So, should we rethink our Coordinator hiring philosophies?

[OUAndy1807]

because promoting from within seems to breed some crappy results.

[XingTheRubicon]

5 out of the last 7 years in the BCS

[OUAndy1807]

3 out of those 5 we've lost. 2 of them embarassing and all 3 due to coaching (think about the momentum we had running the ball in the 4th against LSU before we ran 4 passing plays inside the 10)

you don't think we got outcoached by a 1st year coach tonight?

[GottaHavePride]

It's odd - while I think 42 points should be enough to beat anyone, I also think our turnovers resulted more from the coaches hanging PT out to dry. I mean, running the backs up the middle to no effect then abandoning the running game (despite having great success running to the outside every time we try it...) makes it tough for PT to pass effectively. Also, the offense was humming right along once PT stopped looking to the sideline for the call and ran his 2-minute drill.

[TopDawg]

We lost our starting QB a month before the season.
We lost our starting RB midway through the season.
We had a game stolen from us in Oregon.

And we still made it to a BCS bowl game.

In that bowl game, we lost our "new" playmaker in the 1st quarter and lost on a trick play 2-point conversion in overtime.

And we have a problem with our coaches?

[GottaHavePride]

Not a problem from me as just - questions. Like, when the announcers even notice that up the middle is futile, but the outside is wide open, don't you think the coaches would notice that and at least try it out to see if it's really open?

[batonrougesooner]

The thing that ****es me off is that we never allowed ourselves to establish any sort of rhythm until late in the game.

Gave up the touchdown early, then the fumble and resultant touchdown. After that, the team is playing on their heels on both sides of the ball until the end.

Bad breaks. Boise had bloodlust in their eyes to start. OU seemed to think it was just another football game.

While I hate the loss, I really do respect the way the team came back.

I personally thought it was over when Walker picked that pass and scored. (as did many on this board I would assume).

[TopDawg]

Off the top of my head I know that once on the goalline we ran Peterson on the outside and lost 5 yards. Boise State was stuffing our run inside AND out.

[iknowyoudidnt]

That's a lot of points, but the score of this game doesn't tell the whole story about the offensive play calling. If anything, I think the score is just a teaser of what could have been with some more creativity in the offensive play calling.

Now, the defense... Man, where's Mike? If you want to blame talent, or losing players, I can almost buy that argument on offense, but there's no excuse for our defense to play like that with the talent we've got. That's what really breaks my heart, because even with our lackluster offensive performance, that was WAY more points than we needed to win this game, even with the stupid turnovers.

[bcgvh]

I think we have a difficult time getting our players as pumped up to play as our opponents, I mean, since Mike Stoops left we've come out flat quite often. That's where my concern lies. Maybe we can get Switzer in the locker room to say a few words before each game. Oh well, there will be another year, but we're really turning into what Michigan has become the last several years. I hope I'm wrong, but man, losses like this just suck.

[GottaHavePride]

True. But then on the flip-side we run AD outside and get a 25-yard TD run in one play. I'd say percentage-wise the outside was MUCH more efficient than the inside.

[BASSooner]

i have a solution, offer Mike Stoops and Fatman Mangino each 800gs to come back:D

[XingTheRubicon]

3 out of those 5 we've lost. 2 of them embarassing and all 3 due to coaching (think about the momentum we had running the ball in the 4th against LSU before we ran 4 passing plays inside the 10)

you don't think we got outcoached by a 1st year coach tonight?


I understand your point, but OU has still won more games this decade than any other program. It's just hard for me to get "crappy results" out of that.


Florida State was bitching after they lost to us in the '01 OB, and now they are playing in the Cascade clean dishes bowl....and back then that was their 3rd straight NC game, btw.


Some years a staff can seem brilliant and infallable and then later look clueless. I'll take this staff over the long haul.

[iknowyoudidnt]

I've felt like... well, the players have a sense of entitlement that didn't exist when Mike was around. It's understandable why a gifted athlete would think that way, but I also believe that proper coaching can keep that greatly in check. I haven't seen many inspired performances in the last few years, with a few notable exceptions. Paul Thompson's "The Drive" in the Nebraska game being one that comes to mind.

[toast]

We lost our starting QB a month before the season.
We lost our starting RB midway through the season.
We had a game stolen from us in Oregon.

And we still made it to a BCS bowl game.

In that bowl game, we lost our "new" playmaker in the 1st quarter and lost on a trick play 2-point conversion in overtime.

And we have a problem with our coaches?


dangit, I hate it when someone makes a reasonable post after a loss. boise made more plays than OU did tonight.

[kevpks]

The only philosophy we need to change is our bowl preparation philosophy. Something is not clicking. The Sooners have looked great in two bowls under Stoops (2000 Orange, 2002 Rose). They have looked okay in two (2001 Cotton, 2005 Holiday). They have looked bad in two (1999 Independence,2003 Sugar), and have gotten flat out embarassed in two (2004 Orange, 2006 Fiesta).

Bob needs a stellar season next year capped off by a BCS win to recapture the "Big Game Bob" label.

[TopDawg]

True. But then on the flip-side we run AD outside and get a 25-yard TD run in one play. I'd say percentage-wise the outside was MUCH more efficient than the inside.

Yeah, but we also busted some good runs between the tackles. It's 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

I think the main problem is that we were behind the whole game and couldn't stick with the running game. Although we've run the ball well this year, it's mostly because we've been able to pound teams and keep at them and wear them down. We didn't have that luxury because they were stopping us for most of the game and we fell behind by too much.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Not a problem from me as just - questions. Like, when the announcers even notice that up the middle is futile, but the outside is wide open, don't you think the coaches would notice that and at least try it out to see if it's really open?

I'm just going to say one thing and I hope I don't get baned...but....

I agree. I love the game but I know very little about the mechanics and play-calling, but even *I* was yelling "Don't run it up the middle AGAIN". Crap, it wasn't working, what did we have to lose to try something else?

That is all. If I'm baned, see y'all later.

[SoonerMom2]

Our Coordinators are fine -- our players didn't execute in some instances. Throwing that many interceptions along with a fumble is not the fault of the coaches.

BTW, Jason White costs us the LSU game when he wouldn't come out of the game and couldn't avoid the pass rush. In fact, Jason White coming back for a 6th season costs us IMHO because he couldn't stand up for the entire season and by the time we got to the Championship game, he was toast. Coming back for his ego costs us and is still costing us IMHO. Think how good Thompson would have been if he had been given a chance before Long decided Bomar was the only choice last season and pulled Thompson in the first game.

Look at all we went through this year and we still ended up Big 12 Champs! This team overachieved because of coaching. Because things fell apart in the 1st half was not the fault of the coaches. They didn't fumble or throw interceptions. Think you are all underestimating how much not having Malcolm Kelly hurt this team. He has been there all year at crunch time and not having him tonight I think put Thompson out of sync!

[bcgvh]

I understand your point, but OU has still won more games this decade than any other program. It's just hard for me to get "crappy results" out of that.


What about USC? ;)

[Egeo]

we're not going to find any better coaches willing to come here mainly because there arent very many better coaching staffs

guys, we cant win every game
its the law of defeat

[GottaHavePride]

True. I guess I just felt like we gave up on the run too quickly after getting behind 14-0.

[XingTheRubicon]

What about USC?



What about them.


They sucked in 2000 and 2001.


Sucked.


OU is the winningest program of the decade. It's Science.

[GottaHavePride]

I'm just going to say one thing and I hope I don't get baned...but....

I agree. I love the game but I know very little about the mechanics and play-calling, but even *I* was yelling "Don't run it up the middle AGAIN". Crap, it wasn't working, what did we have to lose to try something else?

That is all. If I'm baned, see y'all later.
What, I'm gonna ban you for agreeing with me? ;)

[TopDawg]

What baffled me was how it seemed like they were able to stuff our run, but we also appeared to have no passing lanes. We've made a living this year off of taking what the defense will give us, but early in the game they weren't giving us ANYTHING. How many guys did they have out there?

[mikeb]

Bottom line is AD would have wore the potatoes out tonight. I guarantee it....

[Egeo]

Our Coordinators are fine -- our players didn't execute in some instances. Throwing that many interceptions along with a fumble is not the fault of the coaches.

BTW, Jason White costs us the LSU game when he wouldn't come out of the game and couldn't avoid the pass rush. In fact, Jason White coming back for a 6th season costs us IMHO because he couldn't stand up for the entire season and by the time we got to the Championship game, he was toast. Coming back for his ego costs us and is still costing us IMHO. Think how good Thompson would have been if he had been given a chance before Long decided Bomar was the only choice last season and pulled Thompson in the first game.

Look at all we went through this year and we still ended up Big 12 Champs! This team overachieved because of coaching. Because things fell apart in the 1st half was not the fault of the coaches. They didn't fumble or throw interceptions. Think you are all underestimating how much not having Malcolm Kelly hurt this team. He has been there all year at crunch time and not having him tonight I think put Thompson out of sync!
i like you're first two paragraphs, but the middle one is terribly wrong

we would have likely lost alot more games without jason white - for evidence, check our record before and after
also check our offensive stats, they dropped considerably i imagine (also because of his surrounding cast - he was way better than any qb we've had since though)
and i dont think he came back for his ego - he announced he was coming back before the bowl game

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

What, I'm gonna ban you for agreeing with me? ;)

Bri scared me.

[batonrougesooner]

Honestly guys, I really don't have an answer.

I hate how we've become an average team when it comes to the "big game".

That first half looked like OU hadn't practiced for the last four weeks. It was almost as if they were surpirsed Boise was out to actually win the game.

All of us here obviously follow OU football. Tell me I'm lying if I say I'm seeing a clear pattern here of laying an egg in the big games over the last several years.

Where do you start? Is it Nebraska in 2002? ATM? Is it KSU (KC) in 2003? LSU? USC? Oregon, Texas this year. (I remember Gordon Reese).

I know OU won a few between there such as Texas in 2003, some would say Big 12 Champ. this year but I think my point remains valid.

Is it a case of big game jidders from the coaches and ultimately players or is it a case of "you can't win them all"?

I don't know the answer.

We have good coaches and good players, but I was not impressed with the performance tonight.

[LittleWingSooner]

I don't know if we need to hire a new staff.

But I think we need to change offensive philosophies. We need to be more aggressive. Call plays much like we did that last drive in regulation. Except call those plays to start the game. If you come out with that type of drive it opens up so much. And if you continue to play like that till you step on their neck then you go to the run game. In big games we come out with a try and just out physical teams. And we have a lot of talent and we probably have the ability to do so. But it's not easy to do against really good teams. Our coaching staff underestimated Boise's run D. Boise is a really good team. And I expected a tough game. But I don't like our coaching in this one.

[FlatheadSooner]

What about USC? ;)


This was far from the "game of which we do not speak". I still get hot flashes from thinking of that.

:rolleyes:

[1stTimeCaller]

Bri scared me.

ahhh, he's a big ole teddy bear. I think we're fine until we start bashing players and being wayyyyy out there and persistent with posts.

[TUSooner]

Honestly guys, I really don't have an answer.

I hate how we've become an average team when it comes to the "big game".

That first half looked like OU hadn't practiced for the last four weeks. It was almost as if they were surpirsed Boise was out to actually win the game.

All of us here obviously follow OU football. Tell me I'm lying if I say I'm seeing a clear pattern here of laying an egg in the big games over the last several years.

Where do you start? Is it Nebraska in 2002? ATM? Is it KSU (KC) in 2003? LSU? USC? Oregon, Texas this year. (I remember Gordon Reese).

I know OU won a few between there such as Texas in 2003, some would say Big 12 Champ. this year but I think my point remains valid.

Is it a case of big game jidders from the coaches and ultimately players or is it a case of "you can't win them all"?

I don't know the answer.

We have good coaches and good players, but I was not impressed with the performance tonight.
Good questions, but I have no answers (as always) :) I only know that we seem to be noteworthy lately for being the Washington Generals to everyone else's Harlem Globetrotters.

[TopDawg]

Is it a case of big game jidders from the coaches and ultimately players or is it a case of "you can't win them all"?

I don't know the answer.

We have good coaches and good players, but I was not impressed with the performance tonight.

I don't know the answer either. But my take on it is this. Perhaps this Sooner squad just played over their heads for most of the season this year. I mean, what they accomplished this year with the circumstances they faced was remarkable.

Here's how I chalk them up:
USC = "sh*t happens"
LSU = "you can't win them all"
Boise State = "we played heads-up against a quality opponent without our go-to guy on offense (Kelly)"

[iknowyoudidnt]

The threat of the Mighty Ban Hammer looms, and I too fear it. But...

Have we become Texas? Isn't it clear by now that you can't win games against well-coached teams with sheer talent? Look at all those wins we had against Texas when they were clearly more talented, but lacked creativity from the coaching staff. Now that we're getting the talent, it seems as if complacency has set in somewhere. We can all see it, the signs have been there for three or four seasons now. I don't know where to point the finger, but I think it's very apparent there's a problem somewhere, and it's bigger than losing a key player.

[SoonerTerry]

All I have to say about the assistant situation is, I am a big fan of Heupel and would hope that Coach Stoops does what it takes to keep him here. I believe he would be a great OC now and will be a HC sometime in the future.

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, something is most assuredly wrong, but the problem is -- we just don't know what it is.

In the last three BCS games, there's been at least one quarter where our guys stink it up, or at a minimum play well below the standard -- usually the first or second. I really don't know what that's about, or how to fix it, but there it is. Something is not right, and it's clear the staff can't put their finger on it, because you know that if they could, they'd fix it.

If we put together four quarters, we probably beat LSU and BSU, and USC would have at least been competitive -- remember, we scored on our first drive against them, and it was a botched punt return that set off the rout.

Fix that problem, make sure we put together four quarters every time, and I think we're singing a different tune right now.

Hell, win or lose, I know I would be. I can tolerate losses as long as I know we didn't beat ourself.

[iknowyoudidnt]

Kelly could have bailed Paul out of some of those bad passes like he's been doing all season, that definitely would have helped. I feel bad for saying it, because I have the highest respect for Paul, but Kelly saved his butt more than once this year, and helped cover up some pretty serious accuracy issues. Sorry Paul, I still love ya man.

[iknowyoudidnt]

If we put together four quarters, we probably beat LSU and BSU, and USC would have at least been competitive -- remember, we scored on our first drive against them, and it was a botched punt return that set off the rout.
Man, we punched USC in the mouth on that first drive. I think that's what made it so hard to lose that game, because I got all settled in and ready for a battle...

[soonergooner]

*And we have a problem with our coaches?*

Well said, I was screaming early this year for BVs' head and then started to consider what all this team overcame. Great year, SOONERS! You made us all proud and hung some more hardware..

[SoonerMom2]

My kids had friends in class with him -- ego was #1 in everything he did. Actually the kids that had class with him when he was a Freshman complained about his arrogance and ego in class. I know a lot of kids that cannot figure out the adoration for White because they knew him and didn't care for his attitude. He lost two BCS games and a Big 12 Championship game where we got blown out by KSU. His coming back for the 6th season also hurt Adrian Peterson in the Heisman vote IMHO.

It split the team with younger players when he came back for the 6th season. When you have Mark Clayton and those other receivers, I could probably throw a ball they could catch. If we had a mobile quarterback to play Clayton's last season along with our other receivers, I think we would have beat USC and I think we would have had the same record. Our quarterback would have had the experience of playing with the best group of receivers ever and we would not have had somewhat of a down year last year and had to overcome so much this year IMHO.

The LSU game we lost because White could not move around in the pocket and LSU kept blitzing and sacking him. You may win in the Big 12 without a mobile quarterback but you don't beat teams like USC and LSU without a mobile quarterback because they just keep blitzing. It is just my opinion but I have heard a lot of others express the same thing. When I found out that he couldn't practice everyday, he never should have come back. He had the Heisman and that should have been it. Even there it was a sympathy vote because if a lot of Heisman voters had it to do over again, he wouldn't have won which is why there should be no Heisman until after the Bowl Games IMHO.

[1stTimeCaller]

not to get off the subject here but wasn't Kevin Wilson brought in from outside the program (Northwestern) for the purpose of becoming our OC?

[TopDawg]

Yeah, something is most assuredly wrong, but the problem is -- we just don't know what it is.

In the last three BCS games, there's been at least one quarter where our guys stink it up, or at a minimum play well below the standard -- usually the first or second. I really don't know what that's about, or how to fix it, but there it is. Something is not right, and it's clear the staff can't put their finger on it, because you know that if they could, they'd fix it.

If we put together four quarters, we probably beat LSU and BSU, and USC would have at least been competitive -- remember, we scored on our first drive against them, and it was a botched punt return that set off the rout.

Fix that problem, make sure we put together four quarters every time, and I think we're singing a different tune right now.

Hell, win or lose, I know I would be. I can tolerate losses as long as I know we didn't beat ourself.

The problem, I think, is the perception that we SHOULD be able to put together 4 quarters every time we play a BCS bowl game. If you're playing a BCS bowl game, you're playing against one of the best teams in the nation. "Putting together 4 quaters" is the exception, not the rule. Our opponents are in those games because they've made it a practice to keep THEIR opponents from "putting together 4 quaters" all year long. Just like we have.

The USC game is just..well...ya know. It sucked. And we didn't even play great the entire game against FSU. But against LSU and BSU we killed ourselves by giving them each a defensive touchdown. Without those, we win both games despite not putting together 4 quaters. Why? Because we kept the OTHER teams from putting together 4 quarters. That's the way it goes in (most) big games.

[the_ouskull]

...and we have a problem with our coaches?

Somewhat, yes. I don't feel like, and HAVEN'T felt like since 2003, that Stoops makes major adjustments DURING big games. I think that he feels that his pre-game strategy is what's going to work, and he doesn't seem to react to what is ACTUALLY happening so much as what SHOULD be happening.

Tonights Example: We kept running the ball up the middle, towards their best defenders, instead of to the outside, where AD especially, had some success. I know that Stoops isn't our offensive coordinator, but he's got to recognize when something isn't, and isn't GOING to, work. Ditto with playing soft on Boise's downfield receivers at the end of regulation. We went into the same prevent that got Boise to that point, and it let them get close enough to pull that magic rabbit out of their *ss. Tie game. Overtime.

So yeah, even though it took our second worst game of the year (Tejas being #1) and their absolute best game, not to mention two miracle-*ssed plays, to beat us. Considering what this team overcame this year, they should be proud... but they should NOT be content. That goes for the coaches as well. After Boise tied it, OU gave up. AD didn't give up. OU did.

That's coaching as much as it is the players... but the nonsensical calls on offense and defense... That's not the players.

the_ouskull

[iknowyoudidnt]

Do the players lack confidence in the coordinators? Is their performance possibly tied to some kind of unspoken lack of respect for what they're doing? Maybe there's more to the high number of defections we've had than disgruntled, lazy players?

I'm just trying to get my head around what has happened to us. I can't help but think of those Texas teams that were fat and happy, expecting to roll over people because that's what those players grew up with. All the while, we had a hungry team full of kids with something to prove.

Maybe the reality of the NFL changes players. Better players means a better chance a big payday, and perhaps fear of injury or something holds them back.

BSU played a great game tonight, and they deserved to win. I don't want to take anything away from them, because this is their day, and and they have most certainly earned it. I'm just being introspective about our team because it's clear to me even after watching the game that we had the people on the field to win this one, perhaps even easily, and it didn't happen. We used to do more with less, but now it's very much the opposite, and that's a tough pill to swallow.

[iknowyoudidnt]

I know you're going to get severely negged for disparaging Jason White, but there might be something to your point of his return creating a divide amongst the team's younger and older players, and possibly hurting us in the future with his return. Maybe there's some chemistry missing between the players and coaches.

[Vaevictis]

The problem, I think, is the perception that we SHOULD be able to put together 4 quarters every time we play a BCS bowl game.

You want to win championships? You have to put together 4 quarters every time you play -- BCS bowl game or no. Anything less and you won't win at that level. Period.

You can't win them all, I accept that, but you aren't going to win very many -- if any -- if you don't put together 4 quarters.

[TopDawg]

So yeah, even though it took our second worst game of the year (Tejas being #1)

I don't agree with most of what you say in your post, but I think our disagreement is on too fundamental of a level to make either one of us change our minds and I'm too tired to try...but the part I quoted above is just flat wrong. Oregon was a worse game than this one.

[batonrougesooner]

You want to win championships? You have to put together 4 quarters every time you play -- BCS bowl game or no. Anything less and you won't win at that level. Period.

You can't win them all, I accept that, but you aren't going to win very many -- if any -- if you don't put together 4 quarters.

I agree.

Championships are hard to come by now. If you can't put four quarters together when they matter, you will not win the NC.

There are at least 10 teams right now who could make a legitimate claim to the NC if they were only able to put together four perfect quarters.

That is why we need a playoff.

[OUAndy1807]

not to get off the subject here but wasn't Kevin Wilson brought in from outside the program (Northwestern) for the purpose of becoming our OC?
he was brought in as a o-line coach/run game coordinator under Long.

[TopDawg]

You want to win championships? You have to put together 4 quarters every time you play -- BCS bowl game or no. Anything less and you won't win at that level. Period.

We didn't put together 4 quaters against Nebraska, but we kept them from putting together 2 and made a clutch drive, so we won. We didn't put together 4 quarters against Florida State, but we made a big play when they were backed up, so we won. LSU didn't put together 4 quarters against us...hell, they only put together 1 half...but they still won because we each put together 1 half and they made a big play for a defensive touchdown.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

i dont think coordinators lost that game, paul just made some bad throws, two that woulda gone for TDs, and two bad decisions that he paid for, the tipped pass that got picked for a BSU TD shouldve never been thrown (it was into a lot of coverage), and the roll out that he decided to blindly chuck downfield, regardless he did better then expectations all year and he didnt play well and the PT lovefest after the BXII champ game was premature, regardless he did better then i thought he would and the loss sucks

[1stTimeCaller]

he was brought in as a o-line coach/run game coordinator under Long.

as the heir aparrent to the OC when it became availiable. He was the OC at Northwestern when we brought him in.

[Vaevictis]

We didn't put together 4 quaters against Nebraska

Nebraska may have been in the CCG, but that doesn't mean that they're at the championship level. In fact, it's pretty clear they're not.


We didn't put together 4 quarters against Florida State, but we made a big play when they were backed up, so we won.

Nonsense. They scored two points on a safety. And even that was a heads up play by the punter to take it into the end zone and make sure we got to kick off instead of letting them take possession inside our ten.

You simply can't get better than holding the top offense in the nation to zero points. And making a big play when they were backed up? Just who do you think backed them up? Our defense was playing lights out.


LSU didn't put together 4 quarters against us...hell, they only put together 1 half...but they still won because we each put together 1 half and they made a big play for a defensive touchdown.

Okay, fair enough. But I will disagree with us putting together a full half. We didn't.

And for what it's worth, when I say "putting together four quarters", I'm talking about avoiding systemic breakdowns on the team for four quarters. I'm not talking playing perfect ball here. A busted play here and there is going to happen. A good team will force you to bust plays. What I'm talking about is not busting them yourself. No freebies. Make them earn it.

[TopDawg]

And for what it's worth, when I say "putting together four quarters", I'm talking about avoiding systemic breakdowns on the team for four quarters. I'm not talking playing perfect ball here. A busted play here and there is going to happen. A good team will force you to bust plays. What I'm talking about is not busting them yourself. No freebies. Make them earn it.

Fair enough. I had a more rigid definition. But even against FSU, with your standard, we had some breakdowns in that game. Heupel threw a red-zone INT and then another INT later (or earlier, I forget). Thankfully our defense put together 4 quarters and there may have never been a better 4 quarters of defensive football than the 4 they put together that night. But our offense certainly didn't. All I'm saying is that when the level of play goes up like it does in a BCS game, it's not normal to put together 4 quarters. Your opponent is in the game because, most of the time, they've made a habit out of forcing teams into systemic breakdowns. You've just got to hope that you have less than they do. And, for the most part, that's how our "big bowl games" have gone in the Stoops era.

2000 Orange - Played great, we forced them into more errors
2002 Rose - Played great, we forced more errors
2003 Sugar - Played them straight up and a pick-6 killed us...they forced more errors
2004 Orange - Abomination
2006 Fiesta - Played them straight up and a pick-6 killed us...they forced more errors

So it's not like we've played horribly in the last 3. In 2004 we did, but in the other two we were right with them, we just had one more crucial mistake than they did. It sucks, but that's the price you pay for playing in the big game. Unlike us, Texas had the luxury of making multiple mistakes and still winning their game. But they were playing in San Antonio.

[LittleWingSooner]

We try to beat teams physically every time we play. In big games against good teams it won't always work because with the influx of talent in college football you aren't gonna be more physical then every team in college football. It doesn't even work in the NFL. Stoops is from a defensive, run the ball down your throat mentality. But in this day and age it won't work that well. Especially in big games.

[SoonerMom2]

I know you're going to get severely negged for disparaging Jason White, but there might be something to your point of his return creating a divide amongst the team's younger and older players, and possibly hurting us in the future with his return. Maybe there's some chemistry missing between the players and coaches.

I am surprised I wasn't really clobbered. That said, I think Long's decision last year to bench Thompson so quick and put in Bomar hurt on top of what happened to Thompson with White coming back for a 6th season. Long didn't give Thompson a fair shot IMHO and look what happened with Bomar who Long loved -- sure glad Long is gone! I have to wonder where PT would have been as a quarterback if White had not come back and Bomar did not replace him in the 1st game.

After what Heupel did with PT as the quarterback, I cannot wait to see our quarterback next year. The players came together this year after the Texas game but last year I never had the feeling they played together as a team which was a holdover from the 6th season of White and that debacle of a BCS game. PT was a leader the younger players looked up to which I think bodes well for the future quarterback. A lot of the players never did look up to Bomar but Long seemed to be oblivious. Personally think that 2004/2005 were the seasons that caused the problems in chemistry but I truly think in 2007, we will see the chemistry return because these younger players seem to enjoy playing together after the Texas game and it should carry over.

[LittleWingSooner]

Fair enough. I had a more rigid definition. But even against FSU, with your standard, we had some breakdowns in that game. Heupel threw a red-zone INT and then another INT later (or earlier, I forget). Thankfully our defense put together 4 quarters and there may have never been a better 4 quarters of defensive football than the 4 they put together that night. But our offense certainly didn't. All I'm saying is that when the level of play goes up like it does in a BCS game, it's not normal to put together 4 quarters. Your opponent is in the game because, most of the time, they've made a habit out of forcing teams into systemic breakdowns. You've just got to hope that you have less than they do. And, for the most part, that's how our "big bowl games" have gone in the Stoops era.

2000 Orange - Played great, we forced them into more errors
2002 Rose - Played great, we forced more errors
2003 Sugar - Played them straight up and a pick-6 killed us...they forced more errors
2004 Orange - Abomination
2006 Fiesta - Played them straight up and a pick-6 killed us...they forced more errors

So it's not like we've played horribly in the last 3. In 2004 we did, but in the other two we were right with them, we just had one more crucial mistake than they did. It sucks, but that's the price you pay for playing in the big game. Unlike us, Texas had the luxury of making multiple mistakes and still winning their game. But they were playing in San Antonio.

Look at the style of offense we had in the first 2. We had a more gimmicky offense then. Even in 02 when we ran real well we did it from the shotgun a lot. We had some I but mostly in goalline. Our best receiver was Q Griffin and we used the TE. That offense was impossible to predict except in short yardage. Now the only offense we run is short yardage offense or based off of it. I would like to see us have an offense like we did in 2002 or 2003. Not those formations but pass it in run formations and run in pass formations. We just seem to do everything off similar formations now.

[1stTimeCaller]

on the 03 Sugar. I never got the impression that we were in the game. Sure we got beat by a TD but it was never really close. We were beat in all phases of the game.

IMO, we had terrible showings in our last three BCS games.

[SoonerMom2]

We wear down teams and as I posted on another thread, in the BCS there are too many commercial breaks and they are too long for us to wear down a team. Boise State was tired but getting a five-minute break everytime you turned around, gave them a breather. In regular games, our superior strength does wear down a team but not in a BCS game with all the long commercial breaks.

BTW, what was with the timeout we were charged with when they pointed out to the incompetent Big 10 refs that BSU had 12 men on the field when they broke the huddle and one ran off. Big 10 refs have blinders unless it happens right in front of them and they have no choice but to throw a flag. Their bragging about replay on every play is a joke as well.

[LittleWingSooner]

We were in that game because of our defense. We did have a shot to win it inside the 15. But our playcalling hurt our offense that game. I think since the KSU game that year when nothing worked we have gone conservative in big games since. Against KSU we had the big run early then we couldn't run a play on offense without something going wrong. It was just KSU's day. After that it seems like we just wanted to try and either out physical teams or play a game to keep the games close and let our D win.

[1stTimeCaller]

Respectfully disagree. The score was close but we were not in that game. We had one shot to tie it. One.

[Octavian]

So, should we rethink our Coordinator hiring philosophies?

no.

[LittleWingSooner]

We were lucky that the LSU score wasn't 35-14. I agree there. But fact is if we continue to run the ball we probably are talking about OT in that game against an LSU D that was worn down.

[RedGiant]

Absolutely. As soon as Vulnerables finds himself a new home, he should start immediately with the new philosophy.

[FrostySooner]

I guess I can't understand why we had to change our philosophy in the last game of the season. When AD went down, I figured we would have to reconsider our philosophy, but we didn't. Instead, we just stuck with what had worked for us. It seemed as though Wilson got confused in the Fiesta Bowl. I was calling for the stretch play all night when AD was in. The only time I recall it being ran was in OT when AD broke it for a 25 yd TD. Patrick is our between the tackles runner. AD is our outside runner. And what about all this motion by AD in this game??? And what about ALL of the shotgun formations??? That is not what got us to the Fiesta Bowl. Running the ball and creating passing opportunities through playaction is what got us to AZ. I saw VERY LITTLE of that tonight.

I do think that Kevin Wilson is a good coach but he needs to stick to coaching offensive linemen IMO. We need to bring in a couple of OC's I think. One that is run oriented and one that is pass oriented then let them create the perfect offense for the talent we have. I think Josh could be one of them on the passing side of it. Of course, if we change our offensive philosophy in the biggest game of the year, it really doesn't matter anyway.

[critical_phil]

every loss for OU brings a whole new batch of idiots to this board.


and i'm not talking about 1TC...he's been an idiot here for quite some time.

[RedGiant]

So I guess anyone that has a different opinion than you is now an idiot? Irregardless of how true their opinion might be? Your welcoming spirit this time of year is touching Sister Teresa. God bless you and yours.

[critical_phil]

you have four posts on this board - two of them contain the word irregardless.


fwiw, i'm not calling you an idiot in this thread. that's in another thread.

[iknowyoudidnt]

There's no shortage of people on this board that think they're somehow superior because they spend a lot more time here than others. Don't let it surprise or bother you, it's just a childish form of elitism being played out by a bunch of adults.

[critical_phil]

There's no shortage of people on this board that think they're somehow superior because they spend a lot more time here than others. Don't let it surprise or bother you, it's just a childish form of elitism being played out by a bunch of adults.


i'm not proposing some kind of correlation between low post count and idiocy. i'm simply commenting on the new batch of idiots, who are free to post here as often as they like. it won't make them (or me) any smarter if they do.

[RedGiant]

And once again your wonderful attitude is so heartwarming to see. You're such a champ. I can tell you're the toast of all your friends and family by being the internet tough guy. God bless you friend, I hope you feel better about yourself at what you deem is my expense. By the way, in case you didn't get the memo, I'm laughing at your absurdity.

iknowyoudidnt, it is true these places usually have their certain untouchables that inflate their egos by trying to diminish others. It's a fact of life the weak, when given a chance, will do such things. But thanks for the kind warning it is appreciated.

[iknowyoudidnt]

Well, hopefully the site doesn't try to discourage new people from joining that don't share some standard view on certain topics. The difference of opinion is is what makes this forum interesting, and what drives discussion. The moderators seem quite eager to ban people that act out, new or otherwise, and that should be plenty.

I hate these losses too, because too many "regulars" come out and feign superiority to noobs that dare suggest something they don't like, or don't agree with.

[RedGiant]

PS CP: I didn't beat your team, Boise did. Perhaps if you could remember to take out your frustrations through proper channels you would look less foolish in the future.

[1stTimeCaller]

So I guess anyone that has a different opinion than you is now an idiot? Irregardless of how true their opinion might be? Your welcoming spirit this time of year is touching Sister Teresa. God bless you and yours.

does your husband know that you are using his computer?

[SoonerTerry]

Your welcoming spirit this time of year is touching Sister Teresa.

Thats kind of a strange thing to say...

[SoonerTerry]

Irregardless .

..you keep using that word..... I do not think it means what you think it means:D :D

[wishbonesooner]

After a month layoff we looked rusty. Wow, we should fire our whole staff. Some of you need to get a life. 11-3, and who would have thought that possible on Aug 2?

[SoonerTerry]

:pop: :D :D

[aurorasooner]

we're way too hard-headed with our play calling when AD is in the game. KW's 1st down play calling put us in a big hole. that being said, he's done a good job this year after AD was hurt, but when AD is in the game, his play calling imo goes all to hell. as far as BV goes. he's not going anywhere, unless we don't recruit some bigger and stronger beef for the defensive front 4. we got pushed out of our lanes and all over the place in the 1st half. jmho, but AD doesn't play in this game, we win easily. when AD is in everyone on the offense seems to want to watch instead of block and expects him to do it all on his own, and as said above, KW even wants to watch AD to the point that his play calling and offensive alignments are just way too obvious. like someone said on another board. if marcus walker grabs that pick and instead of scoring, steps out of bounds. we run the clock down, and kick a 3 for the win. for all that s*@t that boise state pulled on the last drive and in overtime to work, you have to have all the stars lined up together. it just wasn't our night.

[OUAndy1807]

After a month layoff we looked rusty. Wow, we should fire our whole staff. Some of you need to get a life. 11-3....
some of you need to learn to read. no one said fire the whole staff

[LittleWingSooner]

we're way too hard-headed with our play calling when AD is in the game. KW's 1st down play calling put us in a big hole. that being said, he's done a good job this year after AD was hurt, but when AD is in the game, his play calling imo goes all to hell. as far as BV goes. he's not going anywhere, unless we don't recruit some bigger and stronger beef for the defensive front 4. we got pushed out of our lanes and all over the place in the 1st half. jmho, but AD doesn't play in this game, we win easily. when AD is in everyone on the offense seems to want to watch instead of block and expects him to do it all on his own, and as said above, KW even wants to watch AD to the point that his play calling and offensive alignments are just way too obvious. like someone said on another board. if marcus walker grabs that pick and instead of scoring, steps out of bounds. we run the clock down, and kick a 3 for the win. for all that s*@t that boise state pulled on the last drive and in overtime to work, you have to have all the stars lined up together. it just wasn't our night.

The problem with our playcalling is that it equalizes the talent. We don't come out aggressive. Look at what USC usually does. They are constantly aggressive. They don't just try and beat you up physically. We just try and keep games close and win games with defense.

[OklahomaTuba]

Once we did get aggresive, we started moving the ball.

I also think the problem is we are YOUNG and have a guy at QB that isn't really a world beater talent wise, but one hell of a leader.

[soonerloyal]

The threat of the Mighty Ban Hammer looms, and I too fear it. But...

Have we become Texas?


March yourself right into the bathroom right this minute and put the soap in your mouth.

Sit your hiney down, and don't move until I tell you to. And no dessert for a week, either.


Have you taken leave of your mind?

[leavingthezoo]

what baffles me is that you guys are more angry about an offense who gained 40+ points (overcame a ridiculous deficit, stupid turnovers, and a stuffed run game) to take the lead in the final couple of minutes than you are with a defense who gave up 40+ points, period. that's pathetic.

and no, that isn't me saying BV is a bad coach. that's me saying, "OU gave up 40+ freakin' points- and only 7 of those were a direct result of turnovers."

i blame coaches. i blame players. i blame bsu. but i especially blame giving up 40+ points. with that being said, it's over. bleh.

[LittleWingSooner]

We scored a TD off an INT and off a muffed punt. We also scored a TD in OT. Take those out we don't look near as good. I think we need a change in offensive philosophy before this happens against Texas last year. Every big game the last since the USC game we've looked terrible on offense in big games. We only looked really good on offense in desperation time. Why didn't we run that type of offense more often this year?

[tulsaoilerfan]

Biggest coaching decision that made me scratch my head was not running Adrian when we had 2nd and goal from the 5 down 11 pts;instead we throw a fade to a guy that caught 1 pass all season until last night, then the 3rd down play, well i'm not sure exactly what that was; it was almost like Wilson thought he would be cute instead of lining up the hammer for 3 straight downs if needed.

[tulsaoilerfan]

what baffles me is that you guys are more angry about an offense who gained 40+ points (overcame a ridiculous deficit, stupid turnovers, and a stuffed run game) to take the lead in the final couple of minutes than you are with a defense who gave up 40+ points, period. that's pathetic.

and no, that isn't me saying BV is a bad coach. that's me saying, "OU gave up 40+ freakin' points- and only 7 of those were a direct result of turnovers."

i blame coaches. i blame players. i blame bsu. but i especially blame giving up 40+ points. with that being said, it's over. bleh.
Actually 14 points came directly from TO's for both teams; we both got a fumble inside the 10 and scored, and both returned Int's for TD's

[LittleWingSooner]

Biggest coaching decision that made me scratch my head was not running Adrian when we had 2nd and goal from the 5 down 11 pts;instead we throw a fade to a guy that caught 1 pass all season until last night, then the 3rd down play, well i'm not sure exactly what that was; it was almost like Wilson thought he would be cute instead of lining up the hammer for 3 straight downs if needed.

I think Wilson doesn't know when to be aggressive and when to just run it down their throat. We haven't had that type of an offensive coordinator since Long in 2002 and 2003 though.

[Ban One Sooner]

BTW, Jason White costs us the LSU game when he wouldn't come out of the game and couldn't avoid the pass rush. In fact, Jason White coming back for a 6th season costs us IMHO because he couldn't stand up for the entire season and by the time we got to the Championship game, he was toast. Coming back for his ego costs us and is still costing us IMHO. Think how good Thompson would have been if he had been given a chance before Long decided Bomar was the only choice last season and pulled Thompson in the first game.


Yeah, it's all Jason White's fault :rolleyes: . Thompson played admirably this year, but he's limited as a QB. There is in fact some logic behind his previous move to WR. You've seen how good Thompson could be this year, plain and simple, as a QB he just does not have a big upside. Jason White coming back let us win a Big12 championship and play for another MNC, minus that we probably would have lost several games that season. Obviously, you know him personally to be able to divulge that his entire decision was based on ego.

[leavingthezoo]

Actually 14 points came directly from TO's for both teams; we both got a fumble inside the 10 and scored, and both returned Int's for TD's

good catch. i'm still not as upset with the offense as i am the defense though. maybe i still long for the low scoring games that used to bore the rest of the nation to sleep. :O

[sooners00]

We lost our starting QB a month before the season.
We lost our starting RB midway through the season.
We had a game stolen from us in Oregon.

And we still made it to a BCS bowl game.

In that bowl game, we lost our "new" playmaker in the 1st quarter and lost on a trick play 2-point conversion in overtime.

And we have a problem with our coaches?

And lost to Boise State who is a WAC team.

OU got outplayed and it took a lot of luck for them to even get back in that ball game.

[birddog]

After a month layoff we looked rusty. Wow, we should fire our whole staff. Some of you need to get a life. 11-3, and who would have thought that possible on Aug 2?


that was really my only concern. we were on such a roll for the last 2 months and then we get a month off.

seems to me bowl games are the great levelers for underdogs. it's like the first game of the season for everyone.

[TopDawg]

And lost to Boise State who is a WAC team.

OU got outplayed and it took a lot of luck for them to even get back in that ball game.

I was just asking why we're so upset at our coaches for losing that game, when they did an incredible job just to get us there. And, despite not having our biggest offensive playmaker in the game for 80% of the game, we still took a Top 10 team into overtime. Yeah, there were some questionable play calls, but that shouldn't wipe out what they've done up until now.

[TopDawg]

Also, have you seen the Big XII this year in bowl games? The teams Boise State beat this year looked good in their bowl games. The teams we beat (and lost to) certainly did not.

[LittleWingSooner]

TopDawg I agree there. Our schedule wasn't that strong. But I think we were the better team. We just got out schemed. And if you look at the big games in recent years the same thing has happened. After the Texas game in 2002 we were down 14-11 at half time everyone knew we would win that game because Texas was just gonna try and out physical OU, but OU found a way to out scheme them to end the half. Well we really don't out scheme teams now. All we try to do is line up and physically whip teams.

[sooners00]

I was just asking why we're so upset at our coaches for losing that game, when they did an incredible job just to get us there. And, despite not having our biggest offensive playmaker in the game for 80% of the game, we still took a Top 10 team into overtime. Yeah, there were some questionable play calls, but that shouldn't wipe out what they've done up until now.

Not to be a downer but the big 12 is just bad thats why.

I give the coaches credit for doing what they did but winning the big this year wasnt all that great of an accomplishment.

Texas pretty much gift wrapped it away.

Big 12 is a bad conference. Really bad conference and if Vinnables ran this kind of defense anywhere else it would get exploited.

Hes 1 -3 in bowl games as a D Coordinator and out of conference teams have made the defense look like a joke.

[RedGiant]

does your husband know that you are using his computer?
Don't worry 1st time it'll be ok. You're frustrated to and your infantile attempt to boost all that self-esteem you have wrapped up living vicariously through images on a television set by thinking you've got something really snazzy to say is forgiven to. I understand your inner child is crying and you feel really bad about yourself, but trying to take it out on someone else is childish as well as foolish.

[RedGiant]

Not to be a downer but the big 12 is just bad thats why.

I give the coaches credit for doing what they did but winning the big this year wasnt all that great of an accomplishment.

Texas pretty much gift wrapped it away.

Big 12 is a bad conference. Really bad conference and if Vinnables ran this kind of defense anywhere else it would get exploited.

Hes 1 -3 in bowl games as a D Coordinator and out of conference teams have made the defense look like a joke.
Yes the awful Big XII did boost the stats a bit and yes this defense has been pillaged since Mike left. He's just not getting the job done. I wish he could, I wish he would. The simple fact of the matter is KSU didn't want him and nobody else has come calling for him either. What does that tell you? He's not the Golden Child we were all hoping for.

[Texas Golfer]

Two things about our offense last night cost us the game: PT's early four turnovers putting us in a deep hole and our OL inability to create holes for the running game.

The defense is what really cost us the game. Their receivers were wide open all night and our secondary couldn't catch a pass even if it hit them in the hands.

Everyone is still talking about the "hook and ladder" and all of the trickery. None of their trick plays would have even occured had we not let them complete that pass on 4th and 18 in the first place.

[RedGiant]

Two things about our offense last night cost us the game: PT's early four turnovers putting us in a deep hole and our OL inability to create holes for the running game.

The defense is what really cost us the game. Their receivers were wide open all night and our secondary couldn't catch a pass even if it hit them in the hands.

Everyone is still talking about the "hook and ladder" and all of the trickery. None of their trick plays would have even occured had we not let them complete that pass on 4th and 18 in the first place.

Well now they're going to be anonomously calling you an idiot and worse and all that green's going to be turning to red. I couldn't agree more though. It's not about the trick play. It's about the defensive performance or lack thereof in general we should be worried about.

[1stTimeCaller]

Don't worry 1st time it'll be ok. You're frustrated to and your infantile attempt to boost all that self-esteem you have wrapped up living vicariously through images on a television set by thinking you've got something really snazzy to say is forgiven to. I understand your inner child is crying and you feel really bad about yourself, but trying to take it out on someone else is childish as well as foolish.

Those are a lot of fancy words in your post but you might want to check into the various forms of to, too and two and learn to use them correctly. It really negates all those words that you looked up in your thesaurus.

heh. That's the problem most of us have with you new people that come on here and try to just jump into the conversations. Do yourself a favor and read the board for a while, see who is serious and who isn't and then you will be able to have an intelligent conversation on here without getting your panties in a wad. FYI, two is not a form of to and too, it was thrown in there as a joke.

[bluedogok]

you don't think we got outcoached by a 1st year coach tonight?
Petersen my be a first year head coach but he has been at BSU since 1995 (Wide Receivers Coach) and had been the OC/QB Coach since 2001. When Hawkins went to CU many BSU fans were saying that was fine as long as Petersen was still at BSU. Remember what Stoops, Tressel and Carroll did as second year coaches from the outside, Petersen was a first year coach with his own players since he came from the outside.

A hungry team takes chances, sometimes they work and other times they don't.

[OUAndy1807]

Petersen my be a first year head coach but he has been at BSU since 1995 (Wide Receivers Coach) and had been the OC/QB Coach since 2001. When Hawkins went to CU many BSU fans were saying that was fine as long as Petersen was still at BSU. Remember what Stoops, Tressel and Carroll did as second year coaches from the outside, Petersen was a first year coach with his own players since he came from the outside.

A hungry team takes chances, sometimes they work and other times they don't.
1) Answer the question you quoted.
2) Are you saying Stoops isn't hungry any more?

[goingoneight]

Everyone seems to attack OUr coaching staff. Like they can accomplish in eight seasons what Chuck Faibanks and Barry Switzer took over twenty years to build. Come on folks, it was a one-point loss to an undefeated team in overtime, a high-scoring shootout in which the opponent got the coin toss and the ball spots all night long. BSU just played good enough to win, that's not impossible.

[OU-HSV]

...you don't think we got outcoached by a 1st year coach tonight?
Yep. Their tricks were too much for us..I know I read somewhere today that our coaches warned our players to watch for some tricks...but to me our defense simply looked unprepared on all three of the main trick plays that beat us. Makes me wonder what specific trick plays we could have practiced for from their past game films. Props to Boise State for being so ballsy and knowing what it would take to get it done at the end. And props to them for running those trick plays to damn near perfection.

[bluedogok]

1) Answer the question you quoted.
2) Are you saying Stoops isn't hungry any more?
I meant to clip the first part out as I was merely trying to relay information that Petersen didn't just start coaching this year.

As I have posted on some other threads, Stoops seems to have lost the "gambler" mentality when his brother left. I hear a quote from Mack on a Sirius radio college football show ad during the season talking about how Switzer told him when he was at OU that feeding the monster is harder than building the monster. The monster seems to have an out of control hunger and nothing he does will feed it entirely (re: Bama). IF you win, you didn't win by enough or you didn't win the "right" way, if you lose you're a bum. This afflicts many institutions throughout life (not just sports) in this instant gratification society.

I also think much of the "hunger" that the 2000 team is gone because they are recruiting a higher level of athlete than they had at that time. That team knew what it was like to struggle and knew what work was required, I don't see the same sense of urgency that there was back then. They have more athletes now that have been prima donas and don't seem to work like that team, or play with their head like that team. The teams since seem to play on talent and reputation more so than those other teams. You need a mix of athletes, too many top recruits who have been coddled and had the rears kissed forever expect it to continue.

I think it is a combination of issues with no clear cut solutions.

[leavingthezoo]

1) Answer the question you quoted.
2) Are you saying Stoops isn't hungry any more?

i'm hungry...

for orange chicken.

[bluedogok]

I prefer Generals Chicken, but Orange will do......

[FormerSoonerProf]

The playcalling in this Fiesta Bowl game on both defense and offense seemed to not suit the talent on the field. True the players themselves made mistakes - fumbles/interceptions (on offense) and missing easy interceptions (on defense), but the coaching/playcalling was not at the same level one has grown to expect when AD went out after the ISU game. It looked flat and all those runs up the middle were ugly and grew old in a hurry. WHere is the sooner magic?, the risk taking? the "in-your-face, break you down" attitude? I think we have lost the "edge" both in players and coaches ... but I think it starts with the coaches to set the stage for the players (my humble opinion).

[leavingthezoo]

what does that have to do with chicken?

:D

[PLaw]

The Defense can't stay focused for 4 quarters. The play outstanding in spurts, but seem to relax too often.

Fundamentals (tackling and being in position) have gone south as the talent level has risen. Clearly, Carroll gets high performance from great talent. Stoops & Co. seem to get great performance from average talent, but not the higher horsepower from the 5 stars.

Play calling on the defensive side of the ball is much more conservative bend, don't break instead of attack.

Only when the HC made the decision to get more involved in the defense after the Oregon loss did play improve.

Venables is 1 - 3 in bowl games as the DC.

I know my manager would have me on a Performance Improvement Plan if my annual results looked like Brent's. I think we have seen enough, but I don't believe Bob has.

[Scott D]

last time they brought in someone to be a coordinator from 'the outside', actually both someones, the fanbase seems to think they ran both of them off.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

i posted this in another thread but it applies here too:

i think the fault just lies on the players after this one. the defense didnt play that bad but the score looks bloated because of PT's fumble that left BSU on the 8 and the pick he threw for a TD. OT also blows up the score, starting from the 25 is like playing russian roulette with four bullets in a gun, its pretty likely the other team is gonna come away with some points. although i dont think BV is a great defensive coordinator by himself, i wouldnt mind seeing them hiring another on to help him like they used to have.

on offense its not kevin wilsons fault that PT cant really throw that accurately over 15 yards. hes terrible at the deep ball so that kind of eliminates those plays. he struggles to consistently hit receivers in stride. that makes the running game more attractive but i dont think he was creative enough with the run. i think they were playing to not lose early in the game rather then win, they wanted to keep hold of the ball by running between the tackles with all of the fumbling problems the team has had this year.

so that being said i wouldnt blame it too much on the coordinators but id like to see more creativity like stoopsy had in the earlier years.

[RedGiant]

Those are a lot of fancy words in your post but you might want to check into the various forms of to, too and two and learn to use them correctly. It really negates all those words that you looked up in your thesaurus.

heh. That's the problem most of us have with you new people that come on here and try to just jump into the conversations. Do yourself a favor and read the board for a while, see who is serious and who isn't and then you will be able to have an intelligent conversation on here without getting your panties in a wad. FYI, two is not a form of to and too, it was thrown in there as a joke.
Oh ok, I get it. You're one of the elitists on here. And you think I'm worried about to too or two as you call it when I'm banging out a response to an internet ruffian such as yourself right? Just because your Merriam-Webster dictionary was burried under your stash of porn and comic books don't try get on here and act like you're a big shot with an english degree. Can't you think of a better response than that, or did you get a headache just trying to come up with that one?

[Scott D]

Oh ok, I get it. You're one of the elitists on here. And you think I'm worried about to too or two as you call it when I'm banging out a response to an internet ruffian such as yourself right? Just because your Merriam-Webster dictionary was burried under your stash of porn and comic books don't try get on here and act like you're a big shot with an english degree. Can't you think of a better response than that, or did you get a headache just trying to come up with that one?

puhleeze, comic books are too complex for 1stTimeCaller. He's more of a See Spot Run and Dick And Jane kind of reader.

[OSUAggie]

Oh ok, I get it. You're one of the elitists on here. And you think I'm worried about to too or two as you call it when I'm banging out a response to an internet ruffian such as yourself right? Just because your Merriam-Webster dictionary was burried under your stash of porn and comic books don't try get on here and act like you're a big shot with an english degree. Can't you think of a better response than that, or did you get a headache just trying to come up with that one?

You missed a few commas in there, by the way. Also, what is burried?

[ashley]

Our coaches did a great job this year and then we get beat by one point and now the sky is falling. This stuff is not as easy as it looks or everyone would be doing it.

[OUAndy1807]

Our coaches did a great job this year and then we get beat by one point and now the sky is falling. This stuff is not as easy as it looks or everyone would be doing it.
you brought absolutely nothing to the conversation. congratulations.

[msooner]

The Defense can't stay focused for 4 quarters. The play outstanding in spurts, but seem to relax too often.

Fundamentals (tackling and being in position) have gone south as the talent level has risen. Clearly, Carroll gets high performance from great talent. Stoops & Co. seem to get great performance from average talent, but not the higher horsepower from the 5 stars.

Play calling on the defensive side of the ball is much more conservative bend, don't break instead of attack.

Only when the HC made the decision to get more involved in the defense after the Oregon loss did play improve.

Venables is 1 - 3 in bowl games as the DC.

I know my manager would have me on a Performance Improvement Plan if my annual results looked like Brent's. I think we have seen enough, but I don't believe Bob has.

I totally agree that Venables' defense lacks what Mike Stoops brought to the game. You don't see the viscious hits. You don't see the attack style. I see Brent's defense playing on its heels most of the time. Too many times the play calls were getting in late. I never did like Brent's style of defense. Way too conservative for a Sooner Championship team. We need more head hunting and gang tackling!

[Scott D]

I totally agree that Venables' defense lacks what Mike Stoops brought to the game. You don't see the viscious hits. You don't see the attack style. I see Brent's defense playing on its heels most of the time. Too many times the play calls were getting in late. I never did like Brent's style of defense. Way too conservative for a Sooner Championship team. We need more head hunting and gang tackling!

I wonder why we ran off Bo Pellini....hmmmmmmmmmmm

[LittleWingSooner]

I think it's more the players aren't as good as it is the coaching. We don't have a physical guy like Derrick Strait at corner. But how many teams have that guy? How many Roy Williams' are there? Same thing at linebacker. Rufus and Latimer are good players. But are they Marshall, Mitchell, Calmus, and Lehman?

[Crimsontothecore]

WOW! I have just read every post in this thread and here's what I've learned;
1. Bob Stoops doesn't know how to hire assistants.
2. Our coaches don't know how to motivate the team.
3. Our coordinators are incompetent on both sides of the ball.
4. Our Heisman winning QB damaged this teams chemistry.

I feel pretty stupid for being satisfied with an 11-3 record and a conference title

I'm just waiting for someone to say that Stoops was a bad hire:rolleyes:

God I hope coach Stoops doesn't read this garbage.

[RedGiant]

No, they are not. They are decent in the run game, but in pass defense they leave much to be desired. The secondary is obviously in the same trouble they've been in for a few years now. Does it come down to talent or is the coaching that atrocious?

[LittleWingSooner]

We don't have the guys on the back of our defense that can just knock the other team out. Nic Harris is the closest one to that. I don't think any of the others are great tacklers. Add to that we don't get a great pass rush because we aren't as good at tackle as we have been with Dvoracek, McGruder, and Harris who always at least took up double teams.

[RedGiant]

WOW! I have just read every post in this thread and here's what I've learned;
1. Bob Stoops doesn't know how to hire assistants.
2. Our coaches don't know how to motivate the team.
3. Our coordinators are incompetent on both sides of the ball.
4. Our Heisman winning QB damaged this teams chemistry.

I feel pretty stupid for being satisfied with an 11-3 record and a conference title

I'm just waiting for someone to say that Stoops was a bad hire:rolleyes:

God I hope coach Stoops doesn't read this garbage.

Yes, because we all know Bob Stoops is the Almighty GOD of football and can do no wrong. Maybe, just maybe, he's made some **** poor hires. Time will tell but I would think that with the recent performances and ceteris paribus, these kinds of things will continue. They are not like the teams put out before Mike's departure, especially on D.

[Big Red Ron]

i have a solution, offer Mike Stoops and Fatman Mangino each 800gs to come back:DWith all due respect to everyone involved, they don't seem to be doing much more than average where thay are now.

[RedGiant]

You missed a few commas in there, by the way. Also, what is burried?
Another frustrated by the loss I see. It's very nice of you to feel the need to input something into the conversation. I'm sure there are many goats for you to felate and sodomize so you better get busy Cracker Jack.

[RedGiant]

And to the anonymous brainiac that suggested it couldn't possibly be atrocious coaching, please tell me how backing into the Big XII game because everyone else is MORE incompetent, excuses poor coaching that allows a team like Boise to confuse the supposed almighty and fixed Sooner D?

[birddog]

ok, i'll ask you now redgiant, explain to me how we backed in to the big xii game.

[OUAndy1807]

WOW! I have just read every post in this thread and here's what I've learned;
1. Bob Stoops doesn't know how to hire assistants.
2. Our coaches don't know how to motivate the team.
3. Our coordinators are incompetent on both sides of the ball.
4. Our Heisman winning QB damaged this teams chemistry.

I feel pretty stupid for being satisfied with an 11-3 record and a conference title

I'm just waiting for someone to say that Stoops was a bad hire:rolleyes:

God I hope coach Stoops doesn't read this garbage.
this is a forum for discussion, not ***-licking. there's nothing wrong with talking about this stuff. some people like to think rather than live life as a lemming never questioning a thing. others don't.

[RedGiant]

A full on Texas collapse of epic proportions I suppose doesn't count? I didn't think so.

[RedGiant]

HAHA, I love all you guys. You're cracking me up. Apparently there is more than one guy with his self-esteem wrapped up in this message board. Being anonymous is your friend.

[Big Red Ron]

Dood, five trick plays in the last three minutes and four tournovers...that's what it took for BSU to squeek an OT win over us. I doubt you ever see a team play like that again. They had NOTHING to lose and played like it. Good for them.

Considering the circumstances we've been throught thid year, I am very proud of this season. Big XII champs and were part of one of the best games in History.

[birddog]

why would it?

every team plays their conference schedule and the team with the best record goes to the big xii game.

backing in is losing and still going because someone else loses. that didn't happen with us. we won all of our games, minus texas.

[birddog]

HAHA, I love all you guys. You're cracking me up. Apparently there is more than one guy with his self-esteem wrapped up in this message board. Being anonymous is your friend.

become a sponsor and it won't be anonymous. pretty simple. if you don't care, and it looks like you do, shrug it off.

[1stTimeCaller]

Oh ok, I get it. You're one of the elitists on here. And you think I'm worried about to too or two as you call it when I'm banging out a response to an internet ruffian such as yourself right? Just because your Merriam-Webster dictionary was burried under your stash of porn and comic books don't try get on here and act like you're a big shot with an english degree. Can't you think of a better response than that, or did you get a headache just trying to come up with that one?

I guess you missed the second paragraph. If you had read any of my posts you would see that I'm far from an elitists. Please go read the second paragraph. I'm no big shot with an english degree, I'm just a guy with a degree in Construction Science. I also don't throw out $5 words when talking smack only to royally f up the proper usage of 'to' and 'too'.

Settle down, have a beer, read the board for a while and when you think you have a good feel for the posters on here and our various styles, come back and have a good conversation with us.

[Crimsontothecore]

Yes, because we all know Bob Stoops is the Almighty GOD of football and can do no wrong. Maybe, just maybe, he's made some **** poor hires. Time will tell but I would think that with the recent performances and ceteris paribus, these kinds of things will continue. They are not like the teams put out before Mike's departure, especially on D.
What will continue? Winning conference titles?

[Crimsontothecore]

this is a forum for discussion, not ***-licking. there's nothing wrong with talking about this stuff. some people like to think rather than live life as a lemming never questioning a thing. others don't.
If you were capable of thinking, you would understand what this coach and his staff has accomplished over the last eight years and you would see how stupid you look for being dissatisfied.

[RedGiant]

become a sponsor and it won't be anonymous. pretty simple. if you don't care, and it looks like you do, shrug it off.
It looks like I do because I'm laughing at you, lol. It sounds like I mean more to you than you mean to me cause I'm not the one acting like a moron negging everyone I don't agree with. But... whatever helps you sleep at night.

[RedGiant]

I guess you missed the second paragraph. If you had read any of my posts you would see that I'm far from an elitists. Please go read the second paragraph. I'm no big shot with an english degree, I'm just a guy with a degree in Construction Science. I also don't throw out $5 words when talking smack only to royally f up the proper usage of 'to' and 'too'.

Settle down, have a beer, read the board for a while and when you think you have a good feel for the posters on here and our various styles, come back and have a good conversation with us.
Once again elitist bull****. Thanks for playing though friend.

[1stTimeCaller]

did you forget to take your meds?