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Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 02:03 PM
I've been thinking that it would be a good idea to have one of these so that instead of a bunch of different threads people could just look at this one. Can one of the mods stabby this? (Thanks!)

Ground Rules: Nobody is stupid. Nobody's new purchase sucks. The thread is for informational purposes to help people who are just getting into high-definition displays and are confused by all the acronyms and tech-geek words some of us throw around.

Definitions.

Resolution: TV standard in the US is set to several different standards based on vertical scanning lines.

480: 480 vertical scanning lines. There's actually 540, but only 480 get displayed. This is the standard of regular TV and DVD.

720: 720 vertical scanning lines. This is a high-definition format.

1080: 1080 vertical scanning lines. This is the maximum resolution available commercially today.

Refresh type:

Interlaced: Denoted by an "i" after the scanning lines. This refresh type draws even numbered scanning lines in one pass, then draws odds on the next pass. Advantage: uses much lower bandwidth. Disadvantage: picture can show as duller and can create artifacts in fast-moving sequences.

Progressive: Denoted by a "p" after the scanning lines. Scanning lines are drawn one after another. Disadvantage: takes a lot of bandwidth Advantage: Crisper picture, less artifacting.

Refresh Rates: Refresh rates are the number of times the piture on your display is redrawn.

60hz: This is the standard used for most commercial displays. Most film is mastered at 24hz, which requires your display device or source device to perform what's called 3:2 pulldown, converting 24 frames per second to 60 frames per second.

24hz: This is the standard used for most films. Only the more advanced sources can even output at this, and you still need a TV capable of displaying it. However, I can tell you this: a source mastered at 1080p24 displayed on a TV capable of displaying in that format looks un-freaking-believable.

Aspect Ratio: The aspect ratio of a video source is the ratio of the horizontal to vertical. Regular TV is 4:3 aspect ratio. HDTV is 16:9 aspect ratio. Movies use a x:1 format, so a movie that is 16:9 would be listed as 1.78:1. Common movie aspect ratios are 1.85:1, 2.35:1, and 2.85:1. 16:9 was chosen as the widescreen TV standard as a rough compromise between the various aspect ratios that could be used. The difference between the aspect ratio of the source and the aspect ratio of your display is what causes the black bars or letterboxing. Most video purists recommend that you always buy a movie in Original Aspect Ratio, preserving the director's vision.

Optical Discs: An optical disk is a storage medium that is read by laser from a shiny disc. There's four optical disk standards in widespread use today.

Compact Disk: Maximum storage, 650MB. Uses an infrared laser to read data. Typically used for music. Carries approximately 72 minutes of stereo music at 320kbps.

Digital Versatile Disk (DVD): Maximum storage, 4GB (single layer) or 9GB (dual layer). Uses a red laser to read data-shorter bandwidth than infrared means more data on same surface. Most widespread movie medium today. Commercial DVD players can typically only read up to 480p60. Many DVD players can interpolate 480p60 source material to 1080i or 720p. This is not the same as HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray Disc (BD): Maximum storage, 25GB (single layer) or 50GB (dual layer). "Next generation" optical media developed by Sony. Uses a blue laser (again, shorter wavelength) and a shorter focus distance to pack more info onto a disc. Commercially available BD players can read and output material up to 1080p24 and lossless audio formats. NOTE: BD is not DVD. DVD is a trademark of the DVD Forum, and DVD Forum expressly does not support BD. BD players are currently manufactured by Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, and Panasonic. The PlayStation3 contains a fully-functional BD player. I can tell you from personal experience that the PS3 BD player is actually pretty nice, especially for a console-based player.

High-Definition Digital Versatile Disc (HD DVD): Maximum Storage, 15GB (single layer) or 30GB (dual layer.) A 45GB triple layer disc has been proposed, but is only theoretical at this point. (Note: Toshiba has officially announced a 50GB triple layer disc today (1/7/7) at CES. No word on compatibility with G1&G2 products.) Uses the same blue laser as BD, but the same focus distance as DVD, which is why storage capacity is less than BD. It does, however, make production and switchover costs for existing DVD manufacturers lower. Commercially available HD DVD players can read and output material up to 1080p24 and lossless audio formats. The only commercially available HD-DVD players are manufactured by Toshiba (RCA and Microsoft both have players, but they're rebadged Toshiba drives) and HD DVD currently has less studio support than BD. However, HD DVD discs are selling considerably better than BD discs, and up until the PS3 was introduced the players were selling quite a bit better than BD players, possibly because of a major price advantage. The XBox360 has an available HD DVD player addon.

Update: Since this writing, BD has taken a significant software sales lead driven by the PS3.

Total HD Disks: Just announced by Warner Home Video, the Total HD Disk will include both a BD and HD DVD compatible layer. It seems likely that BD-25 and HD-30 will be used. Only Warner will be using these disks at first, and none have been released as yet.

Cabling standards

Video Only

Composite: Little RCA-plugged cable that carries one mixed analog video signal. Please do not use this anymore. ;) Carries resolution up to 480i.

S-Video: Multi-pin cable that carries an analog video signal but separates colors and gives less bleed than composite. Go ahead an use this for your VCR if you still have one. Carries resolution up to 480i.

Component: Three separate video cables that carrry an analogue signal. Has bandwidth sufficient for 1080p, however copy protected DVDs will only display at 480p over this cabling standard and ICT-enabled HD-DVDs and BDs will also only display at 960i. ICT has not yet been implemented for HD-DVD or BD, and there is debate about whether it will.

DVI: Carries a digital video signal up to 1080p from source to display. Will display upscaled DVD output as well as ICT-enabled HD-DVDs and BDs at full resolution supported. Being phased out in favor of HDMI.

Audio Cabling

Analogue: Analogue typically uses RCA plugs to carry one channel of information decoded by your source to your amplifier. While this is generally considered substandard as most applications are stereo only, some high-end sources have 5.1 analogue outs that can be connected to inputs on a receiver for lossless audio.

Optical: Can be either TOSLINK or Coaxial. Can carry a digital audio signal to a receiver. Considered to generally be better than your analogue cabling except as above. Will carry Dolby Digital or DTS signals for 5.1 sound. Will not carry a lossless signal.

Combination A/V

Coaxial: I assume that everyone knows what this is. Please don't hook your cable box directly to your TV with this. If you have a cable-card TV, knock yourself out.

HDMI: Digital signalling cable that can carry both lossless audio and up to 1080p60 video. Can also carry signals back from display to source, allowing some nifty integration tricks with your setup (like shutting down stuff that isn't being used and such.) Does have some issues.

Different types of audio

Stereo: Your basic binaural signal that simulates live music by outputting an offset signal to left and right channels.

Quadrophonic: Basically stereo interpolated to give "echoes". Not widely in use.

5.1: An audio codec ("code/decode") that contains five discrete channels of information for front right, front left, rear right, rear left, center front. There is also a subwoofer channel that can either be muxed into the five channels or separated out to a subwoofer (hence ".1"). Any time you see ".1" it refers to a demuxed subwoofer channel.

6.1: See 5.1, except you add a rear center.

7.1: See 5.1, except you add side channels.

Dolby Digital 5.1: A digital audio standard promulgated by Dolby Sound Labs. Approximately 10 years old.

DTS: A different 5.1 standard. Has a higher bitrate than 5.1 and better channel separation.

Lossless: An audio compression scheme that is lossless can be decompressed into a signal identical to the master. Thanks Vaevictus for the clarification.

Dolby TruHD: A lossless audio standard that is encoded on many HD-DVDs and some Blu-Ray discs. TruHD can be 2.0, 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1.

DTS HD Master Audio: DTS's answer to TruHD, another lossless format.

BoogercountySooner
12/28/2006, 02:27 PM
Wow Froze did you write all that or Copy and Paste?

Beef
12/28/2006, 02:32 PM
Should I buy a plasma, LCD, DLP or a motorcycle?

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 02:32 PM
Wrote it muhself.

Beef
12/28/2006, 02:33 PM
Is the Pron Industry going to go with BD or HD-DVD?

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 02:38 PM
Should I buy a plasma, LCD, DLP or a motorcycle?

Depends on the application and your budget on the TV. On the motorcycle, I cannot say.

Plasma[b]:

Pros:
Typically less expensive than an LCD of similar size.
Better black levels-more detail in shadowy scenes.
Less artifacting than LCDs

Cons:
The "burn in" effect, though burn in on a plasma is no worse now than it is on a CRT. It's really just not an issue.
Glare off the glass screen.
Picture not as bright as an LCD.
Not many plasmas are 1080p native resolution.

[b]LCD
Pros:
Brighter picture than plasma.
No burn-in.
No glare, as the screen is matte.
1080p is widely available in LCD.

Cons:
Pixel death.
Matte screens are easy for kids to push their hands through.
Lots of artifacting, especially on the less-expensive models (Sony XBR3s don't have much, but other brands do.)

DLP

Pros:
Very nice picture, little artifacting.
1080p is widely available.
Less expensive than plasma or LCD.

Cons:
No hang-it-on-the-wall cool factor.
"Rainbow" effect.
Lots of moving parts to break.

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 02:39 PM
Is the Pron Industry going to go with BD or HD-DVD?

It looks like they're going to support both for the short-term. The impact of the porn industry on the demise of Beta is wildly overstated.

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2006, 03:02 PM
can somebody come over and make sure i've got my HD ready tv hooked up correctly?

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 03:07 PM
I can't seem to buy a DVD player that works for more than a few months. Soon, we will be on #3.

Also, I got a Bose not-surround sound system for Christmas and I'm thinking about sending it back and getting the 3-2-1 package because the giver said now she thinks that's what we should do. I know Mike Rich thinks Bose is overpriced, overhyped crap but my family has had good luck with Bose and I think their stuff sounds pretty good so we don't need to revisit that. :D

I would love to get rid of the old receiver, DVD and CD players we have and just have the whole thing be one system instead of mix and match.

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:08 PM
can somebody come over and make sure i've got my HD ready tv hooked up correctly?

There's a one in four chance you don't according to a survey done by one of the retailers.

What cables are you using from what sources?

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2006, 03:10 PM
i have an S cable, and the red/white/yellow cables coming from out of a FIOS digi cable box........i have a flat screen vigio TV that's HD capable.....bunch of ports in the back for the red/white/yellow....and some on the side......i'm using the one on the side (which is probably for a video game)......

problem is, i dont see an S cable port on the back...but there is on the side!

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:13 PM
I can't seem to buy a DVD player that works for more than a few months. Soon, we will be on #3.

Also, I got a Bose not-surround sound system for Christmas and I'm thinking about sending it back and getting the 3-2-1 package because the giver said now she thinks that's what we should do. I know Mike Rich thinks Bose is overpriced, overhyped crap but my family has had good luck with Bose and I think their stuff sounds pretty good so we don't need to revisit that. :D

I would love to get rid of the old receiver, DVD and CD players we have and just have the whole thing be one system instead of mix and match.

The test of value is whether it's worth it to you. If it sounds better to you than a less-expensive system, it's your money.

I'm not a fan of integrated systems, but aesthetically I can see why they're appealing. I haven't heard of any problems with the 3-2-1 package.

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 03:13 PM
Should't you be using component cables to hook up the HD cable receiver to the TV? I'm pretty sure you should be.

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2006, 03:14 PM
oh, maybe i need to call verizon and see if the box is HD capable huh?

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:14 PM
i have an S cable, and the red/white/yellow cables coming from out of a FIOS digi cable box........i have a flat screen vigio TV that's HD capable.....bunch of ports in the back for the red/white/yellow....and some on the side......i'm using the one on the side (which is probably for a video game)......

problem is, i dont see an S cable port on the back...but there is on the side!

It sounds like you have it hooked up with composite video.

Let me ask you something: do you have that red/white/yellow cable hooked up as red: right white: left yellow: video?

Or are they hooked into somethign that say Y, Cb, Cr?

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 03:15 PM
The test of value is whether it's worth it to you. If it sounds better to you than a less-expensive system, it's your money.

I'm not a fan of integrated systems, but aesthetically I can see why they're appealing. I haven't heard of any problems with the 3-2-1 package.

It does....I'm getting tired of the hodge podge approach at this point so a tuner/DVD/CD system with the improved-but-not-surround-sound audio is sounding more and more appealing. Plus, I'm not buying it so that helps too. :)

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:15 PM
oh, maybe i need to call verizon and see if the box is HD capable huh?

That would be a really good start. ;)

Don't use S-Video hookups for an HDTV unless you're using a VCR or something that won't go above 480i anyhow.

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 03:18 PM
That would be a really good start. ;)

Don't use S-Video hookups for an HDTV unless you're using a VCR or something that won't go above 480i anyhow.

Word.

IF you have an HD box, you should also have component cables....the one Froze mentioned as having Y, Cb, Cr on them.

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:21 PM
Word.

IF you have an HD box, you should also have component cables....the one Froze mentioned as having Y, Cb, Cr on them.

Or HDMI, VGA, or DVI. Depending on how good the D/A converter in his TV is, he may get a better picture with one of those.

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 03:22 PM
Or HDMI, VGA, or DVI. Depending on how good the D/A converter in his TV is, he may get a better picture with one of those.

This is where my level of "expertise" ends. :O

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:31 PM
Heh. All three of those standards carry a purely digital signal from the source to the display. If the display has a better Digital-to-analog converter than the source, then you'll get a better picture letting the TV handle the conversion. If the source has a better D/A converter than the TV, you'll get a better picture over component. Either way, it'll be very very minimal.

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2006, 03:32 PM
i'm totally lost

i'll start with a call to verizon this afternoon and go from there

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:34 PM
Sorry, I wasn't trying to lose you. It sounds like your cable box probaby doesn't have a high-definition signal.

Does your TV have ports anywhere that say either VGA, HDMI, DVI, or Y Cr Cb? Does your cable box?

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2006, 03:35 PM
i'll have to look when i get home........please dont delete this thread! :)

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 03:36 PM
I'll try my best not to post any cheesecake pics in the meantime.

However, be advised that I'm flying to Arizona tonight, so I may not be around to help the next few days.

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 05:16 PM
What kind of shelving do you folks use for the various components you might have (cable box, dvd player, tuner, etc)?

Penguin
12/28/2006, 05:18 PM
I'm looking at getting a new receiver.

I currently have a 5.1 dolby digital receiver. I see now that there are 7.1 receivers available.

Where the hell do the 6th and 7th speakers go?

Beef
12/28/2006, 05:33 PM
What kind of shelving do you folks use for the various components you might have (cable box, dvd player, tuner, etc)?
Is there something wrong with your floor? Your **** to good to touch the ground?

Okieflyer
12/28/2006, 05:34 PM
Good golly! I leave for just a couple of hours and you fill up a page.

This is a good idea Mike Rich!

I'm down to deciding between the Sony XBR2 or saving some bucks and getting the A2000.

Mjcpr
12/28/2006, 05:36 PM
Is there something wrong with your floor? Your **** to good to touch the ground?

Milk crates don't grow on trees you hillbilly!

slickdawg
12/28/2006, 06:15 PM
So is this where I post the fact that Slickdaughter put Dora stickers on my
Plasma screen today?

Okieflyer
12/28/2006, 06:18 PM
So is this where I post the fact that Slickdaughter put Dora stickers on my
Plasma screen today?

Did she put one over your avatar too? ;)

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 06:20 PM
I'm looking at getting a new receiver.

I currently have a 5.1 dolby digital receiver. I see now that there are 7.1 receivers available.

Where the hell do the 6th and 7th speakers go?

Directly to the right and left of you.

Penguin
12/28/2006, 06:28 PM
Directly to the right and left of you.

Ah. Thanks.


I guess it's just a matter of time before we have a speaker directly above and directly below you.

slickdawg
12/28/2006, 06:29 PM
Did she put one over your avatar too? ;)


Yep.


She is SOOOOOOO cute running up to me and saying "AW MAN! SWIPER NO SWIPING!!"

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 06:59 PM
What kind of shelving do you folks use for the various components you might have (cable box, dvd player, tuner, etc)?

Ive got a brushed steel and glass thing I got at Best Buy that I'm not really happy with. I'll post a picture of my setup one of these days. Damn thing takes up way too much space.

I wanted to build shelving under the TV to hold everything, but the weight and size of the receiver make that problematic without more bracing than I'm willing to build.

Newbomb Turk
12/28/2006, 08:30 PM
I am in the market for a 40 or 42 inch HDTV. The wife wants a slim dislpay, which means lcd flat-panel or plasma.

I'm trying to decide if I should go for a 1080p set (lcd) or if 720p (lcd or plasma).

I understand that right now, the only 1080p you can really watch is from a gaming system or Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I'm mainly going to be watching broadcast TV.

Will I benefit from buying a full 1080p? Does anybody see 1080p broadcasts in the not so distant future?

any input would be appreciated.

mrowl
12/28/2006, 08:33 PM
i have an S cable, and the red/white/yellow cables coming from out of a FIOS digi cable box........i have a flat screen vigio TV that's HD capable.....bunch of ports in the back for the red/white/yellow....and some on the side......i'm using the one on the side (which is probably for a video game)......

problem is, i dont see an S cable port on the back...but there is on the side!

I think all of them are HD, but it has to be enabled... is it the motorola?

and it should have the HDMI port on it, if it (the fios box) is HD. Buy an HDMI cable and you are good to go.

mrowl
12/28/2006, 08:36 PM
Will I benefit from buying a full 1080p? Does anybody see 1080p broadcasts in the not so distant future?

any input would be appreciated.

not from the broadcast networks. They have invested tens of millions into the trucks, cameras, studios, equipment, etc...

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 08:55 PM
I am in the market for a 40 or 42 inch HDTV. The wife wants a slim dislpay, which means lcd flat-panel or plasma.

I'm trying to decide if I should go for a 1080p set (lcd) or if 720p (lcd or plasma).

I understand that right now, the only 1080p you can really watch is from a gaming system or Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I'm mainly going to be watching broadcast TV.

Will I benefit from buying a full 1080p? Does anybody see 1080p broadcasts in the not so distant future?

any input would be appreciated.

I don't know that you'll see a great deal of difference either way. A 1080p TV will likely line-double a 1080i broadcast and look pretty nice. The visible difference between 1080i and 1080p is supposedly not very noticeable, though.

No, I don't anticipate 1080p broadcast anytime soon, mainly because it doubles the bandwidth needed.

mrowl
12/28/2006, 09:51 PM
maybe fits in...

Should I wait to buy an AVCHD camcorder until there is an operating system, and editing software (final cut, premiere) that supports it?

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 09:53 PM
I'm not so sure that AVC is going to be the codec going forward that you're going to want to use. Otherwise, I don't know a thing about camcorders.

Okieflyer
12/28/2006, 10:08 PM
http://www2.butterflyphoto.com/assets/product/images250/1C31F791686649E6B68DFD5AB738A1BA.jpg
Sony - KDS-60A2000 60" SXRD Rear Projection Television

OK I made the plunge. Thanks guys for the advice. I should get it in a week or so.

Now I'm going to have to retire my 1990 31" Magnavox and join the modern era of TVs.:D

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 10:13 PM
Rock on, man. Have fun with your new purchase.

Newbomb Turk
12/29/2006, 07:41 AM
http://www2.butterflyphoto.com/assets/product/images250/1C31F791686649E6B68DFD5AB738A1BA.jpg
Sony - KDS-60A2000 60" SXRD Rear Projection Television

OK I made the plunge. Thanks guys for the advice. I should get it in a week or so.

Now I'm going to have to retire my 1990 31" Magnavox and join the modern era of TVs.:D

congratulations, but damn you! Now you put the pressure on me to make a purchase.

Newbomb Turk
12/29/2006, 07:55 AM
Links to some other threads that might be helpful:

HDTV Thread (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78517)

Big TV Thread (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75954)

HDTV Antenna Thread (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74975)

85Sooner's Cable Diagram Thread (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85966)

DLP Thread (ttp://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86355)

85Sooner - If you don't want that thread linked, just let me know and I'll remove it.

Okieflyer
12/29/2006, 07:56 AM
congratulations, but damn you! Now you put the pressure on me to make a purchase.

Git'er done!:texan:

85Sooner
12/29/2006, 08:42 PM
I don't know that you'll see a great deal of difference either way. A 1080p TV will likely line-double a 1080i broadcast and look pretty nice. The visible difference between 1080i and 1080p is supposedly not very noticeable, though.

No, I don't anticipate 1080p broadcast anytime soon, mainly because it doubles the bandwidth needed.

Actually, I think you will find that 720p vs 1080p will depend on the brand and model number. at the 40-42" size a sony xbr will be noticably different than the 720p model. Keep in mind that we are only talking about LCD flat panel televisions Generally the 1080p models should show less pixelation and are a bit brighter with better side angle viewing.

Probably won't see any 1080p broadcast for awhile but that really doesn't matter. The scenario described above is based on dvd, and 1080i and 720 p content.

Okieflyer
12/29/2006, 08:56 PM
What do you guys feel is going to be the standard for dvd? Does Blu-Ray have a "leg up" on hd dvd?

That's the other thing that needs to come down in price. Also does the PS3 play Blu-Ray movies? Will XBox 360 play HD movies?

OUDoc
12/29/2006, 09:40 PM
What do you guys feel is going to be the standard for dvd? Does Blu-Ray have a "leg up" on hd dvd?

That's the other thing that needs to come down in price. Also does the PS3 play Blu-Ray movies? Will XBox 360 play HD movies?
All I can answer is that the PS3 does play Blu-Ray movies.

BoogercountySooner
12/31/2006, 10:01 PM
Heres my setup. A sony 50" SXRD with a Harman Kardon 7.1 channel entertainment system set up in our custom made built in Hickory cabinets.

We love it.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/arkiejeff/IMG_1693.jpg

Getem
12/31/2006, 10:42 PM
Heres my setup. A sony 50" SXRD with a Harman Kardon 7.1 channel entertainment system set up in our custom made built in Hickory cabinets.

We love it.


Very nice. But, the subwoofer looks a tad out of place. And by "a tad out of place" I mean, what the hell were you thinking? :P

Okieflyer
12/31/2006, 10:54 PM
Yes super nice! But ok I agree, do something with that subwoofer! ;)

BoogercountySooner
1/1/2007, 12:51 PM
I got lots of furniture in there now the pic was taken right before we moved in.

BeetDigger
1/2/2007, 11:10 AM
i'll have to look when i get home........please dont delete this thread! :)



Did you ever get this solved? I think I can help you out if you haven't figured it out already. I have FiOS, both an HD box and a non-HD box (no, they are NOT all HD ready) and I just faced this situation when I switched my HD box from the Sony to the new plasma in the bedroom. Don't really need the HD on the Sony, although it is an HD tv, it is only 32" and at that small of a set, HD is sort of a waste.

BudSooner
1/3/2007, 09:14 AM
Mike, isn't there an issue in regards to using DVI when it comes to copyright protection when viewing certain programming? I seem to remember that happening from time to time and as best I can remember, if you changed the setting from 1080I to 720P that it went away.
Or am I confused? Is this soley a satellite issue or does it pertain to cable HD as well?

One last question, in regards to DLP...the moving parts....is this due to the "mirrors" that Sony uses??? :confused:

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 12:58 PM
What do you guys feel is going to be the standard for dvd? Does Blu-Ray have a "leg up" on hd dvd?

That's the other thing that needs to come down in price. Also does the PS3 play Blu-Ray movies? Will XBox 360 play HD movies?

HD-DVDs are outselling Blu-Ray movies and until the release of the PS3 had a massive advantage in sold players.

The 360 will not play HD-DVD out of the box, but can with a $200 add-on drive which can be easily hacked into an HD-DVD drive for your computer.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 12:59 PM
Mike, isn't there an issue in regards to using DVI when it comes to copyright protection when viewing certain programming? I seem to remember that happening from time to time and as best I can remember, if you changed the setting from 1080I to 720P that it went away.
Or am I confused? Is this soley a satellite issue or does it pertain to cable HD as well?

One last question, in regards to DLP...the moving parts....is this due to the "mirrors" that Sony uses??? :confused:

1. Not that I'm aware of, but I've never had a TV with DVI inputs.

2. HP, not Sony, and that's what I've heard.

NormanPride
1/3/2007, 01:36 PM
Mike - that mirrors girl is really ticking me off with the way she pronounces it "meers". Can you kill her? TIA.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 01:38 PM
Mike - that mirrors girl is really ticking me off with the way she pronounces it "meers". Can you kill her? TIA.

I will do what I can.

MamaMia
1/3/2007, 01:49 PM
All that information is too overwhelming for me. I just have a question.

I have a small bedroom in my home with no TV set. I'm going to have to hang a television in the corner to save space. The corner I will have to use is fairly far away from the chair and the bed so I will have to get a nice sized TV, but not real big. I would also like a DVD player in that room. I don't want a plasma. I did see this set that is in my budget. Are the HDTVs cable friendly, and if so, will the cable company have to install a cable box? I have Suddenlink. Do any of these types of sets come with a built in DVD player, or will I have to buy that separate as well?

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 02:05 PM
1. Why not a plasma? What size are you looking at, by the way? I mean, if you're under 42" a plasma probably isn't the right choice anyhow, but there is a lot of FUD out there about plasmas that just isn't true. If you're looking in the 20" range, you can get an LCD HD-compatible TV for a pretty reasonable price.

2. I don't know if you'll need a cable box. Some HDTVs come with cable card slots, and Suddenlink may be able to provide you a card so you don't need a box.

3. I've never seen a flat-panel TV with a built-in DVD player. I'm not a fan of ever integrating two separate components into one, anyhow.

A good compromise solution on the cable box and DVD player might be to build a shelf under the TV to hold them.

Boomer.....
1/3/2007, 02:32 PM
There are many flat panal TV's with built in DVD players. Depending on the size and brand you want determines how much you want to spend.

Here are some flat panel tvs and some have built in dvd players:
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ECPLASMA/shop/showcaseb/default~showcaseb~tvmonitor~SubShowcase~flatpanel. asp
There is even a 27" LCD with DVD player for $449.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 02:34 PM
Well, there you go. Like I said, I'd never seen one, but I was never looking for one either. :D

MamaMia
1/3/2007, 02:50 PM
1. Why not a plasma? What size are you looking at, by the way? I mean, if you're under 42" a plasma probably isn't the right choice anyhow, but there is a lot of FUD out there about plasmas that just isn't true. If you're looking in the 20" range, you can get an LCD HD-compatible TV for a pretty reasonable price.

2. I don't know if you'll need a cable box. Some HDTVs come with cable card slots, and Suddenlink may be able to provide you a card so you don't need a box.

3. I've never seen a flat-panel TV with a built-in DVD player. I'm not a fan of ever integrating two separate components into one, anyhow.

A good compromise solution on the cable box and DVD player might be to build a shelf under the TV to hold them.I'll try to get a set that has a card place. The Suddenlink technicians hang out at the Dairy Queen. I may stop buy for a treat and ask one of them about the card. I know this goes against the world as it is, but for me anyway, the less machinery and electronics in my home, the better. I only want as much of that as I need to comfortably function. I wont even have an ice maker on my fridge. :P

We looked at a mid sized plasma next to this LC HD television and I remember that we just liked the picture better. I cant remember how many inches it was but it wasn't square. The picture was clearer and the colors seemed more vivid. Aren't the plasmas alot more expensive as well to buy and to have fixed?

soonernation
1/3/2007, 02:56 PM
1. Why not a plasma? What size are you looking at, by the way? I mean, if you're under 42" a plasma probably isn't the right choice anyhow, but there is a lot of FUD out there about plasmas that just isn't true. If you're looking in the 20" range, you can get an LCD HD-compatible TV for a pretty reasonable price.

2. I don't know if you'll need a cable box. Some HDTVs come with cable card slots, and Suddenlink may be able to provide you a card so you don't need a box.

3. I've never seen a flat-panel TV with a built-in DVD player. I'm not a fan of ever integrating two separate components into one, anyhow.

A good compromise solution on the cable box and DVD player might be to build a shelf under the TV to hold them.


The only thing I have to add to this is that I saw a flat panal TV today at 2 different locations (Sams and Best Buy) with built in DVD players.

edit: they were both 32".

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 02:57 PM
Depends on which plasma and which LCD with which feature set on the price. As for repair-neither one of them is something you'd call easy to repair. www.panasonic.com has a great deal of information about the differences between plasma and LCD. They're one of the few manufacturers who make both anymore.

LCDs will tend to look better on showroom floors because they have brighter pictures. Brighter does not always equal better, though.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
1/3/2007, 03:27 PM
Why do I have to have 2 remotes? Why can't I just have a universal one? TIA.

IB4OU2
1/3/2007, 03:53 PM
I really like my new LCD HDTV and ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, NFLHD and all the VOOM channels. I really could'nt tell much difference between the LCD vs plasma... but mines only a 37 inch.

BeetDigger
1/3/2007, 05:32 PM
Why do I have to have 2 remotes? Why can't I just have a universal one? TIA.


Each device has a remote. Cable companies usually provide universal remotes that can control multiple devices. Or, you can purchase one Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00067R5Y6/ref=nosim/101081219797-20) that is nicer. This is about as inexpensive as I have seen the nice universal remotes. There are one's that cost less but have less too. Programming is fairly straight forward.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 05:39 PM
This (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=9933) is the remote I use. $250 is a little spendy, but the features on it are nice. It controls everything except the dang PS3, which Sony decided to make Bluetooth compatible instead of IR.

Greatest thing about it is just plugging it into the computer and telling the remote what I have instead of searching for codes.

BeetDigger
1/3/2007, 07:46 PM
This (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=9933) is the remote I use. $250 is a little spendy, but the features on it are nice. It controls everything except the dang PS3, which Sony decided to make Bluetooth compatible instead of IR.

Greatest thing about it is just plugging it into the computer and telling the remote what I have instead of searching for codes.


That computer feature would be really nice. The code looking upping is a pain in the arse. I think that I saw that one for a really good price recently. One of the bargain hunter sites found it for a really good price. Of course, as soon as they list something it is only a matter of an hour or two before things are sold out.

Vaevictis
1/3/2007, 11:28 PM
Lossless: An audio compression scheme that is lossless can be decompressed into a signal indistinguishable from the master.

I am nitpicking here, but as a CS/EE guy, this is really important to me:

Lossless compression means that the decompressed signal is not just indistinguishable from the original signal, it is in fact identical.

This is important because, well, let's take an example: mp3. A lot of the compression is achieved by stripping out frequencies and patterns that the normal human ear can't hear. Thusly, the decompressed signal is indistinguishable to the majority of people, but it is not truly identical.

But to some people, it is distinguishable from the master. They're rare, but they do occur.

Lossless is superior to lossy compression in that it has perfect fidelity to the original, but a good lossy compression can provide a good tradeoff between lost data and what you really need -- just like mp3 does for the vast majority of people.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:31 PM
I am nitpicking here, but as a CS/EE guy, this is really important to me:

Lossless compression means that the decompressed signal is not just indistinguishable from the original signal, it is in fact identical.

This is important because, well, let's take an example: mp3. A lot of the compression is achieved by stripping out frequencies and patterns that the normal human ear can't hear. Thusly, the decompressed signal is indistinguishable to the majority of people, but it is not truly identical.

But to some people, it is distinguishable from the master. They're rare, but they do occur.

Lossless is superior to lossy compression in that it has perfect fidelity to the original, but a good lossy compression can provide a good tradeoff between lost data and what you really need -- just like mp3 does for the vast majority of people.

That's a good distinction to make.

By "indistinguishable" I meant "identical in side-by-side comparison using a sonic frequency analyzer" but the way you put that is much more clear. Thanks. I'll edit the original to reflect the more accurate description.

Vaevictis
1/3/2007, 11:48 PM
Also, since someone linked the antenna thread, and Norm was talking about amplifying the signal, I'll let you guys know something you'd learn in an electrical engineering class:

First rule: You want to get as much unpowered gain from the antenna as you possibly can. Powered gain adds noise (reducing signal to noise, here after referred to as SNR), a better antenna does not.

Second rule: When you're receiving ANY signal, if you're going to put in powered amplification, you want the amplifier to be as close to the antenna as is possible; ie, if you can hook it directly to the output of the antenna without any intervening cable, that is ideal. You also want as few "stages" as possible.

The short of it is that each successive stage of amplification (this includes the unpowered antenna AND the path loss along any cabling!) adds noise and has a *tremendously* reduced ability to increase your SNR compared to the previous stage.

Mathematically, the formula looks something like this:

Ftotal = F1 + (F2-1)/G1 + (F3-1)/G1G2 + (F4-1)/G1G2G3 + ...

Where Fn is the noise figure (defined as SNR of input divided by SNR of output) of stage n. Gn is the gain of stage n. If you're mathematically inclined, you can see that each successive stage has hugely diminishing returns -- and as I mentioned, each stage actually adds some noise, dependant on the quality of the amplifier/cabling/etc.

Third rule: You want as little cabling as possible. Cabling is necessary to carry the signal, but it also does cause some signal degradation.

Frozen Sooner
1/3/2007, 11:57 PM
There's going to be some rather big announcements at CES coming up real quick here.

A couple things have already been announced, the biggest being that LG has developed a dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player and apparently has the licensing worked out, something many insiders thought was never going to happen.

BeetDigger
1/4/2007, 01:11 AM
Also, since someone linked the antenna thread, and Norm was talking about amplifying the signal, I'll let you guys know something you'd learn in an electrical engineering class:

First rule: You want to get as much unpowered gain from the antenna as you possibly can. Powered gain adds noise (reducing signal to noise, here after referred to as SNR), a better antenna does not.

Second rule: When you're receiving ANY signal, if you're going to put in powered amplification, you want the amplifier to be as close to the antenna as is possible; ie, if you can hook it directly to the output of the antenna without any intervening cable, that is ideal. You also want as few "stages" as possible.

The short of it is that each successive stage of amplification (this includes the unpowered antenna AND the path loss along any cabling!) adds noise and has a *tremendously* reduced ability to increase your SNR compared to the previous stage.

Mathematically, the formula looks something like this:

Ftotal = F1 + (F2-1)/G1 + (F3-1)/G1G2 + (F4-1)/G1G2G3 + ...

Where Fn is the noise figure (defined as SNR of input divided by SNR of output) of stage n. Gn is the gain of stage n. If you're mathematically inclined, you can see that each successive stage has hugely diminishing returns -- and as I mentioned, each stage actually adds some noise, dependant on the quality of the amplifier/cabling/etc.

Third rule: You want as little cabling as possible. Cabling is necessary to carry the signal, but it also does cause some signal degradation.


And statements like this is why we always made fun of EE majors. :texan:

Frozen Sooner
1/4/2007, 01:15 AM
Another huge CES announcement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/technology/04video.html?_r=1&ref=technology&oref=slogin

Warner Studios is going to produce hybrid BD/HD DVD discs that will play on either player. VERY smart move.

Okieflyer
1/5/2007, 07:43 AM
Another huge CES announcement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/technology/04video.html?_r=1&ref=technology&oref=slogin

Warner Studios is going to produce hybrid BD/HD DVD discs that will play on either player. VERY smart move.

Finally someone is getting smart.

Okieflyer
1/5/2007, 07:47 AM
Also, since someone linked the antenna thread, and Norm was talking about amplifying the signal, I'll let you guys know something you'd learn in an electrical engineering class:

First rule: You want to get as much unpowered gain from the antenna as you possibly can. Powered gain adds noise (reducing signal to noise, here after referred to as SNR), a better antenna does not.

Second rule: When you're receiving ANY signal, if you're going to put in powered amplification, you want the amplifier to be as close to the antenna as is possible; ie, if you can hook it directly to the output of the antenna without any intervening cable, that is ideal. You also want as few "stages" as possible.

The short of it is that each successive stage of amplification (this includes the unpowered antenna AND the path loss along any cabling!) adds noise and has a *tremendously* reduced ability to increase your SNR compared to the previous stage.

Mathematically, the formula looks something like this:

Ftotal = F1 + (F2-1)/G1 + (F3-1)/G1G2 + (F4-1)/G1G2G3 + ...

Where Fn is the noise figure (defined as SNR of input divided by SNR of output) of stage n. Gn is the gain of stage n. If you're mathematically inclined, you can see that each successive stage has hugely diminishing returns -- and as I mentioned, each stage actually adds some noise, dependant on the quality of the amplifier/cabling/etc.

Third rule: You want as little cabling as possible. Cabling is necessary to carry the signal, but it also does cause some signal degradation.

OK, ok, I know all this, but what would be typical numbers to look for when shopping? How much should I worry about spending and everything else? What is the best for the money?

Great post though.;)

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 09:49 AM
I can't seem to buy a DVD player that works for more than a few months. Soon, we will be on #3.

Also, I got a Bose not-surround sound system for Christmas and I'm thinking about sending it back and getting the 3-2-1 package because the giver said now she thinks that's what we should do. I know Mike Rich thinks Bose is overpriced, overhyped crap but my family has had good luck with Bose and I think their stuff sounds pretty good so we don't need to revisit that. :D

I would love to get rid of the old receiver, DVD and CD players we have and just have the whole thing be one system instead of mix and match.

So I can't seem to get it hooked up correctly. :mad:

All I have is the Bose "Media Center", a cable box/HD-DVR and a TV. I can't seem to get the sound from the TV to run through the Bose system.

Cable goes to the DVR which goes (via component cables plus audio) to the TV, Media Center goes to the TV (via component cablesplus audio) to the TV. Somehow I'm thinking the cable box will need to go through the Media Center in order to get TV audio through the new system but **** if I know how to do it.

Howzit
1/5/2007, 11:15 AM
Somehow I'm thinking the cable box will need to go through the Media Center in order to get TV audio through the new system but **** if I know how to do it.

With cables.

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 11:40 AM
Is there anything on the Media Center that says "AUX" or "VID" or something like that?

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 11:43 AM
Yeah, several....there's an AUX a CAB/SAT and a TV, each with two audio jacks and one video. And component jacks which is how it's connected to the TV. Then the TV audio out runs to the tv audio in jacks. There's also some kind of digital coax and some other kind of funky audio connector for which I have no cables.

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 11:48 AM
It looks pretty close to this....

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/6727/6727839_ba.jpg

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 11:54 AM
OK, take a TOSLINK audio cable and plug it in to that square input next to the Expansion Network dealio. Then plug the other end into your cable box.

You may have to turn digital audio on with the cable box. Shouldn't have to, though.

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 11:58 AM
I was afraid I'd have to buy some other kind of cable. :D

So what's the reason the TV audio isn't being played through the Bose system? I thought the connection from the Bose unit to the TV Audio out was supposed to take care of that? In the setup, it talked like you could use one of the three options, the regular audio cables, that optical thing and there some kind of digital coax (that jack isn't in that pic).

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 12:01 PM
Well, you should be able to do that as well. However, unless you either use the TOSLINK or coax, you're not going to get 5.1 sound out of your TV.

Go to your TV menu and make sure that the audio out is turned on.

BeetDigger
1/5/2007, 12:10 PM
Optical Audio cables can be purchased at Sam's Club for about $10. No, they are not Monster, but they are certainly good enough.

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 12:20 PM
Buying Monster Cables for digital cables is a waste of money to begin with. It's a digital signal-either it gets there or it doesn't. Over that short a run, signal degradation on a digital signal is nil.

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 12:21 PM
Well, you should be able to do that as well. However, unless you either use the TOSLINK or coax, you're not going to get 5.1 sound out of your TV.

Go to your TV menu and make sure that the audio out is turned on.

Does 5.1 matter without true surround sound? This setup has only two front speakers and a bass/deep sound module.

Hmm....I'm not sure I even have this option. I can turn the TV speakers off OR I can choose Fixed or Variable with Variable meaning the audio is controlled by another source (presumably the receiver) but that didn't seem to change anything.

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 12:22 PM
Use Fixed sound.

And no, 5.1 doesn't matter if you don't have a 5.1 setup.

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 01:38 PM
So, in summary, I need to try what differently? :confused:

I'm pretty sure I set the TV audio to Fixed last night with no luck.

When I had it hooked up initially and had the cable TV on, the sound was only static. The sound worked as it should when viewing a DVD. One one of the other video inputs that I cycle through to get back to the TV or DVD, there is nothing but static....I was THINKING that might've been what I was hearing through the speaker.

I don't know....I'm thinking I might need to just start all over again. :mad:

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 01:42 PM
Are you sure that the audio cables from the receiver to the TV are plugged in to an output jack on the TV as opposed to an input jack? That could cause the symptoms you're describing.

Either way, though, I'd go directly from the cable box to the receiver on the audio. You only have one wiring run to screw up on that one, plus it uses fewer cables.

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 01:44 PM
In other words, here's how I'd hook it up, assuming you're married to using analog cables:

Wall-->Coaxial-->Cable Box
Cable Box-->Component Video-->TV
Cable Box-->RCA Audio-->Receiver

However, this setup won't allow you to use the speakers on your TV. I never do, so that's not an issue for me.

Mjcpr
1/5/2007, 01:55 PM
I'm pretty sure I've tried that, but I'll give it another whirl sometime this weekend and see what happens.

Thanks for the help.

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 02:01 PM
I do what I can. If you want, PM me for my phone number and I'll try to walk you through it over the tin-can-and-string.

Vaevictis
1/5/2007, 04:10 PM
OK, ok, I know all this, but what would be typical numbers to look for when shopping?

Heh. I'm not an antenna expert, but a lot of what I've seen is usually 3-50dB. Your gain is actually going to be 10^(x/10) where x is the "dB" so 3dB would be a gain of about two, turning an input signal of 1V to 2V.

Keep in mind, however, that over the air signals are in the microvolt range (1 millionth of a volt).

What you need is going to be dependant on where you are compared to the tower, how much power the tower is broadcasting at, and what kind of obstructions (buildings, trees, hills, etc) are between you and the tower.


How much should I worry about spending and everything else?

Try this:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

It should give you an idea of what kind of antenna you need to pick up any given channel in your area. Then go look up what the antenna you need for any given channel is, and decide whether you want to pay that much.

As far as brand recommendations go, I have none to give. Sorry. I know the maths and the physics, but I'm a lazy SOB and I'd rather get from my dish or cable provider. ;)

Also, do not buy a much stronger antenna than you need. If you amp up the gain too much, you can sometimes run across stuff like adjecent channel interference -- when one channel is close to another, and your signal filters don't have a sharp enough transition to separate them -- and other nastiness. You ideally want just slightly above the minimum gain necessary to register with your system.

Newbomb Turk
1/5/2007, 05:02 PM
Heh. I'm not an antenna expert, but a lot of what I've seen is usually 3-50dB. Your gain is actually going to be 10^(x/10) where x is the "dB" so 3dB would be a gain of about two, turning an input signal of 1V to 2V.

Keep in mind, however, that over the air signals are in the microvolt range (1 millionth of a volt).

What you need is going to be dependant on where you are compared to the tower, how much power the tower is broadcasting at, and what kind of obstructions (buildings, trees, hills, etc) are between you and the tower.


Okieflyer is gonna know that too. He knows him some volts, dBs and stuff. :D

Vaevictis
1/5/2007, 05:09 PM
Okieflyer is gonna know that too. He knows him some volts, dBs and stuff. :D

Well hell, I don't know what he knows and doesn't know :D

Newbomb Turk
1/5/2007, 05:22 PM
Well hell, I don't know what he knows and doesn't know :D

He's in the electronics field. He just doesn't know what type of antenna to get for over the air HDTV reception. We have looked at the antennaweb site some. He still has a big antenna in his attic that he is going to try when his new big HDTV arrives.

85Sooner
1/5/2007, 10:50 PM
He's in the electronics field. He just doesn't know what type of antenna to get for over the air HDTV reception. We have looked at the antennaweb site some. He still has a big antenna in his attic that he is going to try when his new big HDTV arrives.


Wineguard Antenas are the best FYI

85Sooner
1/5/2007, 10:55 PM
There's going to be some rather big announcements at CES coming up real quick here.

A couple things have already been announced, the biggest being that LG has developed a dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player and apparently has the licensing worked out, something many insiders thought was never going to happen.


Yup, for `1500.00 or so....... have fun

Frozen Sooner
1/5/2007, 10:59 PM
Yup, for `1500.00 or so....... have fun

$1100, actually, according to LG. Just call 'em up. While that's spendy, it's less than the Pioneer Elite BD player.

Okieflyer
1/5/2007, 11:31 PM
Well hell, I don't know what he knows and doesn't know :D

Don't worry about that, heck I just appreciate the input. :D I'm trying my best to get this thing set up before my set arrives.:O


Wineguard Antenas are the best FYI

Thanks 85Sooner I'll start looking there!:)

Vaevictis
1/6/2007, 04:32 AM
$1100, actually, according to LG. Just call 'em up. While that's spendy, it's less than the Pioneer Elite BD player.

Heh, also known as "wait 2-3 years, and pay $120 for the same functionality."

Frozen Sooner
1/6/2007, 12:49 PM
Yeah, true. I don't know that the price drop in three years will be quite that dramatic, but they should be under $300 by then at least.

Vaevictis
1/6/2007, 03:04 PM
Yeah, true. I don't know that the price drop in three years will be quite that dramatic, but they should be under $300 by then at least.

Heh, I was exaggerating a little bit. Just pointing out that that's one of those types of electronics that has price reductions along an expontential curve. You'd basically be ****ing away your money to buy it now.

I purchased a no-name DVD recorder for like $350 a couple years ago; I recently bought an RCA one with an HDMI output + HDMI cable for about $99 at Walmart. (Great deal by the way, if you're in the market for one -- it was still on sale as of yesterday!). I told my wife we should wait on the first one, but she was having none of it ;)

Mjcpr
1/6/2007, 06:44 PM
My TV has an HDMI jack and I think my cable box does (a Motorola, HD DVR through Cox). Is that activated on the cable box....anyone know? And if it is, I should probably be using that rather than the component cables, eh?

:)

Frozen Sooner
1/6/2007, 06:46 PM
Well, 85 is going to tell you that the HDMI jack on your Cable Box is going to signal the black helicopters to come to your house. Truly, on a cable broadcast, the only advantage HDMI has over component is it carries a digital audio stream. Picture-wise, it won't make a big difference at all.

Frozen Sooner
1/6/2007, 06:48 PM
Heh, I was exaggerating a little bit. Just pointing out that that's one of those types of electronics that has price reductions along an expontential curve. You'd basically be ****ing away your money to buy it now.

I purchased a no-name DVD recorder for like $350 a couple years ago; I recently bought an RCA one with an HDMI output + HDMI cable for about $99 at Walmart. (Great deal by the way, if you're in the market for one -- it was still on sale as of yesterday!). I told my wife we should wait on the first one, but she was having none of it ;)

Nah, I'm waiting to either buy a BD or HD DVD recorder. Of course, by that time holographic disks will be available. Recording's never really been my thing, though. I'm pretty happy with DVR.

Mjcpr
1/6/2007, 06:49 PM
Thanks for the info.....what's the big deal with HDMI then? I thought it was supposed to produce a superior picture and whatnot?

Frozen Sooner
1/6/2007, 06:53 PM
There's some stuff on HDMI in the first post, but the upshot of HDMI is this:

It's High-Definition Copyright Protection (HDCP) compliant. Which means that content providers that are concerned about their products getting copied want products to use it.

On a DVD player with upconverting capabilities, an HDMI (or DVI or VGA) cable is needed to carry the upconverted signal.

On an HD DVD or BD player, if the ICT flag is ever activated on disks the HDMI cable will be needed to carry 720p/1080i/1080p signals. Without, the player will limit playback to 960i. ICT is not activated on any disk that I'm aware of, though Warner is probably going to start doing it soon.

HDMI allows advanced audio streams that optical does not, such as DD+, Dolby TruHD, and uncompressed LPCM.

Both HDMI and Component have adequate bandwidth to carry up to a 1080p signal as long as the source will output it and the receiver will accept it.

Cable Boxes are not HDCP-compliant (they don't have to be) so will output a 1080i or 720p signal just fine over component cables.

Newbomb Turk
1/6/2007, 07:45 PM
There's some stuff on HDMI in the first post

:les: READ THE WHOLE THREAD PAT!




;)

Newbomb Turk
1/6/2007, 07:47 PM
Seriously - Mike, 85, Vaevictis and everybody else that contributed something worthwhile to this thread, thanks for the info!

Frozen Sooner
1/6/2007, 08:27 PM
Seriously - Mike, 85, Vaevictis and everybody else that contributed something worthwhile to this thread, thanks for the info!

Happy to help. Like I've said before, I have selfish motivations. The more HD consumers are out there, the more HD content becomes available and the cheaper HD stuff gets.

Plus, I just HATE it when people spread FUD about tech stuff.

Newbomb Turk
1/6/2007, 09:15 PM
Happy to help. Like I've said before, I have selfish motivations. The more HD consumers are out there, the more HD content becomes available and the cheaper HD stuff gets.

Plus, I just HATE it when people spread FUD about tech stuff.

Mike - you're ok for a green-shirt-wearing-to-an-OU-gathering guy. ;)

Vaevictis
1/8/2007, 12:29 AM
Thanks for the info.....what's the big deal with HDMI then? I thought it was supposed to produce a superior picture and whatnot?

In addition to what Mike's already said, HDMI also enables an end-to-end digital transmission of content. This is important because every time you do an A/D or D/A conversion, you're degrading the signal by adding quantization noise. Using a digital transmission cable, you eliminate one D/A stage at the source (ie, DVD) and one A/D stage at the display (ie, the HDTV which often -- if not always? -- digital internally).

Note that depending on the quality of the D/A and A/D converters at either end, this may or may not make a difference to the viewer. Eventually, you can expect that the manufacturers will want to toss the analog channels altogether -- the D/A-A/D converters cost money. The content providers want this too, as the HDMI cable can pass copyright flags between devices which will cause devices that honor them to prevent you from copying the signal and/or degrade it before they let you do it.

Speaking of which, the content industry is lobbying Congress/FCC to make it illegal for manufacturers to disregard the copyright flag. This not only costs you money -- because it costs money to develop the hardware and software to honor it -- but it may also prevent you from exercising your fair use rights under copyright. If you care about this, the time to write your Congress-people is now.

Frozen Sooner
1/8/2007, 12:49 AM
Edited the first post to reflect Toshiba's CES 2007 announcements today;

50GB triple layer HD DVD discs have been greenlit for production.
Onkyo will ship an HD DVD player this year, as will several cheapo Asian brands (the only one I'd heard of was Lite-On.)

Okieflyer
1/8/2007, 07:52 AM
Speaking of which, the content industry is lobbying Congress/FCC to make it illegal for manufacturers to disregard the copyright flag. This not only costs you money -- because it costs money to develop the hardware and software to honor it -- but it may also prevent you from exercising your fair use rights under copyright. If you care about this, the time to write your Congress-people is now.

This is something I need to get more info on. I guess I need to get my "thinking hat" on and start studying.:confused:

Mjcpr
1/8/2007, 08:55 AM
It's working.....for whatever reason, it worked when we turned off the TV speaker and set it to Fixed or Variable (I forget which, but they both work....one is a little louder than the other). The volume was really low so maybe I just couldn't hear it before, I dunno.

There was a place in the settings that allowed me to bump up the volume for the TV so it isn't blaring when I switch over to DVD so I did that. That was a cool feature; you can increase or decrease the volume of the different input components to avoid the blare.

BeetDigger
1/8/2007, 10:12 AM
I am pretty sure that fixed/variable refers to the adjustment that TV's use to compensate for the fact that commercials are broadcast at about 15 db above what shows are broadcast. The fixed feature prevents the blaring that goes on during a commercial.

Vaevictis
1/8/2007, 12:39 PM
This is something I need to get more info on. I guess I need to get my "thinking hat" on and start studying.:confused:

http://www.eff.org/IP/broadcastflag/
http://bpdg.blogs.eff.org/archives/000148.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag

Frozen Sooner
1/8/2007, 12:45 PM
I am pretty sure that fixed/variable refers to the adjustment that TV's use to compensate for the fact that commercials are broadcast at about 15 db above what shows are broadcast. The fixed feature prevents the blaring that goes on during a commercial.

I've usually seen it in reference to whether you want the output from the TV to be fixed or variable. In other words, if you want to control the signal coming from the TV to the receiver (allowing control of volume by the TV controls while leaving the receiver volume fixed) or leave it fixed, using only the receiver to control volume.

Boomer.....
1/9/2007, 10:43 AM
I've usually seen it in reference to whether you want the output from the TV to be fixed or variable. In other words, if you want to control the signal coming from the TV to the receiver (allowing control of volume by the TV controls while leaving the receiver volume fixed) or leave it fixed, using only the receiver to control volume.
I think that I am with BD on this one. When I went to fixed, I think it controls the TV speakers from increasing during commercials.

BTW, turning off the tv speakers is the only way that I can turn on surround sound speakers.

Okieflyer
1/12/2007, 04:55 PM
OK got my TV in the mail today. IT'S GREAT!!! :D

Thanks 85Sooner, Mike Rich, Vaevictis and everybody!

I made it to the 21st century.

Newbomb Turk
1/12/2007, 07:39 PM
OK got my TV in the mail today. IT'S GREAT!!! :D

Thanks 85Sooner, Mike Rich, Vaevictis and everybody!

I made it to the 21st century.

you are welcome :D

congrats on the TV - hope your 'lectric holds up this weekend.

Getem
1/12/2007, 10:47 PM
Me too! A quick comparison of the old vs new:

http://ok-wood.com/HLS6188.jpg
http://ok-wood.com/HLS6188b.jpg

One thing, these new DLP's are way, way too bright from the factory. I set this one down to movie mode and turned the brightness and contrast way down, and it's still too much. I spent a lot of time tweaking the old one, probably have to do the same with this one.

Okieflyer
1/12/2007, 11:14 PM
Shoot, your old one was a heck of a lot better than my old one!:eek:

Vaevictis
1/12/2007, 11:50 PM
Yeah, I just got in my new Samsung 46" DLP Slimline. Only 41 pounds; damn thing is much lighter than my much smaller old CRT.

I like it. A lot. :)

Getem
1/13/2007, 12:59 AM
Yeah, I'm gonna miss the old girl. We had some good times together. I actually paid $900 more for that one new than the new one.

Vaevictis, how is the geometry on those ultra slims? I got a little pincushion on mine, which was not unexpected. For 2007, they are doing those ultra-slims in 50, 56 and 61! For me, though, no point in having a TV narrower than my largest component.

Vaevictis
1/13/2007, 03:05 AM
Vaevictis, how is the geometry on those ultra slims? I got a little pincushion on mine, which was not unexpected. For 2007, they are doing those ultra-slims in 50, 56 and 61! For me, though, no point in having a TV narrower than my largest component.

Slimline: 41.3"(W) x 29.2"(H) x 10.64"(D)
Regular: 42.8"(W) x 32"(H) x 13.4"(D)

The real key is the weight. Regular is 66.8 pounds; I made a mistake on my earlier weight quote -- slimline is apparently 46.3. But still -- only about 2/3 of the weight, and damned light for a 46" TV.

Okieflyer
1/13/2007, 09:40 AM
Hey I think Newbomb would like to have your old one. :D So don't throw it away! ;)

What it is the lastest there Newbomb. Give us some of your research results!

Newbomb Turk
1/13/2007, 09:58 AM
What it is the lastest there Newbomb. Give us some of your research results!

nothing new. I'm not in a big hurry.

85Sooner
1/13/2007, 10:57 AM
Me too! A quick comparison of the old vs new:

http://ok-wood.com/HLS6188.jpg
http://ok-wood.com/HLS6188b.jpg

One thing, these new DLP's are way, way too bright from the factory. I set this one down to movie mode and turned the brightness and contrast way down, and it's still too much. I spent a lot of time tweaking the old one, probably have to do the same with this one.


Samsung typically blooms all their colors. Get an AVIA disc or diogital video essentials and spend some time with it. You'll be happy you did.

85Sooner
1/13/2007, 11:01 AM
Well, 85 is going to tell you that the HDMI jack on your Cable Box is going to signal the black helicopters to come to your house. Truly, on a cable broadcast, the only advantage HDMI has over component is it carries a digital audio stream. Picture-wise, it won't make a big difference at all.


Come on now froz. No black helicopters. HDMI is just an expensive way to hook up the equipment. Generally the digital processing in the tV's is gonna be better than any digital processing from any cheap dvd player.

Getem
1/13/2007, 11:55 AM
Hey I think Newbomb would like to have your old one. :D So don't throw it away! ;)

What it is the lastest there Newbomb. Give us some of your research results!


Heh, sorry, family has already claimed it. I only have it until the ice melts

Okieflyer
1/13/2007, 12:05 PM
Heh, sorry, family has already claimed it. I only have it until the ice melts
If they have a TV like I had then they'll be over soon in the Snow cat.;)

Getem
1/13/2007, 12:10 PM
Samsung typically blooms all their colors. Get an AVIA disc or diogital video essentials and spend some time with it. You'll be happy you did.
Yup. Spent a lot of time with AVIA and other computer generated patterns with the old one. Movie mode and turning everything down helps. IMO, this TV is unwatchable in dynamic mode.

One thing about the matching stand from Pinnacle, and probably you already know this, but it's just deep enough for the TV. The shelf is only about 15" deep, and good-size components won't fit. My receiver is hanging over the edge and pushed all the way to the left so I can get to the banana plugs, and I'm still gonna have to buy 90 degree adapters for the opticals. And my PC is hopeless; gonna have to go to a smaller case and probably microatx motherboard.

Okieflyer
1/13/2007, 03:42 PM
The next thing I'm curious about is this...

...KOCO (ABC) says it's being broadcast in 720P. The others say 1080i. It doesn't look near as good as CBS or NBC. I also have been told you can get HD on ABC on the South side of OKC. Why is this for you guys in the know?

Is this because ABC doesn't broadcast in HD and KOCO does?

Frozen Sooner
1/13/2007, 05:36 PM
720p is high definition.

However, I believe that most ABC shows are filmed in 720p. Could be wrong on that-I don't get ABC-HD up here.

Vaevictis
1/13/2007, 05:58 PM
...KOCO (ABC) says it's being broadcast in 720P. The others say 1080i. It doesn't look near as good as CBS or NBC. I also have been told you can get HD on ABC on the South side of OKC. Why is this for you guys in the know?

It's probably just because 720p is significantly lower resolution than 1080i is. I have in fact noticed that 1080i does look better... unless you're watching stuff with lots of quick motion (sports, action flicks). Then 1080i starts to have some artifacts on my TV that makes me drop it down to 720p.

Frozen Sooner
1/13/2007, 06:32 PM
Come on now froz. No black helicopters. HDMI is just an expensive way to hook up the equipment. Generally the digital processing in the tV's is gonna be better than any digital processing from any cheap dvd player.

Weren't you the guy talking about how HDMI allows the cable company to monitor what you're watching on DVD and stuff?

But yeah, the digital processing on a nice TV is going to be better than what you get on a $69 DVD player, for sure. On the other hand, using HDMI allows your TV to at least get a pure digital signal to work with as opposed to whatever crappy analog signal that selfsame DVD player is putting out.

As for me, I've got two nice optical disc players, so I prefer letting them handle whatever digital manipulations need to be done.

Vaevictus-

I think you're mistaken that 1080i is significantly better than 720p. On a properly-calibrated display, they shouldn't be that different. In fact, 720p actually uses more bandwidth than 1080i and refreshes the total image more often.

Okieflyer
1/13/2007, 07:02 PM
No I think it was channel 5 screwing things up. Same thing on channel 9 when they had the stupid "closings" up. It looked like crap.

720p or 1080i it should look great. But I've told you couldn't get ABC in HD. I hope that's wrong!

Newbomb Turk
1/13/2007, 08:19 PM
480 pwns 720 and 1080.

;)

Vaevictis
1/13/2007, 08:44 PM
I think you're mistaken that 1080i is significantly better than 720p. On a properly-calibrated display, they shouldn't be that different. In fact, 720p actually uses more bandwidth than 1080i and refreshes the total image more often.

I said 720p had significantly lower resolution ;) Which is true -- 1280x720 v. 1920x1080 is a whole hell of a lot less pixels.

Whether it is significantly better or not is going to depend on a variety of factors, such as the type of programming you're viewing, how big the TV is, how close you are to it, etc, etc.

For my setup, 1080i is visibly better *except* in cases where there is a lot of quick motion going on in the picture.

Vaevictis
1/13/2007, 08:50 PM
No I think it was channel 5 screwing things up. Same thing on channel 9 when they had the stupid "closings" up. It looked like crap.

But back to this, I was talking to a Radio Shack person the other day. Apparently, the transmit power on channel 5 had to be jacked down because it was interfering with a channel in Lawton or something.

Apparently, you have to be pretty close to it or use a pretty strong highly directional antenna to pick it up.

Newbomb Turk
1/13/2007, 09:02 PM
But back to this, I was talking to a Radio Shack person the other day. Apparently, the transmit power on channel 5 had to be jacked down because it was interfering with a channel in Lawton or something.

Apparently, you have to be pretty close to it or use a pretty strong highly directional antenna to pick it up.

F*** Lawton!

jack the signal back up!

Okieflyer
1/13/2007, 10:41 PM
I did finally get it (Channel 5) in HD without the closings banner and it looked great. So I'm good. I guess the peeps in Moore still can't get it though.

85Sooner
1/16/2007, 11:46 PM
Weren't you the guy talking about how HDMI allows the cable company to monitor what you're watching on DVD and stuff?

But yeah, the digital processing on a nice TV is going to be better than what you get on a $69 DVD player, for sure. On the other hand, using HDMI allows your TV to at least get a pure digital signal to work with as opposed to whatever crappy analog signal that selfsame DVD player is putting out.

As for me, I've got two nice optical disc players, so I prefer letting them handle whatever digital manipulations need to be done.

Vaevictus-

I think you're mistaken that 1080i is significantly better than 720p. On a properly-calibrated display, they shouldn't be that different. In fact, 720p actually uses more bandwidth than 1080i and refreshes the total image more often.

Nevertheless the fact is thathdmi keeps information in the digital domain and is ised for 1. HDCP high definition copy protection and 2. To send request information and additional information to the cable/sat companies. My point is that so many people were quacking up a storm in regards to the "phone/wire" tapping thing that was going on with natl security blah blah blah but most folks do/did not realize that HDMI was a connection made with the gathering of information as one of its priorities. anyway thats about all I have to say bout that:)

Frozen Sooner
1/16/2007, 11:48 PM
Dude, there's a pretty major difference between a cable company compiling a database of what you're watching and the government monitoring your calls.

85Sooner
1/16/2007, 11:52 PM
In addition to what Mike's already said, HDMI also enables an end-to-end digital transmission of content. This is important because every time you do an A/D or D/A conversion, you're degrading the signal by adding quantization noise. Using a digital transmission cable, you eliminate one D/A stage at the source (ie, DVD) and one A/D stage at the display (ie, the HDTV which often -- if not always? -- digital internally).

Note that depending on the quality of the D/A and A/D converters at either end, this may or may not make a difference to the viewer. Eventually, you can expect that the manufacturers will want to toss the analog channels altogether -- the D/A-A/D converters cost money. The content providers want this too, as the HDMI cable can pass copyright flags between devices which will cause devices that honor them to prevent you from copying the signal and/or degrade it before they let you do it.

Speaking of which, the content industry is lobbying Congress/FCC to make it illegal for manufacturers to disregard the copyright flag. This not only costs you money -- because it costs money to develop the hardware and software to honor it -- but it may also prevent you from exercising your fair use rights under copyright. If you care about this, the time to write your Congress-people is now.


THe funny thing is , so many people think that digital is better. The fact is that digital is not better, the "film" look so desired by the videophiles of the world is simply not achieveable in the digital domain. Listen to an old LP (for those young bucks here us older folks know that as a long playing record or album) ? The sound from that kills the sound from the avg cd. However, we can't play frisbee with it then throw it in the car and off we go. Does your "digital "cell phone sound better than the landline based phone that you grew up with? Nope, but unfortunatly the extra long phone cables were getting stuck in between cars during rush hour.

Point being, that our society will accept a much lower quality for a cheaper price and more portability. and your right, contact your congressman.

85Sooner
1/16/2007, 11:57 PM
Dude, there's a pretty major difference between a cable company compiling a database of what you're watching and the government monitoring your calls.


If your one who believes that the media does not manipulate the public by their development of certain shows, news programs, and movies then I guess your right. I in fact believe that and have seen it. Plus see Boston Legal tonight.

The fact is, the bandwidth necessary to make everyone happy with HDTV simply is not there. Thus the cable companies are now switching their opperations. Now you will have to request a channel from them directly in order to view it. Anyone who believes that the media/movie industry etc... are not in bed with the feds is not paying attention. As far as the monitoring of calls in the US,and doing so based on rules developed for the rico statute have been around for along time, the democrats and a few repubs just stirred up the pot to get their screen time.

Mjcpr
1/20/2007, 05:27 PM
What would I be looking for to use as a TV for a standard definition signal and an HD monitor for XBox 360? If I got one, it'd be for the boy's bedroom since his TV sucks and isn't HD so it can't take advantage of one of the main 360 selling points. Would an HDTV "monitor" work?

I'm looking for a flat panel and relatively small. And cheap. :)

Frozen Sooner
1/20/2007, 05:30 PM
Yes. Westinghouse makes relatively inexpensive LCDs, as does Viewsonic and a few others. In fact, I have a Viewsonic LCD HD-ready TV in my bedroom.

Edit: However, if you go the "monitor" route you're gonna need to buy something to hook the sound up to.

Mjcpr
1/20/2007, 05:33 PM
So the units I saw that were advertised as an HDTV "monitor" are just that....like a computer monitor? I figured it meant it didn't have the HD tuner in it or something.

Frozen Sooner
1/20/2007, 05:41 PM
Could be, could be. Normally when I've seen people use monitor in connection to a display device, it was the display only with no tuner (even an analog one) or onboard sound.

85Sooner
1/21/2007, 12:10 PM
Monitor = no tuner and no speakers

mxATVracer10
1/23/2007, 02:29 PM
I just came across this 32" LCD HDTV from Astar (http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?Sku=7219460) Anyone have any knowledge of this product? It appears to be a pretty good deal, but I've never heard of the company...

Beef
1/23/2007, 03:04 PM
This ****ty weather has been making me wish I had bought a nice TV instead of the motorcycle. I'm sure that will change once the temps start getting into the 60's again.

stoops the eternal pimp
2/9/2007, 08:43 PM
Thanks for answering my questions earlier. Just one more..

I see that Samsung has a DLP that is LED instead of the old color wheel which is supposed to stretch out the life from the typical 3-5 thousand for the bulbs to 20000. Whats the scoop on that

Getem
2/10/2007, 10:32 AM
The LED sets have the advantage of no color wheel (supposed to solve the rainbow effect), and no 132 watt lamp (quicker startup time, heat issues). However, the HLS series LED did not match the lamp/wheel based units in black level, color gamut, and probably contrast as well. The HLTs showed at this January's CES are said to be much improved, but we probably won't see them til April at the earliest.

StoopTroup
2/22/2007, 06:55 PM
What's the best TV to get for work?

It has to be handheld and stealthy.

Can you get one with built in satellite capability?

DuSStyBottoms22
3/1/2007, 12:57 PM
Hey all I bought a new indoor antenna to get the local stations and for some reason I can get 4, 9, and 25 but I can't get channel 5.

Any HD gurus out there that could lend a hand and help me out?

mxATVracer10
3/1/2007, 01:03 PM
take a look at antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org), enter your zip code and it will give you a list of stations and their frequencies, location of towers, etc. It will also list the recommended antenna to receive each channel. Chances are that your indoor antenna isn't strong enough to pull in Ch. 5. I have an indoor one right now as well, but I'm going to take it back and get one to go in the attic or outside... highdefforum.com (http://www.highdefforum.com) has been very helpful for me, just go into the "OTA" forums and look around :texan:

DuSStyBottoms22
3/1/2007, 01:26 PM
I went to antenna web and looking at it I see Koco 5.1 is a vhf channel where the others are all UHF.. I guess that might be a problemo.

What antenna would you recommend I get?

Norm In Norman
3/1/2007, 01:32 PM
That is the problem. You need an antenna that gets UHF and VHF.

Norm In Norman
3/1/2007, 01:33 PM
Look at hdtvok.com and there is some sort of antenna those guys use. Personally, i have a fairly large outdoor antenna in my attic and I ran a cable into my living room.

DuSStyBottoms22
3/1/2007, 01:47 PM
Well, I looked at my antenna and it is a UHF/VHF/FM amplified antenna.. Philips Mant510... granted its not the most sophisticated piece of technology in the world but I don't know why it isn't working. I'm not sure I want to go to the trouble with an outdoor antenna but I do want something that works.

Taxman71
3/1/2007, 02:52 PM
I have to point my antenna in a different direction to pickup 5.1 (ABC) and 25.1 (FOX) than I do to pick up 4.1, 9.1 and 13.1. Since I only have to use the antenna for 5.1 and 25.1, it's no big deal as I just leave it there. I have the $50 Terk5 antenna behind my tv.

DuSStyBottoms22
3/1/2007, 03:16 PM
Hmm weird, I which direction are you pointing it? I have mine pointed due north and i can get 25.1..

Newbomb Turk
3/1/2007, 03:28 PM
What part of the city do you live in?

If I remember right, a co-worker that lives in Moore can't pick up 5 on his antenna either. People on the north side can.

Hatfield
3/1/2007, 04:01 PM
i pick up the local abc on 7.3 in the metro area

Vaevictis
3/1/2007, 04:18 PM
IIRC, 5 had to reduce its transmit power because it was interfering with a channel in (I think) Lawton.

Unless you're nearer the north side of OKC, you probably need a directional roof mount antenna to pick it up.

DuSStyBottoms22
3/1/2007, 04:56 PM
Yeah I'm in moore as well.. thanks for the info

mxATVracer10
3/1/2007, 05:02 PM
the peeps over at highdefforum usually suggest turning the gain all the way down on amplified antennas first since the amplification also amplifies noise and that isnt good. How far did antennaweb say you were from the towers? That has a lot to do with it as well....

OUHOMER
3/1/2007, 05:37 PM
My son just bought a HD tv. we hooked it up and i have very large outside antenna, i did not realize on our old set how bad a resecption was , we always saw snow, but it twice as bad on his tv. I going to call dish network and have them add local chanels to the service

OUAndy1807
3/9/2007, 10:02 PM
anyone ever wired their house for a whole house audio system? I'm trying to set a system that will allow me to play my stereo throughout the house and will also let me play mp3's from my computer. I also wouldn't be opposed to being able to play divx videos from my computer on my television.

our attic has been converted to a second floor, but has not been finished, so I'll be able to run the wiring myself relatively easily, I'm just trying to figure out what I'll need schematically.

Newbomb Turk
3/9/2007, 10:54 PM
I'm just trying to figure out what I'll need

well...a bunch of wire.

hope that helps. ;)

Frozen Sooner
3/23/2007, 11:32 PM
anyone ever wired their house for a whole house audio system? I'm trying to set a system that will allow me to play my stereo throughout the house and will also let me play mp3's from my computer. I also wouldn't be opposed to being able to play divx videos from my computer on my television.

our attic has been converted to a second floor, but has not been finished, so I'll be able to run the wiring myself relatively easily, I'm just trying to figure out what I'll need schematically.

Well, the receiver I was just telling Dean about (and that I ended up buying) has three-zone amplification, so you could use that. Yamaha RX-V1700. Dang thing sounds great. Even comes with a second remote that you can keep in the other room. If you go with the 2700 model, it comes with an ethernet port to run with Windows Media Center-or you can just buy the iPod dock for the 1700 for about $90.

Getem
4/3/2007, 09:50 PM
Pretty good deal at Circuit City - 4 free HD-DVDs with purchase of Tosh HD-A2 HD-DVD player for $400. Plus you can get 5 more free from Toshiba using the rebate form. I went to Best Buy to see if they would match the deal - they did, plus they let me pick the 4 movies. The 5 from Tosh have to come from their list. Still, 9 movies pretty much free. Now if we could just get a few of those studios to go neutral... Anyone want to buy a nearly new Oppo 970?

Frozen Sooner
4/3/2007, 11:02 PM
Welcome to HD DVD land.

That Tosh deal is pretty outstanding. Hell, 9 HD DVDs alone costs about $270, so you really only paid $130 for the player. Not a bad deal at all.

Taxman71
4/4/2007, 09:16 AM
That receiver looks cool. Looks like I could use that to run a separate source to my 6.1 theater, outdoor speakers and speakers in my study. Add a universal remote with RF and it could be accessed from anywhere on my property.

Getem
4/7/2007, 11:40 AM
The Tosh A2 is down to $300 some places. No free movies up front at that price, but you still get the 5 from Toshiba.

So, is this Tosh getting aggressive in the format war, or a desperation move brought on by strong blu-ray sales the last few months? I'm hoping the former

Frozen Sooner
4/7/2007, 11:55 AM
That receiver looks cool. Looks like I could use that to run a separate source to my 6.1 theater, outdoor speakers and speakers in my study. Add a universal remote with RF and it could be accessed from anywhere on my property.

Yep. Now I have to figure out how to wire up speakers in my bedroom and I'm golden.

Frozen Sooner
4/7/2007, 11:55 AM
The Tosh A2 is down to $300 some places. No free movies up front at that price, but you still get the 5 from Toshiba.

So, is this Tosh getting aggressive in the format war, or a desperation move brought on by strong blu-ray sales the last few months? I'm hoping the former

Unfortunately, I think it's a little from column A and a lot from column B.

Tosh just failed to capitalize on their early lead.

SoonerAtKU
4/9/2007, 03:58 PM
Would someone take a look at this TV and give me a run-down of the negatives? All of the reviews sound like someone just spent a bunch of money and really want to feel good about their TV choice.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNS4051D-40-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000ELOQS2/ref=dp_return_1/104-1476356-0601534?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics

Frozen Sooner
4/9/2007, 04:16 PM
Can't look at Amazon at work. I'm not a big fan of Samsung products, but they give OK value.

Getem
4/9/2007, 07:56 PM
Would someone take a look at this TV and give me a run-down of the negatives? All of the reviews sound like someone just spent a bunch of money and really want to feel good about their TV choice.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNS4051D-40-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000ELOQS2/ref=dp_return_1/104-1476356-0601534?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics

You probably need to go and look at one yourself. My impression of LCD's is they excel at bright material but black level is not as good as other technologies. That particular one is the best selling LCD on Amazon, if that means anything. I'm not sure I would go for a 720p TV at this point in time.

Frozen Sooner
4/9/2007, 07:58 PM
You probably need to go and look at one yourself. My impression of LCD's is they excel at bright material but black level is not as good as other technologies. That particular one is the best selling LCD on Amazon, if that means anything. I'm not sure I would go for a 720p TV at this point in time.

At a distance of 10' on a screen of 50" or smaller, someone with 20/20 vision cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Varying the size of the TV and the distance changes this number.

Getem
4/9/2007, 08:01 PM
Unfortunately, I think it's a little from column A and a lot from column B.

Tosh just failed to capitalize on their early lead.

They were kind of the underdog from the start, with all the studio and hardware manufacturer support of blu-ray, but are holding their own. We'll see how the price drops affect the race. Plus, looks like Samsung, stung by Sony blaming them for early blu-ray problems, is going to make some HDDVD stuff.

Getem
4/9/2007, 08:04 PM
At a distance of 10' on a screen of 50" or smaller, someone with 20/20 vision cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Varying the size of the TV and the distance changes this number.

Well, that is true, didn't know his particular sitchiation

Frozen Sooner
4/9/2007, 08:56 PM
They were kind of the underdog from the start, with all the studio and hardware manufacturer support of blu-ray, but are holding their own. We'll see how the price drops affect the race. Plus, looks like Samsung, stung by Sony blaming them for early blu-ray problems, is going to make some HDDVD stuff.

Absolutely they were-and not only did Sony have superior studio and CE support, they had a better spec than HD DVD. HD DVD got a semi-affordable player out first and rolled out a bunch of decent content before BD got their crap together. They bolted out to a huge early lead, then squandered it in Q1.

Getem
4/9/2007, 09:23 PM
Absolutely they were-and not only did Sony have superior studio and CE support, they had a better spec than HD DVD. HD DVD got a semi-affordable player out first and rolled out a bunch of decent content before BD got their crap together. They bolted out to a huge early lead, then squandered it in Q1.

I think the PS3 had a lot to do with that. Without it, blu-ray would be a goner already. Hopefully, studios are realizing that the reasons for going blu (better technology and better DRM) have not panned out, and the reasons for going HDDVD (cheaper) have. Would love to get Fox or Disney to go neutral.

Frozen Sooner
4/9/2007, 10:40 PM
Ain't going to happen.

The PS3 was a catalyst, but the dismal release schedule for HD DVD in Q1 is what doomed them. In the past three months I've bought nearly 30 BDs compared to ONE HD DVD-and the HD DVD was a mistake, I thought it was HD DVD exclusive.

Neither Fox nor Disney is going neutral any time soon. The best bet would be Lion's Gate as the first to go neutral.

Vaevictis
4/19/2007, 01:01 AM
I would just like to say that happiness is a nice HDTV with two S-Video/RCA inputs, two HDMI inputs, two component inputs, a VGA in and a PC/Headjack Sound in, and a remote control that lets you switch between them.

Oh, and an HD DVR, DVD player, Playstation 2, Wii, and a salvaged laptop with a broke LCD screen but a functioning alternate video out and a wireless keyboard and mouse.

It could be better, but not much. :D

skycat
4/25/2007, 12:51 PM
So I haven't followed the industry lately. If someone was interested in a 40-50" type TV, was looking to buy in the fall, and had a decent budget, what is the recommendation?

Frozen Sooner
4/25/2007, 01:43 PM
Define "decent budget."

If price is no object, Pioneer Elite.

If you're trying to keep it kind of reasonable, the newer Sonys are great TVs.

Panasonic is tough to go wrong with.

If you're going to be sitting more than 8 feet or so away from the TV, at that size I don't know if I'd be concerned with 1080p capability, but it wouldn't hurt.

skycat
4/25/2007, 02:03 PM
I might be able to swing a 50" Pioneer Elite, but I'd have to put the hard sell on the CFO.

Hmmmm

Sooner in Tampa
4/30/2007, 08:46 AM
OK...I read through most of this and don't know $hit. The Mrs. and I were kicking around in COSTCO yesterday and we saw that they had a Vizio 50" Plasma for $1399. We saw two of them roll out of the store while we were there. It seems like a decent price for a tv of that size and capability.

We do not watch a ton of tv, but we would like a plasma...we currently have a 51" Hitachi HD Projection tv. I want to move the Hitachi into the family room so the kids can bang away @ Xbox and we can still watch tv in the front room.

Is the Vizio gonna do the trick...or do we need to @$$ more money?

Frozen Sooner
4/30/2007, 11:26 AM
Vizio is definitely second or third tier electronics. Displays are one area where you really do get what you pay for.

Sooner in Tampa
4/30/2007, 11:31 AM
So what your saying is we need to just @$$ more money...or keep waiting for the prices to continue to drop?

Okieflyer
5/15/2007, 10:15 AM
Alright someone help a poor guy who is trying to buy a video capture card so I can make my own PVR, or DVR. I have a computer with vista and I was wanting to capture HDTV and watch it on my TV, not my PC. Well at least TV and PC. I have a Directtv HR20 receiver and a Sony KDS-60A2000 TV.

I can't figure out what I need to get going. I know if I don't just ask, I will buy the wrong thing.

Newbomb Turk
5/15/2007, 11:15 AM
you're not poor - you're a rich, overpaid gubment worker.

RedStripe
5/15/2007, 11:47 AM
I am wanting to put a 37 or 42 inch tv on my back patio. It has about 10 - 12 foot overhang and faces east and is fully protected from the north and partially from the south. Do I need to buy an outdoor set or can I put an indoor set out there and bring it inside when the weather gets bad?

Okieflyer
5/15/2007, 12:41 PM
you're not poor - you're a rich, overpaid gubment worker.

First time I post in awhile and I get ragged on.;)

I was talking about being poor in my knowledge of Video Capture cards and such!:P


I am wanting to put a 37 or 42 inch tv on my back patio. It has about 10 - 12 foot overhang and faces east and is fully protected from the north and partially from the south. Do I need to buy an outdoor set or can I put an indoor set out there and bring it inside when the weather gets bad?

You CAN do either of those options. My bro-in-law just built a cabinet that closes up tight and leaves his TV outside.

Okieflyer
5/15/2007, 01:41 PM
One thing I am sad about is that this thread has lost it's stickyness.

Frozen Sooner
5/15/2007, 02:11 PM
Alright someone help a poor guy who is trying to buy a video capture card so I can make my own PVR, or DVR. I have a computer with vista and I was wanting to capture HDTV and watch it on my TV, not my PC. Well at least TV and PC. I have a Directtv HR20 receiver and a Sony KDS-60A2000 TV.

I can't figure out what I need to get going. I know if I don't just ask, I will buy the wrong thing.

Norm would be a great person to ask about this. He was very into Tifaux stuff for a while.

Frozen Sooner
5/15/2007, 02:15 PM
Oh, and so that I can update everyone on my setup, just 'cause you want to know:

Panasonic 42" plasma
PS3 (BD and SACD)
Tosiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player
Yamaha RX-V1700 receiver
Sony 50+1 CD changer
B&W 603 S2 speakersx2
Mirage center channel
Mirage separatesx2 Right surround and left surround
Altec Lansing bookshelfsx2 back surrounds

For those of you who have either analog 5 channel input on your receiver or HDMI input-try SACD surround at some point. It will blow you away.

1stTimeCaller
5/15/2007, 03:54 PM
I got an LG 42" plasma the other day. I guess I could copy Frozen Mike's receiver and speakers for good surround sound?

Newbomb Turk
5/15/2007, 03:56 PM
First time I post in awhile and I get ragged on.;)


That's why you are on my Buddy List. :D

Frozen Sooner
5/15/2007, 04:49 PM
I got an LG 42" plasma the other day. I guess I could copy Frozen Mike's receiver and speakers for good surround sound?

Yes. The receiver shoud run you around $800 if you shop for it online. The B&Ws should run about $600, the Mirage surrounds and center should be about $900 for all three of them. Forgot to add in my subwoofer, which should run you another $750 or so. You can dispense with the Altec Lansings-they're just hooked up for s&g to check out 7.1 surround. Almost nothing is actually mastered in 7.1, so you really don't need it.

So, all told, you're in for about $3000 for receiver and speakers.

Jesus, I spend a lot of money on this crap. That means I'm into my home theater for about $6500.

Edit: It's worth mentioning that source is going to have a lot to do with getting good surround. Make sure you buy decent quality sources.

1stTimeCaller
5/15/2007, 05:02 PM
sources?

Frozen Sooner
5/15/2007, 05:27 PM
Source (in this context) is the unit that sends a signal to the receiver. For example, if you hook an iPod up to that setup, don't expect great surround sound. Of if you hook up a $50 DVD player that you got at Wal-Mart.

1stTimeCaller
5/15/2007, 06:18 PM
thanks!

Okieflyer
5/17/2007, 07:00 AM
That's why you are on my Buddy List. :D

So that's what the buddy list is for!:O

Does anyone have a video capture card in their PC? What's a good one?

Newbomb Turk
5/17/2007, 07:17 AM
Does anyone have a video capture card in their PC? What's a good one?

I thought Jim's son hooked you up with the details?

Okieflyer
5/17/2007, 08:31 AM
I thought Jim's son hooked you up with the details?

No the problem there is that he just bought the Windows Media unit. It's like a stand alone. I'm trying to use my existing PC. That way I can also continue to use it for video editing.

You know like Lee does.:D

Rogue
7/1/2007, 07:58 PM
I'm among the lucky now that Mrs. Rogue has tasted the HD goodness at a hotel recently. She's been to Best Buy looking at HD, Plasma, etc teevees. I looked at the back of one of those units and about crapped myself. More places to plug in wires and cables than all of my computer stuff combined.

So, explain this to me like I'm a tech-n00b, in the $2000.00 range it looks like I can buy several versions of HD, LCD, Plasma, LG thing-a-ma-jiggers in the 42" to 50" range. Mrs. Rogue is sold on plasma I think. I'm really thinking that we'll have some geek-squad or similar ******-*******s come hook everything up. What are some bonehead moves that I'll regret later if you don't tell me? What options will I want to have later that I should think about now? Something in my Y-chomosome tells me that I shouldn't compromise on size and if comes down to 46" vs 47" I'll get the bigger one. :D

Frozen Sooner
7/1/2007, 08:07 PM
How far back from the display will you be sitting? Overbuying on size compared to distance is a pretty common mistake.

If you're relatively handy with tools, mounting the TV yourself is pretty simple. And by "relatively" I mean "handier than SicEm."

The BIGGEST bonehead mistake I see is people purchasing HD-capable displays and then feeding them non-HD source material.

Rogue
7/1/2007, 09:30 PM
Our living room now isn't very big. Maybe 10-12' from the wall. And we're thinking about putting it on a nice cabinet or something vs. wall-mounting. The wall would be nice, but we'll have to have the cable box, DVD, etc anyhow and that would just mean weirdness with the cables and such. I hope that distance doesn't mean that we should be looking at something smaller. C'mon Froz, tell it to me straight.

Comcast digital cable only has a handful of HD channels.

Frozen Sooner
7/1/2007, 10:12 PM
Nah, at that distance you're looking good on those sizes. My display is actually a bit small for my room size.

Wall-mounting that stuff isn't a huge deal if you're handy. It's a bit time-consuming though and a bit spendier to make it look nice, though. A good electronics supply store should have the appropriate wall plates so you can run the wires behind the drywall.

Anyhow, here's a picture of my setup. Forgive me the color of the walls. :( (Hang on, pulling the pic off my phone right now.)

goingoneight
8/1/2007, 02:28 AM
How do I (if possible) get four-hours of quality video recorded onto one disc? Is that possible? Every disc assortment I've found is in 2-hour (120 min) capacity. I'm wanting to start recording my old games and this coming season's games, but Methinks when I'm outta town I'll need to have about 4 hours for commercials and timeouts, etc. Anyone have a strategy other than changing the quality of the recording? I've heard that changing your player to 4-hour recording mode produces poor quality and sound... I'd like to, if possible, have good quality video and sound so I can experiment with my own video editing. My new DVD recorder is great, it works just like a VCR for timer-recording and stuff... so that much has been easy.

Frozen Sooner
8/1/2007, 12:31 PM
Buy a BD burner, that's how. :D

goingoneight
8/1/2007, 11:35 PM
NM, I found some 5-hour discs at Best Buy today. Esspensive puppies, they are... but I ogt enough to record me some Sooner games.

OUAndy1807
8/30/2007, 08:17 PM
check the scenario, helpful friends:
we have a second bedroom. this room is the guest room/computer room/hobby room.

if I don't move my PS3 from the living room, my wife is going to murder me.

currently, our futon/bed thing is 12' from the wall that the new TV will be on. we also have a 32" wide chest of drawers that the TV can sit on.

this TV will be used mainly for me to play NCAA2k8, Ninja Gaiden and Motorstorm on, but will see some light use as a TV. no other A/V equipment in the room, just a cable jack.

I'm pretty cheap, but not cheap enough to want to hook my PS3 up to a non-hd tv.

LCD or DLP? If I buy a DLP, will my cat try to jump on top of it? Any advice for finding the best buy besides just watching for open items at best buy?

Newbomb Turk
8/30/2007, 08:24 PM
LCD or DLP? If I buy a DLP, will my cat try to jump on top of it? Any advice for finding the best buy besides just watching for open items at best buy?

I don't think you'll find a lot of love for DLP in this thread - reliability issues. They are pretty darn cheap right now though. I'd buy a rear-projection LCD before a DLP. There's a good website to find good deals buying a HDTV online if you don't mind that kind of thing - I'll try to dig it up. Of course some people prefer a bit of customer service, and I tend to lean that way.

Frozen Sooner
8/30/2007, 10:55 PM
LCD for gaming, for sure. Newbomb is right-you're not going to find a lot of love for DLP from me. Rainbow, etc.

OUAndy1807
8/30/2007, 11:11 PM
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=112141&catGroupId=24974&modelNo=TC-32LX70&surfModel=TC-32LX70&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702
eh?

Frozen Sooner
8/30/2007, 11:12 PM
I'm a big Panasonic fan, so yeah, that'll probably work great for you.

OUAndy1807
8/30/2007, 11:14 PM
or, eh?
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665192801

I think I'll stick with a big name, 32" widescreen LCD. Now let's see how long I can hold out (my money is on "until Sunday")

Frozen Sooner
8/30/2007, 11:18 PM
Sony makes the best LCDs, but I'm not sure about the Bravias. 85 can probably shed more light for you on that.

I just made the switch from plasma to LCD in my house.

Newbomb Turk
8/31/2007, 06:41 AM
Andy - Looks like that Panasonic you linked is 1080p, and the Sony is 720p. I know the PS3 plays Blu-ray in 1080p, but not sure about the games. This may be a consideration for you.

1stTimeCaller
8/31/2007, 07:44 AM
I'm just not sold on LCD > Plasma. I have a plasma in the living room and an LCD in my bedroom and I like the picture on the plasma better. It could be that it's 10" bigger but the picture is clearer, IMO.

OUAndy1807
8/31/2007, 08:33 AM
I'm just not sold on LCD > Plasma. I have a plasma in the living room and an LCD in my bedroom and I like the picture on the plasma better. It could be that it's 10" bigger but the picture is clearer, IMO.
wrong.

Taxman71
8/31/2007, 08:37 AM
I can't imagine there is a difference between 720 and 1080 on a 32" screen. May make a difference with scaling/interlacing from a 1080 source like the PS3 as stated above.

Frozen Sooner
8/31/2007, 11:23 AM
Depends on how close you sit to it, really.

Taxman71
8/31/2007, 01:27 PM
I'm just not sold on LCD > Plasma. I have a plasma in the living room and an LCD in my bedroom and I like the picture on the plasma better. It could be that it's 10" bigger but the picture is clearer, IMO.

I find the glass screen on the plasmas (compared to a matte screen on LCD) to be the biggest annoyance. Plus, it just looks like the technology is fading in favor of LCD.

Frozen Sooner
8/31/2007, 01:44 PM
I'm just not sold on LCD > Plasma. I have a plasma in the living room and an LCD in my bedroom and I like the picture on the plasma better. It could be that it's 10" bigger but the picture is clearer, IMO.

I wasn't really sold either, and I'm still not really sold. All things being equal, I still say that a plasma gives a better picture than an LCD. Then again, a CRT gives a better picture than either. Things are rapidly becoming unequal-there are so many more manufacturers making good-quality LCDs than there are making plasmas that you're getting much more diversity of features and more rapidly-advancing technology with the LCDs. Anymore, the only high-quality manufacturers making plasmas are Pioneer and Panasonic-either one of which will make a TV that gives you a noticeably better picture than a Samsung, LG, etc. On the other hand, if you go with a high-end LCD manufacturer such as Sony or Mitsubishi then you're going to have a really hard time saying that a Panasonic is going to have a noticeably better picture.

The major concerns with the LCDs have always been picture latency, banding, and black levels. All of those concerns seem to have been addressed by the major manufacturers-if you're buying a TV with 5ms response time, you're not going to notice latency, banding was a problem with displays that didn't have adequate color response, and some of the newest LCDs have incredible blacks.

The major concerns with plasmas have also been solved, by the way. Burn-in is no longer the issue it was. Display life on the new Panasonics is 100k hours, which translates into like 30 years of 8 hour a day viewing. They're still a lot heavier and consume more power than LCDs.

1stTimeCaller
8/31/2007, 02:00 PM
That settles that. My plasma > my LCD. Suck it Andy!!!!

My eyes aren't really good enough to see differences in the various manufacturer's TVs.

OUAndy1807
8/31/2007, 04:13 PM
they have a 32" westinhouse at Best Buy for 550. Are we to the point that the second/third tier LCD's are close, or not?

I'll probably hold out and get the sony or panasonic.

Frozen Sooner
8/31/2007, 04:15 PM
I would buy an Insignia before I'd buy a Westinghouse.

Westinghouse=poor quality.

The HDMI inputs on the TV are just DVI ports with HDMI slots-which means no sound gets input to the TV.

1stTimeCaller
8/31/2007, 04:22 PM
Is LG better than Westinghouse? I picked up a 32" LG LCD for that price in Ardmore.

Frozen Sooner
8/31/2007, 04:29 PM
LG is much better than Westinghouse.

OUAndy1807
8/31/2007, 04:57 PM
Is LG better than Westinghouse? I picked up a 32" LG LCD for that price in Ardmore.
I saw your TV. It's a GL, not an LG.

1stTimeCaller
8/31/2007, 05:05 PM
I'll bet it has a bigger set of rabbit ears than yours does.

And I didn't get that good of a deal on it. I like messing with Andy. We dated in college.

sooneron
8/31/2007, 10:54 PM
I lub my 42" Pioneer, it RMFO. Great blacks and shadow detail.


edit: Of course, that now seems weird with my avatar

OUAndy1807
9/3/2007, 04:09 PM
I'll probably kick myself for this, but I passed on an open item 32" LG LCD at Best Buy. It was 20% off of $850. I don't think it had the stand, though.

1stTimeCaller
9/3/2007, 04:28 PM
dummy

frankensooner
10/4/2007, 01:13 PM
I am starting a stand alone thread since everyone is ignoring my post. thanks.! http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100905