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JohnnyMack
12/12/2006, 10:27 AM
So he's young, charismatic and idealistic. A well spoken man who has a new "sunshine pumper" book out. Getting primed for a run at the White House in '08. What exactly has he actually accomplished that is deserving of my attention?

OUHOMER
12/12/2006, 10:28 AM
he will split the vote with HC, which I think is cool

jk the sooner fan
12/12/2006, 10:31 AM
he's halle berry black...

achiro
12/12/2006, 10:32 AM
What exactly has he actually accomplished that is deserving of my attention?
Or at least what does he stand for?

batonrougesooner
12/12/2006, 10:33 AM
Some think he's the antichrist.

Seriously.

jk the sooner fan
12/12/2006, 10:33 AM
he's fairly liberal...not alot of difference idealistically between he and hillary

that will be an interesting race.....a woman vs. african american

picasso
12/12/2006, 10:35 AM
isn't he an outspoken socialist?

slickdawg
12/12/2006, 10:37 AM
The one thing he's got going for him - he hasn't been in DC long enough to become completely corrupted, like most of the dems and republicans.

Okla-homey
12/12/2006, 10:42 AM
Once the vast right wing conspiracy goes to work on him, he'll prolly go down in flames just like Gary Hart did. There must be indiscretions, illegitimate children, damning speeches, scary published material from his undergrad days, youthful criminal behavior or all of the above there somewhere.;)

as an aside, that "anti-Christ" thingy may end up having legs -- particularly among readers of the "Left Behind" series.:eek:

Rhino
12/12/2006, 10:42 AM
I heard on FoxNews that he eats babies.

sooner_born_1960
12/12/2006, 10:42 AM
This one is going to be fun.

:pop:

tbl
12/12/2006, 10:43 AM
What did W do prior to winning his first presidential election? Seriously...

For the record, there is no way I'd vote for Obama. I'm just sayin...

1stTimeCaller
12/12/2006, 10:44 AM
The one thing he's got going for him - he hasn't been in DC long enough to become completely corrupted, like most of the dems and republicans.
But he's from Illinois. That cancels out the short time in DC.

tbl
12/12/2006, 10:44 AM
There must be indiscretions, illegitimate children, damning speeches, scary published material from his undergrad days, youthful criminal behavior or all of the above there somewhere.;)
Racist!!!!

slickdawg
12/12/2006, 10:48 AM
But he's from Illinois. That cancels out the short time in DC.

Oh yeah, Dan Rostenkowski's homeland.

JohnnyMack
12/12/2006, 10:49 AM
What did W do prior to winning his first presidential election? Seriously...

For the record, there is no way I'd vote for Obama. I'm just sayin...

At least W was the 2 time Governor of one of the largest states in the union. He at least had experience managing a state.

I just don't know what Obama has actually done. Just as I don't know what HRC has actually done to be deserving of the nod. I always tend to favor accomplished Governors over Senators.

Okla-homey
12/12/2006, 10:51 AM
At least W was the Governor of one of the largest states in the union. He at least had experience managing a state.

I just don't know what Obama has actually done. Just as I don't know what HRC has actually done to be deserving of the nod. I always tend to favor accomplished Governors over Senators.

Don't forget, JFK hadn't done crap when he was elected to the White House in 1960 either. BTW, that was the last time anyone went from the Senate to the WH. Usually, a governorship or the vice-presidency is required enroute. Of course, that whole JFK presidency ended badly.

sooner_born_1960
12/12/2006, 10:53 AM
I remember back to the Democratic National Convention, he made a speech that had a lot of posters around here all giddy and stuff.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 10:54 AM
So he's young, charismatic and idealistic. A well spoken man who has a new "sunshine pumper" book out. Getting primed for a run at the White House in '08. What exactly has he actually accomplished that is deserving of my attention?

What kills me is the lovefest for this guy and he hasn't even wet his diapers yet.

Okla-homey
12/12/2006, 10:55 AM
What kills me is the lovefest for this guy and he hasn't even wet his diapers yet.

Not to be a bore, but lots of people creamed their panties over JFK too. "Attractive, young, great speaker" outweighs a great deal in lots of folks' minds.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 10:55 AM
a woman vs. african american

Rub is he isn't an "african-american"...He is a whitey and a Jamaican (or some carribean islander - I believe)...

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 10:56 AM
Not to be a bore, but lots of people creamed their panties over JFK too.

Yeah and I don't get the lovefest for the son of a drug runner...

Okla-homey
12/12/2006, 10:57 AM
Yeah and I don't get the lovefest for the son of a drug runner...

he was a bootlegger. Not a drug-runner.;)

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/12/2006, 10:57 AM
America appears to want socialism.

Rhino
12/12/2006, 10:59 AM
Rub is he isn't an "african-american"...He is a whitey and a Jamaican (or some carribean islander - I believe)... He's half-Kenyan and half-Kansan.

Okla-homey
12/12/2006, 10:59 AM
Rub is he isn't an "african-american"...He is a whitey and a Jamaican (or some carribean islander - I believe)...

from his bio:


Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama Sr. of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas. His parents met while both were attending the East-West Center of the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was enrolled as a foreign student. In his 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father, Obama describes a nearly race-blind early childhood. He writes: "That my father looked nothing like the people around me –- that he was black as pitch, my mother white as milk –- barely registered in my mind."[3][4]

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/12/2006, 11:00 AM
I heard on FoxNews that he eats babies.But, since you don't watch Fox News, why should we believe you?

Rhino
12/12/2006, 11:04 AM
Because I also read it on a propaganda web site.

Drudge something.

Mjcpr
12/12/2006, 11:06 AM
He's half-Kenyan and half-Kansan.

Those Kansans all look alike anyway.

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 11:08 AM
He's half-Kenyan and half-Kansan.
So he is literally African-American then?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/12/2006, 11:23 AM
I heard on FoxNews that he eats babies.Shows you a dim can put out just about any platform he wants, and still get the support of the MSM, eh?

skycat
12/12/2006, 11:26 AM
Those Kansans all look alike anyway.

In an incredibly sexy kind of way.

NormanPride
12/12/2006, 11:26 AM
Man, there's some weak-*** smack goin' on in here.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 11:34 AM
he was a bootlegger. Not a drug-runner.;)

If I remember correctly, papa joe, had fast boats to take the booze from Canadian ships loaded off shore to take it into the New England coast...That's drug running to me...;)

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 11:35 AM
from his bio:

Thanks...

Definitely NOT "african-american" , African yes and whitey...

Rhino
12/12/2006, 11:36 AM
Shows you a dim can put out just about any platform he wants, and still get the support of the MSM, eh? You should quote that post one more time for a hat trick.

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 11:38 AM
Thanks...

Definitely NOT "african-american" , African yes and whitey...
are Kansas's not americans?

Tulsa_Fireman
12/12/2006, 11:39 AM
Anyone ever heard or seen a man or woman, half white and half black, claim to be caucasian? If not, why not?

Never understood that. You'd think a fella would have options.

SoonerStormchaser
12/12/2006, 11:42 AM
Dude's got charisma, I'll give him that.

Still, he ain't getting my vote (duh...look at my career field for my politics).

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 11:44 AM
Anyone ever heard or seen a man or woman, half white and half black, claim to be caucasian? If not, why not?

Never understood that. You'd think a fella would have options.
Probably because in the South if you were just a little black, you were considered Black. See Plessy v. Ferguson for reference. Things like that die hard.

slickdawg
12/12/2006, 11:47 AM
So he is literally African-American then?

No, if you are born in Africa, and move to America and become a citizen, then you are a true AA.

But why these a**holes do that drives me nuts - you are either an American or you are not.

sooner_born_1960
12/12/2006, 11:48 AM
I already voted for him twice in his senate election. That's all he's getting from me.

Okla-homey
12/12/2006, 11:49 AM
Anyone ever heard or seen a man or woman, half white and half black, claim to be caucasian? If not, why not?

Never understood that. You'd think a fella would have options.

It probably stems from the fact that it was incorporated in state stautes for a very long time. IOW, whitey is responsible. Perhaps TU will weigh-in on the code of Lousiana which stipulated who could claim what, based on quantum of non-white blood.

I do recall that folks who were 1/8 black (that's one black great-grandparent from either mom or dads side) were legally "octoroons"(sp?) and thus were not "white," although they might have appeared completely caucasian.

fadada1
12/12/2006, 11:52 AM
"i don't think we should be talking about this."

"you want to go to the GAP?"

C&CDean
12/12/2006, 12:01 PM
I think it's been painfully obvious that people are exceptionally stupid. They'd rather have a "polished, charismatic speaker" over a man of substance and/or morals. Half or more of the people who hate "W" hate him because he sounds like a dimwit when he speaks. People wanna be entertained by their leaders and don't really give a **** about what they stand for.

So, barring some connection to Al Queda, people are gonna eat this guy up. Some people already are. He ain't gonna ever get my vote - unless he changes his name to something a little less terrorist. Like John Smith.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
12/12/2006, 12:03 PM
Doesn't matter anyway. America won't elect a woman or a minoritay any time soon.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:03 PM
are Kansas's not americans?

Not "african-american" in the sense that people refer to that as being...He certainly shouldn't be bellying up to the reparations bar as he wasn't descended from "freed slaves"...

jk the sooner fan
12/12/2006, 12:05 PM
totally agree with Dean

C&CDean
12/12/2006, 12:05 PM
Doesn't matter anyway. America won't elect a woman or a minoritay any time soon.

Do you promise?

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 12:05 PM
Not "african-american" in the sense that people refer to that as being...He certainly shouldn't be bellying up to the reparations bar as he wasn't descended from "freed slaves"...
Is there any evidence that he is?

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
12/12/2006, 12:06 PM
Totally honest question for the Republicans: Will you vote for McCain? If not, then who?

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:06 PM
I think it's been painfully obvious that people are exceptionally stupid. They'd rather have a "polished, charismatic speaker" over a man of substance and/or morals. Half or more of the people who hate "W" hate him because he sounds like a dimwit when he speaks. People wanna be entertained by their leaders and don't really give a **** about what they stand for.

So, barring some connection to Al Queda, people are gonna eat this guy up. Some people already are. He ain't gonna ever get my vote - unless he changes his name to something a little less terrorist. Like John Smith.

Just like NOLAs, they vote in Jefferson, a known bribe taker and money freezer!!! And NOLAs and Lousianna's want people to take them seriously??? Shesh....

jk the sooner fan
12/12/2006, 12:07 PM
Totally honest question for the Republicans: Will you vote for McCain? If not, then who?

no

i dont know

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
12/12/2006, 12:07 PM
Do you promise?I plan on running in 2012. Will you vote for me?

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:07 PM
Totally honest question for the Republicans: Will you vote for McCain? If not, then who?

I would be very hard pressed to vote McCain. Is there an alternative? I am not one to not vote, and I have held my nose to vote...But that may be ending.

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/12/2006, 12:08 PM
I think it's been painfully obvious that people are exceptionally stupid. They'd rather have a "polished, charismatic speaker" over a man of substance and/or morals. Half or more of the people who hate "W" hate him because he sounds like a dimwit when he speaks. People wanna be entertained by their leaders and don't really give a **** about what they stand for.

So, barring some connection to Al Queda, people are gonna eat this guy up. Some people already are. He ain't gonna ever get my vote - unless he changes his name to something a little less terrorist. Like John Smith.

So if you vote on morals and substance...does that mean you haven't ever voted? ;)

JohnnyMack
12/12/2006, 12:08 PM
This is one of those days when :dean: and JK still think there's hope for me.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:10 PM
Is there any evidence that he is?

If you are refering to is he asking for reparations? I have no idea, using it as a modifier that he ain't part of the "black america" that the press loves to write about and that they are trying to paint him into (and he is allowing to be characterized). He certainly hasn't corrected people saying he is not of that heritage...

I think he is just another ultra-liberal...

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/12/2006, 12:10 PM
Totally honest question for the Republicans: Will you vote for McCain? If not, then who?No in the primary, and yes if he's the repub nominee. No as an independent.

Jimminy Crimson
12/12/2006, 12:11 PM
Totally honest question for the Republicans: Will you vote for McCain? If not, then who?

Yes

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 12:11 PM
I would be very hard pressed to vote McCain. Is there an alternative? I am not one to not vote, and I have held my nose to vote...But that may be ending.
Mitt Romney.

Tulsa_Fireman
12/12/2006, 12:13 PM
Sylvester Stallone.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:14 PM
Mitt Romney.

I would be hard pressed to vote for a Mormon. I know there are a lot of LDSers in the world, and they have generally good morals and are family oriented, but I am not exactly convinced. Oh, BTW, my name isn't Mikey. ;)

EDIT: You don't have to be whitey to get my vote...I could vote for Condi or Colin Powell (though he may be a RINO).

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 12:16 PM
I would be hard pressed to vote for a Mormon. I know there are a lot of LDSers in the world, and they have generally good morals and are family oriented, but I am not exactly convinced. Oh, BTW, my name isn't Mikey. ;)
If every one were Mormon or Lutheran the world would be perfect. But they're not, and out of any group in America, the Mormon's probably have their **** together the most. I say we give them the keys.

Rhino
12/12/2006, 12:16 PM
He's part-white!
No, he's Jamaican or something!
No, he's part-black!
Well, he's not black enough!

Man, why doesn't he just pick a heritage already. Sheeeeeesh.

slickdawg
12/12/2006, 12:18 PM
Totally honest question for the Republicans: Will you vote for McCain? If not, then who?

McCain isn't stable, IMHO. The man has issues.


I'm gonna write in Dean.

Tulsa_Fireman
12/12/2006, 12:20 PM
I'm gonna write in Dean.

And then we're gonna take WISCONSIN!

And then we're gonna BANE it!

RRRAAGALSFGLKASFGK!!!

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/12/2006, 12:21 PM
McCain is not stable as in he doesn't mindlessly follow everything the Republican party tells him to do...

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:23 PM
If every one were Mormon or Lutheran the world would be perfect. But they're not, and out of any group in America, the Mormon's probably have their **** together the most. I say we give them the keys.

As a Lutheran, I would give us the keys...;)

I have a hard time with the beginning of LDS. Not that it is a re-interpretation, but if it were founded today, some would call it a cult. I doubt anyone would call Lutheranism a cult. They supposedly have purged themselves of the unsavory nature of the religion, but I wonder - no one was giving up Warren Jeffs quickly.

As a rule, I would agree, they are highly family oriented and do have their stuff together.

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 12:29 PM
As a Lutheran, I would give us the keys...;)

I have a hard time with the beginning of LDS. Not that it is a re-interpretation, but if it were founded today, some would call it a cult. I doubt anyone would call Lutheranism a cult. They supposedly have purged themselves of the unsavory nature of the religion, but I wonder - no one was giving up Warren Jeffs quickly.

As a rule, I would agree, they are highly family oriented and do have their stuff together.
As a Lutheran also, I just don't think we have a candidate as good as Mitt right now. I'm not going to knock the Mormon's for not being perfect as everyone else has their share of problems too.

JohnnyMack
12/12/2006, 12:50 PM
If we're giving away the keys, I'd give them to my lord:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/rawcatslyentist/SouthPark-TheDevilSadame.jpg

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 12:54 PM
As a Lutheran also, I just don't think we have a candidate as good as Mitt right now. I'm not going to knock the Mormon's for not being perfect as everyone else has their share of problems too.

I am not knocking people of the mormon faith, I am in some sense skeptical of the LDS faith. Wasn't exactly founded in forthright manner. I mean, special goggles to see the translation on the golden tablets (which no one has seen) and the made up mention of polygamy so the founder could get out of his original marriage because his first wife didn't "buy" into the tenants he was describing...Even my Pastor has called it a "sub-christian cult".

Just as I am skeptical of Scientology, I am skeptical of LDS (as a faith).

But back to the original point. Mitt Romney - from what I have seen and read, does appear to be an interesting alternative to the list of people on the repub list...

McCain and Giuliani are not really good candidates - IMO.

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 12:58 PM
I am not knocking people of the mormon faith, I am in some sense skeptical of the LDS faith. Wasn't exactly founded in forthright manner. I mean, special goggles to see the translation on the golden tablets (which no one has seen) and the made up mention of polygamy so the founder could get out of his original marriage because his first wife didn't "buy" into the tenants he was describing...Even my Pastor has called it a "sub-christian cult".

Just as I am skeptical of Scientology, I am skeptical of LDS (as a faith).

But back to the original point. Mitt Romney - from what I have seen and read, does appear to be an interesting alternative to the list of people on the repub list...

McCain and Giuliani are not really good candidates - IMO.
I used to be pretty skeptical too, and then I ended up sharing an office and working with a Mormon. It changed a lot my perceptions, and I finally remember to stop offering him hot tea.

NormanPride
12/12/2006, 01:04 PM
What's wrong with hot tea?

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 01:06 PM
I used to be pretty skeptical too, and then I ended up sharing an office and working with a Mormon. It changed a lot my perceptions, and I finally remember to stop offering him hot tea.

You know...I would like to see how a Mormon responds to the skepticism surrounding LDS. As I am sure people really wonder of the faith we would have in Jesus and his resurrection, I wonder how they respond to the issues surrounding the founding of LDS, its "message" from Gabriel (I believe) and the special means required to translate the new texts?

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 01:06 PM
What's wrong with hot tea?
caffine. Mormons don't drink tea or coffee

royalfan5
12/12/2006, 01:10 PM
You know...I would like to see how a Mormon responds to the skepticism surrounding LDS. As I am sure people really wonder of the faith we would have in Jesus and his resurection, I wonder how they respond to the issues surrounding the founding of LDS, its "message" from Gabriel (I believe) and the special means required to translate the new texts?
I've talked to him about it a bunch and he seems to accept that there is going to be a lot of skeptism, and he is pretty pro-religous freedom. I also found out the Mormons like the Lutherans, and Saturday mornings are the worst time to be out on Mission because the Jehovah's Witness are out too, and they get people all riled up and it's a tough act to follow. And where is a Hubler when you need them.

NormanPride
12/12/2006, 01:10 PM
caffine. Mormons don't drink tea or coffee

Well, that's not very American of them!










;)

Frozen Sooner
12/12/2006, 01:15 PM
You know...I would like to see how a Mormon responds to the skepticism surrounding LDS. As I am sure people really wonder of the faith we would have in Jesus and his resurrection, I wonder how they respond to the issues surrounding the founding of LDS, its "message" from Gabriel (I believe) and the special means required to translate the new texts?

As the resident skeptic, we figure that once you accept Virgin Birth and some other stuff, golden salamanders, holy underwear, and mysterious golden tablets aren't that hard to swallow.

Religious people are generally pretty nice, so I don't worry too much about what they believe from the standpoint of whether it sounds silly or not.

fadada1
12/12/2006, 01:19 PM
I think it's been painfully obvious that people are exceptionally stupid. They'd rather have a "polished, charismatic speaker" over a man of substance and/or morals. Half or more of the people who hate "W" hate him because he sounds like a dimwit when he speaks. People wanna be entertained by their leaders and don't really give a **** about what they stand for.

So, barring some connection to Al Queda, people are gonna eat this guy up. Some people already are. He ain't gonna ever get my vote - unless he changes his name to something a little less terrorist. Like John Smith.
i've got no doubt that W is a man of substance and morals. there are a lot of good men (and women) out there with substance and morals. fact is, W does sound like a dimwit when he speaks, and sometimes (not always) it might be a reflection on his intelligence. a guy i work with claims that you can't be stupid and get into yale. on the contrary, you can get into yale if you're stupid... especially when your daddy went there and happened to be a war hero... and happened to give them a metric butt-ton of money.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/12/2006, 01:30 PM
Well, I guess this has been thoroughly thread-jacked! ;)

Nice to see a good conversation for a change.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
12/12/2006, 01:49 PM
http://images.cafepress.com/product/89129594v1_240x240_Front.jpg
I'm voting for Colbert.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/12/2006, 01:55 PM
fact is, W does sound like a dimwit when he speaks, and sometimes (not always) it might be a reflection on his intelligence. Sad you might believe this.

fadada1
12/12/2006, 02:31 PM
Sad you might believe this.
in his case, i do.

C&CDean
12/12/2006, 02:58 PM
in his case, i do.

Try not to let the media make up your mind for you. When you can do this, then you will be ready grasshoppa.

mikeelikee
12/12/2006, 03:04 PM
Oh yeah, I'm really looking forward to our next president being named Barack Hussein Obama! :rolleyes:

yermom
12/12/2006, 03:06 PM
his name has to doom much of a chance he has of getting elected

i'm not sure if being half-African hurts or helps him

soonerscuba
12/12/2006, 03:19 PM
So if you don't like Bush it is because you think he is stupid? Thanks for the enlightenment, all this time I thought I didn't like him because he is on par with K-Fed with administrating workable policy.

soonerscuba
12/12/2006, 03:20 PM
Oh, and if you think that Obama doesn't have a chance you are grossly underestimating the stupidity of the average American.

Scott D
12/12/2006, 04:40 PM
Oh, and if you think that Obama doesn't have a chance you are grossly underestimating the stupidity of the average American.

I don't know, I think this thread exemplifies the stupidity of the average American.

Ike
12/12/2006, 04:49 PM
I don't know, I think this thread exemplifies the stupidity of the average American.

Only if you think political campaigns should be about a candidates ideas.



In this country though, political campaigns are about everything except the candidates ideas.

Scott D
12/12/2006, 04:57 PM
Only if you think political campaigns should be about a candidates ideas.



In this country though, political campaigns are about everything except the candidates ideas.

True enough I mean look at Oklahoma. People were dumb enough to vote for a guy to be governor who has two first names. I mean come on...you can't seriously trust anyone who has two first names. ;)

Frozen Sooner
12/12/2006, 05:10 PM
Oh yeah, I'm really looking forward to our next president being named Barack Hussein Obama! :rolleyes:

That's pretty much as stupid as someone saying they won't vote for someone named after female anatomy.

crawfish
12/12/2006, 05:18 PM
That's pretty much as stupid as someone saying they won't vote for someone named after female anatomy.

Just say no to Mulva!!!

lexsooner
12/12/2006, 09:50 PM
I have no idea whether Obama is a viable candidate for the Presidency, however he is about the most exciting and dynamic possibility out there. As another poster pointed out earlier, we need to know what he stands for. Then we will know if he is a legitimate prez candidate.

As far as his accomplishments, he's young, but it is hard to knock his experiences in community service, academia, and in the U.S. Senate. If, for the sake of argument, he becomes POUS in 2008, he will have four years of US Senate experience under him, as compared to about five years of gubernatorial experience for W when he became POUS in 2001.

In terms of raw intellectual power, Obama is exceptional - he did so well at Harvard Law School that he made the Law Review after his first year, and was later elected president of Harvard Law Review. He graduated magna cum laude, and later became a professor of constitutional law at the U. of Chicago School of Law, one of the top law schools in the world, authored two best selling books, etc. Bush, who probably should have gotten into no better than UT based on his grades and test scores, needed his family to pull strings to get him into Yale, and is not anywhere near Obama as far as raw intellect.

Time will tell, however, whether Obama is a prez contender. For the moment, however, he is too exciting and exceptionally smart to be immediately dismissed.

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/12/2006, 10:04 PM
My parents shared not only an improbable love, they shared an abiding faith in the possibilities of this nation. They would give me an African name, Barack, or ”blessed,” believing that in a tolerant America your name is no barrier to success. They imagined -- They imagined me going to the best schools in the land, even though they weren’t rich, because in a generous America you don’t have to be rich to achieve your potential.


Whoops...I guess they got that wrong ;)



And fellow Americans, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, I say to you tonight: We have more work to do -- more work to do for the workers I met in Galesburg, Illinois, who are losing their union jobs at the Maytag plant that’s moving to Mexico, and now are having to compete with their own children for jobs that pay seven bucks an hour; more to do for the father that I met who was losing his job and choking back the tears, wondering how he would pay 4500 dollars a month for the drugs his son needs without the health benefits that he counted on; more to do for the young woman in East St. Louis, and thousands more like her, who has the grades, has the drive, has the will, but doesn’t have the money to go to college.
Now, don’t get me wrong. The people I meet -- in small towns and big cities, in diners and office parks -- they don’t expect government to solve all their problems. They know they have to work hard to get ahead, and they want to. Go into the collar counties around Chicago, and people will tell you they don’t want their tax money wasted, by a welfare agency or by the Pentagon. Go in -- Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn; they know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white. They know those things.




You know, a while back -- awhile back I met a young man named Shamus in a V.F.W. Hall in East Moline, Illinois. He was a good-looking kid -- six two, six three, clear eyed, with an easy smile. He told me he’d joined the Marines and was heading to Iraq the following week. And as I listened to him explain why he’d enlisted, the absolute faith he had in our country and its leaders, his devotion to duty and service, I thought this young man was all that any of us might ever hope for in a child.
But then I asked myself, "Are we serving Shamus as well as he is serving us?"
I thought of the 900 men and women -- sons and daughters, husbands and wives, friends and neighbors, who won’t be returning to their own hometowns. I thought of the families I’ve met who were struggling to get by without a loved one’s full income, or whose loved ones had returned with a limb missing or nerves shattered, but still lacked long-term health benefits because they were Reservists.

usmc-sooner
12/12/2006, 10:09 PM
my name translates into kiss my *** I aint voting for you

SicEmBaylor
12/12/2006, 10:20 PM
I like Obama. I'm not fond of his politics which I have many many disagreements with, but he strikes me as being a truly decent and sincere man. The kind of leader that Democrats should be proud to elect.

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/12/2006, 10:20 PM
This next election is going to suck. MCain and Guilliani aren't "Hardcore" enough to ever get nominated for President so the Republicans are going to have to have find someone who will mindlessly toe the company line in the next year. The media is going to have to in the next year come up with any sort of way to show that Hilary has actually done anything at all. I actually like Barack Obama but let's face it, he isn't ever going to get elected because of a large portion of the voting population "Ain't votin' on no weird named foreigner" You can also switch out foreigner with some other different adjectives. At this point, we have one viable candidate and that is Hilary and the only reason she is because the MSM has propped her up incredibly well.

SicEmBaylor
12/12/2006, 10:23 PM
I've been calling Mitt Romney for the 2008 GOP nomination since early 2004. I stand by Romney.

Personally, no potential GOP nominee has the credentials to seriously advocate a limited-government Jeffersonian platform that I'm looking for which is why I will probably end up voting Constitution Party.

JohnnyMack
12/12/2006, 11:19 PM
I would have liked to have seen a Warner/Obama ticket.

SicEmBaylor
12/12/2006, 11:42 PM
I would have liked to have seen a Warner/Obama ticket.
Byah/Obama

proud gonzo
12/12/2006, 11:55 PM
he went to the same school as Iggy. And his mom's from Wichita.

OklahomaTuba
12/13/2006, 09:20 AM
I really hope the donks nominate him. I would be very happy about that.

Scott D
12/13/2006, 12:33 PM
I really hope the donks nominate him. I would be very happy about that.

because nominating a minority would virtually insure a victory in the election for the opposing party? Or because you have enough faith that people are small minded and intentionally ignorant in general?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/13/2006, 12:38 PM
because nominating a minority would virtually insure a victory in the election for the opposing party? Or because you have enough faith that people are small minded and intentionally ignorant in general?Why do you assume his statement has anything to do with race?

TheHumanAlphabet
12/13/2006, 12:41 PM
Could it be that he is extremely liberal? His IL voting record is quite enlightening...

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/13/2006, 01:50 PM
Do you got a link to his enlightening voting record....because I am truly curious. I mean his exterior and speaking abilities are magnificent so his voting records are the only thing I don't really know about him

Scott D
12/13/2006, 01:53 PM
Could it be that he is extremely liberal? His IL voting record is quite enlightening...

Do enlighten us all. Is it enlightening in the way of pork barrel politics to bring a home district millions of dollars in useless projects that never get completed with the sole intent of being able to say "Hey, I did this" during the next election?

Or is it just 'enlightening' because you simply don't agree with what may or may not be his efforts to do the right thing in an area that you don't live in, and doesn't really affect you in any way for the most part.

usmc-sooner
12/13/2006, 01:57 PM
I don't have a link but they have said his voting records put him in the top 20 of the most liberal people in congress.

Frozen Sooner
12/13/2006, 01:57 PM
Do enlighten us all. Is it enlightening in the way of pork barrel politics to bring a home district millions of dollars in useless projects that never get completed with the sole intent of being able to say "Hey, I did this" during the next election?

Or is it just 'enlightening' because you simply don't agree with what may or may not be his efforts to do the right thing in an area that you don't live in, and doesn't really affect you in any way for the most part.

Why do you hate Don Young?

JohnnyMack
12/13/2006, 01:57 PM
I can say that regardless of what color he is, I don't know why I should vote for him. I guess I could do some research and not be lazy. But that would take effort.

usmc-sooner
12/13/2006, 02:00 PM
http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=BS030017

here you can all look at his voting record.

I haven't looked at it. So I can't verify if he's super liberal or not.

Scott D
12/13/2006, 02:01 PM
Why do you hate Don Young?

I thought I made it abundantly clear that I hate politicians more than lawyers ;)

Scott D
12/13/2006, 02:05 PM
http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=BS030017

here you can all look at his voting record.

I haven't looked at it. So I can't verify if he's super liberal or not.

seems to vote in the positive in regards to family values. doesn't seem to vote against the military.

clearly he can't be too liberal.

SicEmBaylor
12/13/2006, 02:06 PM
He is liberal, but like I said he's a decent and sincere man. If he were to win the primary watch his reputation be ripped to shreds by folks like Tuba and WF.

usmc-sooner
12/13/2006, 02:15 PM
seems to vote in the positive in regards to family values. doesn't seem to vote against the military.

clearly he can't be too liberal.

I haven't read through all that stuff, It would probably take a day to actually read each one of those.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/13/2006, 02:16 PM
He is liberal, but like I said he's a decent and sincere man. If he were to win the primary watch his reputation be ripped to shreds by folks like Tuba and WF.One must look at his voting record, to see how he performs. The MSM won't do it, so my clone and other conservative media will do it for them.

JohnnyMack
12/13/2006, 02:27 PM
I haven't read through all that stuff, It would probably take a day to actually read each one of those.

I vote we put you in charge. Can we have the Cliff Notes version by tomorrow? :D

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/13/2006, 02:28 PM
I vote we put you in charge. Can we have the Cliff Notes version by tomorrow? :DSecond the nomination.

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/13/2006, 03:54 PM
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding Amendment (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=3659&can_id=BS030017) Voted No...that isn't very liberal denying money to poor people ;) But since you can only be ultra liberal or Ultra Conservative....does this make him Conservative ;)

Gandalf_The_Grey
12/13/2006, 03:59 PM
OKU.S. SenateSrJames M. 'Jim' Inhofe (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H3251103&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Republican8
OKU.S. SenateJrThomas Allen 'Tom' Coburn (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=CNIP8018&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Republican8
OKU.S. House1John A. Sullivan (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=CS028101&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Republican5
OKU.S. House2David Daniel 'Dan' Boren (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=MOK67126&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Democrat27
OKU.S. House3Frank D. Lucas (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H3301103&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Republican9
OKU.S. House4Tom Cole (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=MOK35672&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Republican5
OKU.S. House5Ernest J. Istook (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H3291103&type=category&category=Civil%20Liberties)Republican10
Damm the ACLU hates Oklahoma...those numbers on the end are their rating out of 100 ;)

TheHumanAlphabet
12/13/2006, 06:37 PM
He voted Nay on the English Language amendment...That's liberal enough for me. ;)

I'll try to find his IL voting record. The Senate record was not what I was refering to.

sooner KB
12/13/2006, 07:14 PM
It's funny how people are pointing to lack of experience to try to bring Obama down. Lets compare...

So lets see, Bush held elected office for 6 years as governor of Texas, and Obama will have served 8 years in state senate and 4 years in the US Senate.

While Bush was making C's at Yale, Obama was magna cum laude at Harvard, and became the President of the Harvard Law Review.

While Bush was a CEO of an oil company that went bankrupt, producer a Hollywood slasher B movie, and an owner of a baseball team, Obama was a community organizer in Chicago's South Side, a lecturer on constitutional law, and a civil rights attorney.

While Bush became governor because of his last name and who his dad is, Obama got all the way to the US Senate despite being the child of a lowerclass parents from Kenya and Kansas.

And Republicans want to talk about experience?

StoopTroup
12/13/2006, 07:18 PM
He has a catchy name.

OklaPony
12/13/2006, 07:20 PM
Help me. I'm dizzy from all the spin.

SicEmBaylor
12/13/2006, 07:22 PM
Obama got all the way to the US Senate despite being the child of a lowerclass parents from Kenya and Kansas. experience?

Who exactly are the upper-class of Kenya and Kansas??

StoopTroup
12/13/2006, 07:26 PM
Who exactly are the upper-class of Kenya and Kansas??
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/04/17/1145305305_5296.jpghttp://www.virtualp.us/gotwood2.jpg

yermom
12/13/2006, 07:30 PM
It's funny how people are pointing to lack of experience to try to bring Obama down. Lets compare...

So lets see, Bush held elected office for 6 years as governor of Texas, and Obama will have served 8 years in state senate and 4 years in the US Senate.

While Bush was making C's at Yale, Obama was magna cum laude at Harvard, and became the President of the Harvard Law Review.

While Bush was a CEO of an oil company that went bankrupt, producer a Hollywood slasher B movie, and an owner of a baseball team, Obama was a community organizer in Chicago's South Side, a lecturer on constitutional law, and a civil rights attorney.

While Bush became governor because of his last name and who his dad is, Obama got all the way to the US Senate despite having a name that sounds like Osama.

And Republicans want to talk about experience?

just wanted to keep the parallel going ;)

opksooner
12/13/2006, 07:42 PM
Obama is a shoe-in:

1) Whites will vote for him because he's white.

2) Blacks will vote for him because he's black.

3) Libs will vote for him because he's bi-racial.

4) Muslims will vote for him because his first name is Arabic.

5) Jews will vote for him because his first name sounds like the Hebrew word "baruch", blessing.

.....and of course

6) Catholics will vote for him because they think his name is O'bama.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/13/2006, 07:54 PM
Help me. I'm dizzy from all the spin. Yes, and not enough interest in unraveling it.

JohnnyMack
12/13/2006, 09:54 PM
And Republicans want to talk about experience?

I'm not really a R.

lexsooner
12/13/2006, 10:47 PM
It's funny how people are pointing to lack of experience to try to bring Obama down. Lets compare...

So lets see, Bush held elected office for 6 years as governor of Texas, and Obama will have served 8 years in state senate and 4 years in the US Senate.

While Bush was making C's at Yale, Obama was magna cum laude at Harvard, and became the President of the Harvard Law Review.

While Bush was a CEO of an oil company that went bankrupt, producer a Hollywood slasher B movie, and an owner of a baseball team, Obama was a community organizer in Chicago's South Side, a lecturer on constitutional law, and a civil rights attorney.

While Bush became governor because of his last name and who his dad is, Obama got all the way to the US Senate despite being the child of a lowerclass parents from Kenya and Kansas.

And Republicans want to talk about experience?

You're right on point. However, let's not forget W organized many fun frat events and exclusive bicker club functions at Yale after his legacy status and family influence got him admitted. That's gotta count for something! ;)

I would guess Obama's i.q. is exceptional, easily in the 130+ range, indicative of someone who graduated near the top of his class at Harvard Law, taught constitutional law as a law professor at the U. of Chicago, authored multiple books, etc. etc. On top of all of this, he is a very gifted extemporaneous speaker, driven, creative, and dynamic.

W, I would estimate, has an above-average i.q. of around 120, smart but not exceptional. His grades, test scores, work accomplishments all seem to manifest good smarts, but nothing special. He has very strong social skills and is a very likeable person, but his extemporaneous speakings skills are, well, about that of the average guy on the street. He sits where he is thanks to his family's connections and his social and interpersonal skills. He does seem like a decent, likeable guy, though.