What do we do to get back to winning big games??

[Collier11]

First of all, this is not a criticism, a gripe fest, im not saying that Stoops sucks or any of that so please dont think that. Just wondering what it takes cus we are close, we won another conf title, weve been in the big games so what do you all think we are missing??

1. Most important in my opinion is special teams, other than hartley and our kick coverage we have gone downhill big-time. We used to be dangerous in kick return but havent been the last several years and we dont get many blocks anymore which we used to do all the time

2. The recruiting is there, we just need stablity at some positions like qb and o-line which we are getting close to I think

3. Big plays, to me it didnt seem like we had as many big plays on offense or defense the past two years. By that I mean timely fakes, gutsy calls where you wouldnt expect them, momentum type plays.

This is where I would start and I could be wrong, what do you guys think?

[TUSooner]

Maybe the qualities that get us through the grind of the season and into the big game - guts, perseverance, and determination, are not the same qualities needed in a one-shot, high-pressure deal. Maybe intensity, emotion, flash, and cleverness are better. I'm thinking we just not are strategically/tactically clever enough when we go onto the big stage against top-calibre teams.

Actually, we didn't look too motivated at the FB either, at least for 55 minutes.

[RacerX]

[bob stoops]Make plays.[/bob stoops]

[LittleWingSooner]

I think we need to go back to an offense that is tough to tell what it's going to do based on formation and based on what the down is. It seems like we get to running it too often on 1st and 10 and when we have 2 TEs and we seem to almost always pass in 3 wide sets. I would like to see us run more in a 4 wide formation. If we begin a game with a quick strike offense it makes it tougher to defend our run game.

[Collier11]

Why do you guys think our special teams has gone downhill so drastically, was jonathan hayes that good of a coach or what???

[lcaldwell1]

I agree with TUSooner..it just seems like when we get to these big games, that the opposing team is more intense and emotional than we are...also i know paul thompson finished the game a lot better than he started it, but has anyone else noticed that the last 3 BCS games out quarterbacks havent really showed up to play?

[tpatton]

I agree with LittleWingSooner...remember in 2000 with Leach, you never could tell WHAT play was coming. OU has become a bit predictable, and the "stop us if you can" mentality just don't cut it in the big games against decent athletes. Also, I loved the options / misdirection plays with both AD and AP in the lineup. This wasn't a trick play, but a set formation. We need more looks and more options ala 2000 NC year. I also think part of the solution is developing a mentality similar to a USC now, a Miami of the 90's, a Nebraska of the 80's and a Oklahoma of the 70's...you knew you were going to win most of the time in the big games...its just a mindset of "I refuse to lose"...sorry to say this, but BSU had that same mentality Monday night.

[fadada1]

i looked at these stats a few weeks ago:

1998: 184 total points for the year (good lord, how'd we win 5 games)
1999: 430 total points
2000: 481 total points
2001: 397 total
2002: 541
2003: 601 total (my goodness)
2004: 452 total
2005: 323
2006: 424 (14 games)

i don't understand the big falloff. while last year we didn't necessarily have the QB to get it done, but we sure had the weapons on offense. we simply don't have those explosive games like we did (a short) 3 years ago. yes, jason white was a big part of that, but how much really has changed??? we have had amazing stability (relatively speaking) in our coaching staff and talent level. so what's the big change???

[Collier11]

Also, I loved the options / misdirection plays with both AD and AP in the lineup. This wasn't a trick play, but a set formation. We need more looks and more options ala 2000 NC year.


Agreed but that was the only trick/odd set play we ran and after we ran it 3 or 4 times it stopped working. We need more creativity without a doubt, unfortunately with a new qb again next year being most likely a true or redshirt fresh, Im sure it will be more of the same

[TopDawg]

I agree with LittleWingSooner...remember in 2000 with Leach, you never could tell WHAT play was coming. OU has become a bit predictable, and the "stop us if you can" mentality just don't cut it in the big games against decent athletes. Also, I loved the options / misdirection plays with both AD and AP in the lineup. This wasn't a trick play, but a set formation. We need more looks and more options ala 2000 NC year. I also think part of the solution is developing a mentality similar to a USC now, a Miami of the 90's, a Nebraska of the 80's and a Oklahoma of the 70's...you knew you were going to win most of the time in the big games...its just a mindset of "I refuse to lose"...sorry to say this, but BSU had that same mentality Monday night.

In 2000, Leach was at Texas Tech.

[tpatton]

Thanks TopDawg...you're right. Leach was gone, but Mangino was still running HIS offense.

[Collier11]

technically he was at OU for one game ;)

[TUSooner]

I think we need to go back to an offense that is tough to tell what it's going to do based on formation and based on what the down is. It seems like we get to running it too often on 1st and 10 and when we have 2 TEs and we seem to almost always pass in 3 wide sets. I would like to see us run more in a 4 wide formation. If we begin a game with a quick strike offense it makes it tougher to defend our run game.
Darn right. That is the essence of "tactical cleverness" or whatever it is I said we need in big games.
Predictability kills any offense, unless you can just overpower your opponent consistently. When you get to a big game, the opponent won't be overpowered; you have to outsmart them. We don't do that.

[tpatton]

We have to get back to that "eye of the tiger" stuff that I remember from the coin toss at the 2000 OB. You could see it in Marshall's eyes and the eyes of all the coaches during the game. The biggest question is "how do you TEACH that"?

[LittleWingSooner]

You don't even have to go back to 2000. In 2002 and 2003 we ran an offense from the shotgun most of the time and you couldn't tell when we would run or pass. In 2004 we won a lot because we have 3 NFL WRs and a great QB. But if you look at what we started to do it started to be more predictable. Now we don't have an NFL QB and our line is still young. And our play calling hurts our running backs.

[TopDawg]

i looked at these stats a few weeks ago:

1998: 184 total points for the year (good lord, how'd we win 5 games)
1999: 430 total points
2000: 481 total points
2001: 397 total
2002: 541
2003: 601 total (my goodness)
2004: 452 total
2005: 323
2006: 424 (14 games)

i don't understand the big falloff. while last year we didn't necessarily have the QB to get it done, but we sure had the weapons on offense. we simply don't have those explosive games like we did (a short) 3 years ago. yes, jason white was a big part of that, but how much really has changed??? we have had amazing stability (relatively speaking) in our coaching staff and talent level. so what's the big change???

Our two (maybe 3?) lowest totals under Stoops are the years where we've had the least experienced O-Line.

Coincidence? Doubt it.

[TopDawg]

Upon further review...we've also had our most inexeprienced QBs those years.

Inexeprienced O-line + Inexperienced QB = Thank God we had a good defense

[TopDawg]

Why do you guys think our special teams has gone downhill so drastically, was jonathan hayes that good of a coach or what???

I think Hayes had a lot to do with it. We had a pretty significant drop-off when he left and it's kinda steadily declined since then.

[TUSooner]

Oh yeah defense. The kind that stuffed FSU & tejas, and shut out Arkansas would be OK.

[fadada1]

Upon further review...we've also had our most inexeprienced QBs those years.

Inexeprienced O-line + Inexperienced QB = Thank God we had a good defense
how experienced was our line in 2000?

biggest thing about that was lack of serious injury.

tpatton is right, however, there isn't that raw, unbridled courage like 5-6 years ago. we seem to play with a "feer of failure" (to use a sport psychology term). almost like we're scared to do something wrong.

[Collier11]

I think Hayes had a lot to do with it. We had a pretty significant drop-off when he left and it's kinda steadily declined since then.
In the last 4 seasons our kickoff return yardage leader was 25.9, 20.9, 19.7, 20.3 That just doesnt cut it. We used to be deadly on ko returns

[TopDawg]

[bob stoops]Make plays.[/bob stoops]

Seriously. We beat Boise State going away if we connect on any one of those 4 deep passes downfield. Instead, one gets picked off and one puts Kelly in a compromised position, possibly putting him out of the game (I'm assuming that's when he got hurt...not sure).

Totally atypical of most Stoops teams, we've beaten ourselves in our last 3 BCS bowl games. Most good teams can survive turnovers when they happen past your own 30 yard line, but (off the top of my head) we were minus one (at least) in those types of turnovers against LSU and USC, and even against BSU (2-2) and plus one against FSU. Look closely and you'll see a trend.

[TopDawg]

In the last 4 seasons our kickoff return yardage leader was 25.9, 20.9, 19.7, 20.3 That just doesnt cut it. We used to be deadly on ko returns

Daniels, Thatcher and Savage were scary. Of course Perkins was good on punts, but he didn't do too much on KOs did he?

I wonder, though, if it has more to do with play-calling/blocking. Texas killed us by kicking to the sidelines and Boise got a few over on us by doing the same. On that one return, they kick it all the way to their left and we try to return it back to their right. Is it any wonder we got blasted at the 15? I don't know enough about how that stuff works, but it seems like we're either blocking worse on KOs now, or our play-calling has changed for the worse or been figured out.

[Collier11]

Weve seen that Reggie can break long runs if he has good blocking, I think our blocking is bad but I could be wrong. ALso, as far as momentum type plays that ive mentioned, weve only blocked 7 kicks the past 4 years and our turnover ration has to be close to even which is not typical of Stoops coached teams. Again, im not criticizing, just trying to put myself in Coach Stoops chair for a few minutes and figure out how to change some things up

[fadada1]

I don't know enough about how that stuff works...
no kidding;)

[OUWxGuesser]

We have to get back to that "eye of the tiger" stuff that I remember from the coin toss at the 2000 OB. You could see it in Marshall's eyes and the eyes of all the coaches during the game. The biggest question is "how do you TEACH that"?

Be the underdog when you have nothing to lose (like in 2000)???

[fadada1]

the thing i always notice on offense, is how we are ineffective (or simply don't do it) at "seem" passes. we tend to throw a lot at sidelines. and i've never thought we use our TE near enough.

[LittleWingSooner]

Not since Trent Smith left. We only go to the sidelines with our TEs too. We never throw to our TEs over the middle of the field even though they are all really tall and really big. There's not a LB that is tall enough to cover em.

[TopDawg]

Weve seen that Reggie can break long runs if he has good blocking, I think our blocking is bad but I could be wrong. ALso, as far as momentum type plays that ive mentioned, weve only blocked 7 kicks the past 4 years and our turnover ration has to be close to even which is not typical of Stoops coached teams. Again, im not criticizing, just trying to put myself in Coach Stoops chair for a few minutes and figure out how to change some things up

I can't help but think that a lot of this has to do with poor recruiting decisions after our NC win. It's left us with less-than-ideal depth at many positions and we've had to move people around and rely on youth as a result. I think that keeps us from being as aggressive as we'd like to be...too much inexperience at too many different positions.

I hope that's the reason, anyway. It gives me more hope that things will get back to how they were.

[RedGiant]

From looking at the offensive stats posted earlier in this thread I'd say the most glaring difference is defense. Since Mike left it hasn't had the same emotion, enthusiasm, or aggresiveness it once had. The D used to control the game. Now it hangs on by its fingernails and sometimes not even that. The defense used to provide impetus, now it prays the offense grinds out the football game. I don't think Wilson is a great OC by any stretch of the mind. He lacks ingenuity and guts to make THE call, but he does know how to grind out a football game which works well with what we currently have. Until the D can dominate good teams again, the big games are always gonna be a point away.

[OUmillenium]

Lots of good points which supports the idea that it is not 1 factor causing us to lose BCS games.

1) Inexperience - in the line and at QB - I love PT but he was still not a "seasoned vet" at the end of the year

2) Attrition in the coaching staff - Venables and crew are OK but we have not had the same "fire" since Mike Stoops and Mangino left

3) Offensive predictability - year by year we are going more strongly to predictable running plays rather than the spread that won us an MNC

The good news...
1.We have a lot of talent coming back - need to develope a qb though

2.Josh Heupel is on staff and someday will be allowed to open up the offense enough to avoid the ridiculous predictability which has held this team back for years. Someday we will see the shuffle pass, more than 1 reverse a game, multiple passes to TE, etc.

Great job winning the Big 12 PT and crew, let's do it again in 07 with a new qb!

[TopDawg]

Not since Trent Smith left. We only go to the sidelines with our TEs too. We never throw to our TEs over the middle of the field even though they are all really tall and really big. There's not a LB that is tall enough to cover em.

I wonder if that has more to do with our QB experience. They may be calling those plays differently or the QBs may just be more comfortable throwing where there is (typically) less traffic.

[Collier11]

I certainly dont think its the talent level cus if you look at the fiesta bowl and even the big12 title game against kstae(until the 3rd qt) and the lsu game, we played horrible and still could have won the games. That is a sign of a good team, we just have to start putting 4qts together

[Collier11]

Lots of good points which supports the idea that it is not 1 factor causing us to lose BCS games.

1) Inexperience - in the line and at QB - I love PT but he was still not a "seasoned vet" at the end of the year

2) Attrition in the coaching staff - Venables and crew are OK but we have not had the same "fire" since Mike Stoops and Mangino left

3) Offensive predictability - year by year we are going more strongly to predictable running plays rather than the spread that won us an MNC

The good news...
1.We have a lot of talent coming back - need to develope a qb though

2.Josh Heupel is on staff and someday will be allowed to open up the offense enough to avoid the ridiculous predictability which has held this team back for years. Someday we will see the shuffle pass, more than 1 reverse a game, multiple passes to TE, etc.

Great job winning the Big 12 PT and crew, let's do it again in 07 with a new qb!

well said

[Collier11]

Two things that other posters just made me think about, one is that we tend to forget how bad brent rawls recruiting class hurt us( I think it was 2001?) and how good of a job Heupel has done the second half of last year with bomar and this year with thompson. Im pumped to see what he can do with good athletes with good heads on their shoulders like Bradford and Nichol

[LittleWingSooner]

I wonder if that has more to do with our QB experience. They may be calling those plays differently or the QBs may just be more comfortable throwing where there is (typically) less traffic.

Maybe but I don't remember us throwing it over the middle with White as a senior near as often as we did with Trent Smith. Even then we were going more toward WR on the sidelines.

[TopDawg]

I think part of it also has to do with our fan's cockiness. There is an incredible amount of jinxing that goes on here at Soonerfans.com and bad mojo all around. It all started with the Casey Studdard thread. Damn 04 and picasso for screwing us over.

[Collier11]

that an Ou fans, even myself from time to time expect perfection, heaven forbid we put together the second most winning program of this decade with a natl title, three appearances, 5 bcs bowls, and 4 conf titles. What a bunch of bums we are ;)

[TopDawg]

Maybe but I don't remember us throwing it over the middle with White as a senior near as often as we did with Trent Smith. Even then we were going more toward WR on the sidelines.

Well we didn't HAVE to go to our TEs in 2004. We had Clayton, Bradley and Jones. TE was like option 5 most of the time.

[LittleWingSooner]

Two things that other posters just made me think about, one is that we tend to forget how bad brent rawls recruiting class hurt us( I think it was 2001?) and how good of a job Heupel has done the second half of last year with bomar and this year with thompson. Im pumped to see what he can do with good athletes with good heads on their shoulders like Bradford and Nichol

And it'll probably be a tough go for those 2 in the beginning of the season. Especially with 2 tough teams in Miami and Tulsa early on. Texas is early in the season also. The only young QB that has looked good under Stoops was Jason White in 2001.

[Collier11]

one more thing we need is better pressure from the d-line, it would be nice if we didnt have to rely on blitzes to get pressure all the time, please let granger and mccoy pan out :)

[LittleWingSooner]

I agree with that too. Losing 2 LBs and 3 DEs won't help that. We will need to get more of a push from our tackles on defense. We haven't really gotten that this year.

[Collier11]

LB should be fine with lofton, pleasant, reynolds, robinson, box, etc...I think anyway, but we need mccoy, granger, williams, bennett, dotson, beal, etc to get us something on the line

[Collier11]

Im getting so much accomplished at work today ;)

[Collier11]

Going back to the blitzing topic, do we just call the wrong ones at the wrong times or what. I hear all the time about teams being creative with their blitzes and you see teams like lsu, ohio state, florida, etc that have no problems getting pressure, is it our schemes or just bad timing or what??

[cvsooner]

Reggie Smith has to be smarter about fielding punts, too. You've got to know where you are on the field. He didn't bobble any, but man, fair catching it at the five is just not smart football. How many times did he fair catch it inside the 20 in the Fiesta? Way too many.

[TopDawg]

Going back to the blitzing topic, do we just call the wrong ones at the wrong times or what. I hear all the time about teams being creative with their blitzes and you see teams like lsu, ohio state, florida, etc that have no problems getting pressure, is it our schemes or just bad timing or what??

It seems like we send a lot of "spread" blitzes. The advantage, I guess, is that we have people coming from all directions. The disadvantage is that it's easier for a disciplined team to pick up because they just all have to get the guy running at them. It seemed like in 2000 we did more concentrated blitzes where we'd flood one area and overwhelm the blockers in that area and make it harder for help to come from somewhere else. It was almost like we were running a lead play on defense. Our defensive line would open a hole, the first blitzer would take on the running back and the second one would take on the QB.

I also noticed that some of our blitzers would slow down in the Fiesta Bowl. They'd run all the way to the blocker and then just stop. At least hit the guy. Maybe you'll knock him into the QB or something. You're sure not going to do anything by just stopping.

[bosworthsteroidmafia]

I think we just give up too many big plays. The defense will play tough and stout for most of a game, stuff the run, but get absolutely burned a couple of times... and those times seem to make all the difference.

As much as I love Reggie and Marcus (and lendy, clayton, harris, carter and all my sooners), I think our secondary has to play better the entire game.

[Collier11]

busts are going to happen, we just cant give up td's because of them

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Going back to the blitzing topic, do we just call the wrong ones at the wrong times or what. I hear all the time about teams being creative with their blitzes and you see teams like lsu, ohio state, florida, etc that have no problems getting pressure, is it our schemes or just bad timing or what??

None of the above, Collier. Not from what I've seen.

Venables, especially in the late season, really unhitched the chain with his defensive looks. From base Nickel, unbalanced 4-3, the 3-3 stack, unbalanced 3-3, you name it, he mixed it up and mixed it up well as the secondary began to finally show signs of life from Bob throwin' down the gauntlet and hammering fundamentals. From that was born an attacking defense where regardless of where, a certain defensive consistency was born. Bring 4 or 5. Mix it up. Never keep it the same. And keep the opposing offensive front with their heads on a swivel, which in turn, if successful, forces the offense to play to your defense, and not the other way around. Classic example of the concept is the Baylor game. Watch that scheme. It's beautiful, aggressive in its calls, yet plays right into the hands of Stoops' preference of zone coverage. And it's the exact same thing Boise saw, but they did a fantastic job of picking it up regardless of where it came from.

Thing is, you have to have not necessarily lights out, but reliable play from all aspects of the defense for it to work. You have to have solid safety play to bring your Nickel up. You have to have solid line play to get success from the linebackers both in space and at the point of attack. You have to have solid corner play to ease the load on the safeties. That didn't happen early, our defense was amazingly vanilla, and was gettin' torched like a fat man in a horse race. Now, we're seeing the defense as designed. Attacking from many different angles, either from line twists, LB blitzes and stunts, or safety blitzes, veiled looks by base set and the variety of blitz packages, all while never sacrificing coverage over the top. Generating pressure instead of having to depend on your defensive front to do it. Which plays to gap responsibility on the front (another early problem on the DL) and freed up linebackers, which works amazingly to bolster run defense, an obvious problem early on.

So no, it's not scheme. Scheme is the last of our problems on the defensive side. The coaching philosophy is there, always has been. That much is evident from the difference in defensive playcalling from UAB to now. They've schemed to fix an existing hole, our interior defensive front, and did a pretty dang good job. Give credit where credit's due, and that's to the coaching staff. Breakdowns have been almost wholly on player personnel.

[Collier11]

None of the above, Collier. Not from what I've seen.

Venables, especially in the late season, really unhitched the chain with his defensive looks. From base Nickel, unbalanced 4-3, the 3-3 stack, unbalanced 3-3, you name it, he mixed it up and mixed it up well as the secondary began to finally show signs of life from Bob throwin' down the gauntlet and hammering fundamentals. From that was born an attacking defense where regardless of where, a certain defensive consistency was born. Bring 4 or 5. Mix it up. Never keep it the same. And keep the opposing offensive front with their heads on a swivel, which in turn, if successful, forces the offense to play to your defense, and not the other way around. Classic example of the concept is the Baylor game. Watch that scheme. It's beautiful, aggressive in its calls, yet plays right into the hands of Stoops' preference of zone coverage. And it's the exact same thing Boise saw, but they did a fantastic job of picking it up regardless of where it came from.

Thing is, you have to have not necessarily lights out, but reliable play from all aspects of the defense for it to work. You have to have solid safety play to bring your Nickel up. You have to have solid line play to get success from the linebackers both in space and at the point of attack. You have to have solid corner play to ease the load on the safeties. That didn't happen early, our defense was amazingly vanilla, and was gettin' torched like a fat man in a horse race. Now, we're seeing the defense as designed. Attacking from many different angles, either from line twists, LB blitzes and stunts, or safety blitzes, veiled looks by base set and the variety of blitz packages, all while never sacrificing coverage over the top. Generating pressure instead of having to depend on your defensive front to do it. Which plays to gap responsibility on the front (another early problem on the DL) and freed up linebackers, which works amazingly to bolster run defense, an obvious problem early on.

So no, it's not scheme. Scheme is the last of our problems on the defensive side. The coaching philosophy is there, always has been. That much is evident from the difference in defensive playcalling from UAB to now. They've schemed to fix an existing hole, our interior defensive front, and did a pretty dang good job. Give credit where credit's due, and that's to the coaching staff. Breakdowns have been almost wholly on player personnel.


You say they picked them up and they were good blitzes which I am not disputing, but isnt the point of the blitz to bring more than they can block? So does that mean we have people running into the same blocker or taking bad angles or what??

[TopDawg]

Part of the problem in the fiesta bowl was that we missed tackles once we got there...either via blitz or straight d-line pressure. If you blitz and get to the QB and he gets away, you're worse off for it.

[westcoast_sooner]

T-Town Fireman
Saw in a different post something about Venables using LBs in a nickel rather than DBs. To me, if that's true, that's a problem with scheme. I honestly can't tell you if that's what I've seen or not, just seems that another poster mentioned it.

Also, you mention the Baylor game as an example of how we got pressure. True. That's the only game this season where we had more than one or two sacks.

I love bringing pressure. It puts the offense in long yardage situations, it causes turnovers and mistakes, and gets us the ball back. But when I look at the game on Monday, and also review most earlier games this year, I see that even when we bring pressure, a lot of times we don't get the desired result.

Help me out. I'm confused.

[TripleOption14]

I just want to see the blitzes disguised a little better. Don't coaches normally hold camps where other coaches can go and learn new stuff? If Veneables would sit down with Monte Kiffen for 3 days i think he would come out with a more complete understanding of how to blitz and how to disguise it. If one watches Monte Kiffen's D it is a thing of beauty when its hitting. Of course i know they have guys like Porter, Polomalu, Foote, and Farrior to make it work but you get the point. haha :D

[Oldnslo]

The Big XII Championship wasn't a big game?

dang.

[TopDawg]

Blitzes in a 3-4 are always more fun to watch than blitzes in a 4-3.

[TopDawg]

The Big XII Championship wasn't a big game?

dang.

It was A big game. Collier wants to know how we get back to winning big gameS. Plural.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Help me out. I'm confused.

You betcha, Westcoast. It's really simple when you break it down.

As was, and is obvious, we're not exactly shatterin' the world with our interior defensive line. So as you'll see in every program in the country, you play and scheme to cover where you lack. So we got this. Speed. Smart, experienced linebackers. Quality at the DE spot. A preference for zone. So what do you, as a coach do? You take the onus OFF of the interior defensive line for pressure and play to gap responsibility, which in turn supports a fast moving, read and react style. We couldn't do that early on, and worked block reads and lateral movement to the point of attack at the line of scrimmage, which is why the zone read popped us consistently for large gains in the early season. The zone read works off the cutback and openings on the backside against an aggressive defensive front that fights through blocks to reach the ballcarrier. We didn't have the horses up front to do that, and got schooled. So we shift gears, prioritize gap responsibility and upfield movement, and help with pressure through the use of blitz packages because simply put, we didn't have the guns this year to A) load the box and let our corners pick up the slack, B) load the DL to keep the LBs clean and flowing, or C) change to a base 7 man front, again relying on the secondary to pick up the slack. Instead...

Work out of a 6 man front, which gives you the extra DB. Bring the extra DB up for shallow 2s and still have the ability to run cover 2 with the extra body in space for run support. However, once the secondary decided to settle down, you can bring that Nickel to support your attacking scheme so that the blitz isn't always from the linebackers, you're not sacrificing a corner to crack from space, and you can still keep safeties back so you're golden in the deep thirds. Which in turn helps your d-line out because again, you're not depending on upfield pressure to get pressure. You're creating pressure without sacrifice, because you can have a Nic Harris crack or cover. You can bring Zach or Rufus and still have a body in coverage for the underneath withOUT relying on a safety to come up, hurting your already soft corners. And it comes from all different directions, as you, as a DC, can bring it from whereever you want to because what you're using to create pressure is already in space. Not tied up on the defensive line.

When it's clicking, it's actually pretty dang beautiful. And through scheme, it covers the known weaknesses of the squad while still allowing you to attack and keep an offense playing to you, not the other way around. And while not that successful in regards to generating sacks, it did wonders for stiffening the run defense, gave the corners the help they so badly needed, and still keeps you fast on the field. And that's what can be confusing, because while there's bodies flying all over the field, you're again not sacrificing an aspect of the defense. You're still bringing four to six guys to the quarterback, have people in space flowing to the football, and have help over the top.

After seeing the eventual transition and the job the coaching staff did in creating it, I'm sold. I had some serious doubts in Venables last couple of seasons, but no more after finally paying close attention to the process instead of the results. Between him and Stoops, those guys could build a defense out of two sticks, some bubble gum and a rock.

[Monster Zero]

First of all, this is not a criticism, a gripe fest, im not saying that Stoops sucks or any of that so please dont think that. Just wondering what it takes cus we are close, we won another conf title, weve been in the big games so what do you all think we are missing??

1. Most important in my opinion is special teams, other than hartley and our kick coverage we have gone downhill big-time. We used to be dangerous in kick return but havent been the last several years and we dont get many blocks anymore which we used to do all the time

2. The recruiting is there, we just need stablity at some positions like qb and o-line which we are getting close to I think

3. Big plays, to me it didnt seem like we had as many big plays on offense or defense the past two years. By that I mean timely fakes, gutsy calls where you wouldnt expect them, momentum type plays.

This is where I would start and I could be wrong, what do you guys think?
Score more points than the other guys, that's how.

Just kidding.

I don't know how, I'm just a volunteer assistant coach. I'll say what a friend of mine said, though. He said that our defense doesn't dominate big games the way it once did. I'll leave it at that because I can't say realistically what the solution would be. He didn't say anything about the offense.

[wishbonesooner]

Because I see several high school games a year, I've noticed over the last 10 years or so, that a good tackling high school player is a rarity. I think our defensive coaches are pretty good at schemes and blitz packages, but maybe a little lax on teaching good fundamental tackling. I can remember TV announcers commenting on how good tacklers our defense was. Somewhere along the way that changed. I have a suspicion it was about Mike moving along, but I'm not at practices to see that.
I'd like to see Bob do what Pete Carroll did(and maybe still does), and that's get involved on a day to day basis with our defense. Our secondary mimics what I see from BV on the sidelines, running around like crazy, screaming and hollering, tearing the headphones off, etc. Bob might be a calming,steady influence.

[TopDawg]

I remember one year...right around 2000, 2001, when I was watching...I dunno...an early-season ACC game...and I was baffled at the number of missed tackles because you NEVER saw that from us. It's become too common lately.

[getrdone]

someon please post this as a new thread because it won't let me.

here is what i am hacked about. after the game, by the pool wearing shades-stoops him self seems to be satisfied, where is that fire and brimstone attitude? the fans shouldnt' be the only ones ****ed-stoops could show some anger, some fire, cuss, stomp, gripe, call out players, call out staff members and say, were going to get this fixed and get back to kicking ***, if he did, he would have more of a chance of getting a pass for his language and attitud than he is for the debacle of the last bcs games we have lost.

again, i can't start new topics, so someone please get this going.

[Collier11]

The Big XII Championship wasn't a big game?

dang.

Try reading the post, I talked about the big 12 title in the opening of this thread

[TripleOption14]

someon please post this as a new thread because it won't let me.

here is what i am hacked about. after the game, by the pool wearing shades-stoops him self seems to be satisfied, where is that fire and brimstone attitude? the fans shouldnt' be the only ones ****ed-stoops could show some anger, some fire, cuss, stomp, gripe, call out players, call out staff members and say, were going to get this fixed and get back to kicking ***, if he did, he would have more of a chance of getting a pass for his language and attitud than he is for the debacle of the last bcs games we have lost.

again, i can't start new topics, so someone please get this going.


I got the complete opposite from those interviews. I think that was Stoops trying to control his emotions and answer the questions asked without pulling a "Dennis Green." If you watch he pauses a lot before answering. He seemed really and geuinely upset. He also looks like the season has taken a toll on him and he was ready for a break.

[Rocker]

Why do you guys think our special teams has gone downhill so drastically, was jonathan hayes that good of a coach or what???

YES !!! HE WAS

[tulsaoilerfan]

Part of the problem in the fiesta bowl was that we missed tackles once we got there...either via blitz or straight d-line pressure. If you blitz and get to the QB and he gets away, you're worse off for it.
Missed tackles has been a problem for a couple of years now, at least; how many times did we have a guy in position to make a tackle and they missed? Meanwhile, our receivers seem to always get tackled in the open field; where's Mark clayton when you need him?

[tulsaoilerfan]

I also think we have been paying the price the last 2 seasons for all the flame outs, drop outs, and transfers from the 2002 and 2003 recruiting classes; those guys should be Juniors and Senior providing us with stability and leadership, yet we only have like what, 10 seniors on the entire roster? IF we can find a QB next season, the next 2 seasons could be pretty special for the Sooners.

[Octavian]

again, i can't start new topics...

there's a good reason for that.

[AimForCenterMass]

Everything that has been said so far...

...plus, recruit more Oklahoma kids who want to win at OU and aren't just looking to make the jump to the NFL.

I want to see the youngsters who grew up dreaming of wearing the crimson and cream. I want to see passion in the eyes of those who are fortunate enough and blessed with a body and talent enough to play for a program such as OU.

You see, if you're a blue chip from Texas, you go to Oklahoma because you expect to play. Sure, they're playing for one of the greatest programs of all time, but that's not how they see it. They're doing Oklahoma a favor by suiting up. (In their eyes of course) I want to see the kids who would kill to wear the paperclip logo on their helmet. You have to play with passion. I've noticed the last couple of teams missing that.

[westcoast_sooner]

You betcha, Westcoast. It's really simple when you break it down.

As was, and is obvious, we're not exactly shatterin' the world with our interior defensive line. So as you'll see in every program in the country, you play and scheme to cover where you lack. So we got this. Speed. Smart, experienced linebackers. Quality at the DE spot. A preference for zone. So what do you, as a coach do? You take the onus OFF of the interior defensive line for pressure and play to gap responsibility, which in turn supports a fast moving, read and react style. We couldn't do that early on, and worked block reads and lateral movement to the point of attack at the line of scrimmage, which is why the zone read popped us consistently for large gains in the early season. The zone read works off the cutback and openings on the backside against an aggressive defensive front that fights through blocks to reach the ballcarrier. We didn't have the horses up front to do that, and got schooled. So we shift gears, prioritize gap responsibility and upfield movement, and help with pressure through the use of blitz packages because simply put, we didn't have the guns this year to A) load the box and let our corners pick up the slack, B) load the DL to keep the LBs clean and flowing, or C) change to a base 7 man front, again relying on the secondary to pick up the slack. Instead...

Work out of a 6 man front, which gives you the extra DB. Bring the extra DB up for shallow 2s and still have the ability to run cover 2 with the extra body in space for run support. However, once the secondary decided to settle down, you can bring that Nickel to support your attacking scheme so that the blitz isn't always from the linebackers, you're not sacrificing a corner to crack from space, and you can still keep safeties back so you're golden in the deep thirds. Which in turn helps your d-line out because again, you're not depending on upfield pressure to get pressure. You're creating pressure without sacrifice, because you can have a Nic Harris crack or cover. You can bring Zach or Rufus and still have a body in coverage for the underneath withOUT relying on a safety to come up, hurting your already soft corners. And it comes from all different directions, as you, as a DC, can bring it from whereever you want to because what you're using to create pressure is already in space. Not tied up on the defensive line.

When it's clicking, it's actually pretty dang beautiful. And through scheme, it covers the known weaknesses of the squad while still allowing you to attack and keep an offense playing to you, not the other way around. And while not that successful in regards to generating sacks, it did wonders for stiffening the run defense, gave the corners the help they so badly needed, and still keeps you fast on the field. And that's what can be confusing, because while there's bodies flying all over the field, you're again not sacrificing an aspect of the defense. You're still bringing four to six guys to the quarterback, have people in space flowing to the football, and have help over the top.

After seeing the eventual transition and the job the coaching staff did in creating it, I'm sold. I had some serious doubts in Venables last couple of seasons, but no more after finally paying close attention to the process instead of the results. Between him and Stoops, those guys could build a defense out of two sticks, some bubble gum and a rock.

T-Town - thanks for the explanation. I have to ponder this, as I think you probably know a heck of a lot more about defenses than I ever will.

I think in one of these posts, you mentioned something like the breakdowns are due to personnel rather than scheme. Does that, in your opinion, go back to what seems to me to be a pretty complicated scheme and the kids just not getting it, or the kids just not executing on occasion? I can understand the latter - everyone makes mistakes. The former comes back to coaching, IMO.

[AzianSooner]

I truly believe that we need a REAL GOOD defensive coach. Or, Bob has to be very involves into the defense.

Otherwise, i don't see OUr defense can be as outstanding as 2000-2003

[RedGiant]

T-Town - thanks for the explanation. I have to ponder this, as I think you probably know a heck of a lot more about defenses than I ever will.

I think in one of these posts, you mentioned something like the breakdowns are due to personnel rather than scheme. Does that, in your opinion, go back to what seems to me to be a pretty complicated scheme and the kids just not getting it, or the kids just not executing on occasion? I can understand the latter - everyone makes mistakes. The former comes back to coaching, IMO.
It's all coming down to the defensive line being blocked in a text book manner. They are being controlled from the snap of the ball. Once that happens then it is very easy to attack the linebackers. This defense is based heavily on keeping the Linebackers free and running. If you watch film from when Mike was here you can see the line getting in their gaps and controlling the offensive linemen, breaking double teams, and forcing the entire line to react to them. This isn't happening with these guys.