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Widescreen
1/3/2007, 08:40 PM
Mike Rich mentioned eugenics in the homo sheep thread. Then I ran across this article.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,241279,00.html


Her name is Ashley X, and she is the little girl who will never grow up.

Until New Year’s Day, not even her first name was known. Ashley was a faceless case study, cited in a paper by two doctors at Seattle Children’s Hospital as they outlined a treatment so radical that it brought with it allegations of “eugenics”, of creating a 21st-century Frankenstein’s monster, of maiming a child for the sake of convenience.

The reason for the controversy is this: three years ago, when Ashley began to display early signs of puberty, her parents instructed doctors to remove her uterus, appendix and still-forming breasts, then treat her with high doses of oestrogen to stunt her growth.

In other words, Ashley was sterilized and frozen in time, for ever to remain a child. She was only 6-years-old.

Ashley, the daughter of two professionals in the Seattle area, never had much hope of a normal life.

Afflicted with a severe brain impairment known as static encephalopathy, she cannot walk, talk, keep her head up in bed, or even swallow food. Her parents argued that “keeping her small” was the best way to improve the quality of her life, not to make life more convenient for them.

By remaining a child, they say, Ashley will have a better chance of avoiding everything from bed sores to pneumonia — and the removal of her uterus means that she will never have a menstrual cycle or risk developing uterine cancer.

Because Ashley was expected to have a large chest size, her parents say that removing her breast buds, including the milk glands (while keeping the nipples intact), will save her further discomfort while avoiding fibrocystic growth and breast cancer.

They also feared that large breasts could put Ashley at risk of sexual assault.

The case was approved by the hospital’s ethics committee in 2004, which agreed that because Ashley could never reproduce voluntarily she was not being subjected to forced sterilization, a form of racial cleansing promoted in the 1920s and known as eugenics (it was satirized in F. Scott Fitzgerald’s novel The Great Gatsby). However, the case of Ashley X was not made public, and, as a result, no legal challenges were ever made.

Ashley’s doctors, Daniel Gunther and Douglas Diekema, wrote in their paper for the October issue of the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine that the treatment would “remove one of the major obstacles to family care and might extend the time that parents with the ability, resources and inclination to care for their child at home might be able to do so."

The paper inspired hundreds of postings on the internet: many supportive, some disapproving but sympathetic, others furious. “I find this offensive if not perverse,” read one. “Truly a milestone in our convenience-minded society."

It was the critical comments that finally provoked Ashley’s father to respond.

While remaining anonymous, he posted a remarkable 9,000-word blog entry at 11 p.m. on New Year’s Day, justifying his decision.

The posting includes links to photographs of Ashley, in which the faces of other family members, including Ashley’s younger sister and brother, have been blanked out. “Some question how God might view this treatment,” he wrote. “The God we know wants Ashley to have a good quality of life and wants her parents to be diligent about using every resource at their disposal (including the brains that He endowed them with) to maximise her quality of life.”

Ashley’s father went on to describe how her height is now expected to remain at about 4ft 5in, and her weight at 75lb.

Without the treatment, she would have grown into a woman of average height and weight, probably about 5ft 6in and 125lb, with a normal lifespan.

The medical profession is divided. “I think most people, when they hear of this, would say this is just plain wrong,” wrote Jeffrey Brosco of the University of Miami, in an editorial. “But it is a complicated story . . . you can understand the difficulties. [But] high-dose oestrogen therapy to prevent out-of-home placement simply creates a new Sophie’s Choice for parents to confront.

“If we as a society want to revise the nature of the harrowing predicament that these parents face, then more funds for home-based services, not more medication, is what is called for.”

George Dvorsky, a director of the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies, countered: “If the concern has something to do with the girl’s dignity being violated, then I have to protest by arguing that the girl lacks the cognitive capacity to experience any sense of indignity.

“The oestrogen treatment is not what is grotesque here. Rather, it is the prospect of having a full-grown and fertile woman endowed with the mind of a baby.”

Scott D
1/3/2007, 08:49 PM
wow...I haven't figured out if I'm more horrified or disgusted.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 08:50 PM
Whoa. That's just a horrible thing for parents to have to consider.

To me this isn't a eugenics issue. To me, eugenics is the destruction of "defective" babies or the removal of someone's ability to voluntarily reproduce in order to "improve" the gene pool. As the doctor in the article said, you can't take it away because it never existed.

Personally, if Ashley isn't conscious in any meaningful way and doesn't have any hope of developing a personality or consciousness, then I don't see the point in forcing her body to stay alive at all. However, her parents obviously see things differently and I respect that.

Melo
1/3/2007, 10:59 PM
I dont know... IF what the parents say is true, then it sounds like she's isnt doing too badly, with family who love her and take care of her. It could be a LOT worse, and some children dont even get THAT much from their parents. And while it is sad having to do those things to her, well... the way they take care of her now wouldnt be as logical if she was a full grown woman.


Ashley constantly moves her arms and kicks her legs, but she is not capable of changing her sleeping position. We give her frequent position changes in bed, backrubs, and move her to more social and engaging places as often as we can. Ashley goes to school in a classroom for special needs children, which provides her with daily bus trips, activities customized for her, and a high level of attention by her teachers and therapists.

Ashley is alert and aware of her environment; she startles easily. She loves music and often gets in celebration mode of vocalizing, kicking, and swaying her arms when she really likes a song (Andrea Boccelli is her favorite – we call him her boyfriend).

Ashley has a younger sister and brother. She brings a lot of love to our family; we can’t imagine life without her. She has a sweet demeanor and often smiles and expresses delight when we visit with her, we think she recognizes us but can’t be sure. She rarely makes eye-contact even when it is clear that she is aware of a person’s presence.

http://ashleytreatment.spaces.live.com/

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:02 PM
If she's aware of her environment and conscious, then there's a moral obligation to keep her alive and as comfortable as possible. I wasn't sure that was the case.

Melo
1/3/2007, 11:12 PM
If she's aware of her environment and conscious, then there's a moral obligation to keep her alive and as comfortable as possible. I wasn't sure that was the case.

If you clickie the link and read, youll find that it seems like a lot of thought and research has gone into those decisions. I'm reading now on how, since they decided to keep her at a certain weight and heights, they can pick her up and carry her around the house, give her baths. Says she has a swing outside. Whereas if she was bigger and weighed more, she would have to have different bathing methods, and she would have to be moved with weights and pullies. I also says, because she's smaller, she is less prone to fatal infections.

SicEmBaylor
1/3/2007, 11:12 PM
I really liked their song, "Sweet Dreams."

jk the sooner fan
1/3/2007, 11:15 PM
seems to me they're doing what they think is necessary to keep her quality of life as best as it will be for as long as possible

while the procedures are shocking.....i'm not sure what they're doing is a bad thing..

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:17 PM
If you clickie the link and read, youll find that it seems like a lot of thought and research has gone into those decisions. I'm reading now on how, since they decided to keep her at a certain weight and heights, they can pick her up and carry her around the house, give her baths. Says she has a swing outside. Whereas if she was bigger and weighed more, she would have to have different bathing methods, and she would have to be moved with weights and pullies. I also says, because she's smaller, she is less prone to fatal infections.

That sounds like work, Melo. I'm on vacation until 8:30 tomorrow morning. :D

Melo
1/3/2007, 11:25 PM
That sounds like work, Melo. I'm on vacation until 8:30 tomorrow morning. :D

That's kind of why I tried to give a very basic explanation.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:33 PM
Probably a good thing. My head insulation is pretty much shut down.

Melo
1/3/2007, 11:40 PM
Probably a good thing. My head insulation is pretty much shut down.

Head insulation? You mean brains? I was told people like you dont have those. :D

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:42 PM
I don't know WHAT you smart folks call this gray stuff I can pull out of my ears, but I call it head insulation.

Melo
1/3/2007, 11:45 PM
Out of your ears? If you cleaned halfway regularly, you might not have gray stuff in your ears...

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:52 PM
I think it was too-frequent cleaning that led to the problem in the first place.

SicEmBaylor
1/3/2007, 11:54 PM
Several years ago my sister was diagnosed with Wegener's Disease which shut down her kidneys. She's treated at OU Children's in OKC, but a result of her treatment is that she was "frozen" at the developmental state she was in when she got sick. She's now 16 but she got sick just before starting puberty and I believe it's unlikely she'll ever go through it. Mentally she's developed just fine of course, but physically she still looks 12.

I'm not sure why a parent would intentionally put their child through that.

Scott D
1/3/2007, 11:54 PM
seems to me they're doing what they think is necessary to keep her quality of life as best as it will be for as long as possible

while the procedures are shocking.....i'm not sure what they're doing is a bad thing..

in her case I for the most part agree with you. However I can't get the mental image of psycho gymnastics parents, or psycho pageant parents essentially mutilating their child for a permanent childhood.

While benign with good intentions, I generally wonder where we (as a whole) are willing to draw the line on issues like this.

soonerboomer93
1/3/2007, 11:57 PM
but indoor plumming hasn't made it to alaska yet melo

SicEmBaylor
1/3/2007, 11:58 PM
By the way, I'm not saying it was wrong in this particular case. Just saying I'm not sure I could do that as a parent.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:59 PM
Several years ago my sister was diagnosed with Wegener's Disease which shut down her kidneys. She's treated at OU Children's in OKC, but a result of her treatment is that she was "frozen" at the developmental state she was in when she got sick. She's now 16 but she got sick just before starting puberty and I believe it's unlikely she'll ever go through it. Mentally she's developed just fine of course, but physically she still looks 12.

I'm not sure why a parent would intentionally put their child through that.

Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

sb93, considering that I'm at least in a first-world country where we kill food before we eat it, if I were you I'd shut my octopus hole.

Scott D
1/4/2007, 12:02 AM
Froze, I've always been curious. At any point growing up did you have a 'honey bucket'? :D

Frozen Sooner
1/4/2007, 12:03 AM
Heh. No, I was born in Anchorage in 1974, so we had indoor outhouses at that point. Septic tanks and everything. Got hooked up to citified water in 1988.

Scott D
1/4/2007, 12:05 AM
you know these guys are probably trying to search for what a honey bucket is now :)

Frozen Sooner
1/4/2007, 12:06 AM
That's just our gain, then.

How in hell do YOU know what one is?

Scott D
1/4/2007, 12:07 AM
because I have worldly know-ledge.

or perhaps because I knew some folk from an Araska high school NJROTC program who came down to visit our program for a few days. :D

BajaOklahoma
1/4/2007, 12:16 AM
Several years ago my sister was diagnosed with Wegener's Disease which shut down her kidneys. She's treated at OU Children's in OKC, but a result of her treatment is that she was "frozen" at the developmental state she was in when she got sick. She's now 16 but she got sick just before starting puberty and I believe it's unlikely she'll ever go through it. Mentally she's developed just fine of course, but physically she still looks 12.

I'm not sure why a parent would intentionally put their child through that.

SicEm, IMO your sister and the girl in the article are polar opposites. Your sister is aware of what she has and what she will miss out on. The girl in the article does not appear to be able to understand that.
We have a young man in our district, in the Senior High, who has the mental ability of a 4 month old. It will never get better. He is so tall and heavy that he has to be moved with a hoist. Because he really can't control his body, he spends all of his time in a wheelchair during the day. Hygiene is a nightmare.
I'm not sure that I agree with their decision (they didn't ask me anyway), but I can see the benefits.

I'm sorry about your sister. We have a couple of kids with Turner's Syndrome. Similar.

soonerboomer93
1/4/2007, 12:38 AM
you know these guys are probably trying to search for what a honey bucket is now :)


I'm at work and afraid to do a search on that, especially since it's something involving Alaska that both you and froze know about.

SoonerTerry
1/4/2007, 12:57 AM
Several years ago my sister was diagnosed with Wegener's Disease which shut down her kidneys. She's treated at OU Children's in OKC, but a result of her treatment is that she was "frozen" at the developmental state she was in when she got sick. She's now 16 but she got sick just before starting puberty and I believe it's unlikely she'll ever go through it. Mentally she's developed just fine of course, but physically she still looks 12.

I'm not sure why a parent would intentionally put their child through that.


My heart out to you and your family Sicem.

SicEmBaylor
1/4/2007, 01:25 AM
My heart out to you and your family Sicem.
I appreciate that.