Hatfield
1/4/2007, 10:08 AM
or is it just a case of freedom of speech?*
*the caveat being threatening members of congress doesn't carry the same weight as threatening the president.
Assassination' schedule announced for Congress
Radio-show host says leaders won't be allowed to 'betray' nation
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53245
A radio talk-show entertainer whose earlier statements that he "may" have to assassinate members of Congress if the wrong people were elected Nov. 7 now has set a timetable for those killings.
In a statement on his website, Hal Turner noted that a newspaper has reported that a bill granting amnesty to illegal aliens is expected to be enacted in January, when the Democratic Party takes control of the U.S. Senate and House.
"ANY MEMBER OF CONGRESS WHO INTRODUCES, CO-SPONSORS OR VOTES IN FAVOR OF ANY SUCH AMNESTY WILL BE DECLARED A DOMESTIC ENEMY AND WILL BE CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE TARGET FOR ASSASSINATION," Turner posted on his website.
"Members of Congress and the Senate will NOT be permitted to BETRAY our nation by simply GIVING AWAY the most cherished aspect of America, Citizenship, to millions of people who cared so little for what Citizenship means that they came here against our law," he continued.
Several weeks ago, Turner incited much discussion when he posted the following:
"We may have to ASSASSINATE some of the people you elect on Nov. 7! This could be your LAST ELECTION CHANCE, to save this Republic…
"Sorry to have to be so blunt, but the country is in mortal danger from our present government and our liberty is already near dead because of this government. If you are too stupid to turn things around with your vote, there are people out here like me who are willing to turn things around with guns, force and violence. We hope our method does not become necessary," he wrote.
But he defined his position as commentary instead of advocacy when one supporter wrote to Turner's website, "Hey Hal instead of saying 'may' SAY you WILL KILL THEM!!!"
"No no no no no. Words mean things," Turner wrote at the time. The difference between 'may' and 'will' is the difference between an opinion and a threat," he concluded. "One is lawful, the other is not!"
In the current posting, Turner has taken an aggressive stance against any effort by Congress to legalize or provide a "path to citizenship" for the millions of aliens who are in the United States illegally.
"Congress will not be permitted to BETRAY our nation by giving Citizenship to tens of thousands who didn't give a s--- about our other laws as they murdered, raped, robbed, dealt illegal drugs, drove without licenses or insurance, stole the social security numbers and/or identities of millions of lawful citizens and most of whom don't give a s--- enough about our country to even learn our language!"
Asked about procedures involving suspected threats to members of Congress, the U.S. Secret Service told WND that it would be interested only if the threat involved someone the Service protects. All other cases would be referred to local police jurisdictions.
When WND's question specifically referred to a website statement, Secret Service spokesman Darrin Blackford told WND: "We have no comment on that statement."
Paul Bresson, a spokesman for the FBI, said he couldn't confirm what investigations are being pursued.
"The Internet does not give anyone a license to espouse violence, but there is a certain amount of protection, First Amendment protections, that are built in and we're mindful of those," he said.
He called it a "fine line," and said what the agency would do is look at all the information available and "make a determination" whether any crime might have been committed.
In the earlier situation FBI spokeswoman Debbie Weierman said such circumstances generally are turned over to a "duty agent" to review, but she couldn't provide other information until and unless a charge would be filed in any case.
In the current rant, Turner calls it a "right" for Americans to act in self-defense of their nation.
"Members of The United States House of Representatives or United States Senate who try to grant any form of Amnesty to millions of illegal aliens are hereby notified they may as well paint a bulls-eye target on themselves. Our Bullets don't care about their sovereign power," he wrote.
"This seems to be 'it' folks. I'm going to do what I have to do to protect my nation from its government. I know where all of my New Jersey Congressmen and Senators live. Do you know where yours live? If not, you better find out before January so you can scope out their neighborhoods and prepare yourselves," he said.
"Those of you who, for years, have said you're 'gonna do this' or 'gonna do that' when the time comes; are about to face ugly reality. In January, 'the time' will come. In January the entire world will find out if you're real or just a bigmouth coward," he said.
One reader who responded on his comment sheet asked Turner, "who's gonna pick up the fruits and clean your toilet?" To which Turner said, "Machinery can pick the crops; I clean my own toilet."
Turner also declined a suggestion to post a list of addresses and provide maps "so people can protest at their homes" by saying, "Once I publish such a list, they would undoubtedly feel the need and take steps to secure themselves. If we forewarn them by publicly publishing a list, we lose the element of surprise."
One other reader said, "I'm sitting here now with my 30.06 stripped down. Can do this in the dark. Don't want any grains of sand in the mechanism," he wrote.
Still another said he'd forwarded Turner's comments to the FBI, to which Turner responded with a laugh.
"You called the FBI about me? BIG DEAL! One can only illegally 'incite' violence when what is said is uttered in a context which lends itself to IMMINENT lawlessness. I will not be arrested because I have thus far committed no crime. Just because you don't understand the subtle delineations of the law does not mean I have broken the law. The FBI has been receiving reports about me from morons like you for six years. I'm still here. Your posting did, however, give me a chuckle!"
But his posting also continued further into his plans, and his expectations for the consequences.
"The pro-white movement has a habit of making martyrs of folks who take action. They hold rallies for them. They put up web sites about them. Just so we're clear, the only people authorized to do that for me after I become a martyr (alive or dead) are those who stand with me when the fight takes place. Because if you are, TODAY, 'pro-white' and you fail to stand with me in confronting our renegade government, then I say you are a coward and I don't want my name being uttered by cowards," he wrote.
He said the "amnesty" would mark "the actual end of our nation."
"That will erase us as a nation and I will not permit it. What about you?" he asked.
One reader was quick with his response: "Where can we get some polonium-210?" he asked.
Turner also carries on his website a disclaimer noting that he is considered a "public figure" which means a lot of places carry of lot of comments about him over which he has no control, including some with "virulent" perspectives.
"This being the case, Mr. Turner feels it necessary to – and hereby does – DISCLAIM AND REPUDIATE any affiliation with or support of such groups."
Even he didn't take his earlier statements that he may have to assassinate about half of the members of Congress and three members of the U.S. Supreme court seriously. He told WND he never bothered to make a hit list because he never planned to kill anyone.
Turner also told WND earlier he'd been investigated by the Secret Service, the U.S. Marshals Service and others in the past, without results.
He said that's because he's very careful to "use words such as 'may have' (or) 'might' which are opinions/observations rather than threats."
"I am totally familiar with three specific U.S. Supreme Court decisions and those parameters govern what I say and write," he said. He said his comments are "uttered in a context which does not lend itself to imminent lawlessness," do not constitute a "true threat," and could be considered "political hyperbole."
*the caveat being threatening members of congress doesn't carry the same weight as threatening the president.
Assassination' schedule announced for Congress
Radio-show host says leaders won't be allowed to 'betray' nation
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53245
A radio talk-show entertainer whose earlier statements that he "may" have to assassinate members of Congress if the wrong people were elected Nov. 7 now has set a timetable for those killings.
In a statement on his website, Hal Turner noted that a newspaper has reported that a bill granting amnesty to illegal aliens is expected to be enacted in January, when the Democratic Party takes control of the U.S. Senate and House.
"ANY MEMBER OF CONGRESS WHO INTRODUCES, CO-SPONSORS OR VOTES IN FAVOR OF ANY SUCH AMNESTY WILL BE DECLARED A DOMESTIC ENEMY AND WILL BE CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE TARGET FOR ASSASSINATION," Turner posted on his website.
"Members of Congress and the Senate will NOT be permitted to BETRAY our nation by simply GIVING AWAY the most cherished aspect of America, Citizenship, to millions of people who cared so little for what Citizenship means that they came here against our law," he continued.
Several weeks ago, Turner incited much discussion when he posted the following:
"We may have to ASSASSINATE some of the people you elect on Nov. 7! This could be your LAST ELECTION CHANCE, to save this Republic…
"Sorry to have to be so blunt, but the country is in mortal danger from our present government and our liberty is already near dead because of this government. If you are too stupid to turn things around with your vote, there are people out here like me who are willing to turn things around with guns, force and violence. We hope our method does not become necessary," he wrote.
But he defined his position as commentary instead of advocacy when one supporter wrote to Turner's website, "Hey Hal instead of saying 'may' SAY you WILL KILL THEM!!!"
"No no no no no. Words mean things," Turner wrote at the time. The difference between 'may' and 'will' is the difference between an opinion and a threat," he concluded. "One is lawful, the other is not!"
In the current posting, Turner has taken an aggressive stance against any effort by Congress to legalize or provide a "path to citizenship" for the millions of aliens who are in the United States illegally.
"Congress will not be permitted to BETRAY our nation by giving Citizenship to tens of thousands who didn't give a s--- about our other laws as they murdered, raped, robbed, dealt illegal drugs, drove without licenses or insurance, stole the social security numbers and/or identities of millions of lawful citizens and most of whom don't give a s--- enough about our country to even learn our language!"
Asked about procedures involving suspected threats to members of Congress, the U.S. Secret Service told WND that it would be interested only if the threat involved someone the Service protects. All other cases would be referred to local police jurisdictions.
When WND's question specifically referred to a website statement, Secret Service spokesman Darrin Blackford told WND: "We have no comment on that statement."
Paul Bresson, a spokesman for the FBI, said he couldn't confirm what investigations are being pursued.
"The Internet does not give anyone a license to espouse violence, but there is a certain amount of protection, First Amendment protections, that are built in and we're mindful of those," he said.
He called it a "fine line," and said what the agency would do is look at all the information available and "make a determination" whether any crime might have been committed.
In the earlier situation FBI spokeswoman Debbie Weierman said such circumstances generally are turned over to a "duty agent" to review, but she couldn't provide other information until and unless a charge would be filed in any case.
In the current rant, Turner calls it a "right" for Americans to act in self-defense of their nation.
"Members of The United States House of Representatives or United States Senate who try to grant any form of Amnesty to millions of illegal aliens are hereby notified they may as well paint a bulls-eye target on themselves. Our Bullets don't care about their sovereign power," he wrote.
"This seems to be 'it' folks. I'm going to do what I have to do to protect my nation from its government. I know where all of my New Jersey Congressmen and Senators live. Do you know where yours live? If not, you better find out before January so you can scope out their neighborhoods and prepare yourselves," he said.
"Those of you who, for years, have said you're 'gonna do this' or 'gonna do that' when the time comes; are about to face ugly reality. In January, 'the time' will come. In January the entire world will find out if you're real or just a bigmouth coward," he said.
One reader who responded on his comment sheet asked Turner, "who's gonna pick up the fruits and clean your toilet?" To which Turner said, "Machinery can pick the crops; I clean my own toilet."
Turner also declined a suggestion to post a list of addresses and provide maps "so people can protest at their homes" by saying, "Once I publish such a list, they would undoubtedly feel the need and take steps to secure themselves. If we forewarn them by publicly publishing a list, we lose the element of surprise."
One other reader said, "I'm sitting here now with my 30.06 stripped down. Can do this in the dark. Don't want any grains of sand in the mechanism," he wrote.
Still another said he'd forwarded Turner's comments to the FBI, to which Turner responded with a laugh.
"You called the FBI about me? BIG DEAL! One can only illegally 'incite' violence when what is said is uttered in a context which lends itself to IMMINENT lawlessness. I will not be arrested because I have thus far committed no crime. Just because you don't understand the subtle delineations of the law does not mean I have broken the law. The FBI has been receiving reports about me from morons like you for six years. I'm still here. Your posting did, however, give me a chuckle!"
But his posting also continued further into his plans, and his expectations for the consequences.
"The pro-white movement has a habit of making martyrs of folks who take action. They hold rallies for them. They put up web sites about them. Just so we're clear, the only people authorized to do that for me after I become a martyr (alive or dead) are those who stand with me when the fight takes place. Because if you are, TODAY, 'pro-white' and you fail to stand with me in confronting our renegade government, then I say you are a coward and I don't want my name being uttered by cowards," he wrote.
He said the "amnesty" would mark "the actual end of our nation."
"That will erase us as a nation and I will not permit it. What about you?" he asked.
One reader was quick with his response: "Where can we get some polonium-210?" he asked.
Turner also carries on his website a disclaimer noting that he is considered a "public figure" which means a lot of places carry of lot of comments about him over which he has no control, including some with "virulent" perspectives.
"This being the case, Mr. Turner feels it necessary to – and hereby does – DISCLAIM AND REPUDIATE any affiliation with or support of such groups."
Even he didn't take his earlier statements that he may have to assassinate about half of the members of Congress and three members of the U.S. Supreme court seriously. He told WND he never bothered to make a hit list because he never planned to kill anyone.
Turner also told WND earlier he'd been investigated by the Secret Service, the U.S. Marshals Service and others in the past, without results.
He said that's because he's very careful to "use words such as 'may have' (or) 'might' which are opinions/observations rather than threats."
"I am totally familiar with three specific U.S. Supreme Court decisions and those parameters govern what I say and write," he said. He said his comments are "uttered in a context which does not lend itself to imminent lawlessness," do not constitute a "true threat," and could be considered "political hyperbole."