Defense in the Bowl Game

[Soonerman08]

Alright guys I know a lot of you all have been bitching about the defense in the bowl game but let us dissect this for a minute. Alright straight up the offense gave up 14 points right? One off the interception return for a touchdown and then fumbling at the two yard line doesn't help anything. Hard to blame the defense for that. So grant it you cannot blame that on the defense. The giving up on the 4th and 18.....gee let's see here. BSU ran a play that is rarely ever ran to perfection ala the hook-n-ladder play. If you automatically take away those 14 points the offense gave to Boise State...the game doesn't go to overtime and takes away their Touchdown. So automatically take the 22 points away (including their 2 point conversion) and the defense did not play bad at all. I mean c'mon guys this loss hurts but blaming our defense for the entire loss isn't a legit argument.

[TXBOOMER]

OUr D didn't play that bad. But, go watch a game from the 2000 or 2001 D and you'll be less impressed with OUr 3.8 star average defensive starters.

[TUSooner]

I agree with the original proposition.
As I recall, we shut them down and allowed only a couple of first downs right up until the Play That Made Me Nauseous For 3 Days. OUr defense was bad on the 1st TD, the late TD before the half, and the PTMMNF3D. As much as I want to let go of this defeat, I have to insist once more that 90% of blame belongs on the offense, specifically the offensive strategy:
We simply gave up on the run too soon, exposing our weaknesses in the passing game. The 3 INTs were obvioulsy errors in the passing game, but so was the fumble (a sack). Sure, BSu stopped some runs up the middle, but they did not "shut down the run"; WE shut down the run. Part of the successful running game is to stick with it until you wear the other guys down. Whenever we had their D on its heels, we let them off the hook with bull crap plays when a bit more manly mouth-bashing would have broken them down. If we had persevered in the rushing attack, we would have worn out their D and AD & AP would have been ripping up huge chunks of yardage by the mid-third quarter. You saw what AD did in the OT. I firmly believe that. And unless someone can show me I'm wrong - and not just tell me - I will remain convinced that the loss was due mainly to a failure to have a focused offensive plan and stick with it. I'll bet in hindsight both Bob and KW would agree, if not publicly.

[BASSooner]

Personally, I thought OUr D wasn't that bad either, but it could've been a lot better. People say that someone on the staff should leave or get MORE talented players. We have enough talent to be an elite defense, even coming into next season.
Throughout the season, I was impressed with OUr defense, however, it could've done better considering the talent that we have. It's the coaching that needs to change. Now don't bash me because you think that I believe that we should fire BV or any of the other coaches. They do very well in what they do. I'm saying that the things that need to happen are more tackling drills and a change in the defensive philosophy.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Sorry, i disagree with the assessment that the defense played well; when it was nut crunching time, they failed to make the stop, and IMO, that's how defenses are judged.

[Texas Golfer]

Alright guys I know a lot of you all have been bitching about the defense in the bowl game but let us dissect this for a minute. Alright straight up the offense gave up 14 points right? One off the interception return for a touchdown and then fumbling at the two yard line doesn't help anything. Hard to blame the defense for that. So grant it you cannot blame that on the defense. The giving up on the 4th and 18.....gee let's see here. BSU ran a play that is rarely ever ran to perfection ala the hook-n-ladder play. If you automatically take away those 14 points the offense gave to Boise State...the game doesn't go to overtime and takes away their Touchdown. So automatically take the 22 points away (including their 2 point conversion) and the defense did not play bad at all. I mean c'mon guys this loss hurts but blaming our defense for the entire loss isn't a legit argument.

You can coulda, woulda, shoulda all night but it won't ever change what did.

Our secondary left their receivers wide open all night (especially on a 4th & 18 conversion for all of the marbles). Our defensive penetration was poor at best. When we did get in their backfield, we missed the tackles. Had we had any penetration at all on that 2-point converstion, we bust up that play. It took so long to develop that any pass rusher could have busted that up.

Our OL couldn't open a hole to save their lives. Their small DL manhandled our big OL all night long. Our two long runs (one by AP and one by AD) were both made by getting through very small openings and jumping over linemen because our OL couldn't open a hole.

Although I'm very proud of our team, it was our game to lose and we lost it. It was not one of our better performances. I have no doubt that if it were a two out of three situation, we take the next two.

[birddog]

if our blitzes didn't start from 20 yards away from the line of scrimmage....

[azheat4u]

I agree our defense played better than everyone is stating. Our defense really only gave up 2 tds on legitamte drives. The last td was a bizzare play to say the least. We would have had the BS wr stopped if he hadn't pitched it. BS played our aggressiveness against us. We were swarming to the receiver as they are taught, who teaches would be tacklers to watch the other players.

I agree we should have just played smash mouth football from start to finish. Both AD and AP were getting 4 yds a pop. The play calling wasn't great, especially the drive at the end of the 3rd qtr. We ran AP on 1st down to about the 5. On 2nd down we threw an incomplete pass. We should have had AD run the ball, even if he doesn't score we are closer to the goal line. With this being said you have the threat of running or passing, instead we were still at the 5 & everyone knew we had to throw in that situation. Another incompletion and we have to settle for 3.

[goingoneight]

The three interceptions can be broken down, one because of a ball tipped at the line. Again, not much you can do about that. Another was a deep ball to an inexperienced receiver who doesn't really impress as a WR. Top that off with QC not even trying to fight for it, he got behind the CB and Safety and just gave up on the ball and tried to tackle the guy. Hey, my opinion, shove the guy and take the penalty, make him drop it. I didn't understand why we kept throwing it at Chaney all night long either, but meh...
The third interception was, oh let's see... a dumb play. Unfortunately, we tend to do that no matter who the OC is. Everyone does.

Yeah, point out what you will, it just wan't OUr night, BSU had OUr number. Oh, well... at least this didn't happen in the Independence Bowl where you KNOW you're playing a f*cktard and can't bear the loss.

Again, congrats to BSU, and come on BV, quit blitzing sooo much. Otherwise, good game, good season.

[birddog]

remember, the play that started our comeback was our punt that hit the bsu dude's leg.

we had NO momentum and were dead in the water (28-10 in the 3rd) until that point.

bottom line is we didn't look very good until they made a mistake. and we made them look great by all of our mistakes.

[the_ouskull]

if our blitzes didn't start from 20 yards away from the line of scrimmage....

Like most of AD's handoffs...?

the_ouskull

[MojoRisen]

Our secondary left their receivers wide open all night (especially on a 4th & 18 conversion for all of the marbles). Our defensive penetration was poor at best. When we did get in their backfield, we missed the tackles. Had we had any penetration at all on that 2-point converstion, we bust up that play. It took so long to develop that any pass rusher could have busted that up.


I have to agree with this comment... We gave them too much late once again and it is just my opinion that busting or disrupting plays is a safer bet than just playing it safe... Being physical and getting after it tends to disrupt execution...

We gave them the first down on the 4th and 18 prior to the pitch- gave it too them... Prevent makes me real nervous- I would stick with what was working- physical agression... Just my opinion... Attitude gives you energy and focuss...

[TopDawg]

We simply gave up on the run too soon, exposing our weaknesses in the passing game. The 3 INTs were obvioulsy errors in the passing game, but so was the fumble (a sack). Sure, BSu stopped some runs up the middle, but they did not "shut down the run"; WE shut down the run. Part of the successful running game is to stick with it until you wear the other guys down. Whenever we had their D on its heels, we let them off the hook with bull crap plays when a bit more manly mouth-bashing would have broken them down. If we had persevered in the rushing attack, we would have worn out their D and AD & AP would have been ripping up huge chunks of yardage by the mid-third quarter. You saw what AD did in the OT. I firmly believe that. And unless someone can show me I'm wrong - and not just tell me - I will remain convinced that the loss was due mainly to a failure to have a focused offensive plan and stick with it. I'll bet in hindsight both Bob and KW would agree, if not publicly.

I don't think our gameplan was that much different from the rest of the year. The main difference is that, for instance, in the Nebraska game Paul Thompson was throwing the deep ball alot better than he did agaisnt Boise State. If he hits just one of those 3 or 4 deep balls where the guys are WIDE OPEN, then we win. But he didn't. And, IMO, that was the big difference.

Also, not having Malcolm for 3 quarters didn't help either. I don't see why more people don't appreciate the impact he had on offense. We wouldn't be in the Fiesta Bowl if it weren't for Malcolm Kelly and not having him in the game was HUGE.

[usmc-sooner]

not having Kelly was huge but Iglesias stepped up big.

bottom line is we should've won. We had the lead with a minute to go. We should've done better on offense, we should've done better on defense, we should've done better in the coaching department. Why you guys want to put a spin on a bad loss is beyond me.

We've lost to bigger dogs than this before like say OSU a few times, Kansas in the 80's and 70's I believe.

All you can really say is that on Jan 1st they were the better team.

[TopDawg]

not having Kelly was huge but Iglesias stepped up big.

Imagine what he could've done if Kelly would've been occupying their #1 DB.


bottom line is we should've won. We had the lead with a minute to go. We should've done better on offense, we should've done better on defense, we should've done better in the coaching department. Why you guys want to put a spin on a bad loss is beyond me.

Why you want to call an OT loss to a Top 10 team on a neutral field a bad loss is beyond me.

[usmc-sooner]

I've never seen a good loss.

[sanantoniosooner]

I've never seen a good loss.
so there are losses and bad losses.

do we need to connect dots for you to understand the difference?

[jacru]

4th and 18. A down that will live in infamy.

I'd like to think that we can stop ANYONE from converting on a 4th and 18, with the game on the line.

[usmc-sooner]

so there are losses and bad losses.

do we need to connect dots for you to understand the difference?

guys if you want to think it's Ok to get beat by Boise St. that's fine it's your perogative, it's what message boards are for. I'll respect your opinion.

But with our facilities, budgets, coaches and athletes I don't think it was a good thing that we lost this game. Yes they've beat some big names like Oregon State who beat USC. I get that. They shouldn't have beat us.

Did they have better athletes? No maybe in some positions but across the board, no they don't. If you answer yes then we need to seriously look at who is in charge of recruiting. I couldn't sell a blanket to an Eskimo but I could sell OU over Boise State.

Did they have a better coaching staff, I don't think so. I think have a great coaching staff but not better than ours. If they have a better coaching staff then maybe we should try to get them here. I'm sure if you waived Stoops paycheck in Peterson's face we could probably land him.

This is why I say it's bad loss. I don't see a loss and a bad loss, they are all bad losses. There is W-L column not a Good Win, Bad Win, Good loss, loss and a bad loss column.

This is my perspective, I understand if you don't agree. I'm not of the same rah-rah mentality as some of you on this board, and that's OK there's always a couple of different types. I'll still be on board next year and the year after that, and so on until like the song says till I'm Sooner dead. But in 12 years from now if we lose to Ga Southern or Appalachian State (sp) Even if they are undefeated, moved up to Div I, ranked in the top 10, it's going to be a bad loss for me.

[MojoRisen]

I believe we ran a stunt and it did not develop quick enough thus we didn't get pressure on the QB "he had all day"- our DB's were playing too far off and we blew containment. I would think that on 4th and 18 we have to get pressure on the QB if we are going to play it safe in the secondary... Nic Harris Blitz may have been nice out of Zone coverage???? As an old defensive player I prefer to stay agressive -

either way- we allowed too much time for the play too develop- and played to cushy in the secondary and we got burned.

We needed to get pressure somehow on Zebransky in that coverage...

[TUSooner]

guys if you want to think it's Ok to get beat by Boise St. that's fine it's your perogative, it's what message boards are for. I'll respect your opinion.

But with our facilities, budgets, coaches and athletes I don't think it was a good thing that we lost this game. Yes they've beat some big names like Oregon State who beat USC. I get that. They shouldn't have beat us.

Did they have better athletes? No maybe in some positions but across the board, no they don't. If you answer yes then we need to seriously look at who is in charge of recruiting. I couldn't sell a blanket to an Eskimo but I could sell OU over Boise State.

Did they have a better coaching staff, I don't think so. I think have a great coaching staff but not better than ours. If they have a better coaching staff then maybe we should try to get them here. I'm sure if you waived Stoops paycheck in Peterson's face we could probably land him.

This is why I say it's bad loss. I don't see a loss and a bad loss, they are all bad losses. There is W-L column not a Good Win, Bad Win, Good loss, loss and a bad loss column.

This is my perspective, I understand if you don't agree. I'm not of the same rah-rah mentality as some of you on this board, and that's OK there's always a couple of different types. I'll still be on board next year and the year after that, and so on until like the song says till I'm Sooner dead. But in 12 years from now if we lose to Ga Southern or Appalachian State (sp) Even if they are undefeated, moved up to Div I, ranked in the top 10, it's going to be a bad loss for me.
TELL 'EM, Jarhead!
OO-rah
(ymssra...)

[TopDawg]

This is why I say it's bad loss. I don't see a loss and a bad loss, they are all bad losses. There is W-L column not a Good Win, Bad Win, Good loss, loss and a bad loss column.

Wait, so now all you're saying is that it's a bad loss because losses are bad? Well, sure. A car wreck is a bad thing, too. If you backed into someone's car in a parking lot would you be taken aback if they said "Man, this is a bad wreck."


This is my perspective, I understand if you don't agree. I'm not of the same rah-rah mentality as some of you on this board, and that's OK there's always a couple of different types.

But in a strage way, it does seem like you're being a rah-rah kinda guy by refusing to see that maybe it's possible that Boise State could have a team that's as good as yours.

I certainly don't think I'm being a rah-rah guy. I'm going out of my way to give credit to the other team. They're probably the 2nd most talented team we played this year. Maybe the most talented. And, like you said above, I do think they matched up with us and that it's a problem with our recruiting. It's no secret that we had several recruiting busts shortly after our national title. Those busts are coming back to haunt us. Those guys were recruited around the same time Boise State recruited guys like Zabransky. Boise State held on to those guys for 4 or 5 years and we didn't. I think that had a huge impact on this game.

So if you're saying it's bad BECAUSE it's a loss, then, okay, that makes perfect sense...but it's hardly worth pointing out. I think we can all agree that some losses are worse than others. Personally, I don't think a BCS bowl game loss to an undefeated Top 10 team in overtime is that bad of a loss.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Our DB's gave to much cushion the whole game.

like 7-10 yards.

[sanantoniosooner]

sunshine pumper<------------------------------------------------------>idiot

lotta room in between.

[Texas Golfer]

guys if you want to think it's Ok to get beat by Boise St. that's fine it's your perogative, it's what message boards are for. I'll respect your opinion.

But with our facilities, budgets, coaches and athletes I don't think it was a good thing that we lost this game. Yes they've beat some big names like Oregon State who beat USC. I get that. They shouldn't have beat us.

Did they have better athletes? No maybe in some positions but across the board, no they don't. If you answer yes then we need to seriously look at who is in charge of recruiting. I couldn't sell a blanket to an Eskimo but I could sell OU over Boise State.

Did they have a better coaching staff, I don't think so. I think have a great coaching staff but not better than ours. If they have a better coaching staff then maybe we should try to get them here. I'm sure if you waived Stoops paycheck in Peterson's face we could probably land him.

This is why I say it's bad loss. I don't see a loss and a bad loss, they are all bad losses. There is W-L column not a Good Win, Bad Win, Good loss, loss and a bad loss column.

This is my perspective, I understand if you don't agree. I'm not of the same rah-rah mentality as some of you on this board, and that's OK there's always a couple of different types. I'll still be on board next year and the year after that, and so on until like the song says till I'm Sooner dead. But in 12 years from now if we lose to Ga Southern or Appalachian State (sp) Even if they are undefeated, moved up to Div I, ranked in the top 10, it's going to be a bad loss for me.

I agree. This was our game to lose and we lost. They didn't win the game as much as we gave them the game.

Nonetheless, it was a great season overall and I'm very proud of this team.

[sanantoniosooner]

We didn't lose......we just ran out of overtimes.

borderline aggies......some of you.

[usmc-sooner]

like I've said earlier if we lose to Ap. State, Portland St. Salem St. in 12 years it's a bad loss, we're supposed to better than those teams. You guys can read that however you want it. It was perceived as a Po Dunk U. beating a Powerhouse. We should not be getting beat by a team that's 11 years into Div I. Do I think it was a fluke? Yes Do I think we'll rebound? Absoultely Do I think it's the worst team to upset us? No. We were probably a heavier favorite over Arkansas in the 70's. Do I think it was a bad loss? Yes

If Alabama, USC or Notre Dame, Texas lost to BSU I'd say the same about them. It would be a bad loss to their program.

Like I said if you think it's the same as losing in OT to Penn State, USC, Texas or a team that's just been Div 1 for more than 11 years with a first year coach, that's fine. I'm not here to tell you how to think. This is my opinion, unfortunately it's also a perception the media is going to force feed the nation until we rack up number 8.

I'm not taking this personally, and I'm not meaning any of this to be in your face. I'm not calling anyone a sunshine pumper or an idiot. I don't think TD takes it that way. We've had plenty of arguments on here to where I hope he doesn't think that's where I'm going. If that's what your talking about SAS except half the time I don't get what your talking about.

[sanantoniosooner]

Everything gets blown out of proportion around here. If somebody wanted USC to lose, then people say they were rooting for UT. If somebody isn't broken up over the loss to Boise, people think they liked the loss.

Some can't distinguish between the type of loss we had to USC and the loss we had to BSU.

You've been very civil even if I think you've overreacted.

[Vaevictis]

There is no such thing as a "good" loss. They're all "bad." But as far as losses goes, this wasn't one that made me bitter for weeks (Oregon), or made me want to quite literally puke as I was watching it (USC).

Oregon, USC, and KSU, I still look back and swear, curse, want to vomit, throat punch someone, etc.

This is one of those losses where you swear a lot while it's going on, shake your head after it's over, and move on. I won't be looking back at it. One day, I may even be able to appreciate it for the great ending (as seen by someone who had no horse in the race).