent. If they are innocent, they walk (and get a hummer from Dean). If they are guilty, they die. That's how capital punishment works.

There's no "well, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time according to Dean so we'll give them a pass this time" clause.

Perhaps my view is too simple?

No, perhaps you're being obtuse. And a dumas. And a maroon.

And that is not how capital punishment works. Especially when there's other penalties offered for the same crime - by law. Look it up.

[FaninAma]

I can understand however I have held it for so long and I kee[p seeing things get worse and worse.

ie: Deputy sheriff is being sentenced today for firing at a car full of illegal mexicans after they tried to run him over. th US gov flew 4 illegals over here, gave them amnesty and got them to testify. Now it looks like he will be facing 10 years.

This is the 2nd time in a couple months where our guys are going to prison for protecting us.

The federal goverrnment is totally OUT of control. Seriously, and it is more and more pundits like the woman we are talking about. Their socialist and communist commentaries are tunring this country into a freefall politically correct slide.

The more and more I see it the looser my tounge is probably gonna get.
I never ever thought in my life I would have to defend this country from some of its own citizens but the more and more I see, the more and more I can see a civil conflict growing in this country.

Can you give more details on the Deputy Sheriff's story. If true then it is apparnt that soemone hower up in the INS is trying to send a message that agressive enforcement of our immigration laws will not be tolerated.

What kind of jury would convict the guy?

I'm not ready to buy that story without further information.

[Ike]

Which reminds me, which city will burn after the game this weekend? Chicago or Indianapolis? I don't understand this modern notion that if your team wins a big game, you get to trash your neighborhood.


Win or lose, the city of Chicago will be just fine. It's to frickin cold here for rioting.

Sunday we will have a blistering high of 4...and you can bet it will be lower than that when the trophy is handed out (perhaps below zero). Who the hell wants to riot in those kinds of conditions?

[Frozen Sooner]

Win or lose, the city of Chicago will be just fine. It's to frickin cold here for rioting.

Sunday we will have a blistering high of 4...and you can bet it will be lower than that when the trophy is handed out (perhaps below zero). Who the hell wants to riot in those kinds of conditions?

This seems to be an appropriate place to mention that a pineapple express is rolling through South Central Alaska right now. It's 50 degrees outside.

[JohnnyMack]

The federal goverrnment is totally OUT of control. Seriously, and it is more and more pundits like the woman we are talking about. Their socialist and communist commentaries are tunring this country into a freefall politically correct slide.

The more and more I see it the looser my tounge is probably gonna get.
I never ever thought in my life I would have to defend this country from some of its own citizens but the more and more I see, the more and more I can see a civil conflict growing in this country.

Paranoia starts deep, into your heart it will seep, starts when you're always afraid...

[Ike]

This seems to be an appropriate place to mention that a pineapple express is rolling through South Central Alaska right now. It's 50 degrees outside.

http://newboards.tusclan.com/images/smilies/gen/bigmad.gif

[Stoop Dawg]

And that is not how capital punishment works. Especially when there's other penalties offered for the same crime - by law. Look it up.

Looked it up. Capital punishment is reserved for capital crimes - such as premeditated murder.



The first scheme, used by Pennsylvania among other states:

First Degree Murder: All premeditated murders, and (in some states) murders involving certain especially dangerous felonies, such as arson or rape, or committed by an inmate serving a life sentence.

Second Degree Murder: Any felony murder not a first degree murder.

Third Degree Murder: All other murder.

The second scheme, used by New York among other states, as well as the Model Penal Code:

First Degree Murder: Murder involving special circumstances, such as murder of a police officer, judge, fireman or witness to a crime; multiple murders; and torture or especially heinous murders. Note that a "regular" premeditated murder, absent such special circumstances, is not a first-degree murder; murders by poison or "lying in wait" are not per se first-degree murders.

Second Degree Murder: Any premeditated murder or felony murder that does not involve special circumstances.

Some states, such as California, simply preserved the old distinction between two degrees and have no offense called third degree murder. They simply have "first-degree murder" (leading to life in prison) and "first-degree murder with special circumstances" (leading to death), while second-degree murder continues to be the default category.

Other states use the term "capital murder" for those offenses that merit death, and the term is often used even in states whose statutes do not include the term.


Then there's this whole page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

It's all very confusing and not as "black and white" as I had hoped.


No, perhaps you're being obtuse. And a dumas. And a maroon.

The only dumb-*** in this thread is the one parading around saying things like "you're either a liberal or a conservative" and "you're either for Capital Punishment or you're against it".

[Jerk]

Is Molly still dead?

[OhU1]

Kill em all and let God sort em out I say.

[TUSooner]

Is Molly still dead?
Who is Molly?

[C&CDean]

The only dumb-*** in this thread is the one parading around saying things like "you're either a liberal or a conservative" and "you're either for Capital Punishment or you're against it".

Well I didn't see anybody but you say those things so....lace it up.

And trust me, there's more dumbasses here than just you.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I couldn't agree more. It is complete BS that we as a country would hire people to do a job like border control and then haul them into court on felony charges for doing the job we hired them for.

We waste more time and money in this country attempting to be politically correct than I ever could have imagined. :(This...from you!!!??? :eek: :)

[JohnnyMack]

And trust me, there's more dumbasses here than just you.

In.

[85Sooner]

Can you give more details on the Deputy Sheriff's story. If true then it is apparnt that soemone hower up in the INS is trying to send a message that agressive enforcement of our immigration laws will not be tolerated.

What kind of jury would convict the guy?

I'm not ready to buy that story without further information.


Letme check on that.

Since this doesn't have anything to do with ivins I am gonna start a new thread. Oh joy

[C&CDean]

In.

In a great way. Certainly, everyone knows that.

[TUSooner]

Letme check on that.

Since this doesn't have anything to do with ivins I am gonna start a new thread. Oh joy

I'll be over to flame at you in a minute. :twinkies:

[JohnnyMack]

In a great way. Certainly, everyone knows that.

It's about time you recognized my greatness.

[Stoop Dawg]

Well I didn't see anybody but you say those things so....lace it up.


If you're no liberal, then what are you? Besides, there's only about 5 issues that separate the average liberal from the average conservative. If you're pro-gun, pro-life, pro-capital punishment, pro-normal marriage, and pro capitalism then you're a conservative. Where do you stand on those issues? Wait, don't tell me, you're somewhere in the middle on all of them, right? In your mind that makes you a great thinker. In mine it makes you wishy-washy. (yes, that's sarcasm again, I just can't help it)

So, are you for capital punishment or against it? Or are you somewhere in the middle?

Wait, don't tell me, you're FOR it in cases where it is deserved, and AGAINST it in cases where it's not. And you, obviously, are the judge of when it's deserved or not. You're right, that's pretty simple after all.

[85Sooner]

Is Molly still dead?


CURRENTLY ASSUMING ROOM TEMPERATURE.

[SoonerBorn68]

Dirt nap...

Tits up...

If you hadn't nailed it the perch it'd be pushing up daisies...

[Jerk]

So, she really is dead?

[TopDawg]

So you want me to do a TopDawg huh?

"My method is to point out the positives of my way of thinking and to point out the negatives of your way of thinking." Nah, a rolleyes is probably better.

I realize I come across that way sometimes, but it's probably more accurately stated like this: My method is to point out that you are not thinking.

;)

I think you'll find that there are a lot of conservatives on this board who I've never debated with. That's because I don't typically debate the issues, just the way they are presented. My left-leaning nature makes me target conservatives much more than liberals, but on a fundamental level I'm not trying to make anybody agree with my political stance, but to make them understand that their logic is flawed...or, at least...presented incompletely. It doesn't necessarily mean that I disagree with their point, just their method. TU and I are similar in this respect. He said it well when he said:


My gripe - the thing that turns me into a flaming banana - is gross oversimplification.
Yes, there IS right & wrong, true & false, good & evil. I can't stand people who claim there is no objective truth or who needlessly complicate things. Simplicity is good. "Yes & no" and "on & off" are how we function. My core views are conservative (less gub’ment messing around, more personal liberty -- AND accountability).

But politics is not simple because its about lots of people with different problems. People who parrot black-line, them versus us Limbaugh-type conservatism are no better than people whose answer to every issue is to spout some BS Marxist slogan. Most of the extreme arguments on both ends boil down to vilification of their opponents anyway. It’s nothing new. I've known both types, and both are a pain in the azs.

He's a conservative, but I rarely ever get into it with him because he usually comes with a well-thought out and well-presented case. Even if I don't agree with his conclusion, I'm satisfied that he's done a good job of presenting it.

But when someone comes out with the same ol song and dance, straw-man arguments and the like, I (sometimes) spring into action. Sometimes I inadvertently get wrapped up into arguing the issue, but I'm okay with that because I just enjoy the sport of debate.

Y'all used to like it when I did it to longhorns, but you don't like it when I do it to you. And when I say "y'all" I don't mean C&CD. Dean, you probably just thought (think) it's a waste of time. You take the more direct "You're gay" approach.

[TopDawg]

Oh. In that case no capital punishment. I reserve capital punishment for folks who commit murder, not just kill people. There you go TD.

Another case of mistaken identity, StoopDawg?

[1stTimeCaller]

What do the details of the trial have to do with anything? They're charged with first degree murder. If you don't know what that is, look it up.

They are either guilty or innocent. If they are innocent, they walk (and get a hummer from Dean). If they are guilty, they die. That's how capital punishment works.

There's no "well, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time according to Dean so we'll give them a pass this time" clause.

Perhaps my view is too simple?

perhaps. they could be found not-guilty by the Court.

[Mongo]

Another case of mistaken identity, StoopDawg?

well, you all do look the same:D

[TopDawg]

well, you all do look the same:D

I get us confused sometimes too.