Anybody catch 20/20 last night?

[PAW]

about cheap Americans? I caught some of it, hit and miss so please let me know if I got some of this wrong.

The working poor and the ultra rich gave the most with the middle class dragging up the rear. As a % of income, the working poor led the way. The #1 indicator related to charitable contributions . . . religion. Religious people gave far more than their counterparts. Another contributing factor was peoples view regarding the role of government (liberal vs. conservative). Liberals expect the govt. to take care of people and give less. Conservatives expect people to take care of people and give more (I guess we're not talking about politicians). Of the 25 most giving states, 24 (OK included) of them were red states!

They had a couple of intervies with Ted Turner and Warren Buffet, who gave a chunk to Bill Gate's foundation. He said he could do a better job with the money.

:pop:

[Frozen Sooner]

Interesting that Ted Turner, Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates are all liberals.

[picasso]

Did they interview George Costanza? that piece is worhtless without his 2 cents.

literally 2 cents.

[PAW]

Interesting that Ted Turner, Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates are all liberals.

Stossell was hitting on Ted about his other billions of disposable income. He said he wanted to be able to live comfortably into his mid-90's.

[Ike]

so I question that religon is the #1 indicator. I can see it I suppose, but I wonder what other indicators they looked at? Income seems likely, obviously since they mentioned it, political leaning seems likely. what else? if those were the only 3, then I think it was probably a short-sighted investigation.


I saw a little..mainly the part where John Stossel was patting hisself on the back, before I changed the channel.

[SCOUT]

They ended the show with some comparisons of individual donations vs. government. The US government contributed something like 900 million to the tsunami victims while private US citizens contributed over 2 billion.

The average American donates 7 times more than the average German and 14 times more than the average Italian.

[orangekaje]

Religion is a gold mine.

[PAW]

Religion is a gold mine.

United Way is a religious org?

[Frozen Sooner]

I'd also question what data set they were using to tabulate their numbers.

Tithing is considered charitable giving, but I have a hard time considering giving someone money to build a multi-million dollar superchurch to be charity (which is not to say that all or even most tithing goes to this purpose.)

Do they consider labor in their calculations? If so, what rate do they use for labor/money equivalency?

[orangekaje]

United Way is a religious org?


I didn't say anything about United Way but you can tell religion is the #1 indicator just by looking at how much churches are raking in. I wonder what the avg priest salary is?

[PAW]

I didn't say anything about United Way but you can tell religion is the #1 indicator just by looking at how much churches are raking in. I wonder what the avg priest salary is?

I could be off, but my understanding was that religion was the number 1 indicator in giving to orgs like United Way, according to the piece. Giving to churches and being religious are synonymous.

As far as their calculations, some good points have been brought up here and . . . IDK how they made their calulations.

[Ike]

I could be off, but my understanding was that religion was the number 1 indicator in giving to orgs like United Way, according to the piece. Giving to churches and being religious are synonymous.

As far as their calculations, some good points have been brought up here and . . . IDK how they made their calulations.

did they mention anything about who actually did the study/investigation? if it was a published paper, well, the paper is probably well done, but it would be nice to read it. Unfortunately, news organizations (and John Stossell too) don't do a great job of interpreting scientific findings. Sometimes they stumble onto the correct interpretation, but usually only when that is spelled out for them in the conclusions...and even then they get it wrong half the time.

If the study was done by 20/20, its probably bunk, scientifically speaking. Not that their conclusions are nessecarily wrong (I mean, it sounds logical right?), but news orgs don't often understand the scientific method.

[crawfish]

so I question that religon is the #1 indicator. I can see it I suppose, but I wonder what other indicators they looked at? Income seems likely, obviously since they mentioned it, political leaning seems likely. what else? if those were the only 3, then I think it was probably a short-sighted investigation.

Gotta wonder why anybody would question that. Church provides not only opportunity for giving but for service as well...and opportunity is half the battle.

I fully commend Gates, Buffett, etc. for their giving...however, there's a big difference between giving some of one's disposable income and giving when your income afterwards is still enough to buy potentially anything. There is just not the level of personal sacrifice involved.

Liberals, in my discussions with them, tend to think that the need for charity is a consequence of financial inequity - while that's true to a point, I don't think there will ever be an equitable society and no government that could ever enforce one without becoming corrupt itself. People who have should always feel a responsibility to aid those who don't.

[Ike]

Gotta wonder why anybody would question that. Church provides not only opportunity for giving but for service as well...and opportunity is half the battle.

I fully commend Gates, Buffett, etc. for their giving...however, there's a big difference between giving some of one's disposable income and giving when your income afterwards is still enough to buy potentially anything. There is just not the level of personal sacrifice involved.

Liberals, in my discussions with them, tend to think that the need for charity is a consequence of financial inequity - while that's true to a point, I don't think there will ever be an equitable society and no government that could ever enforce one without becoming corrupt itself. People who have should always feel a responsibility to aid those who don't.


when someone puts a number on anything, I question it. Even if it sounds logical and well reasoned, I want the proof.

I can show you plenty of instances where this is warranted, and the number given turns out to be way off base. sometimes the numbers turn out to be way different than we percieve that they should be. Its not a question to me of questioning it based upon the ideas put forth, but questioning it because they were bold enough to attach numbers to it.

[crawfish]

when someone puts a number on anything, I question it. Even if it sounds logical and well reasoned, I want the proof.

I can show you plenty of instances where this is warranted, and the number given turns out to be way off base. sometimes the numbers turn out to be way different than we percieve that they should be. Its not a question to me of questioning it based upon the ideas put forth, but questioning it because they were bold enough to attach numbers to it.

There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. :)

I think most polls are put out to support the viewpoints of who is putting it together. I'm as cynical about them as anybody. However, this particular time it matches my preconceived notions, so I'm giving it more weight. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

Giving to churches and being religious are synonymous.

Wrong.

Highly correlated, sure, but not synonymous. I give money to a church here in town because I've known the pastor's wife since I was in high school and I like the both of them a lot and think they do good works.

[crawfish]

Wrong.

Highly correlated, sure, but not synonymous. I give money to a church here in town because I've known the pastor's wife since I was in high school and I like the both of them a lot and think they do good works.

Nah, not gonna pick the low-hanging fruit. :cool:

[Frozen Sooner]

I wish I had picked the low-hanging fruit. She's cute. Her father was convinced that she and I had a thing going in high school and once told me if I ever showed up on his property he was going to shoot me. Alas, nothing but friendship between us.

[Ike]

There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. :)

I think most polls are put out to support the viewpoints of who is putting it together. I'm as cynical about them as anybody. However, this particular time it matches my preconceived notions, so I'm giving it more weight. :D

heh. statistics get a bad rap, which is only partially deserved. It is possible to correctly interpret them and obtain useful data. However, you have to know a bit more than just the final number. Unfortunately, its all to easy to fool people (and even yourself) in a number of ways. which is why I question anything that is given a number :) Sometimes they really are right. Sometimes you have to pay close attention to the questions that they are really answering.

[PAW]

Wrong.

Highly correlated, sure, but not synonymous. I give money to a church here in town because I've known the pastor's wife since I was in high school and I like the both of them a lot and think they do good works.

You are an anomaly. It may not be 100%, but it's pretty dang close.

[Frozen Sooner]

Again, there's a difference between a correlation and equality. Choose your words carefully.

[PAW]

Again, there's a difference between a correlation and equality. Choose your words carefully.

I hear ya'. Correlation is not causation. ;)

[swardboy]

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2684898

2 1/2 minutes will answer most of y'alls questions....

[Ike]

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2684898

2 1/2 minutes will answer most of y'alls questions....
except for where they got their numbers.