Why we are more successful running the ball without AD . . .

[The Ensuing Kickoff]

We are averaging more rushing yards/game without Adrian than we did with him. (See, cnnsi.com article about AD's status).

So, which of the following is most accurate:

1. Despite repeated success by us, DCs keep sending fewer people into the box to stop AP and co. because they underestimate their individual ability.

2. Facing certain death (or they thought), our offensive coaches opened up the run playbook, and it has simply worked.

3. Our O line has just gotten that much better.

4. We simplified the blocking schemes for the O line.

5. AP and CB are better than AD.

No fair just saying it's a combination of these.

Discuss.:pop:

[swardboy]

I think it's a combination of these.

[swardboy]

And I'll add #6. Fresher legs....I always thought AD should have gotten spelled more than he did.

[StoopTroup]

You forgot Sooner Magic.

[Pepper]

I think #1

[The Ensuing Kickoff]

Friends, these largely are lame responses to my only serious post this millenium. Back when I was SoonerDave, I had over 2,000 posts, all of them willy-nilly, meaningless fluff. This here, however, is hard, blog-style commentary-inducing quizardry.

DisCUSS.

[tulsaOUfan]

a combination of 1, 3, and 4

[Blues1]

From what I see --- The offense Line has made up their MINDS to be A Top Notch Group...The Fact we have lots of talent at Running Backs doesn't hurt - It looks to me The 2006 Sooners have "The Team Comes First" attitude - Right now I wonder IF AD can win his job back..... :)

I do worry AD might need to be extra carefull holding on to the ball - just because he's been out of action for so long....

2006 Sooners Keep on ROckin'

[tbl]

Well dude... you pretty much nailed it, so I wouldn't expect much meaningful dialog. I just hope whatever it is doesn't resurface when he does come back for the bowl game.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I don't think it is necessarily that we run the ball better. I honestly think our coaching staff was being smothered by having to be so predictable. Kevin Wilson isn't the type of o-coordinater that should be running the ball 30 to 35 times with the same guy. We always needed to throw the ball more and no AD allowed Thompson to show that he may make some mistakes but that he is incredibly capable of moving us down the field. Plus as much bashing as Cale gets, seemingly we can go deeper into oru running back depth and continue to find people who understand their position. I mean seriously Patrick, Brown, and Gute all were prepared to play and knew their assignments, that reflects highly on Gundy's ability to teach them and prepare them.

[tulsaOUfan]

good points there grey

[Pepper]

What about level of competition? Baylor, Texas Tech, and OSU would bring up anyones average.

[GottaHavePride]

We don't really run better. But, with AD in the game, defenses know that we're running the ball probalby 75% of the time, and there's very little chance that nyone other than AD will end up with the ball. So pretty much all 11 guys are thinking "tackle AD".

Without AD in the game, defenses have to remember "oh ****, their quarterback cn actually pass the ball. Oh yeah, AND he can run a little bit." We're less predictable, which means some defenders have to split off to cover WRs, TEs, and PT. That opens up some running lanes.

[birddog]

And I'll add #6. Fresher legs....I always thought AD should have gotten spelled more than he did.

i'll agree with that. we have some really good backs that offer different running styles. opposing defenses would be on their heels a bit more, as we saw yesterday.

[SoonerMajic]

With AD we had alot of carries for losses or little or no gain. I am not sure why, maybe because he was lined up so deep in the backfield????

[BoomerSooner247]

And I'll add #6. Fresher legs....I always thought AD should have gotten spelled more than he did.ill go with #6. ill also add that it opened the whole teams abilities, not just depending on AD to get the job down. so i guess more variety is what you'd call it.

[Texas Golfer]

And I'll add #6. Fresher legs....I always thought AD should have gotten spelled more than he did.

But he's AD (all day)! He gets stronger as the game goes on.

[yermom]

AD can carry the ball 30+ times, AP and co can't handle that load as well

i honestly think that the coaches think "AD is in the game, why shouldn't we run out of the I on every down?"

[ruf/nekdad]

We don't really run better. But, with AD in the game, defenses know that we're running the ball probalby 75% of the time, and there's very little chance that nyone other than AD will end up with the ball. So pretty much all 11 guys are thinking "tackle AD".

I'm with you here, but it stands to reason that this in turn opens up the passing game and I don't remember that being the case. But I'm an old fa*t and maybe I forgot.

[RedstickSooner]

I think it's largely a matter of defenses not putting 8 and 9 folks into the box - but I think it's also important to bear in mind the *why* of the change.

It isn't simply because AD is so good - it's because he has been lauded as one of the best ever, and every defensive co-ordinator we faced took it as a threat to their own competence if they didn't do everything possible, short of fielding a 12 or 13 man squad on the field, to stop him.

When you let our backups run all up and down the field on you, you don't look (for whatever reason) like we just made you our bitch.

[kruss1971]

It's not #5. However, AP and CB are both GREAT backs.

It's not #4. Why would the schemes need to be simplified when they were working with AD in the backfield?

It's not #3. Our OLine has definitely improved over the course of the year. But, I would contend that they were a very solid OLine from the onset. It's a misconception to believe that they improved leaps and bounds beyond where they were with AD.

It's not #2. Who really believes that the playbook has been "opened up". Sure, there has been a steady addition of new plays each week. However, the coaches didn't reach down and find a bunch of new plays when AD went down but they did throw in some plays that catered to the talent.

The idea that we have a better running game is really a misconception. If anything, the perception of a better running game stems from #1. Here are some comparisons that affect my opinion. First stat(s) will be for the first six games and then the stat(s) for the second six games will follow.

Yards per carry: 4.7 to 4.6
Rushes per game: 37 to 45
Longest runs: 37-29-35-34-29-53 to 17-15-18-40-35-65
Pass Attempts per game: 26 to 20
Pass Attempts: 24-33-24-20-27-27 to 26-19-12-31-19-11

Ding, ding, ding! I see a trend a brewin'.

We ran less and passed more with AD in the backfield than we have for the past 6 games. Okay, that is evident. What else can we learn from these stats?

1. Take a look at the breakout runs. If AD manages to break through the box or outside, he's got fewer guys to beat; thus, he has longer breakout runs than during the past 6 games. Our breakout runs in the past 6 games start out pretty short. Why? Because there aren't as many defenders in the box creating a better chance to stifle breakout runs. As coaches realized we were still going to run without AD and we had done it VERY successfully in the 7th, 8th, and 9th games, they started cheating the box a little more. That's why our breakout run length increases over the last 3 games. Prime example: Was the box loaded on AP's breakout against the pokes? You bet.

2. Why does our average pass attempts number drop after AD gets injured? The box isn't as loaded. The pass game HAS to be respected and it begins to limit the number of pass plays called. They just weren't as easy to come by. We go from a minimum of 20 pass attempts with AD to 4 out of the last 6 games below that minimum.

3. We've just plain ran more times per game without AD. It's as simple as that. The OLine continues to execute as it has from the beginning, but the matchups are better for them...they don't have to block an extra man on every play now. More runs per game at nearly the same YPC as with AD is going to equal more total yards per game.

In short, it's all a misconception that we are magically able to run better without AD. It's all about matchups on the line. The OLine is great...and has been all year...they just appear better now because the box isn't stuffed on nearly every single play as it was with AD in the backfield.

[FourKings]

In short, it's all a misconception that we are magically able to run better without AD. It's all about matchups on the line. The OLine is great...and has been all year...they just appear better now because the box isn't stuffed on nearly every single play as it was with AD in the backfield.

Not that I am a genious coach or anything, but I agree with this, with AD its loaded (line of scrimmage) and no respect for PT to beat you, simple for a DC to defense, we are riding AD, make PT beat you. Early in the season, he couldnt/didnt whatever, got some experience, comfort level, confidence etc, the passing game has picked up as a ligitimat threat, opened the line of scrimmage, hence, better balance for the running game.
I have never bought into run first to set up the passing game, especially when a good defense is willing to sell out against the run to make you pass to beat them.

[OklahomaRed]

Great breakdown above.

O-Line is getting better every week.

Less deffensive focus on the run.

Platooning running between AP and CB, thus keeping fresher legs in the game.

More and more deffensive respect for our passing game, which comes from PT getting more comfortable, and the WR's getting stronger each week.

Offense spending more time on the field each week with our deffense finally starting to play better; although, I was getting pretty nervous against the agroids. I think that was more due to the agroids offense actually turning into one of the stronger attacks we've faced all year. It would be nice to get to play texass again with them stinking it up. :D

[The Ensuing Kickoff]

Bizzumple my rumple.

Good post, Kruss.

[OUMallen]

We are averaging more rushing yards/game without Adrian than we did with him. (See, cnnsi.com article about AD's status).

So, which of the following is most accurate:

1. Despite repeated success by us, DCs keep sending fewer people into the box to stop AP and co. because they underestimate their individual ability.

2. Facing certain death (or they thought), our offensive coaches opened up the run playbook, and it has simply worked.

3. Our O line has just gotten that much better.

4. We simplified the blocking schemes for the O line.

5. AP and CB are better than AD.

No fair just saying it's a combination of these.

Discuss.:pop:

it's #1 and #3.

[OUTrumpet]

But he's AD (all day)! He gets stronger as the game goes on.

Kinda like J. Lane at A&M gets fatter as the game goes on? I swear, every A&M game I've seen on TV this season, he gains 5 lbs everytime they talk about him. He starts games at 265/270 and finishes over 300.

[olevetonahill]

Is simple
AD in the Ds key on him . AD out
the Ds aint gotta clue

[Rogue]

Sorta what olevet said. AD has never been much of a pass blocker although he was slightly better this year than before. When AP and CB are in, they can both pass block very well and we run more "hesitation" type plays like draws and some misdirection with them.

[washington's fave]

Well, for 1 the defenses have backed up a defender because they mistackenly believe they can stop the SOONER running game w/fewer players in the box. OU Offensive coaches look at that as a chance to run the ball. When that reverses the OU coaches will be throwing the ball because that is what will be open. The coaches make the money they make because they know how too make the changes they need to make to win the game. I MEAN HOW MANY GAMES DOES BOB STOOPS HAVE TO WIN BEFORE EVERY SOONER FAN HAS THE FAITH!!!

[BigTip]

#3
ANYBODY can run for OU and get 150 yards! Okay, that's not true. But the more successful AP and CB are, the less fantastic AD looks.

[Scott D]

Keep in mind that both Patrick and Brown are both not only different style runners from each other, but also from Adrian. One person posted that there are more carries now than when Adrian was back there. That tends to happen when it's more of a running back by committee, than a single back alone.

[Van Wilder]

I'm sorry but AD will never look less fantastic just because AP and CB are running the ball well. I love both of those guys but come on now we are talking about AD.

[soonerkaufmanII]

Despite the team having more rushing yds per game, neither running back can dominate the second half like AD, at least to this point. If AD were healthy the second half play calling would not look as conservitive. Let's not lose focus on the fact that AD is the best running back in the history of the world.

[proudsoonergal]

I agree with all the technical posts, but I'd like to add that I think part of it, at least, is psychological. When AD is in, the OU players look at him and expect him to save them. Without AD, the individual players have to try "harder." I'll call it the Brad Smith effect.

[The Ensuing Kickoff]

Soonergal - good point.

[Egeo]

Sorta what olevet said. AD has never been much of a pass blocker although he was slightly better this year than before. When AP and CB are in, they can both pass block very well and we run more "hesitation" type plays like draws and some misdirection with them.
brown isnt half the passblocker peterson is

i think kruss is correct, the teams have to be defending us differently now
why else would we run the ball more once we lose the best rb in the nation

also, while i cant prove it... by looking at the film - it looks like patrick isnt as "patient" with his running style therefor the oline does not have to block as long

[FormerSoonerProf]

Whatever be the case about AD, I am waiting to see what the combination of having AP and CB in the backfield will do for us! Is this like a Reggie Bush/Lendale White combination where the QB has two choices to go to? What do we do about a QB for next year?

[OUmillenium]

We don't really run better. But, with AD in the game, defenses know that we're running the ball probalby 75% of the time, and there's very little chance that nyone other than AD will end up with the ball. So pretty much all 11 guys are thinking "tackle AD".

Without AD in the game, defenses have to remember "oh ****, their quarterback cn actually pass the ball. Oh yeah, AND he can run a little bit." We're less predictable, which means some defenders have to split off to cover WRs, TEs, and PT. That opens up some running lanes.


I agree with this one.

[OUmillenium]

I think it's largely a matter of defenses not putting 8 and 9 folks into the box - but I think it's also important to bear in mind the *why* of the change.

It isn't simply because AD is so good - it's because he has been lauded as one of the best ever, and every defensive co-ordinator we faced took it as a threat to their own competence if they didn't do everything possible, short of fielding a 12 or 13 man squad on the field, to stop him.

When you let our backups run all up and down the field on you, you don't look (for whatever reason) like we just made you our bitch.


Another good point. I do not think our line suddenly got better or fresh legs, it is all about how other teams lined up to defend AD + how are coaches decided to predictably run him right at 8-10 defenders.

[ashley]

Anyone who thinks AD is not clearly the best going is ..... well.

[sooneron]

Average rush D that AD faced - 58th in the nation
that CB/AP/Gute - 68th in the nation

This shoots that 75% of the time theory stated above-

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5465/rushingstatssk5.jpg

Anyone that thinks the run blocking was really solid in the early going of the season wasn't watching the run blocking, it was abysmal. I do agree that the team knows AD is back there and he will get er done when the chips are down. Thus, they may let down a bit, but that could also be due to the line grading out better.

[FourKings]

Well, there are a LOT of reasons IMO, and they all add up to different opinions....heres mine, some may agree, some may get me for baggin on PT, so be it....

Early on, AD WAS the offense for the most part, throw it short, run AD, basically it, stop AD, we sputter, basic defense for the most part. Stop the horse the wagon will follow.
PT wasnt confident, nor were the coaches, cant blame him or them, he hadnt played QB, thats the way it is, the more in-game experience he got, the more the game slowed down, the better he got, hence more confidence, the better he played.
Defenses have to, key word, have, to account for him in the scheme, which spreads the defense, they have to play more honest on defense now than they did early because PT is so much better and respected as a QB, not as a leader or person, which he is, but as a QB.
No 8-9 in the box because they have to respect PT now, he will make a play now, whereas early they didnt have to, he had to prove it, and he has, thats the difference IMO.

[kruss1971]

Keep in mind that both Patrick and Brown are both not only different style runners from each other, but also from Adrian. One person posted that there are more carries now than when Adrian was back there. That tends to happen when it's more of a running back by committee, than a single back alone.
Absolutely, they are each unique and are each definitely gifted athletes. However, it's not a simple case that we, or other teams, have more carries simply because of back rotation. It depends much more on the style and strengths of the offense and what opportunities the defense is going to give up. But, I do agree with you that it does usually tend to result in more carries.

Not accounting for pass plays that turned into rush plays, the average run/pass percentage mix has been as follows:

With healthy AD: 59/41
With Committee: 70/30

We could say that this happened because we were running by committee...because each back maintained fresher legs...each back got fewer carries. But, it wouldn't give us an entirely accurate representation of what was actually happening.

In AP's first 3 starts, he averaged 6 more carries per game than AD did in the six games that he played. Given that he had 71% of the carries in these 3 games to AD's 77% in 6 games, AP was definitely carrying a significantly comparable load to that AD was carrying. CB and JG averaged about 9 carries per game together during AP's first 3 starts...not exactly an overwhelming example that we were "running by committee".

Game 10 comes along. AP is out. We're running CB and JG. CB has 16 carries and JG has 8...I can agree that it's a committee backfield. However, only 54% of our plays ended as rushing plays that game. We throw for a #2 season high of 31 times against Tech...and rack up #2 season low rush yards of 139.

Game 11 and 12...now those are great examples of a committee backfield.

Another thing to remember is time of possession. This is not a low-level analysis or anything, but if we were to split up time of possession by the number of offensive plays in a game, things shake out as follows:

Run play minutes first 6 games: 17:40
Run play minutes last 6 games: 22:49

That's about 5 minutes more per game spent running the ball.


Anyone that thinks the run blocking was really solid in the early going of the season wasn't watching the run blocking, it was abysmal. I do agree that the team knows AD is back there and he will get er done when the chips are down. Thus, they may let down a bit, but that could also be due to the line grading out better.

As mentioned earlier, this is a COMPLETE misunderstanding of the game. More penalties? Certainly. Room for improvement? There is always room. Abysmal performance? Definitely not.

It's all about matchups, my friend. Being outnumbered in the box makes things a little more difficult on the OLine. Do you really think the OLine lets down because AD is in the backfield? Who would want to sandbag knowing the best RB in the country was running for you? This is more a cause for motivation and improved effort than it is for letting up.

[kruss1971]

Early on, AD WAS the offense for the most part, throw it short, run AD, basically it, stop AD, we sputter, basic defense for the most part. Stop the horse the wagon will follow.
While I can agree that most defenses had this mindset, we still ran a pretty balanced game. We averaged 37 running plays and 26 pass plays per game with AD...a small number of rushing plays could go in the pass column if we go back and analyze every busted pass play or sack. The percentages were 59% run and 41% pass.


PT wasnt confident, nor were the coaches, cant blame him or them, he hadnt played QB, thats the way it is, the more in-game experience he got, the more the game slowed down, the better he got, hence more confidence, the better he played.
Confident? PT's QB rating over the first 6 games averaged 154.49. If he continued that average, he would now be ranked 14th in passer rating nationwide. I don't see how that or the fact that we threw 6 more times per game with AD healthy gives any indication that PT or the coaches were not confident about his or our receivers' ability to generate a compentent passing attack. He has definitely improved, but not from a low-performance level. He came out of the chute pretty confident IMO.

I agree with you on most of the rest of your post...people are now seeing us as who they thought we were before ***** was dismissed...and better.

[Crimsontothecore]

I've been wanting to say "I TOLD YOU SO" for a couple weeks now and this thread gives me the opportunity.
Remember back when AD got hurt and I said we would be fine? I was flogged for even insinuating that another RB could actually run the ball effectively. I don't understand why everyone is so defensive over AD. He's a good back but the fact is Patrick has started 4 games and is averaging 166 ypg while AD averaged 155ypg during his 6 starts. That's not a commentary, just true numbers. For some reason people want to believe that Patrick and the other RB's aren't even in the same hemisphere as AD. Sorry, but production says otherwise.

[swardboy]

I've been wanting to say "I TOLD YOU SO" for a couple weeks now and this thread gives me the opportunity.
Remember back when AD got hurt and I said we would be fine? I was flogged for even insinuating that another RB could actually run the ball effectively. I don't understand why everyone is so defensive over AD. He's a good back but the fact is Patrick has started 4 games and is averaging 166 ypg while AD averaged 155ypg during his 6 starts. That's not a commentary, just true numbers. For some reason people want to believe that Patrick and the other RB's aren't even in the same hemisphere as AD. Sorry, but production says otherwise.


To me the bottom line is, I am so stoked for next year now! This line matured well this year I think, and we now know we have the backs to carry the mail. If we can play out with a conference championship and a BCS bowl win, the momentum will be crazy good going into next year.....oh, wait....that qb thingy.....

[SleestakSooner]

#5 is ridiculous, (not that you actually meant it) just look at the 4th quarter stats for the running backs before and after AD was injured.

I believe several things came into play to create a running game that produced more yardage per game after AD was out.

Lesser competition being one, team cohesion and great coaching are my three main ideas on why it happened.

[FourKings]

Confident? PT's QB rating over the first 6 games averaged 154.49. If he continued that average, he would now be ranked 14th in passer rating nationwide. I don't see how that or the fact that we threw 6 more times per game with AD healthy gives any indication that PT or the coaches were not confident about his or our receivers' ability to generate a compentent passing attack. He has definitely improved, but not from a low-performance level. He came out of the chute pretty confident IMO.

I wonder what his yards per att. was, not saying he was thinking he couldnt play type confident, or the coaches if that makes sense. Its more like riding on the bus and not driving it is what I mean. The guy is a football player, never met one that lacked confidence in that respect lol....
The offense has opened up, a lot since the RRS, no doubt, and that should be a clue as to the "confidence" level I am speaking of, anyway.

Yep, next year is gonna be good!!!!

Boomer!

[kruss1971]

...not saying he was thinking he couldnt play type confident, or the coaches if that makes sense. Its more like riding on the bus and not driving it is what I mean.
My mistake if I misunderstood. I think I see what you are saying if you mean that PT had something to prove, whereas the running game was coming into the season with a track record.

His average yards per completion with longest per game:

16.2 - 69
13 - 42
13.4 - 37
19.8 - 73
13.9 - 41
12.2 - 29
6.2 - 19
11.5 - 18
13 - 19
12.9 - 40
14.8 - 57
11 - 16

PT and our receivers have done great. The average yards per completion for the top 100 QBs nationwide (by rating) is 12.2. PT is sitting at 13.1 yards per completion...Troy Smith at 12.6.


Yep, next year is gonna be good!!!!

Boomer!

Sooner!

[Boffingham]

#3