A question for the SO political types:

[Mixer!]

For the last six years following the 2000 election, it seems there was no end to the number of news stories about voting irregularities and that not every vote had been counted. Six years later, the demos have grabbed the reins of power from the repubs, and seemingly overnight, all the news accounts of dangling chads, minority voter suppression, and e-vote flipping stopped.


Does this mean that the problems have been solved? If so, why is nobody talking about it? :pop:

[royalfan5]

Nothing good will come of this thread. YWIA

[Petro-Sooner]

:D

[Mongo]

Nothing good will come of this thread. YWIA

Five pages +

:pop:

[olevetonahill]

For the last six years following the 2000 election, it seems there was no end to the number of news stories about voting irregularities and that not every vote had been counted. Six years later, the demos have grabbed the reins of power from the repubs, and seemingly overnight, all the news accounts of dangling chads, minority voter suppression, and e-vote flipping stopped.


Does this mean that the problems have been solved? If so, why is nobody talking about it? :pop:
Yes all problems have been solved
Now does it make a big rats *** ? No !

[OUinFLA]

Im just happy we are not talking about Florida.
:D

[usmc-sooner]

they had a show on about the Electoral College not to long ago, and they said said that almost 85% of voter fraud went in favor of the Dems.

I mean come on, do you really think anyone with a brain wanted Al Gore to run the country? Do your homework even fmr Pres. Clinton couldn't stand him.

[tbl]

It is interesting that there were no outcries anywhere...

[SoonerTitan]

We need to get rid of the electorial college IMO and I think voting is going ok but we ALL should vote more. I do wish there was some way we could vote online the numbers would go up dramatically (only if it was safe and tamper proof of course).

[Petro-Sooner]

Tamper Proof. Would that even be possible?

[SoonerTitan]

Tamper Proof. Would that even be possible?Probably not but maybe someday it will be possible.

[PhilTLL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_general_elections%2C_2006#Election_i rregularities

Those relatively minor incidents aside, if someone thinks they got screwed in an election, it's their job to raise hell about it, and the election board's job to investigate. If I recall, there were some congressional races that were undecided for a week or two, so there were at least recounts in some locations. Media takes their cue from candidates and election boards in the weeks just after the election, not the opposite. Muckraking comes later, as the 2004 election is being picked and prodded now.

Edit: "In a small town in Oklahoma, a power outage in a polling station was caused by a squirrel gnawing on a power cable.[36]" Nice

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We need to get rid of the electorial college IMO and I think voting is going ok but we ALL should vote more. I do wish there was some way we could vote online the numbers would go up dramatically (only if it was safe and tamper proof of course).are you serious?

[Sooner_Havok]

are you serious?

No kidding, could you imagine letting the American people directly vote for their president! :rolleyes:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No kidding, could you imagine letting the American people directly vote for their president! :rolleyes: I'm referring to "we should all vote more".:rolleyes: (Besides, what's your beef about the electoral college system?)

[Ike]

see, unfortunately, since nobody wants to hear the vote and e-vote stories, they aren't really carried by the major news that much anymore.



But there are still plenty out there.

in Sarasota county florida, there were ~18,000 missing votes in the congressional race there, where the race was decided by something like 400 votes. These votes had no paper trail.
http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/061110floridaevoting/

In an Arkansas mayoral race, one candidate lost a 3 way election 18 to 18 to zero. He voted for himself.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003405767_zero12.html

The Election Protection coalition logged 12,300 calls regarding voting irregularities on election day...some regarded machines, others didn't. some of them included :

Pennsylvania

*
Report from Allegheny: Three people have not been able to go through all the screens on the voting machine. Each was stopped in a different place.

Ohio

* There were widespread problems with voting machines and confusion implementing the state’s photo ID requirement, Election Protects reports.

Washington State

*
A voting judge in Washington state telephoned to say that he received a voicemail from a woman purporting to be Maria Cantwell which instructed him to vote in the wrong precinct.

Illinois

* An election judge failed to show up in Will County, and a polling place remained closed an hour after opening time, EP reports.
* Numerous reports of machine failures and poll workers who were unable to operate voting machines in Cook County have led EP to ask officials to extend voting hours.

Florida

* There were no paper ballots while voting machines failed in one predominantly African American Deerfield Beach precinct, keeping the polling place from opening for three and a half hours, EP reports. EP attorneys are working to extend voting hours.
http://www.ep365.org/site/c.fnKGIMNtEoG/b.2232255/k.AB55/Election_Protection_Update_1.htm


There were some, but it doesn't appear that the voting irregularities this term were a huge deal (to the media at least)...however don't for a minute think that any of the problems have been solved. Because they haven't. As far as the e-voting machines go, they are just as insecure and potentially dangerous as they were before. It just seems that they weren't exploited as much as they could be this time around. Or at least thats the case as far as we know. Many of the voting machines used around the country can be tampered with in order to rig an election without leaving a trace. This has been demonstrated with a few machines. (in fact, with every single machine security experts have been able to get a hold of to test) So if there was some fraud going on, we may never know. The paper ballots are only a good cross check of the machinery if a recount is performed, and the likelihood of that is small.


As far as other vote fraud techniques not involving the technology, I am a little less versed in those (and somewhat less concerned about due to the low number of votes one person can influence that way compared with the machines), but I'm sure the same amount of that happened as has always happened.

[Sooner_Havok]

I'm referring to "we should all vote more".:rolleyes: (Besides, what's your beef about the electoral college system?)


It served it's purpose back in the day, but it has out lived its usefulness. Honestly, it doesn't have a purpose anymore. Why not just have direct elections?

[SoonerProphet]

We are not a democracy, we are a republic. The founding fathers were not thrilled with direct democracy and rightfully so.

[jk the sooner fan]

getting rid of the electoral college = bad idea

[Jerk]

uhhhh...we are not a 'democracy,' we are a 'constitutional republic.' By getting rid of the electorial college, you let the major urban centers dictate who wins elections. I think I'd rather see the U.S. split up rather than go to direct democracy.

You know what democracy is? It's when the majority gets to strip the rights of the minority and vote themselves their "stuff."

I think the Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.

Direct election of senators is another mistake we made, but that's another subject.

[OklahomaTuba]

Does this mean that the problems have been solved? If so, why is nobody talking about it? :pop:

Cause the media finally got the election results they wanted.

[SoonerTitan]

Rush I meant people don't use their right to vote as much as we should. The vote should go direct to the people and I can't believe some people think that's a bad thing. That's whats wrong with this country.

[Jerk]

Rush I meant people don't use their right to vote as much as we should. The vote should go direct to the people and I can't believe some people think that's a bad thing. That's whats wrong with this country.

That's all nice and dandy until a majority figure out that they can vote themselves a peice of the treasury.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That's all nice and dandy until a majority figure out that they can vote themselves a peice of the treasury.This is, IMO, the FUNDAMENTAL flaw we have, and we're dangerously close to that issue wrecking the country.

[Ike]

a little DIY here:

Did you know: It is mathematically impossible to design a voting system which satisfies ALL criteria of fairness. Something has to be sacrificed.....


unless there are only two choices.

[soonerscuba]

This is, IMO, the FUNDAMENTAL flaw we have, and we're dangerously close to that issue wrecking the country.

This is true, I fear there will be a time when we get into a trillion dollar boondoggle with no way out. It would be a real kick in the balls if the Dems ever did something like that.

To all of you pining to the days of the founders. Well, the founders did some pretty damned stupid stuff. Which is to be expected. But to suggest that the founders laid some perfect model of government and we got away from it need to be hit in the head until they realize that a spineless SCOTUS and 5,000 Congressmen would probably suck way worse than it already does. I would suggest that I know what the founders intent was, but that would make me a blow-hard pretending to know something I don't. The founders are dead, and between 1812, the Civil War, the Labor Movement, WWI, The Great Depression, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, trickle-down, tax and spend, a Dow at 10,000 and 9/11, so are their ideas.

As for voter fraud. It's bad. Why is this a political issue again?

[Jerk]

This is true, I fear there will be a time when we get into a trillion dollar boondoggle with no way out. It would be a real kick in the balls if the Dems ever did something like that.

To all of you pining to the days of the founders. Well, the founders did some pretty damned stupid stuff. Which is to be expected. But to suggest that the founders laid some perfect model of government and we got away from it need to be hit in the head until they realize that a spineless SCOTUS and 5,000 Congressmen would probably suck way worse than it already does. I would suggest that I know what the founders intent was, but that would make me a blow-hard pretending to know something I don't. The founders are dead, and between 1812, the Civil War, the Labor Movement, WWI, The Great Depression, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, trickle-down, tax and spend, a Dow at 10,000 and 9/11, so are their ideas.

As for voter fraud. It's bad. Why is this a political issue again?

Their ideas aren't dead, but they are under constant attack.

I think they had some simple ideas:

-limited government
-individual liberty
-due process
-fair representation
-private property rights
How could I forget..the good ol' Second Amendment!

Sure, they weren't perfect. We didn't end slavery until 1863. We didn't give women the right to vote until 1920. Segregation ended in the 1950s. But tell me where else people can live and 'pursue their happiness' like they can in the good ol' USA.

ps- Socialism is the worst form of tyranny upon the individual.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Their ideas aren't dead, but they are under constant attack.

I think they had some simple ideas:

-limited government
-individual liberty
-due process
-fair representation
-private property rights

Sure, they weren't perfect. But tell me where else people can live and 'pursue their happiness' like they can in the good ol' USA.

ps- Socialism is the worst form of tyranny upon the individual.Now, do we really need any more political threads after this one? No, but how quickly some will forget, or deny. Too bad the NEA and other unions don't have this thread as required reading.

[Jerk]

Ah, good ol' private property rights.

Thanks for adding that.

Sic Em understands my beliefs on this better than I do. Where in Sam Hell is he, anyway? Is he getting drunk on Zima and running off to Branson again?

[TUSooner]

Five pages +

:pop:
Yep, but STILL nothing good.

[TUSooner]

I think there have always been voting "irregularities" ; there still are some,; and there probaby always will be, especially where voters are poor and uneducated. Poor uneducated people are generally Dem's constituency, so they howl the most when their folks can't get it all together.
JMHO

[Ike]

I think there have always been voting "irregularities" ; there still are some,; and there probaby always will be, especially where voters are poor and uneducated. Poor uneducated people are generally Dem's constituency, so they howl the most when their folks can't get it all together.
JMHO


True. However, I posit that the dangers of e-vote fraud are far and away more severe than the voting irregularities that have gone on to date. Most of the voting irregularities that occur to date affect individual polling places, which is really a small number of people. One of the big problems with e-voting is that, especially with no paper trail (but also even if one exists and no recount of the paper ballots is ordered, which is most cases), one well placed individual can influence the results of a whole county, or district, or even state....often without leaving a trace. and by influence, I mean that they can effectively decide the outcome regardless of what the people say, simply by planting one piece of malicious code in the master vote tabulation machine. In some cases, depending on the machinery used of course, this person may not even need to have access to the master vote tabulator....just a minute or so alone with a single voting machine....like when they go to vote themselves...or any other number of ways...


very few of the voting irregularities experienced by our country to date have had this kind of power over the voting process.


I don't claim that this has ever happened...yet, because there is no evidence that it has. The danger is that in many hypothetical cases is that the only way to ever get evidence that this has occurred is for the person responsible to grow a conscience.

[Stoop Dawg]

Since most of you consider me a "liberal", I just wanted to add that I agree with everything Jerk has said in this thread so far.

Take that.

[Poli Sci]

For the last six years following the 2000 election, it seems there was no end to the number of news stories about voting irregularities and that not every vote had been counted. Six years later, the demos have grabbed the reins of power from the repubs, and seemingly overnight, all the news accounts of dangling chads, minority voter suppression, and e-vote flipping stopped.


Does this mean that the problems have been solved? If so, why is nobody talking about it? :pop:

Nobody is going to complain when the Democrats win. They were looking for loop holes to get Al Gorge the victory. Still to this day I have yet to see any evidence that Gore won in Florida.

[Vaevictis]

This is true, I fear there will be a time when we get into a trillion dollar boondoggle with no way out.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1083/iraqpol2004kz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Also, Social Security and Medicare.

Been there, done that. Got the T-Shirt.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Nobody is going to complain when the Democrats win. They were looking for loop holes to get Al Gorge the victory. Still to this day I have yet to see any evidence that Gore won in Florida.I see ya got red spec so far. I started out that way, and don't know how I ever got into the green, with so many libz on this message board.(not that it matters much)

[Jerk]

Actually, Stoop Dawg, those beliefs were considered liberal in 1776.

[Mixer!]

Five pages +

:pop:
Not unless your settings are for 7 posts/page, doomas.

Carry on, everyone.