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View Full Version : This gang-banger "is a good kid" according to momma



Jerk
12/25/2006, 07:07 AM
AP/ Fox News

PORT ARTHUR, Texas — In the middle of Joshua Bush's forehead, two inches above his eyes, lies the evidence that prosecutors say could send the teenager to prison for attempted murder: a 9 mm bullet, lodged just under the skin.

Prosecutors say it will prove that Bush, 17, tried to kill the owner of a used-car lot after a robbery in July. And they have obtained a search warrant to extract the slug.

But Bush and his lawyer are fighting the removal, in a legal and medical oddity that raises questions about patient privacy and how far the government can go to solve crimes without running afoul of the constitutional protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.

"It's unfortunate this arguably important piece of evidence is in a place where it can't be easily retrieved," said Seth Chandler, a professor at the University of Houston Law Center. "You have to balance our desire to convict the guilty against the government not poking around our bodies on a supposition."

Investigators say that Bush was part of a group of gang members who broke into a used car lot and tried to steal vehicles. According to police, Bush tried to shoot businessman Alan Olive, and when Olive returned fire, a bullet struck the teenager and borrowed into the soft, fatty tissue of his forehead.

Prosecutor Ramon Rodriguez said gang members who took part in the robbery identified Bush as one of those involved. When he was questioned about a week later, Bush admitted taking part in the robbery but not the shooting, police said.

"The officers noticed the guy looks like hell. One of his eyes is black and he has a big old knot on his forehead," Rodriguez said. "He tells police he got hurt playing basketball."

A few days later, Bush went to the hospital and told doctors he had been hit by a stray bullet as he sat on a couch in an apartment.

"Officers started putting events together," Rodriguez said.

A judge took the unusual step of issuing a search warrant to retrieve the bullet from Bush's head in October. But a Beaumont doctor determined that small pieces of bone were growing around the slug, and he did not have the proper tools in the emergency room to do it. The doctor said that removal would require surgery under general anesthesia and that no operating rooms were available.

Police then obtained a second search warrant and scheduled the operation for last week at the University of Texas Medical Branch hospital in Galveston. It was postponed again, however, after the hospital decided not to participate for reasons it would not discuss.

Prosecutors said they continue to look for a doctor or hospital willing to remove the bullet.

All sides agree that removing the bullet would not be life-threatening. But Bush's family and attorney say it would be a violation of the teenager's civil rights and set a dangerous precedent.

"When the medical profession divorces itself from its own responsibility and makes itself an arm of the state, it's a dangerous path," said Rife Kimler, Bush's lawyer.

The used car lot owner, Olive, told police that after officers had left the scene following the robbery and he began cleaning up, a man appeared in a nearby alley and threatened to kill him if he helped authorities in their investigation. The man fired at Olive and a shootout followed.

"I just can't believe I missed him at that distance," Olive, a competitive pistol shooter, said in court papers. Olive told authorities he never saw the man's face in the dark alley.

Bush is in jail on charges related to the robbery, but not the shooting.

Tammie Bush, the teen's mother, disputed allegations her son is a gang member.

"We know he's not a criminal," she said. "He's a good kid."

Dr. Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, predicted Bush's rights as a patient will trump the state's desire to get the bullet, and said authorities might have a hard time finding someone willing to extract the slug.

"It truly is a moral quandary," Caplan said. "Doctors are caught between wanting to help solve crimes and their responsibility to patients' rights to refuse a procedure."

Widescreen
12/25/2006, 10:45 AM
I wonder how they know he shot at the car lot guy? Seems circumstantial.

WILBURJIM
12/25/2006, 11:27 AM
Alan Olive needs to buy a bigger gun.

AlbqSooner
12/25/2006, 11:43 AM
This is why I prefer a .45 to a 9mm.

Vaevictis
12/26/2006, 12:18 AM
If they *really* wanted to, my bet is that they could do the necessary forensics (groove comparison? comparison of the grooves created by the rifling is the usual method, is it not?) using some sort of imaging technology.

It's probably just easier on the cops to pull it out of his skull, which is why they're going that route.

I don't know that the government being able to require you to have a major procedure (ie, general anesthesia) for evidence gathering purposes is a good idea, especially when as I say, I suspect with some effort, the same effect could be achieved without it.

1stTimeCaller
12/26/2006, 12:27 AM
is this really different from the police obtaining a sperm sample from a rape suspect?

OUAndy1807
12/26/2006, 12:30 AM
doesn't the fact that the dude doesn't want the bullet pulled out of his head kind of show that there is a connection? I mean, all medical authorities that have looked at it agree it's not a risk (according to the article), so why else wouldn't you want that thing out of there?

Vaevictis
12/26/2006, 12:30 AM
You don't undergo general anesthesia for a sperm sample. General can be fatal if anything goes wrong. Whacking off usually isn't.

1stTimeCaller
12/26/2006, 12:33 AM
so that's the line. If it involves GA then the police can't get anything out of your body but if they can get it w/o GA then it's fair game?

Vaevictis
12/26/2006, 12:36 AM
so that's the line. If it involves GA then the police can't get anything out of your body but if they can get it w/o GA then it's fair game?

Well, I'd say that if it's pretty clear cut that there's absolutely no way that serious damage can be done to you, then with a warrant, sure.

If it's a possibility, it gets murkier. I think that for sure that the government should have to exhaust all other options before it's even considered... which is why I mentioned that I bet that there are other ways to get the necessary evidence in this case.

If there are absolutely no other options, then you have to balance the risk against the reward, and I guess I can live with it as long as there's judicial oversight.

1stTimeCaller
12/26/2006, 12:40 AM
but as you said, there is always the possibility of something going wrong when you're under GA.

There have been 2 warrants issued for this bullet. Is that enough judicial oversight?

I still cannot see how the bullet didn't turn his head into a cannoe. That kid must have a thick head.

Vaevictis
12/26/2006, 12:45 AM
What kind of forensics are they intending to do? Is it a rifling groove test? Because if it is, I bet that there are imaging technologies that can provide them with a 3D model of the bullet to compare with a bullet fired from the original firearm; is it a gunpowder test of some kind? Could that not be done with some sort of sampling (biopsy style)?

I guess I don't have a problem with it if it's the absolute last option, AND it has judicial oversight. I'm just questioning whether they're really using it as the last option.

1stTimeCaller
12/26/2006, 12:47 AM
You watch a lot of CSI: Miami don't you? ;)

I understand your point and I do agree with you but at some point don't you have to see what 3D modeling costs vs. digging that puppy out?

Vaevictis
12/26/2006, 12:51 AM
You watch a lot of CSI: Miami don't you? ;)

Nope. I know a lot of people with interesting backgrounds ;)


I understand your point and I do agree with you but at some point don't you have to see what 3D modeling costs vs. digging that puppy out?

I don't think that a suspect should have to bear the burden of going under general and having surgery just so Uncle Sam can save a buck.

(OTOH, they should also make it clear to the kid that if he gets convicted in spite of his refusal to have it removed, there's no ****ing way Uncle Sam is going to pay to have it removed post-conviction.)

BajaOklahoma
12/26/2006, 04:52 AM
My understanding is that the removal of the bullet could be done under a local under normal circumstances, but his lack of cooperation makes it a more dangerous option than using GA.