no child left behind????

[fadada1]

think again.

my GF works for the city school district as an administrator for this program. it's a very good job, but she doesn't agree with the program... actually, the way it is run - at no fault to the children.

some of the providers for tutoring services are (unfortunately) lower than whale pooh in the deepest part of the ocean. she just sent me the results from the state's visit to all the city's tutoring services. the sylvan and huntington learning centers are fine, but the "mom and pop" operations are lunacy at best. i would say that 20-25% of the providers are in full compliance with the standards of the program (out of about 70 providers). last year, the address of one of the sites ended up being an empty lot. this year hasn't been much better. part of the problem is the manner in which one can become a "provider". fill out the proper paperwork and make it look good, and you too can get federal funds.

unfortunately, this money is coming from our tax dollars.

it's unfortunate that children are suffering from this. it's sad to think that our tax dollars are going to criminals. and it's sad to think that many in washington thinks this program is making a difference for millions of kids.

[sooner_born_1960]

Wait a minute. I help my daughter out with her algebra all the time. Are you saying I can set up a business to do that for other kids, and the government will pay me? That sounds like a good way to earn some extra money for something I'm doing anyway.

[sooner n houston]

And why blame the gov? It is the crooked people who are at fault here. Lets figure out how to stop them. lets work to make the system work. Something sure need to be done about our public schools. NCLB may not be the answer, but then what is?

[fadada1]

in theory... yes.

and if you have a degree, you'll probably be overqualified.

[sooner_born_1960]

How much do you get to charge for this "tutoring".

[fadada1]

And why blame the gov? It is the crooked people who are at fault here. Lets figure out how to stop them. lets work to make the system work. Something sure need to be done about our public schools. NCLB may not be the answer, but then what is?
i agree. but i blame both sides. the crooked people taking advantage of it, and the gov for not effectively monitoring it.

[fadada1]

How much do you get to charge for this "tutoring".
the tutoring is free to "those in need"... but NOT on welfare. the funds come from the program in order to set up the services. now you can see where the crooks come in.

if you can prove you're providing a service to 100 kids in a week, you get money for it. if you can prove that they actually come, when that really don't, you can get free money and be a criminal.

[Frozen Sooner]

Asking "If NCLB isn't the cure for problems in the schools, then what is?" is roughly analogous to asking "If hitting someone in the forehead with a triphammer isn't the cure for a broken toe, then what is?"

I mean, sure, the triphammer's going to distract you from the initial presentation of symptoms, but it's going to do more long-term damage than good.

The major problem with the school system today is the guarantee of an education to anyone. Schools need to have much more latitude to kick kids out who aren't ready or willing to learn.

[sooner_born_1960]

I'd really tutor them, and I wouldn't be looking to tutor anywhere near 100 a week. I'm just wondering how much per hour a tutor gets.

[sooner_born_1960]

The major problem with the school system today is the guarantee of an education to anyone. Schools need to have much more latitude to kick kids out who aren't ready or willing to learn.
That's the kind of crazy talk that could put me out of business.
When I get started in business.

[Sooner_Bob]

Asking "If NCLB isn't the cure for problems in the schools, then what is?" is roughly analogous to asking "If hitting someone in the forehead with a triphammer isn't the cure for a broken toe, then what is?"

I mean, sure, the triphammer's going to distract you from the initial presentation of symptoms, but it's going to do more long-term damage than good.

The major problem with the school system today is the guarantee of an education to anyone. Schools need to have much more latitude to kick kids out who aren't ready or willing to learn.


My brother's brother-in-law is an assistant principal and often tells us about how a week don't go by that DHS or the police aren't there picking up a kid for some reason or another. Biting, kicking, hitting a teacher. Mom got busted for dope or turning a few tricks.

Crazy stuff.

[Frozen Sooner]

Nah-your business would pick up. If a kid wasn't performing to grade level-BOOM! They're not ready to learn and they get to go to a tutor until they get their **** together.

[sooner_born_1960]

Nah-your business would pick up. If a kid wasn't performing to grade level-BOOM! They're not ready to learn and they get to go to a tutor until they get their **** together.
Would the government still pay me? I don't want to have resort to a collection agency.

[fadada1]

I'd really tutor them, and I wouldn't be looking to tutor anywhere near 100 a week. I'm just wondering how much per hour a tutor gets.
that's the thing, as i understand it, you don't get "paid by the hour". you get the funds because you're providing a service. how much exactly, i don't know, but i can ask.

if you're legit,all you need to do is keep doing it correctly - and proving it during a site visit by one of the administrators (like what my GF does). if you try to beat the system, you may get funds for a year or two, but they ebventually catch you (with little in the way of consequences).

if you're interested, and in a major city, contact the public school system for the city. they can point you in the right direction and requirements.

[Ike]

Man...you just flooded me with memories from my childhood...

See up until I was 4 or so, my mom was a math teacher. When she had my sister, she quit teaching to stay at home with the kids. well, 2 more kids and an oil bust later, my dad lost his job. As he bounced around from job to job for the next 5 years or so, my mom started tutoring kids in math to help pay the bills. This allowed her to work with a somewhat flexible schedule and still keep an eye on 4 kids running around the house. There was no federal funding for tutoring back then. The kids parents, or the kids themselves paid for the tutoring. She contacted as many local teachers as she could to ask them to recommend students to her, and because she got results, her little home 'business' took off pretty quick. She'd tutor 4 kids a night, 3 nights a week. I have no idea how much she made doing this, but I know that it really did save our asses.

So anyway, back to NCLB...federal funding for tutors, IMHO, is a good thing...not because I think it would have allowed my mom to make more money back then (because it shouldn't have), but because I think there are some kids that could benefit from tutoring whose parents either can't afford it or would refuse to pay for it. Using a small amount of federal funds to see that those kids get tutoring isn't a bad thing. I think it just would need to be restructured a bit.

Here's how: Give tutoring money to the school. Allow the teachers to have some say in how it is spent. If a kid needs tutoring, the parents and teacher and perhaps a counselor sit down and discuss tutoring options. (who is available nearby, who is good, etc). If the parents cannot afford to get their kid to a tutor or tutoring service, the school directs some money towards the tutoring service that the parents select (some percentage of the cost of the lessons). The school pays lesson by lesson. When the kid shows up the school pays.

Now, here is where the teacher gets to have a say. If the teacher starts seeing improvement after, say, a month or so, the teacher should note that, and inform the school that the payments should continue. If the teacher fails to see improvement, the teacher should inform the school that perhaps the tutoring money is being mis-spent, sit down again with the kid, the parents, the counselor, and perhaps even the tutor, and discuss what is going on. That particular tutoring service should also fall lower on the teacher's list of potential tutoring services. If a lack of improvement continues over a long period of time, payments should be stopped. after X number of school initiated payment stoppages, a given service should be removed from the recommendation list entirely.

The goal here is to help kids learn. Yeah, there might be some money wasted under my system, but I offer that it will likely be less than the money wasted under the current system.

My personal history tells me that just painting 'mom and pop' tutoring services with a broad brush is inaccurate. But under the current system, I can understand how it is easy to abuse the system for money.

[GottaHavePride]

Wichita's having a stink because the school district has already blown well over 400,000 dollars this year on these tutoring programs to little effect.

[olevetonahill]

Serious question here ( imagine me being serious )
I have a young man here that has been kicked out of school , I think its a permanent thing .
Im willing to to help him with his ED but dont know where to go to get what I need .
Any help is appreciated

[Mjcpr]

Im willing to to help him with his ED but dont know where to go to get what I need. Any help is appreciated

You could probably talk to your PCP into a sample pack of Cialis.

YWIA

[olevetonahill]

You could probably talk to your PCP into a sample pack of Cialis.

YWIA
Here I am being serious for once and along comes the resident smartass , Oh wait thats most of us ;)

[NYSooner1355]

Asking "If NCLB isn't the cure for problems in the schools, then what is?" is roughly analogous to asking "If hitting someone in the forehead with a triphammer isn't the cure for a broken toe, then what is?"

I mean, sure, the triphammer's going to distract you from the initial presentation of symptoms, but it's going to do more long-term damage than good.

The major problem with the school system today is the guarantee of an education to anyone. Schools need to have much more latitude to kick kids out who aren't ready or willing to learn.

unfortunately - as a Guidance Counselor here in OKC I have to say - BINGO! that and allowing students the opportunity to tailor their education would probably go a long way to extending educational benefits to greater numbers than this method of testing, testing then test some more and not allowing teachers to teach -

I honestly believe the NCLB laws are ultimately set up to make schools fail

[BajaOklahoma]

Apparently the NCLB program has domr osrt of random testing component to it. They came out to our school yesterdaay to look over our facility and the accommodation requirements for our 4th grade students.
They are coming back in the next month to test our kids. we have no idea what subjects will be involved, how the test will be run or the time requirements and will never get the scores or info on the results. :mad: And it's the week before our kids have their TAKS writing test.

[85Sooner]

The whole public education system should be scrapped. I am sick of seeing very expensive duct tape being reused to fix problems. It needs to be comepletely rebuilt, the money returned to the citizens and let the communities develop the new system. Oh and add a big FU to the education unions.

[OCUDad]

"If hitting someone in the forehead with a triphammer isn't the cure for a broken toe, then what is?"Actually, hitting certain people in the forehead with a triphammer would be a pretty good cure for a lot of problems.

[Frozen Sooner]

unfortunately - as a Guidance Counselor here in OKC I have to say - BINGO! that and allowing students the opportunity to tailor their education would probably go a long way to extending educational benefits to greater numbers than this method of testing, testing then test some more and not allowing teachers to teach -

I honestly believe the NCLB laws are ultimately set up to make schools fail

They are. It's a backdoor attempt to privatize schools and extend federal funding to parochial schools.

Unfortunately, the ADA is also a prime culprit in all this-which is awful, as I'm a big fan of the intent of the ADA and it's something over which I have an ideological break with my father over. Anymore, when a kid has a behavior problem, it's just too easy to classify them as having a behavioral problem and assign them an IEP instead of actually attempting to discipline the child. Once the IEP is in place, the teachers and administrators are just too hamstrung to effectively bring order to the classroom.

[Zbird]

Serious question here ( imagine me being serious )
I have a young man here that has been kicked out of school , I think its a permanent thing .
Im willing to to help him with his ED but dont know where to go to get what I need .
Any help is appreciated

Contact state dept of Ed - ask-em to send info about home schooling and GED requirements.

[Mrs. Norm]

I know some schools are different, but where I teach, my principal REFUSES to hold anybody back. She states that we should leave anybody behind. She believes that they will "catch up in the next grade". I have 9/55 6th graders with F's in Math and Reading. They will pass to the 7th grade. 52/55 of my students came to me at a 4th grade reading level or below. I had one score .9 (which is Pre-K....he's in 6th grade!!!!) But hey, we're not "leaving them behind". Pathetic.

[Frozen Sooner]

I know some schools are different, but where I teach, my principal REFUSES to hold anybody back. She states that we should leave anybody behind. She believes that they will "catch up in the next grade". I have 9/55 6th graders with F's in Math and Reading. They will pass to the 7th grade. 52/55 of my students came to me at a 4th grade reading level or below. I had one score .9 (which is Pre-K....he's in 6th grade!!!!) But hey, we're not "leaving them behind". Pathetic.


Your principal needs to be beaten with a brickbat. She's not doing those students any favors.

[Cam]

Your principal needs to be beaten with a brickbat. She's not doing those students any favors.
Her principal's not the only one doing that. It's been pretty common here for a while. Then you have the parents who refuse to hold back their child because they don't want to embarrass them. :rolleyes:

[TopDawg]

They are. It's a backdoor attempt to privatize schools and extend federal funding to parochial schools.


Mhmm.

The problem with this entire thing is that, as a child, W should've been left behind. Heck, his parents may've been just like the ones Cam is referring to. His view of education is probably as distorted as they come. ;)

[BajaOklahoma]

The older the child, the less likely they are to be held back. Per my principal, there are studies showing that holding them back at an older age increases the chance they will drop out.

We have a kid who refuses to do anything at school. First grader. Mom carries him nto school, he rides around in a wagon from which he never moves (including lunch and bathroom - he has pull-ups on). He has an emotionally disturbed label, so we can't do a thing. His mom is crazy, not helping this child or the younger ones. Sad to think he is a lost child in first grade.

[Mjcpr]

He has an emotionally disturbed label, so we can't do a thing.

If someone were to "accidentally" peel it off his forehead could you?

[Frozen Sooner]

The older the child, the less likely they are to be held back. Per my principal, there are studies showing that holding them back at an older age increases the chance they will drop out.


BFD. So they drop out. Is it better to have a de jure dropout who doesn't have a fake diploma or a de facto dropout who has a piece of paper certifying they attained educational goals they didn't in fact attain?

[sooner_born_1960]

Triphammer? Brickbat?
Mike, you pick some of the oddest weapons.

[Frozen Sooner]

Triphammer? Brickbat?
Mike, you pick some of the oddest weapons.

The master of beathehellouttasomeonedo is prepared at all times to perform mayhem with whatever is at hand. You should see what I can do to someone with an eggbeater.

[olevetonahill]

The master of beathehellouttasomeonedo is prepared at all times to perform mayhem with whatever is at hand. You should see what I can do to someone with an eggbeater.
Stick in there *** make em get in a crick and Play Motor boat , motor boat ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Her principal's not the only one doing that. It's been pretty common here for a while. Then you have the parents who refuse to hold back their child because they don't want to embarrass them. :rolleyes:

Brickbats.

[BajaOklahoma]

If someone were to "accidentally" peel it off his forehead could you?

Personally, I think he needs his butt whipped. He supposedly acts "normal" at home. Of course, that's what the crazy mom said. :rolleyes:

Froz, the idea is that if you can keep the kids in class, they aren't on the street. But they won't graduate down here unless they pass the Exit TAKS test, which they probably can't do. I think the studies support it is cheaper to keep them in class and hope they go back for their GED.

[fadada1]

i remember the 2 years i spent in texas and hearing about TAKS. is TAKS the big test in 8th grade or so?

whilst teaching at sam houston, i had a bunch of students in education and student teaching that talked about it. scary thing is, most of them probably couldn't pass it themselves.

[Frozen Sooner]

Froz, the idea is that if you can keep the kids in class, they aren't on the street. But they won't graduate down here unless they pass the Exit TAKS test, which they probably can't do. I think the studies support it is cheaper to keep them in class and hope they go back for their GED.

The problem is that that kid is hampering the learning curve of the entire rest of the class. The teacher has to spend inordinate amounts of time teaching that one student who's behind grade level when that kid would be much better served in a classroom that's at his grade level. The kids who are prepared get shortchanged on the teacher's time and don't get the education they deserve.

Schools aren't babysitting services, much as some parents would like them to be. It's not your job to keep them there no matter what. It's your job to teach them. It's the parents' job to keep them in school.

[fadada1]

Schools aren't babysitting services, much as some parents would like them to be. It's not your job to keep them there no matter what. It's your job to teach them. It's the parents' job to keep them in school.
this should be made into a bumper sticker.

[BajaOklahoma]

fadada1, TAKS is given to students from 3rd grade on. For the odd number grade levels, you must pass to advance to the next grade level. The even number grade levels take the tests, but they are used to determine who needs additional tutoring.
In 10th grade, the Exit TAKS is given. You may retake it sveral times, but if you don't pass, you don't graduate, no matter the GPA. There was a school district on the southside of Dallas with lots of kids with good GPAs but couldn't pass the TAKS. Can we say a heck of a curve?
They are standardized tests, not hard if you don't sleep through class.

Mike, most high school classes are grouped by ability, to a degree anyway. Babysitting in school is still cheaper than the cost of keeping them in jail and the damage they did.

[oklaclarinet]

Her principal's not the only one doing that. It's been pretty common here for a while. Then you have the parents who refuse to hold back their child because they don't want to embarrass them. :rolleyes:

I have been told that one of the primary reasons for social promotion is not to keep a student that is falling behind from being embarassed, but rather to protect the rest of the students. If a student was truly held back several times, it could result in a situation where you have a 15/16 year old in a classroom with 11 year olds, and as someone who teaches both age groups I can attest to the fact that there are big differences between those groups, emotionally, mentally, and physically. The 15/16 year old would be too much of a threat to a class of 11 year olds, so it is considered the more acceptable option to go ahead and boot up the older kid and preserve the class for the younger kids.

(This does not imply by any means that I am a fan of social promotion.)

[Frozen Sooner]

Baja, I understand that when considered on the cost for that individual it is cheaper to babysit him at school than have him go out and end up in jail. I wonder, however, what the overall societal cost is to keep malcontents and troublemakers in school-distracting the teacher from his actual mission of education.

[Soonrboy]

The biggest obstacle to overcome in educating children is the home life. The majority of the kids who are causing problems at school, and I'm speaking from a elementary level, are the ones who have poorest of home lives. I'm not talking economic status, but poor in morality and poor in quality time being a family. Our school works their asses off to meet the minimum requirements, and I believe the teachers in my building truly make a difference in the day-to-day life of these kids. But, I wonder what a difference is being made in the long run. I pray everyday that what we do "sticks" with these kdis.

I'm not a big proponent of NCLB, by any means. It is a means to make our schools more unequal than they already are.

[royalfan5]

Baja, I understand that when considered on the cost for that individual it is cheaper to babysit him at school than have him go out and end up in jail. I wonder, however, what the overall societal cost is to keep malcontents and troublemakers in school-distracting the teacher from his actual mission of education.
Perhaps the malcontents should be sent to an island in a Lord of the Flies style experiment. Think of the entertainment potential. The revenue from advertising with this could be used to fund schools for the good children. We could call it "Some Children Sent to an Island Cause they Can't follow the ******* Rules" or SCSICCFFR for short.