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View Full Version : Knicks-Nuggets Brawl Tonight



tulsaoilerfan
12/16/2006, 11:45 PM
Pretty sad when the NBA has better fights than the NHL;all 10 players on the court were ejected including Najera, but he never did anything from the clips i saw. :eek:

Scott D
12/17/2006, 12:33 AM
he was cited for being MWOTC

colleyvillesooner
12/17/2006, 03:03 AM
Mexican With Out The Cajones? ;)

colleyvillesooner
12/17/2006, 03:05 AM
It's becoming more and more apparent why the league used the Refs to elevate Wade to Superstar status in the Finals. I mean everybody shoots 3x their normal FT's in the finals, right? ;)

Gotta have a #2 to Lebron and Melo is too much of a thug.

:D

Fraggle145
12/17/2006, 04:37 AM
This is why basketball should be killed... T. H. U. G. S. everyone in the NBA could play football for "Da U." What a fukin joke. does anyone care about the NBA anymore? between them and hockey I dont know which has a more worthless less intelligent fanbase... maybe the WWE, NASCAR? Pro sports just suck a$$, cry me a fukin river he was gonna dunk on you again, maybe if you would have, oh I dont know... STOPPED HIM? God I hate millionaire crybabies, take my life for a half day...

8timechamps
12/17/2006, 05:17 AM
Okay, as a long time Denver fan (and resident), I feel compelled to stand up for Carmello, as it relates to the "Thug" title. Did he make a mistake tonight? Sure. He was way out of line, and should be (and will be) punished for it.

As for Melo being a Thug, what are you basing that on? Tonights events? Having seen a lot of things Carmello has done off the court, and being involved in a project that he helped start financially (philanthropic in nature), I assure you Carmello is not a Thug. Tonight, he showed exactly what he is...a young kid, that still needs to grow up.

Big Red Ron
12/17/2006, 10:18 AM
Okay, as a long time Denver fan (and resident), I feel compelled to stand up for Carmello, as it relates to the "Thug" title. Did he make a mistake tonight? Sure. He was way out of line, and should be (and will be) punished for it.

As for Melo being a Thug, what are you basing that on? Tonights events? Having seen a lot of things Carmello has done off the court, and being involved in a project that he helped start financially (philanthropic in nature), I assure you Carmello is not a Thug. Tonight, he showed exactly what he is...a young kid, that still needs to grow up.I wouldn't say he's a thug more of a little bich for the sucker punch and run.

colleyvillesooner
12/17/2006, 11:40 AM
Okay, as a long time Denver fan (and resident), I feel compelled to stand up for Carmello, as it relates to the "Thug" title. Did he make a mistake tonight? Sure. He was way out of line, and should be (and will be) punished for it.

As for Melo being a Thug, what are you basing that on? Tonights events? Having seen a lot of things Carmello has done off the court, and being involved in a project that he helped start financially (philanthropic in nature), I assure you Carmello is not a Thug. Tonight, he showed exactly what he is...a young kid, that still needs to grow up.

Thug was probably a little far (drinking), but to the casual fan, he's been in the news multiple times for his friend getting arrested for possession while driving his companies car, and he was arrested with Marijuana getting on a team flight, but said it was his friends.

Now, both of those charges may have been, and probably were dropped. but those headlines don't make it as big as "NBA star arrested before boarding team flight". They run on page 3 and such.

I'm just saying that the average fan sees those articles on ESPN.com and after a you pile a few of them on, then something like this happen, it just looks bad.

I'm sure he's a good guy and does lots of great things on and off the court.

Fraggle145
12/17/2006, 02:09 PM
I'm sure he's a good guy and does lots of great things on and off the court.

So does Allen Iverson... is he a thug? just sayin. Dont be a jack *** on national TV, dont sucker punch people, dont get arrested for drugs (or have friends that do etc...) its not that hard.

Curly Bill
12/17/2006, 03:50 PM
Yeah these guys are millionaires, but where lots of them come from they still believe in earning or keeping respect. Carmello by sucker-punching that dude was in his mind standing up for a teammate -- big spek! Now of course to most of us it looks rediculous what he did, and yeah it makes him look like a thug -- though a sissyfied one for sucker-punching and running.

mrowl
12/17/2006, 04:24 PM
doesn't matter what you do off the court. He can still be a thug, just like the majority of the NBA.

pathetic losers.

8timechamps
12/17/2006, 09:05 PM
doesn't matter what you do off the court. He can still be a thug, just like the majority of the NBA.

pathetic losers.

What qualifies one to be a "thug"? I guess I just don't see it.

Is he a kid that made a bad decision? Yep. Is he an idiot or moron for choosing to punch an opposing player? Yep.

I define "thug" as a violent criminal. I think Carmello is far from that.

It's very easy to label someone based on one or two incidents you see on ESPN. I'm just saying there is much, much more to Carmello most people don't see. A very good, caring side. That's not to say he's an angel, but are any of us?

colleyvillesooner
12/17/2006, 09:07 PM
What qualifies one to be a "thug"? I guess I just don't see it.

Is he a kid that made a bad decision? Yep. Is he an idiot or moron for choosing to punch an opposing player? Yep.

I define "thug" as a violent criminal. I think Carmello is far from that.

It's very easy to label someone based on one or two incidents you see on ESPN. I'm just saying there is much, much more to Carmello most people don't see. A very good, caring side. That's not to say he's an angel, but are any of us?

I agree, but the fan the NBA is targeting is the kind that watches/reads ESPN and that's all they see.

8timechamps
12/17/2006, 09:12 PM
Just taking a stab in the dark here, but suppose one of our (Sooner) defensive players, say Zach Latimer, was chop blocked, or was the victim of a perceived cheap shot by an opposing player, and Rufus took a swing at the guy that did it, would that make Rufus a thug?

And before you say "well, that's the difference....Rufus doesn’t do that", let me remind you that there has been many incidents in OU history where that type of thing has happened. The difference is that it's football, and society just accepts that football players are going to retaliate.

I can say, without any doubt that if the incident that occurred at a home (basketball or football) game in Norman, more than 95% of us wouldn’t label any of our players “thugs”. And, as we all know, there have been many, many former Sooners that have had their share of incidents on and off the court/field.

The only point I am making is based on what I know of Carmello (and it’s not a close, personal relationship by any means), he is far from being thug.

8timechamps
12/17/2006, 09:15 PM
I agree, but the fan the NBA is targeting is the kind that watches/reads ESPN and that's all they see.

I agree. There is no doubt that what Carmelo (and the other's that were involved) did was wrong. And they should (and will be) punished for what they did.

As long as there is sports and competition, there will be incidents like the Nuggets/Knicks, Pacers/Pistons and Miami/FIU brawls. I guess we, as a society have choosen to consdier it "the price we pay". It's sad...but I don't want to get on my soapbox about what's wrong with sports.

colleyvillesooner
12/17/2006, 09:16 PM
Probably not to us close to the situation, but to outsiders, maybe. Some people would just say, "I remember that guy, he got arrested a while back for being involved in a fight. Now this."

We all know those charges were bogus and that they were dropped, but did that make the front page of the CFB section of ESPN like the arrest did? No.

People close to the Denver scene know better, but people outside, probably just see this as another incident involving Carmelo. And that's what the NBA doesn't like.

Scott D
12/17/2006, 09:17 PM
doesn't matter what you do off the court. He can still be a thug, just like the majority of the NBA.

pathetic losers.

wow.

8timechamps
12/17/2006, 09:27 PM
wow.

Scott-y,
That was my first reaction to that post. mrowl has posted here a long time, and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But, it could very easily be misunderstood, or taken for another meaning.

Scott D
12/17/2006, 09:29 PM
I thought that post was almost Dean-ish.

mrowl
12/18/2006, 04:33 PM
wow.

I don't see whats "wow" about it.

IMO, on ANY night, if that same scenario happened at ANY NBA game, that same brawl would happen... and would possibly clear the benches also.

Any the other top 3 sports (we will include the NHL :D ), that would not happen.

mrowl
12/18/2006, 04:34 PM
and quoting what someone else said in the SO, its not basketball anymore. Thats why they get their *** kicked in internationals.

your a thug, and a loser when you hit someone and run away. (and I don't just watch ESPN, I try to watch the NBA, and then they pull this ****)

Scott D
12/18/2006, 05:36 PM
I don't see whats "wow" about it.

IMO, on ANY night, if that same scenario happened at ANY NBA game, that same brawl would happen... and would possibly clear the benches also.

Any the other top 3 sports (we will include the NHL :D ), that would not happen.

Wow is that you south ovalishly just use a broad spectrum brush to paint 99% of the players in the league as 'thugs'. By your definition that would make 100% of the NFL thugs as well, and more than a few of your Dallas Stars 'thugs' also.

There have been what? Two major incidents in the NBA in the past 5 years? And that makes most of the league thugs?

Oh, and by the definition that most SO users use, anything that they find a reason not to like is evil and thereby should be destroyed for the betterment of humanity.

mrowl
12/18/2006, 05:42 PM
NFL football is inherently violent. And I don't think I have ever seen all 22 players in a brawl during play. (if its happened, please point it out, I can't remember)

Hockey, the fights are built into the game, its a part of the game, "tradition" if you will. Doesn't compare. Its expected, and if Ludwig hit another player, he never ran away after the punch.


I don't think the NBA is evil, I do think they have many problems, but the execs don't care because the bottom line says you are making a profit.

Scott D
12/18/2006, 05:47 PM
I wouldn't say the execs don't care...because no commissioner has more total control over a product than David Stern.

I'm sure Cub fans are glad that by the definition you used earlier that Michael Barrett is a thug. Clearly with larger rosters, and more bench clearing incidents than ever in the last 10 years 99% of MLB are thugs.

Scott D
12/19/2006, 06:20 PM
I think this article is very insightful about the 'outrage' over this matter. And fwiw the author of the article is white.


Every time there's a fight or a brawl in the NBA the country reacts like the sanctity of our American culture is at stake. In the wake of the New York Knicks and Denver Nuggets brawl this weekend there's hand-wringing ("What has our country come to?"), whining ("I can't believe these millionaire athletes can't behave") and morally superior generational posturing ("These kids today are just bad seeds.")

This is all complete crap. Your average intramural league has more dustups than an NBA game. Yet every time one of these brawls or fights occurs, the cultural critics come yapping, and the eternal barking over our sporting demise is ascendant. Never mind that the NBA is by far the least violent of our major professional sports leagues, or that the league is likely to levy a substantial suspension and fine to punish those involved. None of that matters, because these dust-ups are primarily black guys fighting, and we can't have that.

Don't believe the race of the brawlers has any significance? Go ahead and send me e-mails rife with grammatical imprecision and sterling lines like, "your obsurd." But before you hit send, ask yourself this: Why do Major League Baseball and the National Hockey League consistently allow their majority white athletes to fight with hardly any public outrage?

Think about it: Each night in hockey games, white guys square off and throw multiple punches at one another. White guys get bones broken in their hands and faces, bleed and get put on the injured list, and fans cheer like crazy. It used to never make any sense to me how owners who pay millions of dollars in hockey salaries can countenance that fighting. I mean, they're paying salaries to highly skilled professionals to ply their trade. Imagine if you owned a hospital, and halfway through a surgery, two doctors got into a fist fight over placement at the operating table or who got the shiniest clamps. The doctors would get fired.

To me, this is every bit as ridiculous as other million-dollar paycheck earners squaring off in a hockey rink. Both are completely unrelated to their actual jobs. But then I realized the owners put up with the fighting because their fans demand that it continue. Delicious irony, don't you think? The same fans who will be reacting with utter disdain to this NBA fight on a hardwood floor will be cheering like deranged lunatics to an NHL fight on ice.

Hockey fans always fall back on the fact that fighting is just a part of hockey culture. No, it isn't. Players don't fight in college, and they don't fight in the Olympics. Fighting helps sell tickets. Period. And the NHL doesn't actually have sufficient penalties to keep the players from fighting. If they did, it would pretty much stop. But the NHL needs the money and fans they gain by allowing fighting. There is no comparison to how stringently the NBA militates against fighting as opposed to the NHL. And if the NHL was a majority black league, the public outcry would demand an end to hockey fights. But two white athletes fighting are unthreatening, marketable and highlight-reel worthy. Great, says the average fan, pass me another beer, and maybe, a cotton candy for the kid. Two black guys fighting? My God, lock up the women and children and batten down the hatches. The Apocalypse is nigh.

In baseball, managers actually instruct their pitchers to hit opposing batters. This, of course, is an embedded code of the game that is entirely permissible. To actually throw a high-speed pitch at an opposing player. And the resulting mound charges and ensuing brawls? Just a part of the game as well. This is insane. If a pitcher loses control of one of these pitches, a player could die. Or be maimed for life. Fast balls to the head have a way of wreaking havoc. All on the instruction of the manager. Yet, has baseball done anything to eradicate this from the game? Of course not. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that baseball is a majority white sport and that the majority of these brawlers are also white.

Remember when Temple's John Chaney sent in a player to commit a hard foul because he was angry over the screens being set by St. Joseph's? On the foul, the St. Joe's player was injured, and there was talk that John Chaney should be fired. He was a pariah for the better part of a month. In baseball, Ozzie Guillen can do the equivalent of what Chaney did multiple times with his pitchers. Then Guillen can talk about it to the media and no one cares. People will write articles about how much they love a colorful guy like Guillen, and the same people will lambaste Chaney to no end. This is hypocritical and absurd. Yet the racial dynamics of sports fighting somehow permit it. Encourage it even.

Personally, most of the time when I see NBA players fight, it makes them seem less threatening. That's because usually the punches are wild and don't connect. Players who otherwise seem athletic, controlled and physically imposing turn into gangly windmills tilting at opponents who are nowhere near them. Watching two NBA players fight is sort of like watching old people jump on trampolines. It just doesn't seem natural. There's no quicker way to kill your street cred than to throw a wild and sideways punch with your thumb still inside your fist. But, to the NBA's credit, they've recognized that fighting isn't an integral part of basketball. And when it happens they issue stiff penalties.

The result is that the NBA now has less fighting than just about any recreational basketball league in America. And it certainly has less than most pickup games featuring players of the same age. I've seen more fights and near fights from basketball games I've participated in then I have from NBA games I've watched on television. And these are games featuring guys of every race, class or creed.

Baseball's players are 60 percent white and only 8.5 percent black. The NHL has 2.5 percent black players, while the NBA is about 80 percent black. But I'm sure it's insignificant that the players in the NBA fighting this past weekend were black. After all, we're a color-blind society, right? We treat everyone the same, and comparing professional hockey or baseball fighting to basketball fighting isn't really fair. And the race of the athletes has nothing to do with how we respond to the fighting in those sports, either. Or maybe in the end, the reaction of our country when NBA players fight says a lot more about us than it does about them.

8timechamps
12/21/2006, 01:31 AM
The bottom line is that if the same thing happened in baseball (how many times have we seen that?!), would people consider the players "thugs"? No. I've never heard anyone call a baseball player a thug because he charged the mound.

The reality (as sad as it may be), is that since the majority of NBA players are black, they are viewed as "thugs" when this happens. It's an issue that Stern himself has addressed.

To me, it's just another sad display of the racial boundries we have in this country.

As I said, was Carmelo an idiot, moron, punk for what he did? Sure. And he's even said as much. But why is Carmelo considered a "thug" for what he did, and Jason Kendall (of the A's) is defended more than not for charging the mound and insighting a brawl?

It seems to me that most white americans (and I am not assuming mrowl to be in the category as I don't know him) determine the nature of the offender (being a thug vs going nuts) based on the color of the guys skin.

It's just sad to me.

8timechamps
12/21/2006, 01:33 AM
NFL football is inherently violent. And I don't think I have ever seen all 22 players in a brawl during play. (if its happened, please point it out, I can't remember)

but the execs don't care because the bottom line says you are making a profit.


2006 Miami vs FIU