View Full Version : 4th & 18, 4 turnovers
The_Red_Patriot
1/2/2007, 11:45 AM
They deserved to win guys. We fought hard but when you turn the ball over that much and cant stop them on 4th & 18, im sorry.
I give it up to Paul Thompson, played terrible yet put it behind him and came back in the 4th qtr.
Hell of a year Sooners.
And if anybody is calling for ANY coaches job, your an idiot.
southern sooner
1/2/2007, 11:51 AM
Stoops is great.... stick with them in the bad and the good times..... the 4th and 18 will be the play that will stick with me till 2007 kickoff....
SoonerStormchaser
1/2/2007, 11:52 AM
...that and Eugene...
Theskipster
1/2/2007, 11:57 AM
They deserved to win guys. We fought hard but when you turn the ball over that much and cant stop them on 4th & 18, im sorry.
They deserved the win because of the coaching and execution mistakes in first half were too costly, but that Hook and Ladder at full speed on 4th and 18 was ran to absolute perfection and would have worked on any team out there.
In fact in an Espn article, BSU is talking about that play. It was a once in a lifetime play. Don't get down on the Sooners for not defending that one.
Boise practices the play every week in its final full practice before games.
"The guys love it," Petersen said. "We probably run it 10 times because they love it."
So it's a fun play to practice. Whether it's an effective play is another matter entirely.
"Can I say something?" interjected linebacker Korey Hall in the postgame press conference. "It doesn't work in practice usually."
Harsin confirmed this.
"It never works," he said. "Ever."
Pause. Another smile.
"Then we do it and it works."
Indy Sooner
1/2/2007, 01:13 PM
but that Hook and Ladder at full speed on 4th and 18 was ran to absolute perfection and would have worked on any team out there.
What disturbed me is it didn't appear as if this type of play had even been considered by the OU defensive coaching braintrust. The "hook and ladder" is a staple in most teams' 4th down, last gasp play gadgetry.
The modified statue of liberty play was a thing of genius and no one could have expected it...especially given the fact BSU ran a different play out of the same formation earlier in the season and I believe that was the only datapoint the OU coaching staff had with respect to tendencies if faced with that look.
Yep...turnovers hurt... but we were outcoached, folks. Watch the game again if you don't believe that and try to view it objectively.
St. Louis Sooner
1/2/2007, 01:36 PM
I like our coaches, and I like our prospects for the future.
Coaches have flaws, and every now and then the flaws are exposed by the opposing team ... nuff said.
Mistakes usually follow a team that is young ... turnovers have been our trademark all season. Our leadership seemed lacking all season too.
BTW: Did anyone see the Penn St. / Tennessee game? I was amazed at all the solo, helmet-on-the-numbers, wrap-up tackling going on by the guys in blue. I miss Rocky and TRRW.
tommieharris91
1/2/2007, 01:38 PM
Personally I think many teams will watch film of that play as a guide for how to run a desperation play like that one. I think that hook and ladder play wa run excellently, and any breakdown on that play results in a non-conversion.
Boise practices the play every week in its final full practice before games.
"The guys love it," Petersen said. "We probably run it 10 times because they love it."
So it's a fun play to practice. Whether it's an effective play is another matter entirely.
"Can I say something?" interjected linebacker Korey Hall in the postgame press conference. "It doesn't work in practice usually."
Harsin confirmed this.
"It never works," he said. "Ever."
Pause. Another smile.
"Then we do it and it works."
Oh well that makes me feel great. They can't run it on Boise State's scout D but they can run it on us on 4th and 18 when their season is on the ropes. Freakin' unbelievable.
am i wrong in thinking we ran a hook and lateral play when Leach was OC? i don't mean it THAT way, it's just that people act like they have never seen that before
we need to get better at the end of the half and at the end of games :(
The modified statue of liberty play was a thing of genius and no one could have expected it...especially given the fact BSU ran a different play out of the same formation earlier in the season and I believe that was the only datapoint the OU coaching staff had with respect to tendencies if faced with that look.
They ran it this year already, in the exact same formation against Idaho. Stoops & co. had the film on it, so you know they saw it.
Yep...turnovers hurt... but we were outcoached, folks. Watch the game again if you don't believe that and try to view it objectively.
Now that I agree with.
Widescreen
1/2/2007, 03:03 PM
am i wrong in thinking we ran a hook and lateral play when Leach was OC? i don't mean it THAT way, it's just that people act like they have never seen that before
Yes, we only picked up 19 yards and I remember Stoops (or maybe Leach) complaining that it was designed to go for a lot more.
soonermeteor
1/2/2007, 03:15 PM
Three reasons we lost:
1) Out coached. Their coach pulled out plays that worked on a prevent defense. They were willing to take risks to win and they did.
2) Turnovers. You can't turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win, especially if two of them were pick 6s.
3) Malcom Kelly. Losing him quickly really hurt. He was a big reason why Thompson worked at quarterback. He was able to catch balls and get open where most other receivers could not. If he was in cut Paul Thompson's interceptions by at least 1. He was going for Malcom kelly in some of those plays and the kid wasn't out there.
Jello Biafra
1/2/2007, 03:20 PM
Three reasons we lost:
1) Out coached. Their coach pulled out plays that worked on a prevent defense. They were willing to take risks to win and they did.
2) Turnovers. You can't turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win, especially if two of them were pick 6s.
3) Malcom Kelly. Losing him quickly really hurt. He was a big reason why Thompson worked at quarterback. He was able to catch balls and get open where most other receivers could not. If he was in cut Paul Thompson's interceptions by at least 1. He was going for Malcom kelly in some of those plays and the kid wasn't out there.
true on all three counts....
on a side note, chaney, needs to be starting at the other wr positions. he played well imo.
Indy Sooner
1/2/2007, 03:32 PM
They ran it this year already, in the exact same formation against Idaho. Stoops & co. had the film on it, so you know they saw it.
Ouch, then.
Regarding my comment, the announcing crew led me to believe they actually threw the ball to the right earlier in the season when they came out in that set (the lone time they showed that formation). It was late in the Eastern Time Zone, however, when I heard the announcers prating about that point. :)
SoonerLB
1/2/2007, 03:33 PM
Three reasons we lost:
1) Out coached. Their coach pulled out plays that worked on a prevent defense. They were willing to take risks to win and they did.
2) Turnovers. You can't turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win, especially if two of them were pick 6s.
3) Malcom Kelly. Losing him quickly really hurt. He was a big reason why Thompson worked at quarterback. He was able to catch balls and get open where most other receivers could not. If he was in cut Paul Thompson's interceptions by at least 1. He was going for Malcom kelly in some of those plays and the kid wasn't out there.
4) Paul Thompson. 2 gift TD's given up, 2 probable TD passes missed (one under thrown, one over thrown), that overshadowed some good plays. He didn't single-handedly lose the game, but his mistakes were a contributing factor.
SouthCarolinaSooner
1/2/2007, 03:36 PM
They deserved to win guys. We fought hard but when you turn the ball over that much and cant stop them on 4th & 18, im sorry.
I give it up to Paul Thompson, played terrible yet put it behind him and came back in the 4th qtr.
Hell of a year Sooners.
And if anybody is calling for ANY coaches job, your an idiot.
Exaclty. This game wil be motivation for next season and coming BCS and national title games to come. I don't see us overlooking opponets again.
Jello Biafra
1/2/2007, 03:39 PM
Exaclty. This game wil be motivation for next season and coming BCS and national title games to come. I don't see us overlooking opponets again.
yep. you would think so wouldn't you????
but, then again, you would think that "overlooking" our last two BCS opponents would have us looking a lil sharper.......
SoonerFaninAZ
1/2/2007, 03:41 PM
What disturbed me is it didn't appear as if this type of play had even been considered by the OU defensive coaching braintrust. The "hook and ladder" is a staple in most teams' 4th down, last gasp play gadgetry.
I think the Sooners may have been prepared for A hook and ladder, simply not THAT hook and ladder.
My experience with that play is that the ball usually is thrown in a much shorter route than what Boise St used last night. The initial pass was nearly, if not, a first down already. I don't know what film showed them doing earlier this season, but I was very surprised to see the hook and ladder used in the fashion Boise St used it last night.
Jello Biafra
1/2/2007, 03:45 PM
I think the Sooners may have been prepared for A hook and ladder, simply not THAT hook and ladder.
My experience with that play is that the ball usually is thrown in a much shorter route than what Boise St used last night. The initial pass was nearly, if not, a first down already. I don't know what film showed them doing earlier this season, but I was very surprised to see the hook and ladder used in the fashion Boise St used it last night.
i just don't know what could have been done about the play other than playing a tighter defense than we ran. with the team speed we have on defense, you would think i you see a receiver running balls to the wall 8 yards behind the play (as opposed to running downfield and attempting a block) our linebackers or a dlineman running behind the play would have hit him. eh whatever. hind sight is 20/20.
SouthCarolinaSooner
1/2/2007, 03:47 PM
yep. you would think so wouldn't you????
but, then again, you would think that "overlooking" our last two BCS opponents would have us looking a lil sharper.......
Yes but admitedly Southern Cal was a better team than we were in 2004 simple as that. As for LSU well I cant explain that. Hell Jason White's hand was screwed up so there.
westcoast_sooner
1/2/2007, 05:26 PM
They had several low-percentage plays all go off flawlessly. The odds that they would all work are astronomical. You just don't win too many games, especially against good opponents, when you turn the ball over 4 times. Amazingly, we put ourselves in position to win, and just couldn't hang on. If we don't turn the ball over, the game wouldn't have been close.
I think they stole some of our Sooner Magic, and I want it back.
RedGiant
1/2/2007, 05:33 PM
As soon as the receiver started acting birdy they should've known something was up. Instead they appeared clueless. Cluelessness seems to be a running theme at different times with this defense for a very long period now. You can draw your own conclusions.
birddog
1/2/2007, 05:46 PM
how come it's hook and ladder and not hook and lateral?
man, i'm still trying to digest what i saw last night.
Texas Golfer
1/2/2007, 06:10 PM
Stoops is great.... stick with them in the bad and the good times..... the 4th and 18 will be the play that will stick with me till 2007 kickoff....
I agree. Even the botched Oregon call won't haunt me as much. In Oregon, there wasn't anything we could do to prevent that result. But with 4th and 18 for the game and let them convert...it's all on us.
getrdone
1/2/2007, 06:13 PM
people used to fear us, now they don't, stoops either needs to right the ship or get the hell out of norman. he's good, but we don't want good, we want great.
we need that intimidating swagger back, and not have a predictable play book, hell what did it take boise to scout our tendancies, 10-15 minutes? load the box, play zone vs the pass.
we should not have to live with pt at qb, we should never, and i mean never put all our eggs in one basket of a qb-that is not failed execution that is stupidity.
not saying we should have two complete studs at qb, but having to give it to thompson-give it mind you-he didn't earn it-
this whole year was just an average team.
stoops is good, but do we want good? i don't. fix it or leave.
StormySooner-IN
1/2/2007, 06:47 PM
Ouch, then.
Regarding my comment, the announcing crew led me to believe they actually threw the ball to the right earlier in the season when they came out in that set (the lone time they showed that formation). It was late in the Eastern Time Zone, however, when I heard the announcers prating about that point. :)Hey Indy.....this reminds me of the Colts/Steelers in the playoffs last year.
That was fun, and heartbreaking.
TOO MANY HEART BREAKINGS!:(:mad:
:les:I blame Fexas!
Boise practices the play every week in its final full practice before games.
"The guys love it," Petersen said. "We probably run it 10 times because they love it."
So it's a fun play to practice. Whether it's an effective play is another matter entirely.
"Can I say something?" interjected linebacker Korey Hall in the postgame press conference. "It doesn't work in practice usually."
Harsin confirmed this.
"It never works," he said. "Ever."
Pause. Another smile.
"Then we do it and it works."
Oh well that makes me feel great. They can't run it on Boise State's scout D but they can run it on us on 4th and 18 when their season is on the ropes. Freakin' unbelievable.
They were pretty much to the last bullet in the gun. It was their last play of the season, so of course they're going to try it - they had nothing to lose, and think about it - their defense sees their trick plays and chit all the time - of course their D is going to be able to react. Look at what they stated - They run it once a week. Their defense sees it once a week. Do you think they're going to get fooled on it? I heard an interview with Zabransky this morning, and he stated that they have to tell the defense they're going to run it, and to "act dumb". (don't take offense-it wasn't said that way by him - but you get the point.)
It was a great play - run to perfection. Hats of to them. They beat us.
tulsaoilerfan
1/2/2007, 07:47 PM
What about the halfback pass that came on 4th and 2 for a TD? The Tight End ran right by the LB(don't want to put his name in here cause I'm not bashing the kid); shouldn't we react better than that to a receiver coming out to catch a pass? Covering receivers has been our achilles heel in damn near every game we've lost over the last 6 seasons; at some point you have to wonder if it is coaching
wishbonesooner
1/2/2007, 09:47 PM
Is it time for Bob to get involved on a day to day basis with the defense? He made his reputation by being a great coordinator. I won't blame BV, but his personality shows in our defense, manic, all over the place. Bob might bring a calming influence to our secondary.
bluedogok
1/2/2007, 10:00 PM
What about the halfback pass that came on 4th and 2 for a TD? The Tight End ran right by the LB(don't want to put his name in here cause I'm not bashing the kid); shouldn't we react better than that to a receiver coming out to catch a pass? Covering receivers has been our achilles heel in damn near every game we've lost over the last 6 seasons; at some point you have to wonder if it is coaching
I saw that play coming, I watched a few of the BSU games during the season and they seemed to have run that play a few times. The reason why trick plays work is they are designed to deceive a fast defense, get all of the flow to one side with all that speed then hit going away. Players actually staying with their responsibility will defeat those, but players with speed think they can always cover errors with their speed. They were well executed desperation plays designed to use a teams asset against them.
tulsaoilerfan
1/2/2007, 11:40 PM
I saw that play coming, I watched a few of the BSU games during the season and they seemed to have run that play a few times. The reason why trick plays work is they are designed to deceive a fast defense, get all of the flow to one side with all that speed then hit going away. Players actually staying with their responsibility will defeat those, but players with speed think they can always cover errors with their speed. They were well executed desperation plays designed to use a teams asset against them.
Yeah, you are correct, but just about everyone tries to deceive us somehow with mis-direction and cut backs, and the occasional trick play; what i'm wondering is why can't we coach the kids to stay at home and play their responsibility FIRST; seems like in most of our losses the defense is out of position most of the game
Yeah, you are correct, but just about everyone tries to deceive us somehow with mis-direction and cut backs, and the occasional trick play; what i'm wondering is why can't we coach the kids to stay at home and play their responsibility FIRST; seems like in most of our losses the defense is out of position at the most critical moments of the game
Fixed
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.