Urban Meyer sucks

[Sooner in Tampa]

I hate the way Urban cried all the way into the BCS title game. Get ready for this to happen everytime we two teams trying to get into the title game. The voters just showed that they can be swayed into letting some crying a$$ coach have his way.

This is not a matter of who belongs...Michigan or Florida (for the record I think Florida should be in the game) but this is a bad precedent. Florida is there, but I personally think that Urban is a crying beyotch!!! I hope that tOUS stomps a mud hole in there a$$.

[Vaevictis]

The precedent was set by Mack a few years ago, actually. Remember when he campaigned for the BCS at large berth over Cal?

It kind of sucks that it has come to this, but the fact of the matter is -- when you really drop all pretense -- the job of the coach is to get the best result on the season possible. If that means politicking your way into the best Bowl Game you can, you know they're going to do it.

... and as bad as that may be, you know that the coaches are going to get financially rewarded for successfully doing so, so it's not just going to continue, it's going to become more widespread until somebody (read: NCAA/BCS/etc) does something about it.

And I'm not certain that this particular instance shows that the voters can be swayed. The Texas/Cal incident certainly did, but I would not be suprised at all if a lot of the voters were waiting on Florida to win the SEC CCG to see if they deserved to be moved up.

[JohnnyMack]

You think he's a crybaby. Fine.

Do you REALLY think he had an influence over how the final BCS rankings ended up?

[Rocker]

I like Urban Meyer I will never have to hear from a Florida fans hoping Stoops goes to coach at Florida anymore.

[Sooner in Tampa]

You think he's a crybaby. Fine.

Do you REALLY think he had an influence over how the final BCS rankings ended up?I think that his crying AND the fact that the voters did not want to see a rematch.

I just hope that Bob NEVAR resorts to something like that.

[tigepilot]

I think it's amazing that the national media didn't call him out for whinning the way they did Bob Stoops after the Oregon game.

And, yes I do think Meyer's whinning helps since it appears that it got nearly all the talking heads on his side virtually lobying for him. Florida is not the second best team... I'll be shocked if they can play within 3 points of Ohio State in the shoe... much less on a nuetral field in Pheonix.

[crimson&cream]

I think that his crying AND the fact that the voters did not want to see a rematch.

I just hope that Bob NEVAR resorts to something like that.
Your right and how unfair was that to Mich that they don't get into the NC only because many didn't want a rematch. MIch loses by 3 pts to the # 1 team and Florida loses to Auburn.
Glad back in 78 when Nebr beat us in Lincoln and were headed to the OB that voters weren't involved in their opponets decision for the OB or we wouldn't have had the opportunity to whip their butts the 2nd time around. One of the most classic looks on a person's face was Osbourne when the OB committee told him who their opponent would be- OU. It was hilarious.

[crimson&cream]

I think it's amazing that the national media didn't call him out for whinning the way they did Bob Stoops after the Oregon game.

And, yes I do think Meyer's whinning helps since it appears that it got nearly all the talking heads on his side virtually lobying for him. Florida is not the second best team... I'll be shocked if they can play within 3 points of Ohio State in the shoe... much less on a nuetral field in Pheonix.
I'm not sure I quite understand you first para as Stoops didn't crybaby, I don't think it can be shown he ever has over the fiasco.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I'm not sure I quite understand you first para as Stoops didn't crybaby, I don't think it can be shown he ever has over the fiasco.I think he was refering to how the national media "implied" that Stoops was a crybaby over the Qwack loss...which was totally unfair, because Bob took the high road.

[JohnnyMack]

I think it's amazing that the national media didn't call him out for whinning the way they did Bob Stoops after the Oregon game.


When did that happen?

[GrapevineSooner]

Stoops didn't get called out for whining.

Boren did.

[badger]

Mack whined? Remember when they went to the Rose Bowl for the first time? He said something like this...

Mack: Please please please send Texas to the Rose Bowl. The guys deserve it, especially my boy Vince Young. I fantacize about him covered in roses and... VOTE TEXAS FOR ROSE BOWL!

and then, that's what started the coach's poll having to reveal final votes, because several coaches jumped Texas over the next qualifying team.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The precedent was set by Mack a few years ago, actually. Remember when he campaigned for the BCS at large berth over Cal?

It kind of sucks that it has come to this, but the fact of the matter is -- when you really drop all pretense -- the job of the coach is to get the best result on the season possible. If that means politicking your way into the best Bowl Game you can, you know they're going to do it.

... and as bad as that may be, you know that the coaches are going to get financially rewarded for successfully doing so, so it's not just going to continue, it's going to become more widespread until somebody (read: NCAA/BCS/etc) does something about it.

And I'm not certain that this particular instance shows that the voters can be swayed. The Texas/Cal incident certainly did, but I would not be suprised at all if a lot of the voters were waiting on Florida to win the SEC CCG to see if they deserved to be moved up.

dude, you obviously don't remember the whining before the 2000 OB. between bowden, davis, and neuheisel it was pretty sickening...

[Sooner in Tampa]

dude, you obviously don't remember the whining before the 2000 OB. between bowden, davis, and neuheisel it was pretty sickening...heh...it got a kick out of the skippy reference.

What a beyotch he was too.

[Vaevictis]

dude, you obviously don't remember the whining before the 2000 OB. between bowden, davis, and neuheisel it was pretty sickening...

C'mon, Mack is a Longhorn. Can't we at least pretend it's all his fault? :D

Okay, so I stand corrected. Not all Mack's fault.

But the other points remain -- coaches will get financially rewarded for this behavior, so this stuff will continue to happen until there's a rule against it.

[Sooner in Tampa]

But the other points remain -- coaches will get financially rewarded for this behavior, so this stuff will continue to happen until there's a rule against it.Or until someone whines and cries and DOESN'T get their way.

[badger]

detroit free press says...
The Bowl Championship Series is a true test -- of personality.

Every year a controversy begins brewing about a month from the announcement date of the BCS teams. Many football coaches turn into politicians.

Florida coach Urban Meyer began spinning his message after Michigan remained No. 2 in the BCS standings following its Nov. 18 loss at Ohio State. Meyer campaigned all the way through Saturday.

Michigan coach Lloyd Carr and Southern Cal coach Pete Carroll tried to avoid the controversy, talking about their team without denigrating an opponent.

But Meyer's commentary, which changed from week to week, might have been enough to raise his team's profile.

After U-M's loss in Columbus, Meyer said of a possible BCS title game rematch: "If that does happen, all the presidents need to get together immediately and put together a playoff system." His point of emphasis? It wasn't "fair" to Ohio State.

He continued last week, after a close victory over Florida State, attacking commentators and analysts' assertion that the Gators needed "style points" to gain ground on U-M and USC. His new point? It wasn't fair to evaluate "style," i.e. margin of victory.

And after Saturday's Southeastern Conference championship game, when his team had won its title, his song on ESPN was "you'd think the conference champion should have the opportunity to go play for a national championship."

All those comments didn't sit well with Carr.

"I think it's going to be a great controversy, I don't care who gets selected," Carr said on his weekly TV show, "Michigan Replay," broadcast Sunday morning. "I just think that based on some of the comments the Florida coach has made in the last two weeks, he has been campaigning strenuously for a berth in the championship game and making some statements about Michigan that I think were inappropriate. That certainly is going to stir a controversy and who knows what that's going to lead to."

Carr also said on his show: "I'm not going to get into politicking because I don't think it's something I would do or that Michigan would do. But I just hope that it works out that the two best teams are there."

Michigan needed USC to lose Saturday to UCLA. It was a large recruiting weekend for the Wolverines, and Carr was entertaining recruits during the game.

"We had a great group there on the second floor of the Union," he said. "But as that game wound down to the last 8-9 minutes, every play, it was like the end of a Michigan game. It's certainly the first time in a Michigan recruiting visit that we watched a game that somebody else, besides Michigan, was playing in."

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

in 2000, it was like this...

OU
FSU who lost to
miami who lost to
washington who lost to
oregon state who lost to i have no idea

[OSUHeifer]

Urban kinda looks like an older Gavin Rossdale.

[TUSooner]

I don't care how deserving Fla is; Urban Meyer has lowered himself by whining. I hope the Buckeyes win big.

[TopDawg]

I haven't heard what Meyer said. Can someone show me his quotes?

[TUSooner]

I haven't heard what Meyer said. Can someone show me his quotes?
What do you want FACTS for ?!?!
We're piling on Urban here, and we don't need distractions like "what he really said" and stuff. Sheesh. Try to keep up!

:D

[OUinFLA]

I don't care how deserving Fla is; Urban Meyer has lowered himself by whining. I hope the Buckeyes win big.


Why do you hate the State of Florida, where Presidential elections are won and/or lost?

[mdklatt]

I hate the way Urban cried all the way into the BCS title game. Get ready for this to happen everytime we two teams trying to get into the title game.

You make this sound like it's something new.

[Luthor]

The precedent was set by Mack a few years ago, actually. Remember when he campaigned for the BCS at large berth over Cal?

It kind of sucks that it has come to this, but the fact of the matter is -- when you really drop all pretense -- the job of the coach is to get the best result on the season possible. If that means politicking your way into the best Bowl Game you can, you know they're going to do it.

... and as bad as that may be, you know that the coaches are going to get financially rewarded for successfully doing so, so it's not just going to continue, it's going to become more widespread until somebody (read: NCAA/BCS/etc) does something about it.

And I'm not certain that this particular instance shows that the voters can be swayed. The Texas/Cal incident certainly did, but I would not be suprised at all if a lot of the voters were waiting on Florida to win the SEC CCG to see if they deserved to be moved up.

All of the crying, posturing, lobbying, etc will continue until /unless we get a play off system that precludes all of the horse $hit. Schools like Texas and OU don't need to play in 3rd tier bowl games to keep the doors open but aparently some of the little chicken crap D1 schools do. Therefore, everything that is being bemoaned on this thread will continue perpetually.

[TUSooner]

All of the crying, posturing, lobbying, etc will continue until /unless we get a play off system that precludes all of the horse $hit. Schools like Texas and OU don't need to play in 3rd tier bowl games to keep the doors open but aparently some of the little chicken crap D1 schools do. Therefore, everything that is being bemoaned on this thread will continue perpetually.
I don't see any playoff eliminating this whining and BS completely. If the BCS -- or its successor -- were to pick the top 4 teams for a playoff. #s 4 thru 6 would whine. If they chose 8 teams, then 7 thru 9 would whine, and so on and on. STILL, I'd much rather see 4 or 8 teams with a shot at winning the title on the field instead of just 2. I think we will see something like this this within a decade, provided that the major bowls keep their roles and the lesser bowls stay in business to reward the decent temas that can't get to the top 8 or so.

[TopDawg]

I don't see any playoff eliminating this whining and BS completely. If the BCS -- or its successor -- were to pick the top 4 teams for a playoff. #s 4 thru 6 would whine. If they chose 8 teams, then 7 thru 9 would whine, and so on and on. STILL, I'd much rather see 4 or 8 teams with a shot at winning the title on the field instead of just 2. I think we will see something like this this within a decade, provided that the major bowls keep their roles and the lesser bowls stay in business to reward the decent temas that can't get to the top 8 or so.

I agree. And if this was an 8-team playoff year, I can imagine Coach Stoops having some similar words encouraging the voters to put us in the playoff. And if he didn't, I'd be upset.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I haven't heard what Meyer said. Can someone show me his quotes?
This was after the win against the pigs


"We're going to tell a group of young men who just went 12-1 with the most difficult schedule against six ranked opponents that they don't have a chance to go play for a national championship?" Florida (http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/team/86097) coach Urban Meyer asked incredulously. "I'm going to need help with that one."

He was anti-playoff...until this years


"I think I'm getting pretty close to going thumbs up with (a playoff system)," Meyer said Monday. "The question is who are these people and why are they deciding the fates of young 21-year-old players


"I think an SEC (http://www.gatorsports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?template=wiki&text=Southeastern_Conference) school will be in that championship game at the end of the day," Meyer said. "I think the SEC (http://www.gatorsports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?template=wiki&text=Southeastern_Conference) champion will be playing for the championship."

Not exact quote, but a reference to Urbies whining act.


In fact, Meyer has been quite candid about the BCS for several weeks now, insisting that Michigan didn't deserve another chance at Ohio State after losing the Buckeyes in their regular-season finale.

Who is Meyer to decide if Michigan deserves another shot?

[OUinFLA]

Who is Meyer to decide if Michigan deserves another shot?

Well..............He did get to vote.
:D

[Vaevictis]

If they chose 8 teams, then 7 thru 9 would whine, and so on and on.

IMO, that's an easy problem to deal with.

Eligible conferences get to nominate X teams into playoff spots. If you're not in a conference, and you're unwilling to join an eligible conference, then suck it Notre Dame.

If you're not one of the nominated teams, well, that's between you and your conference. The national playoff system has no hand in that.

[Scott D]

I haven't heard what Meyer said. Can someone show me his quotes?


"If that does happen, all the (university) presidents need to get together immediately and put together a playoff system. I mean like now, January or whenever to get that done." in regards to a potential rematch.

He then took shots at USC, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and Boise State as being non deserving to go to the title game. (all were one loss or undefeated at the time)

When he was at Utah he griped about the BCS and how the Utes deserved a chance to play. After bolting them from them to Florida, I think it was 6 months later he said the Utes had no business being in a BCS Bowl.

Meyer is a hypocrite who'd stab his own mother if it'd get him his dream job.

[Stitch Face]

Reorganize the 12 conferences into 16, maybe tack on a few more of the bigger II-A schools if need be. Every team plays every other team in their conference. The conference champs go to the playoff. No polls, anywhere.

[SicEmBaylor]

I like Urban Meyer I will never have to hear from a Florida fans hoping Stoops goes to coach at Florida anymore.


True. Now you just have to worry about Alabama fans saying the same thing.

[TXBOOMER]

Urban never whined. He campaigned. If I were a player, I would be ****ed if my coach didn't do some campaigning. After K State kicked OUr arse Bob did a little campaigning to get us in the Sugar Bowl. I remember him talking about it shouldn't matter if your loss comes at the beginning or at the end of the year etc. I didn't blame him and I don't blame Urban.

P.S. I hate the f*****g Big 10 + noter dane. I'll even be cheering for the molester to beat the shat OUt of noter dane.

Boomer Sooner

[Stitch Face]

Les Miles is now coaching in a bowl against Notre Dame.


Weird.

I mean, I know ND is a has-been and all, but...weird.

[OSUSam]

If Boren would've whined a little more about the Oregon deal, I am sure OU would be heading for Glendale right about now.

[Texas Golfer]

You think he's a crybaby. Fine.

Do you REALLY think he had an influence over how the final BCS rankings ended up?

Something influenced the coaches and Harris pollsters to change their vote from Michigan to Florida. I think maybe some may have changed because of their performance in their championship game, but there was a 64 point swing from last weekend to this weekend.

[Geekboy]

Coaches under the current system will have to whine to get their teams where they want them.

Until we get away from polls and go strictly by conferences whether it be conference championships or winning conferences outright and going to a playoff it's not going to change.

I believe Stoops and OU after the Oregon crap should have lobbied!!!!
OU was cheated!! You can say all you want about taking the upper road but with the BCS crap the way it's set up now you can't help but politic for your team.

Scrap the polls. Go to a playoff between conferences and let the national championship be decided on the field. And don't give me that 'academic' bullcrap!!! EVER OTHER SPORT DECIDES IT ON THE FIELD!!!!
You can still keep your precious bowls and rotate them or whatever.
Polls are a joke and always have been.

Do you honestly believe any coach has watched any of these games and made an educated decision? You think that drunk dumbass Howard Schelly (LSU #15/OU #18) made an educated decision and he in no way has an agenda?????

GET REAL!!!!!!!

That's why they call it a 'mythical national championship" and it's the only sport that does that. It's pathetic.

These college presidents AND these pathetic officials are the single most disgusting thing that ruin college football.

We watch because we love our teams but in the back of our minds we know it's ALL bulls@#$t!!!

Believe me, I am very happy about LSU being ranked #4 in the nation not winning our conference and going to a BCS bowl (Sugar). I'm not denying that's a gift!

But let's get real here. OU got the biggest screwing of a program that I've seen in years because of this insane system. That system being a brotherhood of officials that are beyond criticism without fines because they are above scrutiny! This is absolute crap!!! These idiots potentially cost programs thousands if not millions of dollars.......but oh no.......we mustn't criticise them without you getting your *** fined!!!!!!

PATHETIC BEYOND COMPREHENSION!!

I'm not getting into the Michigan/Florida debate. There are good and valid points on both sides of that argument. This system now is pathetically flawed. It's not going to get better.

Oh wow!!! I wonder what the viewer ratings for the Orange Bowl will be this year!! You KNOW that privately the Orange Bowl officials can't stop throwing up with this scenerio!

What a pathetic joke.

[Texas Golfer]

I don't care how deserving Fla is; Urban Meyer has lowered himself by whining. I hope the Buckeyes win big.

I hate Ohio State but I, too, hope they crush the Gators by, at least, 35 points.

[Texas Golfer]

Coaches under the current system will have to whine to get their teams where they want them.

Until we get away from polls and go strictly by conferences whether it be conference championships or winning conferences outright and going to a playoff it's not going to change.

I believe Stoops and OU after the Oregon crap should have lobbied!!!!
OU was cheated!! You can say all you want about taking the upper road but with the BCS crap the way it's set up now you can't help but politic for your team.

Scrap the polls. Go to a playoff between conferences and let the national championship be decided on the field. And don't give me that 'academic' bullcrap!!! EVER OTHER SPORT DECIDES IT ON THE FIELD!!!!
You can still keep your precious bowls and rotate them or whatever.
Polls are a joke and always have been.

Do you honestly believe any coach has watched any of these games and made an educated decision? You think that drunk dumbass Howard Schelly (LSU #15/OU #18) made an educated decision and he in no way has an agenda?????

GET REAL!!!!!!!

That's why they call it a 'mythical national championship" and it's the only sport that does that. It's pathetic.

These college presidents AND these pathetic officials are the single most disgusting thing that ruin college football.

We watch because we love our teams but in the back of our minds we know it's ALL bulls@#$t!!!

Believe me, I am very happy about LSU being ranked #4 in the nation not winning our conference and going to a BCS bowl (Sugar). I'm not denying that's a gift!

But let's get real here. OU got the biggest screwing of a program that I've seen in years because of this insane system. That system being a brotherhood of officials that are beyond criticism without fines because they are above scrutiny! This is absolute crap!!! These idiots potentially cost programs thousands if not millions of dollars.......but oh no.......we mustn't criticise them without you getting your *** fined!!!!!!

PATHETIC BEYOND COMPREHENSION!!

I'm not getting into the Michigan/Florida debate. There are good and valid points on both sides of that argument. This system now is pathetically flawed. It's not going to get better.

Oh wow!!! I wonder what the viewer ratings for the Orange Bowl will be this year!! You KNOW that privately the Orange Bowl officials can't stop throwing up with this scenerio!

What a pathetic joke.

I think a playoff would ruin college football. But I'd like to rid ourselves of anything bias (polling and officiating). The BCS should be a 100% computerized system with certain criteria in which every team has to compete under (Strength of Schedule, Style Points, etc.). No whining, no complaining, no campaigning.

[OUinFLA]

Polls are a joke and always have been.



Wow, you just put a bunch of Bama fans into shock.
What are they gonna do with all those t-shirts claiming 243 champeeenships?

[soonerloyal]

I'm no fan of either the Gators or the Buckeyes. If FL upsets Ohio State, I won't cry one bit. But it just might be OS's year. We had our last one in 2000, Texas *shudder* had theirs last year.

God willing, they won't have another for 30 years.

[Geekboy]

I think a playoff would ruin college football. But I'd like to rid ourselves of anything bias (polling and officiating). The BCS should be a 100% computerized system with certain criteria in which every team has to compete under (Strength of Schedule, Style Points, etc.). No whining, no complaining, no campaigning.
Texas, college football is 'ruined' under this system. Because of the protected 'officials' OU is where it is today. They don't have to answer for their screwups! Under a decent system the Oregon game would have been overturned and rightfully so! You would be in the hunt! How can you say a playoff would ruin college football?

Answer this............how would it be ruined? You like the 'mythical' of the system today? Explain in detail how a playoff and having the championship being decided on the field of play would 'ruin' college football. I am waiting for your argument. I await an educated argument here. Why is EVERY SINGLE other sport.....college (lower division), pro, etc. decided and set up and 'reasonably' decided on an elimination or playoff system but not the top division in college football?

Please explain this to me. How is the current BCS system 'fair?'

What if Rutgers went undeated this year? Why isn't Boise State that is undefeated not playing in the national championship yet they are part of the BCS system? They didn't lose a game but they can't participate. Why is that? What else do the supposed 'lower conferences' have to do to get in?
Oh wait......unless everyone else in the 'upper and more elite conferences' lose one or more games lose a game them 'maybe' the Boise States or Rutgers have a shot? Explain how that works?

Maybe if those teams (Boise States, Rutgers, etc.) were in the Big 12 or Big 10 or SEC then MAYBE they would be considered. Otherwise their participation is a joke. Notre Dame is an independent. What if Rutgers was an independent and went undefeated. Oh wait.....their not Notre Dame so it's different!

Get real. The system is a farce.

We like it in college basketball when a cinderella team makes a run in the NCAA tournament at has a shot at the big league school. But oh no.....not in college football! We must protect the big guys and the other lower schools should be looked down upon.

Don't get me wrong, I hope OU beats Boise State by 100 points and puts things in perspective but don't say they a BCS contenders and then penalize them even thought they go undefeated. A playoff would put an end to this nonsense and clearly define what conferences are what.

I await your logical arguement.

[Geekboy]

I think a playoff would ruin college football. But I'd like to rid ourselves of anything bias (polling and officiating). The BCS should be a 100% computerized system with certain criteria in which every team has to compete under (Strength of Schedule, Style Points, etc.). No whining, no complaining, no campaigning.
Double post. Sorry.

[Scott D]

I await your double answers to his logical argument :)

I also await your answer to Meyer being a backstabbing prick who'd kill his own mother for a dream job.

[BigHouseDon]

I await your double answers to his logical argument :)

I also await your answer to Meyer being a backstabbing prick who'd kill his own mother for a dream job.


I admit to being a tad bit biased..... I can't think of a single arguement for either question...


BHD

[badger]

Sooner Nation,

I move that furthermore, any mentions of "Urban Meyer" shall be thus refered to as "Urban Whiner," in tribute to his whining ways.

Do I have a second?

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm not a fan of the playoff system either. I don't have a logical reason why the current bowl system is more fair than a playoff (I don't think it is), but I like the tradition of bowl games.

[Geekboy]

I await your double answers to his logical argument :)

I also await your answer to Meyer being a backstabbing prick who'd kill his own mother for a dream job.
Scott, there's no question Meyer is a backstabbing prick. But I don't blame him for lobbying. Carr passively agressively argued after Meyer came out!
The BCS is set up to cause these problems. It doesn't end with these guys as long as this system is in place.

As I said, if I were Stoops after the Oregon debacle I'd be bitching to high heaven! You can say all you want about the 'upper road' but when you have dumbass officials in the multiple leagues like we do now you can't help but lobby. I wouldn't sit back and be all high and mighty! I'd fight for my kids (players) to the end! Maybe I'm wrong. These kids bleed and endure pain to play this game. I'd do everything I could to fight against this piece of S**t system.

[royalfan5]

I'm not a fan of the playoff system either. I don't have a logical reason why the current bowl system is more fair than a playoff (I don't think it is), but I like the tradition of bowl games.
If your going to have bowl games for every team but Baylor, why couldn't the teams not in the playoffs still go to Shreveport and Birmingham and Boise in December. You could throw a bone to the BCS sites and host playoff games there.

[SicEmBaylor]

If your going to have bowl games for every team but Baylor, why couldn't the teams not in the playoffs still go to Shreveport and Birmingham and Boise in December. You could throw a bone to the BCS sites and host playoff games there.

What like the NIT of college football?

[royalfan5]

What like the NIT of college football?
That's pretty much what they are now. Even Okie State goes to bowls on semi-regular basis.

[BigHouseDon]

Sooner Nation,

I move that furthermore, any mentions of "Urban Meyer" shall be thus refered to as "Urban Whiner," in tribute to his whining ways.

Do I have a second?



Not a bad Idea, I like Urban Creyer too.



BHD

[Geekboy]

I'm not a fan of the playoff system either. I don't have a logical reason why the current bowl system is more fair than a playoff (I don't think it is), but I like the tradition of bowl games.
The bowl games can still be a part of the tradition in a playoff system.
The bowls would not go away.

There are many sites that deal with many scenerios where a playoff or elimination tournament could work and still incorporate the bowls.

I admit that while watching the games this Saturday it was somewhat fascinating wondering how the polls would deal with the situation. While it was interesting to speculate I still realized it was seriously flawed and not fair at all! It was interesting because you were speculating on the bias of voters rather than having a clearly defined and logical system in place that wouldnt' take bias and humans and computers into consideration.

Why aren't there polls in the NFL? Why is there no voting in the NFL?
You don't have to speculate in the NFL. It's a won/loss system and it's totally decided on the field and flawed and biased humans are taken out of the equation. Gee.......that doesn't seem fair does it?

[mdklatt]

Please explain this to me. How is the current BCS system 'fair?'



It's not supposed to be fair. It's supposed to be an improvement to the traditional bowl and poll system, which it is...although not so much since they keep dicking with it to increase the influence of human voters.

[sooneron]

If Boren would've whined a little more about the Oregon deal, I am sure OU would be heading for Glendale right about now.
Hush little aggy, we're talking championships here. Run along now. Back to the kiddie table.

[Texas Golfer]

Texas, college football is 'ruined' under this system. Because of the protected 'officials' OU is where it is today. They don't have to answer for their screwups! Under a decent system the Oregon game would have been overturned and rightfully so! You would be in the hunt! How can you say a playoff would ruin college football?

Answer this............how would it be ruined? You like the 'mythical' of the system today? Explain in detail how a playoff and having the championship being decided on the field of play would 'ruin' college football. I am waiting for your argument. I await an educated argument here. Why is EVERY SINGLE other sport.....college (lower division), pro, etc. decided and set up and 'reasonably' decided on an elimination or playoff system but not the top division in college football?

Please explain this to me. How is the current BCS system 'fair?'

We've been under a polling system since college football began. It generates more discussions than any other sport. Everyone talks about college football throughout the year whereas nobody discusses basketball or baseball until the season begins and, perhaps, a month or so after the season is over.

Also with basketball and baseball, so many games are played throughout the year, a loss here or there really makes little difference. A loss in a football season could be disasterous. So, in a sense, the season is a 12 game playoff.

Also, in a basketball or baseball playoff, the teams play on one day and then can play on the very next day. Fans stay and make a vacation out of it. Not so in football. Travel requirements and ticket prices would prevent most fans from making the games.

Bowl games are exciting. The teams spend the entire week at the bowl site and make a vacation of sorts. In a playoff, they'd arrive the night before and leave almost immediately afterwards.

I could go on.

What if Rutgers went undeated this year? Why isn't Boise State that is undefeated not playing in the national championship yet they are part of the BCS system? They didn't lose a game but they can't participate. Why is that? What else do the supposed 'lower conferences' have to do to get in?
Oh wait......unless everyone else in the 'upper and more elite conferences' lose one or more games lose a game them 'maybe' the Boise States or Rutgers have a shot? Explain how that works?

When the pollsters are selecting their rankings, the criteria is, in their opinion, list, in order, who they believe is the best, not whose record is the best. I seldom agree with the order but I do enjoy the discussions it generates.

Maybe if those teams (Boise States, Rutgers, etc.) were in the Big 12 or Big 10 or SEC then MAYBE they would be considered. Otherwise their participation is a joke. Notre Dame is an independent. What if Rutgers was an independent and went undefeated. Oh wait.....their not Notre Dame so it's different!

The only reason their participation is a "joke" is because they rarely get up there nor stay up there. Traditionally, they are not as strong as the majors but that doesn't mean that they can't periodically form a great team.

Get real. The system is a farce.

The only think that makes is a farce is the biases that humans generate. I'd like to see a completely computerized system where the criteria (strength of schedule, style points, etc.) is plugged in and everyone competes under that criteria.

We like it in college basketball when a cinderella team makes a run in the NCAA tournament at has a shot at the big league school. But oh no.....not in college football! We must protect the big guys and the other lower schools should be looked down upon.

This is BS! Almost everyone is talking about the successes of Boise State, Rutgers, Louisville, and Wake Forest and are damn happy to be doing so.

Don't get me wrong, I hope OU beats Boise State by 100 points and puts things in perspective but don't say they a BCS contenders and then penalize them even thought they go undefeated. A playoff would put an end to this nonsense and clearly define what conferences are what.

I, too, hope the Sooners beat Boise State by 100. But nobody is penalizing BSU for going undefeated. In fact, the opposite is true. If they weren't undefeated, they wouldn't be playing OU in the Fiesta Bowl. But again, it's about the best teams, not just the teams with the best records. Who you play has to be a major factor in determining rankings.

I await your logical arguement.

Wait no more.

See how much fun our discussion is generating? A playoff would eliminate this fun.

[Geekboy]

See how much fun our discussion is generating? A playoff would eliminate this fun.
This discussion is fun until your team gets screwed.

[Geekboy]

See how much fun our discussion is generating? A playoff would eliminate this fun.
If you prefer 'fun discussion' over a fair and clearly defined system.....then I can't argue with you. You've got what you want. I'm happy for you.

[Geekboy]

It's not supposed to be fair.
Enough said. Let's keep it unfair.

[Geekboy]

It's not supposed to be fair. It's supposed to be an improvement to the traditional bowl and poll system, which it is...although not so much since they keep dicking with it to increase the influence of human voters.
While we are at it.......let's also make sure not to critcize the officials or else you'll be fined. So don't you dare say anything at all critical about the officiating of the OU/Oregon game. Yes, the PAC 10 did come out and I guess apologize for the 'mistake.' That should be enough. Now....get over it.
Yeah, right.

[Texas Golfer]

The bowl games can still be a part of the tradition in a playoff system.
The bowls would not go away.

Ah, but the bowls would go away. They'd merely be game sites. Gone would be the hoopla and the weeklong festivities before the bowls. Teams would arrive the night before and leave immediately afterwards. Fans would be doing the same. Stadiums would be less than capacity because not many fans would be able to afford the multiple trips and ticket prices. Not only would the bowls lose money, but the cities in which they are located would, as well.

With the current bowl system, the teams arrive a week early as do many of the fans and spend big bucks!

There are many sites that deal with many scenerios where a playoff or elimination tournament could work and still incorporate the bowls.

The bowls would not participate. They may rent their stadiums but they wouldn't spend the advertising dollars and they wouldn't get the sponsorships they currently do.

I admit that while watching the games this Saturday it was somewhat fascinating wondering how the polls would deal with the situation. While it was interesting to speculate I still realized it was seriously flawed and not fair at all! It was interesting because you were speculating on the bias of voters rather than having a clearly defined and logical system in place that wouldnt' take bias and humans and computers into consideration.

Fair? Not hardly. But life isn't fair. Who told you that it was? Well, they lied to you. It isn't fair. Get over it.

I hate the biases! I'd like to see a replay system that allows the booth official to review and change any and all calls on the field. For example, Gordon Riese said, although he saw Allen Patrick recover the onside kick for OU, he wasn't allowed to tell the field refs even though they asked because it wasn't in his perview. I don't believe him but, if that is true, the system is flawed. The right call should be made at all costs.

Because of these biases (just look at how the pollsters voted - the biases were very clear in the individual results), I'd like to rid ourselves of the human element and strictly use a comuterized system with approved criteria.

Why aren't there polls in the NFL? Why is there no voting in the NFL?
You don't have to speculate in the NFL. It's a won/loss system and it's totally decided on the field and flawed and biased humans are taken out of the equation. Gee.......that doesn't seem fair does it?

Please! You really didn't just try and compare the NCAA with the NFL!

There's no recruiting in the NFL. There's no draft in the NCAA. Because of this, there's more parity in the NFL. NFL teams play each other throughout the year and some play the same teams twice. Not so in the NCAA unless it's a conference championship game or a bowl game, in which cases, it's a rarity.

There's also less interest in the NFL versus the NCAA. The TV rankings support this argument. There's also, usually, only 2 televised NFL games on any given day in a particular market. NCAA games are televised all damn day long!

Please don't try and compare the NFL with the NCAA again. I wasted good beer by spitting it on the keyboard and may now have to replace it.

[birddog]

i'm with geekboy, i'd rather see an 8 team playoff than talk about whether or not the system works. stupid argument.

it's real fun waiting 50 days to see a championship game between 2 teams.

i'd take us as an 8 seed and take my chances against tOSU rather than play one game against boise.

so, we shouldn't have a chance to play our way to an nc after winning 8 straight to end the year?

[TopDawg]

Guess I just don't see what Urban was doing as "whining."

But if that is "whining", it seems to me like many of you are whining about his whining.

[Geekboy]

Let's look at another scenerio that has taken place with this 'fun discussion' that I guess seems 'fair.'

I'm an LSU hack. LSU if ranked fourth in the nation. Why is that?
LSU didn't even win the SEC West division. Are they ranked so high because the voters thought LSU got screwed with the pass interference call in the Auburn game? We lost two games to two teams that were ranked in the top ten at their stadiums when we got beat. (Auburn and Florida). We lost to Auburn because of a questionable call? Yes....No.....maybe. It's open to interpretation according to those that vote.

Yet we are ranked fourth. Why is OU ranked lower when they clearly got screwed in the Oregon game and lost to Texas when they were ranked in the top ten at the time.

The 'opinion' is because LSU is 'really' a better team than thought even though we (LSU) won on the last drive to Tennessee at Tennesee and won on a fourth down play against a clearly inferior Ole Miss team.

But gee whiz......isn't this a 'fun discussion?'

Believe me.......being a LSU hack I'm glad we are going to a BCS bowl game.
But why are we higher in the polls than OU? Because of bias and opinion that doesn't quite seem to make sense even though the Pac-10 apologized for the pathetic call against OU? Since OU got an apology that makes everything okay so therefore you aren't in the national championship hunt?

The officiating sucks. OU got screwed badly. LSU got screwed but not as clearly as OU got screwed but this if 'fun discussion' isn't it?

Isn't 'tradition' great? Isn't 'fun discussion' and speculation great regardless of the screw jobs?

Doesn't Notre Dame deserve to be in a BCS bowl even though they clearly got their asses handed to them twice this year but because they are Notre Dame and they are living in the past it's okay? Screw Wisconsin and what they have done today or a West Virginia. Screw them because they dont' have the tradition or glory of what a team did in the early 1900's or they didn't have a coach named Knute.

Oh wait.....let's see.....the Ohio State/Michigan game this year was billed at the game that would determine which team would go to the national championship game. That game wasn't as close as the score indicated even the though Michigan scored way to late to matter. But wait.......Michigan didn't win their conference but maybe we should to a 'do over.'
Even though it was billed as the deciding 'national championship' advancing game since it's Michigan let's give them another shot at it on a neutral field and if they should win that game over Ohio State then Ohio State shouldn't dare ask for a best out of three situation since this is a 'fun discussion.'

USC had to be up for Notre Dame and up for California etc. and they stumbled against an inferior UCLA team. But for 'fun discussion' they should still have a shot at the national championship? Why not. Because they 'lost late in the season?' It's okay to lose early in the season but not late in the season.

Oh wait...the NFL doesn't do this. The lower division college football teams don't do this. College basketball or baseball doesn't do this. Pro baseball or basketball doesn't do this. I wonder why this is? It's because they rightfully don't give crap about 'fun discussion' because 'fun discussion' is nonsense!!!!

You know what? I've decided after looking at certain past seasons and taking into account situations that are beyond most peoples understanding that LSU has in reality won 12 national championships! Who is to say that my very valid opinions are not more worthy than a bunch of agenda driven voters?
It's fun discussion and I take offense to any arguements to the contrary.

[Geekboy]

Please don't try and compare the NFL with the NCAA again. I wasted good beer by spitting it on the keyboard and may now have to replace it.
While I agree that college football is clearly greater than the NFL because the college kids play for pride and the NFL players play for money......explain why the different systems setup between the two made you spit on your keyboard.

[Texas Golfer]

i'm with geekboy, i'd rather see an 8 team playoff than talk about whether or not the system works. stupid argument.

it's real fun waiting 50 days to see a championship game between 2 teams.

i'd take us as an 8 seed and take my chances against tOSU rather than play one game against boise.

so, we shouldn't have a chance to play our way to an nc after winning 8 straight to end the year?

The same arguments would be there if we were ranked #9 and left out.

Also, the pollsters would just manipulate their rankings so their favorite teams would play even lesser teams. For example, the top coaches may vote themselves #1, and all teams with less than .500 records for #2 - #25 to help their chances to draw a lesser team in the playoff.

If there is any human biases at all involved in the selection of participating playoff teams, the system wouldn't work. You'd have to only allow conference champions. to participate. Let's say, for sake of argument, that Michigan lost to Ohio State in the first game and worked their way back up to #2 and wasn't allowed to compete for the championship because they didn't win their conference. You don't think there'd be just as much arguing and complaining about the system? Yet a team from C-USA could?

There is no system that wouldn't generate an argument.

[Geekboy]

There is no system that wouldn't generate an argument.
Duh......yes there is a system that wouldn't generate an argument.
Do what the pros do. Make the conferences like the NFC and AFC divisions.
End of arguement. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[birddog]

i think #3 has a much more valid argument than #9. You don't?

[Geekboy]

Here's a fun brain experiment, Texas. Take the night to think about this and come back tomorrow with your reply. Whatever your reply is I'll give and go with you.

Let's pretend FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT that for the last one hundred years of college football there was a system in place like the pros where each conference was set up sort of like an NFC/AFC system where only won and loss records mattered. Let's say for 'fun discussion' that each year the conferences rotated in a playoff system based on won/loss records where one year the winner of the PAC-10 played the winner for the Big 12 and the winner of the SEC played the winner of the Big 10 conference etc., etc.
Then the next year you could have the winner of the PAC-10 play the winner of the SEC and the winner of the Big 12 play the winner of the Big 10 and let's include the ACC the WAC and all the other conferences and let's try and find a 'wild card' scenerio also.

Let's say that after a hundred years of that then we decided today in the year 2006 that we've decided not to do that anymore and just have polls and sports writers and the coaches of teams (that don't really watch the games anyway because they are to busy with coaching their teams) and oh yeah, let's throw in some computers and let all that decide who plays who to decide the national champions.

Let's say the NFL next year decided no more mathematical win/loss scenerios.
The NFL has decided to go to a poll procedure that includes writers and coaches and computers to decide who goes to the SuperBowl.

And the decision would be because it would make for 'fun discussion.'

Do you honestly believe this would be accepted by the fans and would be okay?

If you can answer this logically and let me reiterate.....I don't give a damn about 'tradition' then I will go with your argument.

I'm done.

[Texas Golfer]

Let's look at another scenerio that has taken place with this 'fun discussion' that I guess seems 'fair.'

I'm an LSU hack. LSU if ranked fourth in the nation. Why is that?
LSU didn't even win the SEC West division. Are they ranked so high because the voters thought LSU got screwed with the pass interference call in the Auburn game? We lost two games to two teams that were ranked in the top ten at their stadiums when we got beat. (Auburn and Florida). We lost to Auburn because of a questionable call? Yes....No.....maybe. It's open to interpretation according to those that vote.

I don't think "the call" really had anything to do with it. Pollsters see who you beat and who beat you. Period.

Yet we are ranked fourth. Why is OU ranked lower when they clearly got screwed in the Oregon game and lost to Texas when they were ranked in the top ten at the time.

It's all about respect. OU dropped in the polls even before the first game. When it was announced that Bomar and Quinn were kicked off the team, OU dropped five places in the preseason poll. After we won our first game, we dropped five more. We win and we drop five places!

We lose to Oregon (nobody cared that we really beat them), we dropped three more places while they gained six spots. After we beat Texas Tech, one voter dropped us to #24 in his poll because the last score he heard was we were down by 14. He assumed we lost when, if fact, we won by 10. What? He doesn't know how to read a newspaper?

Even after we went on the extended winning streak, we'd move up 1 spot (maybe) after each win. Some weeks, we didn't move even though we played three ranked teams in succession (two of them on their turf).

It was only after UT lost to A&M and we beating OSU for the conference championship chance did we move up in the polls (and other teams above us started losing). Then, after beating another ranked team for the championship, we're still below the Pac-10 champion (who lost to yet another unranked team).

It's all about respect and we have gotten little to none this year. I think a lot of it has to do with disappointing so many when we were touted as the "best team ever assembled" a couple of years back. We lost respect and haven't seemed to have gotten it back.

The 'opinion' is because LSU is 'really' a better team than thought even though we (LSU) won on the last drive to Tennessee at Tennesee and won on a fourth down play against a clearly inferior Ole Miss team.

But gee whiz......isn't this a 'fun discussion?'

I'm having fun. You're not?

Believe me.......being a LSU hack I'm glad we are going to a BCS bowl game.
But why are we higher in the polls than OU? Because of bias and opinion that doesn't quite seem to make sense even though the Pac-10 apologized for the pathetic call against OU? Since OU got an apology that makes everything okay so therefore you aren't in the national championship hunt?

I believe I answered why LSU is ranked higher. It also has to do with the media's respect for the SEC and lack of respect for the Big XII.

As for the Pac-10 apology...nobody cares, not even me. Their apology and $2-3 could maybe get me a gallon of gas.

The officiating sucks. OU got screwed badly. LSU got screwed but not as clearly as OU got screwed but this if 'fun discussion' isn't it?

I don't know who got screwed more, OU against Oregon this year or Missouri against Colorado a few years ago when the Buffalos got 5 downs.

I'm still having fun.

Isn't 'tradition' great? Isn't 'fun discussion' and speculation great regardless of the screw jobs?

Doesn't Notre Dame deserve to be in a BCS bowl even though they clearly got their asses handed to them twice this year but because they are Notre Dame and they are living in the past it's okay? Screw Wisconsin and what they have done today or a West Virginia. Screw them because they dont' have the tradition or glory of what a team did in the early 1900's or they didn't have a coach named Knute.

I think you're placing too much emphasis on traditions. It that were the case, even an undefeated Boise State wouldn't be in consideration for anything nevertheless a BCS bowl. Neither would Rutgers or Wake Forest.

But Notre Dame sucks. Wisconsin and West Virginia are #3 in their conferences and the BCS allows no more than two teams from the same conference. It has nothing to do with their lack of tradition.

Oh wait.....let's see.....the Ohio State/Michigan game this year was billed at the game that would determine which team would go to the national championship game. That game wasn't as close as the score indicated even the though Michigan scored way to late to matter. But wait.......Michigan didn't win their conference but maybe we should to a 'do over.'
Even though it was billed as the deciding 'national championship' advancing game since it's Michigan let's give them another shot at it on a neutral field and if they should win that game over Ohio State then Ohio State shouldn't dare ask for a best out of three situation since this is a 'fun discussion.'

Psssst. I don't know if you heard but Michigan is not getting another chance.

USC had to be up for Notre Dame and up for California etc. and they stumbled against an inferior UCLA team. But for 'fun discussion' they should still have a shot at the national championship? Why not. Because they 'lost late in the season?' It's okay to lose early in the season but not late in the season.

No, USC is not there only because they lost late in the season. They're not there because they lost to two unranked teams.

Oh wait...the NFL doesn't do this. The lower division college football teams don't do this. College basketball or baseball doesn't do this. Pro baseball or basketball doesn't do this. I wonder why this is? It's because they rightfully don't give crap about 'fun discussion' because 'fun discussion' is nonsense!!!!

Oh, no. There goes the keyboard again. He's trying to compare the NCAA with the NFL. Who gives a damn about the lower division college football teams other than the lower division college football teams and their fans? Nobody. End of discussion (fun or otherwise). I've already discussed how losing in basketball or baseball with the number of games they play has an insignificant role in the polls. And now, you're discussing pro basketball and pro baseball?

Fun discussions are nonsense? If you're not having fun. Go away and do something that is fun for you. I really think you are getting too worked up over this.

You know what? I've decided after looking at certain past seasons and taking into account situations that are beyond most peoples understanding that LSU has in reality won 12 national championships! Who is to say that my very valid opinions are not more worthy than a bunch of agenda driven voters?
It's fun discussion and I take offense to any arguements to the contrary.

Only 12? Come back when LSU has as many national championships as OU.

Seriously, Geek. If you don't enjoy talking about college football, don't.

[Texas Golfer]

Duh......yes there is a system that wouldn't generate an argument.
Do what the pros do. Make the conferences like the NFC and AFC divisions.
End of arguement. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

It not hard to understand that it wouldn't work because, with the NFL, the players are payed. There's a cap on spending. They draft players. They don't recruit them. The players don't get a chance to pick and choose their teams. All teams have the same amount of players. They have the same payroll budget.

Because of this, there's more parity in the NFL than there is in the NCAA. I can't believe you are STILL trying to compare the NCAA and the NFL.

[Texas Golfer]

i think #3 has a much more valid argument than #9. You don't?

Not really. Had USC won, there'd be no discussion on who's #3. The top 2 would have been the same and that would have been all that mattered. Last year, nobody argued that USC and UT weren't the best two teams in the country.

But the waters get a little muddier when you get towards the bottom of the top 10. There'd be a lot of arguments from #9 and #10.

[Geekboy]

Gotta say Texas your answers are pretty lame.

The lower division college teams and college basketball and baseball don't seem to have a problem with a playoff.

Oh, by the way, I love talking Div. 1 college football and it would be even more fun if there were a playoff with the bowls being rotated and involved.
And it's also been proven many times over that they would actually make MORE money if they went to this system.

Believe me Texas, it's coming one day and you will be proven totally wrong and the old system and the current BCS system will be laughed at down the road.

[Texas Golfer]

Here's a fun brain experiment, Texas. Take the night to think about this and come back tomorrow with your reply. Whatever your reply is I'll give and go with you.

Let's pretend FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT that for the last one hundred years of college football there was a system in place like the pros where each conference was set up sort of like an NFC/AFC system where only won and loss records mattered. Let's say for 'fun discussion' that each year the conferences rotated in a playoff system based on won/loss records where one year the winner of the PAC-10 played the winner for the Big 12 and the winner of the SEC played the winner of the Big 10 conference etc., etc.
Then the next year you could have the winner of the PAC-10 play the winner of the SEC and the winner of the Big 12 play the winner of the Big 10 and let's include the ACC the WAC and all the other conferences and let's try and find a 'wild card' scenerio also.

Let's say that after a hundred years of that then we decided today in the year 2006 that we've decided not to do that anymore and just have polls and sports writers and the coaches of teams (that don't really watch the games anyway because they are to busy with coaching their teams) and oh yeah, let's throw in some computers and let all that decide who plays who to decide the national champions.

Let's say the NFL next year decided no more mathematical win/loss scenerios.
The NFL has decided to go to a poll procedure that includes writers and coaches and computers to decide who goes to the SuperBowl.

And the decision would be because it would make for 'fun discussion.'

Do you honestly believe this would be accepted by the fans and would be okay?

If you can answer this logically and let me reiterate.....I don't give a damn about 'tradition' then I will go with your argument.

I'm done.

I don't need to wait until tomorrow. It won't work because the NFL and the NCAA aren't set up the same. I've already shown you this on numerous occasions but, for some reason, you're unable to grasp the concept of parity.

It won't work. It wouldn't be accepted by the fans. It wouldn't be okay.

I've never mentioned schools' traditions. I don't give a damn about what a school did last year when it comes to the polls this year.

[TopDawg]

Last year, nobody argued that USC and UT weren't the best two teams in the country.


In the 8-year history of the BCS, last year was the ONLY year there wasn't a controversy. Let's not pretend like it's the norm.

[bryantdenny38]

UM can cry all the crocodile tears he wants, but Auburn is the team that really got jobbed by the BCS. they beat Florida AND LSU....

[Geekboy]

. There's a cap on spending.
Is there a salary cap in pro baseball?

[TopDawg]

I don't need to wait until tomorrow. It won't work because the NFL and the NCAA aren't set up the same. I've already shown you this on numerous occasions but, for some reason, you're unable to grasp the concept of parity.


Is there parity in other divisions of NCAA football?

[Texas Golfer]

Gotta say Texas your answers are pretty lame.

You're entitled to your ridiculous opinion.

The lower division college teams and college basketball and baseball don't seem to have a problem with a playoff.

They live and play with the systems they've been given as do the Div 1 teams.

Oh, by the way, I love talking Div. 1 college football and it would be even more fun if there were a playoff with the bowls being rotated and involved.
And it's also been proven many times over that they would actually make MORE money if they went to this system.

They'd even make more money if they went to a 50 game schedule. But I don't think that's the point.

Believe me Texas, it's coming one day and you will be proven totally wrong and the old system and the current BCS system will be laughed at down the road.

I don't think you'll see a playoff in Div 1 in your lifetime. As for the BCS, it may evolve but it won't be laughed at down the road.

Good night. Geek.

[Texas Golfer]

In the 8-year history of the BCS, last year was the ONLY year there wasn't a controversy. Let's not pretend like it's the norm.

People love controversy. The internet political boards substantiate this theory. The 2000elections were talked about for years. The 2006 election are no longer talked about.

[Geekboy]

Good night. Geek.
When did the salary cap hit pro football and for what reason? What system did pro football have in place before the salary cap? How has that system to determine the championship changed since the salary cap?

Goodnight Texas.

[TopDawg]

I don't think you'll see a playoff in Div 1 in your lifetime. As for the BCS, it may evolve but it won't be laughed at down the road.

The BCS is laughed at NOW.

We're one game away from a playoff. Herbstreit's "Plus 1" proposal is, technically, a playoff. I think it's pretty likely. An 8 team playoff? Maybe a little further off. 16 teams? Probably way off. But I think we'll see some sort of a playoff with at least 4 teams in the near future.

[Texas Golfer]

Is there a salary cap in pro baseball?

There's a 162 game schedule in pro baseball and they play each other many times. If the NCAA went to a 162 game schedule, I'm sure we could weed out the "lesser" teams.

[TopDawg]

People love controversy. The internet political boards substantiate this theory. The 2000elections were talked about for years. The 2006 election are no longer talked about.

Well many people believe that the playoff wouldn't eliminate the controversy. And they're probably right. So with a playoff we get all the fun controversy PLUS some great post-season games with a lot more meaning.

[Geekboy]

"You're entitled to your ridiculous opinion." -Texas Golfer

Must have struck a nerve.

Goodnight once again.

[Texas Golfer]

Is there parity in other divisions of NCAA football?

Moreso because they don't have the financial support the Div 1 teams get from boosters and state funds. For example, Baylor has a tough time competing with UT because they don't have the boosters as does UT. UT also gets state funds but Baylor does not being a private school.

[Texas Golfer]

When did the salary cap hit pro football and for what reason? What system did pro football have in place before the salary cap? How has that system to determine the championship changed since the salary cap?

Goodnight Texas.

The NFL went to a salary cap to keep the deeper pockets from buying the best players. It was an attempt to get some parity to level the playing field.

[TopDawg]

Moreso because they don't have the financial support the Div 1 teams get from boosters and state funds.

From 1993 - 2004, there were 7 different Div II champs.

From 1993 - 2004, there were 10 different Div I champs.

Looks like there is more parity in Div I than II.

[Texas Golfer]

The BCS is laughed at NOW.

We're one game away from a playoff. Herbstreit's "Plus 1" proposal is, technically, a playoff. I think it's pretty likely. An 8 team playoff? Maybe a little further off. 16 teams? Probably way off. But I think we'll see some sort of a playoff with at least 4 teams in the near future.

The BCS isn't any more "laughed at" than the previous system of merely using human polls. That's why there was a change. I expect there'll still be some changes to try and "perfect" the system even though you and I both know that it'll never be perfect.

I really don't think we'll have any playoff because we'd already have one if it were truly wanted. The BCS was designed to keep from having dual national champions. It accomplished that mission (except for the AP disagreeing that USC was the third best team a few years ago).

[TopDawg]

But even still...I'm not convinced that parity has anything to do with why a playoff system would or would not work. I'm not sure I follow that reasoning.

[Texas Golfer]

"You're entitled to your ridiculous opinion." -Texas Golfer

Must have struck a nerve.

Goodnight once again.

It's an old joke. No nerves struck.

C'mon, Geek. You have to be having fun discussing this or you'd gone to bed long ago.

[TopDawg]

The BCS isn't any more "laughed at" than the previous system of merely using human polls.

I was just pointing out that it's being laughed at now so, unless it's proven to be the best system, it'll surely be laughed at later.


That's why there was a change. I expect there'll still be some changes to try and "perfect" the system even though you and I both know that it'll never be perfect.

But it can be less imperfect. A lot less.


I really don't think we'll have any playoff because we'd already have one if it were truly wanted.

That's fine. But I bet people were saying the same thing back in the early 90's about the BCS system.


The BCS was designed to keep from having dual national champions. It accomplished that mission (except for the AP disagreeing that USC was the third best team a few years ago).

We might have the same problem this year if Michigan whips USC and Florida squeaks by Ohio State. People forget how big a chance the BCS was to the D-I college football landscape. Spades have been broken, and now it's just a matter of time before we see some form of a playoff. It may be a lot of time, or it may be a little.

[Texas Golfer]

From 1993 - 2004, there were 7 different Div II champs.

From 1993 - 2004, there were 10 different Div I champs.

Looks like there is more parity in Div I than II.

Because many pollsters vote on records and not on the quality of opponents. That's why you have many schools padding their schedules like Auburn did a few years ago and Texas Tech did last year. They play all the state schools for the blind and even play them at their home field to further enhance their chances of securing wins.

One Harris voter (if you go to that thread) voted Ohio State #1 and Boise State #2 because they were undefeated regardless of the teams they played. As long as voters continue to vote for the teams witht the best records rather than for the best teams, you'll get results like those.

[Texas Golfer]

But even still...I'm not convinced that parity has anything to do with why a playoff system would or would not work. I'm not sure I follow that reasoning.

I'm not arguing that parity is the reasoning. If it came across that way, it wasn't my intent. I was just using the changes to the NFL in trying to instill parity for the rationale that the NCAA playoff cannot be structured like the NFL playoff system. All of their conferences are set up in the exact same manner. Not all of the NCAA conferences are.

For sake of argument I'll try to set up an example. Let's say USC and OU are in the top 8. Their regular season is over. Only OU now has to play Nebraska who also is in the top 8 for the conference championship. More than likely, one of the Big XII teams will knock the other out of the top 8. USC doesn't face that risk.

Under the current system, even though there is more risk than reward to play a championship game, there could be some reward (i.e., Florida). OU, a few years ago, was touted as the "best team ever assembled" but had to play another top 10 team in KSU for the conference championship and got beat badly. USC was comfortable in their position of not having to play the additional high risk game. Had OU won, there wouldn't have been any discussion about OU/LSU/USC. Nor would there have been had USC had to play a championship game and lost when it was USC/OU/Auburn.

I'd much rather see all teams have to compete under the same standards in order to make "the game". That's why I think a totally computerized BCS system sans the human element is better than a playoff. Also, either all conference should have to play a championship game or none of them should have to.

But, personally, I don't want to lose the bowl games as we know them. The pagentry and festivities would be lost and that would be a loss for college football.

[Texas Golfer]

I was just pointing out that it's being laughed at now so, unless it's proven to be the best system, it'll surely be laughed at later.



But it can be less imperfect. A lot less.



That's fine. But I bet people were saying the same thing back in the early 90's about the BCS system.



We might have the same problem this year if Michigan whips USC and Florida squeaks by Ohio State. People forget how big a chance the BCS was to the D-I college football landscape. Spades have been broken, and now it's just a matter of time before we see some form of a playoff. It may be a lot of time, or it may be a little.

I'd like to see that happen because I like the controversy. I'm having fun discussing it with you guys.

I'd be surprised if we get a playoff because the universities don't want it and the bowl committees don't want it. It's really not the media nor even the fans desires that really concern the schools or the bowls. Almost all of the regular season games for all of the contenders are at capacity crowds as are the bowl games.

Until fans decide they don't want to play anymore because of their discontent of not having a playoff, we probably won't see one. That being said, I think for every fan who wants a playoff, you'll get another who doesn't.

But, who knows. It's just my opinion that we won't see one.

[soonerjoker]

only way fans can vote is to quit going to games.

i'm sure attendance (or lack of it) shortened boo blake's tenure @ OU.
games my have officially been "sell-outs", but lotsa fans were disguised as "empty seats".

[badger]

There's a 162 game schedule in pro baseball and they play each other many times. If the NCAA went to a 162 game schedule, I'm sure we could weed out the "lesser" teams.
we could also weed out the 'lesser' players who go down in injuries...and after 162 games, I'm sure that would be a majority of them. All except for Paul Thompson, who has held up surprisingly well.

[Scott D]

The system was probably at it's best in 2002-2003. The heavy weighing of the polls over the side factors that the computers had originally brought to the table due to the incessant complaints by those who had AP votes, or those whom just became journalists to axegrind everything.

Since 2004 it's been basically all about the fallacy of human voters deciding the rankings instead of the unbiased computers. It's a sad state of things when the AP pulls out of being used in the formula, and gets replaced by the 'Harris Poll' which is clearly using people whom don't have any more business voting for college football rankings than your average infant does.

The biggest thing that they eliminated that has been detrimental to college football, and the bcs as well was a separate strength of schedule column. As most schools (read: Big-10, Big East, at least 70% of the SEC, ACC) will keep looking to schedule the sisters of the poor like they did in the 70s-80s instead of each other.

FWIW, the ACC, SEC, and Big-12 have the right idea...the problem now is pressuring the Pac-10, Big-10/11, and Big East to join the 21st century to create power conferences.

[ZookSucks]

UM can cry all the crocodile tears he wants, but Auburn is the team that really got jobbed by the BCS. they beat Florida AND LSU....
but neither of those teams got blown out by the struggling dawgs.

[Texas Golfer]

The system was probably at it's best in 2002-2003. The heavy weighing of the polls over the side factors that the computers had originally brought to the table due to the incessant complaints by those who had AP votes, or those whom just became journalists to axegrind everything.

Since 2004 it's been basically all about the fallacy of human voters deciding the rankings instead of the unbiased computers. It's a sad state of things when the AP pulls out of being used in the formula, and gets replaced by the 'Harris Poll' which is clearly using people whom don't have any more business voting for college football rankings than your average infant does.

The biggest thing that they eliminated that has been detrimental to college football, and the bcs as well was a separate strength of schedule column. As most schools (read: Big-10, Big East, at least 70% of the SEC, ACC) will keep looking to schedule the sisters of the poor like they did in the 70s-80s instead of each other.

FWIW, the ACC, SEC, and Big-12 have the right idea...the problem now is pressuring the Pac-10, Big-10/11, and Big East to join the 21st century to create power conferences.

I agree. I'd like to see the human element removed from the equation. Plug certain agreed criteria into the computers and let everyone compete under that criteria. Whatever the computers spit out is the rankings.

[Stitch Face]

If I were a player or a coach I wouldn't care about "fun discussion" or "tradition" or much else. If I'd just won my conference or gone undefeated I'd want the right to vie for the championship alongside every other team that won their division or went undefeated.

"Hey coach! Why aren't we playing for all the marbles?"

"Because the sports guy for the Times Picayune who only watched one-half of one of our games voted us twelfth in the nation."

[Texas Golfer]

If I were a player or a coach I wouldn't care about "fun discussion" or "tradition" or much else. If I'd just won my conference or gone undefeated I'd want the right to vie for the championship alongside every other team that won their division or went undefeated.

"Hey coach! Why aren't we playing for all the marbles?"

"Because the sports guy for the Times Picayune who only watched one-half of one of our games voted us twelfth in the nation."

That's why I say take the human element out of the equation.

[Winston Churchill]

http://content.crazyphotos.com/37372.jpg

[Winston Churchill]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/moon_of_tears/owned.jpg