Good Morning...Kwanzaa begins.

[Okla-homey]

December 26, 1966...The first "Kwanzaa"

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8125/kflogot3jg.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Forty years ago today, the first day of the first "Kwanzaa" is celebrated in Los Angeles under the direction of Maulana "Ron" Karenga, the chair of Black Studies at California State University at Long Beach. Read on to learn about this uniquely North American occasion celebrated mostly by folks of African descent.

The seven-day holiday, was invented and designed by Dr. Karenga as a celebration of African-American family, community, and culture.

Karenga was born on a chicken farm in Parsonsburg, Maryland in 1941, the 14th child of a Baptist minister. His parents named him Ronald Everett. He moved to California in the late 1950s to attend Los Angeles City College, where he became the first black president of the student body.

He was admitted to University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) as part of a federal program for students who had dropped out of high school, and received his Master's in political science and African studies.

At the beginning of the 1960s, Ron Everett met Malcolm X and began to embrace Black nationalism. Sometime during this period he adopted the name Karenga he now bears.

Following the Watts riots in 1965, Karenga interrupted his doctoral studies at UCLA and joined the Black Power movement. During this time he took the title "maulana," Swahili for "master teacher." He formed "United Slaves," which later evolved into the "Us Organization," an outspoken Black nationalist group.

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Ron Karenga, Creator of "Kwanzaa"

In 1969, the Us Organization and the Black Panthers disagreed over who should head the new Afro-American Studies Center at UCLA. According to a Los Angeles Times article, Karenga and his supporters backed one candidate, the Panthers another.

The Black Student Union set up a coalition to try to bring peace between the groups, which ended when Us members George P. & Larry Joseph Stiner shot dead two members of the Black Panthers, John Jerome Huggins and Alprentice "Bunchy" Carter. The killing was dismissed by UCLA chancellor Charles E. Young as an unrelated incident.

In 1971 Ron Karenga, Louis Smith, and Luz Maria Tamayo were convicted of felonious assault and false imprisonment for assaulting and torturing two women from the "United Slaves," Deborah Jones & Gail Davis.

In 1975, Ron Karenga was released from California State Prison, with newly adopted views on Marxism, and re-established the "Us" organization under a new structure.

You can learn more about the modern "Us Organization" here:
http://www.us-organization.org/

Two years later, in 1977, he formulated a set of principles called Kawaida, a Swahili term for tradition and reason. Kwanzaa is an adjunct of Kawaida. Karenga called on African-Americans to adopt his secular humanism and reject religious practices as "mythical."

Inspired by Africa's harvest celebrations, he decided to develop a non-religious holiday that would stress the importance of family and community while giving African Americans an opportunity to explore their African identities.

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Ron Karenga blended aspects of several different African celebrations, such as those of the Ashanti and those of the Zulu, to form the basis of "Kwanzaa. The name "Kwanzaa" is derived from the phrase matunda ya kwanza, which means "first fruits" in Swahili.

Like other holidays, individuals celebrate "Kwanzaa" in their own way, but celebrations often include songs and dances, African drums, storytelling, poetry readings, and a large traditional meal. On each of the seven nights, the family gathers and a child lights one of the candles on the "kinara," or candleholder, then one of the seven principles is discussed.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5383/kwanzaa20family3pv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The principles, called the "Nguzo Saba," are values of African culture that Ron Karenga believed contributed to building and reinforcing community among African Americans. These values include unity, self-determination, collective work and responsibility, economic cooperation, purpose, creativity, and faith. An African feast, called a "Karamu," is held on December 31.

Central to Karenga's doctrine are the "Nguzu Saba, the Seven Principles of Blackness," which are reinforced during the seven days of "Kwanzaa:"


Umoja (unity) – To strive for and maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.

Kujichagulia (self-determination) – To define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves, and speak for ourselves.

Ujima (collective work and responsibility) – To build and maintain our community together and make our brother's and sister's problems our problems and to solve them together.

Ujamaa (cooperative economics) – To build and maintain our own stores, shops and other businesses and to profit from them together.

Nia (purpose) – To make our collective vocation the building and development of our community in order to restore our people to their traditional greatness.

Kuumba (creativity) – To do always as much as we can, in the way we can, in order to leave our community more beautiful and beneficial than we inherited it.

Imani (faith) – To believe with all our heart in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders and the righteousness and victory of our struggle.

Initially, "Kwanzaa" proceeded from Karenga’s hostility toward Western religion, which, he wrote in his 1980 book, "Kawaida Theory," denies and diminishes human worth, capacity, potential and achievement. In Christian and Jewish mythology, humans are born in sin, cursed with mythical ancestors who’ve sinned and brought the wrath of an angry God on every generation’s head. He similarly opposed belief in God and other spooks who threaten us if we don’t worship them and demand we turn over our destiny and daily lives.

Since Karenga started it, "Kwanzaa" has gained millions of mainstream adherents in the United States and Canada, and Karenga has altered its justification and softened his stance against religion so as not to alienate practicing Christians: Kwanzaa was not created to give people an alternative to their own religion or religious holiday, he wrote in "Kwanzaa: A Celebration of Family, Community, and Culture," published in 1997.

Bottomline: Yep, it's a fairly recent thing. It has evolved over time like all holiday celebrations, over 13 million celebrate it in one form or another in North America and its positive, so, Happy Kwanzaa!

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/839/insane7zo0xx.jpg

[SoonerInKCMO]

I down with the adoption of secular humanism over fairy tales... that whole black separatist thing is wack though.


:pop:

[C&CDean]

Meh. Squared.

[Widescreen]

Yep, it's a fairly recent thing. It has evolved over time like all holiday celebrations, over 13 million celebrate it in one form or another in North America and its positive, so, Happy Kwanzaa!

I guess it depends on whether its celebrated as intended or not. I don't view "holidays" focused on racism, anti-americanism and communism as positive.

[Okla-homey]

I guess it depends on whether its celebrated as intended or not. I don't view "holidays" focused on racism, anti-americanism and communism as positive.

Okay, it's relatively positive. Anyway, I'm generally in favor of self-reliance. That's one of the priniciples of Kwanzaa, and encouraging folks to stand on their own two feet is a good thing.

[TexasLidig8r]

Sounds like the African-American version of Festivus.

[Okla-homey]

Sounds like the African-American version of Festivus.

Very astute observation counselor.

[WILBURJIM]

Sounds like the African-American version of Festivus.
Festivus, was an obvious, and hilarious parody of Kwanzaa.

[SoonerDood]

Sounds like the African-American version of Festivus.
and now the Airing of Grievances, followed by The Feats of Strength!

[ChickSoonerFan]

So..Festivus is not real...right? Just made up..for the show..right? Or am I wrong?

[Petro-Sooner]

Karenga called on African-Americans to adopt his secular humanism and reject religious practices as "mythical."

WOW.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Sounds like the African-American version of Festivus.

heh!

[Petro-Sooner]

I dont celebrate the Lords birth. I celebrate being black.

Good luck with that.

[TexasLidig8r]

and now the Airing of Grievances, followed by The Feats of Strength!

Who's got the pole?

[Frozen Sooner]

Jeez, I'm a secular humanist and even I think Kwanzaa is crap.

I mean, I'm down with the whole celebrating self-reliance and all, but I've always thought (regardless of what the dude says) that Kwanzaa was a way to still celebrate Christmas while making a point that you're not a Christian.

[Okla-homey]

:les: I REFUSE TO BE THE S.O. APOLOGIST FOR KWANZAA!

Just thought I'd share some background on its origins...in case anyone had wondered/fantasized that it had some sort of legitimate historical connection to African culture.

nevermind.

You people are sure touchy about Kwanzaa.;)

[King Crimson]

FWIW: cooperative economics does not equal communism. the elimination of private property is "communism". cooperative economics is something that happens everyday not only in this society (:networking") and is the social origins of the so-called freemarket and mercantile capitalism in the 18th century. and in many other socieites, anthropologically speaking.

in this particular instance, it's aim is to create sustainable enterprise in black american localities.

that said, de facto "instant" holidays are kind of silly no matter their premises.

[Petro-Sooner]

I had actually kinda wondered what is was about.

Now I know.

[Frozen Sooner]

Whatever Homey. We know you're sitting there with your Kente cloth scarf.

[RacerX]

Don't bug homey whilst he strives for unity.

[VeeJay]

Anybody but me worship the Almighty Dollar?

[Widescreen]

Anybody but me worship the Almighty Dollar?
Pfft. Every year your god gets a bit less powerful. My bills are a testament to that.

[Okla-homey]

Don't bug homey whilst he strives for unity.

Why can't we all just get along?

dammit.;)

[Jerk]

Where do secular humanists believe rights come from?

Like, your right to live, your right to pursue happiness, your right to defend your life and property, freedom of expression, etc...

I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start a debate; I really don't know, but I'd like to know this for future reference. Thanks.

[Frozen Sooner]

Where do secular humanists believe rights come from?

Like, your right to live, your right to pursue happiness, your right to defend your life and property, freedom of expression, etc...

I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start a debate; I really don't know, but I'd like to know this for future reference. Thanks.

It's a fair question.

I don't presume to speak for all secular humanists, but it's always been belief that human rights are a necessary for the advancement of the race, so as such are logical corollaries to humanism.

Humanism is the the belief in the dignity and value of all people. The rights of man necessarily derive from this belief. It's meaningless to talk about people having value without the right to the fruits of their labor, or the right to express their beliefs, or whatever.

[Widescreen]

Interesting. So for the secular humanist, what makes humanity more important than apes, etc.? Or do secular humanists view humans on par with the animal world?

[Jerk]

ty frozen

[Frozen Sooner]

ty frozen

You're welcome. It's a question that comes up every so often.

[Frozen Sooner]

Interesting. So for the secular humanist, what makes humanity more important than apes, etc.?

The ability to discern right from wrong.


Or do secular humanists view humans on par with the animal world?

A humanist claiming that animals are on a par with humans in any but an evolutionary sense (i.e. that humans are a subset of the set "animals") would by definition not be a humanist. There's no contradiction in claiming that animals have rights, mind you, but a humanist, by defnition, believes in the advancement and flourishment of humanity.

[Widescreen]

Got it. Thanks.

[Frozen Sooner]

You're welcome. It was also a legitimate question.

[Scott D]

I sometimes wonder what most of you would feel or believe if your ancestors were kidnapped from their homeland, brought across an ocean and had their customs, culture, and identity beaten out of them over time.

[TUSooner]

I'm just a bit skeptical about anyone who renames himself "master teacher." That seems like the kind of name you need to have bestowed upon you by others. But I'm also pretty skeptical about anybody who has the title "master teacher" bestowed upon him by others. :rolleyes:

[lexsooner]

I sometimes wonder what most of you would feel or believe if your ancestors were kidnapped from their homeland, brought across an ocean and had their customs, culture, and identity beaten out of them over time.

Scott, a lot of folks have such empathy, but you will not find too much of it on this board. I predict many responses to your post above will be references to how fellow Africans were complicit in the slave trade, etc. etc. Just watch.

[Frozen Sooner]

I sometimes wonder what most of you would feel or believe if your ancestors were kidnapped from their homeland, brought across an ocean and had their customs, culture, and identity beaten out of them over time.

Legitimately pretty bad about it. If someone were to attempt to return to the roots of their culture and research actual African tradition and live their life according to one of those philisophical principles, I'd honor that.

It just seems to me that this particular holiday was set up to create an artificial difference.

[OhU1]

Legitimately pretty bad about it. If someone were to attempt to return to the roots of their culture and research actual African tradition and live their life according to one of those philisophical principles, I'd honor that.

It just seems to me that this particular holiday was set up to create an artificial difference.

Yup. There was a national editorial in the Norman Transcript about how white folks in "this day and age of religious intolerance" distrusted Kwanza. How ironic since it is a made up secular holiday by a Black Panther. Personally I could care less if you dance around the Festivus pole or wear an African cap and light candles. We are all free in this country to celebrate or not celebrate as we see fit. The editorial implies that as a white guy I somehow oppress Kwanza celebrants by not caring about it. Guilty - I could care less.

What good is a Holiday (Holy Day, Christmas, X-Mas) if we cannot politicize it or better yet sow some racial controversy and division from it? :rolleyes:

[Widescreen]

I sometimes wonder what most of you would feel or believe if your ancestors were kidnapped from their homeland, brought across an ocean and had their customs, culture, and identity beaten out of them over time.
You make a valid point. However, I'm a firm believer in integrating with American culture. Kwanzaa seems polarizing to me - designed to set one group apart from everyone else at the expense of Americanism. Most of my ancestors came from Ireland (one of the primary ones came here to escape the law :O) However, the only Irish cultural thing I observe is St. Patrick's Day and I don't celebrate it any more than anyone else. I'm an American, not an Irish-American. It's difficult to say how I'd feel if I was a member of a minority group, but I'd like to think I'd still view myself as an American first. I don't believe someone can celebrate Kwanzaa the way Karenga intended and still be integrated into American culture.

[King Crimson]

in western constitutional democracies, the concept of "rights" comes from the notion of the social contract. to suggest that historically the concept comes from God is a bit suspect, given the vast social inequalities (the absence of rights) that were legitimized in the name of the Church or feudal land ownership (aristocracy).....to some degree, the so-called Enlightenment and the Protestant reformation go hand in hand on this. egalitarianism, social duties, constiutional government, the rule of law, etc.

[Scott D]

You make a valid point. However, I'm a firm believer in integrating with American culture. Kwanzaa seems polarizing to me - designed to set one group apart from everyone else at the expense of Americanism. Most of my ancestors came from Ireland (one of the primary ones came here to escape the law :O) However, the only Irish cultural thing I observe is St. Patrick's Day and I don't celebrate it any more than anyone else. I'm an American, not an Irish-American. It's difficult to say how I'd feel if I was a member of a minority group, but I'd like to think I'd still view myself as an American first. I don't believe someone can celebrate Kwanzaa the way Karenga intended and still be integrated into American culture.

I would counter your argument with pointing out how many American traditions are taken from 'old world traditions' that were brought here by immigrants. I would also point out that integrating in American society only goes so far, because people feel a need to keep some attachment to a 'parent-culture'. In my view Kwanzaa is no different than Chinese New Year in that regard. However, nobody goes around calling that a farce when it's celebrated by Chinese-Americans every year, I mean isn't it polarizing? What about when Mexicans and possibly other Hispanics celebrate Cinco de Mayo? That'd be polarizing also. Hell the way Fat Tuesday is celebrated in Michigan it's polarizing via Polish traditions. None of those immigrants had any and every aspect of identity ripped from them the way that Africans did when they were brought here.

I'd reitierate that the difference between something like St. Patrick's Day and Kwanzaa is the fact that one holiday is an attempt to make a reconnection with a culture that they were severed from in the past. Hell, most people even misinterpret the reason the Black Panthers were founded.

[jk the sooner fan]

i dont think i've ever seen the chinese new year included in school curriculum

the American Indian ......in my opinion, as a people, have been mistreated far worse than the africans ever were

please dont take offense to that, its just how i feel

and we dont see any indian version of kwanzaa........at least not that i'm aware of

[Jerk]

in western constitutional democracies, the concept of "rights" comes from the notion of the social contract. to suggest that historically the concept comes from God is a bit suspect, given the vast social inequalities (the absence of rights) that were legitimized in the name of the Church or feudal land ownership (aristocracy).....to some degree, the so-called Enlightenment and the Protestant reformation go hand in hand on this. egalitarianism, social duties, constiutional government, the rule of law, etc.

Problem is, we're not a democracy, we're a republic. And we are not those old fuedel kingdoms, either.

The Declaration of Independence spells out very clearly where rights come from, and it's not from the mob. You see, we were different in that we stated that rights came from God, then to the people, then to the government. The old fuedel kingdoms of Europe believed that power and rights came from God, then to the King, and last, to the people. Now we are going to erase God and say that power and rights come from the people, then to government. That's lovely, but in this scenario, how long does it take for this to get reversed?

Rights that come from God are absolute. Those that come from man or government can change on a whim.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[King Crimson]

Problem is, we're not a democracy, we're a republic. And we are not those old fuedel kingdoms, either.

The Declaration of Independence spells out very clearly where rights come from, and it's not from the mob. You see, we were different in that we stated that rights came from God, then to the people, then to the government. The old fuedel kingdoms of Europe believed that power and rights came from God, then to the King, and last, to the people. Now we are going to erase God and say that power and rights come from the people, then to government. That's lovely, but in this scenario, how long does it take for this to get reversed?

Rights that come from God are absolute. Those that come from man or government can change on a whim.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


but, listen:

1. in terms of western constitutional democracies or republics whichever you prefer....the US constitution is one of the most "democratic"--so this "we're a republic" not a democracy thing is generally a way out of confronting some unpleasantries about our own government--as in the PFNAC stuff.

2. the Declaration of rights was written by human beings, it is not a sacred text......

3. we weren't that different. England and France had parliamentary systems that derived "rights" and political particiaption from the people....before we did.

4. there's far more evidence for the use of God to "reverse" power from the people to the state, to administer state power to the people..... i'd say.

5. we don't have to agree.

[Jerk]

I agree with #5 and I'll give you #4 too.

The natural progression for government is to enslave us. This is why we need a revolution every so often, right?

[King Crimson]

i don't know about "revolution"--i think there are a lot of things we as Americans might want to re-think if we want if we want governance that doesn't perceive the disconnect between the will of the people and foreign policy as unproblematic. or, at very least, want government minimized in the name of freedom.

i vote libertarian alot. and i believe in civil liberties.

[Jerk]

I didn't mean revolution, like, kill em all. I mean, like 1994, or even 2006, when those in power get thrown out.

Over 100 million people were murdered by their own government during the 20th century. I think we'd be niave to believe it could never happen here. That probably makes me an extremists, but that's fine.

[Widescreen]

However, nobody goes around calling that a farce when it's celebrated by Chinese-Americans every year, I mean isn't it polarizing? What about when Mexicans and possibly other Hispanics celebrate Cinco de Mayo? That'd be polarizing also.
None of those things seem to me to be overtly anti-American. If Mecha had founded Cinco de Mayo with 7 principles that are segregationalist in nature and against American culture, I'd feel the same way.

[Scott D]

None of those things seem to me to be overtly anti-American. If Mecha had founded Cinco de Mayo with 7 principles that are segregationalist in nature and against American culture, I'd feel the same way.

Actually I'm failing to see how it's overtly anti-American. Because in it's initial interpretation, it shuns religion and generally tries to have no connection with religion? Because the stance on that has softened to fit closer with Western religions. Is it because not everyone celebrates it even though they can? I fail to see how that's overtly anti-American. The seven principles, are probably more American than principles than most Americans hold to be values.

What parents don't teach their children to unite as family, teach them self-determination, to be responsible business people, have a purpose in life, to be creative and make the world a better place, and have faith in each other?

If those seven principles are so anti-American then that would make any decent parent anti-American for teaching their children values.

To take it a step further, the spirit of Kwanzaa is no different than any other attempt by Black leadership to attempt to find a way to motivate the Black community to be more self sufficient and work together to advance in overall 'status' in this country. Isn't that something that people have been in a roundabout way complaining about (ie...comments on welfare, snarky remarks about nawlins, houston, or pretty much any inner city area)?

[Widescreen]

Well, you've set me straight. I think I'll celebrate Kwanzaa in its "softened" form. ;)

BTW, Scott. Do you celebrate Kwanzaa, and if so, is it in the original intent or the "softened" variety?

[Jerk]

I'm sure there'd be no problems if a bunch of white people got together and created their own little white holiday complete with "7 points of anglo-saxon unity" and other such bullsh*t.

The fkn' academic PC left are the biggest gawdamned hypocrites on planet earth.

[Scott D]

Well, you've set me straight. I think I'll celebrate Kwanzaa in its "softened" form. ;)

BTW, Scott. Do you celebrate Kwanzaa, and if so, is it in the original intent or the "softened" variety?

no, I don't. Then again, I'm no fan of Christmas..er excuse me....Retailmas in it's current incarnation either. I could point out that eating Turkey at Thanksgiving is another one pulled over on everyone by a few enterprizing butchers during the Great Depression. The original traditional dish was deer meat, not turkey.

People could probably for one way or another find a fault that invalidates most holidays.

[Scott D]

I'm sure there'd be no problems if a bunch of white people got together and created their own little white holiday complete with "7 points of anglo-saxon unity" and other such bullsh*t.

The fkn' academic PC left are the biggest gawdamned hypocrites on planet earth.

technically Jerk, one could argue "President's Day", "Veterans Day", "Easter", "Thanksgiving", "Columbus Day", and "Christmas" fit that category to some degree.

The left has little or nothing to do with the presentation of this. Then again, with this board it probably doesn't matter, I mean it not being rooted in the Baptist demonination and all. :rolleyes:

[Widescreen]

I mean it not being rooted in the Baptist demonination and all.
There you go again. Demonizing baptists.

[BeetDigger]

... "Columbus Day"...


Your post made me think of Quiz Show, it was on Showtime the other day.

"We call them Indians because some white guy got lost." Herb Stempel

[Frozen Sooner]

Dale Gribble: "John Redcorn, do your people celebrate Thanksgiving?"
John Redcorn: "We did. Once."

[Pricetag]

I think another reason people are skeptical of Kwanzaa is that it was "made up" in the current generation. Kinda like Scientology--stuff has more credibility when it was around before we were.

[BeetDigger]

I think another reason people are skeptical of Kwanzaa is that it was "made up" in the current generation. Kinda like Scientology--stuff has more credibility when it was around before we were.



So what you are saying is that in another generation, it will be old hat.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about Scientology, Hollywood is doing it's best to keep the general public from taking it serious.

[C&CDean]

I sometimes wonder what most of you would feel or believe if your ancestors were kidnapped from their homeland, brought across an ocean and had their customs, culture, and identity beaten out of them over time.

Or what we'd feel like if our ancestors chiefs sold us to the slave traders? - which is what pretty much happened pretty much all the time. Back in the day. You know, decades and decades before you or your daddy or your grandaddy was around, and ditto for me.

Here's my thought on all this bull****:

If we're ever even gonna have a shot at eliminating racism from the world, we've got to stop segregation. This includes self-segregation. Black month, Kwanzaa, black student club, african studies, etc. pretty much are blatant forms of self-segregation that border on racism. We don't have white power day (and those that do are recognized as ****ing idiots), so if we're ever gonna truly be "equal" we need to stop all the segregation.

How about "Americans Day?" We'll all dance an Irish jig, do a German polka, sing some righteous negro spirituals, do a Mexican hat dance, and rock to some muh****in' blues. That'd work for me.

[jk the sooner fan]

totally agree with dean......there's also that sense of entitlement that every person has, regardless of skin color or national origin.....it needs to go away, quickly

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Or what we'd feel like if our ancestors chiefs sold us to the slave traders? - which is what pretty much happened pretty much all the time. Back in the day. You know, decades and decades before you or your daddy or your grandaddy was around, and ditto for me.

Here's my thought on all this bull****:

If we're ever even gonna have a shot at eliminating racism from the world, we've got to stop segregation. This includes self-segregation. Black month, Kwanzaa, black student club, african studies, etc. pretty much are blatant forms of self-segregation that border on racism. We don't have white power day (and those that do are recognized as ****ing idiots), so if we're ever gonna truly be "equal" we need to stop all the segregation.

How about "Americans Day?" We'll all dance an Irish jig, do a German polka, sing some righteous negro spirituals, do a Mexican hat dance, and rock to some muh****in' blues. That'd work for me.So, THAT'S how you got to be a big honcho, admin and all that!!!

[Scott D]

Or what we'd feel like if our ancestors chiefs sold us to the slave traders? - which is what pretty much happened pretty much all the time. Back in the day. You know, decades and decades before you or your daddy or your grandaddy was around, and ditto for me.

Here's my thought on all this bull****:

If we're ever even gonna have a shot at eliminating racism from the world, we've got to stop segregation. This includes self-segregation. Black month, Kwanzaa, black student club, african studies, etc. pretty much are blatant forms of self-segregation that border on racism. We don't have white power day (and those that do are recognized as ****ing idiots), so if we're ever gonna truly be "equal" we need to stop all the segregation.

How about "Americans Day?" We'll all dance an Irish jig, do a German polka, sing some righteous negro spirituals, do a Mexican hat dance, and rock to some muh****in' blues. That'd work for me.

what was I thinking...let's all go back to being dismissive of everything that doesn't directly involve us.

[C&CDean]

what was I thinking...let's all go back to being dismissive of everything that doesn't directly involve us.

Huh? Wah?

OK Scott, I give up. If it'll make you feel more equal, how about we take away German/English/Chippewa/hillbilly month? That way it won't directly involve me. What. Ever.

I invite you to join me in whatever it is I do. I never have a need to have a caucasians month, or a white student club. Oh I know you'll say it's because every day is caucasian day, but that schtick ain't cutting it anymore. Seriously.

[Scott D]

Huh? Wah?

OK Scott, I give up. If it'll make you feel more equal, how about we take away German/English/Chippewa/hillbilly month? That way it won't directly involve me. What. Ever.

I invite you to join me in whatever it is I do. I never have a need to have a caucasians month, or a white student club. Oh I know you'll say it's because every day is caucasian day, but that schtick ain't cutting it anymore. Seriously.

now now Dean, don't go getting your britches in a bunch. We're here to mock and ridicule things that we don't do.

[C&CDean]

Oh they ain't in a bunch.

I do have to tell a semi-funny story from my youth though. In about 2nd grade our first homework assignment was to go home and ask our parents our nationality and then report it back to the class the next day.

So, I go home and mom is cooking supper. I go "mom, what am I?" She says "english, irish, ****** and dog." So I go to school the next day and report that I'm "english, irish, ******, and dog." The teacher called my mom and asked her what's up with that. I got a whoopin' like you wouldn't believe when I got home. My mom said "you didn't tell me it was for school."

Just a hint my friend. Start **** that includes me. When you exclude me, you're discriminating against me. When you're excluding me because I'm white, you're a racist. TIA.

[Scott D]

can't I just exclude you because well....I want to?

[jk the sooner fan]

can't I just exclude you because well....I want to?

absolutely, as long as the race card isnt played when "you're" excluded for the same reason

[Scott D]

absolutely, as long as the race card isnt played when "you're" excluded for the same reason

sir, this about excluding Dean...any excluding of you must be taken up with Beano. :)

[jk the sooner fan]

i'm not allowed to bait........err, take up anything with beano anymore