One positive from last night, the refs called a good game

[usmc-sooner]

at least the refs didn't screw us :D

[Scotty]

I am very suprised there wasn't more booth reviews. Not a bad thing, but I'm just so used to every significant play being looked at and slowing the game down. Good form, Big Ten.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Wasn't it ACC refs? They did call a good game. I hope the Big XII was noticing...

[Scotty]

I thought it was big ten, but now that I think about it, I may be remembering a different game. Can someone clarify this?

[usmc-sooner]

I think they were Big 10

[dougsooner]

Yeah, the bsu QB wasn't moving towards the line on the OT touchdown or anything.... great jorb....

[MamaMia]

I was thinking they were from the big 10 as well. At first I was a bit scared about possible referee agendas all over again, when the little girl who flipped the coin got this odd look on her face. It looked as if she was surprised at who the refs announced won the toss. Then when we finally got a good run going and got that holding call, at a possible momentum interrupting time, I started to worry. I always remember Barry Switzer saying that referees could call holding on every play if they wanted to.

In the refs defense I suppose I'm still a paranoid after last years Texas Tech and UCLA games, and then this years Oregon officiating, that in my opinion, actually cost us the games.

[Scotty]

That odd look was probably credited to her hitting boom microphone with the coin. Probably one of embarassment anyways. Amateur.

[dmacisdaman]

Do you guys believe that there was actual pass interference on the first 2-point try?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Big time...

[Scotty]

No doubt.

[OUscarb]

What about us burning back to back time outs because the refs didn't call BSU for breaking the huddle with 12 players? OOops

[dmacisdaman]

You don't think that there was equal pushing and shoving?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Nope

[MamaMia]

That odd look was probably credited to her hitting boom microphone with the coin. Probably one of embarassment anyways. Amateur.So thats what it was about. She sure was a cute little girl. :D

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

They did give us some crappy spots early and gave BSU a really good spot when Johnson bobbled that pass early. I swear Johnson fumbled at the end too.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Do you guys believe that there was actual pass interference on the first 2-point try?
Yes. Clearly the BSU DB didnt allow the OU receiver(drawing a blank on the name #84) to make a play on the ball. Good call.

[Alum81]

I was thinking they were from the big 10 as well. At first I was a bit scared about possible referee agendas all over again, when the little girl who flipped the coin got this odd look on her face. It looked as if she was surprised at who the refs announced won the toss...

This was that little girl:

http://www.thegolfblog.com/Natalie%20Gulbis%20calendar.jpg

It's her fault for screwing up the coin toss!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I'll bite, who is she? and do we care?

I thought the whole coin toss thing was stupid and gay...The camera idiots were in the way.

[Sooner Eclipse]

Well, concerning the refs, there is this little jewel. :mad: Looks like Zabranski was in motion on the 4th and 2 in OT, started skipping forward about a yard and didn't get set before the snap. I believe that should be an illegal shift/motion penalty on a pretty significant play. They called a similar penalty on the TE on our 2pt conversion for illegal shift where the 2nd TE was in motion but did get set just before the snap of the ball.

Can someone clarify our illegal motion penalty? Does that TE have to be in a set position for a period of time before the snap or just in position and not moving?


Link : look at the 37 sec mark (http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=23573)

[SoonerMom2]

Well, concerning the refs, there is this little jewel. :mad: Looks like Zabranski was in motion on the 4th and 2 in OT, started skipping forward about a yard and didn't get set before the snap. I believe that should be an illegal shift/motion penalty on a pretty significant play. They called a similar penalty on the TE on our 2pt conversion for illegal shift where the 2nd TE was in motion but did get set just before the snap of the ball.

Can someone clarify our illegal motion penalty? Does that TE have to be in a set position for a period of time before the snap or just in position and not moving?


Link : look at the 37 sec mark (http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=23573)

That's how we saw it as well. BSU should have been flagged but the Big 10 officiating is no different then when I grew up in Buckeye terroritory. My Dad always said the Big 10 had the worst refs and only could see penalties when they wanted to see them. Otherwise, they were blind like when BSU had 12 men in the huddle and the ref didn't notice.

[sooner518]

I mean, yea, it sucks they missed him moving forward, but I would be alot more ****ed off if the guy who caught the pass had done it. It really had no bearing on the play

[Harry Beanbag]

I could swear Johnson's knee never touched the ground when he fumbled on their OT series. At least it looked like that on the big screen.

And if it wasn't for all the intentional pass interference by Boise, offensive and defensive, we win the game. Smart strategy by them.

[Sooner Eclipse]

I mean, yea, it sucks they missed him moving forward, but I would be alot more ****ed off if the guy who caught the pass had done it. It really had no bearing on the play

I agree that it had no bearing on the play. But JJF just barely getting set before the snap of the ball had no effect on Gresham catching the fade for the 2 point conversion.

Point is they should have had to do it yet again like we did from 5 yards further back.

[Ruuuuuufus]

I could swear Johnson's knee never touched the ground when he fumbled on their OT series. At least it looked like that on the big screen.

For the record I thought his knee was down, but after the game Ian Johnson claimed that he fumbled and it was a bad call.

[BigRedJed]

I could swear Johnson's knee never touched the ground when he fumbled on their OT series. At least it looked like that on the big screen.

And if it wasn't for all the intentional pass interference by Boise, offensive and defensive, we win the game. Smart strategy by them.
It didn't touch. I hesitate to even mention it right now, because we've developed a reputation for whining about calls. Let me start by saying that OU still should have found a way to stop all of the crazy plays at the end, and that BSU is actually a team deserving of a win here.

But Johnson's knee never touched the turf before the ball squirted out. 99.9% of the people watching the game in Oklahoma don't know this, because the FOX signal isn't available in Hi-def (widescreen) via cable, and a huge number of people still don't even have HD. I happened to be watching the live, over-the-air feed in HD widescreen format (with a tuner, not a cable box). There was one angle that clearly showed his knee never touched, and then the back of the hand he was carrying the ball in hit the turf, knocking the ball loose.

And yes, I know the replay SEEMS to show definitively that his knee went down. The problem is that the camera this came from was shooting from a very low angle (Maybe even below shoulder-mount), and the crown of the field was BETWEEN the camera and Johnson. Yeah, it really looked like his knee went down, but it was an optical illusion caused by the crown. The first replay, which wasn't shown again, was from a camera that was more like eye-level, and in super slow-mo made it really clear his knee was about 2"-3" above the turf until after the ball was out. Unfortunately, the announcers missed it.

Also, unfortunately, we couldn't DVR the over-the-air signal or I would try to figure out how to post a screen cap. We switched over to the regular digital signal, which we were capturing on the DVR, but his knee was cut off of the screen in that picture. Therefore, anyone watching the regular format would never have seen it.

The ball was out, OU recovered. Missed on the field (I certainly can't blame the refs, had to be super slo-mo to catch it), and I have no idea whether the review official has widescreen etc. I'm not mad about it like I was Oregon. In this case, it just seems like an easily missed call (although again, it would have ended the game with OU the winner). It also seems like a poetic bookend to this season. In this case it just reinforces my opinion that replay doesn't do what it was envisioned to do, and is a failed experiment.

Hats off to BSU, though. They played an inspired game.

[StormySooner-IN]

I can't stop starring at this picture: http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/authors/logo/2830/200

[StormySooner-IN]

I can't stop starring at this picture: http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/authors/logo/2830/200It is off of another Sooner's Avatar on Sportsline.

[TXBOOMER]

at least the refs didn't screw us :D

Leatherneck, some people think you are serious.
:texan:

[jagwelborn]

It didn't touch. I hesitate to even mention it right now, because we've developed a reputation for whining about calls. Let me start by saying that OU still should have found a way to stop all of the crazy plays at the end, and that BSU is actually a team deserving of a win here.

But Johnson's knee never touched the turf before the ball squirted out. 99.9% of the people watching the game in Oklahoma don't know this, because the FOX signal isn't available in Hi-def (widescreen) via cable, and a huge number of people still don't even have HD. I happened to be watching the live, over-the-air feed in HD widescreen format (with a tuner, not a cable box). There was one angle that clearly showed his knee never touched, and then the back of the hand he was carrying the ball in hit the turf, knocking the ball loose.

And yes, I know the replay SEEMS to show definitively that his knee went down. The problem is that the camera this came from was shooting from a very low angle (Maybe even below shoulder-mount), and the crown of the field was BETWEEN the camera and Johnson. Yeah, it really looked like his knee went down, but it was an optical illusion caused by the crown. The first replay, which wasn't shown again, was from a camera that was more like eye-level, and in super slow-mo made it really clear his knee was about 2"-3" above the turf until after the ball was out. Unfortunately, the announcers missed it.

Also, unfortunately, we couldn't DVR the over-the-air signal or I would try to figure out how to post a screen cap. We switched over to the regular digital signal, which we were capturing on the DVR, but his knee was cut off of the screen in that picture. Therefore, anyone watching the regular format would never have seen it.

The ball was out, OU recovered. Missed on the field (I certainly can't blame the refs, had to be super slo-mo to catch it), and I have no idea whether the review official has widescreen etc. I'm not mad about it like I was Oregon. In this case, it just seems like an easily missed call (although again, it would have ended the game with OU the winner). It also seems like a poetic bookend to this season. In this case it just reinforces my opinion that replay doesn't do what it was envisioned to do, and is a failed experiment.

Hats off to BSU, though. They played an inspired game.

I watched the game in HD too and I've been looking all day for someone else who noticed this. FOX only played the angle once that showed his knee not touching the ground before the fumble, then it showed the angle that makes it look like his knee did touch the ground. I yelled at the TV when they kept showing that angle saying it looked like the knee touched the ground because of the camera position and the crown on the field...but the TV wouldn't listen to me! :)

[BigRedJed]

Probably the only way this will ever see the light of day is if somebody recorded the over-the-air HD signal on a DVD recorder, or if TiVo can catch the digital over-the-air-signal (can it?) and somebody caught it that way. Precious few people have an adequate video record of what I am talking about, no matter what.

Still doesn't matter. Look, missed calls happen the whole game long, in both directions, in every game. I'm a big believer in the whole "a great team makes its own luck" idea. Frankly, OU hasn't manufactured much luck for itself this year. BSU obviously has. OU shouldn't have let them drive like that. End of story.

But it's still frustrating to see stuff like that, especially at a crucial, game-changing time like that, and especially when instant replay is masquerading as a method of insuring that it doesn't happen. It gives perceived legitimacy to missed calls.

[jagwelborn]

I'm 100% with you on this BigRedJed. The sad thing to me is that it was reviewed and I don't see how they missed that if they took a look at the angle we saw. Oh well...

[Killerbees]

I just watched it on channel 9. His knee did not touch the ground. No way no how. Buttttt whatever, I'm still not mad, Its a tough call that could have went either way. Still the review officials should have caught that.

[BigRedJed]

I'm 100% with you on this BigRedJed. The sad thing to me is that it was reviewed and I don't see how they missed that if they took a look at the angle we saw. Oh well...
I think that's the point. They probably did NOT look at it at the angle we saw, or didn't have the benefit of widescreen, or something. I'm not mad about it like most of us were over the Oregon debacle, more of a fatalistic "oh, well, par for the course."

[BigRedJed]

I just watched it on channel 9. His knee did not touch the ground. No way no how. Buttttt whatever, I'm still not mad, Its a tough call that could have went either way. Still the review officials should have caught that.
Oh, Channel 9's showing it? Good. I still don't think there will be much of an outcry, because precious few people saw it as it happened, and the angle where the crown of the field obscures the knee made it too easy to accept "oh, well I guess his knee WAS down."

Just the way the ball bounces. Happens in most every game. That said, it has happened in some absolutely critical times for OU over the past two years, and IR hasn't been their friend.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Leatherneck, some people think you are serious.
:texan:My guess is that our Marine might have changed his mind after reading all the posts in this thread. We are Darth Vader, and have to be smote.

[OUfan7]

You could see it on regular TV. Instant replay/review is a good thing if they would just call what they see. I do not like losing but if we lose I would prefer it to not involve the refs. I'm on the edge of my seat every time they go to the booth because I don't know if they are going to call it the way it actually happened. As for the announcers: D minus at best. They were way to caught up in the "underdog" drama.
Hats off to Ian Johnson for admitting that he fumbled!!!

[bluedogok]

I have it in HD on my DirecTV-DVR, which is in the original 720p Fox broadcast, my DVR will do OTA-HD now. The the one angle they showed early didn't look like his knee was down, the other two were bad angles and it looked like his knee was down. Ironic how all the the subsequent replays were the two bad angle ones.

The PI on the 2 point conversion was because he had hooked the receiver around the waist, there was an end zone shot which showed this clearly.

Overall, it was a much better called game (more even) than any of the Pac 10/Big 12 crew games were. There are blown calls in every game, at least this wasn't directly affected like some others this season.

[Eielson]

I saw the game and I could see that his knee wasn't down and we don't have HD. And on that spot he was a yard behind the line but they gave him the ball one yard past the line.

[SoonerTerry]

Well, concerning the refs, there is this little jewel. :mad: Looks like Zabranski was in motion on the 4th and 2 in OT, started skipping forward about a yard and didn't get set before the snap. I believe that should be an illegal shift/motion penalty on a pretty significant play. They called a similar penalty on the TE on our 2pt conversion for illegal shift where the 2nd TE was in motion but did get set just before the snap of the ball.

Can someone clarify our illegal motion penalty? Does that TE have to be in a set position for a period of time before the snap or just in position and not moving?


Link : look at the 37 sec mark (http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=23573)

Watch what happens to the defensive end at the 114 mark

[SoonerTerry]

But I stillk think the game was called well, and didn't affect the outcome.

[SoonerMom2]

I'm 100% with you on this BigRedJed. The sad thing to me is that it was reviewed and I don't see how they missed that if they took a look at the angle we saw. Oh well...

Big 10 replay will very seldom overturn a call on the field especially when this particular group was 'supposed' to be their best. I think they started replay in the Big 10 so they could say the plays on the field were called correctly as a lot of people questioned the Big 10 refs and their missed calls. Still cannot believe that they missed 12 men on the field when one ran off. That has to be the easiest call to make.

[BigRedJed]

Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRcVOMdOuc) a link to what I was talking about. Unfortunately the YouTube video is horrible. If the definition was better you could clearly see what I'm talking about. It happens at the :44 second mark. The second replay (:50+) is shot from a camera that the cameraman must have been holding at his waist or below. It allows for the crown of the field to eclipse the knee, making it appear definitively that the knee touched. If you had a still photo or a hi-def version of the first replay, at the :44 second mark it would be quite evident that his knee never got closer than 2" or so from the turf before the ball popped out.

Enlarge the video when you look at it. Helps a bit, but not much.

Again, at the end of the day this kind of stuff happens in every game. Personally, I'm not upset that the official missed it. It's just frustrating to see it happen again specifically at a time when it without question would have sealed the win.

[cvsooner]

Johnson said in media session, somewhere, that he didn't think he was down and he had fumbled. Combine that with the video and it's pretty conclusive.

But if this season has any lessons, it's that even with technology, things get missed or misinterpreted. I'm still trying to figure out the call in the second half when Zabransky to avoid the sack throws the ball to a lineman. They ruled illegal touch, and not intentional grounding. Add that to the 12 men in the huddle...

I was also surprised at how much holding the officials allowed both sides to get away with.

Also, NCAA needs to review pass interference penalty amount. Boise State defenders kept committing interference instead of allowng the catch...presumably because the penalty is better than the gain, or a score. That's bush league, in my opinion.

[Jewstin]

If Adrian Peteron's fumble in the Texas game is actually a fumble (carrying arm hitting the ground while the rest of the body is not down), then Ian Johnson definitely fumbled. As the previous poster remarked, the distance shot just shows that the football field is crowned ... the other angles show his knee never actually touched. Credit to his ability to keep the play alive, I guess?

I just don't know if that falls under the "ground causing the fumble" clause. They sure didn't have any qualms with calling it against us.

[Harry Beanbag]

Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRcVOMdOuc) a link to what I was talking about. Unfortunately the YouTube video is horrible. If the definition was better you could clearly see what I'm talking about. It happens at the :44 second mark. The second replay (:50+) is shot from a camera that the cameraman must have been holding at his waist or below. It allows for the crown of the field to eclipse the knee, making it appear definitively that the knee touched. If you had a still photo or a hi-def version of the first replay, at the :44 second mark it would be quite evident that his knee never got closer than 2" or so from the turf before the ball popped out.

Enlarge the video when you look at it. Helps a bit, but not much.

Again, at the end of the day this kind of stuff happens in every game. Personally, I'm not upset that the official missed it. It's just frustrating to see it happen again specifically at a time when it without question would have sealed the win.


They showed that angle like 5 times in the stadium which shows clearly that his knee never touched the ground. Those were groans and gasps from Sooners you hear in the background of the telecast.

[BermudaSooner]

I just don't know if that falls under the "ground causing the fumble" clause. They sure didn't have any qualms with calling it against us.

There is no such rule as the ground can't cause a fumble in college. The player is down when anything other than his hand or foot touches the ground. See Rule 4 Article 3 (b)

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2006/2006_football_rules.pdf

[Texas Golfer]

Although the calls weren't blatent, there were several that seemed to go BSU's way.

The spot of the ball when Johnson bobbled the pass. When he finally gained possession of the ball, he was down two yards from where they spotted it. They spotted the ball from when he first touched it, not when he caught it.

Several times, the broke the huddle with 12 men but called them on it only once.

Zabransky was definitely moving toward the LOS prior to the snap of the ball with no call on the OT TD.

There was big time holding on their 2-pt conversion with no call.

I'm sure there were others that I just don't remember just now, too.

This was nothing like the Oregon debacle because none of the above cost us the game. They just gave them additional chances for success.

[Jock Ewing]

On Johnson's fumble, the whistle blew. The review was for the spot, not possession. Listen to the replay with audio, it's very clear. Because the whistle blew, possession reverts to the last team that had possession (BSU). Very similar to the whistle blowing early in the UAB game that gave OU possession in a potential game-changing call.

[msteudem]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the hold on Larry Birdine in the last play of the game (Statue of Liberty play). His jersey is pulled back and he is thrown to the ground. We got away with a hold or two ourselves but they didn't decide the outcome of the game. It's pretty bad when officiating sucks so bad throughout the season that we actually compliment the officiating in this game.

[SoonerGM]

Probably the only way this will ever see the light of day is if somebody recorded the over-the-air HD signal on a DVD recorder, or if TiVo can catch the digital over-the-air-signal (can it?) and somebody caught it that way. Precious few people have an adequate video record of what I am talking about, no matter what.

Still doesn't matter. Look, missed calls happen the whole game long, in both directions, in every game. I'm a big believer in the whole "a great team makes its own luck" idea. Frankly, OU hasn't manufactured much luck for itself this year. BSU obviously has. OU shouldn't have let them drive like that. End of story.

But it's still frustrating to see stuff like that, especially at a crucial, game-changing time like that, and especially when instant replay is masquerading as a method of insuring that it doesn't happen. It gives perceived legitimacy to missed calls.

i mean... i agree with what you are saying, i really do. but... when a guy causes a fumble and the team recovers the ball, isn't that how you create your own luck? :confused:

its not like you can have the perfect defense on every down and never allow 1st downs. so, its those kind of plays create your luck for you. when its negated by a bad call... i mean you can only do so much.

[SoonerGM]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the hold on Larry Birdine in the last play of the game (Statue of Liberty play). His jersey is pulled back and he is thrown to the ground. We got away with a hold or two ourselves but they didn't decide the outcome of the game. It's pretty bad when officiating sucks so bad throughout the season that we actually compliment the officiating in this game.

there was also a pretty big hold on a big pass play for a first down during thier last drive of the 4th quarter. our guy got mugged from behind down field. of course it happend after the reciever made the catch and i dont think he could have made the tackle anyway. but, its one of those things, if it was called how it should have been, it backs them up. instead they get rewarded with a first down, which results in giving them an opportunity to tie the game.

you know, in most cases the bad calls/no calls are not really bad. if we had executed properly for the majority of the game, we win. but there is deffinatly one call that did impact the outcome of the game, and that is the holding on the 2 pt conversion.

[IronSooner]

I won't gripe about holding calls or the lack thereof...they happen on every down, sometimes the refs see them, sometimes they don't.

I couldn't wait to get back to hear what the TV audience thought of the fumble. Everyone in our section was dead sure it was a fumble and that the UO tribulation would be balanced out. I even thought since they were Big Ten refs, we'd have a chance. No such luck. I wasn't sure about the arm hitting, if that meant he was down or not. But I've come to believe that in any case, if the refs aren't sure, they'll rule to keep the game going rather than end it. If they'd ruled that a fumble, game over. While they may have been wrong, each team still had chances to win it this way. Same at UO. If our defense didn't give up huge plays with little to no time remaining, we'd have more hardware this year. We got screwed once, probably twice, but our D needs to improve big-time, bottom line.