The punt before "The Drive"

[Okie Hillbilly]

On the Nebraska punt before our 99 yard drive, the NU gunner touched the ball at the one yard line, but did not down and control it. It went back upfield and was downed at the 3 by another NU player. I thought the ball would be placed at the 3, but was obviously placed at the 1. Can someone explain that rule and is it different than it used to be or different than in NFL?

[Frozen Sooner]

On the Nebraska punt before our 99 yard drive, the NU gunner touched the ball at the one yard line, but did not down and control it. It went back upfield and was downed at the 3 by another NU player. I thought the ball would be placed at the 3, but was obviously placed at the 1. Can someone explain that rule and is it different than it used to be or different than in NFL?

You know, I think you're right.

The ball was dead at the three. OU had the option of taking the ball at the spot of the illegal touch by Nebraska or at the dead-ball spot.

I'll have to rewatch to get the exact spots.

[Widescreen]

I don't think it mattered much. IIRC, we had a "half-the-distance-to-the-goal" penalty in that sequence.

[soonersam]

didnt we lose 2 yards on first down

[Okie Hillbilly]

Don't remember a penalty, I just remember the play-by-play announcer wanting a safety on the second down run.

[devOUt]

A 99 yard drive sounds so much better than a 97 yard drive.

[sanantoniosooner]

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=263360201&quarter=3

this doesn't help much

[TheLlama]

Should have been at the 3 Im pretty sure. We then got the penalty so it didnt matter much.

[TopDawg]

I think the college rule is different from the NFL rule in this case.

I believe that in college, it's wherever the ball is first touched. In the NFL it's wherever the ball is "controlled" (provided isn't not pushed into better field position for the kicking team).

For instance, when we played at Tulsa a few years back, one of our gunners caught the ball near the 1 yard line on the run and just continued into the endzone. The ball was down where he first touched it. In the NFL, that would've resulted in a touchback.

The interesting thing to me about that play is that on the replay it appeared to me that the gunner stepped out of bounds before downing the ball. I'm not sure if he was forced out or not, but if he wasn't, it should've been a penalty if he was the first person to touch the ball after coming back into the field of play, right?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I noticed that as well. I thought if you were out of bounds, you were not eligible to return as a player for that play. When they didn't call it, I though that maybe that only counted for receivers...

Then again, this ref crew sucked arse and didn't call anything against Nebbish the whole game.

[opksooner]

On a punt, the ball is marked down where the first touch by the punting team occurs.

...or sumpin' like dat

[Hatfield]

you can leave the field of play and as long as you reestablish your position in the playing field you are fine to touch it.

[sanantoniosooner]

Once you leave the field of play you are an ineligible receiver unless the ball is touched first by someone else.

[StoopTroup]

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=263360201&quarter=3

this doesn't help much
That also says Brody Eldrige made the 3rd and 10 catch and it was Gresham.


OKLAHOMA SOONERS drive start at 04:46 (3rd).
O 1-10 O01 Thompson, Paul pass incomplete to Kelly, Malcolm.
O 2-10 O01 Brown, Chris rush up middle for no gain to the OU1 (Octavien, Steve).
O 3-10 O01 Thompson, Paul pass complete to Gresham, Jermai for 35 yards to the OU36, 1ST DOWN OU, out-of-bounds (Green, Tierre).
O 1-10 O36 Thompson, Paul pass complete to Iglesias, Juaqu for 22 yards to the NU42, 1ST DOWN OU, out-of-bounds (Bradley, Stewar).
O 1-10 N42 Thompson, Paul pass complete to Kelly, Malcolm for 9 yards to the NU33, out-of-bounds (Grixby, Cortney).
O 2-1 N33 Patrick, Allen rush over left guard for 2 yards to the NU31, 1ST DOWN OU (Octavien, Steve;McKeon, Corey).
O 1-10 N31 Thompson, Paul pass complete to Tennell, Adron for 15 yards to the NU16, 1ST DOWN OU, out-of-bounds (Grixby, Cortney).
O 1-10 N16 Thompson, Paul pass complete to Kelly, Malcolm for 11 yards to the NU5, 1ST DOWN OU, out-of-bounds (Grixby, Cortney).
O 1-G N05 Patrick, Allen rush over right end for 2 yards to the NU3 (McKeon, Corey;Dagunduro, Ola).
O 2-G N03 Thompson, Paul pass incomplete to Zaslaw, Dane.
O 3-G N03 Thompson, Paul pass complete to Kelly, Malcolm for 3 yards to the NU0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 01:25.
O 1-G N03 Timeout Nebraska, clock 01:25.
Hartley, Garret kick attempt good.

[Frozen Sooner]

The college rule is that on a Team A punt, if a Team A player touches the ball before a Team B player, Team B has the option of taking the ball at the spot of the touch or where the ball becomes dead.

When a Team A player controls the ball on an illegal touch, the ball is dead. However, the ball is still live if it is not controlled. I'll have to watch the play again-the referee may have ruled that the Nebraska player demonstrated control by throwing the ball into the field of play.

[Widescreen]

Or, more likely, this could've been yet another screw job by the corrupt officials. WHY DO THEY HATE US SO MUCH????!?!!!!?!?

[Frozen Sooner]

Or, more likely, this could've been yet another screw job by the corrupt officials. WHY DO THEY HATE US SO MUCH????!?!!!!?!?

If I had a live chicken, I'd slap you in the face with it right now.

:D

[sanantoniosooner]

I wish we could settle this once and for all.

The officials are doing the best they can.

It's not their fault the rule book says "If in doubt, screw OU"

[BoomerSooner247]

A 99 yard drive sounds so much better than a 97 yard drive.i second that. it doesn't matter anyways, we scored when we needed to and made their D look bad at the same time.

[CU Sooner]

I noticed that as well. I thought if you were out of bounds, you were not eligible to return as a player for that play. When they didn't call it, I though that maybe that only counted for receivers...

Then again, this ref crew sucked arse and didn't call anything against Nebbish the whole game.

No kidding, cornshuckers were holding all night long, I counted at least 5 takedowns and one that cost us two points when Taylor threw out of the end zone we had a guy break free and get grabbed around the waist. It was so bad my wife called one before I could. I think the problem was the 2000 K-State rule where we fought through the hold so there was no penalty.

[Miko]

It's not their fault the rule book says "If in doubt, screw OU"

I assume you are kidding. The "If in doubt" part isn't really in there is it??:D

[arlington]

In college it is wherever the ball is touched first..My only problem with the play was that the gunner was out of bounds, stepped back in to knock the ball down..Since he was the first person to make contact with the ball as he jumped in bounds, the ball should not have been spotted at the 1 but been a touchback

[sanantoniosooner]

In college it is wherever the ball is touched first..My only problem with the play was that the gunner was out of bounds, stepped back in to knock the ball down..Since he was the first person to make contact with the ball as he jumped in bounds, the ball should not have been spotted at the 1 but been a touchback
the out of bounds thing only matters for eligible receivers.

It wasn't a pass.

[Frozen Sooner]

In college it is wherever the ball is touched first..My only problem with the play was that the gunner was out of bounds, stepped back in to knock the ball down..Since he was the first person to make contact with the ball as he jumped in bounds, the ball should not have been spotted at the 1 but been a touchback

1. No, it's not. Team B has the option of taking the ball at the spot of the illegal touch or at the dead ball spot.

2. Incorrect. The foul would be an illegal touch, and it's already an illegal touch for a Team A player to be the first to touch the ball. Regardless, there is not a yardage markoff for an illegal touch on a kick.

[Alum81]

I noticed that as well. I thought if you were out of bounds, you were not eligible to return as a player for that play. When they didn't call it, I though that maybe that only counted for receivers...

Then again, this ref crew sucked arse and didn't call anything against Nebbish the whole game.

Actually:

Team Stat Comparison
Nebraska Oklahoma
1st Downs 17 13
3rd down efficiency 3-15 4-15
4th down efficiency 1-3 0-1
Total Yards 366 307
Passing 282 265
Comp-Att 23-50 19-35
Yards per pass 5.6 7.6
Rushing 84 42
Rushing Attempts 21 28
Yards per rush 4.0 1.5
Penalties 5-24 3-25

Nebraska was penalized more than we were. However, I agree they could have been called for holding at least 30 more times!

[shavedmarmoset]

you can leave the field of play and as long as you reestablish your position in the playing field you are fine to touch it.

What does that even mean?

[TopDawg]

1. No, it's not. Team B has the option of taking the ball at the spot of the illegal touch or at the dead ball spot.

2. Incorrect. The foul would be an illegal touch, and it's already an illegal touch for a Team A player to be the first to touch the ball. Regardless, there is not a yardage markoff for an illegal touch on a kick.

Regarding #2, according to the following rule (which is found in the "Kicks" section of the rule book), it would be a penalty:


Out-of-Bounds Player
ARTICLE 12. No Team A player who goes out of bounds during a scrimmage
kick down may return inbounds during the down (Exception: This
does not apply to a Team A player who is blocked out of bounds and
attempts to return inbounds immediately).
PENALTY—Live-ball foul. Five yards from the previous spot [S19].

Team A is the kicking team, so the only thing I can guess is that the official (a) didn't see him go out of bounds, (b) thought he was forced out, or (c) doesn't know the rules.

[Frozen Sooner]

Fair enough-thanks for posting that.

Ball should have been spotted at the 6.

[sanantoniosooner]

Fair enough-thanks for posting that.

Ball should have been spotted at the 6.
I guess we are assuming that he wasn't forced out?

[Frozen Sooner]

I guess we are assuming that he wasn't forced out?

I watched it at lunch. I don't think he was. Even if he was, he didn't immediately return inbounds.

[sanantoniosooner]

I just watched the whole game again also. I'll have to check it out specifically.

Though I'm wondering why we are so worried about it.

[TopDawg]

Fair enough-thanks for posting that.

Ball should have been spotted at the 6.

It looks like it would've been a five yard penalty from the previous line of scrimmage and a replay of the down.

Is that the same series of plays (I'm pretty sure it is) where we blocked a FG on a delay of game, forcing them to try to go for it instead of kicking a FG, at which point they were flagged for a false start, forcing them to punt instead of go for it. Would've been great if they would've flagged them for the illegal touch and made them re-kick again.

But then we wouldn't have The Drive. So in this case, I'm glad they screwed it up.

Oh, also, something was jacked up earlier on the NCAA's rules website so the rule I posted was from the 2003 edition, which was the most recent one I could get to work. So maybe it's different now, but I imagine it's the same.

[Frozen Sooner]

Man, I'm just having a bad day at rules interpretation.

Yes, based on what you quoted, it's a declineable five-yard penalty from the previous spot and replay of down.

Going to rewatch the play right now to see if the dude got blocked out.

And no, it wasn't on the drive with the delay of game on the blocked kick.

[TopDawg]

If I remember right, it's hard to tell if he was blocked out. I don't remember seeing a camera angle that showed that. In the clip I saw, you could just see enough to see him coming back onto the field of play. I believe you could see his foot on the boundary line. I don't remember seeing anything about how he ended up there, but I don't remember seeing any Sooners near him either.

Let us know what you see.

[Frozen Sooner]

OK, looks like he wasn't blocked out of bounds, but the official that would normally have that call was watching the ball to see if it broke the plane. He only stepped out by a bit and the ref just couldn't have seen it with the angle on the play.

Missed call.

He may have been blocked out of bounds upfield by Holmes, but they don't show the contact on screen and Holmes was a good bit upfield from him.

[TopDawg]

OK, looks like he wasn't blocked out of bounds, but the official that would normally have that call was watching the ball to see if it broke the plane. He only stepped out by a bit and the ref just couldn't have seen it with the angle on the play.

Missed call.

He may have been blocked out of bounds upfield by Holmes, but they don't show the contact on screen and Holmes was a good bit upfield from him.

Yeah, I figured it would've been a tough call since he did have to keep one eye on the ball.

I know I've heard something about this rule before, but it may just be an NFL thing. If a player is blocked out of bounds, he must hastily return to the field of play. I'd think that wouldn't be the case in this situation since Lendy was so far upfield. It looked to me like he just accidentally stepped on the line when he was trying to put on the brakes and cut toward the ball.

[MiccoMacey]

I'm glad it happened the way it did.

Makes it just that much more "meaningful".

99 yards versus 94 yards. Can't beat a 99 yard drive.