thorpe award

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

is there a rule that it has to go to players in the big 12? cause i'm not seeing ross over nelson

[DarrellZero]

Aren't these Thorpe guys in OKC?

They're going to become known as a regional award instead of a national one if they're not careful.

[Harry Beanbag]

Giving it to anybody in the Texas secondary this year is a joke.

[yermom]

he did pretty well against us and Nebraska :mad:

[BIG_IKE]

Aaron Ross single handedly beat us in the RRS....

8 tackles plus..
In the 4th Quarter alone he had..

2 Interceptions
1 Forced Fumble
1 Fumble Recovery
1 Touchdown

He led all the other candidates in Passes Defended (23), Pass break ups (18),
He also had 73 tackles, 10 takeaways that resulted in 38 points for his team.



He deserved that award in my opinion. Whorn or no Whorn.
He was the lone bright spot in the Whorn Secondary in my opinion.

[Luthor]

Aaron Ross single handedly beat us in the RRS....

8 tackles plus..
In the 4th Quarter alone he had..

2 Interceptions
1 Forced Fumble
1 Fumble Recovery
1 Touchdown

He led all the other candidates in Passes Defended (23), Pass break ups (18),
He also had 73 tackles, 10 takeaways that resulted in 38 points for his team.

He deserved that award in my opinion. Whorn or no Whorn.
He was the lone bright spot in the Whorn Secondary in my opinion.


As as much as I hate it I must agree on the lone bright spot thing. Michael Griffin started the season as 1 of the top 3 safeties in the country. What a disappointment. IMO he spent too much time trying to cover for his brother and the result was neither one did their job.

[TXBOOMER]

[QUOTE=BIG_IKE]Aaron Ross single handedly beat us in the RRS....

8 tackles plus..
In the 4th Quarter alone he had..

2 Interceptions
1 Forced Fumble
1 Fumble Recovery
1 Touchdown

How were those numbers against K State? F*** any and all Whorns!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

73 tackles? i must be seeing something different because the NCAA site has him with 56 (its hard to tell what they are totaling)

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2006&org=703&player=31

i have no idea how many fumble stats nelson has as florida doesn't bother to submit them

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2006&org=235&player=28

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

since 2001, the thorpe has gone to the big 12 every year except 1 (carlos rogers). previous to that (from 1986 on) it has been given 4 times to members of the current big 12 (OU 1, baylor 1, colorado 2).

[#1-Erin-Higgins-Fan]

Giving it to anybody in the Texas secondary this year is a joke.
I gotta agree with that one.

[OU James]

Highlight of my OU/Texas weekend, was on the way to the game seeing his family walk up...his mom with gold teeth and a texas shirt on, with AR's number, and on the back it said "Play Mayka"....priceless

[Herr Scholz]

He had a very good season and deserved the award in my opinion. We don't beat OU or Nebraska without him. He made the big plays in those games and while it's true our team tanked at the end of the season, he obviously had enough in the bank to take it. While you can argue for Nelson, he didn't make the big plays Ross did during the entire season. The only really bad game he had was against KSU. Stats:

73 tackles (3rd on team)
3 forced fumbles (2nd on team)
2 fumble recoveries
5 interceptions
18 pass breakups

http://cache.mackbrown-texasfootball.com//image_lib/ross_aaron_110706_446.jpg

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/000_stats/06/teamcume.htm#TEAM.IND

Just my humble opinion. ;)

[OSUAggie]

Aaron Ross is soft.

[MiccoMacey]

I'm sorry, but anybody who plays in a secondary that is one of the worst in college football doesn't dererve an award.

I know that sounds dangerously close to the other standard which I hate, which is you can only vote for someone to win the Heisman who is on a winning team, but I can't see giving it to Ross.

And yes, Scholz, I'd be saying the same thing if it were a Sooner.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i'm looking through the list of previous winners and the only guy you can compare him too is terrance newman. there aren't many other winners on that list that finished on a team with more than 2 losses.

[OSUAggie]

Didn't Wisky go like 9-4 in '00? (Jamar Fletcher)

[Herr Scholz]

I'm sorry, but anybody who plays in a secondary that is one of the worst in college football doesn't dererve an award.

I know that sounds dangerously close to the other standard which I hate, which is you can only vote for someone to win the Heisman who is on a winning team, but I can't see giving it to Ross.

And yes, Scholz, I'd be saying the same thing if it were a Sooner.
That's fine and I respect your opinion. I would submit it's an individual award and not a team award though. Our team record would have been a couple losses worse without him.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

maybe its a rotating thing - for 4 years it went to the big 10. i wonder if it is because we have ttech?


2005 - Michael Huff, Texas

First player in UT history to win the Jim Thorpe Award. Also named the "Defensive MVP" in helping lead Texas to a national championship in the 2006 Rose Bowl.

2004 - Carlos Rogers, Auburn

Carlos helped Auburn to a 13-0 undefeated season, leading the nation in scoring defense. Finalist for the Nagurski Defensive Player of the Year Award and a consensus All-American.

2003 - Derrick Strait, Oklahoma

Set school records for consecutive starts and holds a career interception record of 397 yards. Third Sooner to receive Thorpe Award (Roy Williams and Rickey Dixon). Also received 2003 Bronko Nagurski Trophy.

2002 - Terance Newman, Kansas State

All-American defensive back, consensus Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. Honorable mention All-American as kick returner.

2001 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma

First Team All-American and consensus Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. Won the Nagurski Award.

2000 - Jamar Fletcher, Wisconsin

A consensus Alll-American and Big 10 Player of the Year in his final season.

1999 - Tyrone Carter, Minnesota

Set an NCAA Record for defensive backs with 528 tackles, 414 of them unassisted.

1998 - Antoine Winfield, Ohio State

Winfield and his fellow defenders limited their opponents to an average of just 12 points per game.

1997 - Charles Woodson, Michigan

A runaway choice, the Wolverine All-American also was the first defensive back to win the Heisman Trophy.

1996 - Lawrence Wright, Florida

Closed out his career by registering a team-high eight tackles to lead the Gators to victory over arch rival Florida State.

1995 - Greg Myers, Colorado State

The first player in history to be named to the Western Athletic Conference All-Conference team four years in a row.

1994 - Chris Hudson, Colorado

Notched 15 interceptions in his four-year career, during which he was one of the most feared and respected cornerbacks in the nation.

1993 - Antonio Langham, Alabama

Three-year starter at cornerback who notched 19 interceptions during this career, breaking a school record.

1992 - Deon Figures, Colorado

Big Eight Defensive Player of the Year. Only 12 passes completed in his territory in 1992 - and half were caught by Deon.

1991 - Terrell Buckley, Flordia State

Broke FSU records for interceptions in a season with 12 and for a career with 21; ran them back for NCAA career record 501 yards and season record 238.

1990 - Daryl Lewis, Arizona

One of the best defensive backs in Arizona history. All-pac 10 and All-American, he collected 14 career interceptions.

1989 - Mark Carrier, USC

America's top freshman defensive back, he was a two-time consensus All-American as a sophomore and junior before skipping his senior season to join the NFL.

1988 - Deion Sanders, Florida State

As a senior, he led the nation in interceptions despite the fact teams rarely threw to his side of the field.

1987 - Bennie Blades, Miami (FL)

Averaged 10 tackles per game as a senior as the Hurricanes claimed the national championship.

1987 - Rickey Dixon, Oklahoma

Big Eight conference Player of the Week four times in 1987, he tied the school record with eight interceptions as a senior.

1986 - Thomas Everett, Baylor

Named Southwest Conference Athlete of the Year for 1986-1987 season; made the NFL's All-Rookie team in 1998.

[Desert Sapper]

As as much as I hate it I must agree on the lone bright spot thing. Michael Griffin started the season as 1 of the top 3 safeties in the country. What a disappointment. IMO he spent too much time trying to cover for his brother and the result was neither one did their job.

I agree. I thought you guys would have a pretty good secondary this year. I knew you would suffer from a lack of Cedric Griffin and Michael Huff, but I thought this would show up more this year:

http://ccn1.net/POTD6/texas-longhorns-national-champions/michael-griffin-interception-rose-bowl.jpg

Ross made ENA pay the price for sloppiness in the second half of the RRS. I think he may have been the best DB in the nation. It was close enough that it doesn't matter. All three of those guys will go in the 1st round. Ross is close to being as good as Vasher and Jammer. I hate the whorns, but I can recognize the talent.

The Thorpe Award has been 5:5 Big XII to other conferences in the last 10 years. 3:7 in the 10 years before that. Big XII teams have faced more passing offenses within the conference in the last 10 years and have had to adjust. That's the bottom line.

This is the list over the last 10 years:

2006 Aaron Ross Texas
2005 Michael Huff Texas
2004 Carlos Rogers Auburn
2003 Derrick Strait Oklahoma
2002 Terrence Newman Kansas St
2001 Roy Williams Oklahoma
2000 Jamar Fletcher Wisconsin
1999 Tyrone Carter Minnesota
1998 Antoine Winfield Ohio St
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan

Who wasn't at least in the top 3 DBs in the country when they won?

[OSUAggie]

I guess Thomas Everett for Baylor was a 30-something rookie in the NFL in 1998?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

A pre-season "watch list" is determined by an analysis of All-American teams listed in various pre-season college football publications. A "Screening Committee" of Jim Thorpe Association members follows and researches the performance of these and other players and then meets on the first Monday in November to narrow the field to 10 or 12 semi-finalists. This committee will meet again on the Monday before Thanksgiving to select the three finalists. The names of these finalists are submitted to a national panel of over 50 sports writers, sportscasters, former players and coaches who vote to determine the winner. The finalists are invited to ESPN's College Football Awards Show, broadcast in December from Disney World in Orlando, Florida. The winner is announced during the broadcast, but the official presentation of the award takes place in February, at a formal banquet in Oklahoma City.

i think this is the problem. i'll guarantee you those 50 voters aren't exactly geographically diverse...

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I guess Thomas Everett for Baylor was a 30-something rookie in the NFL in 1998?

you are dissing typos on a website dedicated to TGJT!!!!!! :mad:

[OSUAggie]

I suppose I am. I'm not afraid of TGJT. Sequoyah would've got it right.

[RedstickSooner]

Couldn't you argue that playing on a *bad* secondary makes the kid even more deserving?

Playing in a good secondary, offenses can't really work as hard to avoid you. Playing with a bunch of loser nancy-boys, offenses simply needed to take note of where he was playing and throw it elsewhere -- the fact that he still got decent stats would seem to indicate that he really played his heart out.

And on top of all of that, he *also* overcame the innate disability which comes with wearing puke orange.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

oh, there they go. there they go. every time I start talkin' 'bout typos on thorpe's website, a tsalgi got to pull sequoyah out their butt. that's their one, that's their one. sequoyah! sequoyah!"

Yeah, but he beat jim thorpe's butt -- even if he was 137 years old.

[MiccoMacey]

That's fine and I respect your opinion. I would submit it's an individual award and not a team award though. Our team record would have been a couple losses worse without him.

It is an individual award, and that's why I'm hesitant about my statement.

But it's not a whole team we're talking about. We're talking about the secondary. I don't remember Okam covering too many WR's.

And I know...it's a "team" defense. But when you've got one of the best rush defenses in the nation, yet your secondary is near the bottom, something's amiss.

Maybe he was trying to do too much, but all I heard over on the "other" Horn board was how the entire secondary was made up of all-stars and we'd be seeing them play on Sunday and yada yada yada. Yet as a group they majorly underachieved on the season as a whole (why oh why did you guys have to pick the OU game to shine???).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Couldn't you argue that playing on a *bad* secondary makes the kid even more deserving?

Playing in a good secondary, offenses can't really work as hard to avoid you. Playing with a bunch of loser nancy-boys, offenses simply needed to take note of where he was playing and throw it elsewhere -- the fact that he still got decent stats would seem to indicate that he really played his heart out.

And on top of all of that, he *also* overcame the innate disability which comes with wearing puke orange.

well, it took him 2 years to qualify. if that is your argument, how do you explain strait?

[MiccoMacey]

oh, there they go. there they go. every time I start talkin' 'bout typos on thorpe's website, a tsalgi got to pull sequoyah out their butt. that's their one, that's their one. sequoyah! sequoyah!"

Yeah, but he beat jim thorpe's butt -- even if he was 137 years old.

F you..f you...f you...who next?

[Desert Sapper]

Maybe he was trying to do too much, but all I heard over on the "other" Horn board was how the entire secondary was made up of all-stars and we'd be seeing them play on Sunday and yada yada yada.

Griffin and Ross have the talent to play on Sundays. Of that I am certain. As I mentioned before the season, however, replacing a tandem like Huff and Cedric Griffin isn't easy for anybody. I never saw the other two DBs step up and play. Sadly, they didn't really have to against OU. Colt McCoy picked RRS to suddenly emerge from VY's shadow. ENA made some bad decisions and Ross made some huge plays -- his second INT was brilliant and the fumble recovery for a TD, although not truly a rear lateral, was an excellent heads-up play and the final nail in the coffin.

Ross won the Thorpe at RRS with plays on 3 of OU's 5 TOs. Without him (and the bad officiating at Oregon), we would have the Golden hat in our trophy case and everybody would be pimping us to play tOSU on 6 January (although I am very, very glad we aren't -- the suckeyes are fo' real).

If we resort to saying that Texas doesn't have the talent on their ball club to be great, we are deluding ourselves. They have lots and lots of talent. As K-State and aTm proved this year, talent isn't everything.

[MiccoMacey]

If we resort to saying that Texas doesn't have the talent on their ball club to be great, we are deluding ourselves. They have lots and lots of talent. As K-State and aTm proved this year, talent isn't everything.

I'm not saying they don't have talent. And I'm not saying Ross didn't play well. It's just hard to justify giving an award to someone who is one/fourth responsible for one of the worst secondaries (at least statistically) in the NCAA.

And as stated before, I'd say the same thing if it were an OU player.

[Desert Sapper]

If an OU DB had 73 tackles, 18 PBU, 10 takeaways, and almost single-handedly won RRS, I'd be pretty p!$$ed if he didn't win the Thorpe award, regardless of a statistical rating that reflects on his entire defensive football team. Ross did what he could, but the whorns lost Cedric Griffin and Michael Huff (who won the award last year), and couldn't recover with the players they had on hand. That doesn't somehow make Ross a worse player. I would give him the award for RRS alone. That was a superhuman effort almost on par with TRRW's 2001 RRS (to include involvement in a fumble that resulted directly in a defensive TD).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

the problem is TGRW had almost a 100 tackles that year and more INTs...

[Desert Sapper]

Well, I'm certainly not saying Ross is anywhere close to being as good as TGRW, but nobody is nor ever will be. Their positions (and the inherent tackles associated with said positions) on their respective football teams at the time of the award is also a little different.

Ross, IMO, was the best I saw this year.

My point was that TGRW performance at RRS 2001 and Ross' performance at RRS this year merit mention in the same sentence. If I heard them call Ross' name one more time in that game, I was going to puke. Then they did, and the best RB in football didn't chase it down, and it was a whorn TD. That guy was superhuman in that game, and he was brilliant for a secondary that wasn't. He's the reason saxet didn't lose more games.

[OK2LA]

F you..f you...f you...who next?

classic. - nice call for both of you jkm/mm

[Herr Scholz]

And I know...it's a "team" defense. But when you've got one of the best rush defenses in the nation, yet your secondary is near the bottom, something's amiss.
I'll tell you what was amiss: our LBs. Undersized and pretty average this year. Didn't help that we had super talents Muckelroy and Kindle banged up a lot of the year (they'll be an upgrade next year). Bobino, Derry and Killebrew were pretty pedestrian.

The dearth of talent wasn't in the secondary (not even with the Griffin twins at safety). Our safeties had to cheat up to help on run support because our LBs weren't getting the job done. This is the reason we got burnt deep so regularly on play action and RB passes. Our safeties were always up. They didn't cheat up in the aggy game and you'll notice our LBs weren't able to stop their rushing game.

I still think Ross deserved this award. It doesn't hurt my feelings for those that criticize it though. I can see their arguments.

[fwsooner22]

I'll tell you what was amiss: our LBs. Undersized and pretty average this year. Didn't help that we had super talents Muckelroy and Kindle banged up a lot of the year (they'll be an upgrade next year). Bobino, Derry and Killebrew were pretty pedestrian.

The dearth of talent wasn't in the secondary (not even with the Griffin twins at safety). Our safeties had to cheat up to help on run support because our LBs weren't getting the job done. This is the reason we got burnt deep so regularly on play action and RB passes. Our safeties were always up. They didn't cheat up in the aggy game and you'll notice our LBs weren't able to stop their rushing game.

I still think Ross deserved this award. It doesn't hurt my feelings for those that criticize it though. I can see their arguments.


I will never understand the lack of depth at UT. Every year you guys get pretty much whoever you want (with a few exceptions) and yet a couple of injuries and you get caught with your pants down. But for your NC year (which had almost no injuries if I remember correctly) there always seems to be a lack of depth. It doesn't add up.

I have little problem with Ross. However, I can understand the argument that there should be no awards for one of the worst secondaries in the Big XII. I wish we would have thrown more against them (away from Ross).

[MiccoMacey]

The dearth of talent wasn't in the secondary (not even with the Griffin twins at safety)...

Did you really just use the words "dearth" and "pedestrian" in the same post on this board?

Show off. :D

[Herr Scholz]

Did you really just use the words "dearth" and "pedestrian" in the same post on this board?

Show off. :D
I sip tea. What do you want? :D

[OK2LA]

I sip tea from a moonshine jug :D

fixed it for ya

[Texas Golfer]

I have no problem with Ross winning the Thorpe. Hell, we practically gave it to him in October. He could have probably sat out the rest of the season and not hurt his chances after that game.

[BIG_IKE]

Texas problem this season in all honesty was injuries....

2005 Team Injuries
-Selvin Young a few games
-Jamal Charles a few games

Then I remember a couple of guys getting banged up in the NC game...


2006 Games missed due to Injury

Selvin Young-1
Jamal charles- 1
Lokey-4
Robison-1
Okam-1
Muckelroy-9
Kindle-2
Kelson-3
Michael Griffin-2
Dockery- 6
Charles-1
Brown-1

Plus you had games where players were put out for the rest of the game

McCoy
Killebrew
Griffin
Blalock.


Thats the big difference between last years team. They stayed healthy.
If anyone is foolish enough to think the Whorns sucked this year, then they dont know much about football. Aside from QB, they were evry bit as good as last year at most positions.

The difference is they were extremely healthy all season last year.