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1stTimeCaller
12/27/2006, 05:14 AM
You're about to pay exactly $1 more per pack on your smokes in a week -

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4425102.html

Dec. 25, 2006, 1:18AM
$1-a-pack hike in cigarette tax a few days away
Advocates hope increase will keep more from lighting up; store owners fear dip in profits

By GARY SCHARRER
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau


HEALTH COSTS

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that smoking-caused health costs total $10.28 per pack sold and consumed in the U.S.

HOW WE STACK UP

Cigarette excise taxes

per pack:

•Texas $1.41

Neighboring states:

•Oklahoma $1.03

•New Mexico 91 cents

•Arkansas 59 cents

•Louisiana 36 cents

AUSTIN — Texas smokers will pay significantly more for cigarettes starting Jan. 1 when the excise tax increases by $1 a pack in a move that health experts hope will discourage folks, especially teens, from lighting up.

The state tax increase — from 41 cents to $1.41 per pack — also will help pay for school property tax cuts.

Some smokers say legislators went too far, while the convenience store industry worries that the steep price increase will lead to more black market sales and cut into legitimate sales of tobacco products.

But others argue that health issues should trump all else.

"The cigarette tax, more than anything, will have the most significant impact in stopping kids from ever starting smoking, because they are so price-sensitive," said James Gray, a spokesman for the American Cancer Society, Texas chapter.

The Texas tax increase will push the price of a single pack of cigarettes to around $4.50.

An estimated 143,000 Texas adults will quit smoking, and a projected 284,000 teens never will start smoking as a result of the tax increase, Gray said, citing various studies. About 3.3 million Texans currently smoke, based on a 20 percent adult smoking rate in the state, he said.

Texas taxpayers spend about $1.5 billion a year, Gray said, for treating tobacco-related illness in the Medicaid program for low-income people.

'A terrible shock'
Most smokers don't realize they soon will be paying considerably more for their habit, said longtime smoker Gertrude Lizakowski, of San Antonio.

"They are going to get a terrible shock when Jan. 1 comes around," she said.

A one-pack-a-day smoker will pay nearly $50 a month in tobacco excise and sales taxes, Lizakowski said.

"That's pretty heavy for smokers in Texas," she said. "I think it's unfair, because it targets one class of people."

Lizakowski has been smoking for 66 years and does not plan to stop now.

"Am I going to quit just because cigarettes go up $10 a carton? No. Why should I? It's an addiction. It's a withdrawal thing just like drugs. And it's hard on your nerves," she said about quitting.

She recently stocked up with seven cartons to save herself $70 in new taxes.

Teenagers and smoking
Lawmakers declined to increase cigarette taxes during a tight budget year in 2003 when they cut spending on the Children's Health Insurance Program.

But they could not resist raising cigarette taxes in the spring when searching for more revenue to cut property taxes. The $1-per-pack increase should generate roughly $700 million a year more in taxes, according to projections by the comptroller's office: $682.6 million in fiscal 2008 and $722.8 million for fiscal 2009.

All of that new tax revenue will go to reduce property taxes. But Senate Health and Human Services Chairwoman Jane Nelson, R-Lewisville, said she will renew efforts in the upcoming legislative session to allocate a modest portion for smoking prevention programs aimed at teenagers.

"As a mother and a grandmother, it's very important for me that we stop a whole other generation of kids from being hooked on tobacco," she said. "The cost is just too great."

She said she wants lawmakers to set aside 5 percent of the new tobacco tax revenue for anti-smoking programs.

"Every month you can keep a person past 14 from smoking, chances are they won't become a smoker," Nelson said.

Texas' cigarette tax rate will leave 15 other states with higher taxes on cigarettes. New Jersey has the highest state tax at $2.58 per pack. But some communities also impose local taxes, creating a combined state-local tax rate of $3.66 per pack in Chicago, for example. Anchorage has a tax of $3.10 per pack, and New York City taxes $3 per pack.

Tobacco sellers
Convenience stores are bracing for a financial setback, as cigarettes represent 34 percent of in-store sales, said Chris Newton, president of the Texas Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Store Association.

About 14,000 convenience stores in Texas will face fewer sales as shoppers forgo stops for cigarettes, Newton said.

"Consumers who choose not to stop by a convenience store to purchase cigarettes means that those same consumers will also not be making other purchases they traditionally make when purchasing cigarettes, such as soft drinks or food products," he said. "The economic impact of these consumers' decisions will be especially felt in Texas' border cities like El Paso and Texarkana."

El Pasoans will save $5 in excise taxes on every carton by shopping in neighboring New Mexico, while Texarkana shoppers could save more than $8 per carton in Arkansas.

"The impact will be disproportionate along those areas of Texas that border other states, because the consumer will readily cross the border to save that much on cigarette taxes," Newton said.

He said he fears that more smokers will turn to the Internet for tax-free cigarettes, Indian tribal retailers or black market cigarettes.

The convenience store industry will urge Texas lawmakers and the comptroller's office to beef up enforcement efforts.

"Our association has encouraged its members to promptly report any signs of illicit activities or other tax-evasion schemes to the comptroller's office or their local law enforcement authorities," Newton said.

What happens when everyone quits smoking? Where do the politicians get their money from then? Do they cut programs or raise taxes?

12
12/27/2006, 06:26 AM
If they touch my Copenhagen, there's gonna be HELL to pay.

Oh wait, the expense is already ridiculous.

You know, for a once-or-twice-a-day dipper, I should probably just give it up.

jk the sooner fan
12/27/2006, 07:27 AM
some will quit but not enough to make a difference

MamaMia
12/27/2006, 08:04 AM
They ought to tax them $2.00 a pack for a couple of years and use the money to fix the Cotton Bowl stadium.

BajaOklahoma
12/27/2006, 09:12 AM
They interviewed a store owner in Oak Cliff. She said people are coming in and buying 10-20 cartons at a time. She can barely keep them on the shelves.

It is hard to quit. My mother did it cold turkey, in 1965, after we went to the State Fair. An old broad was stnading next to me at one of the booths, cigarette hanging out of her mouth. The ash from the end of her cigarette fell on me - it hurt. My mom said she realized at that moment that was no way in **** that she was ever going to be the one sripping ashes on people. She has never smoked again.

royalfan5
12/27/2006, 09:32 AM
What happens when everyone quits smoking? Where do the politicians get their money from then? Do they cut programs or raise taxes?
They'll have to legalize pot then.

TexasLidig8r
12/27/2006, 09:49 AM
It just makes me go ballistic when I hear smokers whine about, "oh, we have rights.. we have the right to smoke.. how dare you put this tax on us.. it's not fair.. it's unconstitutional!"

Dear Dumarse... NO... YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO SMOKE!!!! Smoking is not a constitutional right, a statutory right or a common law right. It is a vice and in many cases, an addiction. As such, you can't even realistically call it a privilege.

If you don't like the added taxes.. here's a novel idea... STOP SMOKING! Use the money you would spend on cancer sticks and pay for treatment! Then, when you have overcome your addiction, take the money you **** away on cancer sticks every year and pay for a good, private school tuition for your kids to make up for all those years they ingested your foul, disgusting second hand smoke!!!!

humphhhh.....

jeremy885
12/27/2006, 11:08 AM
When are they going to pass the fast food tax? I think obesity is as big of a health problem as smoking is.

jk the sooner fan
12/27/2006, 11:09 AM
my obesity at a restaurant has no bearing on your health

whereas second hand smoke does

SoonerInKCMO
12/27/2006, 05:06 PM
my obesity at a restaurant has no bearing on your health

whereas second hand smoke does

Homey rebuttal in 3....2...

RacerX
12/27/2006, 05:30 PM
When are they going to pass the fast food tax? I think obesity is as big of a health problem as smoking is.

Let me know when you get cancer from some second hand calories.

RacerX
12/27/2006, 05:31 PM
Homey rebuttal in 3....2...
heh. He has his own vices.

StoopTroup
12/27/2006, 08:52 PM
I need a cheeseburger....

SCOUT
12/27/2006, 09:23 PM
Let me know when you get cancer from some second hand calories.

Isn't one of the main problems the increased cost of health care due to smoking? If being overweight causes as many health problems, and I believe it does, isn't that analogy still good?

slickdawg
12/27/2006, 10:09 PM
Isn't one of the main problems the increased cost of health care due to smoking? If being overweight causes as many health problems, and I believe it does, isn't that analogy still good?


The main problem for me is I am allergic to cigarette smoke, I don't want to smell it nor inhale it, especially while eating a meal.

If I can hock nasty snotballs on smokers, then fair game - I suffer from their
actions, and they suffer from my reactions to their actions.

Octavian
12/27/2006, 10:17 PM
morality police rawk

jk the sooner fan
12/27/2006, 10:19 PM
Isn't one of the main problems the increased cost of health care due to smoking? If being overweight causes as many health problems, and I believe it does, isn't that analogy still good?

yeah that is a good analogy, however........what single food item do you put a dollar tax on?

i vote for french fries, they are the debil

SCOUT
12/27/2006, 10:24 PM
yeah that is a good analogy, however........what single food item do you put a dollar tax on?

i vote for french fries, they are the debil

I am not actually in favor of taxing any food. However, I think you could use the nutritional information as a line of demarcation.

My true weakness is potato chips.:O

GottaHavePride
12/27/2006, 10:45 PM
It just makes me go ballistic when I hear smokers whine about, "oh, we have rights.. we have the right to smoke.. how dare you put this tax on us.. it's not fair.. it's unconstitutional!"

Dear Dumarse... NO... YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO SMOKE!!!! Smoking is not a constitutional right, a statutory right or a common law right. It is a vice and in many cases, an addiction. As such, you can't even realistically call it a privilege.

If you don't like the added taxes.. here's a novel idea... STOP SMOKING! Use the money you would spend on cancer sticks and pay for treatment! Then, when you have overcome your addiction, take the money you **** away on cancer sticks every year and pay for a good, private school tuition for your kids to make up for all those years they ingested your foul, disgusting second hand smoke!!!!

humphhhh.....

I said the exact same thing a couple of summers ago - I was out on the east coast and the big news story was that NYC jumped their cigarette taxes to around 100% - something like 6 or 7 dollars a pack now. You should have heard the whining, and almost all of it from poor people. Listen, if someone is that poor, maybe they shouldn't be spending the money to support their 2-pack a day habit. That money could buy a decent lunch everyday.

Mongo
12/27/2006, 11:27 PM
I just love how one of our country's founding cash crop has been demonized into a source of social outrage. Smoke and snuff helped build this country. Now people want to knock it?

Yes, "Big Tobacco" pulled some **** that was bad, and down right wrong, but so have many other industries.

Serious question to those who oppose second hand smoke: Give me statistics on what percentage of people that have cancer or other related health issues related to SHS. What percent of the people dip or chew get cancer?

I understand that people dont want to smell smoke, I live with a lunger too(I could rip a post refried beans fart and make her reach for the epi-pen), so I know the allergies.

And if anybody pulls stats from truth.com, your cred is gone.

royalfan5
12/27/2006, 11:34 PM
I view indoor smoking as more of a public nuisance issue than a health one. Being in a smoky place reduces my enjoyment of life, because other people thought they needed to be cool as teenagers. In my opinion, we would be way better off if everybody just switched to skoal, and gave up the whole smoking bit. Chew kicks a cigarettes *** 6 days of the week and twice on sunday, and I wouldn't smell like smoke after going out. Also, I have to probablem taxing the hell out of cigarette smokers. It wouldn't make sense to jack taxes up on non-addictive things now would it?

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2006, 11:37 PM
I just love how one of our country's founding cash crop has been demonized into a source of social outrage. Smoke and snuff helped build this country. Now people want to knock it?

Yes, "Big Tobacco" pulled some **** that was bad, and down right wrong, but so have many other industries.

Serious question to those who oppose second hand smoke: Give me statistics on what percentage of people that have cancer or other related health issues related to SHS. What percent of the people dip or chew get cancer?

I understand that people dont want to smell smoke, I live with a lunger too(I could rip a post refried beans fart and make her reach for the epi-pen), so I know the allergies.

And if anybody pulls stats from truth.com, your cred is gone.
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/secondhandsmoke.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

Mongo
12/27/2006, 11:45 PM
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/secondhandsmoke.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

I appreciate your research, but there is a reason why my user name is "Mongo", please pull out the info.

I, like you, only operate on minimal sleepage.:D

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2006, 11:51 PM
#
Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.4
#
A study found that nonsmokers exposed to environmental smoke were 25 percent more likely to have coronary heart diseases compared to nonsmokers not exposed to smoke.5



The current Surgeon General's Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to second hand smoke. Short exposures to second hand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack.17

That's just off the American Lung Association link. I'm willing to accept that the science supports secondhand smoke being really bad for you.

Mongo
12/28/2006, 12:13 AM
Smoking is bad, I dont disagree. But why does the country harp on this issue and want to separate/tax more/and all out ban smoking versus the biggest killer?


An estimated 248,000 people were injured in crashes where police reported that alcohol was present — an average of one person injured approximately every 2 minutes


The 16,694 fatalities in alcohol-related crashes during 2004 represent an average of one alcohol-related fatality every 31 minutes.


http://www.madd.org/stats/1298

Alcohol kills more people than smoking, yet you dont see the social castration of people who drink. Get ****ed up in a bar, get in your car and drive home. If you dont kill yourself or some innocent person in the process, beat the living **** out of some of your loved ones, and possibly kill them.

Like I said, I dont want to smell your smoke either, unless it is a nice Monte Cristo or Cohiba. But the issue is not really second hand smoke, it is personal preference.

I do not believe anything that comes from the Surgeon General. Mike, as one who will question the standing of the Gov. as yourself, do you think the SG is a viable source?

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 12:18 AM
You don't think that people who drink and drive are socially castrated? There's pretty severe criminal penalties in place for people who get caught doing that, man. Rightfully so, in fact. I don't know the law down there, but you lose your car, your license, and your freedom for a first strike up here.

I'm all for people killing themselves whatever way they want, but once again this is a case of your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. Personally, I'm not a fan of the whole "Increased insurance costs" argument. I'm much more a fan of the "It makes my clothes stink and gives me cancer when I'm not the one who's doing it" argument.

Do I think that the Surgeon General is a reliable source of information? I have no reason to think otherwise unless his or her reports contradict peer-reviewed research. However, for someone who laughs at www.truth.org, you should probably know that MADD isn't really known for using the best research out there.

MamaMia
12/28/2006, 12:28 AM
Cigarette smokers have more health problems. Unless that smoker is uninsured and paying every medical bill in full on his or her own, treating those health problems cost us all in the long run.

Mongo
12/28/2006, 12:34 AM
You don't think that people who drink and drive are socially castrated? There's pretty severe criminal penalties in place for people who get caught doing that, man. Rightfully so, in fact. I don't know the law down there, but you lose your car, your license, and your freedom for a first strike up here.

Do I think that the Surgeon General is a reliable source of information? I have no reason to think otherwise unless his or her reports contradict peer-reviewed research.

What about drunks at home? Yes they are known to beat the mortal **** out of their family, but where is the taxation?

Drunk driving is socially wrong, and is penalized according to the offender. A smoker may dust off 2 packs a day, and not have any affects on them, or known affects on others, yet lets put a blanket tax on all the smokers and dippers? That aint right.

Mike, I aint making excuses for drunk drivers. Lock their asses up on the first offense. I work with a guy who had 9 DWI's before he totalled his truck. Thank God it was a one car accident.

Punishing the masses for a few that have ended up in a bad situation is wrong.

Well, i guess I lost faith in the SG when Jocelyn Elders tried to promote the teaching of shwacking it as a form of restraint from riskier sexual acts. I know from word of mouth(cause I never did it:D ) that even after self releasing, sexual cravings were still there, and more risky sexual acts were wanted.

royalfan5
12/28/2006, 12:36 AM
What about drunks at home? Yes they are known to beat the mortal **** out of their family, but where is the taxation?

Drunk driving is socially wrong, and is penalized according to the offender. A smoker may dust off 2 packs a day, and not have any affects on them, or known affects on others, yet lets put a blanket tax on all the smokers and dippers? That aint right.

Mike, I aint making excuses for drunk drivers. Lock their asses up on the first offense. I work with a guy who had 9 DWI's before he totalled his truck. Thank God it was a one car accident.

Punishing the masses for a few that have ended up in a bad situation is wrong.

Well, i guess I lost faith in the SG when Jocelyn Elders tried to promote the teaching of shwacking it as a form of restraint from riskier sexual acts. I know from word of mouth(cause I never did it:D ) that even after self releasing, sexual cravings were still there, and more risky sexual acts were wanted.
Most places tax the **** out of alcohol.

Blue
12/28/2006, 12:37 AM
Cigarette smokers have more health problems. Unless that smoker is uninsured and paying every medical bill in full on his or her own, treating those health problems cost us all in the long run.

So does being a fatass. So does being a dumbass.

Mongo
12/28/2006, 12:38 AM
Most places tax the **** out of alcohol.

Yes, but the tax has not increased the dramatic way tobacco has. My bottle of James Beam has not raised that much in ten years.

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2006, 12:38 AM
Well, for one, someone who beats the mortal **** out of their family is also subject to rather major criminal penalties. For two, alcohol is pretty severely taxed depending on jurisdiction. In fact, there's a reason it's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. We've tried to completely outlaw alcohol in the past-this, to me, seems like a more reasonable attempt at attacking the economic underpinnings of a vice.

Mongo
12/28/2006, 12:44 AM
Well, for one, someone who beats the mortal **** out of their family is also subject to rather major criminal penalties. For two, alcohol is pretty severely taxed depending on jurisdiction. In fact, there's a reason it's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. We've tried to completely outlaw alcohol in the past-this, to me, seems like a more reasonable attempt at attacking the economic underpinnings of a vice.

Out of those three, which is socially more repulsive? Which one endures the most tax increases per year?

I go by a gun, I know I am gonna pay some form of tax, like wise for booze and tobacco. But tobacco is the one, nation wide, that suffers from the harshest taxation due to social stigma, not statistics.

I need a dip.:D

Mongo
12/28/2006, 12:57 AM
Cigarette smokers have more health problems. Unless that smoker is uninsured and paying every medical bill in full on his or her own, treating those health problems cost us all in the long run.

I disagree.


Cost of diabetes in the United States, 2002

Total (direct and indirect): $132 billion


and, this from the most leftist college in the US, so you know the numbers are just a bit inflated.:)
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/1998/0916/smoking.html

Diabeetis costs more than a vice disease. How many of those that suffer from large-mammalis diabeetis raise your health care costs?

MamaMia
12/28/2006, 03:20 AM
Two wrongs don't make a right.

mrowl
12/28/2006, 06:50 AM
why not tax the **** out of the dumbasses that continue to trash their body? its makes perfect sense. 98% of them are still to stupid to quit, even it it was $20 a pack.

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2006, 07:18 AM
i agree that alcohol is a MAJOR problem in this country

however, every cigarette smoker has a health risk...and can be a risk to somebody else

not EVERY drinker can be, or is

Okieflyer
12/28/2006, 08:23 AM
You know if we rise the tax too high, it would just cause more "back alley" smoking. It's a smokers right to have black lungs if they choose. It's their body.