I do not like this

[85Sooner]

conservative stuff I have been seeing.
NO i am not a coach , Yes we won. barely and that still counts, but continue to do this and it will bite.

Of the plays after our last touchdown with 3+minutes to go in the third,19 of the last 21 plays were runs.
4th qtr stats, all runs =1 yd! thats it.

PT stats are way above RB last year. There is no reason to play so conservatively and while the defense is playing well. OU should have lost that game. The key play for me wes the fumble in the endzone. OSU drove the ball all day and were in the red zone5 times i believe. OU were there three. I don't like having to rely that much on our defense. The O should carry more or the responsibility. they are good enough and can put these games away.

Good job on getting the turnovers under control, did gute play?

Hopefully Kevin and bob realized this. they sure look like they were relieved at the end of the game. Everyone can say bob has had one of his best years coaching, on the other hand one can say he has gotten by by the skin of his teeth a few times. either one could be right.

Anyway on to Neb

[Rufnek76]

Dude, yes...the conservatism kills me too..but..they won, they won, they won! Big 12 South and possibly Big 12 Champions! Between Sooner Football and Cardinal Baseball, my hair is turning gray fast...but both teams are having pretty good years, huh? Relax and enjoy the results!

POOR, POOR AGGIES...:stunned:

[Rufnek76]

I had posted my message BEFORE I saw your Hillary quote...NOW SHE is something to be worried about!!!

[TopDawg]

We were conservative most of the game. It's not the playcalling that put us in a bind late, it was the intensity. Their D-line just started dominating our O-line which had controlled the game for the most part up until that point. It may've had something to do with the fact that they "knew" we were going to run, but if we would've thrown an incomplete pass in there on that last possession, OSU would've taken one timeout with them on that last drive and that could've been huge.

[fadada1]

We were conservative most of the game. It's not the playcalling that put us in a bind late, it was the intensity. Their D-line just started dominating our O-line which had controlled the game for the most part up until that point. It may've had something to do with the fact that they "knew" we were going to run, but if we would've thrown an incomplete pass in there on that last possession, OSU would've taken one timeout with them on that last drive and that could've been huge.
true.

and i don't know what got their D-line so fired up, but it almost came back to kill us. i don't think it was necessarily that our play calling got any more conservative than the previous 3 quarters, we just didn't execute. i would've liked to see joe john used... AT ALL yesterday. very frustrating in a game that was all about keeping the ball away from the pokes and wearing them down - that's what tight ends are great for, imo.

[jk the sooner fan]

We were conservative most of the game. It's not the playcalling that put us in a bind late, it was the intensity. Their D-line just started dominating our O-line which had controlled the game for the most part up until that point.

bingo

[OKC-SLC]

We were conservative most of the game. It's not the playcalling that put us in a bind late, it was the intensity. Their D-line just started dominating our O-line which had controlled the game for the most part up until that point. It may've had something to do with the fact that they "knew" we were going to run, but if we would've thrown an incomplete pass in there on that last possession, OSU would've taken one timeout with them on that last drive and that could've been huge.
agreed. the PT qb draw on 3rd and long was designed solely to force them to use their last timeout.

an incomplete pass there would have been a disaster.

[AzianSooner]

You might need to consider the passing wildly team such as Iowa is bearing a loosing season and NEVER go into a NC.

You might mix in with some pass but are you sure that it's not intercept nor killing more time than a bad running with no fumble?

teach me.

[OUHOMER]

I dont like it either. I sure hope we dont get into a situation where we have to come from behind because we tried to squat on a lead late in a game. I undersand we needed to burn the clock, but we need to make first downs. And yes that means taking a chance and throwing the ball.

Damn it's good to be a sooner and bitching about a win

[usmc-sooner]

what I wouldn't mind seeing in these milk the clock modes is, on first or second down we fake a sweep, and have PT just sprint around the end. I don't think PT's a great runner but he has speed and it might slow down an over aggressive defense hell bent on stuffing Brown and AP.

just a thought.

[Soonerus]

I don't like it but guess what, IT WORKED !!!!!!

[Blues1]

JMHO - but to beat the huskers we need to go all out...The norman QB for neb will pull out all stops to beat us -- and who could blame him especially after we did even give the kid a shot.....I see this game as our toughest contest tis year - We beat Nebraska we will Win our Bowl game - This game will be no roll over - We NEED to go all out...!!!
R'

[BermudaSooner]

What gets me is that Stoops goes for it on 4th and 1 against fake soldier, and then isn't even aggressive enough to throw a pass in the last 3 possessions (I believe there was one attempt to throw, that PT pulled down early and got to the LOS).

I'm glad it worked out, but sure seemed like a crazy strategy during the game--especially when all of the mo was on OSU's side.

[birddog]

You might need to consider the passing wildly team such as Iowa is bearing a loosing season and NEVER go into a NC.

You might mix in with some pass but are you sure that it's not intercept nor killing more time than a bad running with no fumble?

teach me.

the last few drives our field position was pretty bad. we had to be ultra-conservative, especially with only a 6 point lead. it was just too risky to do anything other than run off the guys that got our backs almost 250 rushing yards.

we aren't the only team to run the ball with a lead in the 4th quarter.

[birddog]

What gets me is that Stoops goes for it on 4th and 1 against fake soldier, and then isn't even aggressive enough to throw a pass in the last 3 possessions (I believe there was one attempt to throw, that PT pulled down early and got to the LOS).

I'm glad it worked out, but sure seemed like a crazy strategy during the game--especially when all of the mo was on OSU's side.

it's been that way for the last couple of weeks.

we have a 7 game winning streak, so whatever the hell they call from here on out, is all good with me.

but man, i was hoping for another game away from stress, i.e. baylor.

[85Sooner]

I would understand grinding out the clock but 19 plays for 1 yd is ridiculous. ya gotta do something once or twice to back em up. A long bomb even if intercepted would at least make em back off and the field position wouldn't be worse.

[TrophyCollector]

85 - 18, I think Stoops has done a pretty good job of calling the right plays at the right time to win games. He is conservative when he needs to be and he calls a fake FG or goes for 4th & 1 inside his own 30 when he needs to.

He knew yesterday that the best chance we had was to run clock, take away timeouts and let the defense make a play or two to win the game and he was right. Just one incomplete pass and they would have had another 30 -40 seconds and/or another timeout to work with. And as jacked up as the pumpkins were, a 7 yard out route could have been a catch - big hit - fumble and then we'd have been screwed for sure.

Yep, it drove us crazy, but give the coaches credit for making the right calls to win the game and the division.

[tulsaOUfan]

I think they were afraid of turnovers. just one would have lost the game.

[85Sooner]

85 - 18, I think Stoops has done a pretty good job of calling the right plays at the right time to win games. He is conservative when he needs to be and he calls a fake FG or goes for 4th & 1 inside his own 30 when he needs to.

He knew yesterday that the best chance we had was to run clock, take away timeouts and let the defense make a play or two to win the game and he was right. Just one incomplete pass and they would have had another 30 -40 seconds and/or another timeout to work with. And as jacked up as the pumpkins were, a 7 yard out route could have been a catch - big hit - fumble and then we'd have been screwed for sure.

Yep, it drove us crazy, but give the coaches credit for making the right calls to win the game and the division.


That works both ways. just one first down would have taken at least 2 minutes off the clock. keeping the D on the field for a full qtr and then expecting them to be fresh and ready in the last seconds is not a very reasonable concept to me.

[OUTrumpet]

Did Kelvin Sampson take over our offensive coordinator position?

[Texas Golfer]

what I wouldn't mind seeing in these milk the clock modes is, on first or second down we fake a sweep, and have PT just sprint around the end. I don't think PT's a great runner but he has speed and it might slow down an over aggressive defense hell bent on stuffing Brown and AP.

just a thought.

I agree. And I don't recall one trick play all year. We don't use reverses to get over-persuing defenses back on their heels. KSU beat UT by running two consecutive option passes (the first and end around pass and the second a halfback pass). We run left. We run right. We run up the middle. Defenses, like OSU's, just lower their ears and come after us and we let them.

[Widescreen]

what I wouldn't mind seeing in these milk the clock modes is, on first or second down we fake a sweep, and have PT just sprint around the end. I don't think PT's a great runner but he has speed and it might slow down an over aggressive defense hell bent on stuffing Brown and AP.

just a thought.
I don't know. When PT runs, it's rare for something good to happen. He has decent straight-ahead speed but doesn't seem to have any moves or vision. And he goes down when a defender looks at him funny. Every time he tucks the ball, I'm pretty sure the play is over. I like PT but he's only effective when he's passing - who would've thought that going into the season? :D

[Blues1]

I don't know. When PT runs, it's rare for something good to happen. He has decent straight-ahead speed but doesn't seem to have any moves or vision. And he goes down when a defender looks at him funny. Every time he tucks the ball, I'm pretty sure the play is over. I like PT but he's only effective when he's passing - who would've thought that going into the season? :D

Yep - I would have thought PT would have had some several long runs after faking it to I back....Maybe yet to come...??
Still R'

[85Sooner]

I don't know. When PT runs, it's rare for something good to happen. He has decent straight-ahead speed but doesn't seem to have any moves or vision. And he goes down when a defender looks at him funny. Every time he tucks the ball, I'm pretty sure the play is over. I like PT but he's only effective when he's passing - who would've thought that going into the season? :D


I am pretty sure the coaches don't want him running free very much. they want him to hold onto the ball and not subject himself to too much punishment. If you look at it. He will be the healthiest QB stoops has ever had going into the CG.

[TrophyCollector]

That works both ways. just one first down would have taken at least 2 minutes off the clock. keeping the D on the field for a full qtr and then expecting them to be fresh and ready in the last seconds is not a very reasonable concept to me.

Yea, but the first part of my point was that sometimes we do gamble and open it up more (fake FG at Mizzou, fake punt at Bama, go for 4th and 1 at AM - play action on 4th and 1 at Mizzou this year). We won every one of those games and we won with what we did yesterday. I'm just saying that sometimes Stoops goes hell bent for the 1st down or TD and sometimes he runs the clock and punts. Either way, far more often than not, he usually wins.

Once again he picked the correct approach based on his team, the other team and the game situation. He's done it over and over and is one of the best in-game coaches in football.

[MikeInNorman]

I don't know. When PT runs, it's rare for something good to happen. He has decent straight-ahead speed but doesn't seem to have any moves or vision. And he goes down when a defender looks at him funny. Every time he tucks the ball, I'm pretty sure the play is over. I like PT but he's only effective when he's passing - who would've thought that going into the season? :D

Not only did I think it, I posted it:

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1483431#post1483431

[sanantoniosooner]

I really thought this was going to be about green eggs and ham.

[Widescreen]

Not only did I think it, I posted it:

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1483431#post1483431
Lucky guess. ;)

[usmc-sooner]

I don't know. When PT runs, it's rare for something good to happen. He has decent straight-ahead speed but doesn't seem to have any moves or vision. And he goes down when a defender looks at him funny. Every time he tucks the ball, I'm pretty sure the play is over. I like PT but he's only effective when he's passing - who would've thought that going into the season? :D

Yeah you and me are on the same page that's why I say the fake sweep and naked boot leg something where he won't have to juke anyone just run real fast then fall down or slide if it doesn't work.

[85Sooner]

Yea, but the first part of my point was that sometimes we do gamble and open it up more (fake FG at Mizzou, fake punt at Bama, go for 4th and 1 at AM - play action on 4th and 1 at Mizzou this year). We won every one of those games and we won with what we did yesterday. I'm just saying that sometimes Stoops goes hell bent for the 1st down or TD and sometimes he runs the clock and punts. Either way, far more often than not, he usually wins.

Once again he picked the correct approach based on his team, the other team and the game situation. He's done it over and over and is one of the best in-game coaches in football.

I won't gripe about a win but I reserve the right to let it out if I have a coronary and it dosn't work. Heh

[SoFla Sooner]

I really thought this was going to be about green eggs and ham.


Me too, and I don't mind telling you, I was disappointed when I found out what it was REALLY about.:rolleyes:

[OUswagger]

I'm so glad Stoops is our coach, he makes the right call. Even if i think it is'nt. But whatever he says is always magic. I'd not try to correct him after what he's done for us. I trust him over any pro or college coach to make the right call. Announcers have said before"I stand corrected he makes the right call" or "I'd hate to play poker with that guy." He's got stones and not afraid to use'm. Whatever Stoops says, do it! In Bob Almighty We Trust!!!

[Pepper]

Yes the play calling in the 4th quarter was equal to giving up on offense. Since when did passing become more risky than letting OSU throw a pass in to the end zone on the final play? OSU was selliing out to stop the run on 1st and 2nd down. That is when we should have gone with play action. Someone would have been wide open. We could have milked the clock and pinned them back on their side of the field. OU won but not by the best strategy.

[Pepper]

I don't know. When PT runs, it's rare for something good to happen. He has decent straight-ahead speed but doesn't seem to have any moves or vision. And he goes down when a defender looks at him funny. Every time he tucks the ball, I'm pretty sure the play is over. I like PT but he's only effective when he's passing - who would've thought that going into the season? :D

I agree but wasn't that an illegal leg whip that brought him down in the 4th quarter?

[bri]

Threads like this kill me. You people are all bitching about us being "too conservative" late in close games. Everyone wants us to throw the ball in that situation, but I ASSURE you that if we had opened it up more in the 4th quarter and it backfired on us (incompletions stop the clock, aggy takes advantage of the extra time and timeouts they DON'T have to spend while we have the ball, Paul makes a bad read or a pass bounces off a reciever's hands and into the waiting arms of aggy, big hit from the blindside that results in a sack and fumble), every single person who is bemoaning our "conservative" play would be screaming to the heavens that Stoops and Wilson should be pilloried for being so stupid as to throw the ball late, when running it would kill clock and make aggy burn their timeouts...

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i was just over on the chicago bears board and they are griping about being too aggressive (why the home run balls with that much time on the clock).

[Pepper]

Threads like this kill me. You people are all bitching about us being "too conservative" late in close games. Everyone wants us to throw the ball in that situation, but I ASSURE you that if we had opened it up more in the 4th quarter and it backfired on us (incompletions stop the clock, aggy takes advantage of the extra time and timeouts they DON'T have to spend while we have the ball, Paul makes a bad read or a pass bounces off a reciever's hands and into the waiting arms of aggy, big hit from the blindside that results in a sack and fumble), every single person who is bemoaning our "conservative" play would be screaming to the heavens that Stoops and Wilson should be pilloried for being so stupid as to throw the ball late, when running it would kill clock and make aggy burn their timeouts...

Let's say the probability of pass completion is 50%
Then the probability of 1 pass completion with 3 attempts is 87.5%! Which, you can then use to make a 1st down and run the clock down for at least 4 more downs. Plus get field position, not giving OSU the ball at the 50 yard line!
Now tell me what is the probability of winning while sitting back and letting OSU throw a pass in to the end zone from the 25 yard line. Oregon did it. OSU didn't but came close. I'd say maybe 50%.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Let's say the probability of pass completion is 50%
Then the probability of 1 pass completion with 3 attempts is 87.5%! Which, you can then use to make a 1st down and run the clock down for at least 4 more downs. Plus get field position, not giving OSU the ball at the 50 yard line!
Now tell me what is the probability of winning while sitting back and letting OSU throw a pass in to the end zone from the 25 yard line. Oregon did it. OSU didn't but came close. I'd say maybe 50%.

wow, so you'd give them 80 extra seconds to maybe throw a 1st down? they would have been able to run it in from the 25 yard line...

[bri]

Let's say the probability of pass completion is 50%
Then the probability of 1 pass completion with 3 attempts is 87.5%! Which, you can then use to make a 1st down and run the clock down for at least 4 more downs. Plus get field position, not giving OSU the ball at the 50 yard line!
Now tell me what is the probability of winning while sitting back and letting OSU throw a pass in to the end zone from the 25 yard line. Oregon did it. OSU didn't but came close. I'd say maybe 50%.

Statistically speaking, every time you throw the ball, you only have a 33% chance of success. As the old adage goes, "There's three things that can happen when you throw, and two of them are bad." And on top of that, there's the aforementioned voluntary stopping of the clock on the two incompletions you're more than willing to give up. Oh, yeah, and the timeouts you're letting your opponent save for their drive.

[Pepper]

wow, so you'd give them 80 extra seconds to maybe throw a 1st down? they would have been able to run it in from the 25 yard line...

Duh you still get more downs to run down the clock if you get a first down!

[Pepper]

I was unaware that PT only completed 33% of his passes.
Bottom line, we had zero passes (I stand corrected - 1) in the 4th quarter and gained 2 yards and only ran 5 and 1/2 minutes of the clock! Plus gave OSU the ball each time at their 40, 45, and 37 yard line. That is bad playcalling. If you still think that running the ball was best to run down the clock you are an idiot.

[bri]

Oh good, you're one of THOSE people. That makes this all the more fun.

I did not say that Paul only completes 33% of his passes. I was correcting your woefully inaccurate statistical figure. In the vacuum of pure numbers, every time you throw the ball, there are three outcomes. Two are bad, one is good. Ergo, 33% (1 in 3).

And I guess I'm an idiot then, because I still believe that running the ball is the best way to manage that late-game situation. And I guess almost EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is actually paid to coach football professionally is an idiot too, whereas you're some sort of super-smrt football savant who's just waiting for his one big chance to be the most bestest coach ever.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I was unaware that PT only completed 33% of his passes.
Bottom line, we had zero passes in the 4th quarter and gained 2 yards and only ran 5 and 1/2 minutes of the clock! Plus gave OSU the ball each time at their 40, 45, and 37 yard line. That is bad playcalling. If you still think that running the ball was best to run down the clock you are an idiot.

uh, running the ball IS the best way to run down the clock because there is only 1 way that you can stop it from moving - running out of bounds. josh heupel had trouble completing passes against 7 men zones (the umbrella zone of kids nightmares). throwing the ball within the context of our current offense was not the right call, running it was.

lets think about this logically - you've been carving them up with the run all game long. they then stop you. hmm, that was weird. we missed some blocks we'd been making so we'll get them next time.

2nd series - hmm, 6 minutes left in the game. we should be able to run on them and get this clock milked. you are pushed back on 1st down. so you try the pass to the fullback which has been so successful but he falls down. thompson barely gets back to the LOS leaving you with 3rd and 13 on your 17 ahead by 6. you can't risk a pick six so you decide to do a safe QB keeper hoping someone can make a block.

3rd series - your D just rose to the occasion stuffing them for a 7 yard loss. 3 minutes to go and they have 2 TOs. YOU HAVE TO RUN THE BALL TO GET RID OF THEIR TOs. you do it and trust your D which once again comes through.

the sequence tells you the story. the first time, its a fluke. the second time you try to make an adjustment but the execution isn't there. the third time you are bound by your circumstances.

[SoonerDood]

were we really that conservative? It's not like we were throwing the ball all over the place and then just went Michigan State. Paul was 7-10 thru 3 quarters, so "conservative" was the offense of the day. We killed them all day with the run, and stuck to that on the 1st drive of the 4th quarter. 3rd and 7, probably could've passed, but AOC and Brown (he needs a nickname) had busted some long runs on passing downs earlier. 3rd down was the only play call I had a problem with.
2nd drive- we actually called 2 pass plays! Zaslaw fell down on the 1st one, and Paul had to run for it. 3rd down, and Kelly drops a pass right at the marker.
3rd drive- time running short, force Aggy to use their timeouts. The only bad part of this drive was losing 3 yards. Making Aggy stop the clock was the correct way to play this one.

[jwlynn64]

On our second to last possesion, PT hit Kelly right in the gut on third down and Kelly dropped it. That would have been a first down and probably knocked the wind out of the Aggies. Selective memory to say that we didn't try a pass at all in the 4th.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ergo, 33% (1 in 3).

i don't think he's ever seen krull dude

[Pepper]

Oh good, you're one of THOSE people. That makes this all the more fun.

I did not say that Paul only completes 33% of his passes. I was correcting your woefully inaccurate statistical figure. In the vacuum of pure numbers, every time you throw the ball, there are three outcomes. Two are bad, one is good. Ergo, 33% (1 in 3).

And I guess I'm an idiot then, because I still believe that running the ball is the best way to manage that late-game situation. And I guess almost EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is actually paid to coach football professionally is an idiot too, whereas you're some sort of super-smrt football savant who's just waiting for his one big chance to be the most bestest coach ever.

OK, maybe the last possession, running the ball was not a bad call. But, why did we adopt this strategy so early in the game? The game would not have been close at all if OU had picked up 1 first down in the 4th quarter. Take what the defense gives you. And the probability of completing a pass is more than 50%.

[TopDawg]

were we really that conservative? It's not like we were throwing the ball all over the place and then just went Michigan State. Paul was 7-10 thru 3 quarters, so "conservative" was the offense of the day.

Which brings us back to the 4th post in this thread which was agreed on by the next 3 posters and should've put this thread to rest.

[TopDawg]

The probability of completing a pass depends on who is throwing it, who is catching it and who is defending it...just to name a few things.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

OK, maybe the last possession, running the ball was not a bad call. But, why did we adopt this strategy so early in the game? The game would not have been close at all if OU had picked up 1 first down in the 4th quarter. Take what the defense gives you. And the probability of completing a pass is more than 50%.

holy crap. it isn't just "completing a pass". you are talking about completing a pass for a 1st down against 2x as many defenders as you have guys in routes with very little time to throw. the best you can hope for is a quick slant to kelly. oh wait, we did that and he dropped it when he heard the 3 guys closing on him.

[bri]

And the probability of completing a pass is more than 50%.

Wow, I just explained the "one in three" thing to a brick wall and it nodded its understanding. At least I'm making headway somewhere.

And we didn't magically switch to trying to run the ball down their throats in the last fifteen minutes; we'd been doing it the ENTIRE GAME. But seams that were there weren't there any more. I'll admit, I would have liked to see us try to run it outside more, maybe even throw in some option, but there's risk in that; running to the perimiter gives the defense a chance to push you out of bounds, stopping the clock. And as all of us who remember the heyday of the Wishbone can attest, option = fumbles waiting to happen. :D

[Pepper]

Probability of PT throwing an INT is 2.5% based on his season stats, not 33% as you claim.
But sure. Whatever you say. Gaining 2 yards in a quarter and only possessing the ball for 5 1/2 minutes is great strategy. After all we were going up against the vaunted OSU defense. Probably the best in the country.

[TopDawg]

What's the probability of PT completing a pass in the 4th quarter on the road against OSU...based on his season stats?

[Pepper]

What's the probability of PT completing a pass in the 4th quarter on the road against OSU...based on his season stats?
7/11 = 63 %

[TopDawg]

He was 7/11 in the 4th quarter on the road against OSU? Then what's all the complaining about?

[Pepper]

I'm not complaining, I think you have convinced me. We must run the ball to run down the clock, just as we did in the 4th quarter when we ran 5 1/2 minutes off the clock. Field position doesn't matter. Passing is too hard for us. If there's an 11 man front, run straight up the middle.

[bri]

Tell me, Pepper...is petulance as personally rewarding as you make it seem?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm not complaining, I think you have convinced me. We must run the ball to run down the clock, just as we did in the 4th quarter when we ran 5 1/2 minutes off the clock. Field position doesn't matter. Passing is too hard for us. If there's an 11 man front, run straight up the middle.

its like trying to talk to mike leach..er..uh..a brick wall

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

:les: WHY WEREN'T WE MORE AGGRESSIVE AGAINST FSU IN THE ORANGE BOWL?

[jacru]

The Sooners put it on their defense and reined in their offense.

OU attempted but one pass in the fourth quarter.

"We got conservative," Stoops confessed.

-excerpt from The Daily Oklahoman clicky (http://newsok.com/article/2977263)

[Pepper]

Every time I flip a coin, there are 3 possibilities. 1) it lands heads. 2) it lands tails. 3) it lands on its side. Ergo a 1 in 3 (33%) chance it will land on its side.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Every time I flip a coin, there are 3 possibilities. 1) it lands heads. 2) it lands tails. 3) it lands on its side. Ergo a 1 in 3 (33%) chance it will land on its side.

it could also float

[bri]

Every time I flip a coin, there are 3 possibilities. 1) it lands heads. 2) it lands tails. 3) it lands on its side. Ergo a 1 in 3 (33%) chance it will land on its side.

Every time you make a post, there are 3 possibilities:

1) You'll sound stupid
2) You'll sound retarded
3) You'll sound stupid AND retarded

Ergo, there's a 66% chance you'll sound stupid or retarded, but only a 33% chance that you'll sound stupid AND retarded.

[sanantoniosooner]

Am I to understand that green eggs and ham aren't discussed anywhere in this thread?

[Pepper]

Stupid:
OU should have gone with a mix of passes and run plays in the 4th quarter, keeping the defense off balance and not knowing what to expect. Actually trying to make a 1st down.

[Pepper]

Retarded:
OU should have passed the ball only in the 4th quarter.

[Pepper]

Stupid and Retarded:
OU should have run the ball all but 1 time in the 4th quarter, even though OSU was expecting it and defending it.

[sanantoniosooner]

That really didn't answer my question.

[TopDawg]

it could also float

Or disappear into thin air.

[TopDawg]

What I wanna know is why we were so conservative coming out of halftime. A simple handoff to Patrick and then he stupidly takes it 65 yards for a TD. If we would've passed the ball every down and completed 50% of the passes for first downs we could've run down a lot more of the clock and OSU wouldn't have even had time to run any plays on that final possession.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

4th qtr drive summary

O 1-10 O20 OKLAHOMA drive start at 13:33 (4th).
O 1-10 O20 Patrick, Allen rush for 2 yards to the OU22 (Nethon,Jeremy).
O 2-8 O22 Brown, Chris rush for 1 yard to the OU23 (Lawson-Kennedy).
O 3-7 O23 Brown, Chris rush for no gain to the OU23 (Sexton,Andre).
O 4-7 O23 Cohen, Michael punt 37 yards to the OSU40, out-of-bounds.
--------------- 3 plays, 3 yards, TOP 02:27 ---------------

Redden,Bruce kickoff 65 yards to the OU0, touchback.
O 1-10 O20 OKLAHOMA drive start at 06:41 (4th).
O 1-10 O20 Patrick, Allen rush for loss of 1 yard to the OU19
(Smith,Darnell;Fountain,Marque).
O 2-11 O19 Thompson, Paul rush for 1 yard to the OU20 (Odiari,Alex).
O 3-10 O20 Thompson, Paul pass incomplete to Kelly, Malcolm.
O 4-10 O20 Cohen, Michael punt 41 yards to the OSU39, Devereaux,Tommy return 7 yards to
the OSU46 (Clayton, Keenan).
--------------- 3 plays, 0 yards, TOP 02:12 ---------------

ooo, 2 passes one covered

O 1-10 O23 OKLAHOMA drive start at 02:55 (4th).
O 1-10 O23 Timeout Oklahoma, clock 02:29.
O 1-10 O23 Patrick, Allen rush for 1 yard to the OU24 (Nethon,Jeremy).
O 2-9 O24 Patrick, Allen rush for loss of 4 yards to the OU20 (Fountain,Marque).
O 3-13 O20 Timeout Oklahoma State, clock 01:43.
O 3-13 O20 Thompson, Paul rush for 1 yard to the OU21 (Chatham,Jeray;Van Zant,Martel).
O 4-12 O21 Timeout Oklahoma State, clock 01:38.
O 4-12 O21 Cohen, Michael punt 45 yards to the OSU34, Devereaux,Tommy return 3 yards to
the OSU37 (Wolfe, D.J.).
--------------- 3 plays, minus 2 yards, TOP 01:27 ---------------

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

for the game, OU had 47 rushes and 11 passes

for the last 3 drives OU had 7 runs and 2 passes (although one was covered and ended up being a QB keeper)

game -> 19% passes, 81% rushes
4th qtr -> 22% passes, 78% rushes

[Frozen Sooner]

Am I to understand that green eggs and ham aren't discussed anywhere in this thread?

I've always wondered how many cases of trichinosis can be attributed to that book.

"Look mummy! It's green ham like they say in the book!"

"Bobby, no! Don't eat th--"

SNARF!

Three hours later, mommy's paying for Bobby's stomach pumping.

[Texas Golfer]

4th qtr drive summary

O 1-10 O20 OKLAHOMA drive start at 13:33 (4th).
O 1-10 O20 Patrick, Allen rush for 2 yards to the OU22 (Nethon,Jeremy).
O 2-8 O22 Brown, Chris rush for 1 yard to the OU23 (Lawson-Kennedy).
O 3-7 O23 Brown, Chris rush for no gain to the OU23 (Sexton,Andre).
O 4-7 O23 Cohen, Michael punt 37 yards to the OSU40, out-of-bounds.
--------------- 3 plays, 3 yards, TOP 02:27 ---------------

Redden,Bruce kickoff 65 yards to the OU0, touchback.
O 1-10 O20 OKLAHOMA drive start at 06:41 (4th).
O 1-10 O20 Patrick, Allen rush for loss of 1 yard to the OU19
(Smith,Darnell;Fountain,Marque).
O 2-11 O19 Thompson, Paul rush for 1 yard to the OU20 (Odiari,Alex).
O 3-10 O20 Thompson, Paul pass incomplete to Kelly, Malcolm.
O 4-10 O20 Cohen, Michael punt 41 yards to the OSU39, Devereaux,Tommy return 7 yards to
the OSU46 (Clayton, Keenan).
--------------- 3 plays, 0 yards, TOP 02:12 ---------------

ooo, 2 passes one covered

O 1-10 O23 OKLAHOMA drive start at 02:55 (4th).
O 1-10 O23 Timeout Oklahoma, clock 02:29.
O 1-10 O23 Patrick, Allen rush for 1 yard to the OU24 (Nethon,Jeremy).
O 2-9 O24 Patrick, Allen rush for loss of 4 yards to the OU20 (Fountain,Marque).
O 3-13 O20 Timeout Oklahoma State, clock 01:43.
O 3-13 O20 Thompson, Paul rush for 1 yard to the OU21 (Chatham,Jeray;Van Zant,Martel).
O 4-12 O21 Timeout Oklahoma State, clock 01:38.
O 4-12 O21 Cohen, Michael punt 45 yards to the OSU34, Devereaux,Tommy return 3 yards to
the OSU37 (Wolfe, D.J.).
--------------- 3 plays, minus 2 yards, TOP 01:27 ---------------

Going three and out on three consecutive series and getting only a total of one yard in those three series against OSU gives me cause for concern against Nebraska on Saturday.

[trpltongue]

There's an aweful lot of stubborness and bitching in this thread.

"We should've run more"
"We should've passed more"

What we should have done is taken what the defense gave us. OSU brought more guys into the box in the 4th quarter on 1st and 2nd down, and dropped off into coverage on 3rd down. Our O-line was still blocking like they were for the first 3 quarters, but OSU was run-blitzing and simply had more guys near the ball than we were able to block.

I can understand running the ball 3 consecutive times on the last drive, but running the ball on the first drive of the 4th quarter on 3rd and 7 was a bit too conservative. If we're hell bent on running the ball there, we should have run a boot and let Thompson look for a receiver. If there's none open, tuck it and run.

No matter who your offensive line is, you usually can't run against a team that is stacking the box and run blitzing unless you get lucky.

[RedstickSooner]

I had posted my message BEFORE I saw your Hillary quote...NOW SHE is something to be worried about!!!

Yeah, wrong board and all, but you do realize that *both* parties agree with Hillary's quote, right?

Only people who don't are the Libertarians, and Anarchists. Otherwise, the only source of disagreement is in terms of what constitutes "the common good".

For Liberals, it's:

Performances of "The Vagina Monologues"
Trees
Empowerment classes for pregnant teen welfare recipients
Naked schlong "art" (and/or poop art)

For Conservatives it's:

Putting folks to death, mental retardation be damned
Dropping bombs on foreigners
Monster Truck rallys

Driving real fast in a circle, but using a bunch of fruity restrictors and regulations to ensure that nobody drives *too* fast, because, after all, isn't deliberately slowing your car down the best way to honor the origins of stock-car racing?

and,

Chuck Norris.

Frankly, I don't believe I trust either group with my tax dollars, but so long as I want to continue to drive on "free" roads, and have really kick-arse fly-overs at football games, I guess it's okay with me that they keep taking my duckets for the common good.

And, getting back to the coin flippage thing, here's a couple more options:

1) You flip it too hard, and it lodges into the ceiling tile.

2) Some jerk (probably a Poke fan) runs by and grabs it out of the air.

3) It disintegrates due to contact with a slaver weapon either while still in the air, or immediately upon landing (but prior to you having a chance to note which side was facing up)

4) It falls onto the floor, and slips into a crack between floorboards, thereby being lost forever (or until some 6 year old kid finds it while playing in the crawlspace of your house)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

There's an aweful lot of stubborness and bitching in this thread.

"We should've run more"
"We should've passed more"

What we should have done is taken what the defense gave us. OSU brought more guys into the box in the 4th quarter on 1st and 2nd down, and dropped off into coverage on 3rd down. Our O-line was still blocking like they were for the first 3 quarters, but OSU was run-blitzing and simply had more guys near the ball than we were able to block.

I can understand running the ball 3 consecutive times on the last drive, but running the ball on the first drive of the 4th quarter on 3rd and 7 was a bit too conservative. If we're hell bent on running the ball there, we should have run a boot and let Thompson look for a receiver. If there's none open, tuck it and run.

No matter who your offensive line is, you usually can't run against a team that is stacking the box and run blitzing unless you get lucky.

how do you run blitz with your front 4?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

if they were run blitzing, you'd expect linebackers/defensive backs to be responsible for the plays that lost yardage. whoops, fountain got them. the dbs only got the tackles on the sweeps...

[rhombic21]

The only issue that I had with the playcalling was on the final drive.

We ran the ball on first down and lost a couple yards. Then we tried to play action on second down and long, and then came back and ran it on third down.

I think it would have been better if we'd have play actioned on first down, and just told Paul to eat the ball and get what he could with his legs unless somebody was wide open. Then come back on second and third down and run the ball to try and kill the clock. I think the defense would have been a lot more likely to bite on the PA on first and 10 than on second and long.

As a TEAM, OU averaged over 5 yards a rush attempt. That's including a sack and a couple QB scrambles that didn't go for any yards by PT. Allen Patrick averaged 7.1 yards a carry. I don't think it was a matter of us being super conservative, until the final drive when we just want to chew clock and make them use timeouts. We ran the ball that much because it worked so well throughout the game.

And if your defense can't keep them from going 65 yards and scoring a TD in 1:30 with no timeouts, I'm not sure that you deserve to win.

[trpltongue]

I never said they were run blitzing with their front 4 :confused:

According to Soonersports statistics, in the 4th quarter, O-state's front 4 had 4 tackles. Linebackers and secondary had 5. It wasn't just bad execution on our part our great execution on their part. They were putting more players in the box to make plays.

Everyone in the state knew that we were going to run the ball on 1st and second down, possibly on 3rd down. In the first half, even though we ran the ball well and didn't pass much, the potential to pass was there. By the 4th quarter no one expected us to pass on anything outside of 3rd down. The pass to Zaslaw is more of a running play than a pass so I'm not counting that.

The point is that even Bob Stoops admitted they got conservative and it almost bit him in the ***. And it's not the first time! Wilson has said after a couple of the games this year that we went into clock management conservative mode. It's okay to do that when you're beating Baylor by 30 points, but it's different when O-state has been able to move the ball at will down the field.

O-state's second half possesions:

9-plays 80 yrds, TD
14-plays 80yrds, fumble at goal line
10-plays 60 yards, TD
3-plays minus 10 yrds, punt
11-plays 38 yrds, incomplete in the endzone

It's not like our D was dominating at all in the second half. Part of conservative offensive play calling is relying on the defense to stop the other team, which we weren't doing.

Those are the facts.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

the words "run blitz" mean that they were either sending more than just their front 4 on blitzes or they were dropping one of their down linemen into coverage and bringing someone else. that wasn't the case. they were ripping through our OL like madmen. why is up for debate in the other thread. for all we know, allen patrick may have been yelling "baah".

[trpltongue]

for all we know, allen patrick may have been yelling "baah".

Ha! You never know?

I thought I saw them bringing 5-6 on most first and second downs, but admitedly I didn't re-watch the game so my memory may be off a bit. Even if they weren't "run-blitzing" I noticed more defenders in the box in the 4th quarter than I did earlier in the game.

Do you happen to have a link to the other thread discussing the dismantling of our O-line?

Thanks

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

its in the conservative playcalling thread

[trpltongue]

Got it! Moving discussion to that thread.