PDA

View Full Version : Tale of the tape?...interesting



OU James
1/24/2007, 08:25 PM
Tale of the tapes?
By Jason Cole and Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
January 24, 2007

SAN DIEGO – A federal investigation into extortion claims by New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush and his family has revealed the existence of taped conversations that could confirm Bush took cash and gifts while he was playing football for the University of Southern California.

Lloyd Lake, an investor in a failed sports marketing agency which attempted to launch with Bush as its first client, is the subject of a grand jury probe into the extortion claims. The agency, – called New Era Sports & Entertainment – was founded by Lake and San Diego businessman Michael Michaels. Lake told Yahoo! Sports in August 2006 that he contributed a portion of the cash and gifts allegedly given to Bush and his family as part of an agreement to represent the then-USC running back when he signed an NFL contract.

According to multiple sources in an ongoing Yahoo! Sports investigation, nearly $280,000 in cash, rent and gifts was allegedly given to Bush and his family. Lake and Michaels both said in August 2006 that they plan to file a lawsuit against Bush.

ADVERTISEMENT
The U.S. District Attorney's office in San Diego has issued grand jury subpoenas to multiple witnesses in the probe since October, requiring them to appear before federal investigators. According to a copy of a subpoena obtained by Yahoo! Sports, at least one of the witnesses was asked to produce "any recordings in your possession of conversations between Lloyd Lake and Reggie Bush, Denise Griffin, or LaMar Griffin." Denise Griffin is Bush's mother. LaMar Griffin is Bush's stepfather.

If such taped conversations involving Bush become public, Bush and USC could face penalties from the NCAA and Pacific-10 Conference, which are conducting ongoing investigations into reports of extra benefits.

If the NCAA rules that Bush received extra benefits during his playing career at USC, he could be ruled retroactively ineligible. Since some of the benefits date to the 2004 season, the Trojans' national championship that season could be rescinded. USC could face further NCAA sanctions and Bush's 2005 Heisman Trophy could be in jeopardy. The Heisman ballot indicates that an athlete must meet NCAA eligibility requirements to be considered for college football's most prestigious award.

"I respectfully decline to comment on the media frenzy regarding Reggie Bush, his family and his college career," David Cornwell, Bush's attorney, said Wednesday.

The NCAA declined to comment on its investigation, except to ask that anyone with information regarding the allegations against Bush and his family speak with them. The NCAA has interviewed numerous sources in the matter, including USC coaches and officials and business associates directly and indirectly involved with Bush.

Yahoo! Sports has learned that LaMar Griffin spoke with federal investigators in the spring of 2006 and acknowledged the existence of the tapes. In an appearance before a grand jury on Jan. 12, 2007, Lake's mother – Barbara Gunner – testified that she had heard portions of tapes made by her son, in which LaMar Griffin states that Bush intended to repay New Era Sports financiers "their money," as well as for a car that was purchased for the former USC running back.

Multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports that Lake made the tapes in late 2005 to protect his financial investment if Bush backed out of their alleged agreement. New Era's goal of landing Bush as a client officially failed when Bush signed to be represented by agent Joel Segal and marketing agent Mike Ornstein in January of 2005.

Lake and Michaels told Yahoo! Sports in April 2006 that Bush and his family agreed to be partners in New Era Sports in 2004, then backed out of the venture after accepting the finances Lake and Michaels provided as part of the deal. The bulk of the benefits Lake and Michaels claim they gave to Bush and his family – including direct cash payments, rent-free living in a new home, paying off credit card debt and money for a car for Bush – were allegedly provided over a one-year period starting in late 2004.

In April 2006, Yahoo! Sports first revealed allegations that Bush and his family received extra benefits, including $54,000 in rent-free living at Michaels' $757,500 home in Spring Valley, Calif., according to Michaels and San Diego attorney Brian Watkins.

Yahoo! Sports also reported the Bush family received $28,000 from New Era financiers to settle pre-existing debt, according to Michaels and Watkins. Yahoo! Sports also reported that Bush received approximately $18,000 to purchase and upgrade a car while he was still a student at USC.

On Sept. 14, 2006, Yahoo! Sports published findings of an ongoing investigation that revealed that Bush and his family appeared to have accepted benefits worth more than $100,000 from two groups of marketing agents. The report came after Yahoo! Sports reviewed multiple travel records, documents and receipts. In addition to Lake and Michaels, extra benefits appear to have been supplied by Ornstein, Bush's current marketing agent.

NCAA by-law 12.3.1.2 states that an athlete shall be deemed ineligible if he or she accepts benefits from agents or marketing representatives. The rule further states that student-athletes, their family or friends cannot receive benefits or loans from agents. Additionally, NCAA by-law 12.1.2.1.6 states that athletes cannot receive preferential treatment, benefits or services because of the individual's athletics reputation or skill or pay-back potential as a professional athlete, unless such treatment, benefits or services are specifically permitted under NCAA legislation.

Cornwell responded to the initial reports in April by claiming that Bush and his family were victims of an extortion plot. Cornwell eventually spoke with federal authorities about the matter, claiming that Lake and Michaels tried to coerce Bush into paying the money. Griffin then told a federal investigator that Lake threatened to make the tapes public if the money was not repaid.

Gunner and Lake's former girlfriend, Maiesha Jones, have both testified before the grand jury. Lake's sister, Lisa Lake, voluntarily spoke with federal investigators. Gunner explained to the grand jury that she provided at least $60,000 to her son to help finance the business. According to a source close to the case, Jones told the grand jury about the business relationship between Lloyd Lake, Michaels and Bush.

The extortion probe has produced no formal charges. Lloyd Lake was recently released from a one-year prison term for a parole violation in conjunction with a previous drug-related conviction. If brought up on extortion charges, he could face a maximum two-year sentence. He also faces a domestic violence charge in California from an incident with Jones.

Bush just completed his rookie NFL season, helping the Saints reach the NFC championship game for the first time in team history. Bush had 565 yards rushing on 155 carries this season and had 88 receptions for 742 yards after being the No. 2 overall pick in the 2006 draft. He scored nine touchdowns in the regular season.

Bush has said that he and his family did nothing wrong in regard to the allegations of receiving extra benefits. Bush has not talked to federal investigators in the extortion probe. He also has not cooperated with the investigation by the NCAA, which does not have subpoena power.

According to a report first published by Foxsports.com, Bush requested a sideline pass from his alma mater for the 2007 Rose Bowl but USC declined, stating that it had already distributed its allotment of VIP passes.

USC coach Pete Carroll was questioned about Bush's absence from the Rose Bowl on a Los Angeles radio program on Jan. 2, the morning after the game. Radio host and Los Angeles Times columnist T.J. Simers asked Carroll: "You saw the reports that Reggie was told not to come to the Rose Bowl, to stay away from USC. Do you buy that? Do you have anything to do with that?"

Responded Carroll: "No. I know that through this investigation, because he's not cooperating the way theyd like it, theres some issues about that. Reggie gets to do whatever he wants to do. He's not part of us anymore and we can't control any of that. But there's some, I think some opinions from the NCAA that they're mad at Reggie. And, you know, they would not like him to be associated with us. But I don't know what's going on with all that. But there is some stuff.

"I did call Reggie and he didn't hear from anybody about any of that kind of stuff. We're just going to keep working along the best we can and try to keep our head above water and do the right thing and stay out of that stuff. But that stuff, it is kind of nasty. You just don't know where it's coming from and people are out to get you. It can get kind of hard."

OUinFLA
1/24/2007, 08:36 PM
so if they take the Heisman away from him.......
do they give it to the number 2 heisman finalist?
I cant remember was that.............oh, no!

AlbqSooner
1/24/2007, 08:57 PM
Veeeely Interestink.

FaninAma
1/24/2007, 08:59 PM
"I did call Reggie and he didn't hear from anybody about any of that kind of stuff. We're just going to keep working along the best we can and try to keep our head above water and do the right thing and stay out of that stuff. But that stuff, it is kind of nasty. You just don't know where it's coming from and people are out to get you. It can get kind of hard."
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
I think this is why Carrol and USC will get slammed by the NCAA. Carrol, in contrast to the way Bob handled the Bomar situation, sems to want to bury his head in the sand and not take responsibilty for or be proactive in monitoring what his players are/were doing. The USC program skated by with Williams, Jarret and others but I think their hands off approach is going to bite them in the *** this time.

This whole mess screams "Lack of Institutional Control.".

SoCal
1/24/2007, 09:00 PM
Bush, Bush's Parents, Petey, USC, Agents, the NCAA...all are scum bags. I hope they all get screwed before this things over!:mad:

BOOMERBRADLEY
1/24/2007, 09:04 PM
BomarGate = ReggieGate ?

Give or take a couple hundred thousand G's

Stitch Face
1/24/2007, 09:50 PM
Pete Carroll should be fined for saying "stuff" that many times in one sentence.

Dude, get a thesaurus.

Sooner-N-KS
1/24/2007, 10:06 PM
If such taped conversations involving Bush become public, Bush and USC could face penalties from the NCAA and Pacific-10 Conference, which are conducting ongoing investigations into reports of extra benefits.


Penalties from the Pac 10 = suspension of Bush from USC for one game while making him sit next to Gordon Riese

Sooner-N-KS
1/24/2007, 10:10 PM
What does Pete Carroll know? Talk about not having control of his organization. Can you imagine if Stoops acted like he knew so little about whats going on?

oumartin
1/24/2007, 10:18 PM
so does this mean they will claim another NC?
I will say there are only a few programs that can get away with something like this.
USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Florida State.
We may think they are out for OU but most programs would get slammed for this.

MojoRisen
1/24/2007, 10:59 PM
so does this mean they will claim another NC?
I will say there are only a few programs that can get away with something like this.
USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Florida State.
We may think they are out for OU but most programs would get slammed for this.


if that be the norm of NCCAA national commnuist against athetetes? I would say loook elswere (or expect an uprising!) We at oklahoma will expect to win and feel not settled for a mockery of our right to fight toooooo party aaaaaaa......

Lets win the big one- over conservatism does not allow us too kill~ hit em and hit them hard====== please!

possumfat
1/24/2007, 11:06 PM
this could get real ugly for USC.............OU's deal is nothing compared to where the USC situation could end up.

TripleOption14
1/24/2007, 11:11 PM
The key word to the ENTIRE situation is "COULD!!!!!" "Evidence that COULD confirm......." Nothing happens until everything is confirmed and found to be true.

oumartin
1/24/2007, 11:13 PM
or buried and just swept under the rug..
tends to be the norm at USC and the NCAA

Easting
1/25/2007, 12:15 AM
The key word to the ENTIRE situation is "COULD!!!!!" "Evidence that COULD confirm......." Nothing happens until everything is confirmed and found to be true.

You are right. But--if incriminating tapes exist and are handed over--USC will see a mass exodus of their players and recruits as they receive the death penalty.

Fraggle145
1/25/2007, 01:42 AM
You are right. But--if incriminating tapes exist and are handed over--USC will see a mass exodus of their players and recruits as they receive the death penalty.

We can only hope...

Crucifax Autumn
1/25/2007, 01:55 AM
As much as my Sooner pride BEGS me to say otherwise...

Screw 'em...give the Heisman and the National Championship to us.

Alabama would do it, Texass would claim a tie and buy some rings.

oumartin
1/25/2007, 02:49 AM
Alabama already claims the NC from that year.

oumartin
1/25/2007, 05:43 AM
Bush taunting Urlacher was about as classless as it gets too.. I bet Urlacher does not forget that...

TripleOption14
1/25/2007, 06:47 AM
Another thing too is it will be unfortunate that Reggie Bush himself will not get punished. Right now he's just sitting back laughing (after an EXCELLENT rookie year i might add) and saying "Oh well." Kinda doesn't seem right.

AlbqSooner
1/25/2007, 07:22 AM
Urlcaher has class. He will probably forget it and go on. Others who watched it may not.

arcman46
1/25/2007, 09:06 AM
Bush taunting Urlacher was about as classless as it gets too.. I bet Urlacher does not forget that...

Urlacher is liable to Jack Reggie up the next time they meet.:D

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/25/2007, 09:22 AM
Another thing too is it will be unfortunate that Reggie Bush himself will not get punished. Right now he's just sitting back laughing (after an EXCELLENT rookie year i might add) and saying "Oh well." Kinda doesn't seem right.


Bush might not nearly get the punishment he deserves to get but he will get punished. Presuming the reports about the tapes are true he can kiss his Heisman Trophy goodbye. He might keep the actual trophy but I will guarantee you it will be stripped and then go to (GULP) the person it should have gone to in the first place. I'm sure he will still get some endorsements but this won't help in that area either.

As for USC. They are in HUGE TROUBLE if this turns out being true. Pete might try to play the ignorance card but the best that will do will make him look like he has no control over his team. If it comes out that he might have had knowledge of what went down USC could get SMUed.

In the least as soon as this makes it through a news cycle or two you will see some recuits having second thoughts.

:pop: :pop: :pop: :pop:

C&CDean
1/25/2007, 10:12 AM
Like my momma always said "what goes around, comes around."

Beef
1/25/2007, 10:25 AM
Like my momma always said "what goes around, comes around."
I had a cellmate that said the same thing.

Redshirt
1/25/2007, 10:28 AM
Recruits having second thoughts? Never.

colleyvillesooner
1/25/2007, 10:30 AM
Bush might not nearly get the punishment he deserves to get but he will get punished. Presuming the reports about the tapes are true he can kiss his Heisman Trophy goodbye. He might keep the actual trophy but I will guarantee you it will be stripped and then go to (GULP) the person it should have gone to in the first place. I'm sure he will still get some endorsements but this won't help in that area either.

As for USC. They are in HUGE TROUBLE if this turns out being true. Pete might try to play the ignorance card but the best that will do will make him look like he has no control over his team. If it comes out that he might have had knowledge of what went down USC could get SMUed.

In the least as soon as this makes it through a news cycle or two you will see some recuits having second thoughts.

:pop: :pop: :pop: :pop:

The heisman would not go to Vince. They don't have to award it to anybody. It will be a vacated year.

And no way they get SMU'd.

OUDoc
1/25/2007, 10:40 AM
And no way they get SMU'd.
That'll never happen again.

Vic n Tulsa
1/25/2007, 10:43 AM
The heisman would not go to Vince. They don't have to award it to anybody. It will be a vacated year.

And no way they get SMU'd.


So what you are saying, is OU would be awarded the NC for that year, but the Heisman would be vacated because it would go to VY???

Beef
1/25/2007, 10:56 AM
That'll never happen again.
If 'Bama didn't get it the last time they got probation, then no one will.

TexasLidig8r
1/25/2007, 10:56 AM
So what you are saying, is OU would be awarded the NC for that year, but the Heisman would be vacated because it would go to VY???

NC would go to Auburn or there would be none for that year.

Vince has already said he doesn't want the Heisman.

bcgvh
1/25/2007, 10:59 AM
If the NCAA finds him guilty then they'd have no choice but to take away the NC title and the Heisman by rule, right? He would be ineligible, and every game Bush played in since 2004 would have to be forfeited. But since most of us agree that will never happen, you can only assume that the NCAA will conclude in saying something like, "we have insufficient evidence to support the case against Bush and USC," in which nothing would happen at all to Reggie or SC. I think it's all or nothing.

bcgvh
1/25/2007, 11:01 AM
NC would go to Auburn or there would be none for that year.


That can't be true, OU played in the BCS title game, and USC would be declared ineligible, which would in fact give OU the win. I think we'd have a split title, BCS would HAVE to go to OU, and the AP would probably give it to Auburn.

Beef
1/25/2007, 11:04 AM
NC would go to Auburn or there would be none for that year.

Vince has already said he doesn't want the Heisman.
Didn't Auburn's distinguished coach already claim the NC? Actually, OU would have as much right to claim the MNC as Auburn since the final score of the OU-SUC game would be 2-0, or whatever score they give to forfeits with OU finishing undefeated. I wouldn't be proud of the MNC, but it would be nice to go back in time and play Auburn.

OU James
1/25/2007, 11:04 AM
So how does this work with Bomar?....I know we didn't win anything in '05, but would we be forced to forfeit those games as well?

bcgvh
1/25/2007, 11:07 AM
I don't know, the Bomar situation seems quite different. As soon as OU found out about it they booted him. USC didn't do anything about it and you know at some point they had to have known about what was going on.

colleyvillesooner
1/25/2007, 11:13 AM
So what you are saying, is OU would be awarded the NC for that year, but the Heisman would be vacated because it would go to VY???

Let's go back and re-read what I said, and please point out where I mentioned ANYTHING about the NC.

jeremy885
1/25/2007, 11:13 AM
So how does this work with Bomar?....I know we didn't win anything in '05, but would we be forced to forfeit those games as well?


OU would have to forfeit every game he played in after he was paid for work he didn't do.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/25/2007, 11:18 AM
So what you are saying, is OU would be awarded the NC for that year, but the Heisman would be vacated because it would go to VY???

I'm just guessing but I think VY would get the Heisman.

The title likely would be award to OU whether we think we deserve it or not. I think iT would be generally accepted as Auburn's title but it would officially be an OU BCS championship. We could do the aggie thing and have a parade the day the ruling comes down.:D

I don't think that USC will be SMUed and you are probably right that if it didn't happped to Baylor in hoops after obstruction of justice in a murder investigation then it probably won't happen anywhere.

Presuming that the reports are true and yahoo has the goods requiring the feds to dig deep and then the NCAA has to act it basically means one of two things:

1. USC coaches, including Carroll knew enough of what was going to at least be implicit in covering it up and not dealing with it in which case I think USC gets major probation, and Carroll and possibly other coaches might get suspended from coaching at the college level for a period of times, maybe several years.

2. This went down without Carroll or the University having specific knowledge of it due to negligence or having the investigative skills of a 6-year old. In which case the follow up question that has to be asked is "What compliance program does the university have and the coaching staff have in place to ensure that players aren't getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in improper benefits?" If they can't answer that question then that falls into the "lack of institutional control" category and the University still is in trouble though I doubt the coaches get much of a penalty other than looking like a bunch of clowns. USC probably gets probation though much less major than in #1.

Now case 1 is much more difficult to prove than case 2 and Pete and Co can probably play the Sgt Schultz defense enough that I don't think the coaches get in direct trouble. That defense doesn't work at all though for case #2.

stoopified
1/25/2007, 11:18 AM
so does this mean they will claim another NC?
I will say there are only a few programs that can get away with something like this.
USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Florida State.
We may think they are out for OU but most programs would get slammed for this.
You forgot Texas and Nebraska on your list of UNTOUCHALES.:D

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:27 AM
Bush taunting Urlacher was about as classless as it gets too.. I bet Urlacher does not forget that...

I agree. But Urlacher ended up with the last laugh anyway.

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:29 AM
Another thing too is it will be unfortunate that Reggie Bush himself will not get punished. Right now he's just sitting back laughing (after an EXCELLENT rookie year i might add) and saying "Oh well." Kinda doesn't seem right.

The only punishment that could be handed out to Reggie would be to have him return the Heisman. Hell, he doesn't need it anymore since he got the big contract.

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:33 AM
As for USC. They are in HUGE TROUBLE if this turns out being true. Pete might try to play the ignorance card but the best that will do will make him look like he has no control over his team. If it comes out that he might have had knowledge of what went down USC could get SMUed.

Pete had better play the ignorance card. He'd be in less trouble for "lack of institutional control" than he would be for having preexisting knowledge and doing nothing.

I don't think anyone will ever get the "death penalty" again. It took SMU decades to recover. The NCAA would NEVER do that to USC.

OU James
1/25/2007, 11:35 AM
Pete had better play the ignorance card. He'd be in less trouble for "lack of institutional control" than he would be for having preexisting knowledge and doing nothing.

I don't think anyone will ever get the "death penalty" again. It took SMU decades to recover. The NCAA would NEVER do that to USC.

If I were petey, I'd start looking hard at the NFL jobs. It would be a dick move, but he should bolt for his own good, before the sh*t hits the fan.

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:35 AM
NC would go to Auburn or there would be none for that year.

Vince has already said he doesn't want the Heisman.

The NC would not go to Auburn. If USC were forced to forfeit all of the games Reggie played in, they'd also have to forfeit the NC game to OU.

As for the Heisman, Vinnie lied. You could clearly see the disappointment on his face when they said Reggie's name.

TheUnnamedSooner
1/25/2007, 11:39 AM
As for the Heisman, Vinnie lied. You could clearly see the disappointment on his face when they said Reggie's name.

I'm sure he wanted it then, but I doubt he would want it under these circumstances. The same reason we don't want the mnc

soonerspudman
1/25/2007, 11:40 AM
The real outrage here is that now we have to watch the the Disney machine and other media along with the NCAA provide smoke-in-your-eyes over this debacle because of the huge dollars involved with SC as the largest market team west of the Mississippi. As Barry always said "different rules for different people" and that's how it works with teams like SC. WERE THIS OU, THE MEDIA WOULD BE CALLING FOR THE DEATH PENALTY FOR OU'S FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Look for SC to get some type or reprimand, maybe lose a couple of scholarships at worst, possibly just go on some type of NCAA-contrived double-secret probation.

What's worse, you know where there's smoke there's fire, and that SC has been hoarding all top recruits for a reason - money. However, likely expect a light sentance from the NCAA, then they'll go look for an OU or some other southwest/southern mid-market school to hammer and claim they've "cleaned up" college football. What a bunch of crap...

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:42 AM
OU would have to forfeit every game he played in after he was paid for work he didn't do.

We COULD have to forfeit, not necessarily WOULD have to. I don't think it would come to that based on the magnitude of Bomar's transgression and the immediate steps by Stoops to rectify it.

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:46 AM
I'm sure he wanted it then, but I doubt he would want it under these circumstances. The same reason we don't want the mnc

Surely you jest!

Vinnie would take the Heisman and we'd take the NC and smile doing it.

The NCAA could merely strip Reggie and USC of their rewards and not give them to the next in line but, in my opinion, that would punish others also for Reggie's and Pete's transgressions. If the Heisman were to go to Vinnie and the NC to OU, it would send a clearer message than merely stripping Reggie and USC.

Texas Golfer
1/25/2007, 11:48 AM
The real outrage here is that now we have to watch the the Disney machine and other media along with the NCAA provide smoke-in-your-eyes over this debacle because of the huge dollars involved with SC as the largest market team west of the Mississippi. As Barry always said "different rules for different people" and that's how it works with teams like SC. WERE THIS OU, THE MEDIA WOULD BE CALLING FOR THE DEATH PENALTY FOR OU'S FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Look for SC to get some type or reprimand, maybe lose a couple of scholarships at worst, possibly just go on some type of NCAA-contrived double-secret probation.

What's worse, you know where there's smoke there's fire, and that SC has been hoarding all top recruits for a reason - money. However, likely expect a light sentance from the NCAA, then they'll go look for an OU or some other southwest/southern mid-market school to hammer and claim they've "cleaned up" college football. What a bunch of crap...

I would really like to be able to say that you're wrong but I can't. I agree.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/25/2007, 11:50 AM
The real outrage here is that now we have to watch the the Disney machine and other media along with the NCAA provide smoke-in-your-eyes over this debacle because of the huge dollars involved with SC as the largest market team west of the Mississippi. As Barry always said "different rules for different people" and that's how it works with teams like SC. WERE THIS OU, THE MEDIA WOULD BE CALLING FOR THE DEATH PENALTY FOR OU'S FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Look for SC to get some type or reprimand, maybe lose a couple of scholarships at worst, possibly just go on some type of NCAA-contrived double-secret probation.

What's worse, you know where there's smoke there's fire, and that SC has been hoarding all top recruits for a reason - money. However, likely expect a light sentance from the NCAA, then they'll go look for an OU or some other southwest/southern mid-market school to hammer and claim they've "cleaned up" college football. What a bunch of crap...


Agree with you entirely on the double standard but I also think that the media including ESPN would turn on USC in an instant if it became in their best interest. If it gets ratings on their radio shows and on sportscenter then you will bet ESPN won't let the story go. The question is whether not the story will get critical mass that it is front page news nationwide and they hop on the bandwagon.

I'd bet you if the Saints had made the Super Bowl Bush would have been followed by reporters like the paparazzi.

Of course had it not been for someone at Yahoo there might not even be a story at all.

47straight
1/25/2007, 12:03 PM
As far as the Heisman goes, that is the downtown athletic club's deal, and not the NCAA. If the club decides to rescind the award, then they can. I don't see where the NCAA has the power to strip an award given by a third party, they simply do not have the authority.

And since the downtown athletic club didn't strip the trophy from another notorious USC winner - Orenthal - I don't see where they would start now.

TexasLidig8r
1/25/2007, 12:05 PM
And since the downtown athletic club didn't strip the trophy from another notorious USC winner - Orenthal - I don't see where they would start now.

But.. OJ was innocent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

soonernation
1/25/2007, 12:14 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA has nothing to do with the national title in football. It is strictly a writers and coaches poll issue. Can those polls go back and take the titles away?

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/25/2007, 12:31 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA has nothing to do with the national title in football. It is strictly a writers and coaches poll issue. Can those polls go back and take the titles away?

Are you asking if the one or more of the polls might go back and changed their results independant of the NCAA investigation? They might but I doubt it. I think the NCAA investigation would probably lead the way and then the resulting publicity, public opinion might move enough media members to push for changing results. Otherwise my guess there wouldn't be a compelling reason for others to do anythings.

My guess is the AP, Coaches, etc probably wouldn't do anything and that the Bowl Championship Series would vacate the NC and/or award it to the #2 team OU.

I'm really a whole lot less interested in what is done retroactively than what is done in the future in terms of probation. We might get awarded the title and it is ours whether we claim it or not but I doubt we will be added 2004 to the Stadium.

buffalobill989
1/25/2007, 12:44 PM
But.. OJ was innocent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes he was!!!!!!!!;)

TripleOption14
1/25/2007, 12:44 PM
The heisman would not go to Vince. They don't have to award it to anybody. It will be a vacated year.

And no way they get SMU'd.

They may not get SMU'd but couldn't they get Bama'd!!! :D

SoonerStormchaser
1/25/2007, 01:19 PM
Bama'd...yes.

SMU'd...not a snowball's chance in hell.

OUfan7
1/25/2007, 01:50 PM
I will believe it when I see it. USC might get a slap on the wrist at best, maybe one less Hollywood star on the sidelines for one game.

OK2LA
1/25/2007, 02:04 PM
BomarGate = ReggieGate ?

Give or take a couple hundred thousand G's


That's like a hundred million dollars - did he take that much?!?

OK2LA
1/25/2007, 02:07 PM
or buried and just swept under the rug..
tends to be the norm at USC and the NCAA

I heard he took a job with teh Titans, but he could be involved as well! Good point.

Ike
1/25/2007, 02:09 PM
a couple of points:
a) the language in the subpoena seems to indicate that IF these guys have taped conversations, those tapes should be handed over. It gives no indication that anyone outside of the people involved know of the existence of any tapes related to this case. Which to my mind would seem like standard operating procedure for an investigation....which probably means that there aren't any tapes.

b) While the NCAA could declare him ineligible, they have no say over the heisman or the Orange bowl outcomes. Those would have to be overturned by separate bodies if the situation warrants any action by the NCAA.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/25/2007, 02:41 PM
a couple of points:
a) the language in the subpoena seems to indicate that IF these guys have taped conversations, those tapes should be handed over. It gives no indication that anyone outside of the people involved know of the existence of any tapes related to this case. Which to my mind would seem like standard operating procedure for an investigation....which probably means that there aren't any tapes.

b) While the NCAA could declare him ineligible, they have no say over the heisman or the Orange bowl outcomes. Those would have to be overturned by separate bodies if the situation warrants any action by the NCAA.


The article says though that the agent admitted that the tapes exist.

Yahoo! Sports has learned that LaMar Griffin spoke with federal investigators in the spring of 2006 and acknowledged the existence of the tapes. In an appearance before a grand jury on Jan. 12, 2007, Lake's mother – Barbara Gunner – testified that she had heard portions of tapes made by her son, in which LaMar Griffin states that Bush intended to repay New Era Sports financiers "their money," as well as for a car that was purchased for the former USC running back.

Multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports that Lake made the tapes in late 2005 to protect his financial investment if Bush backed out of their alleged agreement. New Era's goal of landing Bush as a client officially failed when Bush signed to be represented by agent Joel Segal and marketing agent Mike Ornstein in January of 2006.

Of course if there are no tapes then the story might get swept under the rug. Since we are just speculating here how about when the first recording gets leaked and we hear Reggie asking for 300 large? As soon as one bit of recording gets out it will be all over the place.