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Okla-homey
1/17/2007, 10:09 PM
Two days now with no mail. I would like to point out, for the record, my newspaper delivery d00d has not skipped a beat.

"Neither Rain nor Snow nor Dark of Night..." right. And on Benjamin Franklin's birthday to boot (first US Postmaster General.) I bet Ben would be kicking some serious letter carrier tail if he were still in charge.

losers.

...and don't allege its because I had no mail. My little mailbox flag is still up from Monday... beyotch.

Sooner_Havok
1/17/2007, 10:11 PM
My mail man is still wearing shorts sleeves shirts...He does has those slip on spikes though

Sooner_Havok
1/17/2007, 10:12 PM
Plus it doesn't say that the earth turning into one big freakin skating rink won't stop them.

Czar Soonerov
1/17/2007, 10:13 PM
IBTL

:dean:

royalfan5
1/17/2007, 10:16 PM
The USPS in Nebraska always delievered to our rural area even in brutal storms. I'm kind of surprised you're USPS let you down.

Sooner_Havok
1/17/2007, 10:22 PM
Homey's Mail Man:

http://www.furlongspetsupply.com/images/Fat%20Cat%20Postal%20Plaything.jpg

soonerboomer93
1/17/2007, 11:06 PM
I got mail yesterday

Just over 1 week for an air mail package to get here

and it was a whole $4.00 to have it sent

good jorb USPS

Sooner_Havok
1/17/2007, 11:52 PM
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL529/4334798/9135862/137893797.jpg

soonerboomer93
1/17/2007, 11:57 PM
for who?

Sooner_Havok
1/17/2007, 11:59 PM
You know, I am not to sure??? Why did I post that in this thread?

soonerboomer93
1/18/2007, 12:00 AM
um, you got too high?

I have no clue

landrun
1/18/2007, 12:03 AM
Two days now with no mail. I would like to point out, for the record, my newspaper delivery d00d has not skipped a beat.

"Neither Rain nor Snow nor Dark of Night..." right. And on Benjamin Franklin's birthday to boot (first US Postmaster General.) I bet Ben would be kicking some serious letter carrier tail if he were still in charge.

losers.

...and don't allege its because I had no mail. My little mailbox flag is still up from Monday... beyotch.

Union employees ...
Just be grateful you get it on most days. :D

Sooner_Havok
1/18/2007, 12:07 AM
Preemptive Sarcasm Meter?

olevetonahill
1/18/2007, 12:16 AM
Ex wife, Just be grateful you get it twice a year
And I said yes dear :rolleyes:

SoonerTerry
1/18/2007, 12:45 AM
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL529/4334798/9135862/137893797.jpg
thats a good Idea, got one in smiley size?

Sooner_Havok
1/18/2007, 12:55 AM
You Know, I just might, hold on

http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/thumbnails/5/sarcasmmeter.jpg

I didn't have to write hold on did I?

Preservation Parcels
1/18/2007, 09:00 AM
Two days now with no mail. I would like to point out, for the record, my newspaper delivery d00d has not skipped a beat.

"Neither Rain nor Snow nor Dark of Night..." right. And on Benjamin Franklin's birthday to boot (first US Postmaster General.) I bet Ben would be kicking some serious letter carrier tail if he were still in charge.

losers.

...and don't allege its because I had no mail. My little mailbox flag is still up from Monday... beyotch.

Homey,

I hope you get a boatload of delayed birthday cards today. Your birthday continues as long as it takes for the last card to get there. Celebrate long and well!

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 09:58 AM
Homeslice,

If your story is true, you better be calling the local postmaster/station manager ASAP. Somebody is flogging the dog up there. Mail is delivered by float plane/snowmobile/dogsled/snowshoe wearing sumbitch if it has to be. Let me know the name of the station that serves your house. Heads. Will. Roll.

FaninAma
1/18/2007, 10:02 AM
Homeslice,

If your story is true, you better be calling the local postmaster/station manager ASAP. Somebody is flogging the dog up there. Mail is delivered by float plane/snowmobile/dogsled/snowshoe wearing sumbitch if it has to be. Let me know the name of the station that serves your house. Heads. Will. Roll.

Dean=Don Corleone of the Norman USPS. :D

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 10:03 AM
Fuhgetaboutit.

Mjcpr
1/18/2007, 10:15 AM
Well, it's my job and I'm pretty damn serious about it.

http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/images/WilfordBrimley.jpg

sooneron
1/18/2007, 10:17 AM
Did you forget to tip the letter carrier at Chrismannukah?

TUSooner
1/18/2007, 10:31 AM
BTW, the saying is: "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.” It's from the Greek historian Herodotus (484 -c.425 BC) and refers to the post riders of King Xerxes of Persia. It's engraved on the old NYC post office building that opened in 1914.

You're welcome !! :)

Mjcpr
1/18/2007, 10:33 AM
I didn't get mail on Tuesday but I did yesterday.

And the trash men showed up this morning too....THAT has to be a fun job considering what ALL of the neighborhood side streets look like.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 10:34 AM
BTW, the saying is: "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.” It's from the Greek historian Herodotus (484 -c.425 BC) and refers to the post riders of King Xerxes of Persia. It's engraved on the old NYC post office building that opened in 1914.

You're welcome !! :)

Gawd I hate that PO. It's a very cool building, and I've done a lot of training there. Problem is, it's staffed by.......New Yorkers.

sooneron
1/18/2007, 10:45 AM
Gawd I hate that PO. It's a very cool building, and I've done a lot of training there. Problem is, it's staffed by.......New Yorkers.
It won't be around much longer.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 10:47 AM
It won't be around much longer.

Why?

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 10:49 AM
Gawd I hate that PO. It's a very cool building, and I've done a lot of training there. Problem is, it's staffed by.......New Yorkers.

I guess that means they move too fast for you damn slow *** okies

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 10:56 AM
I guess that means they move too fast for you damn slow *** okies

No, it means they're rude, obnoxious, impersonal, pushy, miserable, and they talk like their mouth is full of cement.

sooneron
1/18/2007, 10:57 AM
Why?
There has been a lot of talk about making Penn station like Grand Central - fancy and old and such. The real estate is too boocoup for an entire city block for a PO. They could re-establish the old Penn Station where the PO is, the tracks are still underneath it, along with platforms.

The building is beautiful, though.

old article,

http://www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/NEWS/9803/06/penn.station/

but the way that the ball gets going up here, par for the course, see the WTC memorial

sooneron
1/18/2007, 10:58 AM
No, it means they're rude, obnoxious, impersonal, slow, miserable,
Fixed! and I thought that was ALL postal employees!!!??:D :D :D :D

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:01 AM
There has been a lot of talk about making Penn station like Grand Central - fancy and old and such. The real estate is too boocoup for an entire city block for a PO. They could re-establish the old Penn Station where the PO is, the tracks are still underneath it, along with platforms.

The building is beautiful, though.

old article,

http://www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/NEWS/9803/06/penn.station/

but the way that the ball gets going up here, par for the course, see the WTC memorial

The USPS owns some of the richest property in the country. The W.F. Bolger Center in Potomac, MD, sits on about 80+ acres of prime property that the USPS bought from a bunch of nuns back in the 60's. They paid peanuts for it, and today it's worth well over $1M per acre. And that's just for the land.

And I doubt the USPS would give up that property unless NYC gives them mo'betta digs.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:02 AM
Fixed! and I thought that was ALL postal employees!!!??:D :D :D :D

In NYC for sure. I've seriously never met more sour-pusses anywhere in the country.

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 11:03 AM
No, it means they're rude, obnoxious, impersonal, pushy, miserable, and they talk like their mouth is full of cement.

so essentially they are much like oklahomans except they don't pretend to be nice, personal, happy, and talk like backwooded rednecks...check, gotcha

Mjcpr
1/18/2007, 11:06 AM
so essentially they are much like oklahomans except they don't pretend to be nice, personal, happy, and talk like backwooded rednecks...check, gotcha

I have you in today's meltdown pool. So, rock on.

:D

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 11:08 AM
well, when I'm essentially holed up for a full freakin week because the city has shut down because they cannot properly prepare for winter weather, then you would be in meltdown mode too...

NormanPride
1/18/2007, 11:10 AM
so essentially they are much like oklahomans except they don't pretend to be nice, personal, happy, and talk like backwooded rednecks...check, gotcha

You know, when your life doesn't suck, you don't have to pretend. :)

sooneron
1/18/2007, 11:12 AM
The USPS owns some of the richest property in the country. The W.F. Bolger Center in Potomac, MD, sits on about 80+ acres of prime property that the USPS bought from a bunch of nuns back in the 60's. They paid peanuts for it, and today it's worth well over $1M per acre. And that's just for the land.

And I doubt the USPS would give up that property unless NYC gives them mo'betta digs.
Supposedly, they aren't giving up all of it, just the pretty front thirdof the building part. Plus, I believe a bulk of the work is done caddy corner on 10th and 31st? Where they occupy another 2 city blocks. No?

I take that back, it's two friggin city blocks big! I forgot that 32nd street does not go through PennSt/MSG and the PO.

sooneron
1/18/2007, 11:14 AM
You know, when your life doesn't suck, you don't have to pretend. :)
Actually, I have figured out why NY'ers can be so miserable. It's a domino effect. You come into contact with one *******, you become gruff and thus, prolly interact with another 2K people on a daily basis and so on and so on. It's basically one person that causes it.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:18 AM
well, when I'm essentially holed up for a full freakin week because the city has shut down because they cannot properly prepare for winter weather, then you would be in meltdown mode too...

No, we wouldn't be in melt down mode. Why? Because we're not rude, obnoxious, impatient, and assume that nice people are just faking it.

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 11:19 AM
Actually, I have figured out why NY'ers can be so miserable. It's a domino effect. You come into contact with one *******, you become gruff and thus, prolly interact with another 2K people on a daily basis and so on and so on. It's basically one person that causes it.

Ron - honestly I don't think they are all that different than anyone else...problem here is there is a "fake" niceness, a facade if you will - where in NY (or in more densely populated areas) you don't feel the need to be talkative to the stranger because you are around strangers so much - here (or more precisely in more rural/suburban areas) I think there is more of a need for interaction - hence the being more "friendly"...but essentially, people are ***-holes all over

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:19 AM
Actually, I have figured out why NY'ers can be so miserable. It's a domino effect. You come into contact with one *******, you become gruff and thus, prolly interact with another 2K people on a daily basis and so on and so on. It's basically one person that causes it.

Heh. And there's truth here. I've discovered that most NYers I've dealt with are pretty decent people - after you knock off the crust that comes from dealing with the whole NYC scene.

sooneron
1/18/2007, 11:20 AM
Ron - honestly I don't think they are all that different than anyone else...problem here is there is a "fake" niceness, a facade if you will - where in NY (or in more densely populated areas) you don't feel the need to be talkative to the stranger because you are around strangers so much - here (or more precisely in more rural/suburban areas) I think there is more of a need for interaction - hence the being more "friendly"...but essentially, people are ***-holes all over
Not that I disagree with you, but....

:pop:

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 11:20 AM
No, we wouldn't be in melt down mode. Why? Because we're not rude, obnoxious, impatient, and assume that nice people are just faking it.

I've been back here long enough to realize the fakeness of the exclamation that "we are so much nicer than people up north, right?" - the fact that people actually ask that stupid *** question lets me know how fake the niceties really are

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:20 AM
hence the being more "friendly"...but essentially, people are ***-holes all over

This is exactly why people hate NYers.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:22 AM
Seriously dude, why not move back up there to that ****hole? If everybody here is an *******, fake, phoney, etc? It sure can't be the $$ that's keeping you here since afterall, we're pretty much just all broke hillbillies.

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 11:22 AM
C&C - you are correct that people here aren't "impatient" - but that is because everyone is so damn slow at doing things!

NYSooner1355
1/18/2007, 11:24 AM
This is exactly why people hate NYers.

dude, if your true persona is anything like your internet persona, you should fit right in NY (according to your general description of them)...not sure why you hate them/us so...

NormanPride
1/18/2007, 11:28 AM
This is a really amusing conversation.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 11:46 AM
dude, if your true persona is anything like your internet persona, you should fit right in NY (according to your general description of them)...not sure why you hate them/us so...

OK. I'll explain it. But I'm warning you, it's gonna be slow and you probably don't have the patience for it.

Generally speaking, NYers are ****ing *******s. Outwardly. To other people. And they do it because everybody else does. It's the only way you can survive when you're surrounded by 10 million other ****ing *******s.

Generally speaking, Okies are decent folks. Outwardly. To other people. And they do it because everybody else does. It's the only way you can survive when you're surrounded by a couple hundred thousand other decent people.

When's the last time somebody in NYC waved to you driving down the road? When's the last time somebody in NYC let you merge into traffic? When's the last time somebody in NYC looked you in the eye in a grocery store and said "good morning?" When's the last time somebody in NYC cracked a ****ing smile?

No dude, people ain't the same everywhere. We're all products of our surroundings. I've had the pleasure/displeasure of travelling all over this country for the past couple decades. I've had an opportunity to see the very best and the very worst this USA has to offer. GENERALLY SPEAKING, there's more ****ing *******s on a street corner in NYC than there are in the entire city of Yukon, USA. And like I mentioned before, most NYers have a decent core, they're just covered up with all the feces that living in that God-forsaken ****hole dumps all over them.

sooneron
1/18/2007, 12:05 PM
When's the last time somebody in NYC waved to you driving down the road?]
To be honest if everyone waved to one another whilst driving in NYC, the orthopedic docs wouldn't get a moment's rest.

C&CDean
1/18/2007, 12:08 PM
To be honest if everyone waved to one another whilst driving in NYC, the orthopedic docs wouldn't get a moment's rest.

Not true. They do it, only they wave with their middle finger.

I'm always amazed in NYC how people can drive with one hand, honk their horn with the other, and still flip the bird or shake a fist.

sooneron
1/18/2007, 12:18 PM
Not true. They do it, only they wave with their middle finger.

I'm always amazed in NYC how people can drive with one hand, honk their horn with the other, and still flip the bird or shake a fist.
Those are the cab drivers, they can do it b/c they are used to multi tasking whilst cleaning their AK 47s back in the home country.

Okla-homey
1/18/2007, 05:51 PM
Homeslice,

If your story is true, you better be calling the local postmaster/station manager ASAP. Somebody is flogging the dog up there. Mail is delivered by float plane/snowmobile/dogsled/snowshoe wearing sumbitch if it has to be. Let me know the name of the station that serves your house. Heads. Will. Roll.


My zip is 74133. If they haven't been by today, I say Book'em Deano!

Seriously, the satellite office that serves my zip is pretty sketchy. For counter services, we commonly use this contract operation run out of a nearby bank under license by the USPS, because they are much more "customer oriented."

Sooner_Havok
1/18/2007, 09:44 PM
Why the hate for the NYC peeps? They aren't rude, they just don't care one way or another. If anything, I think we can all agree the the Los Angelinos are the ones we should all really hate. They would push you out into oncoming traffic just because they wanted a cheap laugh.

:pop:

TUSooner
1/18/2007, 10:25 PM
My zip is 74133. If they haven't been by today, I say Book'em Deano!

Seriously, the satellite office that serves my zip is pretty sketchy. For counter services, we commonly use this contract operation run out of a nearby bank under license by the USPS, because they are much more "customer oriented."
We're off your mail, now, Homester. It's NY vs the Heartland at the moment. :D

TUSooner
1/18/2007, 10:49 PM
As a former mailman (letter carrier), I have a couple of gripes of my own:


http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1935/newman1qx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7907/ccliff02rx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

sooner_born_1960
1/19/2007, 12:03 AM
I learned everything I know about the postal service from Cliff Claven.

C&CDean
1/19/2007, 09:28 AM
CLIFF!!!

RacerX
1/19/2007, 09:43 AM
Interesting little article here. It says that, uh... the average human being only uses seventeen percent of his brain. Boy, you realize what that means? We don't use a full, uh... sixty-four percent.

RacerX
1/19/2007, 09:44 AM
Well ya see, Norm, it's like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.

RacerX
1/19/2007, 09:46 AM
Did I ever tell you kids about the first Thanksgiving? It took place between the ancient Egyptains and aliens from a distant galaxy.

C&CDean
1/19/2007, 09:48 AM
Somebody watched too much Cheers.

KC//CRIMSON
1/19/2007, 09:49 AM
Two days now with no mail. I would like to point out, for the record, my newspaper delivery d00d has not skipped a beat.

"Neither Rain nor Snow nor Dark of Night..." right. And on Benjamin Franklin's birthday to boot (first US Postmaster General.) I bet Ben would be kicking some serious letter carrier tail if he were still in charge.

losers.

...and don't allege its because I had no mail. My little mailbox flag is still up from Monday... beyotch.


My parents live a few streets over from you and have said the same thing.

RacerX
1/19/2007, 09:51 AM
Everyone in the Swiss Army owns a Swiss Army Knife. That's why no one messes with Switzerland.

OUTromBoNado
1/20/2007, 04:11 PM
I would like to point out that my 58-year old father is a USPS carrier in Tulsa. He's been working 13-hour days since Tuesday and has carried every bit of his route, including parts of other carriers' routes. Yesterday, he was asked to go back out...after working for 13 hours...in the dark...after it's icy...after he hurt his back from falling 10 times...to carry other routes that people either won't or can't finish. He said, "No."

They keep dumping all the crap that nobody will do on him. I just can't get the laziness of some of these mail carriers. They take 12 hours to carry routes that my dad can finish in 8 hours or less...and these guys are literally half my dad's age. And not to mention the fact that my dad isn't familiar with all of their routes, and he can still finish them.

Yesterday, when my dad took over some of the other routes, he deilvered some houses that had not seen mail in over 3 days. My dad's customers love him. They always complain when he goes on vacation.

I'm proud to say I get my work ethic and willingness to go above and beyond to get my jorb done my from my dad.

SicEmBaylor
1/20/2007, 04:13 PM
Can I get an 'amen' for eliminating the USPS entirely?

Okla-homey
1/20/2007, 04:33 PM
I would like to point out that my 58-year old father is a USPS carrier in Tulsa. He's been working 13-hour days since Tuesday and has carried every bit of his route, including parts of other carriers' routes. Yesterday, he was asked to go back out...after working for 13 hours...in the dark...after it's icy...after he hurt his back from falling 10 times...to carry other routes that people either won't or can't finish. He said, "No."

They keep dumping all the crap that nobody will do on him. I just can't get the laziness of some of these mail carriers. They take 12 hours to carry routes that my dad can finish in 8 hours or less...and these guys are literally half my dad's age. And not to mention the fact that my dad isn't familiar with all of their routes, and he can still finish them.

Yesterday, when my dad took over some of the other routes, he deilvered some houses that had not seen mail in over 3 days. My dad's customers love him. They always complain when he goes on vacation.

I'm proud to say I get my work ethic and willingness to go above and beyond to get my jorb done my from my dad.

Good on him. The losers who deliver my mail (when they feel up to it) could learn something from your Pop.

NYSooner1355
1/20/2007, 05:34 PM
I noticed over here the mail carriers drive modified vehicles that are not GOV's - what is with that? Where I lived in NY they were all mail trucks..and I must say, they usually get much worse winter weather than this, and I don't recall anytime not getting the mail...there were many times that plows would come through and essentially bury the mailboxes and the carrier would get out of the vehicle and deliver the mail to the door in those instances (not that he had to - but I guess it is easier to just get rid of the mail he/she has on his truck rather than not deliver it)

tulsaoilerfan
1/20/2007, 07:19 PM
we had 2 days this week where we didn't get mail at all; we were told that the Post Office won't let them work past 5 PM because it starts getting dark; WTF???? I wish i could use that excuse with my Doritos deliveries.

Frozen Sooner
1/20/2007, 07:49 PM
Can I get an 'amen' for eliminating the USPS entirely?

No, you can't. And if you knew anything about the actual logistics of first-class mail, you wouldn't want to either.

The USPS is possibly the best-run government agency in the history of the world. It is also explicitly provided for in the U.S. Constitution.

People like to give postal employees ****. Hell, I like to give postal employees ****. But the sheer volume of mail that they by and large carry accurately and cheaply is unbelievable.

Maybe I'm a little biased on this, as it gripes my *** that ONLY the US Postal Service will deliver a package to my house for the same price that they'll deliver a package to any other house in the US. UPS doesn't. FedEx doesn't. This despite the fact that both UPS and FedEx have major hubs here and have flights coming in and out constantly.

sooneron
1/20/2007, 08:27 PM
Can I get a spam filter for my mailbox?

OUTromBoNado
1/20/2007, 09:13 PM
I noticed over here the mail carriers drive modified vehicles that are not GOV's - what is with that? Where I lived in NY they were all mail trucks..and I must say, they usually get much worse winter weather than this, and I don't recall anytime not getting the mail...there were many times that plows would come through and essentially bury the mailboxes and the carrier would get out of the vehicle and deliver the mail to the door in those instances (not that he had to - but I guess it is easier to just get rid of the mail he/she has on his truck rather than not deliver it)

My dad told me something about the USPS switching from the current mail truck to a modified van (Ford Windstar, I think). It's supposed to be fully enclosed with REAL climate control. The current trucks just have one dinky little fan that doesn't work for ****.


we had 2 days this week where we didn't get mail at all; we were told that the Post Office won't let them work past 5 PM because it starts getting dark; WTF???? I wish i could use that excuse with my Doritos deliveries.

It's probably because of all the valuables they carry and not getting mugged. Keep in mind a lot of mail carriers park their vehicles and walk several blocks away on foot to deliver mail. The world just isn't as safe as it used to be. A couple of years ago, a mail carrier in Tulsa was shot to death at an apartment complex.

sooneron
1/20/2007, 09:40 PM
I have known some very good letter carriers and some really crappy ones. I will always remember Mailman Mike. He had the Alameda area around Porter- used to deliver to the pharmacy where I worked. Great guy and hard worker.


I also remember quite a little minx that used to carry to Mom's old house - route on Flood. :D

NYSooner1355
1/20/2007, 11:31 PM
My dad told me something about the USPS switching from the current mail truck to a modified van (Ford Windstar, I think). It's supposed to be fully enclosed with REAL climate control. The current trucks just have one dinky little fan that doesn't work for ****.


If that is what they are going to do then cool...the ones I've seen by my house and my parents house are modified (by modified I mean the steering wheel is on the right side) versions of a Suzuki Samurai (softop) and an old beat up Broncho II - I **** you not

Frozen Sooner
1/20/2007, 11:35 PM
Speaking of cool postal buildings, isn't there one that was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright?

I thought I heard that on the tour of the place in Scottsdale.

sooneron
1/20/2007, 11:40 PM
Speaking of cool postal buildings, isn't there one that was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright?

I thought I heard that on the tour of the place in Scottsdale.
Yep

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/marin/marinpo.html

Frozen Sooner
1/20/2007, 11:42 PM
Very cool. Thanks bro.

Taliesin West was interesting. I hope everyone who was out for the Fiesta Bowl got a chance to check it out if they're at all interested in architecture.

sooneron
1/20/2007, 11:43 PM
Frank was a grumpy old queen.

Frozen Sooner
1/20/2007, 11:44 PM
Well, OK then. Designed some really cool lookin' buildings, though. Plus, he was married a couple of times.